# Why don't people have their drops at a useable height?



## Twilkes (30 Nov 2019)

I read and hear a lot about people who never or rarely use their drops, staying on the hoods. Surely one of the advantages of drop bars is the change in position? To me it feels much more solid when in the drops, my hands are 'hooked in' and I have access to gears and brakes, what's not to like?

Would a lot of cyclists benefit from raising their drops to get more use out of them, possibly combined with bending their elbows more? Lots of straight-armed riders out there (including me although I'm new to drops and working on it).


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## derrick (30 Nov 2019)

People ride what they are comfatable on. I ride mostly on the hoods. On the drops if I am pushing it. Or just fancy a change. On the drops is not the most aero position to be in. If your happy on your bike it makes no difference where you hold your bars.


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## Twilkes (30 Nov 2019)

I read the research about hoods with horizontal forearms being more aero than drops, but iirc they compared it to a straight-arm drops position which had a higher torso position so not really the same test. That was my thinking, get a horizontal forearm position in the drops, leaving a more relaxed position higher up on the hoods, although I'm not quite there yet.

edit: I'm probably pushing for speed more than some cyclists so that may be why, I understand comfort is the main thing for longer rides no matter what your target speed is, and not everyone cares about going as fast as they can.


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## Supersuperleeds (30 Nov 2019)

I very rarely use the drops.


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## Mike_P (30 Nov 2019)

How often do you see the pros using the drops, usually only when they are pushing it quite noticeably.


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## steveindenmark (30 Nov 2019)

I dont ride on the drops. I have never liked it. It just happens that the bikes I like come with drop bars and dont have a straight bar option


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## derrick (30 Nov 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> I dont ride on the drops. I have never liked it. It just happens that the bikes I like come with drop bars and dont have a straight bar option


You can put straight bars on any bike.


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## PaulSB (30 Nov 2019)

I ride on the drops if I'm pushing in to a headwind to get back on the group or a wheel.

I'll also use the drops when descending as I like to get as low as possible to lower my centre of gravity. I feel this gives me greater stability. When using rim brakes I want to be able to hold the whole lever, makes no difference with disc brakes.


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## Twilkes (30 Nov 2019)

Descending and cornering are improved with the lower centre of gravity on the drops. Another reason pros might have their drops lower than their standard hoods position is because they then have a lower position for sprinting/riding out of the saddle, which are two things I never really do, so that might be another reason to have my drops slightly higher and to use them more.

I read this a while ago and the article and comments give a lot of different viewpoints:

http://inrng.com/2013/01/cycling-position-change/


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## Paulus (30 Nov 2019)

I only ride on the drops occasionally. But there is at least 3 other positions to be had from a drop bar setup.


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## steveindenmark (30 Nov 2019)

derrick said:


> You can put straight bars on any bike.


Of course you can at extra faff and expense. On the other hand you just dont use the drops.


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## 12boy (30 Nov 2019)

I haven't ridden drops for years because they are too uncomfortable and the position makes it a strain to look ahead. While I find the palm down position of flat bars also uncomfortable for longer rides, there are many other bars that provide the "shaking hand" position I prefer. Bull horns, moustache bars, North Road bars do that and there are also swept back bars that split the difference between flat bars and the 3 mentioned earlier. Drop bars and the ones I've mentioned provide multiple hand positions which are great for longer rides. Most bikes seem to have head tubes set up so a fistful or so of stem will result in the drop position of drop bars being way below the saddle. To get those drops to a position I could use, say 1 or 2 inches below the saddle, would require a high stem, which in turn places the flat bar part pretty high. Another factor to consider is bar width, with wider bars being less aero and providing more control than narrow ones. I do think it's a good idea to try different types of bars than only drops and flat bars.


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## Drago (30 Nov 2019)

You've got 3 different positions without even going on the drops, so it's not as if people who don't do so are short changing themselves.


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## screenman (30 Nov 2019)

The word SOME seems to be missing from the title.


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## Aravis (30 Nov 2019)

With drop bars the positions I use the most are the tops and the shoulders. In the latter position my hands are relaxed, wrists are turned slightly outwards with fingers slightly spread and resting on the hoods. I'll go to the hoods when I want to cover the brakes and change gear, and the drops for full braking control, but I don't stay there for any length of time. At least I don't think I do; the fact that I don't know what proportion of my time I spend in each position, and am generally unaware of moving, suggests that however unorthodox this method may be, it's working well.

I know my top tube is a bit on the long side at 60cm, which is perhaps putting the shoulders in my sweet spot rather than the hoods. I feel sure a bike fitter would tell me this, not that they will get the chance. I also have my bars tilted further forwards than most I see, making the hoods a more crouched position than might normally be the case. But if I raised the hoods significantly it would bend my wrists backwards when riding on the shoulders, which wouldn't be so comfortable.

I've tried butterfly bars, which were a qualified success. But whilst the variety of positions was great, my hands and wrists couldn't forget where they're used to going and I was always having to think. Of course, in time they might become the most natural thing in the world.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Nov 2019)

Drago said:


> You've got 3 different positions without even going on the drops, so it's not as if people who don't do so are short changing themselves.



I used to sit on the bars and ride the bike backwards as well when I were a lad.


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## Ian H (30 Nov 2019)

Drops for better control through tight bends, and for aerodynamic advantage into a headwind or when a bit of speed is required. And for a change of position on a long ride. I have specific shallow randonnée-style drops on the touring bikes.


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## Fab Foodie (30 Nov 2019)

PaulSB said:


> I ride on the drops if I'm pushing in to a headwind to get back on the group or a wheel.
> 
> I'll also use the drops when descending as I like to get as low as possible to lower my centre of gravity. I feel this gives me greater stability. When using rim brakes I want to be able to hold the whole lever, makes no difference with disc brakes.


Wot e sed....


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## vickster (30 Nov 2019)

Why does it matter what other cyclists do or don't do?


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## slowmotion (30 Nov 2019)

Despite big hands, I can barely reach the shifters on the drops, certainly not enough to apply much braking pressure. I'm sure there are fixes but I've never felt the need to seek them out.


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## Twilkes (30 Nov 2019)

vickster said:


> Why does it matter what other cyclists do or don't do?



So I can understand their thought processes in case I can learn from them.


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## Heltor Chasca (30 Nov 2019)

Compact drops on my audax bike and flared drops on my tourer. Both comfy as you like in all positions. And at the right height.


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## vickster (30 Nov 2019)

Twilkes said:


> So I can understand their thought processes in case I can learn from them.


Just do what works for you?
If you're wanting to race, get a coach?
Personally I don't find it comfortable and it doesn't give me the same view of the road that I need as much of my cycling is in traffic or at least on busy roads. Hoods for me or tops with cross lever brakes in traffic


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## Saluki (30 Nov 2019)

I have flared drops on my Genesis and use them more than when on any of my other bikes. They are comfy.


