# WiggleCRC to axe 300 jobs



## ianrauk (27 Oct 2016)

Think this was always going to happen with the takeover. The jobs that are to go are mainly in Northern Ireland. 

*BBC Link*


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## Rooster1 (27 Oct 2016)

Oh dear, bad news


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## ianrauk (27 Oct 2016)

A follow up piece just appeared on the BBC

Cynical asset stripping
*BBC Link*


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## Phaeton (27 Oct 2016)

Simple economics if you can't put your competitors out of business by undercutting their prices, buy them out & close them down.


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## smutchin (27 Oct 2016)

FFS.

I've submitted a FOI request to the CMA to ask why they approved the merger. Will report back in due course.


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## Phaeton (27 Oct 2016)

User said:


> There is one clear course of action open to all of us here.


Yep start buying the sale items that will come up on Chain Reaction site, it will be cheaper for Wiggle to sell them off rather than ship them over the water.


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## steve50 (27 Oct 2016)

User said:


> There is one clear course of action open to all of us here.


Boycott?


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## srw (27 Oct 2016)

ianrauk said:


> A follow up piece just appeared on the BBC
> 
> Cynical asset stripping
> *BBC Link*


...claims an MP who doesn't know what asset-stripping is (it's taking control of a company and then selling it in bits). He also rather undermines his claims by pointing out that CRC's most valuable asset was its list of customers, which wiggle still owns.


smutchin said:


> FFS.
> 
> I've submitted a FOI request to the CMA to ask why they approved the merger. Will report back in due course.


Save your ink. It's all on their website.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...96b000004/mapil-full-text-of-the-decision.pdf

Essentially, even when you look at UK only and online only there is enough competition.



User said:


> There is one clear course of action open to all of us here.


Of course. But if your main concern is saving jobs in a deprived part of the UK, then any decision not to buy from wiggle will contribute towards putting at risk jobs in Wolverhampton.


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## Sixmile (27 Oct 2016)

I live 1/4 mile away from the CRC warehouse in Doagh and whilst this will certainly ease some of the traffic issues of our village, it will be catastrophic for the local community financially. CRC are amongst the biggest employers in the county and I remember their earliest days in a tiny narrow bike shop in the main street of Ballyclare. They were a real local success story and an inspiration. It is terrible that it has come to this.


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## srw (27 Oct 2016)

Sixmile said:


> I live 1/4 mile away from the CRC warehouse in Doagh and whilst this will certainly ease some of the traffic issues of our village, it will be catastrophic for the local community financially. CRC are amongst the biggest employers in the county and I remember their earliest days in a tiny narrow bike shop in the main street of Ballyclare. They were a real local success story and an inspiration. It is terrible that it has come to this.


It hasn't "come to this". The owners of CRC made a conscious decision that they knew would, in all likelihood, result in the closure of the local warehouse.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (27 Oct 2016)

Sixmile said:


> I live 1/4 mile away from the CRC warehouse in Doagh and whilst this will certainly ease some of the traffic issues of our village, it will be catastrophic for the local community financially. CRC are amongst the biggest employers in the county and I remember their earliest days in a tiny narrow bike shop in the main street of Ballyclare. They were a real local success story and an inspiration. It is terrible that it has come to this.


All of the above. Can't fault the watsons for taking their £ and splitting though, good move for them at what must have been the right time.

Even as an ex employee Ill be sad to see CRC go, as I am to read very little else but news of job cuts lately.


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## srw (27 Oct 2016)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> All of the above. Can't fault the watsons for taking their £ and splitting though, good move for them at what must have been the right time.



Hold on a moment. That's a bizarre attitude. The closure of the warehouse is _directly_ because of the decision of the previous owners to take their £ millions. If they'd decided to keep ownership, or had sold to someone else, it wouldn't have happened.


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## Milkfloat (27 Oct 2016)

Sixmile said:


> They were a real local success story and an inspiration. It is terrible that it has come to this.



For the previous owners it is a huge success. 

Anyone who thought that CRC would remain intact is very naive.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (27 Oct 2016)

srw said:


> Hold on a moment. That's a bizarre attitude. The closure of the warehouse is _directly_ because of the decision of the previous owners to take their £ millions. If they'd decided to keep ownership, or had sold to someone else, it wouldn't have happened.


Not really. Why should they not sell their business?

Wiggle could keep operations here going but they aren't, that is the cause of job losses.


