# Drink or no drink?



## Traininghigh (26 Jul 2014)

Traditionally, endurance sports had been encouraged to drink drink moderately high amounts in order to prevent loss of fluid. However, there is no clear consensus on the real need for these recommendations. In addition, the replacement of sodium through commercial beverages industry has popularized the commercial sports drinks with the idea of preventing hyponatremia. 
To this question several questions arise: 
1) What is optimum amount of liquid in each person and in different environmental conditions? 
2) replacement of minerals is required to prevent hyponatremia? 
3) What grade affects athletic performance dehydration? 

Based on these general questions, descriptive way you can target: 
1) As the temperature and the humidity is higher increases fluid loss of body weight loss increased. General recommendations suggest intake of 150-250 ml every 15 minutes of exercise (between 800-1200 ml per hour) to avoid exceeding 2% dehydration is related to the decrease in athletic performance (SJ Montain, 2008) . However, other studies point in the opposite direction showing that further dehydration to 2% does not reduce athletic performance (Maciejczyk M., 2014). A prominent scientist Tim Noakes in their, widely defends the intake of fluids and salts excessively is not necessary and that athletic performance and health is most at risk with increased intake of fluids and salts (T Noakes , 2011).
2) In a recent scientific review suggests that replenishment of fluid and minerals should be done according to individual responses and environmental conditions (Baker L, 2014). Importantly, increasingly, both athletic training and nutritional recommendations for individual response monitoring of physiological responses and improved athletic performance is employed. 
3) Parace important to highlight the importance of the duration of the sporting event to draw important conclusions on the subject. For example, it seems obvious to think that evidence of close to 1 or 2 hours duration, the replacement of fluids and salts is not as important as in testing more than 3 hours (T Noakes, 2011). The physiological explanation for this point is that despite the sodium lost through sweat, if we increase fluid intake rapidly increases the chance of developing hyponatremia. 

In conclusion, each athlete should estimate its perceptual and objective response of athletic performance test based on their own individual response with a higher intake of fluid and salt or less. 
Note that in the high-performance sports when exercise intensity is high there is an excessive attachment to the following popular beverage intake recommendations every 15 minutes or 1200ml per per hour. Therefore, it is probable risk in athletes ingesting high amount of fluid and salts.


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## jonnysnorocket (27 Jul 2014)

What? .


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## ianrauk (27 Jul 2014)

jonnysnorocket said:


> What? .


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## uclown2002 (27 Jul 2014)

Bizarre first post!


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## slowmotion (27 Jul 2014)

User said:


> In layman's terms, exactly how much beer does this mean?


 The SI unit is a Waterfront.


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## cosmicbike (27 Jul 2014)

Traininghigh said:


> Traditionally, endurance sports had been encouraged to drink drink moderately high amounts in order to prevent loss of fluid. However, there is no clear consensus on the real need for these recommendations. In addition, the replacement of sodium through commercial beverages industry has popularized the commercial sports drinks with the idea of preventing hyponatremia.
> To this question several questions arise:
> 1) What is optimum amount of liquid in each person and in different environmental conditions?
> 2) replacement of minerals is required to prevent hyponatremia?
> ...


Maybe...
Is tea ok, 'cos that's all I put in my bottles. With milk and 2.


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## User16625 (28 Jul 2014)

Drink when your thirsty, dont drink when your not. I have used this tactic all my life and Im still not dead.


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## byegad (28 Jul 2014)

I just sip as I ride. That doesn't make it scientific but at least my brain doesn't hurt.


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## Cubist (28 Jul 2014)

ianrauk said:


>



View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROcKPuPvcWU


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## the_mikey (28 Jul 2014)

I don't know what that is all about, but I always take plenty of water with me on a ride.


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## Joshua Plumtree (29 Jul 2014)

So, in conclusion, each and everyone of us will require slightly differing amounts of hydration, and this in turn will be affected by how hot or cold it is and how hard we're working.

How much did this research cost?


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## Saluki (29 Jul 2014)

I take a couple of bottles of water with me, I drink when required and top up when necessary. To top up, knock on someone's door and ask politely. Never been refused yet.
I am sure that there is a ton of science involved in proper hydration, I read most of your post @Traininghigh but was rapidly losing the will to live as I don't compete any more, I just ride my bike for as long as I like, when I like. It seems like a plan.

Welcome to CC by the way. Enjoy your riding.


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## Saluki (29 Jul 2014)

User said:


> I am not sure that training high will ever be back to answer that one.


Strange sort of a post for a troll though. Normally trolls post the whole 'all cyclists who wear padded shorts are a bit thick' or whatever type of posts. They don't come on here and give us collective brain ache about hydration.


