A couple of maintenance questions

[lulubel]

These probably seem quite simple to most people, but here goes ....

I have a road bike with a triple chainset and a 9-sp cassette.

1. I'm getting a bit of a "rattling" noise from the chain when I'm using the middle chain ring and the top end of the cassette. The chain isn't slipping, and it isn't rubbing on the cage. I keep it clean and lubricated. The rear derailleur hasn't been knocked, and I can't see any sign of the chain trying to move to another sprocket. It doesn't happen when I'm on the big ring, so I'm guessing the chain may have stretched a bit.

How can I find out if it's stretched and is now too long?

The chain is about 3000/4000 miles old. Is it likely that it needs replacing?

I know I'd need to buy a chain tool to make any adjustments/replace the chain. Once I've bought one (which I'm quite happy to do), is it a fairly simple process?

If I need to buy a new chain, how do I know what to buy?

If I replace the chain, do I need to replace anything else at the same time?

2. I'm getting a very slight creaking noise that sounds like it's coming from the headset when I turn the bike away from the wall to wheel it out of the garage. It happens when I turn the bars to the left and further than I would when I'm riding it. It's a very faint noise, and it always happens at exactly the same point, and only when I turn the bars to the left. Could it be a sign of a worn headset/lack of lubrication/nothing to worry about?

If the headset needs maintenance, is this something I can do myself with limited mechanical knowledge (see chain question above )?

3. I'd like to experiment with lowering the front end of my bike a bit. I have 3 spacers under the bars, and I know I can take the bars off, remove a spacer, and then put it back on top of the bars (which will give me a weird looking sticky up bit, but is better than cutting the top off and then deciding I want to go back to how I was!)

Is this simple? Which bit do I need to undo? Is it the allen key bolt right on the top?

How much difference will lowering the bars by about 1cm make to the feel of riding the bike?

I also have another question about shorts, but that's a product question, so I'll stick it in the relevant place!

Thanks

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Imho the best reference on how to spot/measure wear is this. Having done 3/4000 miles an update is probably due.

If you have a 9 speed you need a 9 speed chain. Both KMC and Sram are good.

Do you have the make/model of the headset?

1cm or 2cm of headset spacer could make a major difference to feel.

 

[Red Light]

These probably seem quite simple to most people, but here goes ....

I have a road bike with a triple chainset and a 9-sp cassette.

1. I'm getting a bit of a "rattling" noise from the chain when I'm using the middle chain ring and the top end of the cassette. The chain isn't slipping, and it isn't rubbing on the cage. I keep it clean and lubricated. The rear derailleur hasn't been knocked, and I can't see any sign of the chain trying to move to another sprocket. It doesn't happen when I'm on the big ring, so I'm guessing the chain may have stretched a bit.

I'd be surprised if its chain wear making the noise. Although you say it isn't rubbing the cage its quite common for a chain that doesn't rub on the cage in the stand to rub when you are riding it because the chain is under tension and the frame may flex slightly.

How can I find out if it's stretched and is now too long?

The chain is about 3000/4000 miles old. Is it likely that it needs replacing?

Put a 12" ruler along the top run and try to put a little pressure on the pedals to tension the chain. If it measures more than 12 & 1/16th inches between the rivets its probably time to change it. After 3-4,000 miles it could well be time depending on the riding conditions. If its badly worn be prepared to have to replace the cassette too. A new chain and a worn cassette will lead to the chain skipping and slipping. But give it a try first before spending the extra.

I know I'd need to buy a chain tool to make any adjustments/replace the chain. Once I've bought one (which I'm quite happy to do), is it a fairly simple process?

Get yourself a SRAM 9 speed chain with a PowerLink which means you can take it on and off without a chain tool. You will still need the chain tool to take the current chain off and to shorten the new chain (just measure it up against the old one)

2. I'm getting a very slight creaking noise that sounds like it's coming from the headset when I turn the bike away from the wall to wheel it out of the garage. It happens when I turn the bars to the left and further than I would when I'm riding it. It's a very faint noise, and it always happens at exactly the same point, and only when I turn the bars to the left. Could it be a sign of a worn headset/lack of lubrication/nothing to worry about?

If the headset needs maintenance, is this something I can do myself with limited mechanical knowledge (see chain question above )?

Are you sure the noise isn't the brake or gear cables rubbing against the frame as they are stretched by the bars turning? There is not much to a headset other than putting some more grease in it. Get yourself the Haynes Bicycle Manual which has good pictorial guides on how to do this sort of thing.

