# Had words with a cyclist yesterday



## Stu9 (15 Mar 2013)

Waiting at lights and leaned against the car roof, I know it's only his hand but it's the principle, I wound the pass window and told him to fk off, he said "it's only my hand we'll be moving in a minute"....cheeky pr*ck!....I thought yes you will move. So while he was leaning, I moved forward and nearly fell, the lights then changed. Just who the fk do these people think they are, it's the first that's ever happened


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## Hip Priest (15 Mar 2013)

We've had a discussion about this before. Personally it wouldn't bother me if a cyclist leant on my car, but I wouldn't do it myself.


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## Beebo (15 Mar 2013)

You can look at it two ways:

1 - yes it's rude and he shouldnt touch your car.
2 - so what, it's only a car, what harm can it do.

I dont think I would ever put my hand on someones car, but equally I wouldnt get too bothered if some did it to me.


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## Andy_R (15 Mar 2013)

Beebo said:


> You can look at it two ways:
> 
> 1 - yes it's rude and he shouldnt touch your car.
> 2 - so what, it's only a car, what harm can it do.
> ...


Lets look at it the other way round...what if a passenger in a car was to lean out of the window and hold onto your bike....don't do it, have respect for other people's property.


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## benb (15 Mar 2013)

Let me understand this - you rolled forwards and nearly made him fall off? You deliberately endangered someone just to make a point?

Yes, he shouldn't have leant on your car, but that's no excuse for rolling forwards like that.


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## Boris Bajic (15 Mar 2013)

It's never happened to me, but one does see it. I think it shows poor manners on the part of the cyclist, but I'm not sure it's a hanging offence.

I can quite see how it would anger a motorist, but I'm not sure that "Fugk Off!" is the most effective way to persuade someone to change.

There are Internet shouty folk on these pages who see a profound political polemic every time this subject comes up. I'm not sure there is one. It has more to do with manners than with what J-P Satre thought about on the lavatory.

Some motorists will not give a fig who leans on their car, but in deference to those who do I think it best for pedestrians and cyclists to find something else to lean on. It is not hard to unclip, although straps can be a pain. That being so, why do them up in town?

In my youth, the door pole of a Routemaster was the top solution, as it meant a free ride to 10 mph and no need to change down (before gearchanges were made idiot-proof in the '90s). Conductors often reacted similarly to the OP in this thread, but in my youth I saw buses as public property.

Manners maketh the person, or similar. It is poor form to lean on cars.


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## sidevalve (15 Mar 2013)

OOER ! You'l be in trouble for that. It seems pure lazyness to me "oh I can't be bothered unclipping / putting my foot down so I'll just lean on this car" . After all, it's just someone else's property, perhaps his pride and joy but it's not a bike so it doesn't matter. I suspect that had YOU leaned out of the car and rested your arm on his bike it might have been a different story.
The other thing is IMHO it's a dangerous thing to do anyway, after all it only takes a moment of inattention and you're on your arse in the middle of the road, Still I suppose that would be the drivers fault too.


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## Boris Bajic (15 Mar 2013)

benb said:


> Let me understand this - you rolled forwards and nearly made him fall off? You deliberately endangered someone just to make a point?
> 
> Yes, he shouldn't have leant on your car, but that's no excuse for rolling forwards like that.


 
I agree with you on many points, but not this.

I see the point, but it is deeply foolish to lean on a vehicle that has stopped only for a moment.

It is also deeply foolish to keep doing so when the driver has suggested sex and travel.

I agree with you that in absolute terms it is wrong, but I imagine many motorists would do the same. To expect otherwise would be naive.

Is there not a TV advertisement in which a driver does something similar?


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## gaz (15 Mar 2013)

I do it to buses, only once had a problem when the bus driver didn't want to move with me still resting my weight on the bus. So I just went.
I wouldn't do it to someones personal car, you never know how people will react.


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## benb (15 Mar 2013)

Boris Bajic said:


> I agree with you on many points, but not this.
> 
> I see the point, but it is deeply foolish to lean on a vehicle that has stopped only for a moment.
> 
> ...


 
I didn't say the cyclist was in the right - he clearly wasn't. But I simply can't fathom the mentality of someone who would deliberately do something that might injure someone just to make a point.


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## jonny jeez (15 Mar 2013)

Buses and trucks but not cars and vans.

dont know why, I just dont.

Cars are too personal perhaps


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## Globalti (15 Mar 2013)

A car really shouldn't matter but cars have massive emotional and territorial significance to some drivers, which is why people get so upset when you cut in ahead of them or otherwise threaten their road territory or their car territory. Bearing in mind that most drivers view their cars as an extension of their penises, it isn't really a very good idea to make contact with them. Probably the worst car would be a chavved up economy hatch or any BMW.


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## ufkacbln (15 Mar 2013)

Fiat Palio advert a couple of years ago...


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## Demonclimber (15 Mar 2013)

Apart from THE RULES (which of course every cyclist should strive to follow), I reckon there are 2 rules if you're out on y'bike; be seen (lights, bright, bright, bright flouro clothing, lights) which is sensible and never, ever, ever touch a car; stay out their way, don't touch, avoid etc etc, which is just good manners. Stop at lights, have a chat with car fellow/lady driver next to you, comment on their nice motor but don't touch. Ah ah ah, no touching now.


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## Demonclimber (15 Mar 2013)

Cunobelin said:


> Fiat Palio advert a couple of years ago...



Love it.


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## Matthew_T (15 Mar 2013)

A long time ago after watching some Lucas Brunelle videos, I thought it would be good to grab onto a car whilst is was moving and get a tow. Since then I have learned that it would be amazingly dangerous and also illegal to do that.