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## KneesUp (29 Jul 2014)

Traininghigh said:


> 1) As the temperature and the humidity is higher increases fluid loss of body weight loss increased.
> 2) In a recent scientific review suggests that replenishment of fluid and minerals should be done according to individual responses and environmental conditions
> 3) ...highlight the importance of the duration of the sporting event to draw important conclusions on the subject. For example, it seems obvious to think that evidence of close to 1 or 2 hours duration, the replacement of fluids and salts is not as important as in testing more than 3 hours.



1) If it's hot you need to drink more
2) The amount you need to drink depends somewhat on how you respond to heat, and how hot it is
3) If you exercise for longer, you will need to drink more.
4) Why did no-one tell me at school it was this easy to be a scientist?


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## Traininghigh (30 Jul 2014)

here, the principal problem is that time before endurance athletes was encouraged to drink regularly during exercise without take in account the fitness level, the weather or time of event. Industries of drinks have promoted studies that reinforce their hypothesis but, human physiology is largely predisposed to drink great quantities of liquid. The question is: what reduce more the performance: deshydratation or overhydratation? And, what is the risks for the health?


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## srw (30 Jul 2014)

User said:


> I am not sure that training high will ever be back to answer that one.


After that last answer I think "training high" is even less likely to be a real person than <insert name to taste>


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## Traininghigh (30 Jul 2014)

I will not respond more absurd post. From autoreply anything, I'm Ph.D in exercise physiology with several scientific publications of relevance. Maybe your academic level is not enough to understand what is proposed in the post. Hydration clearly responds to certain physiological variables including the possibility of absorption of fluid and toleration and hyponatremia is unclear as to avoid ingesting sodium amount.


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## Shaun (30 Jul 2014)

From what I have seen so far Traininghigh has not tried to sell anything or spam CycleChat, however it does appear as though English is not his first language so perhaps do your best to understand him and if you're not sure, ask for clarification.

I'm 100% certain my writing on a Spanish forum wouldn't be as good as Traininghigh's English is here.


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## jarlrmai (30 Jul 2014)

Catalan


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## Cow Pie (30 Jul 2014)

jarlrmai said:


> Catalan



Now that opens up a can of worms. Stepping away to a safe distance and ducking for cover


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## jarlrmai (30 Jul 2014)

Even with things that might seem like "common sense" fundamental scientific research is required to explore the truth behind ingrained historical "wisdom" and also to further increase the nuance of understanding. This especially true in endeavours like sports where certain practises remain from before scientific inquiry was applied, some may be correct practise but could be further improved in different circumstances and some may be flat out wrong.


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## Cuchilo (30 Jul 2014)

Personal trainer ?


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## Traininghigh (31 Jul 2014)

Thanks. Exactly I'm not English and may well not express my ideas. Evidently assumed that all things must be proven and that is the purpose of this post. Hydration and hydration is an issue taken up by the large existing advertising about it. but. You see many marathon runners drinking every 15 minutes? O professional cyclists drinking 6 liters of liquid in one stage? Obviously not. And the risk is much higher when it comes to amateur athletes that these recommendations are based on daily investing money in substance is shown to improve performance and health.


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## jarlrmai (31 Jul 2014)

I think a re-evaluation of commonly followed hydration practises amongst athletes amatuer and professional. Perhaps bad or even dangerous practises are promoted by companies selling hydration products.


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## Joshua Plumtree (31 Jul 2014)

jarlrmai said:


> I think a re-evaluation of commonly followed hydration practises amongst athletes amatuer and professional. Perhaps bad or even dangerous practises are promoted by companies selling hydration products.



If that's part of the OP's motivation then I apologise for attempting to belittle his post.

It's just that I get a trifle irked on occasions with people who are so far up their own ar**s, they're unable or unwilling to see what's blindingly obvious to the rest of us.

However, I have to admit that sometimes what appears blindingly obvious isn't necessarily correct, and that's where the OP has a valid contribution to make.


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## jarlrmai (31 Jul 2014)

Academics writing in a foreign language often lack the ability to write non academically in that language.


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## Traininghigh (31 Jul 2014)

I am an athlete like you, train and sweat every day to improve. My professional work does not mean that I do not understand the unscientific athletes. I just wanted to open a debate over we are not 100% follow the recommendations that we sell with economic interests. For example, hypoxia yes or no? the answer is that it depends on the individual response of each person to the conditions of lower oxygen uptake. Also in this case it is obvious to think that hydration should not follow such strict guidelines but each must individually assess their response and tolerance to environmental conditions. The sensation of thirst itself is already an alarm but if we drink too much too used to the body fluid to demand for it in terms of heat and moisture not the recommended amount could be between 400 and 800 ml per hour at most.


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## creakyknees (1 Aug 2014)

There is a thread which is currently two above this entitled "Average liquid intake" which is covering very similar ground to this one. The summary seems to be if you look at the colour of your urine (in an appropriate situation) compared to normal (or Lucozade - see post) you can tell whether you are under or over hydrated.