3. I'd like to experiment with lowering the front end of my bike a bit. I have 3 spacers under the bars, and I know I can take the bars off, remove a spacer, and then put it back on top of the bars (which will give me a weird looking sticky up bit, but is better than cutting the top off and then deciding I want to go back to how I was!)

Is this simple? Which bit do I need to undo? Is it the allen key bolt right on the top?

How much difference will lowering the bars by about 1cm make to the feel of riding the bike?

Just swap spacers until you are absolutely sure its right and even then its quite acceptable to keep it that way. Once you've cut some of the steerer off you can never add it back. To swap it undo the bolt on the top cap and remove it. Undo the two bolts at the back of the stem, lift it off, take the spacer off, put the stem back followed by the spacer. Put the top cap back and tighten the bolt down only lightly - its job is to just take out the slack, not clamp it tightly together. Then tighten up the bolts on the stem to hold it all in place.

Good luck

 

[PpPete]

I prefer the KMC chains to the SRAM - I just find KMC's quicklinks to be easier to use.

 

[slowmotion]

When you are fiddling with the stem and spacers, make sure that you keep the front wheel on the floor. You don't want the steerer tube to drop out. As has been said, do up the top cap lightly. Apply the front brake and push the handle bars. If you can move the bars relative to the frame, tighten the top cap a bit more.

 

[Globalti]

Rattling noise in top gear is probably the top jockey wheel running on the chain on the cog, quite common and it's probably been doing it for ages but you've only just noticed it. If it goes away in 2nd or 3rd gear, that's the answer. You can pull the cage back by tightening the B screw but this will only have a limited effect on the noise.

Creaking noise on turning the bars is cable outers.

Yes, mess around with stem height as much as you like. Just remove the top cap then undo the two pinch bolts. Swop the bits around then reassemble. You are right about keeping the length and it won't look too strange, I always leave some spare on mine.

To reassemble, pull the headset together using the top bolt until there's no play when you hold the front brake and rock the bike back and forth, but not so tight as to make the steering stiff. Then lock up the pinch bolts, make a cup of tea and feel good about yourself!"

 

[lulubel]

Thanks for the answers so far, and sorry I wasn't totally clear on the chain/gears question. I should have said "middle to top of the cassette". If you number the sprockets from the wheel outwards, it happens on 5,6 and 7. It stops on 8, and then I get a different noise on 9 (which I know is the chain rubbing on the cage, but I haven't adjusted it because I can just use the big chain ring with a different sprocket instead).

That's why I thought it could be the chain having stretched slightly. The sprockets are still quite small there - the difference in number of teeth between sprockets is less in the top half of the cassette than the bottom - and the chain is pretty much in a straight line, so I figured it was its shortest run, and any stretching would be most likely to show up there. It's also definitely a noise that has come on over time, and has got to the point where it's irritating me now. (I'm also starting to get a slight rattle with the small chain ring and sprocket 3 upwards, which is also new, and I'd forgotten about.)

Anyway, judging from the advice I've received on chain life, it looks like I should be getting a new one anyway, so I'll do that.

Is there any way I can tell if the sprockets are worn, or won't I know that until I put a new chain on? Will using a new chain with a worn cassette (if it is worn) damage the chain? Is a worn chain likely to have damaged the chain rings themselves?

Regarding the creaking noise, I'll have a play around with it, and see if I can identify a cable that's causing it. I hadn't thought of that possibility.

And I'm now confident about lowering the bars. Thanks for the advice on that.

 

[rusty bearing]

Sometimes you may get away with using an old cassette with a new chain but it's rare and given the mileage you deffo need to replace the cassette as well otherwise it will be next to impossible to get the gears changing properly, in fact it will be horrible!

Cassette wear? Just compare visually to a new one, look at the shape between the teeth and teeth themselves.

Don't measure a new chain against an old one when determining chain length, remember its stretched. Count the links instead deducting one for the powerlink.

Chainrings generally need replacing when the teeth look like small pointy mountains or look like the Matterhorn.

 

[Red Light]

That's why I thought it could be the chain having stretched slightly. The sprockets are still quite small there - the difference in number of teeth between sprockets is less in the top half of the cassette than the bottom - and the chain is pretty much in a straight line, so I figured it was its shortest run, and any stretching would be most likely to show up there. It's also definitely a noise that has come on over time, and has got to the point where it's irritating me now. (I'm also starting to get a slight rattle with the small chain ring and sprocket 3 upwards, which is also new, and I'd forgotten about.)

Is there any way I can tell if the sprockets are worn, or won't I know that until I put a new chain on? Will using a new chain with a worn cassette (if it is worn) damage the chain? Is a worn chain likely to have damaged the chain rings themselves?