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## srw (27 Oct 2016)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Not really. Why should they not sell their business?
> 
> Wiggle could keep operations here going but they aren't, that is the cause of job losses.


I think you need to understand a bit more about how business, and life, works. You can bet your bottom dollar that the NI closure was part of the business plan discussed between wiggle and CRC during the takeover. Wiggle could not have bought without a willing seller.

I'm not saying that the original owners shouldn't have sold, just that no-one should be naive enough to believe that they didn't know exactly what would happen.


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## smutchin (27 Oct 2016)

srw said:


> Save your ink. It's all on their website.



Doh! Thanks for that. I did look for the info but couldn't find it. Makes absolutely no reference to the likelihood of job losses of course.


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## Milkfloat (27 Oct 2016)

I believe that Chris Watson from CRC sits on the Wiggle board and is a major shareholder - so not unexpected to CRC.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (27 Oct 2016)

srw said:


> I think you need to understand a bit more about how business, and life, works. You can bet your bottom dollar that the NI closure was part of the business plan discussed between wiggle and CRC during the takeover. Wiggle could not have bought without a willing seller.
> 
> I'm not saying that the original owners shouldn't have sold, just that no-one should be naive enough to believe that they didn't know exactly what would happen.





srw said:


> I think you need to understand a bit more about how business, and life, works. You can bet your bottom dollar that the NI closure was part of the business plan discussed between wiggle and CRC during the takeover. Wiggle could not have bought without a willing seller.
> 
> I'm not saying that the original owners shouldn't have sold, just that no-one should be naive enough to believe that they didn't know exactly what would happen.


I understand plenty thanks. A business was sold, the new owners of that business are asset stripping and returning operations to their HQ.

Job loss is the result


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## S-Express (27 Oct 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> I believe that Chris Watson from CRC sits on the Wiggle board and is a major shareholder - so not unexpected to CRC.



You mean not unexpected to the former shareholders of CRC who were rewarded handsomely when Wiggle bought their business? Don't forget Wiggle is owned by a private equity group whose principal aim is to build businesses like this and then sell them on again. This is part of the process, and Wiggle/CRC's NI employees are just victims of that, unfortunately.

This has very little to do with cycling, and everything to do with long term investment realisation.


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## Milkfloat (27 Oct 2016)

S-Express said:


> You mean not unexpected to the former shareholders of CRC who were rewarded handsomely when Wiggle bought their business? Don't forget Wiggle is owned by a private equity group whose principal aim is to build businesses like this and then sell them on again. This is part of the process, and Wiggle/CRC's NI employees are just victims of that, unfortunately.
> 
> This has very little to do with cycling, and everything to do with long term investment realisation.



Absolutely, unfortunately it is not cyclists that make the decision it is the money men. I don't blame the Watsons and Bridgepoint for their decisions. I would make the same ones. However, that is no comfort to the employees affected. I know how they feel, I worked for Nokia a few years ago.


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## srw (27 Oct 2016)

smutchin said:


> Doh! Thanks for that. I did look for the info but couldn't find it. Makes absolutely no reference to the likelihood of job losses of course.


It's not in their remit, of course!


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## mjr (27 Oct 2016)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Not really. Why should they not sell their business?


Hang on. The problem isn't that they sold their business, but that they sold it to someone who was always likely to close that bit down and shoot on the community that helped build it up.

Maybe it was the best offer they had. I don't know. Anyone here work for CRC and know if they even tried to sell it locally, perhaps to the workers or a trust?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (27 Oct 2016)

mjr said:


> Hang on. The problem isn't that they sold their business, but that they sold it to someone who was always likely to close that bit down and shoot on the community that helped build it up.
> 
> Maybe it was the best offer they had. I don't know. Anyone here work for CRC and know if they even tried to sell it locally, perhaps to the workers or a trust?


Im sure that if I was ever in the position to sell a business, the nature of the buyer would be down the list of important things, £ being at the top.

Chris Watson earlier this year

_"“This is an exciting new chapter for the Chain Reaction Cycles brand,” added Chain Reaction Cycles’ managing director Chris Watson. “Since the business started in 1984, we’ve grown strongly from our mountain bike origins in Northern Ireland to meet the needs of moreMTB, BMX and road cyclists across more countries. *Coming together with Wiggle is agreat way to continue that growth, as aglobal force in cycling and a leader intechnology, e-commerce and innovation*_.”


