5 ft 6", Short Legs, MTB Recommendation for Trails £1500-£2000

[RuffDraft]

Hello everyone,

Recently, I went on a bike ride for six hours (2 x 3 hours) with the children I teach. We went on different trails and I had the best time. On the trails, we did steep hills of around 2 metres in height, and often went down to go up the same height, which I really liked. I am hoping to take up mountain biking, as I enjoyed riding a bike as a child, and haven't had as much fun as I did on the trails last week in ages! I weight 15 stone, but I am more so toned than fat (I don't know if weight is something to consider).

Today, I have been searching the web for a bike. My brother is hardcore into it with triathlons etc. and I've spoken to a mountain biker and a road cyclist. The general recommendation has been to get a hard tail. They said that cheap = rust. I want to get a good bike that will allow me to challenge myself. My aim is to ride trails like the ones I have described, with a view of pushing myself a little further, though I do not wish to break any bones with this hobby. I will ride once or twice a week and drive to different trails in the North West, UK.

I considered the Scott Scale 730, but I read on another forum that this bike is incredibly fast (sometimes too fast for the unskilled and requires you to ride closer to the front wheel than other bikes). Therefore, I continued searching until I came across the Cotic Soul, which riders explained was a great ride and great at cornering. Also, the Cotic Soul was a much more comfortable ride than the Scott Scale 730. However, both bikes are upwards of the £2000. Are there any bikes in the £1500 budget that are comparable to the two previously mentioned bikes? What would you recommend? I do not wish to use my bike as a road bike. I do not like the idea of being knocked off by a passing driver.

Thanks to anyone who can help!

 

[Cubist]

If you have that sort of budget, you need to look at trail bikes rather than XC bikes. Some names to look at with the sort of use you intend would be Bird, On One, Ragley, Genesis, and of course Cotic. Slack and playful frames with rugged components, mid travel fork and strong wheels.

Oh, and welcome e.

 

[RuffDraft]

If you have that sort of budget, you need to look at trail bikes rather than XC bikes. Some names to look at with the sort of use you intend would be Bird, On One, Ragley, Genesis, and of course Cotic. Slack and playful frames with rugged components, mid travel fork and strong wheels.

Oh, and welcome e.

Thanks Cubist. Do you have any particular preferences out of the brand names that you mentioned, or any particular bikes in mind?

I think with whatever I do, I always wish to stretch the budget in order to be safe and secure with what I am using, and always have room to grow. If I buy an expensive bike now, hopefully I won't have to buy again in the long run. Sound wise or stupid?

Thanks a lot for your help!

 

[MichaelW2]

If you have proportionally short legs, look for a bike with a proportionally long frame for its height. A compact style dropped top tube will help with . Short cranks also help. 170mm is standard and 175mm is often found of MTBs.

 

[RuffDraft]

If you have proportionally short legs, look for a bike with a proportionally long frame for its height. A compact style dropped top tube will help with . Short cranks also help. 170mm is standard and 175mm is often found of MTBs.

You just said a bunch of things that I didn't understand, but thank you! I'll look into it and try to comprehend it!

 

[RuffDraft]

Hi Everyone,

So after looking at the options in detail, and reading some threads from here in years gone by, I think the Cotic Soul sounds like a fantastic bike. Their Small frame is unavailable until the Summer, but it sounds like a great bike to get. Could anyone break down whether the silver or gold are vastly different? Is the Silver simply the cheapest products they could attach to the Soul, whilst the Gold is the one that everyone here raves about?

A good breakdown would be greatly appreciated - I can't find anything online!

 

[Levo-Lon]

Have a look at Canyon..lot of bike for sensible money.
extra small will suit your size.

grand canyon CF6.9 ?

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/mtb/

 

[Cubist]

Hi Everyone,

So after looking at the options in detail, and reading some threads from here in years gone by, I think the Cotic Soul sounds like a fantastic bike. Their Small frame is unavailable until the Summer, but it sounds like a great bike to get. Could anyone break down whether the silver or gold are vastly different? Is the Silver simply the cheapest products they could attach to the Soul, whilst the Gold is the one that everyone here raves about?

A good breakdown would be greatly appreciated - I can't find anything online!

