# What to do with a E-bike nobber



## Levo-Lon (3 Feb 2020)

As i leave work on my bike, cycle-footpath route 2 metres wide. 
Nearly every time i get passed by a tozzpot on a de-restricted E-bike. 

Id guess 28-30 mph and ridden with no care. 
This path has many blind cross junctions a care home several schools ranging from yr one to seniors. 

I had a chat to a young PC in her van who told me to go 101route.. I said i could film him but she advised me not to, as this may cause him to react angrily... Well he's making me very angry so bring it on

Now this bloke is about 50 yrs old, I've shouted at him to slow down but he doesn't take any notice. 

So what to do before he kills or badly injures someone. 

I'm tempted to do him with a bucket of soapy water so he crashes and hurts himself, i really feel that would be a fair punishment for this ahole. But he could end up dead so obviously cant do that. 
Blocking his path would mean confrontation and probably a battle. 

Whats the CC general consensus on getting this nobber stopped.


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## glasgowcyclist (3 Feb 2020)

Report to police and let them deal with it. I don’t know why the cop told you to call 101, she should have taken the relevant details from you directly. He appears to have a predictable routine so should be easy enough for them to collar.


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## Smudge (3 Feb 2020)

Report it. Its no different to someone riding an unregistered, uninsured motorcycle or moped.


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## Blue Hills (3 Feb 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Report to police and let them deal with it. I don’t know why the cop told you to call 101, she should have taken the relevant details from you directly. He appears to have a predictable routine so should be easy enough for them to collar.


Yes - and keep a good record of the report.
If the cops do nothing and then he is involved in an incident they aren't going to look too clever.


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## Levo-Lon (3 Feb 2020)

Smudge said:


> Report it. Its no different to someone riding an unregistered, uninsured motorcycle or moped.




I think what the PC was thinking was report it, but then said it may take an hr for a response

It needs a trafic cop on a bike to catch this fecker


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Feb 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> I think what the PC was thinking was report it, but then said it may take an hr for a response
> 
> It needs a trafic cop on a bike to catch this fecker



A very fit traffic copper....


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## Smudge (3 Feb 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> I think what the PC was thinking was report it, but then said it may take an hr for a response
> 
> It needs a trafic cop on a bike to catch this fecker



These non road legal ebikes are getting too commonplace now, they really need to be addressed by the police. Even more so as they're not just being used on the public highway, but on cycle paths where pedestrians are.
The guy on a illegal ebike that hit and killed that Turkish woman in London, should be on trial sometime this month. Maybe that will put the spotlight on the situation of these illegal ebikes.


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## Levo-Lon (3 Feb 2020)

Smudge said:


> These non road legal ebikes are getting too commonplace now, they really need to be addressed by the police. Even more so as they're not just being used on the public highway, but on cycle paths where pedestrians are.
> The guy on a illegal ebike that hit and killed that Turkish woman in London, should be on trial sometime this month. Maybe that will put the spotlight on the situation of these illegal ebikes.




That's what's going to happen here, probably a child. 
So many blind junctions 6 foot fences and hedges.. People walking dogs on long leads. 
The copper asked if he had number plates, no i replied that would be too easy..


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## Levo-Lon (3 Feb 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> A very fit traffic copper....



I was thinking BMW 1200cc


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## Smudge (3 Feb 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> That's what's going to happen here, probably a child.
> So many blind junctions 6 foot fences and hedges.. People walking dogs on long leads.
> The copper asked if he had number plates, no i replied that would be too easy..



Trouble is, the police are unlikely to have the manpower to police these cycle paths, or put officers on duty in the vicinity waiting to catch this guy.
So he will probably carry on getting away with it, until he hits someone. Even then its likely he will just ride away from any collision scene.


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## Drago (3 Feb 2020)

Report it. Presumably hes in the same area at the same time every day? If the feds haven't stopped him within a week demand to know why - they'd be all over an unlicensed or uninsured car driver, and users of other motor vehicles shouldn't be treated any differently.


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## Levo-Lon (3 Feb 2020)

Drago said:


> Report it. Presumably hes in the same area at the same time every day? If the feds haven't stopped him within a week demand to know why - they'd be all over an unlicensed or uninsured car driver, and users of other motor vehicles shouldn't be treated any differently.



Well we can but hope, I'm still thinking a piece of wood across his mush as he passes me like a mad fecker.. So tempted..

He frightened a young mum and her kid tonight, i shouted at him again, said to the young lady, im on to him. 
Ill try the ood bill tomorrow and get our local residents association involved


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## Vantage (3 Feb 2020)

Big stick through the front wheel spokes... 
That'll slow him down a bit.


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## Levo-Lon (4 Feb 2020)

Vantage said:


> Big stick through the front wheel spokes...
> That'll slow him down a bit.



 knowing my luck he'll run me over trying..


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## annedonnelly (4 Feb 2020)

It's no different to the blokes on scrambler motorbikes that i see on cyclepaths. i report via 101 and I know the police would love to catch them - obviously it's difficult for them to be in the right place at the right time. I must admit I get sick of reporting them & tend to avoid the places they're most likely to be.

