A couple of technique questions

[lulubel]

1. There's a particular section of trail that's causing me problems, and I think I know how I should be approaching it, but I wanted to see if anyone has a different suggestion.

This particular trail has a lot of loose rock in various sizes that you can't avoid, so on the climbs, I stay in a lowish gear and try to keep a very smooth pedalling action. This works most of the time, and even when I lose grip for a moment, as long as I keep the pedals turning smoothly, I usually get it back before I come to a stop.

The trail also has sections of solid rock that are like small steps (2 or 3 together). I love riding down over them, and riding up over them is OK as long as I approach with a bit of speed, lift the front wheel to get it started, then get out of the saddle (if necessary) to power the back wheel over the top. This needs a higher gear than the loose rock.

The problem I'm having is when you have loose rock, solid rock, loose rock, with nothing "easy" in between. I've tried using a low gear, and approaching the solid part slower than I normally would, and I can get the bike up and over it - just - but the force I need to use on the pedals means the back wheel just spins as soon as it contacts the loose rock at the top, I come to a stop, and have to push the bike for a few metres until I can get enough grip to start moving again.

I've tried approaching faster, in a higher gear, and I just lose control on the loose rock before the "steps", with a similarly frustrating result.

I think I need to learn how to tackle the whole section in a fairly low gear, and keep control. Is that my best option?

2. I know you're supposed to have light hands, and I've been concentrating on my hands a lot, and I think I'm doing quite well with it. But are there times when you should be deliberately putting weight on the bars?

There are a few sections on my rides where you come to a hairpin on a descent, where the surface is fairly smooth, but gravelly. There's no bank on the outside edge of the turn - the ground just drops away, and if you get it wrong, there's a drop of a few hundred feet waiting for you. I've taken to leaning quite heavily on the bars when I'm approaching these bends because it seems to make the front tyre dig in better, so I can brake harder without losing the front wheel. (ie I can approach faster, while still being able to slow right down to ride nervously round them.)

Is that the best way to tackle it?

 

[Cubist]

The first one is tricky. Keeping the balance between progress, traction and control is key, and you'll need the reactions of a cat. As you learn the bike you'll be far more adept at subtle weight shifting to keep centre of gravity where it needs to be... Rearwards but not to far to float steps rather than pop them, but through the bb yo keep traction on the loose. I like my spds on steps as you can toe tap to keep your leading foot in that sweetspot to lift the front without having to haul on the bars. Practise,and as your confidence and balance grow so will the skilz.

You are instinctively weighting the bike for grip. That's why high bars feel good on the downs, but you need weight in a compressed fork for berms and loose corners, so wide flat bars help here.

 

[Boon 51]

Cant add much more to the above post really, but try and find a bit of track near to your home and practise and practise it might sound boring but it will help..

 

[02GF74]

the first one sounds like quite a fun challenge - you need to pick a line through solid ground to reduce wheel slip - momemtum will take you over steps so you need to speed up before them. once the front wheel is over and the rear meets the step, you shift your weight forwards to "pull" the bike over plus removing weight off rear wheel makes it easier to lift over the step.

taking corners at speed is best done if you can stick out the inside leg to keep the bike up; easier said than done. also the outer leg is straight so that not only you have more celarance on the inside but also press down on the tyres for more grip.

and to save me typing about weighting the outside fo the bike, stolen from another web site:

Lean the Bike, Not Your Body
While the road technique of leaning with the bike while seated is best for tame, high-speed corners, the majority of the turns you'll encounter on the trail can be best dealt with by keeping the body relatively upright and pushing the bike down to the ground. Put your weight on the outside pedal and the inside of the handlebars, and tilt the bike right down, up to 60 degrees or so, depending on the turn. Keep your body low, with weight on the front wheel, and the inside pedal up and to the front. This style of leaning is can most easily deal with an sudden skid, and if things get hairy, you've got the bike between you and the ground.

 

[lulubel]

The first one is tricky. Keeping the balance between progress, traction and control is key, and you'll need the reactions of a cat. As you learn the bike you'll be far more adept at subtle weight shifting to keep centre of gravity where it needs to be... Rearwards but not to far to float steps rather than pop them, but through the bb yo keep traction on the loose. I like my spds on steps as you can toe tap to keep your leading foot in that sweetspot to lift the front without having to haul on the bars. Practise,and as your confidence and balance grow so will the skilz.

Cant add much more to the above post really, but try and find a bit of track near to your home and practise and practise it might sound boring but it will help..

Thanks, guys. Yes, I think practice and experimenting to find out what works best is key. My trouble is, I find it rather more nerve-wracking than boring. The old BH used to dump me on the ground regularly, and I think I was actually braver on it because I'd got used to falling off. The Cube makes most things feel so easy by comparison that it's now a bit of a shock when I find something difficult.

I must remember, though, that the first time I rode the particular trail I'm having problems with (which is a part-time river bed) I had to walk about a quarter of it. Now there are only 2 short sections of about 10 metres or so that I haven't conquered!

the first one sounds like quite a fun challenge - you need to pick a line through solid ground to reduce wheel slip - momemtum will take you over steps so you need to speed up before them. once the front wheel is over and the rear meets the step, you shift your weight forwards to "pull" the bike over plus removing weight off rear wheel makes it easier to lift over the step.