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## Slick (30 Nov 2019)

Everyone is obviously different as my drops are at a useable height but I do choose carefully when I use them as I don't feel particularly in control on a very steep descent much preferring the hoods for more stability and feel. Powering on trying to get out the wind or picking up the pace, I get on the drops on my flared bars which are super comfortable. As an aside, even on the hoods, I now ensure my hands are side on facing each other as opposed to gripping from above which is probably what everyone does but I've only recently learned that position alleviates a lot of hand discomfort.


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## HLaB (30 Nov 2019)

Like a lot of people I prefer the hoods but the drops for me are more comfortable. I just prefer the visibility I get from sitting up on the hoods and I feel more in control of the brakes and gears.


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## woodbutcher (30 Nov 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> I used to sit on the bars and ride the bike backwards as well when I were a lad.


My god l had forgotten that , with me and my mates it would have been "cow horn" bars and fixed wheel. We also used to have slow races over fixed distance in that position ....happy days !


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## Mike_P (30 Nov 2019)

slowmotion said:


> Despite big hands, I can barely reach the shifters on the drops, certainly not enough to apply much braking pressure. I'm sure there are fixes but I've never felt the need to seek them out.


Shorter stem is a typical fix.


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## derrick (30 Nov 2019)

Mike_P said:


> Shorter stem is a typical fix.


It's the curve of the bars which makes the difference, The stem does not alter the space between bars and brake levers.


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## Ian H (30 Nov 2019)

derrick said:


> It's the curve of the bars which makes the difference, The stem does not alter the space between bars and brake levers.


And the position of the levers on the curve. Some levers are adjustable for reach as well.


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## Mike_P (30 Nov 2019)

derrick said:


> It's the curve of the bars which makes the difference, The stem does not alter the space between bars and brake levers.


But in terms of someones reach it brings the brake levers closer, I reduced mine from 110mm to 80mm and now can pull the brake levers easily when using the drops whereas before I always quickly swopped to the hoods in order to pull the brakes.


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## Twilkes (30 Nov 2019)

Slick said:


> my drops are at a useable height but I do choose carefully when I use them as I don't feel particularly in control on a very steep descent much preferring the hoods for more stability and feel.



Interesting as that is meant to be one of the strengths of drops. My rational self feels more in control on drops during a steep descent, but my irrational self feels like my face is about to go flying over the front wheel which can temper my speed somewhat! Think I lost my nerve in my early thirties...


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## dave r (30 Nov 2019)

I'm almost always on the tops these days, even though my drops are at a usable hight my back is too bad to be on them more than a minute or two now,


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## PaulSB (30 Nov 2019)

I've been thinking about the thread title "useable height."

I'd like to understand what this means? I use my drops, I guess many of us do. So if I use them that's "useable height." Surely?

How can drops be at a height that isn't useable? I don't think the question makes sense.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Nov 2019)

Most bikes are supplied with the steerer already cut short with not a huge range of adjustment in height. Many (most) riders don't bother swapping stems or bars and just go with what it came with. This may mean drops are not comfortable for long periods for various fit reasons.


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## Twilkes (30 Nov 2019)

PaulSB said:


> I've been thinking about the thread title "useable height."
> 
> I'd like to understand what this means? I use my drops, I guess many of us do. So if I use them that's "useable height." Surely?
> 
> How can drops be at a height that isn't useable? I don't think the question makes sense.



Some riders don't seem to be able to stay in the drops for a sustainable length of time, i.e. more than a few minutes, due to flexibility or core strength or whatever, which would make me think they're too low for that rider. The poster before you says their drops are at a useable height but also that he is unable to use them due to back problems. The default stem/steerer combo could be a reason why riders don't or can't raise their bars.


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## Slick (30 Nov 2019)

Twilkes said:


> Interesting as that is meant to be one of the strengths of drops. My rational self feels more in control on drops during a steep descent, but my irrational self feels like my face is about to go flying over the front wheel which can temper my speed somewhat! Think I lost my nerve in my early thirties...


I can't really explain why, it's just a "feel" thing for me.


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## PaulSB (30 Nov 2019)

Twilkes said:


> Some riders don't seem to be able to stay in the drops for a sustainable length of time, i.e. more than a few minutes, due to flexibility or core strength or whatever, which would make me think they're too low for that rider. The poster before you says their drops are at a useable height but also that he is unable to use them due to back problems. The default stem/steerer combo could be a reason why riders don't or can't raise their bars.


I'd suggest staying on the drops for a sustainable period is something one would train for. For example I have a friend who has taken TT very seriously this year. He can often be seen 50 metres off the back down on his TT bars - he is training his body to accept that position for long periods. Few of us chose to ride on the drops for long periods and I think it has more to do with the body being used to the position than useable height. Having the thought about this I can only imagine you feel if riders raised their bars they could spend more time on the drops. My question would be to what end and benefit? To be frank in terms of enjoyment I can't see any benefit in being on the drops - riding is about seeing what is around one which requires a more upright position. If it's simply about speed then that is a different approach altogether.


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## cyberknight (30 Nov 2019)

http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2013/10/changing-positions.html


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## CXRAndy (30 Nov 2019)

slowmotion said:


> Despite big hands, I can barely reach the shifters on the drops, certainly not enough to apply much braking pressure. I'm sure there are fixes but I've never felt the need to seek them out.



Di2 and hydraulic brakes will change all that. Gear shifts and heavy braking done with light finger tip control


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## SuperHans123 (30 Nov 2019)

I wonder why roadies don't get carbon fibre hybrids as most seem to spend almost all their time 'on the hoods' and a top of the line carbon hybrid which weighs next to nothing is way cheaper than an equivalent road bike. 
This one is £1400
https://www.evanscycles.com/specialized-sirrus-elite-carbon-2020-hybrid-bike-EV306272


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## SuperHans123 (30 Nov 2019)

dave r said:


> I'm almost always on the tops these days, even though my drops are at a usable hight my back is too bad to be on them more than a minute or two now,


May as well get a decent hybrid and some Ergo grips with bar ends...bye bye back pain and hello to accessible brakes and gears.


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## Mike_P (30 Nov 2019)

With the increasing amount of pot holes I put auxiliary brake levers on my road bike so giving a further option of hands on the handlebar with the brakes within easy reach, which has become my typical ride position on roads I do not know so I can keep a good look out from a more vertical position and on roads I know that are littered with pot holes.


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## DCBassman (30 Nov 2019)

Flat bars, even on a proper road frame. Works for me.
Hate drops, they just don't...work.
I might even fit North Roads!
Each to his own!