The Cotic Soul is a bit of a legend. When they were first produced they kind of broke the mould of hardtail ownership. The hardtail market then was flooded with European style bikes, in two camps. The first was the out and out race thoroughbred with steep head angles, shortish travel suspension (on a 26 inch wheel bike the fork was typically 80 or 100mm travel. ) They were fast, fun and furious, but were a bit hard to tame. The other side of the divide was the trekking bike. In those days Europeans didn't particularly go to ride trail centres, that was a peculiarly British thing, and this part of the market provided an ostensibly similar type of bike to the XC, but more utilitarian, designed for all day riding on fire roads and bridleways. They didn't perform well on sketchy stuff, that was the domain of the full suss XC or trail bikes. People wanted to ride without racing, but they didn't want to be jarred or thrown over the bars of their fast hardtail, and initially led by the full suss side, the All Mountain bike evolved onto the scene. Longer travel, typically 120mm-140mm suspension was making its presence felt, and slacker geometry, meaning that a rider looking down a descent wasn't staring into the abyss.

UK riders had to be different. They wanted the hardtail, but they also wanted the geometry of the AM bike, and so the hooligan hardtail or AM hardtail was born. British framebuilders led the way, with Ragley, On One and Cotic producing slack hardtails capable of taking a beating, and (eventually) taking long travel forks. The Ragley Bluepig (named after a famous Calderdale descent) may have started the trend, a sturdy cromo steel frame , but their Mmmbop was a similar hardtail in Aluminium. One One went for Chromoly Steel on their 456, having first offered the Inbred. (The 4,5,6 denotes the geometry was suited to a 4", 5" inch or 6" travel fork. ) Cotic produced the BFe (Burly Iron) and then the Soul in Reynolds 853 steel to the same spec. Capable of taking a beating, but weighing much less than the BFe. All the frames share common characteristics, of massive standover clearance, long slack front end, and snappy short rear. Playful, better at going down, but not impossible to ride up. Others have since followed suit, but the original DNA can be traced back to UK gritty Northernness.

They are all what I would call hooligan hardtails, but the Soul's lower frameweight and legendary comfort due to the frame material makes it standout as one of the all time greats. It was originally sold frame only. Riders wanting that sort of bike wanted to choose their favourite options. Mine for example is equipped with 2x10 speed Deore XT drivetrain, Hope Arch wheelset and a Rockshox Reba fork. It also has a dropper seatpost, which makes perfect sense given my intended use.

The two builds offered on their site are both great. The gold has XT 8000 drivetrain and a Hope Wheelset as the main difference. It has premium brakes. Both bikes have the same fork, but the Silver has Deore brakes and Shimano MT15 wheels. The rest is finishing kit, and none of it is poor.

The Gold will no doubt win in the carpark, but you'd have to be pretty special a rider to justify the extra price tag. The "less than premium" components on the Silver are great to start with. I wouldn't recommend the upgrade for a novice.

Soul is a premium bike to start with, and of course if you later have money to spare, then you could upgrade to a higher spec over time.

Have a good hard look at full builds from Bird, On One and Ragley before you push the button.

 

[RuffDraft]

Have a look at Canyon..lot of bike for sensible money.
extra small will suit your size.

grand canyon CF6.9 ?

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/mtb/

That looks like a really nice bike! Especially the 8.9! Would you take it over a Soul though? Seems like it has a huge cult following...

The Cotic Soul is a bit of a legend. When they were first produced they kind of broke the mould of hardtail ownership. The hardtail market then was flooded with European style bikes, in two camps. The first was the out and out race thoroughbred with steep head angles, shortish travel suspension (on a 26 inch wheel bike the fork was typically 80 or 100mm travel. ) They were fast, fun and furious, but were a bit hard to tame. The other side of the divide was the trekking bike. In those days Europeans didn't particularly go to ride trail centres, that was a peculiarly British thing, and this part of the market provided an ostensibly similar type of bike to the XC, but more utilitarian, designed for all day riding on fire roads and bridleways. They didn't perform well on sketchy stuff, that was the domain of the full suss XC or trail bikes. People wanted to ride without racing, but they didn't want to be jarred or thrown over the bars of their fast hardtail, and initially led by the full suss side, the All Mountain bike evolved onto the scene. Longer travel, typically 120mm-140mm suspension was making its presence felt, and slacker geometry, meaning that a rider looking down a descent wasn't staring into the abyss.