I tend to the underhydrated as I'm old and unfit and sweat a lot so need to remember to drink more than I expect.


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## Traininghigh (2 Aug 2014)

It's correct (Creakykness) but the urine colour is not the most appropiate measure of dehydratation because this depend also of other factors as endocrine regulation via antidiuretic hormone... In addition, the age and the fitness condition determine the sweat range (quantity and composition).


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## smutchin (2 Aug 2014)

Traininghigh said:


> human physiology is largely predisposed to drink great quantities of liquid.



Especially on a Friday evening after a long, hard week at work. 



> And, what is the risks for the health?



Cycling home after the above is perhaps not best practice, healthwise.


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## smutchin (2 Aug 2014)

Traininghigh said:


> I just wanted to open a debate over we are not 100% follow the recommendations that we sell with economic interests.



Simplest answer to that is not to trust anything you see in adverts - ie "scientific" advice from people with a product to sell. I've become a lot more sceptical of taking advice since reading Ben Goldacre's Bad Science. 

On the specific subject of hydration, I think that most of us, most of the time, just respond to our body's signals - we feel thirsty, we have a drink. And those of us who cycle a lot, and cover very long distances (eg audax), tend to learn from experience what our body really needs. Perhaps this isn't the optimum approach, scientifically speaking, but since very few of us here are performance athletes, it possibly doesn't matter so much.

I often see fellow cyclists on rides measuring out their powders and potions, as if they are carrying out some highly precise scientific process, but I wonder how many, if any, of them really understand the science behind their energy drinks or if they've just been suckered in by advertising and cycling folklore. 

Taking an individualistic approach is good advice. I certainly don't think any of us should just copy what the pros do, because their physiology and work rate are entirely different to us mere mortals.


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## Traininghigh (3 Aug 2014)

The exercise assicated hyponatremia (EAH) occurs when the body retains too much water. There is no other cause. Not every who drinks to excess develops EAH. Simply excrete the excess fluid. But in a small proportion, the fluid is retained and this is faulty. This occurs because the regulation of the total body water in these individuals is faulty. Their brains continue to believe that they are becoming dehydrated, even as their cells become increasingly waterloagged. In these individuals, the hormone of water conservation, andtidiuretic hormone (ADH), continues to be secreted when its production should be turned off. This hormone is a relic of our recent evolution on the arid African Savannah. Once we had developed the capacity to sweat profusely, and thus potentially to warse water at fast rates during exercise, we needed to keep the potential water losses from the kidney to a minimum. ADH was the solution. But for some humans, this solution is faulty. It is exposed when they have access to too much fluid and have been told to drink as much as possible during exercise. Si in these unfortunate individuals, the excessive fluid they ingest in order to avoid dehydration accumulates in the blood, in the fluid surrounding the cells and inside the cells. The increase in their total water body content causes the body's sodium content to fall. Once this happens, water moves into the body's cells, causing them to swell. It's quite obvious that ingesting even more fluid in this state will only worse the problem..."
(Prof. Dr. Noakes, T. Challenging Beliefs. 2011)


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## just jim (3 Aug 2014)

You had me at hyponatremia...


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## 400bhp (3 Aug 2014)

Traininghigh said:


> The exercise assicated hyponatremia (EAH) occurs when the body retains too much water. There is no other cause. Not every who drinks to excess develops EAH. Simply excrete the excess fluid. But in a small proportion, the fluid is retained and this is faulty. This occurs because the regulation of the total body water in these individuals is faulty. Their brains continue to believe that they are becoming dehydrated, even as their cells become increasingly waterloagged. In these individuals, the hormone of water conservation, andtidiuretic hormone (ADH), continues to be secreted when its production should be turned off. This hormone is a relic of our recent evolution on the arid African Savannah. Once we had developed the capacity to sweat profusely, and thus potentially to warse water at fast rates during exercise, we needed to keep the potential water losses from the kidney to a minimum. ADH was the solution. But for some humans, this solution is faulty. It is exposed when they have access to too much fluid and have been told to drink as much as possible during exercise. Si in these unfortunate individuals, the excessive fluid they ingest in order to avoid dehydration accumulates in the blood, in the fluid surrounding the cells and inside the cells. The increase in their total water body content causes the body's sodium content to fall. Once this happens, water moves into the body's cells, causing them to swell. It's quite obvious that ingesting even more fluid in this state will only worse the problem..."
> (Prof. Dr. Noakes, T. Challenging Beliefs. 2011)



Fork in ell

I just want to drink my orange squash in peace.


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## fossyant (3 Aug 2014)

I haven't read this thread.

I thought it was about having tipples on red wine.. whhoooo.

No it's not. Boooo

It's by a poster that has a dubious user name ?

Corporation Pop is smashing !


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