At most traffic lights there are railings besides the pavement, so why could you not just lean on them? I would never lean on a car at lights because I am not that impatient to not unclip.


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## theclaud (15 Mar 2013)

Stu9 said:


> Waiting at lights and leaned against the car roof, I know it's only his hand but it's the principle, I wound the pass window and told him to fk off, he said "it's only my hand we'll be moving in a minute"....cheeky pr*ck!....I thought yes you will move. So while he was leaning, I moved forward and nearly fell, the lights then changed. Just who the fk do these people think they are, it's the first that's ever happened


 
Get over yourself.


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## Globalti (15 Mar 2013)

I tried holding onto a Pole but the silly bloke walked away and I fell on the pavement...


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## GrasB (15 Mar 2013)

A sign seen on a show car I once saw:

Run your fingers over my car.
I'll run my car over your fingers.


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## Dan B (15 Mar 2013)

Andy_R said:


> Lets look at it the other way round...what if a passenger in a car was to lean out of the window and hold onto your bike...


Not really comparable. (1) he might unbalance the bike; (2) he might get his fingers stuck somewhere in something mechanical and do himself an injury; (3) most bikes are sufficiently compact that anyone doing so would also be in my _personal_ space. If I were riding a bike that none of these points apply to (say, a large, four wheeled bike with fairings or other form of side panels to lean against) , I wouldn't mind. In fact, I have done and didn't mind - although it was also a terrifically heavy bike and anyone trying to hang off it to get a free ride got bloody short shrift. But touching or leaning against - who cares?


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## Dan B (15 Mar 2013)

GrasB said:


> A sign seen on a show car I once saw:
> 
> Run your fingers over my car.
> I'll run my car over your fingers.


It is worth noting that the original conception of "an eye for an eye" was not to legitimize violence against the perpetrator of a perceived wrong, but to _limit_ the already-extant vengeance/escalation/blood feuds that were previously how people dealt with this stuff. You might say that "it's a limit, not a target"


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## glasgowcyclist (15 Mar 2013)

If you don't have the skill to trackstand, or the sense to unclip, maybe you should put the stabilisers back on.


GC


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## JoeyB (15 Mar 2013)

If someone leant on my car, I'd be slightly irritated by it also. Just unclip!!!


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## Brandane (15 Mar 2013)

It's not right, and I wouldn't do it myself, but it's no big deal really. And I am quite particular about my car, more so than my bikes.
Beginning to think that after not enjoying your cycle experience on the bike you recently bought, that you have become a bit of a troll, Stu9? Your recent posts haven't exactly been positive about cycling!


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## redcard (15 Mar 2013)

Stu9 said:


> Waiting at lights and leaned against the car roof, I know it's only his hand but it's the principle, I wound the pass window and told him to fk off, he said "it's only my hand we'll be moving in a minute"....cheeky pr*ck!....I thought yes you will move. So while he was leaning, I moved forward and nearly fell, the lights then changed. Just who the fk do these people think they are, it's the first that's ever happened



It sounds like this situation got you angry. Real angry. An almost uncontrollable anger. 

Are you getting treatment?


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## jim55 (15 Mar 2013)

i cycle and drive a car (a bmw if that makes a diff )and id never lean on any car ,indeed id react if a cyclist leaned on my car ,the leaning out the window and leaning on the bike is valid ,somebody posted about it not being the same thing ,it bloody is!!never
mind about mechanical and being caught up and stuff ,its still the same principle ,as somebody else said cars have an emotional attachment for a lot of people ,how du know their gloves /jacket sleeves whatever dont have zips/buckles or something that could scratch the paint uv just spent all weekend washing /waxing (dirty hands from just fixing a puncture and oil from the chain )
if ur car was parked and there was somebody leaning on it while on foot most people would tell them not to do it ,the same applies at traffic lights /give ways .stops in gen
i sometimes lean against poles and barriers but never against a car that could move at anytime and the driver could get out and punch you off the bike for a seemingly (to the cyclist)worthless misdemeanour


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## redcard (15 Mar 2013)

jim55 said:


> ...the leaning out the window and leaning on the bike is valid ,somebody posted about it not being the same thing ,it bloody is!!



Don't be silly. A driver leaning on a bike is akin to a cyclist leaning against a pram.


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## jim55 (15 Mar 2013)

same thing though poeople would feel its an intrusion ,if somebody done it to me id tell them not to ,if they still done it id move to make it impssible to do so ,id just see it as no respect for other peoples stuff


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## redcard (15 Mar 2013)

jim55 said:


> same thing though poeople would feel its an intrusion ,if somebody done it to me id tell them not to ,if they still done it id move to make it impssible to do so ,id just see it as no respect for other peoples stuff



So you agree with me.


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## Dan B (15 Mar 2013)

jim55 said:


> i cycle and drive a car (a bmw if that makes a diff )and id never lean on any car ,indeed id react if a cyclist leaned on my car ,the leaning out the window and leaning on the bike is valid ,somebody posted about it not being the same thing ,it bloody is!!never
> mind about mechanical and being caught up and stuff ,its still the same principle


Just saying "it bloody is" doesn't make it so. My car car is not liable to overbalancing if pushed sideways, so the primary reason I don't want you leaning on my bike when I'm stopped simply doesn't apply to you leaning on my car.


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## Licramite (15 Mar 2013)

I wouldn't mind, its only a car, I would be more intersting in the bike and the kit he has.

I wouldn't do it myself as I can see how people could be offended. -people are very Territorial.