I've nearly been hit by some of them & dread to think what the outcome will be if they meet a toddler on the path. That's why I continue to report them - at least if something does happen it's not because I ignored it  

If this bloke is in the same place everyday he should be easier to track down.


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## Levo-Lon (4 Feb 2020)

annedonnelly said:


> It's no different to the blokes on scrambler motorbikes that i see on cyclepaths. i report via 101 and I know the police would love to catch them - obviously it's difficult for them to be in the right place at the right time. I must admit I get sick of reporting them & tend to avoid the places they're most likely to be.
> 
> I've nearly been hit by some of them & dread to think what the outcome will be if they meet a toddler on the path. That's why I continue to report them - at least if something does happen it's not because I ignored it
> 
> If this bloke is in the same place everyday he should be easier to track down.




The big difference is this is a silent peril.
Its a dont need to pedal ebike so basically he has a quick pedal to get it moving then the motor does the rest.

You only hear him when he's about 3 metres behind you..jump out your skin surprise!! 
Think electric cars, silent bar tyre noise.


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## rogerzilla (4 Feb 2020)

Find out where he works and write to his employer.


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## Levo-Lon (4 Feb 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> Find out where he works and write to his employer.



If only I could catch him


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## Phaeton (4 Feb 2020)

Went passed McDonald's the other Sunday morning, okay I admit it I called in for a Sausage McMuffin, in the car park was 2 unmarked Police cars, 1 Transit type van, 2 marked Police cars, 2 Police marked quads, 2 Police marked off road motorbikes & about 10-12 officers not quite sure where they were going to target suspect an area of the old pit top frequented by lads on crossers.


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## icowden (4 Feb 2020)

If you have got some sort of camera, I think it would be worth getting footage and submitting it to the force. If you keep submitting, sooner or later they will send someone out to lie in wait, especially if you can demonstrate that its a regular occurrence at the same time of day.


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## Drago (4 Feb 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Went passed McDonald's the other Sunday morning, okay I admit it I called in for a Sausage McMuffin, in the car park was 2 unmarked Police cars, 1 Transit type van, 2 marked Police cars, 2 Police marked quads, 2 Police marked off road motorbikes & about 10-12 officers not quite sure where they were going to target suspect an area of the old pit top frequented by lads on crossers.


Perish the thought that a bobby takes the refreshment break he's lawfully entitled to. 

Despite the Home Office encouraging officers to do so, I never took my refs in public because of judgemental people who think that officers should go 12 hours without eating.


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## Phaeton (4 Feb 2020)

Drago said:


> Perish the thought that a bobby takes the refreshment break he's lawfully entitled to.
> 
> Despite the Home Office encouraging officers to do so, I never took my refs in public because of judgemental people who think that officers should go 12 hours without eating.


It's interesting that you took that view from what I put, I had never considered it, to me it was a logical meeting place on the bypass on the edge of town so that all the arrivees could get there easily as I suspect it was a joint operation potentially from different forces.


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## Levo-Lon (4 Feb 2020)

Drago said:


> Perish the thought that a bobby takes the refreshment break he's lawfully entitled to.
> 
> Despite the Home Office encouraging officers to do so, I never took my refs in public because of judgemental people who think that officers should go 12 hours without eating.




I don't think that was inferred mr @Drago
He was thinking about a purge of pit bike riders ,another menace we have.


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## Levo-Lon (4 Feb 2020)

icowden said:


> If you have got some sort of camera, I think it would be worth getting footage and submitting it to the force. If you keep submitting, sooner or later they will send someone out to lie in wait, especially if you can demonstrate that its a regular occurrence at the same time of day.




Possible with my dash cam..
I could record him with that but wether that would give any real proof? He wears a yellow coat and a woolly hat , but accessing speed ? Behaviour? it's a bit difficult, I think a copper with a speed gun would be the ideal solution..proof and then the illegal bike, court and confiscation.


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## Phaeton (4 Feb 2020)

Paint tin & a tape measure, white line at start white line in 100 metres, film him between the 2 lines, from the display work out the speed.

I am very surprised that you cannot buy speed guns, or there isn't an app for a phone, I see hundreds of situations where one would be useful.


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## fossyant (4 Feb 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> If only I could catch him



Tisk tisk, you know the answer is to chase him down - get your best road bike out !


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## mustang1 (4 Feb 2020)

I agree with reporting to police etc but in the interests of conversation, I will play devils advocate. 

If this guy was riding a normal bike at 25nph but slowing down where the blind spots are, would that be ok?
Does the guy on the speed derestricted e-bike slow down for the blind spots?
Is this a problem of e-bikes, or just not slowing down at appropriate times, regardless of bike type?


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## Pale Rider (4 Feb 2020)

I wouldn't worry too much about recording his speed.

Apart from anything else, there is no marked speed limit on a path for him to break.

Footage of him whizzing past - if you can get it safely - should be enough.

Likely charge is wanton and furious cycling, or possibly one of the Road Traffic Act offences such as careless or dangerous driving.