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## S-Express (27 Oct 2016)

mjr said:


> Maybe it was the best offer they had. I don't know. Anyone here work for CRC and know if they even tried to sell it locally, perhaps to the workers or a trust?



I suspect it had not occurred to them to sell until Bridgepoint/Wiggle approached them.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (27 Oct 2016)

Modern Titanic. Proudly built in Northern Ireland but sunk by the English


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (27 Oct 2016)

User said:


> It was an English iceberg?


Not sure what language it spoke


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## Johnno260 (27 Oct 2016)

I have seen the same thing 1st hand, the competition bought our company/brand moved the production to their main facility and closed my branch.
They offered our brand for a year but pushed their brand on the customers until they killed the brand I used to work for.
It's standard practise for business now.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (27 Oct 2016)

[QUOTE 4529562, member: 259"]My brother-in-law works for CRC and they have been very nervous ever since the 'merger', expecting something nasty to happen. I'll see him at the weekend and I'm crossing my fingers that he keeps his job, as they are not exactly plentiful in Co Antrim.[/QUOTE]
It's bleak with Bombardier Howdens and CAT all high tailing it.

Its making jobs more valuable and increasingly cutthroat to get and stay in obviously.


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## srw (27 Oct 2016)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Im sure that if I was ever in the position to sell a business, the nature of the buyer would be down the list of important things, £ being at the top.
> 
> Chris Watson earlier this year
> 
> _"“This is an exciting new chapter for the Chain Reaction Cycles brand,” added Chain Reaction Cycles’ managing director Chris Watson. “Since the business started in 1984, we’ve grown strongly from our mountain bike origins in Northern Ireland to meet the needs of moreMTB, BMX and road cyclists across more countries. *Coming together with Wiggle is agreat way to continue that growth, as aglobal force in cycling and a leader intechnology, e-commerce and innovation*_.”


And you think that's his words, rather than, say, something Wiggle's PR department knocked up in his name? Right. I've got a helmet you might like. Absolutely guaranteed to protect you from all injuries, and it'll make you faster, too.


S-Express said:


> I suspect it had not occurred to them to sell until Bridgepoint/Wiggle approached them.


Right. You might like my magic helmet, too.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (27 Oct 2016)

srw said:


> And you think that's his words, rather than, say, something Wiggle's PR department knocked up in his name? Right. I've got a helmet you might like. Absolutely guaranteed to protect you from all injuries, and it'll make you faster, too.
> 
> Right. You might like my magic helmet, too.


If you know any better (ie: that Chris Watson didn't say that) please do offer it up  That's obviously more important than what was said.


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## TheJDog (27 Oct 2016)

http://www.totalcycling.com/

Is still a locally (NI) owned bike shop, so I will probably try to shift more business their way. Until Wiggle buy them, right Michael?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (27 Oct 2016)

TheJDog said:


> http://www.totalcycling.com/
> 
> Is still a locally (NI) owned bike shop, so I will probably try to shift more business their way. Until Wiggle buy them, right Michael?


My head office is in the same estate, never knew Total Cycling was in there too


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## S-Express (27 Oct 2016)

srw said:


> Right. You might like my magic helmet, too.



Not sure what you mean. I doubt if CRC went cap in hand on their knees to Wiggle, if that's what you are implying. This has all the hallmarks of a long term strategy put in place by Bridgepoint and it wouldn't surprise me if we were to see Wiggle up for sale in a couple of years, so Bridgepoint can get some of their investors' money back (with a nice percentage on top, obviously).



srw said:


> And you think that's his words, rather than, say, something Wiggle's PR department knocked up in his name?



The quote would have been more than likely drafted by the PR dept, but he would have approved the wording. It wouldn't have his name on it otherwise.


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## smutchin (27 Oct 2016)

S-Express said:


> The quote would have been more than likely drafted by the PR dept, but he would have approved the wording. It wouldn't have his name on it otherwise.



An editor I once worked for was forever complaining about our media department putting out quotes in his name without letting him approve them first. My favourite was when they quoted him as saying "Simples" (like the meerkats). He absolutely hates people quoting catchphrases off sitcoms or adverts so was apoplectic, which we all found highly amusing in the office.


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## Flying Dodo (27 Oct 2016)

S-Express said:


> This has very little to do with cycling, and everything to do with long term investment realisation.



More like short term investment realisation. Although Bridgepoint have owned Wiggle since 2011, I'd expect the merged group to be sold off within a couple of years.