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## dave r (30 Nov 2019)

Twilkes said:


> Some riders don't seem to be able to stay in the drops for a sustainable length of time, i.e. more than a few minutes, due to flexibility or core strength or whatever, which would make me think they're too low for that rider. The poster before you says their drops are at a useable height but also that he is unable to use them due to back problems. The default stem/steerer combo could be a reason why riders don't or can't raise their bars.



In my case before my back got worse earlier this year I could use the drops OK, but the stem has been flipped and the bars are as high as they can go.


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## dave r (30 Nov 2019)

SuperHans123 said:


> May as well get a decent hybrid and some Ergo grips with bar ends...bye bye back pain and hello to accessible brakes and gears.



I've looked at hybrids, but I'm on a pension and couldn't fund one, I've also looked at a flat bar conversion, on my geared bike its too expensive, going over to bull horns on my fixed , like on my last fixed, could be an option.


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## slowmotion (30 Nov 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> Di2 and hydraulic brakes will change all that. Gear shifts and heavy braking done with light finger tip control


I'm trying to keep my bike technology-free. Stuff goes wrong and I won't be able to fix it easily when it does.
I have to change the bar tape on one bike. I'll try altering the position of the hoods. I'm not that bothered about not using the drops except when the headwind is cruel. All my rides are pretty mild and speed really isn't a driving force.


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## Gunk (30 Nov 2019)

Slick said:


> I can't really explain why, it's just a "feel" thing for me.



Me too, I’ve tried a Hybrid and it’s not a racing bike, just doesn’t feel special enough.


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## Twilkes (1 Dec 2019)

PaulSB said:


> I'd suggest staying on the drops for a sustainable period is something one would train for. For example I have a friend who has taken TT very seriously this year. He can often be seen 50 metres off the back down on his TT bars - he is training his body to accept that position for long periods. Few of us chose to ride on the drops for long periods and I think it has more to do with the body being used to the position than useable height. Having the thought about this I can only imagine you feel if riders raised their bars they could spend more time on the drops. My question would be to what end and benefit? To be frank in terms of enjoyment I can't see any benefit in being on the drops - riding is about seeing what is around one which requires a more upright position. If it's simply about speed then that is a different approach altogether.



Okay, if you're saying being in the drops is like being in a 'top gear' position, and not everyone wants to go at top gear pace all the time, and some people hardly at all, then I can get that. This is the first 'fast' bike I've owned so I want to push it and myself (and my legs!) as much as I can, hence thinking about rider position - if there is a benefit to going down to the drops in a strong headwind, there's a benefit in normal air resistance too. Being on the hoods makes me feel like I'm _on_ a bike, wheres wrapping my hands round the front of the drops makes me feel I'm _part of_ the bike, so even if they were the same height there would be a difference in experience for me.



PaulSB said:


> riding is about seeing what is around one



Riding is about different things for different people, I've done a lot of sit-up-touring, just now I'm looking to make progress (as speeding drivers call it).


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## Mike_P (1 Dec 2019)

dave r said:


> In my case before my back got worse earlier this year I could use the drops OK, but the stem has been flipped and the bars are as high as they can go.


 Stems with adjustable angles are available i.e. https://www.merlincycles.com/ritchey-adjustable-road-stem-137992.html


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## PaulSB (1 Dec 2019)

Twilkes said:


> Okay, if you're saying being in the drops is like being in a 'top gear' position, and not everyone wants to go at top gear pace all the time, and some people hardly at all, then I can get that. This is the first 'fast' bike I've owned so I want to push it and myself (and my legs!) as much as I can, hence thinking about rider position - if there is a benefit to going down to the drops in a strong headwind, there's a benefit in normal air resistance too. Being on the hoods makes me feel like I'm _on_ a bike, wheres wrapping my hands round the front of the drops makes me feel I'm _part of_ the bike, so even if they were the same height there would be a difference in experience for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Riding is about different things for different people, I've done a lot of sit-up-touring, just now I'm looking to make progress (as speeding drivers call it).



So really this thread is about going faster and not whether people have their drops in a useable position or not. 

That's fine, I have no problem with it but I'm still at a complete loss as to what is a useable position?

In all seriousness for road riding I don't think you'll see much difference whether on the drops or not. There are too many other variables.

When I'm out with the other pensioners, mainly 65+, we usually ride at 20/22mph, 16-17avg. We've time to chat, look around etc. I know younger riders who will be faster, 25/26mph,avg 19-20+, but none of them do long spells on the drops.


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## Smudge (1 Dec 2019)

The hoods on my road bike are level with my seat. I find this bike fairly comfortable to ride, but not as comfortable as my flat bar bikes. I never use the drops. Any bar position lower than seat level will cripple my back & neck.


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## Blue Hills (1 Dec 2019)

dave r said:


> I've looked at hybrids, but I'm on a pension and couldn't fund one, I've also looked at a flat bar conversion, on my geared bike its too expensive, going over to bull horns on my fixed , like on my last fixed, could be an option.


You should be able to pick up a good steel hybrid second hand for about £50 and then add/swap bits. A fair chance it would end up being more comfortable than anything bought new.


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Dec 2019)

woodbutcher said:


> My god l had forgotten that , with me and my mates it would have been "cow horn" bars and fixed wheel. We also used to have slow races over fixed distance in that position ....happy days !



Yeah I had cowhorns, but single speed rather than fixed. I raced a mate across a school playground , him running. I ran him over, oops.


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## Profpointy (1 Dec 2019)

For what it's worth, when I was commuting I reckon I was 50-60% on the drops, at least on the pedalling along rather than carefully filtering its. My bars are maybe an inch below saddle height.

I too wonder about the original question, and maybe people who don't use the drops suggests to me that their bars would be better higher, but who knows?


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## Blue Hills (1 Dec 2019)

Gunk said:


> Me too, I’ve tried a Hybrid and it’s not a racing bike, just doesn’t feel special enough.


There's hybrids and hybrids. What used to be called a fast city bike (maybe they still are) is essentially a type of hybrid.


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## Twilkes (1 Dec 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> There's hybrids and hybrids. What used to be called a fast city bike (maybe they still are) is essentially a type of hybrid.



Flat bar road bikes are a thing, not sure how widespread they are though.


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## Twilkes (1 Dec 2019)

PaulSB said:


> So really this thread is about going faster and not whether people have their drops in a useable position or not.



It's both - presumably people ride road bikes because they're quicker than a flat bar/hybrid for which you can get a similar spec for a fraction of the price. If riding a road bike on the drops is 'just right' for a lot of people then that's fine, just seems odd to not be more able to utilise one of the unique positions on a dropbar bike, otherwise you're essentially riding bull bars.



PaulSB said:


> That's fine, I have no problem with it but I'm still at a complete loss as to what is a useable position?



