3-Speed Roadster - with odd lug construction.

[SkipdiverJohn]

As a result of a conversation with a fellow CC Forum member, I seem to have acquired an unwanted mid-80's light roadster!. Ostensibly it came out of the Elswick-Hopper/Falcon factory in Barton-on-Humber, but with Astra on the head tube sticker. Details like crimped tube ends welded to stamped dropouts (like Puch also used to do) tells me it's a budget market bike, which makes me wonder if it was a catalogue brand rather than a bike shop one - but it rides very well nonetheless.

It's brazed & lugged, but not in the way I'd expect at the head tube junction. Instead of having separate lugs over the tube joins, this one has a head tube with female sockets formed into the rear, into which the top and down tubes were inserted before brazing. I've not come across this variation of lugged construction before and am wondering if any other Forum members have encountered it on budget steel frames? Weight is about what I'd expect for it's 23" frame size and all-steel componentry, maybe a little light if anything. Doesn't feel like a tank either to pick up or ride and isn't actually that slow on a decent bit of road. Rather strangely also has 27" x 1 1/4" wheels not 26" x 1 3/8" as you'd expect on a 3-speed.

 

[biggs682]

@SkipdiverJohn nice find , don't think i have seen that kind of lug set up before
Looks in fair condition in all fairness
An ideal around town bike .... enjoy the miles with a smile

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

@SkipdiverJohn nice find , don't think i have seen that kind of lug set up before
Looks in fair condition in all fairness
An ideal around town bike .... enjoy the miles with a smile

You're right, condition not bad at all considering it's 34 years old according to the SA hub. One careful owner for the first 30-odd years, then was loaned to a mechanical numpty who left the brakes and mudguards hanging loose and apparently managed to crash it as well. Once sorted out it's proved that a 3-speed can be surprisingly good fun to ride. Rather old-school with slack geometry and comfortable on crappy road surfaces. I haven't gone much further than 10 mile rides on it yet, I want to find my mileage tolerance limit for the saddle first.. Shops and pub trips are likely to be the main uses. as it's ideal for urban traffic, sat up high with good visibility and you can't be in the wrong gear with a Sturmey!

 

[midlife]

I don't recognise it as a Barton frame, does it have a plate brazed on for the rear brake and rack. I guess there are braze ons for the chain guard

Blooming good nick

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I don't recognise it as a Barton frame, does it have a plate brazed on for the rear brake and rack.

I always thought Elswick used conventional lugs and conventional frame tube/dropout joining techniques, hence me wondering if these were specially brought-in to build lower-budget bikes for a specific market?
There's a pressed steel flat plate acting as a rear brake bridge, carrier mount & mudguard mount. Similar to what you would find on some 18-23 Raleigh frames rather than a tubular bridge used on the better Reynolds variants. The bottom of the chainguard is screwed to the underside of the BB housing.

 

[midlife]

Looks like a far east frame aping what would have been a cheaper end of the European market. I wouldn't put it past Falcon to get the frames in and stick kit on it for the USA Market. Then there were Asian makers like Yung trying to get into the UK and Europe.

 

[Gravity Aided]

Kind of common for that time period over here, especially for the head tube joins. I'm going to the co-op today, I'll see if any examples spring to hand.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Kind of common for that time period over here, especially for the head tube joins. I'm going to the co-op today, I'll see if any examples spring to hand.

I'm inclined to think the frame may have been foreign in origin, and just UK assembled. I wouldn't expect it to be from the USA though, being a high cost country. More like Eastern Europe or the Far East, where factory wages and other costs would be low compared to the UK. The bike is fairly light for a 3-speed and the frame is noticeably more flexible than my 23" Raleigh Pioneer when I apply the "foot test" to the BB whilst holding the saddle and bars. I suspect it is made of the minimum gauge of gas pipe that would hold up in service, it doesn't feel super-solid.
I follow the touring trips blog written by @tyred on here and he refers to his Record 3-speed, which he thinks may be from the Communist Bloc. Unfortunately his pictures aren't close-up enough for me to get a good look at the lugwork and compare to mine, although the bikes are visually pretty similar, so it does make me wonder.

