# Newbie Audax question



## Darkmarkster (28 Mar 2010)

Forgive my lack of understand but as to now ive only ever done Sportives/Charity events & light touring but ive been seeing more and more things about Audax events but I dont really understand what they are or how they differ?

Do you basically start off on a set distance and check in at control points to get your card stamped? Is it a race? and ive noticed on a lot of pages they have a minimum speed level?

Im considering doing a beginners one but I dont want to sign up for something then be unable to keep up with everyone else or be at the same standard etc.


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## Dave Davenport (28 Mar 2010)

It's not a race, you just have to follow the route (using the route sheet, no signage like in sportives) and stay within the average speed range stated, getting your card stamped or picking up the required info if it's an unmanned control as you go. The slowest speed required is usually pretty slow but don't forget it's total time and even short stops add up. You're expected to be a lot more self sufficiant than you are in charity rides/sportives but it is much cheaper.


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## Darkmarkster (28 Mar 2010)

Ah right i see! do people usually do these solo or in groups? Is it common to see someone cycling alone on one of the rides or do people mainly bunch together etc?


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## Dave Davenport (28 Mar 2010)

A few groups of various sizes will probably form but they'll be a lone riders as well. It's a mixed bag from younger guys on race bikes treating it like a sportive to older riders who look like they've been on a bike (probably the same one) for the last 40 years.


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## Darkmarkster (28 Mar 2010)

Dave Davenport said:


> A few groups of various sizes will probably form but they'll be a lone riders as well. It's a mixed bag from younger guys on race bikes treating it like a sportive to older riders who look like they've been on a bike (probably the same one) for the last 40 years.



I see,it really does sound like something I would like to try,I like the idea of a card that gets stamped,and badges etc,some sort of recognition for what youve actually done,I have no problem doing 100/120 mile events but might start off with a 50km audax to get used to what its like.

I was thinking about doing this 53km "Leap into the Aire" one in West Yorkshire in April as my first one.

http://www.westyorkshiresr.org.uk/


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## Arch (28 Mar 2010)

Darkmarkster said:


> I was thinking about doing this 53km "Leap into the Aire" one in West Yorkshire in April as my first one.
> 
> http://www.westyorkshiresr.org.uk/



I sent my entry for that off last week - maybe see you there!


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## Darkmarkster (28 Mar 2010)

cool,ill let you know soon if im doing it for sure.

On these shorter distance ones do you usually get people who blast off and leave everyone behind as they see the distance as a "warm up" distance or regular cyclists who are just out to enjoy it?


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## Arch (28 Mar 2010)

I have no idea, it'll be my first Audax!

I suspect you get all sorts - people who whizz off and people like me getting used to hilly stuff..


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## Darkmarkster (28 Mar 2010)

i see,yeah you get those people at the sportives that I do as well,who laugh and go see ya at the start and then two things happen,either they are really good and they pass you coming back as the rest of the participants are nearing the finish or you see them being treated by St Johns ambulance riders about 3 miles later down the road as they blasted off at full pelt showing off and collapsed


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## Arch (28 Mar 2010)

Yeah, that's the sort of thing!

I'm a slow and steady type, and being based in York, not used to serious hills, which is why I'm doing the Aire ride, and not the Spring into the Dales the same day - I should be fine with the longer distance, and would be if it was flat....

But I'm in training for a little thing called LEL:

https://www.cyclechat.net/


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## Darkmarkster (28 Mar 2010)

ah sounds cool! your based in York? I spent a lot of time up there for one reason or another the year before last,Mainly in the Evil eye bar and Lendals cellar


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## Arch (28 Mar 2010)

Darkmarkster said:


> ah sounds cool! your based in York? I spent a lot of time up there for one reason or another the year before last,Mainly in the Evil eye bar and Lendals cellar



Ah, I know them well... Well, fairly well, I wouldn't want to give the impression I drink a lot....