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## Dan B (15 Mar 2013)

jim55 said:


> same thing though poeople would feel its an intrusion


What if it was not a car but was (a) an SUV, (b) a stretch limo, (c) a minibus, (d) a double decker bus, (e) a supertanker? What expanse of road space is it OK for you to take up and still get precious about other people touching it, and at what size of vehicle do we say "get over yourself", and given that different people probably have different answers to that question, what makes any particular answer better than any other? Serious question


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## Tommy2 (15 Mar 2013)

how would people feel if you were at a cafe stop during a ride, sat outside having a coffeeor what ever and someone else came along and realised there were no seats left so sat on your bike to have their coffee.
would that bother anybody?


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## redcard (15 Mar 2013)

Tommy2 said:


> how would people feel if you were at a cafe stop during a ride, sat outside having a coffeeor what ever and someone else came along and realised there were no seats left so sat on your bike to have their coffee.
> would that bother anybody?



I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that.


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## User16625 (15 Mar 2013)

benb said:


> Let me understand this - you rolled forwards and nearly made him fall off? You deliberately endangered someone just to make a point?
> 
> Yes, he shouldn't have leant on your car, but that's no excuse for rolling forwards like that.


 
I absolutely hate comments like this. Its this sort of thinking that allows burglers to sue the owners they are stealing from because they tripped over something. Thanks to people like you even murderers have human rights.

And yes it WAS an excuse for "rolling forwards like that" in my opinion. If someone does something iffy, then it is within reason that they suffer potential consequences. I suggest you check out _http://www.darwinawards.com/_ as they have plenty of examples which may make you understand things better than I can. Silly man.


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## redcard (15 Mar 2013)

There's a few people in this thread who are coming across as slightly unhinged...


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## JoeyB (15 Mar 2013)

RideLikeTheStig said:


> I absolutely hate comments like this. Its this sort of thinking that allows burglers to sue the owners they are stealing from because they tripped over something. Thanks to people like you even murderers have human rights.
> 
> And yes it WAS an excuse for "rolling forwards like that" in my opinion. If someone does something iffy, then it is within reason that they suffer potential consequences. I suggest you check out _http://www.darwinawards.com/_ as they have plenty of examples which may make you understand things better than I can. Silly man.


 
My line of thinking also....no action without consequence and all that.


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## smutchin (15 Mar 2013)

jonny jeez said:


> Cars are too personal perhaps


 
People wear their cars like overcoats. Touching someone's car is tantamount to touching the person directly. They feel personally violated.

At least, that's the way some people see it. The way I see it is that this is symptomatic of our society's unhealthy, fetishistic obsession with cars.

I wouldn't lean on anyone else's car while cycling because a) as already mentioned, it's potentially dangerous, and b) you do risk being subjected to these irrational responses. But I would only react to someone doing it to my car if I thought there was an intention of causing damage.


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## ianrauk (15 Mar 2013)

I don't mind if it's a fully lycra'd up roadie with a decent clean bike. Wouldn't like it if it was some weirdo on a filthy MTB or BSO.


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## lejogger (15 Mar 2013)

I once leant against an unmanned parked car while waiting for the queue in front to disperse. As I was sat, I questioned the morality and have never leant on a car again even though nothing was said by anyone at the time. I just decided that it wasn't good ettiquette.

Yes it's a pain to have to always unclip and clip, especially when you're trying to keep up with traffic and not cause holdups, or not put yourself in danger, but sometimes I'm afraid you have to just put your foot down. Literally.

This thread has reminded me of a train ride back to Chester from Holyhead. My pal and I had spent 10 days touring Ireland and during this time he had noticed his saddle giving off a very unpleasant cheesy odour. It truly made the eyes water.
As the train journey progressed, the carriages filled to the point where there was standing room only. A rather attractive lady with tremendous knockers and a very low cut top decided that to aid her support she would cling onto said saddle for the best part of 30 minutes. I think he certainly felt a little put out that his titanium pride and joy was being used as a glorified zimmer frame, however the visual distraction provided by the rickety train alongside the childish amusement at her cheesified hand seemed to prevent him from speaking up.


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## Canrider (15 Mar 2013)

RideLikeTheStig said:


> And yes it WAS an excuse for "rolling forwards like that" in my opinion. If someone does something iffy, then it is within reason that they suffer potential consequences. I suggest you check out _http://www.darwinawards.com/_ as they have plenty of examples which may make you understand things better than I can. Silly man.


That's right, a bit like two preschoolers wandering around windmilling their arms, and if someone happens to get in the way, well, that's the consequences, isn't it?


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## benb (15 Mar 2013)

RideLikeTheStig said:


> I absolutely hate comments like this. Its this sort of thinking that allows burglers to sue the owners they are stealing from because they tripped over something. Thanks to people like you even murderers have human rights.
> 
> And yes it WAS an excuse for "rolling forwards like that" in my opinion. If someone does something iffy, then it is within reason that they suffer potential consequences. I suggest you check out _http://www.darwinawards.com/_ as they have plenty of examples which may make you understand things better than I can. Silly man.


 
There's absolutely no need for the offensive tone of this response.

Hang on, are you seriously saying that even the most minor infringements can have injurious effects to the perpetrator, and that's just fine?
Let's say the cyclist did topple over due to the OP moving their car, and was seriously injured as a result. That's OK is it?


Have you even heard of proportionality?

I can't believe you are seriously saying that a cyclist leaning on a car deserves to be injured because of it.



JoeyB said:


> My line of thinking also....no action without consequence and all that.


 
But the consequences ought to be proportionate to the crime.


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## Stu9 (15 Mar 2013)

Brandane said:


> Beginning to think that after not enjoying your cycle experience on the bike you recently bought, that you have become a bit of a troll, Stu9? Your recent posts haven't exactly been positive about cycling!


