# Help required, what 700c single speed wheels ?



## SS Retro (9 Mar 2013)

Help I want to replace the alexrims DA22 on unbranded hubs, for me they have been fine strong enough and reasonably light I ride for pleasure only usually around 30 to 50 miles around the lake district.

I have around £150 to spend the wheels must have a flip flop hub or the ability to take a screw on freewheel not just a fixed sprocket I have the following wheels in mind but could be way off the mark so all advice is welcome please 

Dolan navigators 
Weinmann DP18's on miche hubs
Weinman pegasus don't know about the painted braking surface?


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## rb58 (9 Mar 2013)

I got handbuilts from my LBS well within that budget...


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## biggs682 (9 Mar 2013)

+ 1 re above comment


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## SS Retro (9 Mar 2013)

biggs682 said:


> + 1 re above comment





rb58 said:


> I got handbuilts from my LBS well within that budget...


Ok so what did your LBS make up for you?


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## biggs682 (9 Mar 2013)

i supplied a pr of New Old Stock large flange incl flip flop rear hubs he supplied the rest all well within your budget


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## dave r (9 Mar 2013)

I have the Miche Xpress Track Wheels on my fixed, they are very good.

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/miche/xpress-track-wheelset-ec029342#features


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## Psyclist (9 Mar 2013)

+1 for Miche, their hubs are also very good for what you pay.


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## Scilly Suffolk (10 Mar 2013)

DP18 x Miche for £144.

The extra £25 for handbuilt, is well worth it.

The guy is on LFGSS and has sold lots there with no complaints.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (10 Mar 2013)

On one do dp18 on miche hubs cheap as chips.


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## Scilly Suffolk (10 Mar 2013)

£120 (as linked to by the OP) but not handbuilt, hence me saying the extra was worth it.


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## derrick (10 Mar 2013)

What makes handbuilt better, not all wheel builders are great, am sure there are a lot who are, but why are they better, i would have thought back in the old days a good wheel builder could make a better wheel than a machine, but todays factory built wheels have got to be as good or even better.


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## SportMonkey (10 Mar 2013)

I would avoid Weinmann for cheaper rims. The ones on my Masi got out of true on smooth roads and low mileage.


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## sancho (10 Mar 2013)

derrick said:


> What makes handbuilt better, not all wheel builders are great, am sure there are a lot who are, but why are they better, i would have thought back in the old days a good wheel builder could make a better wheel than a machine, but todays factory built wheels have got to be as good or even better.


 
As they say, time is money and when you have a factory mass producing wheels then that is exactly what they have in mind.

If time was not an issue then perhaps a machine could be built and programmed in the same way we build wheels. I don't know how long a machine takes to build a wheel but I guess it is less than 10 minutes from start to finish. I can't imagine that a machine would take the same steps and as many times as I do to build a wheel. When a wheel is nearing the final stage I go into a loop of steps (balance the tension, stress the wheel, true the wheel laterally, true the wheel radially, balance the tension, stress the wheel, dish the wheel......) until the wheel reaches an optimum balance between trueness and even tension. This means that the wheel can be ridden hard and for a long time without needing any attention.

Most factory wheels I see have too low and uneven tension which means these wheel will need attention before long. Not to forget the cost of buying the spares which most of the time are not just off the shelf spares. So, if you can still find them then you have to pay a premium for spokes, rims, etc.

The beauty with handmade wheels is that you can get hubs and rims that can be easily got off the shelf and in years to come you still can find rims to replace or spares for your hubs without braking the bank.


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## derrick (10 Mar 2013)

So what would be the equiverlent to Mavic Ksyrium Elite in handbuilts, that would be weight, price and strengh, looks wise you won't beat them.


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## SS Retro (10 Mar 2013)

SportMonkey said:


> I would avoid Weinmann for cheaper rims. The ones on my Masi got out of true on smooth roads and low mileage.


That was my thoughts weinmann is just an old name that used to have credentials bought by the Chinese, will drop dolan and e mail and see what hubs are on there navigators as I have heard good things about them.


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## SS Retro (10 Mar 2013)

The above said the V-sprint weinmann with a radial front and the weight of evidence on LFGGS is tempting will see what dolan say if there on miche I will be buying, probably!