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## S-Express (27 Oct 2016)

Flying Dodo said:


> More like short term investment realisation. Although Bridgepoint have owned Wiggle since 2011, I'd expect the merged group to be sold off within a couple of years.



Fair comment, I suppose it depends on who is defining 'long' or 'short' - but as you say I'd also be expecting them to be looking to get their money back within a couple of years.


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## smutchin (27 Oct 2016)

smutchin said:


> I've submitted a FOI request to the CMA to ask why they approved the merger. Will report back in due course.



They came back to me pretty quickly, as it happens - with a link to the same report that @srw managed to find and I didn't.


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## Andrew_P (27 Oct 2016)

Fecking bollocks these investment firms are - Chasing the cash without a thought for the human cost. Plus they ultimately they ruin the choice and shopping experience and I duess if they are in the long haul pricing especially now its not worth price matching EU stores.

Evans since being taken over look like they are staggering around, stock is really poor and all they seem to be "investing" in is the FWE brand which is like Tesco Basics both in packaging and quality. They really do not understand the core market. At least try and come up with a brand that people want to buy/wear


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## mjr (27 Oct 2016)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Im sure that if I was ever in the position to sell a business, the nature of the buyer would be down the list of important things, £ being at the top.


Ah, how well the capitalists have indoctrinated you! With that attitude to your workers, I hope you never are in that position and I mean that with all fondness.



S-Express said:


> I suspect it had not occurred to them to sell until Bridgepoint/Wiggle approached them.


I suspect it had always been part of the plan. Most business owners seem to have one of two exit strategies now: 1. sell it; 2. appoint managers to sweat it for them and retire on the dividends. Selling it covers a multitude of sins, though, from a workers' trust, through a floatation, to letting venturers rip it apart.



Johnno260 said:


> I have seen the same thing 1st hand, the competition bought our company/brand moved the production to their main facility and closed my branch.
> They offered our brand for a year but pushed their brand on the customers until they killed the brand I used to work for.
> It's standard practise for business now.


It's been standard practice for decades. Back in 1982, the firm that employed a close relative was bought by a competitor, left alone for a year or two, then distribution moved to the competitor's nearest site, then rebranded to a sub-brand of the competitor that was no longer linked to its geographic location, then production gradually moved abroad and the home factory closed, leaving only the competitor's original distribution centre.

It just seems to happen faster now. They don't even wait for you to forget the BS that they "have not forgotten their roots and continue to invest in cycling locally" before they sell up and close down the NI bits.

Unite (the Union) are predictably outraged.

If anyone didn't expect this after Wiggle bought CRC, what are you drinking?


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## mjr (27 Oct 2016)

User said:


> Very kind, I'll have a pint of your best bitter thank you.


If you want to collect: 7pm bike ride, Thu 10 Nov, outside Marriott's Warehouse, South Quay, King's Lynn, finishes at a bar about 8pm.


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## oldroadman (27 Oct 2016)

Bit of research into Wiggle. It started as a bike shop in Portsmouth. Get into what was then called mail order then e-trading. Grew and grew. At one point Wigg;e had a big warehouse/distribution north of Portsmouth. Along the way the original business owners sold up to another company, who kept Wiggle for a while then sold it on again. Somewhere in all this the Portsmouth location was moved to the midlands. Plenty of Portsmouth jobs lost I guess.
Now Wiggle owners grab CRC, a major competitor, and as has been mentioned will eventually kill the brand.
No prizes for working out that in all this the price has been escalating. Rumour was that the first deal was £10-20 million, next somewhere close to £90 mil, and now who knows what the business will sell for next. All based on multipliers of turnover and profit.
All this top level wheeling and dealing is of no consequence to the workers, they just either carry on, move if they can, or lose a job. When people are trousering millions the problems of Fred Bloggs picking orders in the warehouse are of no concern. Managers do the dirty work and a few get rich. Unions bleat but have no influence whatever they think. Call a strike and big players will simply hire in casual labour.
Whether any of this is moral or right matters not. Money talks.
It was and is just the same as in professional sport, all about the drinking vouchers.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (27 Oct 2016)

mjr said:


> Ah, how well the capitalists have indoctrinated you! With that attitude to your workers, I hope you never are in that position and I mean that with all fondness.