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## Darkmarkster (28 Mar 2010)

lol aw,there were 2 tea shops as well,a small one near the Minster and another one that did themed cakes for hallowean and chocolate vegetables and everything but for the life of me I cannot remember what it was called,not that I looked through the window hungrily like charlie and the chocolate factory on a day to day basis or anything


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## Arch (28 Mar 2010)

Darkmarkster said:


> lol aw,there were 2 tea shops as well,a small one near the Minster and another one that did themed cakes for hallowean and chocolate vegetables and everything but for the life of me I cannot remember what it was called,not that I looked through the window hungrily like charlie and the chocolate factory on a day to day basis or anything



The themed one sounds like Bettys.... When I first moved to York as a student, various friends and rellies came to stay, and in exchange for lodgings, I'd get them to take me to Bettys for tea....


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## Darkmarkster (28 Mar 2010)

thats the one! I was only really up there as I was dating someone at the time who was studying at York St Johns Uni,we used to stay just up from Fountains learning centre on the road that now has a drop in centre or something there.


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## vernon (28 Mar 2010)

Arch said:


> I sent my entry for that off last week - maybe see you there!



It's a rude awakening for you if you are not used to hills. It's manageable - I can haul my 22 stone carcass around the route though I can't say that I enjoy all of the route. The post ride catering is legendary though.

I received my routesheet yesterday.


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## Darkmarkster (28 Mar 2010)

I take it youve done it a few times? Whats the route like? What sort of times did you all do it in?


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## GrasB (28 Mar 2010)

Darkmarkster said:


> i see,yeah you get those people at the sportives that I do as well,who laugh and go see ya at the start and then two things happen,either they are really good and they pass you coming back as the rest of the participants are nearing the finish


Sounds like my first Audax, I was with 3 other strong riders. We knew the course, we knew how strong we were & had a plan to get close to the top time limit & we did, even if we were held at the first manned checkpoint for being to early  which mucked up our planned pace over the entire course.


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## Darkmarkster (28 Mar 2010)

lol nice,so what exactly happens at the control points? you get your card stamped or?


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## PalmerSperry (28 Mar 2010)

Darkmarkster said:


> lol nice,so what exactly happens at the control points? you get your card stamped or?



Basically yes ... There might be someone the organiser has arranged to be there with a stamp, there might just be some willing retail establishment doing it for the organiser (in which case I tend to think it's the decent thing to do to buy something!) or it might be what's called an "info control". For the latter there's a question on the card like "What year was the mill built?" and you need to write down the answer when you get to the appropriate point.

Which leads to something you need to remember to bring with you - namely something to write with! Not that I failed to do this on my first audax, obviously!  

Hmm ... Actually just remembered that on the Boxing Day 100 in 2006 one of the controls was to merely get a receipt from somewhere in Malton, so that's a possibility too.


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## Darkmarkster (28 Mar 2010)

ah i see that sounds cool though,Im assuming that on the longer rides i.e 24 hours and such it would work on the basis of you deciding when to factor in a sleep stop or cycling into the night etc?


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## GrasB (28 Mar 2010)

The way it worked for us was someone checked the intermediary point answers, wrote a time & signed the card. Yes on the longer ones you have to factor in sleep, eating properly, toilet breaks etc.

From someone near the end point, you had to go passed on a main road visible from the start/finnish then back to the finish point, we looked like we were competing in a team TT not an Audax .


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## Darkmarkster (28 Mar 2010)

it all sounds very interesting,Im definitly interested in giving it a go.The "Leap in the Aire" one seems like a good starting point for me to get into them. 

As this is just a short one im assuming that I will be fine just using my commuting road bike with a saddlebag and the usual essentials? or are there requirements that I need to follow and specific items to bring/wear?


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## vernon (28 Mar 2010)

For most of the shorter audaxes a saddlebag is de rigeur.
Make sure that you have a simple toolkit and pump plus puncture repair outfir or spare tubes. A mobile phone is useful to let the organiser know if you withdraw. For this particular ride low gears are helpful. You might like to while away some time by getting the route sheet from the link that Arch has posted and try to create the route in www.mapmyride.com and have a look at the gradient profile. The hills are long drags.


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## vernon (28 Mar 2010)

Darkmarkster said:


> lol nice,so what exactly happens at the control points? you get your card stamped or?



The control points are in cafes and you get either a stamp on the card or a sticker to stick in it.