It will be up to the court - almost certainly a panel of three magistrates - to decide if the charge is made out.

Which it will be - if your footage clearly demonstrates he is riding irresponsibly.


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## Phaeton (4 Feb 2020)

mustang1 said:


> If this guy was riding a normal bike at 25nph but slowing down where the blind spots are, would that be ok?


I suspect not


mustang1 said:


> Does the guy on the speed derestricted e-bike slow down for the blind spots?


I suspect not


mustang1 said:


> Is this a problem of e-bikes, or just not slowing down at appropriate times, regardless of bike type?


Yes, there are some right arrogant self righteous cyclists out there, although I suspect when they become a pedestrian, driver, co-worker their attitude doesn't change


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## Milkfloat (4 Feb 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I am very surprised that you cannot buy speed guns, or there isn't an app for a phone, I see hundreds of situations where one would be useful.



You can and there are plenty of apps.


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## twentysix by twentyfive (4 Feb 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Went passed McDonald's the other Sunday morning, okay I admit it I called in for a Sausage McMuffin, in the car park was 2 unmarked Police cars, 1 Transit type van, 2 marked Police cars, 2 Police marked quads, 2 Police marked off road motorbikes & about 10-12 officers not quite sure where they were going to target suspect an area of the old pit top frequented by lads on crossers.


Nah - they were only there for the donuts


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## RichK (4 Feb 2020)

I got hit by a youth on a (motor) scooter on an off road path. He was charged with "due care & attention" (along with no insurance, no licence etc). If this over 250W then I'd expect similar.


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## Levo-Lon (4 Feb 2020)

mustang1 said:


> I agree with reporting to police etc but in the interests of conversation, I will play devils advocate.
> 
> If this guy was riding a normal bike at 25nph but slowing down where the blind spots are, would that be ok?
> Does the guy on the speed derestricted e-bike slow down for the blind spots?
> Is this a problem of e-bikes, or just not slowing down at appropriate times, regardless of bike type?




I take your point, and an Ahole is aAhole regardless..

But in this context it's a large ish man on a heavy bike doing a very unsafe speed.

After talking to a few locals he's been noted and a accident waiting to happen.


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## Levo-Lon (4 Feb 2020)

RichK said:


> I got hit by a youth on a (motor) scooter on an off road path. He was charged with "due care & attention" (along with no insurance, no licence etc). If this over 250W then I'd expect similar.



Not at all funny, and I think this would be the same charge, unlicensed no insurance ect ect


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## Smudge (4 Feb 2020)

mustang1 said:


> I agree with reporting to police etc but in the interests of conversation, I will play devils advocate.
> 
> If this guy was riding a normal bike at 25nph but slowing down where the blind spots are, would that be ok?
> Does the guy on the speed derestricted e-bike slow down for the blind spots?
> Is this a problem of e-bikes, or just not slowing down at appropriate times, regardless of bike type?



It takes a very fit cyclist to consistently ride at those speeds. The thing with illegal ebikes, is that anyone on them can ride at those fast speeds. Some with an illegal ebike may ride cautiously, but i suspect that most wont, seeing as they're already happy to break the law by using an illegal ebike.


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## sheddy (4 Feb 2020)

Can you record him (from a long distance) with a panning video shot ?


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## Racing roadkill (4 Feb 2020)

It’s very easy to mod a lot of the e-bikes available with something as simple as a wheel size mis calibration. I’ve had ‘generic food delivery company’ riders, on e bikes overtaking me, in a 40 limit, whilst I’ve been doing 40, in my car. It’s even more of a problem if it’s a park, cycle lane, and I’m on my bike.


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## Levo-Lon (4 Feb 2020)

sheddy said:


> Can you record him (from a long distance) with a panning video shot ?



Hmmm I'm reading that as a camera you can cook with I'm no David Bailey


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## Levo-Lon (4 Feb 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> It’s very easy to mod a lot of the e-bikes available with something as simple as a wheel size mis calibration. I’ve had ‘generic food delivery company’ riders, in e bikes overtaking me, in a 40 limit, whilst I’ve been doing 40, in my car. It’s even more of a problem if it’s a park, cycle lane, and I’m on my bike.



Serious projectile, at 40 bloody hell ..


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## snorri (4 Feb 2020)

Vantage said:


> Big stick through the front wheel spokes...That'll slow him down a bit.


...and have you in court before the ebiker.


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## Racing roadkill (4 Feb 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> Serious projectile, at 40 bloody hell ..


I think it was one of these.






Only just an e bike, but it was pretty quick.


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## Pale Rider (4 Feb 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> I think it was one of these.
> View attachment 503267
> 
> 
> Only just an e bike, but it was pretty quick.



Looks to be something like a Stealth Bomber:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbM5YgAys80


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## glasgowcyclist (4 Feb 2020)

@Levo-Lon You're a resourceful guy, why not build your own EMP generator and knock out his motor?


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## Racing roadkill (4 Feb 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Looks to be something like a Stealth Bomber:
> 
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbM5YgAys80



That looks about right.