UK riders had to be different. They wanted the hardtail, but they also wanted the geometry of the AM bike, and so the hooligan hardtail or AM hardtail was born. British framebuilders led the way, with Ragley, On One and Cotic producing slack hardtails capable of taking a beating, and (eventually) taking long travel forks. The Ragley Bluepig (named after a famous Calderdale descent) may have started the trend, a sturdy cromo steel frame , but their Mmmbop was a similar hardtail in Aluminium. One One went for Chromoly Steel on their 456, having first offered the Inbred. (The 4,5,6 denotes the geometry was suited to a 4", 5" inch or 6" travel fork. ) Cotic produced the BFe (Burly Iron) and then the Soul in Reynolds 853 steel to the same spec. Capable of taking a beating, but weighing much less than the BFe. All the frames share common characteristics, of massive standover clearance, long slack front end, and snappy short rear. Playful, better at going down, but not impossible to ride up. Others have since followed suit, but the original DNA can be traced back to UK gritty Northernness.

They are all what I would call hooligan hardtails, but the Soul's lower frameweight and legendary comfort due to the frame material makes it standout as one of the all time greats. It was originally sold frame only. Riders wanting that sort of bike wanted to choose their favourite options. Mine for example is equipped with 2x10 speed Deore XT drivetrain, Hope Arch wheelset and a Rockshox Reba fork. It also has a dropper seatpost, which makes perfect sense given my intended use.

The two builds offered on their site are both great. The gold has XT 8000 drivetrain and a Hope Wheelset as the main difference. It has premium brakes. Both bikes have the same fork, but the Silver has Deore brakes and Shimano MT15 wheels. The rest is finishing kit, and none of it is poor.

The Gold will no doubt win in the carpark, but you'd have to be pretty special a rider to justify the extra price tag. The "less than premium" components on the Silver are great to start with. I wouldn't recommend the upgrade for a novice.

Soul is a premium bike to start with, and of course if you later have money to spare, then you could upgrade to a higher spec over time.

Have a good hard look at full builds from Bird, On One and Ragley before you push the button.

This is the type of breakdown that I'd hoped for - absolutely brilliant! Thank you!

Repping the North here! Are you also from the North?

I've also read that FOX is the leading suspension brand? Is Rockshox still good? I also would like a drop post, as it sounds like the best technique is to alter it for downhill?

Also, what do you make of the tyres and how likely are they to pop on the Silver? I was considering spending extra to get one of the double inner tube stylings that apparently stops punctures somewhat?

It's great that you're also a Soul rider! I think everyone who has one speaks with such passion, which is great! Also read that someone had done 4,000 miles on theirs and it was still running a treat - all things you want to hear with an investment!

OK - sounds like the perfect plan for me to get the Silver. Would you ever consider swapping your Soul for an On One, Bird or Ragley though? The people who have swapped seemed to regret it in the older threads? Thanks again!!!

 

[Cubist]

That looks like a really nice bike! Especially the 8.9! Would you take it over a Soul though? Seems like it has a huge cult following...



This is the type of breakdown that I'd hoped for - absolutely brilliant! Thank you!

Repping the North here! Are you also from the North?

I've also read that FOX is the leading suspension brand? Is Rockshox still good? I also would like a drop post, as it sounds like the best technique is to alter it for downhill?

Also, what do you make of the tyres and how likely are they to pop on the Silver? I was considering spending extra to get one of the double inner tube stylings that apparently stops punctures somewhat?

It's great that you're also a Soul rider! I think everyone who has one speaks with such passion, which is great! Also read that someone had done 4,000 miles on theirs and it was still running a treat - all things you want to hear with an investment!

OK - sounds like the perfect plan for me to get the Silver. Would you ever consider swapping your Soul for an On One, Bird or Ragley though? The people who have swapped seemed to regret it in the older threads? Thanks again!!!

I've never been a fan of Fox. Rockshox are my favourites, but I also own XFusion and Magura.

My Soul is here to stay. I've tried it with a 140 fork for hooning, but have put the 120 Reba back on as it's a rounder package.

The tyres, run tubeless, will be fine. The double tube tyres are an unknown for me

 

[RuffDraft]

I've never been a fan of Fox. Rockshox are my favourites, but I also own XFusion and Magura.

My Soul is here to stay. I've tried it with a 140 fork for hooning, but have put the 120 Reba back on as it's a rounder package.

The tyres, run tubeless, will be fine. The double tube tyres are an unknown for me

Thanks - great to know that it's not Fox or go home!