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## SportMonkey (10 Mar 2013)

sancho said:


> As they say, time is money and when you have a factory mass producing wheels then that is exactly what they have in mind.
> 
> If time was not an issue then perhaps a machine could be built and programmed in the same way we build wheels. I don't know how long a machine takes to build a wheel but I guess it is less than 10 minutes from start to finish. I can't imagine that a machine would take the same steps and as many times as I do to build a wheel. When a wheel is nearing the final stage I go into a loop of steps (balance the tension, stress the wheel, true the wheel laterally, true the wheel radially, balance the tension, stress the wheel, dish the wheel......) until the wheel reaches an optimum balance between trueness and even tension. This means that the wheel can be ridden hard and for a long time without needing any attention.
> 
> ...


 
To create a system that can programmatically match your truing is rather simple, and that could build a wheel in less than ten minutes is also possible. Notably a machine could true a wheel far faster than a human and to much higher tolerance.

The bit I find difficult to work out how machines do is the lacing...


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## Manonabike (11 Mar 2013)

SportMonkey said:


> To create a system that can programmatically match your truing is rather simple, and that could build a wheel in less than ten minutes is also possible. Notably a machine could true a wheel far faster than a human and to much higher tolerance.
> 
> The bit I find difficult to work out how machines do is the lacing...


 
I agree, computers are very good and fast at doing repetitive tasks, they do that better than humans.

Rims are not perfect and the experience of a good builder can make the difference I think.

The other thing I think, when you order a handmade frame or say a pair of shoes, I bet you wouldn't say make me a pair of shoes just like those xyz. you'd probably order something that suits you and it's different to factory made shoes. I think people tend to miss that point too often.

There was a post that raised the issue of the expense and difficulty to source spare parts. That post reminded me of trying to source cones for my set of Shimano R550 wheels. It took me quite a while to find some cones for the front wheel but for the rear wheel Shimano not longer make cones. One single spoke is about £4 and they only sell them in black and for the rear wheel now so if I brake a spoke then I will not be able to replace it with a silver spoke. Even the nipples need their own spoke key. When I purchased these wheels some years ago, it never occurred to me than 5 years later I might not be able to find parts to repair them.

If I wanted to buy some nice wheels I will go for sure the handbuilt way simply because I can build them to suit my needs and with an eye in future maintenance.


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## Basil.B (11 Mar 2013)

My LBS built my rear, Miche hub on Mavic Open Pro rim.
Top notch!


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## zigzag (11 Mar 2013)

SS Retro, what is the reason you want to change your wheels - are the current ones worn out or too heavy? you can't go wrong building your own wheels, select the hubs, rims, spokes and lace them together. i was looking for some light, but durable ss wheels, but it appears they don't exist. in the end i sourced the parts (tensile flip flop hubs, cx-ray spokes 32/32 and kinlin xr-200 rims) and learned to build them myself. very happy with the result, but i've yet to test them once the winter is finally over. wheels weigh ~1.4kg, and it would be easy to shed another 150g if i wanted to.
you could build yourself a nice set of wheels for £150 - give it a go!


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## SportMonkey (11 Mar 2013)

Manonabike said:


> I agree, computers are very good and fast at doing repetitive tasks, they do that better than humans.
> 
> Rims are not perfect and the experience of a good builder can make the difference I think.
> 
> The other thing I think, when you order a handmade frame or say a pair of shoes, I bet you wouldn't say make me a pair of shoes just like those xyz. you'd probably order something that suits you and it's different to factory made shoes. I think people tend to miss that point too often.


 
Your point about shoes is moot, they are custom fit to the person, a wheel isn't. Oh, that and leather is a far less homogeneous material than a metal rim.

My point was actually computers are very good at doing very accurate tasks. With laser interferometry and IR heat mapping one could make a wheel to far higher tolerances than a person.

I do, however, wonder how many wheel building factories use this level of kit.


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## SS Retro (12 Mar 2013)

zigzag said:


> SS Retro, what is the reason you want to change your wheels - are the current ones worn out or too heavy? you can't go wrong building your own wheels, select the hubs, rims, spokes and lace them together. i was looking for some light, but durable ss wheels, but it appears they don't exist. in the end i sourced the parts (tensile flip flop hubs, cx-ray spokes 32/32 and kinlin xr-200 rims) and learned to build them myself. very happy with the result, but i've yet to test them once the winter is finally over. wheels weigh ~1.4kg, and it would be easy to shed another 150g if i wanted to.
> you could build yourself a nice set of wheels for £150 - give it a go!


You look to have done a excellent job and produced what could be called a classic wheelset. There's nothing wrong with the wheels I am riding, in appearance there very similar to yours they have only done around 500mile and are like new I just want deeper rims purely for aesthetics but if I can get better hubs too it's a bonus.


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