80s rear wheel... gone wrong a bit quickly

[MrOz]

Dear All...

Excuse my lengthy ramblings, but I seem to spend a lot of time and £ doing/getting the wrong thing, and don't know if I've bought a lemon or not. Note this post is both a cathartic grumble as well as search for answers!

For my 1982 Peugeot project I got some basic 1984 Maillard/Rigida wheels for £65. They look in good condition, and the rear span nicely enough for me to sort out the gears, chain, rear brake et al. The alignment in the frame was never 100%, but manifestly good enough to complete the build, and have done about 50 miles on it since.

However now one rear brake block is rubbing against the wheel, and looking at the alignment the wheel is nicely midway between the chain stays but way too off-centre wrt the seat stays. If I faff with its position in the dropouts I can get it in the middle of the brakes but it rubs against the chain stay. You can just about get it not rubbing anywhere (too close to tubes for comfort mind) and see it's pretty true.

After some discussion with well-informed friends we think it might "just" need redishing. Alternatively half an inch of spacer on the non drive side of the axle might help.

Spacer = surely a bit dangerous re securing the wheel to the frame?

Redish = can something really need a redish after just 50 miles (presumably it had done several more miles in the 30 years previous)? I thought redishing was more a requirement for single speed conversions, a substantial change not a tweak.

Other #1 = LBS thought that it could cost c. £40 to sort out - and note original cost. I might as well buy a replacement wheel in that case, especially if the problem is something more substantial than dishing. But that strikes me as a lottery too - how would I know before buying it whether another 30 year old wheel is likely to be better? (And, of course, having mismatched wheel makes me feel all twitchy)

Other #2 = Is it possible the wheel is fine but the frame has somehow twisted?

So there you go. Not sure what to do.

Andrew.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

A wheel cannot un-dish itself although it can start to wobble by itself. If it un-dished, or extra-dished itself it would be the equivalent of just ten monkeys on typewriters writing Shakespeare stuff.

Therefore something else is wrong. I'm tempted to say the dishing is out but why not just check it? It is easy. Put the wheel in a frame and check the spacing and then remove it and fit it the other way around and again check spacing. It should remain the same.

You say your frame is not aligned. Why do you not think that this is your problem?

Finally, does the wheel run true?

 

[MrOz]

Hmm.

Yes it runs true.

Basically as I don't know enough about frames or wheels, it just strikes me that this frame has been knocking about for 32 years and didn't end up at the tip. The bike comes from a reputable source, the wheels from an unknown quantity. Wheels have more moving parts (kinda) to go wrong. The wheel was "adequately" aligned when I first put it in.

But if someone more knowledgeable than me (and that's not hard to find) said the frame is more likely to be duff I'd be happy to agree with them.

 

[mikeymustard]

If the wheel is mostly true and the frame is straight then it should be more or less equidistant between the chainstays and seat stays; I would think, given both frame and wheels are from the same era, it's unlikely they'd need relishing.
If the dropouts have screw adjusters makes sure they're both at the same depth.
Is there any play in the bearings or axle bent?

 

[MrOz]

I'm annoyed now I haven't got the bike in the boot to check these things!

I adjusted the screws so that it was as straight as possible - didn't check whether depth was equal or not.

There is a bit of play in the bearings, but I have recently replaced the bearings and regreased I thought it was minimal enough to live with.

 

[arch684]

You can buy an expensive tool to check the alignment of the frame or you could just use a long piece of string.Tie it to the head tube and down around the dropouts and back to the head tube.Measure the distance from the seat tube to the string on both sides,both should be the same

 

[biggs682]

@MrOz where are you based ?

if local to me in Northamptonshire feel free to get in touch and i will gladly cast my eyes over it

is the wheel sitting square in the drop outs ?

my lbs charge no ore than £15 to re dish a wheel if needed and less than a £10 for truing one up

 

[Illaveago]

You say that you have regressed the bearings? You haven't rebuilt it slightly lop sided or put a washer from one side on the opposite side making it off centre have you?

 

[raleighnut]

You say that you have regressed the bearings? You haven't rebuilt it slightly lop sided or put a washer from one side on the opposite side making it off centre have you?

You may have hit the nail on the head there.

 

[stevevw]

You say that you have regressed the bearings? You haven't rebuilt it slightly lop sided or put a washer from one side on the opposite side making it off centre have you?

That seems the most likely.

If you are near North Herts I too would be happy to take a look. I have a dishing tool, wheel building stand and plenty of string. I am also just about to make a frame alignment tool.

 

[MrOz]

Ah, I am a bit too distant sadly, but thank you very much for the offers.

And some good ideas for me to investigate.

Hmm.

 

[MrOz]

If I may follow up on your diagnosing suggestions...

String-round-headtube method showed a 4-5mm discrepancy on one side.

Turning wheel around centred it nicely between stays. If it makes any difference, the hub was reassembled with the larger spacer on the non-drive side.

 

[stevevw]

Big spacer would normally go on the drive side.

How are you running the string and where are you taking the measurements from?