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## vernon (28 Mar 2010)

Darkmarkster said:


> I take it youve done it a few times? Whats the route like? What sort of times did you all do it in?



I have done it in five and a half hours finishing in my customary lanterne rouge position in hilly events.

The ride has a minimum average speed of 8km/hr.


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## Darkmarkster (29 Mar 2010)

vernon said:


> I have done it in five and a half hours finishing in my customary lanterne rouge position in hilly events.
> 
> The ride has a minimum average speed of 8km/hr.



Ah cool,do you happen to know what the cutoff time limit is? probably about 6/7 hours or something?


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## Nuncio (29 Mar 2010)

Darkmarkster said:


> As this is just a short one im assuming that I will be fine just using my commuting road bike with a saddlebag and the usual essentials? or are there requirements that I need to follow and specific items to bring/wear?


As mentioned above, bring a pen.

Audax cycle requirements: "5.3 Machines: (i) Any kind of cycle may be ridden provided that it is propelled solely by human muscular effort." I'm guessing you will be OK with that! Best advice: Use whatever bike you think you will be most comfortable on.

Also note :
"(iii) An event organiser may require full mudguards to be fitted to bicycles and to the single front wheel of tricycles. The requirement for mudguards on an event must be indicated in the AUK Calendar and in the event literature." A quick look at the calendar shows that the 'Leap into the Aire' is not one of them.
Rule (ii) by the way, is that it is your responsibility that the cycle is roadworthy and that it complies with the RTA.

The calendar also shows that the min ave speed is 8kph so you'll have about 6:40. Max speed is 20kph or about 2:40.


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## Scoosh (29 Mar 2010)

There's an excellent Intro and FAQ on many things Audax here. Many of the Audax crowd hang around on that other forum ....

I did my first Audax last year, then my second ... it kind of gets to you. 

Each person is riding "on their own", though often you will find someone of similar pace and ride with them for a while; if they stop, there is no need to stay together - you can go on if you wish. You can choose to ride in company or by yourself.

Don't expect feeding stations, tech support nor any other external back-up.


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## beastie (30 Mar 2010)

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Audax-Leap-Into-the-Aire


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## ChristinaJL (30 Mar 2010)

I quite fancy trying a sportive/audax soon, so will be watching with interest to see how you get on with your first one. 

Not sure how to train for one though, as with 2 small kids, most time I get to go out during the week is 1-2 hours per ride.  I must plan some longer rides with husband/kids as back up.


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## jimboalee (30 Mar 2010)

With an 8 kmh minimum speed, you may decide to walk up the hills and freewheel down the hills, ie no pedalling at all.


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## Scoosh (30 Mar 2010)

jimboalee said:


> With an 8 kmh minimum speed, you may decide to walk up the hills and freewheel down the hills, ie no pedalling at all.


 !


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## Greenbank (30 Mar 2010)

jimboalee said:


> With an 8 kmh minimum speed, you may decide to walk up the hills and freewheel down the hills, ie no pedalling at all.



<OldMathsTrickQuestion>

If you walk up a hill at 4kph how fast do you have to go down the other side to average 8kph overall?


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## Darkmarkster (30 Mar 2010)

who needs speed readings,just cycle so hard that there is tears coming from your eyes and your teeth are gritted


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## Arch (30 Mar 2010)

vernon said:


> It's a rude awakening for you if you are not used to hills. It's manageable - I can haul my 22 stone carcass around the route though I can't say that I enjoy all of the route. *The post ride catering is legendary though.*
> 
> I received my routesheet yesterday.



This is all I need to know...

I can do hills. Slowly. But round here is very flat, so it takes me a while to get acclimatised. I do go up to Northumberland once a year for a regular weekend gathering, and I cope ok - and that's pretty hilly.

darkmarkster - I expect to have tears in my teeth and my eyes gritted....

Palmersperry, please tell me you got your Malton receipt from the String shop!


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## Darkmarkster (30 Mar 2010)

well as long as they are gritted thats all that matters! So it seems that we have quite a few of us up for making this our first Audax then?