 


As a few have said too...I wouldnt do it, if they cant be arsed to unclip and put a foot down, fk them


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## shouldbeinbed (15 Mar 2013)

It's happened to me and I've seen others do it, no skin off my nose at all. Personally I wouldn't do it, but to get het up about it to the extent you become abusive and could have caused him to fall off, jeez.

What else is going wrong in your life to generate that level of instant anger and intolerance.


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## redcard (15 Mar 2013)

It's the driver equivalent of getting beaten up because someone didn't like the way you looked at them.

I guess some people don't need much of an excuse to fly off the handle. I mean, probably had a stressful day and need to take it out on someone. Innit.


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## Raging Squirrel (15 Mar 2013)

In all fairness, I can see why the OP was annoyed. I love my car, its my pride and joy and I like to take care of it. This includes buying very expensive wax and spending many hours detailing it so the paintwork looks brand new. The worst thing that can happen is then for it to get dirty, or even worse, fingerprints....which attract the dirt which in turn can scratch the paintwork. It is "just a car" but it's MY car that I spent a lot of money on.....so show some respect for other peoples property.....I mean how long does it take to unclip?


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## redcard (15 Mar 2013)

Raging Squirrel said:


> In all fairness, I can see why the OP was annoyed. I love my car, its my pride and joy and I like to take care of it. This includes buying very expensive wax and spending many hours detailing it so the paintwork looks brand new. The worst thing that can happen is then for it to get dirty, or even worse, fingerprints....which attract the dirt which in turn can scratch the paintwork. It is "just a car" but it's MY car that I spent a lot of money on.....so show some respect for other peoples property.....I mean how long does it take to unclip?



No sensible person is disagreeing that leaning on your car is a 'bad thing'.


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## Sara_H (15 Mar 2013)

If someone leaned on my car (if I had a car), I'd be surprised, but it wouldn't bother me.

But then I'm a lady, and don't consider my car to be an extention of my genitalia (which is good as I don't own a car).


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## Hitchington (15 Mar 2013)

(Some) Car drivers are such drama queens.


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## Dan B (15 Mar 2013)

Tommy2 said:


> how would people feel if you were at a cafe stop during a ride, sat outside having a coffeeor what ever and someone else came along and realised there were no seats left so sat on your bike to have their coffee.
> would that bother anybody?


In the same way as it would bother me if they sat inside my car to have their coffee. It's not really a very good comparison


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## Hip Priest (15 Mar 2013)

It seems that everything that happens is an excuse for anger. I can understand why someone might be annoyed by the above scenario, but I don't understand why they'd completely lose their rag and resort to violence or threats. 

Emotional subtlety seems a thing of the past.


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## Pedrosanchezo (15 Mar 2013)

Car drivers shouldn't have to wait on a cyclist to remove their hands in order to continue their journey. They should also be able to move their car whenever they please, assuming it's in a safe manner. A cyclist is endangering him/herself by leaning on a car. 
If it's considered even slightly unsafe then why bother when it's so easy to unclip?

If it was the only option, i would understand. It clearly isn't and for this reason it is simply inconsiderate.


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## cd365 (15 Mar 2013)

So the cyclist was asked to get off the car in no uncertain terms, refused so Stu moved forward to give him a scare, the cyclist got what he deserved in my opinion. If he was waiting at traffic lights he would not have been in a position to move very far forward so I doubt the cyclist would have been seriously hurt if he fell.


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## BSRU (15 Mar 2013)

If someone leaned on my car they would need to go and wash their hands


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## BigonaBianchi (15 Mar 2013)

they don't like it up 'em Mr. Mainwaring...they don't like it up 'em

bloody car drivers...its ok to ram a rider off the road but ooohh...wo betide if their paintwork gets scratched..


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## redcard (15 Mar 2013)

cd365 said:


> So the cyclist was asked to get off the car in no uncertain terms, refused so Stu moved forward to give him a scare, the cyclist got what he deserved in my opinion. If he was waiting at traffic lights he would not have been in a position to move very far forward so I doubt the cyclist would have been seriously hurt if he fell.



I think if the cyclist had got hurt then Stu would have seen that as bonus.


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## ianrauk (15 Mar 2013)

BSRU said:


> If someone leaned on my car they would need to go and wash their hands


 

I only lean on recently cleaned and polished cars.
Filthy cars? Yuk.. no way.


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## Brandane (15 Mar 2013)

Raging Squirrel said:


> In all fairness, I can see why the OP was annoyed. I love my car, its my pride and joy and I like to take care of it. This includes buying very expensive wax and spending many hours detailing it so the paintwork looks brand new. The worst thing that can happen is then for it to get dirty, or even worse, fingerprints....which attract the dirt which in turn can scratch the paintwork. It is "just a car" but it's MY car that I spent a lot of money on.....so show some respect for other peoples property.....I mean how long does it take to unclip?


 
Better that you don't bring your car to where I live, on the coast. The seagulls don't tend to show any respect for highly polished paintwork; in fact I am sure they prefer it! I would rather have a cyclist lean on my car than get splattered by a seagull.


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## Matthew_T (15 Mar 2013)

I dont really understand all this nonsense about getting so attached to your car.

In Paris due to the problems with parking everyone leaves their handbrake off so that the car can be pushed a little to allow other people room to park.
In the USA people just leave their broken cars at the side of the road to rot and then buy a new one.
In Russia there are that many crashes and accidents that every single car has some form of dent in it.

The UK are the only people who actually care so much for trivial items which just cause more problems than they solve. The cause arguments, traffic jams, pollution, and cost a stupid amount to run.
If people in this country took a laid back attitude then things would be a lot calmer.

