# Dahon v. Brompton for touring



## Low Roller (1 Dec 2014)

I have just bought a fairly modern 3 speed Brompton from a junk shop. I already have a Dahon Mu kitted out for touring but thought I would try a Brompton because they seem to get rave reviews and have quite ardent supporters.

I have been out for a ride on the Brompton , including up a steep hill and I have to say that I much prefer the Dahon, but I am very impressed with the folding ability of the Brompton.

I don’t think I have given the Brompton a sufficient trial yet though and have a feeling that because I am 6 feet tall it may be that I need the longer seat post (£16.50). This will have the effect of giving me more leg room and pushing the seat further back.

I have a couple of questions. I notice that the official rear rack costs over £104 and additional roller wheels are also advised( £25). How do those cheaper, freestanding clip on rear racks fare in comparison?

Also, I see that you can get front cranks with less teeth. Presumably it would be better to fit one on these if you need to carry camping gear?

The alternative for me is just to use the Dahon for touring and simply keep the Brompton as it is, permanently in the boot of my car.

Any views?


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## shouldbeinbed (1 Dec 2014)

I'm 5'11" and find the brompton ok at the full extension of the standard seatpost, have you checked the pentaclip position? that can give you the best part of another inch leeway top to bottom.
I have been used to Birdys for donkeys years and do know where you're coming from with the ride quality vs Brompton, I'd tested them over the years and never really thought 'wow, I get the hype' But current Birdy needed an expensive overhaul & isn't Gtr Manchester tram friendly so I took the plunge for a new 3 speed S type (without rack) this time last year. With a wee bit of time it becomes a surprisingly nice and civilised place to be pedalling and you can put some decent distances on without being any more uncomfortable than other bikes. I find the standard 3 speed good enough for my amiable pootling up and down my side of the pennines, but many people seem to want the lowered ratio hub gear or to change the front ring down a tooth or so. TBH I run out of top speed before I run out of climbing legs.
I am perfectly happy with it now and have no urgency to find the money anymore to get my Birdy back in fettle. I'm almost embarrassed to say that I've become a Brompton convert after years of metaphorically holding my nose at the machine and people that raved over it.

The rear rack is so expensive because it requires integration with a slightly different from standard rear mudguard, so that comes as part of the package. I assume that the additional rollers mentioned are the easy wheels, more skateboard wheel like than the standard castors and supposedly better for rolling along - No idea, never tried them (I carry mine when folded up), but on the basis 700c wheels will do you better for road munching than 26", I suspect they're a bit more civilised for the type of nice terrain you'd think to wheel the folded bike over.

I'm yet to meet anyone, even selling them, that is a huge fan of the rack though and they are certainly not built to look good & sound a bit of a faff to retro fit. I guess if you've got a bargain on the Brommy and really have a yen to tour it, then the investment would be worth it & I've no doubt at all that the bike would stand up well enough to longer riding, but if you're happy on the Dahon then would you really get the moneys worth out of it & do you want a (albeit not much) bigger Brompton lump in the boot of the car?

I've not tried a clip on rear rack, I figured it would interfere too much with dropping the seatpost and be another thing to carry if needing to fold the bike fully. I'm also wary of the greater width of the Brommy seatposts vs the standard fitting size of the usual clip on ones. Also if it may be a bit too flexy for safely carrying me (13.5 stone) on not the best road surfaces with a laden rack or panniers just hanging off the post too.


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## StuartG (1 Dec 2014)

I am 5'9" with a 32" inside leg. I have the standard post with my Brooks saddle at the highest point on the tube. Fully extended that just works - just. If your legs are longer you will need the telescopic post. Its essential to feel and handling that you sit high on a Brompton. If in doubt get one and try (you can usually return online purchases within 14 days).