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## PalmerSperry (30 Mar 2010)

Arch said:


> This is all I need to know...
> 
> I can do hills. Slowly. But round here is very flat, so it takes me a while to get acclimatised. I do go up to Northumberland once a year for a regular weekend gathering, and I cope ok - and that's pretty hilly.



Cycle up from York to Coxwold, cycle over the hill that is Coxwold? Repeat as often as desired! :-) You can even "justify" it as rec'y for part of the LEL route? 



Arch said:


> Palmersperry, please tell me you got your Malton receipt from the String shop!



Alas, no ... It was from the Co-Op(?) and probably for a Red-Bull!


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## Arch (30 Mar 2010)

PalmerSperry said:


> Cycle up from York to Coxwold, cycle over the hill that is Coxwold? Repeat as often as desired! :-) You can even "justify" it as rec'y for part of the LEL route?



Ah yes, by way of Crayke....


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## vernon (31 Mar 2010)

beastie said:


> http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Audax-Leap-Into-the-Aire



I'd forgotten that I'd created that route trace.


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## PalmerSperry (31 Mar 2010)

Arch said:


> Ah yes, by way of Crayke....



Ah yes, Crayke is in fact the hill I meant! It's been a while, strangely enough, since I cycled there (2007 maybe?) and I got my villages confused!


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## Greenbank (31 Mar 2010)

PalmerSperry said:


> Cycle up from York to Coxwold, cycle over the hill that is Coxwold? Repeat as often as desired! :-) You can even "justify" it as rec'y for part of the LEL route?



Crayke almost certainly won't be on the route for LEL 2013 as it's very unlikely that Coxwold would be used as a control again. It coped fine for last year's LEL but with the proposed increase in numbers the facilities available just won't be able to cope.

Current route in that area is more likely to be Pocklington, Thirsk, Barnard Castle, ... No idea of the actual controls yet.

It could all change, nothing will be finalised for quite a while.

I did a recce of the LEL route in March 2009 and various bits changed quite considerably between then and July (Canonbie was still being considered as a control).


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## Nuncio (31 Mar 2010)

I think I heard that one control had already been booked. Can't remember where though. It's going to happen.


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## Arch (31 Mar 2010)

Crayke was a bit of Arallsop's account I could really relate to - when he hopes like mad he's going round, and it turns out he's going over. Uncle Phil took us on a ride out that way, and it was lovely and flat until Crayke, and I struggled up the first bit, to be confronted with a left turn that kept going up!

I made it though. Just.


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## jimboalee (1 Apr 2010)

Sorry folks. I'm doing the Staffordshire Lanes 100 on 18th April.

1.25 AAA points on a 53 km ride sounds interesting though. A bit like riding round the black country on a Sunday morning...

I'd have thought the 'Grimps' would be on the Castleton Classic...


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## PalmerSperry (1 Apr 2010)

Arch said:


> Crayke was a bit of Arallsop's account I could really relate to - when he hopes like mad he's going round, and it turns out he's going over. Uncle Phil took us on a ride out that way, and it was lovely and flat until Crayke, and I struggled up the first bit, to be confronted with a left turn that kept going up!



I recall being very worried on my first ever audax in 2006, as we seemed to be heading in the direction of Crayke and after ~60-70km my legs wheren't sure that conquering Crayke was still an option. Fortunately, there was a right turn before Crayke for which I remain still thankful!


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## Amanda P (1 Apr 2010)

I don't want to worry anyone, but Crayke is going to be little preparation for LITD if Colin's ride the other weekend is anything to go by. I don't think there were _any_ flat bits. Even the floor of the tea room was on a slope!

Even if you linked up all the nasty hills in North Yorks (Caulkley's Bank - short but nasty; Terrington Bank, Rosedale Chimney, White Horse Bank... and a few of the Wolds ones) there's still enough flat between them to give you a rest.

West Yorks is another place altogether. They don't know the meaning of "horizontal" over there.


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## Fiona N (1 Apr 2010)

Arch said:


> ...
> 
> I can do hills. Slowly. But round here is very flat, so it takes me a while to get acclimatised. !




