4600 -> 4700 front much woes

[gaijintendo]

Hello team,

I got an inexpensive gearset, lightly used on eBay for cheaps and wanted to swap things over and see if the upgrade is noticeable. In riding a large kaffenback 2.

Problem is I can't get out of the granny ring bearer long arm of the derailleur hits the Schwabe Marathon +.

Potentially relevant info;

First up, it's the 4600 cranks on here which I understand are compatible.

Secondly, it's a band on adapter being used for the derailleur.

Lastly, I have 32c tyres on this commuter.

I am hoping the 4600 much will work with the shifters, and I have played with height and angles, but aside from that, any ideas?

Edit: Just seen the word "protrusion" in the manual. Any ideas what that changes?

 

[Ajax Bay]

The so-called upgrade will not be noticeable, but don't let that discourage you. Petronius didn't.
Struggling a bit to understand the detail from your discursive question but bottom line is that the lever arm of the FD-4600 fouls the tyre you have on (or vice versa). Or is it the 4700 version that fouls it. Has it ever worked?
The make/model of cranks will make little difference: the chainline will be essentially the same, as will the size of the large chainring (~50t).
You say the wheels are 32c (doubt it - do you mean the tyres?). What size (ie 32-622) are the Marathon +s? And how wide are they actually? Now try to measure the distance between the perimeter of the rim to the top surface. IME M+s come up way over spec, and more so on a wide rimmed wheel. Have you tried a narrower tyre (not to use but) to see how much less you need to get the FD lever to work? How much clearance is there at the other 3 'closest' points (the two bridges and the down tube?

 

[gaijintendo]

Will respond to the gap measurements if I can. It came stock 4600, I am trying to install a fd4700. The 4600 arm is significantly smaller.

The wheel is 622 23c-32c, tyre is 32c (amended my post) spec, and played fine with the fd4600.

Will take a look at the measurements, but this is my comfy commuter, so don't really want to get too low profile...

 

[Ajax Bay]

If the FD-4600 fits and the FD-4700 doesn't (with the tyres you have fitted) the balance of advantage of the 'upgrade' seems illusory. I know it's annoying that something that you might think should work doesn't for some reason. The 4700 provides a longer arm to allow changing with less force on the cable. But the 4600 works OK.
As far as measurements, the width and (related) height are the most useful ones to help with this (rather than the frame gaps).

 

[the snail]

If you're still using 4600 shifters then it's not going to work properly or at all because the cable pull is different, and the main difference between 4600/4700 is the exposed/hidden gear cables. M+ are pretty tall tyres aren't they? You might get more clearance with duranos or gatorskins maybe, but it's maybe worth trying to set the gears up without a tyre on and seeing if this set up will work at all. They changed the bcd I think on 4700, maybe the chainline is different too? The joys of Shimano (in)compatability... I don't think changing the fd is really an upgrade, you'd really need to change the whole groupset to 4700, and there's really nothing wrong with 4600 - 4700 is really a cosmetic upgrade at the end of the day.

 

[raleighnut]

Hello team,

I got an inexpensive gearset, lightly used on eBay for cheaps and wanted to swap things over and see if the upgrade is noticeable. In riding a large kaffenback 2.

Problem is I can't get out of the granny ring bearer long arm of the derailleur hits the Schwabe Marathon +.

Potentially relevant info;

First up, it's the 4600 cranks on here which I understand are compatible.

Secondly, it's a band on adapter being used for the derailleur.

Lastly, I have 32c tyres on this commuter.

I am hoping the 4600 much will work with the shifters, and I have played with height and angles, but aside from that, any ideas?

Edit: Just seen the word "protrusion" in the manual. Any ideas what that changes?

Bit leftfield but can you not rotate the mounting ring to bring it forward then the front mech arm may clear the tyre (the mech mounts on a curved plate on my only bike with a braze on and that is certainly not central on the downtube, in fact it is almost in line with the front of it.)

Whereas yours seems to be roughly central on the downtube

 

[gaijintendo]

If you're still using 4600 shifters then it's not going to work properly or at all because the cable pull is different, and the main difference between 4600/4700 is the exposed/hidden gear cables. M+ are pretty tall tyres aren't they? You might get more clearance with duranos or gatorskins maybe, but it's maybe worth trying to set the gears up without a tyre on and seeing if this set up will work at all. They changed the bcd I think on 4700, maybe the chainline is different too? The joys of Shimano (in)compatability... I don't think changing the fd is really an upgrade, you'd really need to change the whole groupset to 4700, and there's really nothing wrong with 4600 - 4700 is really a cosmetic upgrade at the end of the day.

I probably am misusing "gearset", shifters are also changing over to 4700. I may end up not only having wasted my time as Ajax Bay is suggesting, but also having one shifter from each set. How irritating.

Bit leftfield but can you not rotate the mounting ring to bring it forward then the front mech arm may clear the tyre (the mech mounts on a curved plate on my only bike with a braze on and that is certainly not central on the downtube, in fact it is almost in line with the front of it.)

Whereas yours seems to be roughly central on the downtube

Played with it this way and that, and where it has ended up is where it seems like it should be. Any more forward and it looks quite angled.

 

[raleighnut]

I probably am misusing "gearset", shifters are also changing over to 4700. I may end up not only having wasted my time as Ajax Bay is suggesting, but also having one shifter from each set. How irritating.




Played with it this way and that, and where it has ended up is where it seems like it should be. Any more forward and it looks quite angled.

What you have is a braze on mech with a band on adapter, it is not 1 single piece. However it may be that the tyre is too big to give clearance for this set up, will the wheel move back at all in the dropouts.

 

[gaijintendo]

So, a wee update.
4600 much works with the 4700 shifter, so that's that for now. I imagine the reverse is true, given the 4700 is a lighter shift.

The difference is mild. Marginal some might say. Total waste of time for my purposes, but thanks all.