There isn't any solid ground. That's the main problem. It's loose rock piled on more loose rock. It's easy enough to ride down over, as long as you keep your hands very light, and don't go near the brakes, but getting up over it is a pig. The only way I've found to do it is to keep all your movements very smooth and try to gently guide the front wheel to where you want it to go.

taking corners at speed is best done if you can stick out the inside leg to keep the bike up; easier said than done. also the outer leg is straight so that not only you have more celarance on the inside but also press down on the tyres for more grip.

and to save me typing about weighting the outside fo the bike, stolen from another web site:

Lean the Bike, Not Your Body
While the road technique of leaning with the bike while seated is best for tame, high-speed corners, the majority of the turns you'll encounter on the trail can be best dealt with by keeping the body relatively upright and pushing the bike down to the ground. Put your weight on the outside pedal and the inside of the handlebars, and tilt the bike right down, up to 60 degrees or so, depending on the turn. Keep your body low, with weight on the front wheel, and the inside pedal up and to the front. This style of leaning is can most easily deal with an sudden skid, and if things get hairy, you've got the bike between you and the ground.

I'm not a fan of sticking a foot out - it feels very unnatural to me, and actually makes me feel less safe than I do with both feet on the pedals - but I've read Brian Lopes' and Lee McCormack's Mastering MTB Skills book (several times) and they seem to be of the opinion that you have to play around and do what works for you and the trails you ride on.

I'm already practicing leaning the bike and keeping my body upright, and I like how it feels when I get it right. When I get it wrong, it generally means an urgent straightening up, though, so I'm only trying to take safe corners at speed at the moment. To be honest, I doubt I'll ever be anything but cautious on corners where getting it wrong means you will probably die from the fall.

 

[carterusok]

good,try and find a bit of track near to your home and practise and practise it might sound boring but it will help

 

[02GF74]

There isn't any solid ground. That's the main problem. It's loose rock piled on more loose rock.

this may be a surface that it may not be possible to ride up - without riding it myself I cannot really comment.

you need to take a friend or two and see if they can make it, they need not necessarily be a more expereinced rider althiough it will be humbling if they aren't and can get up it, - but once you have seen somebody do it, then you know it is possible for you to do it too.

 

[lulubel]

this may be a surface that it may not be possible to ride up - without riding it myself I cannot really comment.

I'm convinced I can do it with more practice. I think it's probably a combination of better technique and stronger legs. At the moment, I'm having to put in a huge amount of effort to get up over the rocks. If I'm not having to push so hard on the pedals, I'll have more control, and have more chance of correcting it if the back wheel loses grip. (At least, that's my theory!)

 

[Motozulu]

I've been practising the 'inner knee out, outer leg straight, lean the bike' on the Cannock trails and it works really well - getting faster around the berms each time I go. Found it odd at first as having had road motorbikes for 30 years I was naturally trying to keep my body at the same angle as the bike going into the corners and it did feel dodgy.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

Just remember tho, not all trails and sections are do-able.


Sometimes on techy black runs, I have ride them more like a trials rider than mtb-er, I.e., more of slow paced balancing act.

 

[lulubel]

I've been practising the 'inner knee out, outer leg straight, lean the bike' on the Cannock trails and it works really well - getting faster around the berms each time I go. Found it odd at first as having had road motorbikes for 30 years I was naturally trying to keep my body at the same angle as the bike going into the corners and it did feel dodgy.

Yes, it's a very different feeling. I've always gone for the inner knee tucked in position for cornering on the road bike (not that I think I'm in any danger of my knee touching the road, but you never know - maybe one day), so just learning to stick my inner knee out is a bit of a learning curve.

Just remember tho, not all trails and sections are do-able.

Sometimes on techy black runs, I have ride them more like a trials rider than mtb-er, I.e., more of slow paced balancing act.

I'm sure this one is do-able. I'm not far away from being able to do it, and I've only been MTBing for a few months. Someone with lots of experience would probably hardly even notice it.

I think you're absolutely right about it being a slow paced balancing act, and that's something I need to work on because my balance is really bad for a cyclist. I can't even track stand! The only other way to do it would be to have the speed and courage/stupidity to just ride at it hard and hope to get lucky and not crash.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

On a ride with Globalti, we came across some wet slippy stairs, the type which are gravel beds with cut up railway sleepers as the step edge.

I never in a million years would have thought they were doable, Ben took a run at them on a hardtail mtb, seated and just rode up them.

I have attempted to repeat this feat many many times and usually end up doing an endo on the second or third step and embarrassing myself. However doing it my way, like a trials rider I can clear them very easily.

I've come to the conclusion that because Ben is (at a guess) at least 3 stones lighter than me, different physics laws come into play......I stuffed him on the rest of the techy mtb stuff tho......

 

[Black Sheep]

not sure I can help I'm afraid, I can (or used to, not been on the mountain bike for a few years) be able to get up similar to what you describe while playing in the grizedale forrest,

my technique involves hovering over the saddle, pushing forwards and down on the pedals which allows the front to come up, but by just moving my weight forwards I can control it.

gears wise, i'm 32 x16 iirc so I have no alternative than to just get on with it.