When I do have car, I would welcome cyclists to lean on it because I would know that it isnt the end of the world and They are extremely unlikely to damage it even if they do fall over.


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## Brandane (15 Mar 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> I dont really understand all this nonsense about getting so attached to your car..............
> 
> ............and cost a stupid amount to run.


 
I think you just answered your own question there!


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## raindog (15 Mar 2013)

Silly thread alert!


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## redcard (15 Mar 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> When I do have car, I would welcome cyclists to lean on it....



Don't.


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## Matthew_T (15 Mar 2013)

redcard said:


> Don't.


Okay, I wouldnt welcome them but I certainly wouldnt be yelling at them to get off.


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## GrasB (15 Mar 2013)

Matthew_T, this may surprise you but some people in Russia, France & the US care about their cars very much & with some of those people you'd find your self in a very dangerous position if you did something like lean up against their car. There are also people in the UK who don't give two hoots about their car.

If you were to lean on any of my cars you'd get an ear bashing from me. Two of my cars are peppered with small dents, paint chips etc. because they are cars to be used not looked at. That said it's not just about the car it's also about respect for other people's property. A car can be very expensive & something that someone has put a lot of time & money into, it's not something you have any right to risk denting or damaging


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## JoeyB (15 Mar 2013)

The moral of the story is don't lean on people, cars, bikes or prams that dont belong to you.... It's just not cricket.


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## 4F (15 Mar 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> I dont really understand all this nonsense about getting so attached to your car..


 
Given that it is the second most expensive item you are likely to purchase after a house (apart from a really flash carbon bike ) then you
can understand why some would feel so attached to it.



If whilst waiting on your bike for the lights to change, would you be happy for a ped to stop and rest on your top tube ?


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## Dan B (15 Mar 2013)

4F said:


> Given that it is the second most expensive item you are likely to purchase after a house (apart from a really flash carbon bike ) then you
> can understand why some would feel so attached to it.


Not being a homeowner, my car is actually the most expensive item I have ever purchased. But I still don't see how that translates into emotional attachment: it's a tool, it does a job, but it's not part of who I am. If someone steadies their bike at the lights by putting their hand on the roof, it's not going to materially affect either the value of the car or the ridiculous amount of money I have to pay the finance company each month not to take it away, so really, who cares? If they were balancing on the frame of the open drivers window then I might get uncomfortable because that would actually be my personal space they're in, but if we all went around deciding that our personal space extends as far as each of us feels like extending it, urban life would more or less be impossible as a result.



4F said:


> If whilst waiting on your bike for the lights to change, would you be happy for a ped to stop and rest on your top tube ?


I can't really visualise this, sorry. It's difficult to say how I'd feel about it if I can't imagine it happening or why they;d want to


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## JoeyB (15 Mar 2013)

If anyone leant on my E30 at the lights, they'd run the risk of putting their hand through a rust spot lol


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## Matthew_T (15 Mar 2013)

Well my bike is the most expensive thing I have ever purchased. When it comes to getting a car, I will probably sell my bike and get a car for less. Meaning that the cars value will still be less than that of my bike.
However, that doesnt mention insurance though which would probably be ten times what my bike is worth.


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## Boris Bajic (15 Mar 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> I dont really understand all this nonsense about getting so attached to your car.
> 
> In Paris due to the problems with parking everyone leaves their handbrake off so that the car can be pushed a little to allow other people room to park.
> In the USA people just leave their broken cars at the side of the road to rot and then buy a new one.
> ...


 
All of the above is quite correct and in no way based on tired generalisation or flaccid national stereotyping. Everything Matthew writes is confirmed by my Gallic friend Marcel, who cycles over occasionally in his stripey top and jauntily placed beret, with onions hanging from his handlebars. If you're lucky, he'll demonstrate through the medium of mime. They love a bit of mime, the crazy French.

Or....

Having driven extensively in Paris and the USA and been driven extensively in the (then) USSR, I can confirm that all the above stereotypes are tosh and horse poo. And cack and wee wee. And worse. People are not keen on others doing damage to their cars. 

As to taking a laid back attutude... people with Youtube channels shouldn't throw stones... or something. I fear, Matthew, that when you drive you might be yelling *"THIRTY!"* at everyone who passes you and offering helpful driving tips to people who change up 500 revs too high or indicate before looking in their mirror. Just a guess....


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## smutchin (15 Mar 2013)

Raging Squirrel said:


> The worst thing that can happen is then for it to get dirty, or even worse, fingerprints....


 
Yes, I find it hard to imagine anything worse than that.


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## smutchin (15 Mar 2013)

Boris Bajic said:


> Having driven extensively in Paris and the USA and been driven extensively in the (then) USSR, I can confirm that all the above stereotypes are tosh and horse poo. And cack and wee wee. And worse. People are not keen on others doing damage to their cars.


 
My experience of living and driving in France is that the stereotype is broadly true. The general philosophy seems to be that cars have bumpers for a reason.

That was a few years ago though, so maybe things have changed.


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## Globalti (15 Mar 2013)

I'm going to print a new bumper sticker:

*CYCLISTS: FEEL FREE TO LEAN ON THIS CAR **
* *only applies to bikes worth over £200.*


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## BSRU (15 Mar 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> When it comes to getting a car, I will probably sell my bike and get a car


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## Boris Bajic (15 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> Yes, I find it hard to imagine anything worse than that.