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## PK99 (4 Feb 2020)

mustang1 said:


> I agree with reporting to police etc but in the interests of conversation, I will play devils advocate.
> 
> If this guy was riding a normal bike at 25nph but slowing down where the blind spots are, would that be ok?
> Does the guy on the speed derestricted e-bike slow down for the blind spots?
> Is this a problem of e-bikes, or just not slowing down at appropriate times, regardless of bike type?



Unlikely to be able to keep up 20-30mph (see OP) on a normal bike!


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## Levo-Lon (4 Feb 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> @Levo-Lon You're a resourceful guy, why not build your own EMP generator and knock out his motor?




That would knock my levo out too


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## glasgowcyclist (4 Feb 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> That would knock my levo out too



What’s a levo?


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## Levo-Lon (4 Feb 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> What’s a levo?




An ebike  but this one is ridden responsibly... But i can be a nobber at times


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## glasgowcyclist (4 Feb 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> An ebike  but this one is ridden responsibly... But i can be a nobber at times
> 
> 
> View attachment 503271


Ooh, that’s nice.


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## Levo-Lon (4 Feb 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Ooh, that’s nice.




Thank you, its bloody fabulous. 
I love my Specialized Epic XC bike but that's for the nice weather and long evening rides out with son in law, we usually need to climb fences gates ect so taking a E-bike isn't as practical.


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## classic33 (4 Feb 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Paint tin & a tape measure, white line at start white line in 100 metres, film him between the 2 lines, from the display work out the speed.
> 
> I am very surprised that you cannot buy speed guns, or there isn't an app for a phone, I see hundreds of situations where one would be useful.


https://freeappsforme.com/radar-gun-apps/


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## Ubarrow (4 Feb 2020)

A couple of things here, are you sure it’s an illegal bike. I have a legal ebike and often ride at 20-25mph (obviously not like this guy..........)
And, if it is illegal then the police don’t need to catch him speeding, just riding it. Having taken possession of the bike I’m not sure how they would go about checking and measuring etc, and I suspect they don’t really know either - which is probably why you are having difficulty interesting them.


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## ozboz (4 Feb 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> I think it was one of these.
> View attachment 503267
> 
> 
> Only just an e bike, but it was pretty quick.


I witnessed a very similar bike to this in Richmond Park , the rider was blaring his way along the shared ped-cycle paths, at first sight I thought it was Kawasaki or similar dirt bike , it needs looking before some person of worse child gets whacked ,


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## Levo-Lon (4 Feb 2020)

Ubarrow said:


> A couple of things here, are you sure it’s an illegal bike. I have a legal ebike and often ride at 20-25mph (obviously not like this guy..........)
> And, if it is illegal then the police don’t need to catch him speeding, just riding it. Having taken possession of the bike I’m not sure how they would go about checking and measuring etc, and I suspect they don’t really know either - which is probably why you are having difficulty interesting them.




He doesn't pedal it, quick pedal burst then its off.. Pedals still. 

My ebike and ive had 2 need pedalling all the time to be assisted upto 15.5mph then your on your own. 
If I'm riding along this cycle-pedestrian route at my usual 15-18mph this guy comes past like im hardly moving, seriously quick and is in the distance in seconds. 


I hung around after work to confront him but he didn't show. 
I was in my van so not on thecycle way, maybe i should drive after him


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## MrGrumpy (4 Feb 2020)

Ubarrow said:


> A couple of things here, are you sure it’s an illegal bike. I have a legal ebike and often ride at 20-25mph (obviously not like this guy..........)
> And, if it is illegal then the police don’t need to catch him speeding, just riding it. Having taken possession of the bike I’m not sure how they would go about checking and measuring etc, and I suspect they don’t really know either - which is probably why you are having difficulty interesting them.


Correct me if I'm wrong here but I thought all assistance cut out at 15mph on these E bikes ? So going by your quote of riding at 20-25mph I assume that's under your own steam and on the flat or downhill ? Which is fair enough however I've yet to meet an E bike that can ride faster than me on the flat or downhill ? Thats not trying hard neither, they just seem to slow down ?? Maybe its the type of motor in use ?


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## roadrash (4 Feb 2020)

@MrGrumpy check out the video that @Pale Rider posted, you will see how fast they can go
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbM5YgAys80


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## Mark pallister (4 Feb 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> Find out where he works and write to his employer.


What’s it got to do with his employer?


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## MrGrumpy (4 Feb 2020)

Yep I've seen that before but surely that's not what we are taking about here ? If we are, I'd be getting in touch with the police myself as that ridden at that speed on a path is utterly idiotic. Seriously if you want to ride that fast buy a motor bike ?


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## Smudge (4 Feb 2020)

Ubarrow said:


> A couple of things here, are you sure it’s an illegal bike. I have a legal ebike and often ride at 20-25mph (obviously not like this guy..........)
> And, if it is illegal then the police don’t need to catch him speeding, just riding it. Having taken possession of the bike I’m not sure how they would go about checking and measuring etc, and I suspect they don’t really know either - which is probably why you are having difficulty interesting them.