Again, if the drops are positioned such that a rider can't use them for more than a few minutes at a time then I wouldn't say they're in a useable position for that rider at that time.



PaulSB said:


> In all seriousness for road riding I don't think you'll see much difference whether on the drops or not. There are too many other variables.



But I do, I've run tests on the same road back and forth and on the drops I can travel a gear or two bigger than on the hoods, because my position is lower and longer, and I can keep a bent arm for longer on the drops. Other people must see a difference if they use drops into a headwind, which has come up a few times.

There's no problem with any of this, I just wanted to understand it a bit more to see if I was missing something.


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## PaulSB (1 Dec 2019)

This article may help you.

https://www.bicycling.com/skills-tips/a22107504/aerodynamic-definition-in-cycling/


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## gavroche (1 Dec 2019)

The reason I hardly use the drops is because it hurts my neck after a bit as I have to raise my head higher so I never stay long on them when I do.


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## Smokin Joe (1 Dec 2019)

Twilkes said:


> Flat bar road bikes are a thing, not sure how widespread they are though.


I can't stand flat bars, the lack of hand positions make my wrists and arms ache after a short while.


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## SuperHans123 (1 Dec 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> I can't stand flat bars, the lack of hand positions make my wrists and arms ache after a short while.


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## SuperHans123 (1 Dec 2019)

If most ppl on this thread rarely use the drops and by extension, then have to reach for the gears/brakes, why don't you get a hybrid instead which are usually cheaper and have easily reachable brakes/gears....I just don't get it. Is it an image thing?


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## Mike_P (1 Dec 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> I can't stand flat bars, the lack of hand positions make my wrists and arms ache after a short while.


Add a pair of bar ends, some double up as a tool kit.


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## Twilkes (1 Dec 2019)

SuperHans123 said:


> If most ppl on this thread rarely use the drops and by extension, then have to reach for the gears/brakes, why don't you get a hybrid instead which are usually cheaper and have easily reachable brakes/gears....I just don't get it. Is it an image thing?



To be fair, I don't have a problem braking or changing gear from the hoods, I wouldn't have thought many others did either.


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## Smudge (1 Dec 2019)

If i were to only have one bike, then without doubt it would be a hybrid. They are the most comfortable for me and the most practical. But i like to have different bikes for different riding uses and experiences, and as i have the space for 4 bikes, then why not.
The road bike is nice to use sometimes because its the lightest bike i own and has the simplicity of no mudguards, rack, lights, panniers or any of the other stuff thats on my other bikes.


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## Aravis (1 Dec 2019)

SuperHans123 said:


> If most ppl on this thread rarely use the drops and by extension, then have to reach for the gears/brakes, why don't you get a hybrid instead which are usually cheaper and have easily reachable brakes/gears....I just don't get it. Is it an image thing?


I don't think I've ridden a bike with a straight bar since I bought my first road bike in 1979, so my memory may be a little hazy. I think I remember finding that I always wanted to move my hands nearer to the centre than the position of levers would easily allow. A drop bar, with the entire width of the tops available, solves that immediately. Everything else flows from that; you have the variety of positions which everyone talks about. You don't need to be spending the same amount of time in each position for them to be effective.


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## Twilkes (1 Dec 2019)

Aravis said:


> I don't think I've ridden a bike with a straight bar since I bought my first road bike in 1979, so my memory may be a little hazy. I think I remember finding that I always wanted to move my hands nearer to the centre than the position of levers would easily allow. A drop bar, with the entire width of the tops available, solves that immediately. Everything else flows from that; you have the variety of positions which everyone talks about. You don't need to be spending the same amount of time in each position for them to be effective.



I have TOGS near my levers on my flat bar, not quite the position in the video but it gives a more central and wrist-friendly position to use on this kind of bike: https://www.mbr.co.uk/news/togs-are-bar-ends-for-your-thumbs-351600

Edit - not that I have wrist problems on a flat bar.


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## Smokin Joe (1 Dec 2019)

Mike_P said:


> Add a pair of bar ends, some double up as a tool kit.


Not for me. I prefer the multiple positions available on drops.


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## Kajjal (1 Dec 2019)

This really depends on personal preference and also the riders flexibility. I prefer a more upright position with less reach others prefer the complete opposite. Being comfortable in the drops allows for a more aerodynamic position and can be useful on long rides to give a variety of positions to move round the bike.


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## Dogtrousers (1 Dec 2019)

I dont use the low part of my drop bars much. Maybe I could just as well use flats. So what? My bike has drop bars. My previous bike had drop bars. I like drop bars. I'm not about to start fiddly experiments to see if I'd prefer, or if I'd make more efficient use of, something else when I don't have a problem with what I have.

Had some headwinds this morning so I did actually spend a bit of time down in the drops. I doubt it made any difference.


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## Milzy (1 Dec 2019)

I need them slammed to the floor. Sit up & beg position is more uncomfortable to me.


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## SkipdiverJohn (1 Dec 2019)

dave r said:


> I've looked at hybrids, but I'm on a pension and couldn't fund one, I've also looked at a flat bar conversion, on my geared bike its too expensive, going over to bull horns on my fixed , like on my last fixed, could be an option.





Blue Hills said:


> You should be able to pick up a good steel hybrid second hand for about £50 and then add/swap bits. A fair chance it would end up being more comfortable than anything bought new.



Everyone can afford a hybrid, even poor pensioners! Paid £20 for this tidy 1988 Raleigh with a 531 frame and very little wear & tear. OK, it ended up being just north of £50 by the time I'd replaced the Michelin World Tours with puncture-resistant Schwalbes, but still not a lot of money - and you need tyres no matter what sort of bike you ride. Doing a flat bar conversion would cost more in bits plus having two bikes is better than one.


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## MichaelW2 (1 Dec 2019)

The shape and radius of drops has an impact on comfort and usability. For most riders, shallower drops are better.


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## Rusty Nails (1 Dec 2019)

I like the bars on my bikes best.


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## Blue Hills (1 Dec 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Everyone can afford a hybrid, even poor pensioners! Paid £20 for this tidy 1988 Raleigh with a 531 frame and very little wear & tear. OK, it ended up being just north of £50 by the time I'd replaced the Michelin World Tours with puncture-resistant Schwalbes, but still not a lot of money - and you need tyres no matter what sort of bike you ride. Doing a flat bar conversion would cost more in bits plus having two bikes is better than one.
> View attachment 495003


Agree - three of mine i can think of cost £30, £30 and £21, though i did add bits and quality wheels.


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## screenman (1 Dec 2019)

How does the op know people's bars are too low?


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## GuyBoden (1 Dec 2019)

Most modern bikes have the handlebars far too low for most normal people to ride in the drops. IMHO.