 
Sir,

I accept that dirty fingerprints are the very work of Satan, but I'm sure you'll agree there are worse things:

1. A nuclear holocaust brought about by US diplomatic intransigence following threats from Pyongyang.
2. A global failure of the carrot crop, resulting in the use of parsnips and sweet potato in recipes for which they are unsuited.
3. The election of fictional comic-book hero The Incredible Hulk as President of Turkey.
4. Every bootlace in the civilised world coming undone simultaneously for no apparent reason.

There are more, but I cannot think of them at present. One might involve coal dust and an occasional table. But I hope you see my point. If you were being serious, I hope you will now reconsider your statement. One can imagine worse things with ease.


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## Canrider (15 Mar 2013)

Boris Bajic said:


> 3. The election of fictional comic-book hero The Incredible Hulk as President of Turkey.
> 4. Every bootlace in the civilised world coming undone simultaneously for no apparent reason.


Those. Would. Be. Awexsome.


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## Canrider (15 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> My experience of living and driving in France is that the stereotype is broadly true. The general philosophy seems to be that cars have bumpers for a reason.


The notion of disposing of broken cars via 'taking the (reg) plates off an pushing it into a ditch' has a certain common currency in NAmerica, as well.


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## jim55 (15 Mar 2013)

Dan B said:


> Just saying "it bloody is" doesn't make it so. My car car is not liable to overbalancing if pushed sideways, so the primary reason I don't want you leaning on my bike when I'm stopped simply doesn't apply to you leaning on my car.


well it goes both ways ,it isnt the "unstableness" thats the issue here ,its touching somebody elses property


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## Boris Bajic (15 Mar 2013)

Canrider said:


> Those. Would. Be. Awexsome.


 
Sir,

How might it benefit anybody to have a fictional character barely in control of his mood swings and suffering serious radiation sickness in charge of a secular government within a state forming the main part of the buffer between Islam and Christendom.

Adding to this the domestic issues brought about by the significant Kurdish minority, refugess from Syria and an increasingly militant Islamist cabal, the possible negative of any internal instability might have a cataclysmic effect on NATO, the wider Middle East situation, relations with Iran and much, much more.

You are exactly the sort of person who would lean on a car in traffic. And if you did, I would move it suddenly. And aggressively.

However, I agree with you about the bootlace thing. That would amuse me.


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## Beebo (15 Mar 2013)

Boris Bajic said:


> resulting in the use of parsnips and sweet potato in recipes for which they are unsuited.


 You are Greg Wallace AICMFP


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## jim55 (15 Mar 2013)

Raging Squirrel said:


> In all fairness, I can see why the OP was annoyed. I love my car, its my pride and joy and I like to take care of it. This includes buying very expensive wax and spending many hours detailing it so the paintwork looks brand new. The worst thing that can happen is then for it to get dirty, or even worse, fingerprints....which attract the dirt which in turn can scratch the paintwork. It is "just a car" but it's MY car that I spent a lot of money on.....so show some respect for other peoples property.....I mean how long does it take to unclip?


^^^^^^^^^^THIS!!!
all day long ,this coming from a road cyclist who spends quite a lot of time in the saddle and is a car owner as well,tis why i would never use a car as a leaning post ,


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## GrumpyGregry (15 Mar 2013)

Boris Bajic said:


> 4. Every bootlace in the civilised world coming undone simultaneously for no apparent reason.


Not shoelaces. What not shoelaces as well?

What have you got against boot wears? You're some kind of ruddy bootist.


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## GrumpyGregry (15 Mar 2013)

My principle objection to the OP is his road position. Own the lane, sit in primary and there won't be any cars in leaning distance.


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## glasgowcyclist (15 Mar 2013)

Dan B said:


> If someone steadies their bike at the lights by putting their hand on the roof, it's not going to materially affect either the value of the car or the ridiculous amount of money I have to pay the finance company each month not to take it away, so really, who cares?


 
You don't, and that's fine as far as your property is concerned.

That doesn't entitle a cyclist who shares your outlook to impose that view on the owner of any car he chooses to lean on. You don't get to decide what value someone else puts on his property.

GC


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## smutchin (15 Mar 2013)

glasgowcyclist said:


> You don't get to decide what value someone else puts on his property.


 
And you as car owner don't get to decide what punishment a cyclist deserves for touching your property.


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## glasgowcyclist (15 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> And you as car owner don't get to decide what punishment a cyclist deserves for touching your property.


 
I haven't punished anyone, or suggested or supported such punishment.
I suggest you direct your comment to the OP.

GC


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## Dan B (15 Mar 2013)

glasgowcyclist said:


> That doesn't entitle a cyclist who shares your outlook to impose that view on the owner of any car he chooses to lean on. You don't get to decide what value someone else puts on his property.


So if I park my glass coffee table at the edge of the road I can get legitimately upset if some cyclist puts their grubby mitts on it? Or does this respect for property only extend to cars?


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## smutchin (15 Mar 2013)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I haven't punished anyone, or suggested or supported such punishment.
> I suggest you direct your comment to the OP.


 

Oh, ffs...

It was a generic "you", a counter-argument to your point that applies to everyone, rhetorically mimicking the form of your post but clearly not aimed at you personally. (Does one really need to spell this stuff out?)


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## Dan B (15 Mar 2013)

jim55 said:


> well it goes both ways ,it isnt the "unstableness" thats the issue here ,its touching somebody elses property


_For you_ the issue might be that of touching someone else's property. I'm just pointing out that there are other reasons cyclists might want their bikes not to be held onto at traffic lights that don't hinge on a perceived abuse of personal property, so the comparison is still not a good one. It only takes a quick look at the bikes piled three deep against the cafe wall at the end of an FNRttC to demonstrate that many cyclists really won't take offence if you park your pride and joy leaning against theirs - and nor does the cafe owner get overprotective about his wall, either


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## mattobrien (15 Mar 2013)

Might make it a bit tricky to safely pull away at traffic lights if there is a cyclist leaning against your car, kind of implies that you are not giving them enough room, even if the car was there first and they filtered.