Living in the Lakes, I have the opposite problem - I'm so used to pedalling hard for a while then getting a rest on the downhill that I find flat places, where you have to pedal continuously, really hard work


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## Arch (1 Apr 2010)

Fiona N said:


> Living in the Lakes, I have the opposite problem - I'm so used to pedalling hard for a while then getting a rest on the downhill that I find flat places, where you have to pedal continuously, really hard work



That is true - I was exhausted coming back from a ride the other week, when I couldn't stop pedalling for 20 miles, thanks to flatness and a headwind.

There's a happy medium for me, where hills are rolling - not too sudden or steep to get up, and crucially, not so steep that I lose the advantage braking the whole way down the other side.

The road between Full Sutton and Pocklington, for anyone that's been along it with me, is perfect. Flat bits, interspersed with shortish ups and swooping downs. And a couple of great cafes once you get to Pock...


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## PpPete (1 Apr 2010)

Arch 
Havn't you been persuaded into adding a fixed wheel to your stable yet?
'Tis excellent training tha knows....


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## jimboalee (1 Apr 2010)

Arch said:


> That is true - I was exhausted coming back from a ride the other week, when I couldn't stop pedalling for 20 miles, thanks to flatness and a headwind.
> 
> There's a happy medium for me, where hills are rolling - not too sudden or steep to get up, and crucially, not so steep that I lose the advantage braking the whole way down the other side.
> 
> The road between *Full Sutton and Pocklington*, for anyone that's been along it with me, is perfect. Flat bits, interspersed with shortish ups and swooping downs. And a couple of great cafes once you get to Pock...



That's the road with an airfield at each end.

I hear the RAF groundcrew used to semaphore messages between the runways.


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## Arch (1 Apr 2010)

jimboalee said:


> That's the road with an airfield at each end.
> 
> I hear the RAF groundcrew used to semaphore messages between the runways.



It is. And last time I passed that way, I had a rather good view of the undercarriage of a plane taking off from Full Sutton. Being recumbent, it's easier to see things overhead!

Porkypete: no, not yet.... Nothing more than the mildest hankerings. Really running out of room in the flat though.


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## jimboalee (1 Apr 2010)

Arch said:


> It is. And last time I passed that way, I had a rather good view of the undercarriage of a plane taking off from Full Sutton. Being recumbent, it's easier to see things overhead!
> 
> Porkypete: no, not yet.... Nothing more than the mildest hankerings. Really running out of room in the flat though.



I work at an old airfield. RAF Gaydon. RAF Gaydon was where planes took off to drop bombs on the battle of Edge Hill.


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## Arch (1 Apr 2010)

jimboalee said:


> I work at an old airfield. RAF Gaydon. RAF Gaydon was where planes took off to drop bombs on the battle of Edge Hill.



That is old then....


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## jimboalee (2 Apr 2010)

Arch said:


> That is old then....



April fool


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## Arch (2 Apr 2010)

You don't think I believed it?

I may be a mere archaeologist not a historian, but even I know Edge Hill predated the Wright Brothers...


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## jimboalee (2 Apr 2010)

Arch said:


> You don't think I believed it?
> 
> I may be a mere archaeologist not a historian, but even I know Edge Hill predated the Wright Brothers...



"Two wrongs don't make a right, but two Wrights made an aeroplane".


True...
An American tourist was on the open topped bus in Stratford upon Avon. The bus passes Mary Arden's house in Wilmcote.
Before reaching Will's mum's place, the bus passes over the railway bridge where the announcer states "a fine example of a preserved Gt Western Railway station".
The septic tank chirps up "Hey, that was handy for her, having a railroad station just here".

Silence.


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## Arch (3 Apr 2010)

An American apparently once asked a guide at the Minster, "Is this building pre-war?"

After a dignified pause, he replied, "Madam, this building is pre-America...."


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## ColinJ (3 Apr 2010)

Arch said:


> It is. And last time I passed that way, I had a rather good view of the undercarriage of a plane taking off from Full Sutton. Being recumbent, it's easier to see things overhead!





jimboalee said:


> I work at an old airfield. RAF Gaydon. RAF Gaydon was where planes took off to drop bombs on the battle of Edge Hill.