I've had my fill of a55hol3 colleagues, working alone will do fine


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## Dave 123 (27 Oct 2016)

According to Bridgepoint, this is what they do-

http://www.bridgepoint.eu/en/what-we-do/

They're peoplecentric. I'll be looking to forego my haribo.


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## Shut Up Legs (27 Oct 2016)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Not sure what language it spoke


I suspected you English are a bit frosty at times. 

I'll be watching the result of the merger, because I've been a regular CRC customer for years, and have always found them reliable and good to deal with.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (27 Oct 2016)

Shut Up Legs said:


> I suspected you English are a bit frosty at times.
> 
> I'll be watching the result of the merger, because I've been a regular CRC customer for years, and have always found them reliable and good to deal with.


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## srw (27 Oct 2016)

Johnno260 said:


> I have seen the same thing 1st hand, the competition bought our company/brand moved the production to their main facility and closed my branch.
> They offered our brand for a year but pushed their brand on the customers until they killed the brand I used to work for.
> It's standard practise for business now.


It's been standard practice for _centuries. _Never mind the bullshit about customer centricity, this sort of thing is an inevitable consequence of joint stock limited liability companies, which were invented in the 18th century. Watson was only a 50% owner of CRC, which means that when he (they?) sought to grow CRC buy bringing in external funding, this sort of trade sale was one of two main exit strategies on his radar. The other would have been a disposal directly to a venture capitalist. Either way, CRC's Northern Ireland operations were doomed several years ago - unless, that is, Watson had written some sort of covenant around local jobs into the sale. The fact that he didn't tells me all I need to know.


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## Sixmile (28 Oct 2016)

srw said:


> It hasn't "come to this". The owners of CRC made a conscious decision that they knew would, in all likelihood, result in the closure of the local warehouse.


 
It has 'come to this' in the way I meant, that local people in their hundreds are losing their jobs. CRC management may have seen such a scenario down the line but the local staff were hopeful that it wouldn't be the case and unfortunately the announcement has come. Our local news has been flooded with this story with local politicians saying they were given 'almost cast iron guarantees' that the merger wouldn't lead to job losses at the time. Although we all know what cast iron guarantees in politics and business mean, never mind 'almost' ones.


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## mjr (28 Oct 2016)

Sixmile said:


> Our local news has been flooded with this story with local politicians saying they were given 'almost cast iron guarantees' that the merger wouldn't lead to job losses at the time.


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...move-warehouse-to-west-midlands-35164244.html has only the union rep mentioning assurances.

The economy minister doesn't mention them in http://www.itv.com/news/utv/update/2016-10-26/threat-to-ni-cycling-jobs-deeply-worrying-minister/

Other sites seem similar. Where's the flood? Seems like a gentle trickle of micturate.


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## snorri (28 Oct 2016)

User said:


> It was an English iceberg?


No, but it was an English captain in command of Titanic.


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## Sixmile (28 Oct 2016)

mjr said:


> http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...move-warehouse-to-west-midlands-35164244.html has only the union rep mentioning assurances.
> 
> The economy minister doesn't mention them in http://www.itv.com/news/utv/update/2016-10-26/threat-to-ni-cycling-jobs-deeply-worrying-minister/
> 
> Other sites seem similar. Where's the flood? Seems like a gentle trickle of micturate.


 
It was the lead story on all BBC newsline reports yesterday, major discussion point on the main radio shows and in the major newspaper as you pointed out. If that's a trickle, ok. 

Danny Kinahan, MP for south antrim was who I was quoted with regard to 'almost cast iron guarantees' when he was speaking on BBC news yesterday. He and other politicians visited CRC in Mallusk yesterday.


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## jonny jeez (28 Oct 2016)

srw said:


> It hasn't "come to this". The owners of CRC made a conscious decision that they knew would, in all likelihood, result in the closure of the local warehouse.


Agreed. It hasn't come to anything.

Some people started a business, built it up and flogged it.

There is nothing going on here that doesn't happen every day in business and has always done so.

How are wiggle the baddie on this, were they supposed to refuse to buy the business and allow it to go to a competitor.

Crc are the baddie...if there is one


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## srw (28 Oct 2016)

[QUOTE 4530906, member: 259"]Why was that?[/QUOTE]
For the reasons I outlined in the bits of my post you excised. The previous owner built up a business with a view to realising his investment. He chose to do that without sufficient guarantee that jobs in NI would persist after his involvement ended.


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## jonny jeez (28 Oct 2016)

srw said:


> Right. You might like my magic helmet, too.