Baggage wise - Bromptons are back to front. The best place to carry luggage is on the front block. I tour with the capacious T-Bag which will make a kitchen sink disappear. Its expensive but you soon realise the value. Actually it is cheaper than the rear rack plus any bag - and bigger! Because the block is attached to the frame and not the stem it doesn't wreck the steering. Yes it does feel different but after the first hundred miles the feel becomes the norm and its your old road bike that feels odd. Hence you might not need any rear luggage except a tool bag on the saddle. That means you can still fold the bike even with the luggage on (or detaching it take all of 3 nanoseconds). There are smaller bags for other tasks. I have the shopping basket (on a fully folded bike with eazy-wheels it becomes your in-store shopping trolley) and the mini-O bag.

Gear wise the best thing I ever did to my 2006 Brompton 3-speed was to swop to the smaller chainring. Yes, you lose a bit at the top, but it makes it much easier overall. IMHO Brompton should default to it - the big ring gives newcomers the false impression that they are hard and heavy to ride. Quite the opposite. The nippiness reminds me of when i got my first (real) Mini which could see off motors twice its size.

Finally I fitted Shimano A-530 SPDs. Flat one side when you are popping down to the shops in mufti and clipped the other side which makes it great both in local traffic (being able to lift the pedal at traffic lights) and long distance touring - when positioning and shoe grip makes all the dfference. A Bike for all Reasons(tm)


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## TheDoctor (1 Dec 2014)

Get a T-bag and mounting block. The rack is not worth retrofitting, especially at that price. And Brommies are certainly capable of touring. I'm not long back from ten days in Provence on mine.


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## Brommyboy (2 Dec 2014)

Cycle-camping at its best! The rack and the front block can safely carry about 11 kg each. If you can convert to the 6-speed, it will be even better for camping. Look under the chain stay for a peg near the tensioner, which points down from the stay: the derailleur attaches there.


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## Low Roller (2 Dec 2014)

StuartG said:


> I am 5'9" with a 32" inside leg. I have the standard post with my Brooks saddle at the highest point on the tube. Fully extended that just works - just. If your legs are longer you will need the telescopic post. Its essential to feel and handling that you sit high on a Brompton. If in doubt get one and try (you can usually return online purchases within 14 days).
> 
> Baggage wise - Bromptons are back to front. The best place to carry luggage is on the front block. I tour with the capacious T-Bag which will make a kitchen sink disappear. Its expensive but you soon realise the value. Actually it is cheaper than the rear rack plus any bag - and bigger! Because the block is attached to the frame and not the stem it doesn't wreck the steering. Yes it does feel different but after the first hundred miles the feel becomes the norm and its your old road bike that feels odd. Hence you might not need any rear luggage except a tool bag on the saddle. That means you can still fold the bike even with the luggage on (or detaching it take all of 3 nanoseconds). There are smaller bags for other tasks. I have the shopping basket (on a fully folded bike with eazy-wheels it becomes your in-store shopping trolley) and the mini-O bag.
> 
> ...



Yes. Thanks for that. Isn't it funny how the human body is so different. I am 6 feet with and inside leg about 30. My brother ( the Neanderthal) is about 5'10" feet with a 28 inside leg ( and three stone heavier)

I need to pull up the seat tube a bit further I think. I was worried about over-extending it. I am going to go for the T bag and lower geared front cog.I can borrow the 530's from my ultra galaxy.


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## Low Roller (2 Dec 2014)

Thanks everybody for your really helpful responses.


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## Low Roller (2 Dec 2014)

Brommyboy said:


> View attachment 63083
> 
> 
> Cycle-camping at its best! The rack and the front block can safely carry about 11 kg each. If you can convert to the 6-speed, it will be even better for camping. Look under the chain stay for a peg near the tensioner, which points down from the stay: the derailleur attaches there.


How do you do that? Presumably it is a two speed derailleur? 

You can clearly see I am very good at sums.