I have an old 1970's Dawes Galaxy, when riding in the drops the handlebars are within easy reach, even for an old man like myself, because they were designed to be higher.


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## screenman (1 Dec 2019)

GuyBoden said:


> Most modern bikes have the handlebars far too low for most normal people to ride in the drops. IMHO.
> 
> I have an old 1970's Dawes Galaxy, when riding in the drops the handlebars are within easy reach, even for an old man like myself, because they were designed to be higher.



How do you know this? Let me guess I bet you dislike carbon fibre


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## GuyBoden (1 Dec 2019)

screenman said:


> How do you know this? Let me guess I bet you dislike carbon fibre



If I was young and still racing, I would get a carbon fibre bike. With all the latest gear I could afford.


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## SkipdiverJohn (1 Dec 2019)

GuyBoden said:


> Most modern bikes have the handlebars far too low for most normal people to ride in the drops. IMHO.
> 
> I have an old 1970's Dawes Galaxy, when riding in the drops the handlebars are within easy reach, even for an old man like myself, because they were designed to be higher.



It's one of those mindless cycling industry fashion statements that has backfired and simply resulted in the vast majority of cyclists buying flat bar bikes not ones with drops. Back in the 70's and 80's many pretty casual cyclists were riding drop bar "racers" with steel frames and quill stems that permitted a comfortable set-up even with drops. Now the industry has decided that it knows better than riders, and everyone must tolerate a backbreaking low-bar position with very minimal possible adjustment of threadless steerers, only the most dedicated cyclists are still buying drop bars. Most riders won't go near drops these days and only buy bikes with flats. I only ride drops again now because they are of the old-school variety, and I can get the tops almost level with the saddle. Even so, I only use the drops to try to mitigate the effect of headwinds. They serve no other purpose apart from being able to reduce my frontal profile a bit for a few minutes at a time. I still like the ability to use the tops, corners, or hoods though, and drop bars are better for propping a bike up against a wall without it moving by itself.


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## screenman (1 Dec 2019)

You would think the industry would listen to John and start making money, come to think of It out local bike shops have a variety of bikes in to suit everybody. This 63 year old would be extremely uncomfortable on that upright posted earlier, way to extreme for me.


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## SkipdiverJohn (1 Dec 2019)

screenman said:


> You would think the industry would listen to John and start making money



They're selling plenty of flat bar machines to the masses instead, and drop bars have been relegated to a hardcore minority. The mix of bikes being sold has changed away from drop bar sports bikes, despite what you may think if you witness a weekend club ride. Look at what most commuters, shoppers, pub-goers, and leisure riders are aboard - they aren't, in the main, on drops. The reason @GuyBoden was recently able to pick up his bargainous Galaxy, and me a super-cheap Raleigh Royal is that there was once a lot of this type of bike sold, and there are many survivors still around. Modern cyclists also seem frightened of DT friction shifters, having been spoiled by the indexed stuff you can operate from the bars.


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## Drago (1 Dec 2019)

People should be able to ride what the hell they like without having to justify it to other people. If someone buys a drop bar bike and rides it round with the drops pointed at the Pole Star that's their business.

It's legal, harmless, and no one else's business. I mean, with all the death, misery and suffering in the world and someone is spending their time sticking their nose into their peoples lawful affairs when there are so many meaningful things to be concerned over.


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## screenman (1 Dec 2019)

I sometimes wonder what you are doing John on something as modern as the internet, it is about time some on here considered that not all cyclist are the same or want the same thing.


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## screenman (1 Dec 2019)

Also why go old school when new school is better, friction v index, index every time, colour or black and white tv.


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## SkipdiverJohn (1 Dec 2019)

@screenman - There's nothing modern about the internet!!


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## Randomnerd (1 Dec 2019)

Thanks for tying up this thread @Drago. So what if I slam my drops on my training bike to pretend I'm Eddie Mercx and shop at leisure on my sit up and beg Gazelle? Keep your beak out and stop overthinking, please, OP.


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## SkipdiverJohn (1 Dec 2019)

screenman said:


> Also why go old school when new school is better, friction v index, index every time


I'll agree indexed is easier to use, and probably essential for stuff with 10 or 11 closely-spaced sprockets on the back. Most of my mileage is ridden on bikes with bar-mounted indexed shifters, but DT's are fine with 5/6 speed sprockets and can be very satisfying when you get a run of nice clean changes. A lot of old-school stuff will outlast new-school though, and our lugged steel will still be going when most of the carbon has gone to landfill.


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## Randomnerd (1 Dec 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> A lot of old-school stuff will outlast new-school though, and our lugged steel will still be going when most of the carbon has gone to landfill.


You don't know this; I ride steel, but you can't assume what you do is always better. Live and let live and ease off axe-grinding. It's only bike riding


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## woodbutcher (1 Dec 2019)

Drago said:


> People should be able to ride what the hell they like without having to justify it to other people. If someone buys a drop bar bike and rides it round with the drops pointed at the Pole Star that's their business.
> 
> It's legal, harmless, and no one else's business. I mean, with all the death, misery and suffering in the world and someone is spending their time sticking their nose into their peoples lawful affairs when there are so many meaningful things to be concerned over.


End of pointless argument for arguments sake ...succinctly put Drago !


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## keithmac (1 Dec 2019)

It's strange this thread has come up, I read earlier a cyclist died in York due to riding into the back of a parked car.

They put the accident partially down to his riding position on the drops making him naturally look down.

I was behind a lad riding home from work probably 10 years ago now, he had the same accident (looking down "going for it") and road straight into the back of a parked car. Luckily he didn't break his neck and was relatively OK. I left him when the Paramedics turned up.

I can't ride on drops, my back/ neck isn't flexible enough!.


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## Twilkes (1 Dec 2019)

woodenspoons said:


> Thanks for tying up this thread @Drago. So what if I slam my drops on my training bike to pretend I'm Eddie Mercx and shop at leisure on my sit up and beg Gazelle? Keep your beak out and stop overthinking, please, OP.



And yet lots of people have shared their views and some people have become more informed as a result. It's almost as if that's the definition of the word 'forum'.


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## PaulSB (1 Dec 2019)

SuperHans123 said:


> If most ppl on this thread rarely use the drops and by extension, then have to reach for the gears/brakes, why don't you get a hybrid instead which are usually cheaper and have easily reachable brakes/gears....I just don't get it. Is it an image thing?


Surely you are ignoring all the other benefits of riding a road bike as opposed to a hybrid.

I've enjoyed riding hybrids for commuting and touring. Equally I enjoy road bikes for commuting, touring and club riding. There is no way I would be able to sit with the groups I ride with if I turned up on a hybrid. A hybrid doesn't have the speed, balance and responsiveness one gets from a road bike.


