# Do all cyclocross bikes have toe-overlap?



## Long Distance (28 May 2011)

I'm thinking of replacing my Kona Jake because the toe overlap with the front wheel is doing my nut. I've fell off a couple of times when negotiating tight turns slowly.

I'm not sure what other bikes I'm considering at the moment, but I would like another cyclocross bike, perhaps with disc brakes this time though.

However, if the toe overlap issue is a general problem with cyclocross bikes in general, then I'll probably have to look at a hybrid (a more off-road orientated one). Is it a common problem?? Can anyone recommend a cyclocross bike around 800 quid that *doesn't* have toe overlap??


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## david1701 (28 May 2011)

I have a toe overlap thing, even with spds, but I think it would go away if I took the guards off. Have you considered adding mudguards because then you would touch them not the wheel (and as such not stop the front wheel) so shouldn't fall off?


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## raindog (28 May 2011)

Every single racing bike I've ever owned had toe overlap and I can't remember once ever having the slightest problem. If it _was _a problem, the pros would constantly be falling off.


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## smokeysmoo (28 May 2011)

I've got no issues with my Focus Mares AX1.0, even with my size 12 dogs


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## dodgy (28 May 2011)

Are your forks fitted the right way round? 


Don't laugh, there's been at least one thread on here where it happened to an unwitting owner.


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## GrasB (28 May 2011)

CX bikes tend to be designed to minimise toe overlap because you may need to aggressively use the steering. With that said how much toe overlap? Are we talking mm or cm & how long are the cranks? You may well be better off by changing the cranks for shorter ones rather than changing the bike.


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## dodgy (28 May 2011)

It could also be the cleats are positioned too far to the back of the shoe.


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## GrasB (28 May 2011)

dodgy said:


> It could also be the cleats are positioned too far to the back of the shoe.


Assuming you've got the cleat position right I'd not be changing the cleat position due to toe overlap. I'd be swapping cranks before trying to change fundamental fit ergonomics that will effect the riders pedal motion.


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## PK99 (28 May 2011)

raindog said:


> Every single racing bike I've ever owned had toe overlap and I can't remember once ever having the slightest problem.* If it was a problem, the pros would constantly be falling of*f.



not so, toe overlap is only an issue at slow speed when you turn by turning the wheel.

slow speed manoeuvring on a cylocross can be an issue with toe overlap, but in practice, esp when clipped onto the bike in clipless pedals (sic), i do not find it any issue.


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## dodgy (28 May 2011)

GrasB said:


> Assuming you've got the cleat position right I'd not be changing the cleat position due to toe overlap. I'd be swapping cranks before trying to change fundamental fit ergonomics that will effect the riders pedal motion.




But we don't know if he's got it right or not, so worth checking. For all we know, taking another look at the cleat positioning might be a double whammy benefit - no toe overlap and better pedalling dynamics


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## Smokin Joe (28 May 2011)

raindog said:


> Every single racing bike I've ever owned had toe overlap and I can't remember once ever having the slightest problem. If it _was _a problem, the pros would constantly be falling off.


+1


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## al-fresco (28 May 2011)

Just experienced this for the first time on my new bike - as far as I can see (in my case) it's a function of cyclocross geometry + frame size (smaller sizes have more of a problem) + wheel size + crank size. So a cyclocross bike with a 50cm frame, 700c wheels and 170mm cranks = small amount of toe overlap. A bigger frame, smaller wheels or shorter cranks would eliminate it (in my case) but, now that I know what causes it, it doesn't worry me enough to do anything about it.


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## GrasB (28 May 2011)

dodgy said:


> But we don't know if he's got it right or not, so worth checking. For all we know, taking another look at the cleat positioning might be a double whammy benefit - no toe overlap and better pedalling dynamics


Genrally for better in-saddle pedalling dynamics (eg better power transfer from foot to the crank) you'll be wanting to move the cleat *backwards* near to the arch of the foot. For an easier on your ankle pedalling motion & out of the saddle dynamics you move the cleat forwards to the ball of your foot.


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## screenman (28 May 2011)

GrasB, that makes interesting reading can I ask where you got that information from, as I have always been told by coaches to put the pedal axle directly under the ball.


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## snailracer (28 May 2011)

screenman said:


> GrasB, that makes interesting reading can I ask where you got that information from, as I have always been told by coaches to put the pedal axle directly under the ball.


http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/blog/2011/04/power-to-the-pedal-cleat-position/


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## screenman (29 May 2011)

Many thanks, very interesting subject.


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## GrasB (29 May 2011)

The problem with moving the cleat further back is that at first most people use the ankle to smooth out their pedal motion. The further back the cleat the larger the motion you put your ankle through. All the research I've seen done has been with seasoned athletes who have developed a good pedal motion to start with so it's not an issue.

I learnt about cleat positioning through my physio & bike fitter.


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