What ebike do you have ?


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## Pale Rider (4 Feb 2020)

Mark pallister said:


> What’s it got to do with his employer?



Nothing, but it's a good move tactically.

If you fear someone won't listen to you, get someone to tell them who they will listen to.

I saw a lorry driver chuck a food wrapper from his moving cab.

I contacted the name of the company written on the door.

The transport manager replied to apologise, and to assure me the driver had been warned.


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## Levo-Lon (4 Feb 2020)

roadrash said:


> @MrGrumpy check out the video that @Pale Rider posted, you will see how fast they can go
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbM5YgAys80




It's not far off that..but not one of them.
It does have a big motor in the rear wheel tho


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## Mark pallister (4 Feb 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Nothing, but it's a good move tactically.
> 
> If you fear someone won't listen to you, get someone to tell them who they will listen to.
> 
> ...


Find out where he lives then and tell his mam 
the lorry driver was presumably in a works van during works time 
this is just a bloke riding his bike it’s got absolutely nothing at all to do with his employer


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## Levo-Lon (4 Feb 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Nothing, but it's a good move tactically.
> 
> If you fear someone won't listen to you, get someone to tell them who they will listen to.
> 
> ...




I reported a van driver to his manager when he turned up a one way road for a short cut to the little close I was working in. missed me by a few mm, he said I shouldn't be in the road....but there isn't a footpath mate and that was a one way with a big sign....
Bloody delivery driver for yodel.

His boss hopefully told him off but who knows,there all about targets ,I just didn't know I was one


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## Smudge (4 Feb 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> I reported a van driver to his manager when he turned up a one way road for a short cut to the little close I was working in. missed me by a few mm, he said I shouldn't be in the road....but there isn't a footpath mate and that was a one way with a big sign....
> Bloody delivery driver for yodel.
> 
> His boss hopefully told him off but who knows,there all about targets ,I just didn't know I was one



I order a fair amount of stuff from the net. Yodel are the most incompetent courier service i've experienced. If their drivers are anywhere near as hopeless at driving, i definitely dont want to meet them on the road.


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## rogerzilla (4 Feb 2020)

Mark pallister said:


> What’s it got to do with his employer?


The police aren't likely to do anything but employers generally don't like any of their employees, if identified as such, doing anything illegal. Many people have been sacked for a racist tweet or a pub fight, neither on work time.


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## Racing roadkill (4 Feb 2020)

MrGrumpy said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong here but I thought all assistance cut out at 15mph on these E bikes ? So going by your quote of riding at 20-25mph I assume that's under your own steam and on the flat or downhill ? Which is fair enough however I've yet to meet an E bike that can ride faster than me on the flat or downhill ? Thats not trying hard neither, they just seem to slow down ?? Maybe its the type of motor in use ?


Using drill motors is a popular hack.


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## DRM (4 Feb 2020)

Surely if it can go at the speeds claimed without pedalling, then it is an electric motorcycle in the eyes of the law, therefore it’s not registered, not insured, not being used with a crash helmet and being ridden on the path, so the police should be extremely interested in having a word with the rider of this mechanically propelled vehicle, shows a lack of knowledge & outright laziness from the plod who the op reported it to.


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## Smudge (5 Feb 2020)

DRM said:


> Surely if it can go at the speeds claimed without pedalling, then it is an electric motorcycle in the eyes of the law, therefore it’s not registered, not insured, not being used with a crash helmet and being ridden on the path, so the police should be extremely interested in having a word with the rider of this mechanically propelled vehicle, shows a lack of knowledge & outright laziness from the plod who the op reported it to.



I'm pretty sure the police are well aware of illegal ebikes being used on the road and cycle paths But with government cutbacks on policing, resulting in less manpower to deal with it, then it just cant and wont be enforced.
When a pedestrian is hit and killed by an ebike, then the police then have no choice but to investigate whether an ebike is road legal or not.
Which is a pretty shoot way of doing things. Money should be spent on preventing death, not just on investigating when it does.


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## Pale Rider (5 Feb 2020)

Mark pallister said:


> this is just a bloke riding his bike it’s got absolutely nothing at all to do with his employer



Quite right, but it does have everything to do with getting him to modify his behaviour.

A word with his employer, or his mam, could be the best way to do that.


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## Pale Rider (5 Feb 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> It's not far off that..but not one of them.
> It does have a big motor in the rear wheel tho



For what it's worth, it sounds like a high powered direct drive motor, often called a pancake motor because of its large diameter.

They are also very quiet - something else you mentioned.

Lots of power, but next to no torque.

This makes them useless for general ebike use because they will not climb anything remotely steep.

What they will do - after being wound up by the rider - is go fast on the level.


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## Mark pallister (5 Feb 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> The police aren't likely to do anything but employers generally don't like any of their employees, if identified as such, doing anything illegal. Many people have been sacked for a racist tweet or a pub fight, neither on work time.