Personally I wouldn't lean against someone else's car and I would expect the same courtesy back.

Also, depending on what car I was in, they might get very dirty hands.


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## i hate hills (15 Mar 2013)

Interesting thread this. I can see it from both sides as i both cycle and drive but i have to say that in this case the cyclist is in the wrong here . You should never put your hand on a car.If someone touched my bike i'd have something to say about it .....ditto if it was my car they touched. IMHO the cyclist was a bit lucky all he got was a f off after that answer.


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## Canrider (15 Mar 2013)

Boris Bajic said:


> Adding to this the domestic issues brought about by the significant Kurdish minority, refugess from Syria and an increasingly militant Islamist cabal, the possible negative of any internal instability might have a cataclysmic effect on NATO, the wider Middle East situation, relations with Iran and much, much more.


HULK WOULD SMAAAAASH!!!

HULK NOT APPROVE OF NORTH KOREA'S NUCLEAR PROGRAAAAM!!!

HULK ALSO HAVE OPINION ON BANKERS' BONUSES!!!


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## i hate hills (15 Mar 2013)

Canrider said:


> HULK WOULD SMAAAAASH!!!
> 
> HULK NOT APPROVE OF NORTH KOREA'S NUCLEAR PROGRAAAAM!!!
> 
> HULK ALSO HAVE OPINION ON BANKERS' BONUSES!!!


Good evening. You two lost by any chance ?


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## glasgowcyclist (15 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> Oh, ffs...
> 
> It was a generic "you", a counter-argument to your point that applies to everyone, rhetorically mimicking the form of your post but clearly not aimed at you personally. (Does one really need to spell this stuff out?)



This is another reason to lament the passing of the personal pronouns thou and thee. Mine wasn't a generic you, it was specific.

Your intentions would have been clearer had you written, say, _"A car owner doesn't get to decide what punishment a cyclist deserves for touching his property."_

And just to make my position clear, I don't agree with what the OP did.

GC


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## DooDah (15 Mar 2013)

Stu9 said:


> Waiting at lights and leaned against the car roof, I know it's only his hand but it's the principle, I wound the pass window and told him to fk off, he said "it's only my hand we'll be moving in a minute"....cheeky pr*ck!....I thought yes you will move. So while he was leaning, I moved forward and nearly fell, the lights then changed. Just who the fk do these people think they are, it's the first that's ever happened


Seriously, what is with the aggression. If you did not like it then just ask him politely to remove his hand. How did you know that he could not unclip and put his hand out to stop from falling? Whether he did it on purpose or not is irrelevant, personal abuse like that is not necessary. Its car drivers like you that most cyclists generally avoid, and you are a cyclist??


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## albion (15 Mar 2013)

Probably 4 letter ones are the only words that 'type' will respond to.

That same mentality will be chucking waste inner tubes into the street and lobbing food wrappers out of a car window.


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## glasgowcyclist (15 Mar 2013)

Dan B said:


> So if I park my glass coffee table at the edge of the road I can get legitimately upset if some cyclist puts their grubby mitts on it? Or does this respect for property only extend to cars?



I doubt that you had any difficulty in understanding the point I made.


GC


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## benb (15 Mar 2013)

It's a valid point though. Drivers choose to bring their bulky private property into the public space. It does seem a bit rich for them to then treat any contact at all as an invasion of their personal boundaries.


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## theclaud (16 Mar 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> see Gods of the Road above. We are the new aristocracy of London's streets. If we feel superior, then, frankly, it's because we are. While others fret in tin cans we swan by, head in air, whistling arias from Carmen or Rigoletto, picking our teeth with one hand and scratching our arses with the other - in fact it's a wonder that we have the time (or the hands) to lean on cars. You should be so lucky!


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## lukesdad (16 Mar 2013)

ianrauk said:


> I don't mind if it's a fully lycra'd up roadie with a decent clean bike. Wouldn't like it if it was some weirdo on a filthy MTB or BSO.


 We might be a minority but we have rights you know


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## albion (16 Mar 2013)

If the whole transport system was redesigned by a scientist cars would be 100% banned and there would be cheap central hub of bus and train routes.

And everyone would be using bikes, electric bikes, electric foot scooters and C5 like contraptions for the maximum 3000 yards travel to each hub.


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## Stu9 (16 Mar 2013)

DooDah said:


> Seriously, what is with the aggression. If you did not like it then just ask him politely to remove his hand. How did you know that he could not unclip and put his hand out to stop from falling? Whether he did it on purpose or not is irrelevant, personal abuse like that is not necessary. Its car drivers like you that most cyclists generally avoid, and you are a cyclist??


 
It's what I said and that's that, as I said, I (as plenty other here too agreed, and some as with the same "words" as me) wouldnt do it and dont expect it.
If it's drivers like me they avoid, that's great, it'll keep them away....I'm a cyclist (well sometimes lol) and if I did that (as I've said) I'd expect the same

@ Albion....I'm actually quite a nice well manered person believe it not....and also quite tidy, and DO NOT chuck stuff out the window, I keep a bag in the car for rubbish then bin it, the same when I'm out, keep stuff in my pocket till I pass a bin


PS....just for the hell of it, I asked 4 of my friends what they'd do......they said the same, infact one said he'd probably just get out and deck him ...even I dont think there's any need for that....and he's a cyclist which I didnt know and in a local club, known him for 4 years aswell


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## albion (16 Mar 2013)

The problem is that unless you have the build like a rugby player, that polite question is more likely to lead to hassle and abuse.