Thank you. Would you say that you could run the Soul on regular pavement / tarmac as well? Or is it strictly for the forest trails?

Thanks again! I'm waiting until the Small frame comes back in stock so I can buy it. Would you recommend any particular helmets / gloves or other accessories that are a must when going biking? I know as a videographer that you can buy a camera, but then you need lenses, different supports, lighting equipment and before you know it, you're triple your investment (if not worse!)

 

[Jody]

The tyres, run tubeless, will be fine.

I bang on about it at any given opportunity but can honestly say tubeless is the best thing thats been out for years. Had them set up for 18 months, probably had in the region of 30+ punctures and not one has stopped me or lost any significant pressure when riding.

 

[Jody]

Would you recommend any particular helmets / gloves or other accessories that are a must when going biking?)

How much kit you need is debateable and depends on how prepared you want to be plus where you are riding. Minimum for me is helmet, gloves, a good mini tool and a tenner if local. Any further field or remote riding is camel back, bit of snap, spare tube (just incase), patches, some carry a replacement mech hanger and I will soon be making a first aid kit in a water bottle for emergency (foil blanket, medical and gaffer tape, bandages, asprin etc)

Clothes depend on style, be it baggy or lycra. Padded shorts are a must for longer rides, a decent waterproof coat for winter, base layers etc

No matter how much you have now there is always something else on the list. I never thought £25+ on one pair of waterproof socks would be anything other than a waste of money, but used on a cold wet day they have completely changed my mind.

 

[Cubist]

Thanks - great to know that it's not Fox or go home!

Thank you. Would you say that you could run the Soul on regular pavement / tarmac as well? Or is it strictly for the forest trails?

Thanks again! I'm waiting until the Small frame comes back in stock so I can buy it. Would you recommend any particular helmets / gloves or other accessories that are a must when going biking? I know as a videographer that you can buy a camera, but then you need lenses, different supports, lighting equipment and before you know it, you're triple your investment (if not worse!)

The Soul will run on tarmac, of course, but you'll need to play with tyre pressures. Run tubeless, those Contis are extremely grippy on hard pack trail and looser surfaces. They tend to run between 20 and 30 psi depending on rider weight and preference, and have a design limit of about 40 psi thanks to the rims. They will be draggy on tarmac.

As for kit, well, there are loads of bargains to be had, or you could be bent over for your life savings if you choose to follow fad and fashion. MTB is one area where "helmet" is not a dirty word. You need protection, and MTB specific helmets have lower backs, different peaks and vents. Look at stuff like the Bell Super, Giro Xsar POC, Cat, etc. Loads of choice, but head shape differs. What looks cool in the shop may be a hefty, chafing, glasses-nudging hindrance on the trail. Try before you buy. You don't need to spend the earth, but even sizes aren't all that reliable.

Gloves. I like MTB specific ones with finger protection. I found d that cheaper gloves especially mitts, chafe the web between finger and thumb due to all the gear changing you do. Look at 661, my personal favourites. Vital protection especially in a spill, and you will fall off.

Shorts. Baggies are de rigeur and practical. Roadies don't need pockets, but you do....maps, phone, fags. Reinforced crotch but no chunky seams. I like Endura, but others are out there. Padded undershorts, again my preference is for bibshorts.

Loose, but not baggy tops, and a decent waterproof jacket. Here's where you get what you pay for. If you're charging up an incline in a boil in the bag bargain you'll curse your shopping habits for the entire ride. I personally like to wear a weather resistant windproof over a good base layer, and if I get wet I know I've got a change of clothes in the car. On an all day epic though you need a quality waterproof. Gore, Paramo, Rab, Endura, all breathable to varying degrees.

Knee pads. Flexible, all day com fort if you choose properly. You will fall off, and you will hurt your legs. Look at 661 Veggies, Fox etc etc.

Finally glasses. You're going to get bits of debris and vegetation thrown at you. Your choice, especially if you already wear specs, but look for vented lenses to help with fogging.


As @Jody says, a decent small pack for tool kit and spare clothes/ tubes and a pump. With a reservoir, or use it to carry a drinks bottle.

 

[RuffDraft]

I bang on about it at any given opportunity but can honestly say tubeless is the best thing thats been out for years. Had them set up for 18 months, probably had in the region of 30+ punctures and not one has stopped me or lost any significant pressure when riding.