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## SkipdiverJohn (1 Dec 2019)

keithmac said:


> I read earlier a cyclist died in York due to riding into the back of a parked car.They put the accident partially down to his riding position on the drops making him naturally look down.



Never ride on the drops myself in traffic due to reduced visibility. Way too dangerous. I like to know exactly what's going on all around me when on two wheels. Drops are narrow enough to go through smaller gaps though, but that can be pushing your luck as well.



PaulSB said:


> Surely you are ignoring all the other benefits of riding a road bike as opposed to a hybrid.
> I've enjoyed riding hybrids for commuting and touring. Equally I enjoy road bikes for commuting, touring and club riding. There is no way I would be able to sit with the groups I ride with if I turned up on a hybrid. A hybrid doesn't have the speed, balance and responsiveness one gets from a road bike.



There's road bikes and road bikes though, isn't there? Some of them feel docile, generally Tourers, others have quicker steering and feel "fast". I'm not really that much quicker on my Touring frame than on a hybrid. Less than 1 mph that's for sure. My more "sporty" one, also old steel of course, can be slightly quicker than the Tourer - but only if I'm in the mood to push it harder. otherwise it's not much different in speed, just road feel. If you are a rider like me with a laid-back attitude to cycling who really can't be arsed with trying to keep pace with fast riders, then a road bike is not going to be significantly faster. I have to be in the right mood to get the benefit of a more responsive frame, otherwide it's just wasted as I'm just going to pootle anyway.


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## SuperHans123 (1 Dec 2019)

PaulSB said:


> Surely you are ignoring all the other benefits of riding a road bike as opposed to a hybrid.
> 
> I've enjoyed riding hybrids for commuting and touring. Equally I enjoy road bikes for commuting, touring and club riding. There is no way I would be able to sit with the groups I ride with if I turned up on a hybrid. A hybrid doesn't have the speed, balance and responsiveness one gets from a road bike.


These are benefits to you not me.
I live 1.35 miles from my office, .75 of which I roll down, so all good on a hybrid for that.
Touring and club riding? Nope on both counts. I ride on my own pretty much all the time and love it and I don't really get over about 30 odd miles.
Speed? Don't care.
Balance? I tried sitting on my m8's road bike in the work car park a few times, almost went arse over tit. My sit up and beg Cannondale is way more stable for me.
Responsiveness? I pedal, it goes, I look after the bike as best as I can.

Perhaps you are ignoring all the benefits of riding a hybrid like the comfy ride, good value for the spec you pay for, easy instant access to brakes/gears, much more stable on the bike path/road due to wider tyres etc?


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## Randomnerd (1 Dec 2019)

Twilkes said:


> And yet lots of people have shared their views and some people have become more informed as a result. It's almost as if that's the definition of the word 'forum'.


Oh for a “yawn” button. This thread isn’t advancing anything we don’t already know. It’s just gum-flapping.


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## screenman (2 Dec 2019)

keithmac said:


> It's strange this thread has come up, I read earlier a cyclist died in York due to riding into the back of a parked car.
> 
> They put the accident partially down to his riding position on the drops making him naturally look down.
> 
> ...



They might have put it down to that, but it was down to him not looking.


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## Dogtrousers (2 Dec 2019)

Drago said:


> People should be able to ride what the hell they like without having to justify it to other people. If someone buys a drop bar bike and rides it round with the drops pointed at the Pole Star that's their business.


You win the thread.


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## Racing roadkill (2 Dec 2019)

A ‘handshake grip’ on the hoods, and flat back can be at least as efficient as fully in the drops. Pretty much the only time’s I’ll ride in the drops, is in a big effort sprint, where I don’t want the front wheel to skip about, or when I need somewhere different to position my hands. Some well known pro’s, used to use cut off drop bars.


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## Dogtrousers (2 Dec 2019)

I have a shocking admission to make. On my rack there are fitments for attaching panniers, but *I never use them* as I ride with a rack pack. 

I guess I should buy some panniers to make sure I'm using everything.


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## Heltor Chasca (2 Dec 2019)

I also have a shocking revelation for the OP. I have bar ends on the rear rack of my cargo bike. Two sets actually.

I may or may not reveal the method in my madness.


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Dec 2019)

screenman said:


> I sometimes wonder what you are doing John on something as modern as the internet, it is about time some on here considered that not all cyclist are the same or want the same thing.



@SkipdiverJohn Is using the version of the Internet from 1974. When looking around in his cellar he came across an old long since forgotten terminal, and £4.37 later had restored it into a usable state.


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Dec 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I also have a shocking revelation for the OP. I have bar ends on the rear rack of my cargo bike. Two sets actually.
> 
> I may or may not reveal the method in my madness.



For when the bike needs to be lifted up?


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## BalkanExpress (2 Dec 2019)

The previous owner of the bike I just bought obviously had strong views on the subject


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## Heltor Chasca (2 Dec 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> For when the bike needs to be lifted up?



Nope. Front ones provide feet rests for small passengers. Rear ones have red blinkies on them. 👍


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## Smokin Joe (2 Dec 2019)

SuperHans123 said:


> Perhaps you are ignoring all the benefits of riding a hybrid like the comfy ride, good value for the spec you pay for, easy instant access to brakes/gears, much more stable on the bike path/road due to wider tyres etc?


No different to road bikes, then. I don't know where you get the idea that wider tyres are "More stable" than narrow ones.


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## rivers (2 Dec 2019)

SuperHans123 said:


> Perhaps you are ignoring all the benefits of riding a hybrid like the comfy ride, good value for the spec you pay for, easy instant access to brakes/gears, much more stable on the bike path/road due to wider tyres etc?


Who says road bikes aren't comfortable? I wouldn't have been able to complete several centuries, centuries+, and a double century+ on a road bike that wasn't a comfortable ride. I wouldn't have travelled loaded to Bude and back on a bike that was comfortable. I can easily/instantly access my brakes and gears, unless I've fitted and am riding on my aero bars (which would have the same problem on a hybrid/mtb). I have no issues with stability on my 25mm tyres, and i actually prefer them to the 32mm tyres fitted on my winter bike (which is still a drop bar cx bike, but has discs). 

In response to the OP, I go on my drops when I need to, IE in a strong headwind or a nice, sweeping descent. For most of my riding, the hoods are sufficient. If I really want to chill out, I sit on my tops. If i want to get aero, aero bars all the way. I like having the option of multiple hand positions.


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## Mike_P (2 Dec 2019)

Could bike size be an issue for many without realising it - for some reasons that I cannot figure out a lot of suppliers insist I need a road bike that is larger than the one I have. The makers size chart it clearly indicates either a M or L size, have the latter and in hindsight a M might have been better, albeit the L was reduced by close to 50%, as the seat post is only raised a couple of inches at most and it is impossible to fit a bike stand clamp to the bike without raising the seat above its required height. I dread to think how I would have got on with the XL that many suppliers promote as being suitable on their size charts.