Do you make them in carbon?


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## Cycleops (28 Oct 2016)

One company takes over another. Both are selling to the same market. Something has to give.

Dont understand why people are talking about 'brand'. They are just shopfronts.


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## Fab Foodie (28 Oct 2016)

User said:


> If you have done business with a selection of businesses and had good service from one, neutral from others, and poor from another, brand matters.


....except Russell....


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## frank9755 (28 Oct 2016)

They will keep the CTC brand, in the UK at least. The deal wasn't really about the UK though, and want really about closing operations, but about avoiding having to open new ones. 
Wiggle's main strategy is to roll out internationally to less mature markets where the competition is a bit less intense and where they can potentially get better margins as a result. CRC was already in some countries where wiggle wants to be and it is quicker to buy rather than build up the operations from scratch.
The northern Irish operations were essentially a bit of collateral damage / extra savings, from serving both websites from one back end.
The closure of the NI operations would have been part of the deal valuation though, and wiggle would have paid the previous owners a sum to reflect the value of those savings.


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## srw (28 Oct 2016)

frank9755 said:


> They will keep the CTC brand, in the UK at least. The deal wasn't really about the UK though, and want really about closing operations, but about avoiding having to open new ones.
> Wiggle's main strategy is to roll out internationally to less mature markets where the competition is a bit less intense and where they can potentially get better margins as a result. CRC was already in some countries where wiggle wants to be and it is quicker to buy rather than build up the operations from scratch.
> The northern Irish operations were essentially a bit of collateral damage / extra savings, from serving both websites from one back end.
> The closure of the NI operations would have been part of the deal valuation though, and wiggle would have paid the previous owners a sum to reflect the value of those savings.


What are you? Some kind of expert?! You're getting in the way of some people who just want a good rant at the Unfairness of The Man.


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## swansonj (28 Oct 2016)

srw said:


> What are you? Some kind of expert?! You're getting in the way of some people who just want a good rant at the Unfairness of The Man.


One can understand exactly how business works, and even acknowledge the necessity within a capitalist system, and still think it is unfair, can one not?


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## srw (28 Oct 2016)

swansonj said:


> One can understand exactly how business works, and even acknowledge the necessity within a capitalist system, and still think it is unfair, can one not?


One can. My observation would be that this thread is not over-burdened with observations as self-aware as that.


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## Blue Hills (28 Oct 2016)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> If you know any better (ie: that Chris Watson didn't say that) please do offer it up  That's obviously more important than what was said.


I think you need to do a bit more work on researching how PR works.

That public statement is classic PRese.

I know.

For a fair few years I worked in that environment.

Though it might somewhat surprise folk who know me offlne 

thankfully I never did owt too bad.

I could point to some examples of awful PR crap - but probably best not.


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## frank9755 (29 Oct 2016)

The other thing to consider, before getting too angry about things, is who does Bridgepoint, the private equity owners of Wiggle, represent?

The main investors in private equity are life insurance and pension funds. So, those of us with a pension, or life insurance, benefit directly from the savings made from closing down the CTC warehouse.

We are all part of the system, even if we might not like aspects of it at times.


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## Cycleops (29 Oct 2016)

Good point @frank9755 . I also think being made redundant or losing your job is not necessarily such a bad thing. It's happened to me many times in the past and it's nearly always meant I've been able to secure a better job. The old adage one door closes etc still holds true.


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## ufkacbln (29 Oct 2016)

Wiggle has been "BIg Business" for some years

It was bought out by Bridgepoint in 2011 and joins portfolio including Deliveroo, Pret a Manger, Hobby Craft and Leeds Airport.

Local matters are no longer a priority


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## e-rider (29 Oct 2016)

Cycleops said:


> Good point @frank9755 . I also think being made redundant or losing your job is not necessarily such a bad thing. It's happened to me many times in the past and it's nearly always meant I've been able to secure a better job. The old adage one door closes etc still holds true.


that might be your experience but it's not the same for everyone - many people struggle to find work again and can goes years unemployed (I am one of those people)


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## ufkacbln (29 Oct 2016)

[QUOTE 4529464, member: 45"]Find another small bike shop which has branched into online sales, and bonsai it before the money-grabbers start sniffing around.[/QUOTE]

I remember this house being "Butlers" a small local bike shop in Southsea







Started doing mail order and than a couple of the lads decided to use the new fangled internet for the orders

The rest, as they say .... is History


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## mjr (29 Oct 2016)

Cunobelin said:


> The rest, as they say .... is History


Just like their bike shops and all its jobs are now history too...