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## TheDoctor (2 Dec 2014)

It is exactly that - a 2 speed derailleur. Gives you 6 gears, and they'll be spaced closer together than the 3 you now have - it's like 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5. Sort of filling the gaps and adding a bit more at the top.
The new 6 speeds have a wider ratio hub gear, but fitting that to your one is gonna be expensive!
And what you said in the earlier post about over extending the seat pin - you can't, it's got a built-in stop. If you're the right height, this is advantageous. Extend the seat pin right out, then use the saddle clamp to fine tune the seat height - there's an inch or so of adjustment. Get it right, and it's then set for ever!


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## TheDoctor (2 Dec 2014)

Here's my Brommie in touring guise, on the Nesque Gorge road in Provence. That's a T-Bag on the front :-


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## T4tomo (2 Dec 2014)

Ah that brings back Memories - Nesque gorge not the Tbag. Did you go up Mt Ventoux whilst you were there? Has to be said speeding down the gorge was a lot easier than pedalling up through the forest to the summit.


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## TheDoctor (2 Dec 2014)

Does this answer the question? The road was blocked (presumably by snow) above Chalet Reynard, and I was starting to lose the light. And the will to live, once I realised that I wouldn't be getting hot chocolate and cakes.
It was very cold on the way back down to Sault...


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## rualexander (3 Dec 2014)

The Brompton rear rack can be bought without the mudguard, bungees and wheels for £53, I'm sure the existing mudguard can be adapted to suit. http://brilliantbikes.co.uk/brompton-rear-carrier-bits/881-brompton-rear-carrier-platform.html


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## Low Roller (3 Dec 2014)

TheDoctor said:


> It is exactly that - a 2 speed derailleur. Gives you 6 gears, and they'll be spaced closer together than the 3 you now have - it's like 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5. Sort of filling the gaps and adding a bit more at the top.
> The new 6 speeds have a wider ratio hub gear, but fitting that to your one is gonna be expensive!
> And what you said in the earlier post about over extending the seat pin - you can't, it's got a built-in stop. If you're the right height, this is advantageous. Extend the seat pin right out, then use the saddle clamp to fine tune the seat height - there's an inch or so of adjustment. Get it right, and it's then set for ever!


Perfect. You've saved me £16.50. Sorry Evans.


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## Low Roller (3 Dec 2014)

So this is what I have in mind for either the Brompton or the Dahon. I think if I get the T bag, a lower geared front cog and a QD rack with rucksack this is what I am going to do on the Brompton: ( Pinched this from a website, apologies if I have not made the proper acknowledgements which are beyond my computing ability)

*
London ► Barcelona
*


*

Step 1, travel from London to Paris by Eurostar, leaving London St Pancras at 16:22, arriving Paris Nord at 19:47. Cross Paris by metro or taxi to the Gare d'Austerlitz.

Step 2, take the 21:56 Intercité de Nuit overnight train with couchettes from Paris to Perpignan, arriving at 07:20. Have breakfast in Perpignan.

Step 3, take an S100 high-speed AVE train leaving Perpignan at 10:11 and arriving Figures Vilafant at 10:33, Girona at 10:50 & Barcelona Sants at 11:31.
*
*Barcelona ► London
*


*

Step 1, take the S100 high-speed AVE train leaving Barcelona Sants at 18:35, Girona at 19:16 or Figueres Vilafant at 19:33 and arriving Perpignan at 19:54.

Step 2, take the Intercité de Nuit overnight couchette train leaving Perpignan at 20:45 and arriving Paris Gare d'Austerlitz at 07:23. Cross Paris by metro or taxi to the Gare du Nord.

Step 3, travel from Paris to London by Eurostar. A Eurostar leaves Paris Gare du Nord at 09:13 arriving London St Pancras at 10:39.
*
*How much does it cost? 
*


*

London to Paris starts at £34.50 one-way or £69 return in 2nd class, £97 one-way or £195 return in 1st class. 

Paris to Perpignan starts at £18 each way in a reclining seat, £33 in a 6-berth 2nd class couchette or £57 in a 4-berth 1st class couchette. A couchette is recommended, whatever your budget, for comfort & security. 

