# cleaning disc brakes with white spirit ?



## 007fair (18 Jun 2012)

Hi All My sons bike had squeaky disc brakes and I thought I had read somewhere that you can use white spirit to clean the disc and the pads - so did. The squeaking has gone and I was able to tighten them also but their effectiveness is less than it was. Is white spirit the wrong thing to use? If so can I re clean them with something else?

Also I noticed that the pads are just held on by magnets. On my Kona MTB these pads are linked with a small pin but on my sons much cheaper bike there is no link. When the brakes are fully on there is a bit of movement of the pads - a few mm - which does not seem right even for cheaper end brakes. Is there a pin missing or is this the way cheaper disc brakes work?


Thanks!


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## HovR (18 Jun 2012)

007fair said:


> Also I noticed that the pads are just held on by magnets. On my Kona MTB these pads are linked with a small pin but on my sons much cheaper bike there is no link. When the brakes are fully on there is a bit of movement of the pads - a few mm - which does not seem right even for cheaper end brakes. Is there a pin missing or is this the way cheaper disc brakes work?


 
Cheaper calipers do tend to just hold the pads in with magnets. The bike I use for commuting short distances in wet weather also uses these cheaper types of disc brakes, and I haven't had any issues with them - Even when slowing down to 10mph from 35ish for a horse and rider that stepped out of a field gate whilst descending a hill.

As for the cleaning, I've cleaned my disc brakes with ethanol before, and it hasn't effected the braking power. Not sure about white spirit. One issue I've had with cheaper discs is that after a while the pads and disc take on a glassy, almost polished surface, which reduced my braking power. I fixed this by taking the rotor off, and pads out, and resurfacing them with a bit of sand paper. This worked well for me.


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## Smokin Joe (18 Jun 2012)

Clean the discs with white spirit by all means, but you should never touch the pads with any sort of cleaner. The material will absorb it and as you've discovered, it will have a detrimental effect.


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## Pauluk (18 Jun 2012)

You can use isopropyl alcohol, which you can buy cheaply online, to clean your discs and it doesn't harm your pads at all. I wouldn't use surgical spirit (sometimes sold as isopropyl _)_ from the chemist as it sometimes has additives like castor oil. Halfords sell a disc brake cleaner spray can (about £5) that I've found effective, again it doesn't harm the pads.


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## MacB (18 Jun 2012)

I've put rotors in the dishwasher and it seemed to work well


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## black'n'yellow (18 Jun 2012)

why on earth would you want to clean a critical braking surface with an oil derivative..?? If your brakes are squeaking, cleaning the disk will make sod all difference anyway...


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## Linford (18 Jun 2012)

White spirit has likely knackered the pads. I'd go to a motor factors or Halfords, buy a can of brake cleaner from them,give the pads a very good dousing with it (like the whole can), and when it dries you 'might' just get away with it. I'd not want my kids having a runaway and a resulting accident because I compromised the brakes on their bikes.


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## MacB (18 Jun 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> why on earth would you want to clean a critical braking surface with an oil derivative..?? If your brakes are squeaking, cleaning the disk will make sod all difference anyway...


 
That's why people start threads in 'Know How' so that some smart arse can come along and slag them off


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## black'n'yellow (18 Jun 2012)

MacB said:


> That's why people start threads in 'Know How' so that some smart arse can come along and slag them off


 
Well, I guess one person's smart arse is another person's 'incredulous commentator'. Oil and brakes are not a good combination - I assumed that was universally understood...?


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## asterix (19 Jun 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> Well, I guess one person's smart arse is another person's 'incredulous commentator'. Oil and brakes are not a good combination - I assumed that was universally understood...?


 
The clue is in the name. White Spirit. Easily confused with, say methylated spirit WRT cleaning properties. I have often cleaned wheel rims with white spirit and it has had no detrimental effect on braking although I do dry off the spirit carefully. Last time I did so was probably preparing a bike for the Raid Pyrenean during which there was one 32km descent. The dual pivot brakes performed perfectly.
It's surprising that brake components are so critical of contaminants - after all they must collect a lot of all sorts of road crap.

And, never assume _anything_ is universally understood, that is the point of 'Know how'.


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## 007fair (19 Jun 2012)

Guys thanks for the replies! Live and learn.. As the for Oil comment .. of course I understand oil and brakes are not a good match but didn't think white spirit was in that 'family' My mistake was not asking first.


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## mickle (19 Jun 2012)

Linford said:


> White spirit has likely knackered the pads. I'd go to a motor factors or Halfords, buy a can of brake cleaner from them,give the pads a very good dousing with it (like the whole can), and when it dries you 'might' just get away with it. I'd not want my kids having a runaway and a resulting accident because I compromised the brakes on their bikes.


Wrong. You shouldn't use automotive disc brake cleaner on bicycle brakes. Because they also contain oil as a surface protector. Car brakes being iron and all.