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## SuperHans123 (2 Dec 2019)

rivers said:


> Who says road bikes aren't comfortable?


Don't know, not me.


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## SuperHans123 (2 Dec 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> No different to road bikes, then. I don't know where you get the idea that wider tyres are "More stable" than narrow ones.


I know what I would rather ride on a wet day, down a hill with a bend in the road and it isn't a road bike with skinny slick tyres.


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## mickle (2 Dec 2019)




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## Ming the Merciless (2 Dec 2019)

rivers said:


> Who says road bikes aren't comfortable?



That people seem to have to wear padded shorts, padded gloves and to avoid pins and needles they need to keep moving their hands around on the bars. All the discussions on saddles. Number of riders who get nerve damage in their hands or neck or back issues. The fact that there is a whole industry around bike fit for road bikes. All these things point to a road bike not being comfortable out of the box.


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## Smokin Joe (2 Dec 2019)

SuperHans123 said:


> I know what I would rather ride on a wet day, down a hill with a bend in the road and it isn't a road bike with skinny slick tyres.


That's grip, not stability.


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## DCBassman (2 Dec 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> That people seem to have to wear padded shorts, padded gloves and to avoid pins and needles they need to keep moving their hands around on the bars. All the discussions on saddles. Number of riders who get nerve damage in their hands or neck or back issues. The fact that there is a whole industry around bike fit for road bikes. All these things point to a road bike not being comfortable out of the box.


It has to be said, if you're bolt upright using a set of North Road style bars, you don't have the slightest need to change hand positions very much, as you'll not be leaning on them very much. That's possibly the next evolution for all my bikes, including the roadie! 
Seriously, not trying to be contrary here. The more upright and comfortable I get, the more I like to ride. For me (let's face it, maybe ONLY me...), it's a no-brainer.
As @Drago says though, each to his own.


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Dec 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> No different to road bikes, then. I don't know where you get the idea that wider tyres are "More stable" than narrow ones.



I think he means that wider tyres at lower pressure aren't deflected so much, So if you are doing a fast descent on wider tyres and hit a hole in the road you are less likely to be deflected from your line or thrown from the bike, on wider tyres. Certainly on my mtn bike I never needed to ride round rough sections of the road but on road bike with narrower tyres you need to ride round such sections, lest you get thrown.


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## Smokin Joe (2 Dec 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> That people seem to have to wear padded shorts, padded gloves and to avoid pins and needles they need to keep moving their hands around on the bars. All the discussions on saddles. Number of riders who get nerve damage in their hands or neck or back issues. The fact that there is a whole industry around bike fit for road bikes. All these things point to a road bike not being comfortable out of the box.


I've had scores of road bikes over the years, mainly those I've put together myself but a few shop bikes too. Ten minutes tinkering with the correct position and they've been as comfy as a comfy thing in Comfyland.


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## screenman (2 Dec 2019)

Upright is not kind on my back.


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## DCBassman (2 Dec 2019)

screenman said:


> Upright is not kind on my back.


I hear you, but I'm the opposite, despite a spine made largely of cheese, particularly the Brie discs...


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## Profpointy (2 Dec 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> No different to road bikes, then. I don't know where you get the idea that wider tyres are "More stable" than narrow ones.



Wider tyres are "more stable" on poor surfaces. My off-road Thorn tourer on 26" x 1-1/2 or whatever is much nicer on a farm track than my 25mm 700c tyred more road oriented bike. Apart from weight I'm not sure the Thorn concedes much on the road either. Both have drop bars since having flat bars would obviously be silly :-)


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## woodbutcher (2 Dec 2019)

No idea who these guys are but they seem to have made their minds up


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## Rusty Nails (2 Dec 2019)

I returned to cycling about ten years ago after a gap of around 40 years. Because I have neck problems I started off on flat bars and had no problems with them, or discomfort, even doing a century on an mtb. I did try the occasional drop bar bike but couldn't get comfortable, then around five years ago I built up my own road bike from a new Genesis Equilibrium frame and fork, leaving the steerer uncut so I could experiment with the height, and stem length/rise. It was a revelation straight away and I now ride that bike 80% of the time, feeling no discomfort even though I had a C3/C4 fusion op 18 months ago. Although I must admit that I do not ride in the drops very often

I still find flat bars comfortable, although I prefer my bars cut shorter than they come as stock.

There is absolutely no need for an either/or choice other than specialised riding such as road racing or mountain biking.


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## Twilkes (2 Dec 2019)

.


woodbutcher said:


> No idea who these guys are but they seem to have made their minds up
> View attachment 495216



That's actually a good illustration of some of the points raised in the thread, riders in the past didn't have as great a drop from seat to bars, lots of photos on this link: http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2013/10/changing-positions.html?m=1 But modern brake shifters mean riders can spend all day on the hoods without sacrificing control, whereas older brakes and down tube shifters weren't as accessible from the hoods of those bikes.

Anyway, I got some good answers to my questions and am playing around with positioning, so I'm out.


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## mjr (3 Dec 2019)

DCBassman said:


> It has to be said, if you're bolt upright using a set of North Road style bars, you don't have the slightest need to change hand positions very much, as you'll not be leaning on them very much.


One shouldn't be leaning on them much on a road bike either. Just enough weight to steer. Nothing more, else you'll mess up your wrists, shoulders and/or elbows.

It does need more core/torso strength/stamina/fitness to hold a "drops" position without leaning on the bars, though, which gets more difficult as you tire. More aggressive dropped positions are more difficult for most people. IMO road bikes are easier to ride fast, roadster/town bikes are easier to ride more.


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## Drago (3 Dec 2019)

I've yet to see any empirical evidence that wider tyres are in any way inherently less unstable on poor surfaces.


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## mjr (3 Dec 2019)

Drago said:


> I've yet to see any empirical evidence that wider tyres are in any way inherently less unstable on poor surfaces.


If you want empirical evidence, go fit pram wheels on your smart car and report back on its stability.


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## GuyBoden (3 Dec 2019)

woodbutcher said:


> No idea who these guys are but they seem to have made their minds up
> View attachment 495216


These riders have made up their minds to use the drops, because they find being on the drops is faster in a sprint.


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## woodbutcher (3 Dec 2019)

GuyBoden said:


> These riders have made up their minds to use the drops, because they find being on the drops is faster in a sprint.
> View attachment 495274


"Horses for courses" and all that


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## PaulSB (3 Dec 2019)

Until this thread opened I'd never thought about this subject. On my ride today I experimented. If I'm on the hoods, shoulders or holding the bars I can move smoothly, simply by dropping my hands, on to the drops. In fact any hand position change is simple to make. My body doesn't move. I can then move my body in to a position which is suitable for what I want to do.