Perpignan to Barcelona by TGV starts at £26 each way if you pre-book.
*
*How to buy tickets...
*


*

Step 1, book London to Perpignan and back at www.loco2.com (or use www.eurostar.com then www.capitainetrain.com). Add to your basket. Step 2, then book Perpignan to Barcelona separately at www.loco2.com (or www.capitainetrain.com), add to basket & checkout.

Intercité de Nuit trains have no sleepers, only 4-berth & 6-berth couchettes, but if you want privacy you can book a whole first class 4-berth couchette compartment for sole or dual occupancy, see the Espace Privatif information here for full details. Espace Privatif cannot currently be booked with Loco2, only Capitainetrain."





*


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## Low Roller (3 Dec 2014)

http://www.seat61.com/Spain.htm#London_to_Barcelona_overnight

So I don't offend anyone - that is where the reference comes from.


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## StuartG (3 Dec 2014)

If we are showing off a bit: Here are four Brommies parked at the ferry terminal ready to head 800km south to Bordeaux:







And here is another way of doing it fully tented with a husband and wife team with two Brommies and trailers I met coming the other way on the Canal du Midi:






In total four T-Bags!


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## TheDoctor (4 Dec 2014)

Low Roller said:


> So this is what I have in mind for either the Brompton or the Dahon. I think if I get the T bag, a lower geared front cog and a QD rack with rucksack this is what I am going to do on the Brompton: ( Pinched this from a website, apologies if I have not made the proper acknowledgements which are beyond my computing ability)
> 
> *
> London ► Barcelona
> ...


That'll be from the most excellent seat61 site. I'd certainly take the Brompton over, well, anything if it's going in a couchette. They're cramped enough without getting all snuggly with a bike!


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## Blue Hills (22 Dec 2014)

Brommyboy said:


> View attachment 63083
> 
> 
> Cycle-camping at its best! The rack and the front block can safely carry about 11 kg each. If you can convert to the 6-speed, it will be even better for camping. Look under the chain stay for a peg near the tensioner, which points down from the stay: the derailleur attaches there.


What's the blue bag on the back brommyboy?

I have a rackon my 5 speed and am trying to figure out a bag solution for it.

I can get up some pretty big hills on mine but cannot help but wonder/worry/frett about what it would be like getting up a hill fully loaded.


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## Brommyboy (23 Dec 2014)

Thee rear bag is an Ortleib: http://www.ortlieb.co.uk/backpacks/x-plorer.html
It is attached to saddle and rack using two 90cm bungees. The straps allow for easier carrying when bike folded. For the 5-speed Brompton, I used a 14T rear sprocket with the 44T chain ring, and got up most hills. My picture (left) is going up the Applecross Pass unladen. For home use, I changed the sprocket for the usual 13T one.


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## Blue Hills (23 Dec 2014)

Many thanks for the reply and encouraging words on the 5 speed.

Which size of that Ortlieb bag is it that you use?

Is the bungee strapping pretty straightforward and stabld? Edit stable

I have seen similar systems using rucksacks and did do a preliminary search for suitable rucksacks but I like the potential simplicity of your system. I already have the front touring bag.

PS - when swapping the rear sprocket did you have to change the chain or does the bike's normal tensioning system on the 5 speed accommodate the extra sprocket?


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## Brommyboy (24 Dec 2014)

The bag is 59 litres, anything smaller is too narrow! The top bungee goes through the saddle rails and around the post, two ends sticking out: pulling on these (while lifting the bag on to the rack) holds the bike upright. The second bungee is threaded through this one, and the ends are attached to the rack in front of the rack pegs, so they do not slide backwards. This is perfectly stable unless the bike is laid down on its side. I have travelled thousands of miles with this system.


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## Blue Hills (24 Dec 2014)

Many thanks for the reply brommyboy. Am afraid that being a bit thick i don't entirely understand your description but appreciate that it is hard to describe. Don't trouble yourself any more as I am sure that if I can get that size of bag i can figure it out.

If you could reply to my ps above that would be handy.

All the best and merry christmas anyway.


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