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (29 Oct 2016)

Cycleops said:


> Good point @frank9755 . I also think being made redundant or losing your job is not necessarily such a bad thing. It's happened to me many times in the past and it's nearly always meant I've been able to secure a better job. The old adage one door closes etc still holds true.


It is a bad thing. CRC isn't the only large employer closing it's doors, a lot of the bigger firms have packed up already or are in the process of doing so.

The vacancies are just not there when the redundancy cheque book gets opened. I can tell you for certain, I will not be in my job beyond 2020 and even that's a best case scenario. Nearly 9 years done, I'm sitting tight putting years on redundancy package and paying into a pension at this point.

To be honest, I'm somewhat looking forward to a break when the time comes....


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## e-rider (29 Oct 2016)

no longer shopping at Wiggle or CRC


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## MrGrumpy (30 Oct 2016)

Funnily enough not bought much from either shop for a while . Been buying from other online shops and err Halfords :-) Surprisingly taking into account 10% off they are not too bad price wise on some stuff .


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## Cycleops (30 Oct 2016)

e-rider said:


> no longer shopping at Wiggle or CRC





MrGrumpy said:


> Funnily enough not bought much from either shop for a while . Been buying from other online shops and err Halfords :-) Surprisingly taking into account 10% off they are not too bad price wise on some stuff .



So much for brand loyalty.


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## User482 (30 Oct 2016)

srw said:


> What are you? Some kind of expert?! You're getting in the way of some people who just want a good rant at the Unfairness of The Man.


Perhaps those you so glibly dismiss are not stupid, but are more ready to show empathy for the soon-to-be unemployed, than you appear to be.


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## srw (30 Oct 2016)

User482 said:


> Perhaps those you so glibly dismiss are not stupid, but are more ready to show empathy for the soon-to-be unemployed, than you appear to be.


TMN (with rather less condescension) to @swansonj


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## GrumpyGregry (30 Oct 2016)

frank9755 said:


> They will keep the CTC brand, in the UK at least. The deal wasn't really about the UK though, and want really about closing operations, but about avoiding having to open new ones.
> Wiggle's main strategy is to roll out internationally to less mature markets where the competition is a bit less intense and where they can potentially get better margins as a result. CRC was already in some countries where wiggle wants to be and it is quicker to buy rather than build up the operations from scratch.
> The northern Irish operations were essentially a bit of collateral damage / extra savings, from serving both websites from one back end.
> The closure of the NI operations would have been part of the deal valuation though, and wiggle would have paid the previous owners a sum to reflect the value of those savings.


It's a great shame that folks in NI will lose their jobs. A great shame but an utterly foreseeable consequence of Wiggle buying CRC. Wiggle buying CRC is just a part of how 'big business' works. That many relate to Wiggle and CRC with the same sort of emotional attachment as their local bike shop baffles me given the former are, for far and away the vast majority of their customers, faceless web brands with very limited human interaction, and only one main goal; profit.


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## srw (30 Oct 2016)

User said:


> And all a consequence of cycling becoming a more mainstream leisure activity.


It would be interesting to know what proportion of Wiggle's income is purely cycling related rather than running or triathlon driven.


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## srw (30 Oct 2016)

GrumpyGregry said:


> It's a great shame that folks in NI will lose their jobs.


It is. It's also a shame that it appears to be necessary to spell it out for fear of being called a heartless bastard - or worse.


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## User482 (30 Oct 2016)

srw said:


> TMN (with rather less condescension) to @swansonj


Not really: I find him rather less keen to defend the status quo, and rather less keen to patronize those concerned about job losses.


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## GrumpyGregry (30 Oct 2016)

srw said:


> It is. It's also a shame that it appears to be necessary to spell it out for fear of being called a heartless bastard - or worse.


I can't figure if it"is an NI thing, a cycle trade thing, or a cycle trade in NI thing, that makes it necessary, but necessary, in this thread, it certainly seems to be. 

Somehow, if they were bankers, or worked in financial services, I doubt the reaction to the job losses would be the same.


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## srw (30 Oct 2016)

GrumpyGregry said:


> I can't figure if it"is an NI thing, a cycle trade thing, or a cycle trade in NI thing, that makes it necessary, but necessary, in this thread, it certainly seems to be.
> 
> Somehow, if they were bankers, or worked in financial services, I doubt the reaction to the job losses would be the same.


