advice on a custom build

[jags]

thinking of going for a custom touring bike ,i was looking at the Paul Villiers bikes look beautiful really well built, but i would rather have him build me a one off jobby , a bike that can climb well fast and light but take loaded panniers , i ride a thorn sherpa although its a great bike its just not the bike for me (sorry sherpa)

so lads what would be in your opinion be the best tubing i should go for
oh yeah if i can manage to scrape the money together for this build i will have a thorn sherpa frame for sale 52 cm perfect condition also a hand built set of wheels and tires .(sunrhyno on xt hubs m770 36 spoke 9 speed marathon plus tires/tubes..

 

[MacB]

The advice is always the same, narrow down your requirements as much as possible, frame material, tyre clearances, handlebars, brake type, frame fittings, etc. Then see if anything off the peg fits the bill, then test every last one of them. If nothing jumps out at you then visit a framebuilder with all your specs, be prepared to have your mind changed, and get something designed and built.

My choice would be titanium but that's just me, you'll find plenty of support for any choice you make, within reason.

 

[jags]

The advice is always the same, narrow down your requirements as much as possible, frame material, tyre clearances, handlebars, brake type, frame fittings, etc. Then see if anything off the peg fits the bill, then test every last one of them. If nothing jumps out at you then visit a framebuilder with all your specs, be prepared to have your mind changed, and get something designed and built.

My choice would be titanium but that's just me, you'll find plenty of support for any choice you make, within reason.

thanks macb yeah i would love to have the bucks to go ti .
im comfortable enough on the thorn its a great fit, but it's just to heavy for me .so if i can get it built near enough to the thorn spec i would be happy , but heres the problem for it to be faster the angles would need to be tighter

so am i gonna have heel issues .i will be going steel but what steel i have no idea 725 853 825 normal or oversized tubes basically i want a toured thats as lively as a good road bike, now i know everyone is saying well go and buy a road bike (i have a couple thanks) but why should a toured be a work horse , all my touring is done on tarmac roads usually with two rear panniers and a barbag total weight arounf 28lbs i think.

 

[MacB]

In that case I'd look at someone like Dave Yates and 631 steel, certainly reading some postings from him on YACF he feels that 853 is too harsh a ride for most people. Stainless is an option but you're again looking at a harsher ride and also getting to Ti costs anyway. Something that is feasible though is working with alternative forks and a versatile frame. For example:-

My custom Ti, plain gauge so not as expensive as you may think, around £1100 for frame and headset, is designed as a mishmash of road/tour/cross. I opted for disc brakes and frame has rack and guard mounts plus clearances for up to a 700x44 tyre or 700x42 with guards. I have some Winwood Muddy Carbon Cross forks, disc brake only, on the front. I also have a spare set of forks, Salsa La Cruz steel disc only, which have the same dimensions as the Winwoods but can take lowriders etc. As it's a disc brake setup I can also run 26" wheels in there with clearance for at least(coz that's the size I've tried) a 2" tyre. Handling, trail and BB clearance are fine, they come out almost the same as if I was running the bike with 700x23 tyres.

I have the chainstays at 435mm and no heel issues with my size 10 feet and Ortlieb panniers. The bikes is in stripped down mode at present so only clip on guards when needed, 700x32 tyres and no rack. Putting those bits back on is a matter of minutes and swapping the forks is easy as well, I have a Hope headset so the crown race is a piece of cake to switch, but you could just buy a spare crown race. Geometry is 72.5 ST and HT and I find this gives me the sort of mid range ride qualities I was looking for.

Obviously that's just my take on it, but it does sound as if it mirrors a lot of the features you're thinking of.

 

[jags]

thanksMacB great advice yes i want the bike to also be a mishmash ,not to sure on dick breaks though i will swap everything over from my thorn to the new bike ,all shimano xt m770 as new.i have a great set of expensive paul canti brakes so they would be going on new bike.

will that tubing make for a much lighter frame than my thorn sherpa, yates 631.

thanks again much appreciated.

 

[Tim Bennet.]

You do need to be really careful with this. Make sure the information you get is 100% reliable so you end up with exactly what you want. Any custom bike will be expensive and it's important to end up with something that is an improvement over either what you have or what you could have bought 'off the peg'.

For instance 853 and 631 have EXACTLY the same modulus of elasticity, so which steel will have no bearing on how it 'feels'. However wall thickness and more importantly tube diameter will have a radical influence, so caveat emptor.

Unless you are of some really weird body shape, just think why you need a custom build. Almost every combination of frame tube / tubing / braze-ons, etc are out there. With the right stem, bars etc, it would be bizarre if there isn't something that would be the perfect fit. But to get anything to fit, you need to go to a shop that has a proven track record of getting bikes to fit. It can't be done by a quick test ride around the car park.

If I were you I would cost two options and I suggest doing so at Paul Hewitts as I believe his fitting service is the most important part in the purchase of any long distance bike. Cost up and check the spec of his 725 tubed Cheviot SE model and also a bike based on the Van Nick Amazon. With the SE, you have unlimited choice of braze-ons and colour but less so with the Titanium option.

Only if you find it impossible to get what you want from the semi-custom route would I even consider going the full custom route.

 

[MacB]

The semi custom route is good advice and was what I was getting at with the first bit re testing OTP options. By the way my frame geometry isn't exactly a million miles away from a Spesh roubaix, a bike I'd tried and liked.

