Anyone Diabetic?

[Jim_Noir]

Look for some advise on fructose levels.
Last year I rehomed a rottie who is Diabetic, he was 39kg and his BG levels where sitting at around the 28 or higher marks. I have now got him weighing in a at 50kg (most of it muscle) and his BG level is noramly around the 8 mark. Once a monht he gets a shead load of blood taken and sent to Glasgow Uni Vet school to see all his levels. This months came back as good, bar his frusctose level which is sitting at 690! He is in full health and doesn't hypo or hyper anymore. His diet is very good. For breakfast he get porraige (made with water) with 3 tablespoons of peanut butter. Dinner he gets 500g of pasta, some kible, some veg and lentils. His snacks during the day are raw carrots (I may stop these as they will be high in fructose) apples and protien shake when he's been for long runs and walks. I he is on 36mg of insulin twice a day. I am at a loss of how this one level is high, the only thing i can think of is that his skin where he gets injected is becoming too tough to break the insulin down.

Sooo, any one on here had to control level 2 diabetes and if so how did you get the fructose down?

 

[punkypossum]

Can't help I'm afraid, but puddleglum's cat was diagnosed with diabetes this week (we've just had lessons on how to inject him), so this might be interesting!

 

[very-near]

It will be the apples which are setting him off. Fruit sugars make me spike as well. I'm not on insulin though (as yet thankfully)

 

[Jonathan M]

Do you mean Fructosamine levels, as opposed to fructose levels? Fructosamine can be used as a long term measure of control, although in humans it was replaced many years ago by glycosolated Heamoglobin A1c measurement.

Fructosamine isn't measurirng fructose, so don't be quick to remove sources of fruit sugars, as they will not be to blame for a rise in a fructosamine level, as fructosamine is glycosolated albumin, so the effect is from raised BG levels in general. Carrots have some carbohydrate, but not a great amount.

How do you measure your dogs BG levels to the point that you know they are around 8?

You may be right to consider injection sites, as repeated insulin injections in the same area causes lipodystrophy, which in turn means the insulin will not absorb as well as it should. Speak to your vet and see if they can advice a change in injection sites.

 

[Jim_Noir]

Hi, yes I mean fructosamine levals.

I have a device, like the ones humans have but this one is for K9s (prob just the same but costs 5 times te price), that will tell the exact BG level. So he gets's this done minimum 3 times per day (also gets a 24hr spike test done once a month with the device and blood sent to Glasgow Uni Vet school). He knows the drill, 0730 am blood test breakfast injection and same at 1930. He knows the command "jaggy" where he knows either stand for his injection or sit and give a paw for his blood test.

Yes, the vet also thinks change the injection spot... so just doing it now on random places. The Vet, and vet school are puzzled with him. He's a young male Rottie, it's almost unheard of for his sex age and breed to get it. Also he's putting muscle now and looking at him wouldn't know he is diabetic (I put this down to him having the two girls to run around with and keeping him fit). Being a rescue dog however we have no idea what his diet was like before we took him, so don't know if it's been diet as from what we gather from people in the know about his breed he comes from good stock and the only other young male rottie in the uk to be diabetic is an import from the USA. As said he's a picture of health, even though the vet school doubt he'll live past 6 (he's 4 now, but I think this is bullshine if he's looked after then he can have a long life like a human with it) only issue is his left eye has the signs of cataracts and from what the vet etc say all diabetic dogs go blind... The other diabetic rottie is 10 and has been blind since he was 8!

 

[Jonathan M]

Hi, yes I mean fructosamine levals.

I have a device, like the ones humans have but this one is for K9s (prob just the same but costs 5 times te price), that will tell the exact BG level. So he gets's this done minimum 3 times per day (also gets a 24hr spike test done once a month with the device and blood sent to Glasgow Uni Vet school). He knows the drill, 0730 am blood test breakfast injection and same at 1930. He knows the command "jaggy" where he knows either stand for his injection or sit and give a paw for his blood test.

Yes, the vet also thinks change the injection spot... so just doing it now on random places. The Vet, and vet school are puzzled with him. He's a young male Rottie, it's almost unheard of for his sex age and breed to get it. Also he's putting muscle now and looking at him wouldn't know he is diabetic (I put this down to him having the two girls to run around with and keeping him fit). Being a rescue dog however we have no idea what his diet was like before we took him, so don't know if it's been diet as from what we gather from people in the know about his breed he comes from good stock and the only other young male rottie in the uk to be diabetic is an import from the USA. As said he's a picture of health, even though the vet school doubt he'll live past 6 (he's 4 now, but I think this is bullshine if he's looked after then he can have a long life like a human with it) only issue is his left eye has the signs of cataracts and from what the vet etc say all diabetic dogs go blind... The other diabetic rottie is 10 and has been blind since he was 8!