 I bet no one has ever been sacked for riding there push bike fast


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## Pale Rider (5 Feb 2020)

Mark pallister said:


> I bet no one has ever been sacked for riding there push bike fast



No, but there, sorry, their job prospects have been curtailed by a spell in the big house.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...jailed-for-18-months-over-death-of-pedestrian


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## fossyant (5 Feb 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> I think it was one of these.
> View attachment 503267
> 
> 
> Only just an e bike, but it was pretty quick.



Last time I was at Llandegla there were two lads on these (fortunately I only saw them at the jet wash). It's not a pedal bike, more an electric MX bike.


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## Levo-Lon (5 Feb 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> For what it's worth, it sounds like a high powered direct drive motor, often called a pancake motor because of its large diameter.
> 
> They are also very quiet - something else you mentioned.
> 
> ...



Yes, exactly that, it's flat terrain. 
He has a quick pedal and then the motor takes off..
This guy is around my age , 50 + from the brief look I get.. he really should know better.


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## Levo-Lon (5 Feb 2020)

fossyant said:


> Last time I was at Llandegla there were two lads on these (fortunately I only saw them at the jet wash). It's not a pedal bike, more an electric MX bike.



Bit naughty on a bike trail,way to fast.
And very likely to hurt someone.


I use my levo to keep up with son in law, he's just younger and a damn site fitter.
I never lead as he is on his normal mtb


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## mjr (5 Feb 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> An ebike  but this one is ridden responsibly... But i can be a nobber at times
> 
> 
> View attachment 503271


Looks to be six reflectors short of legal for night. Hope you only use it daytimes!

Glass houses and so on


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## mjr (5 Feb 2020)

Smudge said:


> I order a fair amount of stuff from the net. Yodel are the most incompetent courier service i've experienced. If their drivers are anywhere near as hopeless at driving, i definitely dont want to meet them on the road.


You never had Initial City Link then?


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## mjr (5 Feb 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> No, but there, sorry, their job prospects have been curtailed by a spell in the big house.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...jailed-for-18-months-over-death-of-pedestrian


More that he didn't stop, was riding an unroadworthy bike and said some very very unwise words.


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## Smudge (5 Feb 2020)

mjr said:


> You never had Initial City Link then?



Not sure if i've had the pleasure of them.


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## mustang1 (5 Feb 2020)

PK99 said:


> Unlikely to be able to keep up 20-30mph (see OP) on a normal bike!


You and the other person are right and I agree but my point is you can still ride at inappropriate speeds on a road bike. I'm not sure this is an e-bike problem but a nobber problem. 

It's a bit like if some one has a 200mph car and someone else has a 100mph car but both drive at 95mph.


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## glasgowcyclist (5 Feb 2020)

mustang1 said:


> You and the other person are right and I agree but my point is you can still ride at inappropriate speeds on a road bike. I'm not sure this is an e-bike problem but a nobber problem.
> 
> It's a bit like if some one has a 200mph car and someone else has a 100mph car but both drive at 95mph.



It's a nobber problem but the unassisted nobber presents a danger for a limited time, even if quite fit, whereas the assisted nobber is a danger for far longer.


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## DRM (5 Feb 2020)

Smudge said:


> I'm pretty sure the police are well aware of illegal ebikes being used on the road and cycle paths But with government cutbacks on policing, resulting in less manpower to deal with it, then it just cant and wont be enforced.
> When a pedestrian is hit and killed by an ebike, then the police then have no choice but to investigate whether an ebike is road legal or not.
> Which is a pretty shoot way of doing things. Money should be spent on preventing death, not just on investigating when it does.


To be honest, when it comes to the in’s & out’s of what vehicle is legally allowed to use what type of path the police are pretty clueless, I once rang to complain about 2x motocross bikes being driven stupidly fast up a footpath at the side of next doors house, the plod that was on the phone didn’t have a clue that a mechanically propelled vehicle isn’t allowed on a footpath, he went very quiet when he checked the reg numbers, they were the police’s finest chasers of pit bikes on fully liveried police motorbikes, who had to walk them backwards down the path due to crush bars at the top to stop just this type of behaviour


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## Mike_P (5 Feb 2020)

MrGrumpy said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong here but I thought all assistance cut out at 15mph on these E bikes ?


Depends on the bike/motor. The TSDZ2 coversion for example has firmware that allows a max speed of between 9.3 and 28. The default is the legal 15.5.


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## Landsurfer (5 Feb 2020)

My local bike shop .. J E James ..sells a wide range of "off road" e bikes .... maximum power MTB's ..... they are sold with out legislation as they are off road only use .... maybe it's time for the relevant authorities to take the NI type approach and stick plates on these Motorbikes ?


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## Pale Rider (5 Feb 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> My local bike shop .. J E James ..sells a wide range of "off road" e bikes .... maximum power MTB's ..... they are sold with out legislation as they are off road only use .... maybe it's time for the relevant authorities to take the NI type approach and stick plates on these Motorbikes ?



'Off road' is often said but doesn't really work for using an illegal ebike.

It has to be private land to which the public has no access - that means fenced off, and with a gate which is preferably locked.