The late great Sheldon Brown has a good section on chain and sprocket wear that helps with whether the sprockets are worn or not.

On the chain noise its unlikely to be wear - the chain and cogs wear together. From what you say I still suspect its chain rub on the front changer cage but it could also be the gear cable has stretched and you are getting the sounds of a chain on the verge of trying to shift. It might be worth playing around with the barrel adjuster on the rear mech to see if that fixes it. A half turn each way should tell.

The fact that you are getting it in the small chain ring with the smaller sprockets and the big chain ring with the smallest sprockets though says chain rub is the prime suspect to me. If it is it usually has a slight cyclic variation with the pedal stroke as the chain rings are rarely completely true. Try also holding the shifter lever over as you cycle along. That usually puts a little more tension on the changer and moves it slightly further out so should reduce the noise if that's the cause.

 

[battered]

Chains and cassettes wear together, if you swap chains promptly you can get 2 or 3 chains out of one cassete. That said a mate takes the view that he runs the whole lot unril it starts suffering chain suck or slip and then replaces the lot. I had a chain get worn last year on the commuter, I replaced it and it slipped on the old worn cassette. I put the old chain back on and got another year out of the thing before replaceing chain and cassette together.

IME you can't tell moderate wear from a cassette that is so worn that it will slip on a new chain. Chainrings start to look very pointy, I have one so old that the teeth have developed shoulders. This encourages chain suck and it's a pain. A round file will fix it but it's laborious.

 

[E11a]

I replaced my chain a couple of months ago and also had a rattling noise until I adjusted my front and rear derailleurs and tightened up the rear gear cable (thanks to Youtube). I also gave my jockey wheels a very good clean.

I've never tried SRAM chains but have a KMC one on at the moment and like the quicklink.

 

[lulubel]

Thanks for the link, Red Light. I've printed the whole lot off because I think it will be very useful.

I've just measured my chain and my OH's chain according to that guide, but using a plastic DIY tape measure because I don't have a metal one, and without holding the chain under tension because I don't have enough hands! Bearing in mind that both of those things could hide some stretch, I've concluded that we both need to replace chain and cassette. (Mine measured 1/16in over, and OH's measured 1/8in.)

So, I'm now looking for:

9-sp cassette and chain
8-sp cassette and chain

Does it matter what make the cassettes are, or do they have to be Shimano because that's what the rear derailleurs are?

Also, OH has decided to ask me difficult questions. She says there's nothing wrong with her bike, and everything's working fine, and wants to know why the chain and cassette need replacing. (Her idea of nothing wrong is probably very different from mine, judging from the state she keeps her bike in, but I'd really like to give her a decisive answer to the question.)

 

[battered]

Any cassete will work. I have just fitted a Shimano to my commuter, previously it had a SRAM, prior to that an original Shimano. Not bad fro better than 15,000 miles on and off road (mostly the latter over the last 5 yrs).

If OH is happy with the way her bike behaves and the chain is at 12 + 1/8 it's likely the whole thing is comprehensively bu*gered, so why not just run it until it falls apart? I did this with my old chain and cassette, they started slipping under load. Once it's as bad as that you may as well run it till it stops. A mate has done this for years and then just replaces everything. If by then the chainrings are looking tired, you can replace them too. It may start getting chain suck, and that will get up your nose and make up your mind.

 

[Red Light]

There's lots of other good stuff on Sheldon's site so worth a browse.

If you ran out of hands, that's what your elbow's for - to rest on the pedal and provide some tension

Question: Do you have the tools to remove the cassette - you need a chain whip (although a length of old chain and a vice will do) to stop the cassette turning when you try to undo the lockring, a lockring tool, a big spanner to go with it and maybe some brute force depending on the size of the gorilla that fitted it. If not it might be best to pop down the LBS to buy one and get them to replace it which many will do for free if you buy it off them. Otherwise Chain Reaction Cycles or Wiggle are good sources.

As for OH's question, as battered says, you can take the ain't broke don't fix it approach. Factors to weigh up are how long are they likely to keep the bike - they may have grown out of it before it needs fixing - and how good are the components. The disadvantage of waiting is you will probably need to replace the whole drivetrain - cassette, chain and front rings. If they are expensive it can be much cheaper to replace the chain regularly but if they are cheap its probably cheaper to run it till it wears out and then change it all.

 

[Red Light]

Any cassete will work.

Errr no. Shimano and Campag are not interchangeable and some of the others are not. See Sheldon Brown