Braver man than me, we've got a staffie and I'd think twice about doing a BG test on her.

Insulin needs to be in sub-cutaneous fat, so ensure that wherever it goes you are able to "pinch an inch", injections into muscle are more likely to cause hypoglycaemia. On a previous staffie with diabetes we used to use the scruff of her neck to inject, and site issues were not much of a problem with her.

Re life expectancy & diabetes, don't forget the research in humans shows an average life expectancy 10 years less than the none diabetic population, so while the vet may seem a bit pessimistic diabetes (or rather the associated long term complications) can shorten life expectancy, so I'm unsure how this translates into the canine world.

Re the fructosamine levels, this peak indicates higher blood glucose levels in the 4-6 week period before the blood was taken.

 

[Jim_Noir]

He's a big gentle boy with getting his BG and injections, I'd dread it if it was my greyhound as she would freak out at getting this done to her.

He took his first Hypo with us yesterday (was my fault so feel guilty as). Took them out a 8 mile walk before breakfast, half a mile from home and I can see he is slowing down and not chasing the girls. Called him over, got him to sit and saw his body shake and eye roll. so tub of hypostop shoved down his throat. 5 mins later he was up and wanting to run. Walked him slowly home, his BG was 2.4!! So 500g of pasta. 250g of kibble and a fruit loaf covred in peanut butter later and he was right as rain... think he loved the fact he got to eat that much (I'm sure now he'll act up to get more food). So lesson there is no more exercise before breakfast for him.

 

[Jonathan M]

He's a big gentle boy with getting his BG and injections, I'd dread it if it was my greyhound as she would freak out at getting this done to her.

He took his first Hypo with us yesterday (was my fault so feel guilty as). Took them out a 8 mile walk before breakfast, half a mile from home and I can see he is slowing down and not chasing the girls. Called him over, got him to sit and saw his body shake and eye roll. so tub of hypostop shoved down his throat. 5 mins later he was up and wanting to run. Walked him slowly home, his BG was 2.4!! So 500g of pasta. 250g of kibble and a fruit loaf covred in peanut butter later and he was right as rain... think he loved the fact he got to eat that much (I'm sure now he'll act up to get more food). So lesson there is no more exercise before breakfast for him.

Kids will often do this, plus there is an anxiety around hypo that means people when they are hypowilloften want to eat more as a reassurance - won't really make any difference in how quickly bloodglucose recovers, how quick the BG recovers is limited really by how fast the glucose can be absorbed from the gut - usually 10-15 minutes.

 

[very-near]

Hi, yes I mean fructosamine levals.

I have a device, like the ones humans have but this one is for K9s (prob just the same but costs 5 times te price), that will tell the exact BG level. So he gets's this done minimum 3 times per day (also gets a 24hr spike test done once a month with the device and blood sent to Glasgow Uni Vet school). He knows the drill, 0730 am blood test breakfast injection and same at 1930. He knows the command "jaggy" where he knows either stand for his injection or sit and give a paw for his blood test.

Yes, the vet also thinks change the injection spot... so just doing it now on random places. The Vet, and vet school are puzzled with him. He's a young male Rottie, it's almost unheard of for his sex age and breed to get it. Also he's putting muscle now and looking at him wouldn't know he is diabetic (I put this down to him having the two girls to run around with and keeping him fit). Being a rescue dog however we have no idea what his diet was like before we took him, so don't know if it's been diet as from what we gather from people in the know about his breed he comes from good stock and the only other young male rottie in the uk to be diabetic is an import from the USA. As said he's a picture of health, even though the vet school doubt he'll live past 6 (he's 4 now, but I think this is bullshine if he's looked after then he can have a long life like a human with it) only issue is his left eye has the signs of cataracts and from what the vet etc say all diabetic dogs go blind... The other diabetic rottie is 10 and has been blind since he was 8!

In addition to other causes, Type 1 can be caused by local trauma to the pancreas.

 

[Jim_Noir]

Odly, when he rehomed him our vet and the vet schol thought he could have a tumor in the pancreas... needless to say he didn't