Realistically, that is limited to the back garden - for those of us who have an enclosed one.

Worth remembering it's not illegal to possess such a bike, or to buy and sell one.

It's only illegal to use it.


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## DRM (5 Feb 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> 'Off road' is often said but doesn't really work for using an illegal ebike.
> 
> It has to be private land to which the public has no access - that means fenced off, and with a gate which is preferably locked.
> 
> ...


My understanding is it’s only legal if used on public roads with a registration plate, valid insurance, taxed and whilst wearing a crash helmet, as they are classed as a motorcycle, however the people who buy such things are never going to do that, also thinking about it, they should also be type approved as a motorcycle, which I bet they aren’t either.


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## MrGrumpy (6 Feb 2020)

I would imagine at some point sooner or later they will land onto the radar of the authorities especially if going at warp speed on paths.


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## dodgy (6 Feb 2020)

fossyant said:


> Last time I was at Llandegla there were two lads on these (fortunately I only saw them at the jet wash). It's not a pedal bike, more an electric MX bike.



They have an e-bike policy which excludes bikes with more than 250w power http://oneplanetadventure.com/use-of-e-bikes/
Always worth telling 'Badger' (ask at the counter for him) if you have concerns about inappropriate e-bike usage, they're trying to strike the right balance up there.


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## Electric_Andy (6 Feb 2020)

It's still just a matter of poor policing and over-stretched police forces. Many people, police included, wouldn't know at a glance the difference between a legal e-assist MTB and a 4000w e-MTB. I'd have thought it would be an obvious stop if someone was seen doing 30mph up a hill, but you never hear of anyone getting done for it unless they've killed a pedestrian. 

Same reason why there are loads of 2 stroke motocross bikes with L plates knocking about; the police assume that becasue they are 125s then they are learner legal. I saw a KTM 125 SX with L plates the other day, which makes 38bhp (the limit is 14bhp for learners). In fact I have seen this bike on my commute for quite a few weeks so they presumably haven't been pulled yet.


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## Levo-Lon (6 Feb 2020)

mjr said:


> Looks to be six reflectors short of legal for night. Hope you only use it daytimes!
> 
> Glass houses and so on



It was supplied like that, not that I would have reflectors on a cycle way.
Plus if someone cant see my retina burner light it wouldn't matter about what's in my spokes


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## Levo-Lon (6 Feb 2020)

Electric_Andy said:


> It's still just a matter of poor policing and over-stretched police forces. Many people, police included, wouldn't know at a glance the difference between a legal e-assist MTB and a 4000w e-MTB. I'd have thought it would be an obvious stop if someone was seen doing 30mph up a hill, but you never hear of anyone getting done for it unless they've killed a pedestrian.
> 
> Same reason why there are loads of 2 stroke motocross bikes with L plates knocking about; the police assume that becasue they are 125s then they are learner legal. I saw a KTM 125 SX with L plates the other day, which makes 38bhp (the limit is 14bhp for learners). In fact I have seen this bike on my commute for quite a few weeks so they presumably haven't been pulled yet.




It may have a restriction fitted to the intake.
Usually a washer with a smaller hole so power is reduced.. unless he's off like a scalded cat of course


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## MrGrumpy (6 Feb 2020)

Trek just unveiled a new E bike Domane, top speed 28mph and range of 80miles . Not legal in the EU.....................


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## Electric_Andy (6 Feb 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> It may have a restriction fitted to the intake.
> Usually a washer with a smaller hole so power is reduced.. unless he's off like a scalded cat of course


No it was way over powered, he had the front wheel up and everything


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## mjr (6 Feb 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> It was supplied like that, not that I would have reflectors on a cycle way.
> Plus if someone cant see my retina burner light it wouldn't matter about what's in my spokes


It shouldn't have been supplied like that (Pedal Bicycles Safety Regulations) and reflectors are legally-required on a cycle way too, not spoke reflectors and retina burning lights are illegal (all Road Vehicle Lighting Regs).

If I were you, I would be cautious about complaining too loudly about the lawbreaking of someone else unless you are willing to either make your bike legal or pay the fines if the police do a crackdown in the hope of catching the illegal e-bike.


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## Drago (6 Feb 2020)

Grass him up! My retina searing zillion candlepower search lights are supplementary, in addition to legal obligatory lights, so the feds are welcome to do their worst.


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## dodgy (6 Feb 2020)

As if a few missing reflectors are in the same league of concerns as a derestricted e-bike, basically a moped. I've seen these things also. There's a guy in Hoylake one who zooms down Market Street from time to time, looks like a Moto X bike but with pedals (which he doesn't turn).


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## Pale Rider (6 Feb 2020)

DRM said:


> My understanding is it’s only legal if used on public roads with a registration plate, valid insurance, taxed and whilst wearing a crash helmet, as they are classed as a motorcycle, however the people who buy such things are never going to do that, also thinking about it, they should also be type approved as a motorcycle, which I bet they aren’t either.



Yes, that's the other side of the same coin.

There is an obscure 'taxation' class for low powered electric cycles, although the duty on it is zero.