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## Howard (19 Jun 2012)

If you think the pads have been knackered by the white spirit you could try removing them then putting them in a naked flame (i.e. the hob) for a few seconds to burn it off.

Worked for me with Shimano pads that had been contaminated with brake fluid after a messy bleed. YMMV.


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## subaqua (19 Jun 2012)

mickle said:


> Wrong. You shouldn't use automotive disc brake cleaner on bicycle brakes. Because they also contain oil as a surface protector. Car brakes being iron and all.


 

what the same metal as the discs on my MTB . the friction material is the same too.

i reaaly can't see a manufacturer of brake cleaner adding oil.


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## MacB (19 Jun 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> Well, I guess one person's smart arse is another person's 'incredulous commentator'. Oil and brakes are not a good combination - I assumed that was universally understood...?


 
I've long since ceased to be amazed at what others don't know and the things that I find I don't know even when I thought I did. I'll also talk internet 'smack' with the best of them I just don't think it's great on this section of the site. I know you can ask a question on other sites and be abused to high heaven, from your basic UTFS to specualtion about your immediate ancestry, and you can see that sort of traffic die right off on those sites.

Just my take on it, you don't need to agree


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## Linford (19 Jun 2012)

mickle said:


> Wrong. You shouldn't use automotive disc brake cleaner on bicycle brakes. Because they also contain oil as a surface protector. Car brakes being iron and all.


 

I've never had a problem with using this as a degreaser. I've got a couple of cans at home. I'll take a look at them later. The brake disk rotors on my motorbike are steel and they rust very easily.

I'd be surprised to see anyone using Stainless steel as rotor material as it is generally very soft.


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## mickle (19 Jun 2012)

Linford said:


> I've never had a problem with using this as a degreaser.


.... on the disc rotors of your bicycle?


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## zexel (19 Jun 2012)

mickle said:


> Wrong. You shouldn't use automotive disc brake cleaner on bicycle brakes. Because they also contain oil as a surface protector. Car brakes being iron and all.


 
You are wrong and are in fact talking bollards. Halfords brake cleaner doesn't contain any oil. It is designed to be sprayed on all brake components including rubber seals and pad material.

Edit: Apologies mickle, it shouldn't be sprayed directly onto pad material.


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## Linford (19 Jun 2012)

zexel said:


> You are wrong and are in fact talking bollards. Halfords brake cleaner doesn't contain any oil. It is designed to be sprayed on all brake components including rubber seals and pad material.
> 
> Edit: Apologies mickle, it shouldn't be sprayed directly onto pad material.


 

This is what Wynns say about their product. from the Halfords website



> *features & benefits of Wynn's Brake & Clutch Cleaner*
> 
> 
> Removes oil, brake fluid, grease & other dirt from metal parts
> ...


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## mickle (19 Jun 2012)

zexel said:


> You are wrong and are in fact talking bollards. Halfords brake cleaner doesn't contain any oil. It is designed to be sprayed on all brake components including rubber seals and pad material.


 
You clearly have a great deal of knowledge on the subject and you may well be right. And Im not saying that you're wrong. All I can say is that I aquired my information from a good friend who owns of the countries most highly respected mountain bike shops _and_ also happens to be one of Europe's top pro down-hill race team mechanics.


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## black'n'yellow (19 Jun 2012)

MacB said:


> I've long since ceased to be amazed at what others don't know and the things that I find I don't know even when I thought I did. I'll also talk internet 'smack' with the best of them I just don't think it's great on this section of the site. I know you can ask a question on other sites and be abused to high heaven, from your basic UTFS to specualtion about your immediate ancestry, and you can see that sort of traffic die right off on those sites.
> 
> Just my take on it, you don't need to agree


 
point taken - I was assuming too much.


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## Cubist (19 Jun 2012)

Once you've got the pads contaminated there's not much to do other than bin them and replace them. Superstar components are cheap replacements. At a fiver a pair that will be cheaper than squirting a can of Wynns at them. 

I use Wynns on my discs after I washed the bike as it gets additive residue off the discs. 

Halfords sell muc-off hydrating brake cleaner to reduce squeal. It eliminates squeal completely, along with 95% of the braking power. Avoid it at all costs.


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## Linford (19 Jun 2012)

Cubist said:


> Once you've got the pads contaminated there's not much to do other than bin them and replace them. Superstar components are cheap replacements. At a fiver a pair that will be cheaper than squirting a can of Wynns at them.
> 
> I use Wynns on my discs after I washed the bike as it gets additive residue off the discs.
> 
> Halfords sell muc-off hydrating brake cleaner to reduce squeal. It eliminates squeal completely, along with 95% of the braking power. Avoid it at all costs.