Also was in Halfords today and saw the Boardman CX Comp in the flesh, SRAM Apex gearing and Avid BB7 road disc brakes, mounts for mudguards etc...very nice looking bike. Sadly has the usual low front end, so I'd end up with a huge stack of spacers or a steep stem, the lack of this was one of the big attractions of the Roubaix.

 

[jags]

thanks lads well every bike i ever bought was off the peg so maybe i should be looking at that option .

remember what i'm after is a more responsive lighter bike than my thorn sherpa.

 

[MacB]

thanksMacB great advice yes i want the bike to also be a mishmash ,not to sure on dick breaks though i will swap everything over from my thorn to the new bike ,all shimano xt m770 as new.i have a great set of expensive paul canti brakes so they would be going on new bike.

will that tubing make for a much lighter frame than my thorn sherpa, yates 631.

thanks again much appreciated.

As I said it was only my take on it and disc brakes are something that I designed in deliberately, the fact that it means I can also run a 26" wheelset came as an unexpected surprise. But if you're going for steel and maybe just a couple of modifications to OTP spec then I'd sling on a rear disc brake tab anyway. You never know it might come in handy and you don't have to use it.

Frameweight on steel I don't know, but I would have thought so as the Thorn Sherpa is a pretty robust beastie. I tend to sort of use the web to formulate a gameplan and to learn enough to be able to have a proper discussion with a framebuilder, I also find it interesting.

I have some bits en route from Pauls at the moment, they do some nice, and very useful, bits.

 

[Crankarm]

thinking of going for a custom touring bike ,i was looking at the Paul Villiers bikes look beautiful really well built, but i would rather have him build me a one off jobby , a bike that can climb well fast and light but take loaded panniers , i ride a thorn sherpa although its a great bike its just not the bike for me (sorry sherpa)

so lads what would be in your opinion be the best tubing i should go for
oh yeah if i can manage to scrape the money together for this build i will have a thorn sherpa frame for sale 52 cm perfect condition also a hand built set of wheels and tires .(sunrhyno on xt hubs m770 36 spoke 9 speed marathon plus tires/tubes..

You want a bike that can climb really quickly but then you are going to stick heavy panniers on it?

Have you considered a Roberts? Very nice frames indeed.

Also the Condor Fratello suitable for touring and commuting is worth considering

 

[Crankarm]

As I said it was only my take on it and disc brakes are something that I designed in deliberately, the fact that it means I can also run a 26" wheelset came as an unexpected surprise. But if you're going for steel and maybe just a couple of modifications to OTP spec then I'd sling on a rear disc brake tab anyway. You never know it might come in handy and you don't have to use it.

Frameweight on steel I don't know, but I would have thought so as the Thorn Sherpa is a pretty robust beastie. I tend to sort of use the web to formulate a gameplan and to learn enough to be able to have a proper discussion with a framebuilder, I also find it interesting.

I have some bits en route from Pauls at the moment, they do some nice, and very useful, bits.

Blimey McB I thought you had some old Appollo jallopy. Your bike's spec is verging on bike porn. Pics???


But does it have a hub gear eg Alfine 11 or a Rohloff? Derailieur gears are so last year.

There are a few bikes on the market now with similar spec disc brakes and hub gears although probably not Ti frames as your bike, On-One Pompetamine, Genesis, Milk RDA. Bike manufacturers albeit the small ones are starting to make bikes that are a real improvement and really low maintenance in the drive train department.

 

[willem]

Of course a nice custom frame will save you some weight (500 grams?) and should be better tuned to your size and weight. However, for a loaded tourer you will get much larger weight savings, and thus faster climbing, if you spend that budget on 5 kg lighter gear, plus faster and lighter tyres like the 26x1.75 Pasela or even nicer the new 26x1.75 Compass version of that Pasela. That will really transform your ride. If you have done that, and only then, does it make sense to look for a better frame.

 

[jags]

well i had my eye on a paul villiers build but his off the peg bikes are probably just as good as a custom does that make sense .
i seen a lovely roberts bike at a feelclub meet, yeah lovely bike but i think it had 599 wheels i want to go 700c this this time around..

 

[Danny]

I bought my touring bike from Paul Hewitt. While it was an off-the-peg frame everything else was customisable - right down to the choice of bar tape.

The key thing for me is that Paul offers a legendary bike fitting service, and spent the best part of an hour measuring me up to get a perfect fit. At the end of the day I think this makes more difference to your ride than the relatively minor differences in frame materials or components.

 

[jags]

I bought my touring bike from Paul Hewitt. While it was an off-the-peg frame everything else was customisable - right down to the choice of bar tape.

The key thing for me is that Paul offers a legendary bike fitting service, and spent the best part of an hour measuring me up to get a perfect fit. At the end of the day I think this makes more difference to your ride than the relatively minor differences in frame materials or components.

Danny i live in ireland so a bike fit from mr hewitt is out for me ,besides every off the peg bike i ever bought was fine,
what i'm thinking now is to change the forks in the sherpa to carbon forks sjs cycles have carbob forks that will suit the sherpa frame, and i'm going for lighter wheels. does all this make sense.

the way i'm thinking these changes will only improve the bike lighter fork lighter wheels has to make for a more responsive bike .am i right or am i talking rubbish