Leaning on the car already shows severe lack of reasoning power.
So yes, swearing is what the cyclist is more likely to accept.


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## steveinnorthants (16 Mar 2013)

All this.....it's only a car....yes agree but the cyclist has no god given right to lean on it, a, because it is dangerous, due to the driver either getting aggressive or moving (or stopping as in the car ad above) and b, because it could spiral into a physical confrontation. Surely as has been said if he can't unclip he should not be riding with those pedals.

Yes, it's only a car and if the OPs action caused the idiot to take a tumble, just like in the car ad, its only a bike falling over when almost stationary.


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## Mugshot (16 Mar 2013)

Dan B said:


> So if I park my glass coffee table at the edge of the road I can get legitimately upset if some cyclist puts their grubby mitts on it? Or does this respect for property only extend to cars?


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## DiddlyDodds (17 Mar 2013)

Touch my car, id rip their arms off and club the peasants to death with em.

I’ve read several times on here "it’s just a Car" , well my windows in my house are "just glass" but if someone walking past my house sat on the window cill an "just rested on the glass" again the arms would be off and the clubbing commencing
 .


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## Kies (17 Mar 2013)

DiddlyDodds said:


> Touch my car, id rip their arms off and club the peasants to death with em.
> 
> I’ve read several times on here "it’s just a Car" , well my windows in my house are "just glass" but if someone walking past my house sat on the window cill an "just rested on the glass" again the arms would be off and the clubbing commencing
> .



You should buy a white suit and go "clubbing"!


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## theclaud (17 Mar 2013)

DiddlyDodds said:


> Touch my car, id rip their arms off and club the peasants to death with em.
> 
> I’ve read several times on here "it’s just a Car" , well my windows in my house are "just glass" but if someone walking past my house sat on the window cill an "just rested on the glass" again the arms would be off and the clubbing commencing
> .


 
See "get over yourself" above...


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## Stu9 (17 Mar 2013)

DiddlyDodds said:


> Touch my car, id rip their arms off and club the peasants to death with em.
> 
> I’ve read several times on here "it’s just a Car" , well my windows in my house are "just glass" but if someone walking past my house sat on the window cill an "just rested on the glass" again the arms would be off and the clubbing commencing
> .




Not just me then lol


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## MrGrumpy (17 Mar 2013)

nope and I feel the same, my car is as valuable to me as my bike, you should of not bothered winding the window down, just moved the car  anyway.


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## Stu9 (17 Mar 2013)

Same as me then...and look at the shoot I got from some


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## redcard (17 Mar 2013)

Stu9 said:


> Same as me then...and look at the s*** I got from some



You got it because you come across as a horrible Glaswegian tosser, the sort of person who spends his weekends dragging his knuckles up and down Sauchiehall Street.

No offence.


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## Stu9 (17 Mar 2013)

I dont come from there bawbag


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## vickster (17 Mar 2013)

There appear to be a few anger management issues in this thread...or is that just a tad too much testosterone and postering


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## Brandane (17 Mar 2013)

redcard said:


> You got it because you come across as a horrible Glaswegian tosser, the sort of person who spends his weekends dragging his knuckles up and down Sauchiehall Street.
> 
> No offence.


 
Don't mince your words now, RedCard .


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## Hip Priest (17 Mar 2013)

vickster said:


> There appear to be a few anger management issues in this thread...or is that just a tad too much testosterone and postering


 
Tell me about it.

You normally have to visit specialist websites to see this much willy waving.


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## Boris Bajic (17 Mar 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> Tell me about it.
> 
> You normally have to visit specialist websites to see this much willy waving.


 
If I saw anyone waving their willy on the Internet, I'd deck them straight away. Mind you, I can handle myself (so to speak), so no-one would get up to that sort of thing around me anyway.

Sorry, is this one of those specialist websites you were talking about?

If not, can I have a link. It's not for me, of course....

If I saw anyone using one of those specialist websites, I'd deck them straight away....


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## 400bhp (17 Mar 2013)

We could probably change car and cyclist in this thread to religion and atheism.


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## Stu9 (17 Mar 2013)

Brandane said:


> Don't mince your words now, RedCard .


 
Neither will I


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## Hip Priest (17 Mar 2013)

A lot of the comments remind me of those US neighbourhood militia types that crop up in Louis Theroux or Jon Ronson documentaries. The sort who have an arsenal of weapons under their beds to protect themselves from non-existent threats.


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## DiddlyDodds (17 Mar 2013)

I am quite happy to sit and listen to the others argument, to look at the construction of their point , to see if the facts stack up, and if my point of view may not be rational.
So after taking it all on board and processing all the information, i come to this conclusion , I am right , you are wrong


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## Nigel-YZ1 (17 Mar 2013)

Wouldn't bother me too much if my car was leant on by a cyclist. I'm one of those people that spends time keeping the thing nice and shiny etc when I can, but in the end there's much worse things in life to get worked up over. At the moment you'd just end up with a dirty hand!
I don't lean on cars due to there being too many over aggressive scumbags on the roads who would see it as a capital offence. Also I'd be placing trust in someone I don't know - and I'd rather not learn it was a mistake while lying on a road being squished by the bus behind


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## vickster (17 Mar 2013)

Nigel-YZ1 said:


> I don't lean on cars due to there being too many over aggressive scumbags on the roads who would see it as a capital offence.


 
Some of whom also appear to cycle judging by this thread (occasionally / briefly in the case of the OP)


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## Stu9 (17 Mar 2013)




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## Mugshot (18 Mar 2013)

YEAH


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