Dave Spart is alive and well and living on cyclechat. People with comfortable lives seem to believe that you need to wear your heart on your sleeve at all times to have any compassion for anyone.

And, to be fair to Mr Spart, if they were bankers or (to some extent) worked in financial services they would be more likely to have a cushion against redundancy than a bunch of NI warehouse workers.


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## User482 (30 Oct 2016)

srw said:


> Dave Spart is alive and well and living on cyclechat. People with comfortable lives seem to believe that you need to wear your heart on your sleeve at all times to have any compassion for anyone.
> 
> And, to be fair to Mr Spart, if they were bankers or (to some extent) worked in financial services they would be more likely to have a cushion against redundancy than a bunch of NI warehouse workers.


Patrick Stevens has hacked your account.


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## 400bhp (30 Oct 2016)

frank9755 said:


> The main investors in private equity are life insurance and pension funds. So, those of us with a pension, or life insurance, benefit directly from the savings made from closing down the CTC warehouse.



We [individuals with pension savings] likely benefit indirectly rather than directly, albeit I agree with the sentiment of your post.

And it will be mostly defined benefit pension schemes that ate investing, of which is a rapidly declining part of the workforce.


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## GrumpyGregry (30 Oct 2016)

400bhp said:


> We [individuals with pension savings] likely benefit indirectly rather than directly, albeit I agree with the sentiment of your post.
> 
> And it will be mostly defined benefit pension schemes that ate investing, of which is a rapidly declining part of the workforce.


Where do you think DC schemes stash their cash?


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## 400bhp (30 Oct 2016)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Where do you think DC schemes stash their cash?



Quoted equities mainly.

Very little is invested in "diversified" asset classes in the UK.


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## GrumpyGregry (31 Oct 2016)

400bhp said:


> Quoted equities mainly.
> 
> Very little is invested in "diversified" asset classes in the UK.


My DC must be the exception. I'll have to ring Aviva and give 'em what for...


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## Flying Dodo (31 Oct 2016)

A number of local authority pension schemes, such as West Midlands and West Yorkshire have investments in Bridgepoint. So local authority workers will be indirectly benefiting from a share of the £9 billion that Bridgepoint have returned to investors over the last 10 years.


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## 400bhp (31 Oct 2016)

GrumpyGregry said:


> My DC must be the exception. I'll have to ring Aviva and give 'em what for...



Yes it is an exception.


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## Andrew_P (31 Oct 2016)

My boycott didn't last long!

I placed an order on Sunday - Tracked delivery the fastest option was £2.99 delivery on or before the 4th of November. No one else had the combo of my basket so had to go with them. Never seen such a long delivery time from Wiggle. Standard delivery was showing as next week. Everything was in stock and it has been picked and packed last night. Wonder what the deal is there they used to used DPD next day the last time I used them below sent last night at 10pm

The following order has been confirmed and sent out for you via the delivery method selected.

*Order number: 
Estimated delivery: *
Your items will be picked up from Wiggle within one working day and should be delivered to you within 4 working days.


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## GrumpyGregry (31 Oct 2016)

Andrew_P said:


> No one else had the combo of my basket so had to go with them. Never seen such a long delivery time from Wiggle.


Had to?


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## Andrew_P (31 Oct 2016)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Had to?


Well got a tear in my tubeless tyre and only other places were all EU sites that had the one I wanted. No bike shops stock them not even Evans warehouse keeps any road tubeless. The other stuff maybe could have punted around but hey as you point out it was easier getting all in one place, and they had 48% off my tyres so bought two...


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## GrumpyGregry (31 Oct 2016)

Andrew_P said:


> Well got a tear in my tubeless tyre and only other places were all EU sites that had the one I wanted. No bike shops stock them not even Evans warehouse keeps any road tubeless. The other stuff maybe could have punted around but hey as you point out it was easier getting all in one place, and they had 48% off my tyres so bought two...


You ride tubeless and you don't keep spares... hmmm...


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## Andrew_P (2 Nov 2016)

Too expensive to keep spare tyres kicking around



GrumpyGregry said:


> You ride tubeless and you don't keep spares... hmmm...




This LOL who do they think they are, expecting suppliers to swallow 15-20% increased costs
http://road.cc/content/news/210077-...g-suppliers’-currency-related-price-increases


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