My dad took me to an air display at RAF Gaydon when I were a lad. It was all very interesting until a boring bit when he told me to look up at the lightnings. Well, I didn't really see the point because there weren't any black clouds in the sky so there wasn't much chance of a thunderstorm. 

I was staring up at the white clouds and wondering what the point of all this was when - *KABANG* - two English Electric Lightnings shot past each other from opposite ends of the runway, about 100 feet above my head and about 50 feet apart! 

I hadn't noticed them coming and to say that it gave me a fright would be grossly understating it - I was still shaking about 10 minutes later. It was an impressive stunt but if the pilots had got it wrong they would have killed hundreds of people in the huge crowd below them. I don't reckon that Health & Safety would allow it these days...


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## ColinJ (3 Apr 2010)

Uncle Phil said:


> I don't want to worry anyone, but Crayke is going to be little preparation for LITD if Colin's ride the other weekend is anything to go by. I don't think there were _any_ flat bits. Even the floor of the tea room was on a slope!
> 
> Even if you linked up all the nasty hills in North Yorks (Caulkley's Bank - short but nasty; Terrington Bank, Rosedale Chimney, White Horse Bank... and a few of the Wolds ones) there's still enough flat between them to give you a rest.
> 
> West Yorks is another place altogether. They don't know the meaning of "horizontal" over there.


The first bit was _almost_ horizontal (-ish)! 







This is the profile of the new (2009/2010) SITD route...


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## PpPete (3 Apr 2010)

ColinJ said:


> My dad took me to an air display at RAF Gaydon when I were a lad. It was all very interesting until a boring bit when he told me to look up at the lightnings. Well, I didn't really see the point because there weren't any black clouds in the sky so there wasn't much chance of a thunderstorm.
> 
> I was staring up at the white clouds and wondering what the point of all this was when - *KABANG* - two English Electric Lightnings shot past each other from opposite ends of the runway, about 100 feet above my head and about 50 feet apart!
> 
> I hadn't noticed them coming and to say that it gave me a fright would be grossly understating it - I was still shaking about 10 minutes later. It was an impressive stunt but if the pilots had got it wrong they would have killed hundreds of people in the huge crowd below them. I don't reckon that Health & Safety would allow it these days...




A friend of mine from the USAF always described Lightnings as "machines for converting jet fuel into noise"

Was once buzzed by a Tornado in "terrain following mode", not on that road though, somewhere in the wilds of Scotland. Even in a car the noise was un-f***king-believable.


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## Arch (3 Apr 2010)

Ah, the Lightning...

A friend told me a story once, apparently happened to a friend of his. This chap drove lorries for the RAF, and was watching a ground crew load a plane (presumably a fuselage only, it might have been after a hasty landing) on a flat bed truck once, and noticed they were doing something wrong, something about how they were strapping it down would damage it. They ignored his input, so he went and found the pilot, who raised hell, and thanked him for stepping in.

Some months, or it may have been years, later, he was in an airbase Mess, a bit down because his job had taken him away from home with no chance of getting back home for his wedding anniversary. The same pilot was there, and recognised him and said "I'm flying back up that way, I'll give you a lift...."

He was flying a two seat trainer Lightning... That's some lift!

If you have the cash, you can go up in one, in South Africa.


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## jimboalee (7 Apr 2010)

Arch said:


> Ah, the Lightning...
> 
> A friend told me a story once, apparently happened to a friend of his. This chap drove lorries for the RAF, and was watching a ground crew load a plane (presumably a fuselage only, it might have been after a hasty landing) on a flat bed truck once, and noticed they were doing something wrong, something about how they were strapping it down would damage it. They ignored his input, so he went and found the pilot, who raised hell, and thanked him for stepping in.
> 
> ...



Ah, the Lightning...

Two engines with with two wings bolted to them with two i***ts strapped on top.


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## jimboalee (7 Apr 2010)

You taxi for take off and look upwards. The sky is a nice skyblue colour.

You take off and start climbing. When you get your stomach back from your anus, you look up and the sky is a nice royal blue colour.

You level off. You look up and the sky is a nice navy blue colour.


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