 
At a fiver a pop, replace and bin the old ones. It is a farly cheap lesson to learn. Brake pads on my motorbike are about £100 a set for the front wheel if I buy OEM ones


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## 007fair (19 Jun 2012)

Linford said:


> At a fiver a pop, replace and bin the old ones. It is a farly cheap lesson to learn. Brake pads on my motorbike are about £100 a set for the front wheel if I buy OEM ones


I think this is what I will be doing
Looks like I am not the first to be so stupid  http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=16366645


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## Night Train (19 Jun 2012)

When I was a mechanic, back in the early cretaceous, we only ever used petrol to clean brake parts (not pad or shoe friction material) as it would evaporate without leaving an oily residual. White sprites and similar would leave a residual that reduced friction and resulted in having to clean and change the pads or shoes.

Apprentices who used diesel for cleaning brakes were usually jet washed in the corner of the yard made to jet wash the underside of lorries!


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## zexel (19 Jun 2012)

Linford said:


> This is what Wynns say about their product. from the Halfords website


 
Thank you for informing me about the Wynn's product. 

I was talking specifically about 'Halfords' brake cleaner which had been referred to earlier in the thread, which advises, "... do NOT spray directly onto linings".


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## Linford (19 Jun 2012)

007fair said:


> I think this is what I will be doing
> Looks like I am not the first to be so stupid  http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=16366645


 
I've done a fair amount of work over the years both on disk and drum brakes with both cars and motorbikes (hydraulic systems). It is a bit of a learning curve - especiallly when stripping and rebuilding hydraulic calipers. Just have to work very very clean, and use red rubber grease on the rebuild.


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## Linford (19 Jun 2012)

zexel said:


> Thank you for informing me about the Wynn's product.
> 
> I was talking specifically about 'Halfords' brake cleaner which had been referred to earlier in the thread, which advises, "... do NOT spray directly onto linings".


 
I'd say that the Halfords stuff isn't then best product for the job.


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## Linford (19 Jun 2012)

Night Train said:


> When I was a mechanic, back in the early cretaceous, we only ever used petrol to clean brake parts (not pad or shoe friction material) as it would evaporate without leaving an oily residual. White sprites and similar would leave a residual that reduced friction and resulted in having to clean and change the pads or shoes.
> 
> Apprentices who used diesel for cleaning brakes were usually jet washed in the corner of the yard made to jet wash the underside of lorries!


 
The problem with using any oil based fuel as a cleaner or using copperslip is that it makes rubber swell - more specifically. the seals in the slave cylinders. they run at such tight tolerances anyway, any alteration in this can cause them to stick.

Most of the problems I've come across are becaause brine from the road salt gets into the seal grooves, starts growing crystals due to the heat cycles, and these crystals make the eseal pinch the pistons (seizure)

They aren't rocket science, but petrochem products are well iffy. Grease based Copperslip is sold as a brake anti squeel compound, but people use it all over. I've even had conversations with trained mechanics who don't understand this - which is a bit unnerving.


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## Night Train (19 Jun 2012)

At the time there wasn't much in the way of 'off the shelf products' for the job. Brake drums and discs were wiped round with a petrol damped rag to remove the greasy fingerprints during reassembly. Rubber seals on cylinders were refitted with brake fluid as a lube and then wiped clean with a dry rag after.

There are products for doing stuff like that now.

Copperslip, if used at all, was a very light smear on the back face of the brake pad where the piston contacted it. I've seen numpties smear it on the friction face of the pads!


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## Linford (19 Jun 2012)

The red rubber grease is usually made by Castrol or Fuch's (Silkoline)

People flogging it in ebay in small jars. It is used all the time by hydraulic engineers to keep things moving (as that is effectively what a brake system is), and stops the moisture getting in behind the seals. It is based on veg oil. Using it stretches the brake serviciing out to years and makes the brakes a lot more progresssive as it helps it all to slide easily.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18g-Castr...t=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item1e6d1c5b18


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## Linford (19 Jun 2012)

mickle said:


> .... on the disc rotors of your bicycle?


 

My old clunker has rubber V blocks. I''ll happily use the stuff to degrease whatever.

It is easy to get a greasy fingerprint on a rotor when manhandling motorbike wheels as they carry a bit of weight and are fiddly to align the spindles, spacers, sprocket carrier and calipers when sticking all back together.


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## green1 (19 Jun 2012)

Linford said:


> The problem with using any oil based fuel as a cleaner or using copperslip is that it makes rubber swell.


 Not necassairly, it depends on the compound of rubber is used. If it did all the downhole oil tools I design wouldn't work.


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## Linford (19 Jun 2012)

green1 said:


> Not necassairly, it depends on the compound of rubber is used. If it did all the downhole oil tools I design wouldn't work.


 
It is certainly the case in master and slave cylinder seals. THere is also a product made by comma which is a distilate, and is designed to make car windscreen seals swell to stop leaks when they begin the perish. I've got a can of it somewhere as well.

My missus works with someone who's o/h works for sperrey sun (sp) He does all the electronics in the business end of the drills IIRC


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## asterix (20 Jun 2012)

Ask a simple question..


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## screenman (21 Jun 2012)

Most car windscreens these days do not have seals, sounds like you have a can of snake oil there Linford.


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