# Incident In Netherton, Liverpool - Including 'electric bike'



## ebikeerwidnes (19 May 2021)

Hi all
found this in the echo
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/rider-taken-hospital-after-modified-20631204

sounds like a modified mountain bike collided with a lampost and fell off

but there must be more to it than that as there are WAY to many cops present for that

I'm expecting a flood of anti ebike rubbish to appear in the comments etc
anyone know what is going on???
If the 'all electric bike need to be banned as one passed me at 200mph' community start posting stuff it would be nice to have some facts!

thanks


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## Bobario (19 May 2021)

No idea what is/was happening but the cars appear to have Matrix squad stickers in the rear windows. Matrix is the Merseyside police anti-gang unit. Could be the rider was a known gang member, the police wanted a word and he decided he had more important things to do and sped off straight into the lamp post. Other scenario's are also possible.


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## dodgy (19 May 2021)

Appalling writing standards, unless the ebike became sentient.
"Police said the converted mountain bike smashed into the lamppost just before 10am."
They need to read this https://www.rc-rg.com/guidelines


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## ebikeerwidnes (19 May 2021)

dodgy said:


> Appalling writing standards, unless the ebike became sentient.
> "Police said the converted mountain bike smashed into the lamppost just before 10am."
> They need to read this https://www.rc-rg.com/guidelines


Sorry - should have been more clear
This is from the Liverpool Echo - as written in Manchester - this is good for them!!!!


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## HMS_Dave (19 May 2021)

Im not entirely sure what relevance calling it a "Modified bike" has to do with anything unless they happen to know it is an illegal system (higher than 250w) and is even modified at all...


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## ebikeerwidnes (19 May 2021)

HMS_Dave said:


> Im not entirely sure what relevance calling it a "Modified bike" has to do with anything unless they happen to know it is an illegal system (higher than 250w) and is even modified at all...


Could be a normal legal DIY mod to a mountain bike
but the Police presence and the fact that it seems to have collided with a lampost in a car park suggests something else!!!


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## HMS_Dave (19 May 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Could be a normal legal DIY mod to a mountain bike
> but the Police presence and the fact that it seems to have collided with a lampost in a car park suggests something else!!!


Indeed. That's gutter journalism for you. All the article really says is man on "modified bike" hits a lampost! The pictures raise the questions but the journalist doesn't!
It's achieved exactly what it was supposed to do. Attract clicks from people such as this person in the comments of that article

"It's ridiculously easy to change a normal bike into an ebike that far outstrips the legally permitted engine size and max speed.

The police need to be clamping down on ebikes. Some can go as fast as a motorbike, with no requirements for test, insurance, safety kit etc."


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## dodgy (19 May 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Sorry - should have been more clear
> This is from the Liverpool Echo - as written in Manchester - this is good for them!!!!



You misunderstand. Read my post again. The Echo appears to imply the bike rode itself into a lampost. We see this sloppy writing by journalists all too often.


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## dodgy (19 May 2021)

And here's another one from just a few hours ago 
View: https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1395040909398585347


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## Darius_Jedburgh (19 May 2021)

Leaving aside the journalism, I used to work in Netherton. To call it an area of sink estates would be giving it glamour it doesn't deserve.
It was a culture shock to say the least. I would be very surprised if the bike hadn't been modded.
All the cliches about scousers are frequently wide of the mark, but not in Netherton. A scary place for the unwary.


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## cougie uk (19 May 2021)

Hopefully the press will adopt these guidelines. 

https://pressgazette.co.uk/road-collision-reporting-guidelines-finalised/


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## irw (19 May 2021)

dodgy said:


> You misunderstand. Read my post again. The Echo appears to imply the bike rode itself into a lampost. We see this sloppy writing by journalists all too often.



This is the Liverpool Echo- a complete and miserable waste of paper and energy...even the Bristol Post probably has more credence....


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## dodgy (19 May 2021)

irw said:


> This is the Liverpool Echo- a complete and miserable waste of paper and energy...even the Bristol Post probably has more credence....


Yep, they ran out of news a long time ago. It's just a poundland version of buzzfeed now.


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## Drago (20 May 2021)

As a user group we should be strenuously distancing ourself from illegal ebikes, and encouraging the press to refer to them in correct terms as electeic mopeds or motorcycles.