I assume most of us have our bars set at a suitable height to give us a good bike fit. I'd also assume there can't be much difference in the measurement from the bar to the drops on the majority of bars.

Given the above I simply do not understand the thread title and feel it asks a question which doesn't really exist. This of course presumes the bike is correctly set up. The relevant question is surely why do many riders chose not to use the drops?

Also thought about the hybrid question raised in the thread. My hybrid gives me a much more erect position than my road bike. I don't think I could achieve the 20+ mph we often ride at on a hybrid. If I could I feel my road bike handles completely differently and is suited to this type of riding.

I enjoy hybrids and road bikes but I cannot see how a hybrid can come close to replacing a road bike just because the rider choses to sit up and use the hoods.


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## Smokin Joe (3 Dec 2019)

mjr said:


> If you want empirical evidence, go fit pram wheels on your smart car and report back on its stability.


It will be perfectly stable, it won't overturn any more easily than with the regular wheels.


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## PaulSB (3 Dec 2019)

mjr said:


> Less aero, less ergo, less braking lever force, to name but three reasons.


Aren't those the opposites? These are all benefits of being on the drops. The question is why do people chose not to take advantage of these benefits.


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## boydj (3 Dec 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> That people seem to have to wear padded shorts, padded gloves and to avoid pins and needles they need to keep moving their hands around on the bars. All the discussions on saddles. Number of riders who get nerve damage in their hands or neck or back issues. The fact that there is a whole industry around bike fit for road bikes. All these things point to a road bike not being comfortable out of the box.



Doesn't matter what kind of bike you get, you're bound to have some setup to do to get a basic fit out of the box. If you are going to be doing regular rides of any great distance, then wearing bike-specific clothes is bound to improve your comfort. and having saddle and bars at an appropriate height will help your efficiency.

I was in my mid-fifties when I started riding regularly - using a road bike for commuting - but it didn't take me long to have my bar tops about 4" below the saddle and I ride mostly on the brake hoods, but I do get down on the drops when going faster than normal.


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## Rusty Nails (3 Dec 2019)

boydj said:


> ............................... I ride mostly on the brake hoods, but I do get down on the drops when going faster than normal.



I never go faster than normal. I'm always slow.


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## cyberknight (3 Dec 2019)

Twilkes said:


> .
> 
> 
> That's actually a good illustration of some of the points raised in the thread, riders in the past didn't have as great a drop from seat to bars, lots of photos on this link: http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2013/10/changing-positions.html?m=1 But modern brake shifters mean riders can spend all day on the hoods without sacrificing control, whereas older brakes and down tube shifters weren't as accessible from the hoods of those bikes.
> ...


TMN to me


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## PaulSB (3 Dec 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> That people seem to have to wear padded shorts, padded gloves and to avoid pins and needles they need to keep moving their hands around on the bars. All the discussions on saddles. Number of riders who get nerve damage in their hands or neck or back issues. The fact that there is a whole industry around bike fit for road bikes. All these things point to a road bike not being comfortable out of the box.



Some or all of this may be true for a selection of riders. The point though is no one human being is the same as another and therefore each individual will need a slightly different set up.

I've experienced some of the issues you describe and have been able to address them with some small adjustments.

I ride regularly with around 60 people, through my club I know 200+, and to be honest I rarely hear any discussion of the type you describe or other issues I read about on here. This is not to say they don't exist but their existence doesn't indicate road bikes are inherently uncomfortable.

The conversation I do hear is on the lines of "I changed xyz and what a difference its made."

I sit on mine 2-3 a week for 70+ miles. I can sit on it for 130+ miles. If it was uncomfortable this would be difficult to say the least.


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Dec 2019)

boydj said:


> Doesn't matter what kind of bike you get, you're bound to have some setup to do to get a basic fit out of the box. If you are going to be doing regular rides of any great distance, then wearing bike-specific clothes is bound to improve your comfort. and having saddle and bars at an appropriate height will help your efficiency.
> 
> I was in my mid-fifties when I started riding regularly - using a road bike for commuting - but it didn't take me long to have my bar tops about 4" below the saddle and I ride mostly on the brake hoods, but I do get down on the drops when going faster than normal.



Or you can ride a recumbent and be done with all this crap about bike specific clothes and fit this, fit that.


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## PaulSB (3 Dec 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Or you can ride a recumbent and be done with all this crap about bike specific clothes and fit this, fit that.


Surely it's only crap in the individual's mind? Whatever one rides one needs suitable clothing, it's just a question of what that clothing is. I'd also imagine a recumbent has to be set up for the individual?

I've had a couple of fun goes in a recumbent. If I was in one for several hours I'd want to wear something other than street clothes.


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## mjr (3 Dec 2019)

PaulSB said:


> Aren't those the opposites? These are all benefits of being on the drops. The question is why do people chose not to take advantage of these benefits.


I misread. Sorry. Deleted


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## mjr (3 Dec 2019)

boydj said:


> If you are going to be doing regular rides of any great distance, then wearing bike-specific clothes is bound to improve your comfort.


If you mean padded shorts, that's not bound at all.


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## raleighnut (3 Dec 2019)

Only got 'drops' on a couple of bikes nowadays, find 'Bullhorns' a lot more comfy,


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## Andy in Germany (4 Dec 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Nope. Front ones provide feet rests for small passengers. Rear ones have red blinkies on them. 👍



My Xtracycle has a set on the luggage rack for similar purposes, salvaged from a truly awful Supermarket Special a friend was chucking out.

I still haven't figured out how I want to positionmy drop handlebars. I just figured I was doing it wrong and left it at that.


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## Shearwater Missile (4 Dec 2019)

I spend most of my time in the drops. On my Claude Butler the tops are just below saddle height and I have compact bars. I just like the feel of the drops. My summer bike, Vitus Venon has exactly the same bars but have a bit more drop due to head tube height. Since I first had a drop handle bar bike at the age of 13 I have always used the drops, I guess it is what I have been used to. I do have neck issues but have gotten the handlebar height right as I don`t usually suffer when riding. You just have to ride what is comfortable for you. If you are not comfortable you will not ride well as many would testify. I think that even the pro`s would be uncomfortable if they rode constantly in the drops, but then their saddle to bar drop is a lot greater than the average cyclist. Comfort should always win.


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## boydj (4 Dec 2019)

mjr said:


> If you mean padded shorts, that's not bound at all.



Padded shorts are good - I wear them most of the time. However, they're not essential. On longer runs you'll need clothes that don't chafe, will wick the sweat, and are appropriate for the weather you're riding in. Lots of sports / outdoor clothing fits this bill, but cycle-specific fits it best if you do a lot of cycling.


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