It is possible to get one type approved on an individual basis, but there's lots of paperwork, and you have to take it to one of only two or three locations in the country where a man from the ministry is available to inspect it.

The approved bike - with a rear number plate - can then only be ridden where you can also ride a motorbike or a car.

It's a pointless exercise, a petrol moped would be far superior in all respects - faster, cheaper, better range, and probably lower maintenance.


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## Slipperdiff (6 Feb 2020)

I spoke to an e-bike manufacturer on his stand at the Silverstone Classic last year who said that their company were supplying derestricted e-bikes for the Police to evaluate. Apparently they were identified as being suitable for chasing down nuisance moped and scooter riders and the guy said the top speed was around 50 mph.
Hope this reckless e-biker is not a policeman!


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## dodgy (6 Feb 2020)

I wouldn't trust anything a salesman says.


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## mjr (6 Feb 2020)

Drago said:


> Grass him up! My retina searing zillion candlepower search lights are supplementary, in addition to legal obligatory lights, so the feds are welcome to do their worst.


Doesn't matter if they're supplementary. Even supplementaries are illegal if dazzling.


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## Levo-Lon (7 Feb 2020)

mjr said:


> It shouldn't have been supplied like that (Pedal Bicycles Safety Regulations) and reflectors are legally-required on a cycle way too, not spoke reflectors and retina burning lights are illegal (all Road Vehicle Lighting Regs).
> 
> If I were you, I would be cautious about complaining too loudly about the lawbreaking of someone else unless you are willing to either make your bike legal or pay the fines if the police do a crackdown in the hope of catching the illegal e-bike.




 So a mad man tearing down a cycle path at 30mph isn't a problem but no reflectors are..
Glad you prioritize things ..are you a traffic warden?

Ps the reflectors on my £6000 ebike were in a bag. With a bell. Hth


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## MrGrumpy (7 Feb 2020)

mjr said:


> It shouldn't have been supplied like that (Pedal Bicycles Safety Regulations) and reflectors are legally-required on a cycle way too, not spoke reflectors and retina burning lights are illegal (all Road Vehicle Lighting Regs).
> 
> If I were you, I would be cautious about complaining too loudly about the lawbreaking of someone else unless you are willing to either make your bike legal or pay the fines if the police do a crackdown in the hope of catching the illegal e-bike.


Better than no lights though ! Plus its probably about time the laws in this case were looked at anyway. Its digressing , back onto the dodgy ebikes again


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## Threevok (7 Feb 2020)

mjr said:


> Doesn't matter if they're supplementary. Even supplementaries are illegal if dazzling.



Not off road though, surely ?

I hope not. I need my (ebay claimed) combined 44,000 lumens to spot ninja dog walkers, their black dogs and optional black extendable leads.


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## CanucksTraveller (7 Feb 2020)

Mail order bikes generally come with the reflectors in a bag to be put on during the build / setup, and that's the retailer covered so long as they supply them and tell the buyer it's a requirement. 
I admit, I have zero reflectors on my road bike, I never bothered putting them on (largely because it never, ever goes out at night). But I did receive them, plus an instruction to fit them. 

It is of course a question of priority isn't it, no-reflectors-Levo is unquestionably less bad than e-bike nobber, e-bike nobber is less bad than gangs of feral kids riding unregistered petrol motorbikes around footpaths and parks, and so on. The squeakiest wheel gets the oil, I guess there are many squeakier wheels than e-bike nobber in the eyes of the local police.


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## fossyant (7 Feb 2020)

We had a hydrogen powered bike in our building this week. Big gas bottle where the battery would be (neatly done within the frame). Cost £6k.. for a shopper, with cheap suspension forks, no-name cranks, bottom end Shimano hydraulic brakes (not even Deore). 

The aim with the bike is for business, like delivery companies, as the refilling infrastructure won't be cheap, but it's an instant recharge and 120 miles on a fill.

The bike still offended my eyes, so I refused a ride, despite my colleagues trying to persuade me, knowing full well of my accident rate (PS I'm referred to as a legend at work - probably due to me surviving a (badly) broken spine and still riding)


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## fossyant (7 Feb 2020)

Threevok said:


> Not off road though, surely ?



Doesn't matter off road, so long as you turn them down before you fry someone's eyes.

PS Chinese lumen, divide by 10 ! at least, or about 44 in your case.


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## mjr (7 Feb 2020)

Threevok said:


> Not off road though, surely ?
> 
> I hope not. I need my (ebay claimed) combined 44,000 lumens to spot ninja dog walkers, their black dogs and optional black extendable leads.


Depends what sort of off road. Cycleways are roads for purpose of the lighting regs. MTB forest tracks aren't.


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## mjr (7 Feb 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> So a mad man tearing down a cycle path at 30mph isn't a problem but no reflectors are..
> Glad you prioritize things ..are you a traffic warden?


I never said it wasn't a problem. I just suggested you make your bike legal because if the police do a London-style crackdown, nobber will lose his e-bike but you will be fined a bit too.


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