They are going to end up getting legal ebikes regulated at this rate, and this is why such "harmless" talk about derestriction or stupid power conversions seriously boils my piss. The further we can separate ourselves as a user group, and the greater the public understanding we can cultivate, then hopefully we might be able to avoid it.

Remember - when things go wrong the British way is invariably to punish the innocent with greater restrictions, licencing, etc, because its easier than punishing the perps and the politicians can tell the gullible masses how hard they've "cracked down" on the problem.


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## dodgy (20 May 2021)

Drago said:


> As a user group we should be strenuously distancing ourself from illegal ebikes, and encouraging the press to refer to them in correct terms as electeic mopeds or motorcycles.


Agreed


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## Ming the Merciless (20 May 2021)

That’s an illegal moped not a bike


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## T4tomo (20 May 2021)

> One witness at the scene suggested the cyclist was being chased but police have said there is nothing to suggest this on its logs. they have erased this off all their logs


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## fossyant (20 May 2021)

These 'stealth bombers' seem to be very popular at the moment. Basically electric MX bikes with pedals. Seriously quick, and totally silent


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## dodgy (20 May 2021)

fossyant said:


> These 'stealth bombers' seem to be very popular at the moment. Basically electric MX bikes with pedals. Seriously quick, and totally silent



Seen a few on the Burton Marsh Greenway (NCN568) lately, not sure if it's just one guy or a number of them. But they whip along there at easily 40mph. Probably what will happen is that there will be an accident one day and the RSPB will just shut the route * rather than persuade the police to do something about it. 

* They've done this before during lockdown (of all times!).


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## Ste T. (20 May 2021)

dodgy said:


> Appalling writing standards, unless the ebike became sentient.


 To be fair, this is the Liverpool Echo.
I once read a main headline saying "Man sees a dead body walking to work".
I thought there's one in the eye for anyone going on about lazy Scousers. We've got work ethic so strong we still carry on after we've kicked the bucket.


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## mustang1 (22 May 2021)

There is some glaringly missing info I in the news:
What kind of lampost was it?
How tall was it?
Was it upgraded to LED or still had the old lighting system?
Was the light on/off/flashing at the time of the incident?
What colour is it?
What brand is it?

This is pathetic.


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## CXRAndy (22 May 2021)

Looking at it from a use point It was how the bike was ridden and the possibility of being pursued by the police that most led to the rider hitting a lamppost


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## ericmark (29 May 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> That’s an illegal moped not a bike


You are correct, there is no such thing as an illegal e-bike, as if it does not follow the rules it is a motor bike or moped, it may be an unregistered motor bike, or have many other items which don't comply with the law.

The problem is over the years the rules have changed, and they are not in the main retrospective, so design date matters, also there are ways for example to reduce the output of a 350 watt motor to 250 watt, simply by setting the software in the controller. So a hub showing 350 watt is not automatic in turning the unit into a motor bike. Same with the walk assist, it should stop at 4 MPH, and the road speed limited to 16 MPH, but how can the police actually know?

It is clear with 1000 watt on the hub it is not going to be simply turned down in the software, but 350 watt, it would need to go on a dynamonitor, which is likely if involved in a crash where police attend, but stopping cyclist on a cycle path to check motor outputs, do you really think that's worth it?

If on the road what is the charge going to be? riding without insurance, without an MOT, this it the point with the scooters, it is a motor vehicle so needs brakes on both wheels, and has to pass a MOT it is not an e-bike so is not licence free. So riding one will put points on your driving licence, the same would apply is a motor bike is ridden without being registered and insurance etc. 

But easy with an old motor vehicle with no seat belts, it has been registered so there is a clear date when it was registered so also clear what rules it follows, but since there is not certificate of newness or any other thing to show the age of an e-bike, there is also nothing to show which version of the rules it must follow. 

The old story about the age of an axe, it is 1000 years old, it has had the head changed and the shaft changed over the years. So nothing now on the axe more than 5 years old, but still considered as family heirloom. 

So I change the frame and change the wheels but the originally bike I got when I was 10, the only thing 60 years old now is the drink holder, but still a 60 year old bike.


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## Dec66 (29 May 2021)

Darius_Jedburgh said:


> Leaving aside the journalism, I used to work in Netherton. To call it an area of sink estates would be giving it glamour it doesn't deserve.
> It was a culture shock to say the least. I would be very surprised if the bike hadn't been modded.
> All the cliches about scousers are frequently wide of the mark, but not in Netherton. A scary place for the unwary.


Could be worse, could be Netherley...


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