Do tubeless come as standard with the Cotic Soul? If not, should I buy tubeless 27.5" tyres? Recommend any? Will they match up with the Shimano MT15 wheels?

They sound incredible! I'm aware that I have a lot of learning to do where bikes are concerned. Appreciate the help.

How much kit you need is debateable and depends on how prepared you want to be plus where you are riding. Minimum for me is helmet, gloves, a good mini tool and a tenner if local. Any further field or remote riding is camel back, bit of snap, spare tube (just incase), patches, some carry a replacement mech hanger and I will soon be making a first aid kit in a water bottle for emergency (foil blanket, medical and gaffer tape, bandages, asprin etc)

Clothes depend on style, be it baggy or lycra. Padded shorts are a must for longer rides, a decent waterproof coat for winter, base layers etc

No matter how much you have now there is always something else on the list. I never thought £25+ on one pair of waterproof socks would be anything other than a waste of money, but used on a cold wet day they have completely changed my mind.

Sounds like it IS like photography haha! That's what I'm aware of... so £1650 for the bike, plus £300 for extra kit should do it. I'll get the best gloves, helmet and mini toolkit I can afford / best comfort etc. for now, as well as a waterproof coat and go from there. Thanks a lot!

The Soul will run on tarmac, of course, but you'll need to play with tyre pressures. Run tubeless, those Contis are extremely grippy on hard pack trail and looser surfaces. They tend to run between 20 and 30 psi depending on rider weight and preference, and have a design limit of about 40 psi thanks to the rims. They will be draggy on tarmac.

Thanks Cubist! I will have to look more into how to make the tyres run better on tarmac then should I wish to go out and have some fun in the local area. Will the tyres always be draggy on tarmac or will I find a nice medium by playing with the tyre pressures?

As for kit, well, there are loads of bargains to be had, or you could be bent over for your life savings if you choose to follow fad and fashion. MTB is one area where "helmet" is not a dirty word. You need protection, and MTB specific helmets have lower backs, different peaks and vents. Look at stuff like the Bell Super, Giro Xsar POC, Cat, etc. Loads of choice, but head shape differs. What looks cool in the shop may be a hefty, chafing, glasses-nudging hindrance on the trail. Try before you buy. You don't need to spend the earth, but even sizes aren't all that reliable.

Thanks for the tips on the brand names and the shape of mountain bike helmets! I'll be sure to try before I buy. I'm not too bothered about being fashionable when I'm riding. I don't tend to take too much pride in the way I look, much more so that I'm comfortable and prepared.

Gloves. I like MTB specific ones with finger protection. I found d that cheaper gloves especially mitts, chafe the web between finger and thumb due to all the gear changing you do. Look at 661, my personal favourites. Vital protection especially in a spill, and you will fall off.

I'll get those - I'm simply in the mood to get it, rather than do a tonne of research. At the end of the day, experienced riders will know more than any research that I do!

Shorts. Baggies are de rigeur and practical. Roadies don't need pockets, but you do....maps, phone, fags. Reinforced crotch but no chunky seams. I like Endura, but others are out there. Padded undershorts, again my preference is for bibshorts.

Loose, but not baggy tops, and a decent waterproof jacket. Here's where you get what you pay for. If you're charging up an incline in a boil in the bag bargain you'll curse your shopping habits for the entire ride. I personally like to wear a weather resistant windproof over a good base layer, and if I get wet I know I've got a change of clothes in the car. On an all day epic though you need a quality waterproof. Gore, Paramo, Rab, Endura, all breathable to varying degrees.

Knee pads. Flexible, all day com fort if you choose properly. You will fall off, and you will hurt your legs. Look at 661 Veggies, Fox etc etc.

Finally glasses. You're going to get bits of debris and vegetation thrown at you. Your choice, especially if you already wear specs, but look for vented lenses to help with fogging.

Thank you! Amazing post! Do they do glasses that I can put my perscription in? I need glasses to see far.

As @Jody says, a decent small pack for tool kit and spare clothes/ tubes and a pump. With a reservoir, or use it to carry a drinks bottle.[/QUOTE]

Thanks!!!

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So, are we all in agreement that I should get the Cotic Soul?! I've read on mbr.com that the Whyte 901 is the best and £500 cheaper? Is that because the Cotic is an older model and therefore, it is often forgotten about?