 

[tyred]

I'm inclined to think the frame may have been foreign in origin, and just UK assembled. I wouldn't expect it to be from the USA though, being a high cost country. More like Eastern Europe or the Far East, where factory wages and other costs would be low compared to the UK. The bike is fairly light for a 3-speed and the frame is noticeably more flexible than my 23" Raleigh Pioneer when I apply the "foot test" to the BB whilst holding the saddle and bars. I suspect it is made of the minimum gauge of gas pipe that would hold up in service, it doesn't feel super-solid.
I follow the touring trips blog written by @tyred on here and he refers to his Record 3-speed, which he thinks may be from the Communist Bloc. Unfortunately his pictures aren't close-up enough for me to get a good look at the lugwork and compare to mine, although the bikes are visually pretty similar, so it does make me wonder.

I don't have bike to hand as it's sitting in my parent's garage at the moment but it does look pretty similar although my lugs are more traditional and slightly more ornate. The design of the fork crown matches too although my front forks are different as mine seems to have less rake and also a braze on for the bottle dynamo on the RHS and also mounting points for a front rack (I can't see if you have the rack mounts). The top bearing race design looks identical to what mine had originally before I replaced the headset but my original headset had an unusual locknut design.

Have a look at your bottom bracket. Mine has what I believe to be called a Thompson bottom bracket which a bearing design similar to a one-piece BMX bottom bracket but with removable cottered cranks.

I once had a matching step-through Record as well which I re-homed and it was this bike which was written about on another blog which ended up giving it the identity of a Slovenian-made Rog Turist if you read all the comments - http://lovelybike.blogspot.com/2015/08/the-story-of-shattered-record.html

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Thanks for that @tyred . The one you linked to has similarities in the way the rear stay tubes are crimped & attached to the dropouts, also similar style rack. I'm inclined to think it came from a different factory, but maybe the same part of the world. If the rear wheel and hub is original, and it looks to be a matched pair with the front, the SA hub says it was assembled in 1985. One thing I am fairly convinced of though, is that it isn't a rebadged Puch frame, as I've got a Puch 3-speed to compare it with, and whilst also a budget market bike the Puch has a stiffer & more solidly built frame, and slightly decorative lugs. The lugs on my burgundy 3-speed remind me of solder-feed copper plumbing fittings more than anything!

 

[Gravity Aided]

Thanks for that @tyred . The one you linked to has similarities in the way the rear stay tubes are crimped & attached to the dropouts, also similar style rack. I'm inclined to think it came from a different factory, but maybe the same part of the world. If the rear wheel and hub is original, and it looks to be a matched pair with the front, the SA hub says it was assembled in 1985. One thing I am fairly convinced of though, is that it isn't a rebadged Puch frame, as I've got a Puch 3-speed to compare it with, and whilst also a budget market bike the Puch has a stiffer & more solidly built frame, and slightly decorative lugs. The lugs on my burgundy 3-speed remind me of solder-feed copper plumbing fittings more than anything!

Gives me a vibe akin to a mid 70's Bridgestone/C Itoh basic model. Like my old bedraggled work bike, recycled, I believe, after a major frame issue.

also with "fake " lugs in front, and rear dropouts spot welded or otherwise joined to the frame.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

USER=56288]@SkipdiverJohn[/USER] nice find , don't think i have seen that kind of lug set up before

I don't recognise it as a Barton frame, does it have a plate brazed on for the rear brake and rack. I guess there are braze ons for the chain guard

Rather oddly, I think I've got to the bottom of the cheapo Astra roadster frame mystery, purely by chance when a google search led to an image of a drop bar racer popping up. When I looked closely it had the same head tube construction and crimped tube ends at the dropouts. I'm now 99% certain that the frame was made by Kalkhoff in Germany.
Not really the country of origin I had expected either, TBH.

 

[biggs682]

Another one solved

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Well, I can't be certain, but the construction looks the same. I've also been wondering about the construction of some of the cheaper Peugeots with the Carbolite 103 road frames. I was inspecting a colleague's one the other day and noticed it doesn't have external lugs yet doesn't have visible seam welded joints either.

 

[midlife]

Wasn't that some odd construction with internal sleeves and then a large electric current was passed through to "weld" the frame joints?