# Pre-Lance



## Noodley (20 Feb 2009)

Okay, I started this on another thread with a tongue-in-cheek reply to kennykool about pro cycling pre-Lance but it sounds like a good idea for a thread on it's own. So what would you add to the advice so far? NO restrictions to Le Tour, but as kennykool obviously needs some education I suppose it seems natural to start with it.

1) Le Tour did not start when Lance won.
2) The greatest ever finish in Le Tour was when it was won by another American, Greg LeMond in 1989, winning it by 8 seconds from Frenchman Laurent Fignon, on the last day, a time trial ending on the Champs Elysee. I watched it - it was magnificent - it still is magnificent.


Can I add 3?

3) Robert Millar.


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## Dave5N (20 Feb 2009)

Drama? ( I don't want to be tasteless)

Simpson on Ventoux


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## Dave5N (20 Feb 2009)

Lance dropping Ullrich on Luz Ardiden


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## Dave5N (20 Feb 2009)

Abdoujapourov (sp?) on Champs Elysee


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## Dave5N (20 Feb 2009)

Boardman's Prologues


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## Dave5N (20 Feb 2009)

Cav last year


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## Dave5N (20 Feb 2009)

Cav winning the green jersey


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## Dave5N (20 Feb 2009)

OOps!. The misuus has warned me about that.


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## Noodley (20 Feb 2009)

Dave5N said:


> Lance dropping Ullrich on Luz Ardiden



Would that be pre-Lance? 

Although the others are good - if only you had numbered them 

get thee editing....


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## Dave5N (20 Feb 2009)

Education? Why Millar lost the Vuelta in '85


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## Dave5N (20 Feb 2009)

Graeme Obree and the meaning of heroism


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## Dave5N (20 Feb 2009)

Hoy and the meaning of dedication


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## kennykool (20 Feb 2009)

I have read a few books on the history of the tour which lead me into liking Marco Pantani.....then I read "the Death of Marco Pantani"

Still like him!!!

Lemond time trial I have also seen now.....very exciting!

Obree.....awsome!


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## wafflycat (20 Feb 2009)

Beryl Burton. She could beat the men too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryl_Burton

A true champion


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## Chuffy (20 Feb 2009)

Eugene Christophe carrying a broken bike down a mountain and fixing his broken fork at a forge.

Now _that_ man deserves to be called a hero.


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## wafflycat (20 Feb 2009)

Dave5N said:


> Hoy and the meaning of dedication



True. But not pre-Lance..


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## Smokin Joe (20 Feb 2009)

Anquetil v Poulidor in '64.

Roche winning in '87.

Merckx decimating the race in '69.

Lemond v Hinault, '86


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## Dave5N (20 Feb 2009)

Merckx


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## wafflycat (20 Feb 2009)

Bernard Hinault

TdF 5 times overall winner
Giro d'Italia 3 times overall winner
Vuelta 2 time overall winner

Then there's the rest...

Grand Prix des Nations 5 x winner 
Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré 3 x winner
Liège-Bastogne-Liège 2 x winner
Giro di Lombardia 2 x winner
La Flèche Wallonne 2 x winner
Ghent-Wevelgem 
Amstel Gold Race 
Tour de Romandie 
Quatre Jours de Dunkerque 
World Road Cycling Championship 
Paris-Roubaix 

Started professional career in 1974 (?) and ended in 1986.. Now that's a palmares.. including winning Tour de France and the Vuelta in the same year

Now tell me, how many times has LA won the Giro or the Vuelta again?


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## Dave5N (20 Feb 2009)

Christ, not Hinaulat ffs.

Joe, a quiet word mate.

C'mere: The other Avatar was better.


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## wafflycat (20 Feb 2009)

Dave5N said:


> Merckx



Indeed..
Tour de France 5 x overall wins
Giro d'Italia 5 x overall wins
Vuelta 1 x overall win

Then there's all his classic wins including Milan-San Remo 7 x wins as well as the rest..


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## Smokin Joe (20 Feb 2009)

everyone is trumped by Big Ted.

5 Tours
5 Giros
1 Vuelta
Everything else that mattered on the road
The hour
17 six days
Numerous cyclo cross events

He won one in every three races he started in, a record no-one else gets near.


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## Dave5N (21 Feb 2009)

Yeah.

You still need to look at that avatar though.


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## Smokin Joe (21 Feb 2009)

Dave5N said:


> Yeah.
> 
> You still need to look at that avatar though.


It's how I feel, inside


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## Noodley (21 Feb 2009)

Smokin Joe said:


> It's how I feel, inside



You feel like someone who needs to show the world they have been eating beetroot?


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## Chuffy (21 Feb 2009)

Noodley said:


> You feel like someone who needs to show the world they have been eating beetroot?


Be grateful he's not showing us in other ways.


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## Dave5N (21 Feb 2009)

Noodley said:


> You feel like someone who needs to show the world they have been eating beetroot?




You're on form.


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## Keith Oates (21 Feb 2009)

Merckx has to be the man but I also used to like Pantani and the year he got the double made me very happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## kennykool (21 Feb 2009)

Is Pantani the only man that has done the double?

From an earlier post I assume that Eddie Merckx must had done it too?


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## Keith Oates (21 Feb 2009)

Here is the list according to Google:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Eddy Merckx (1970, 1972, 1974) 
Fausto Coppi (1949, 1952) 
Bernard Hinault (1982, 1985) 
Miguel Indurain (1992, 1993) 
Jacques Anquetil (1964) 
Stephen Roche (1987) 
Marco Pantani (1998)


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## kennykool (21 Feb 2009)

Wow....Stephen Roche....I always wondered what he'd done!!!!!

Alberto Contador will be added to that list this year.....IMO


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## Noodley (21 Feb 2009)

kennykool said:


> Wow....Stephen Roche....I always wondered what he'd done!!!!!


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## andy_wrx (21 Feb 2009)

Noodley said:


>



C'mon, give Kenny a break.

 After all, these guys like Roche and Merckx and LeMond were before he was born...


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## wafflycat (21 Feb 2009)

And speaking of before Kenny was born... one must not forget Fausto Coppi..

Giro d'Italia 5 overall, 22 stage wins
Tour de France 2 overall, 9 stage wins
World Road Race Champion 1 win
Milan San Remo 3 wins
Paris Roubaix 1 win
Giro de Lombardia 5 wins
Fleche Wallonne 1 win

and various others including the hour record..

Old Fausto was an elegant figure too. Prisoner of War in WWII...


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## Noodley (21 Feb 2009)

andy_wrx said:


> After all, these guys like Roche and Merckx and LeMond were before he was born...



They were not before he was born, just before Lance. 

I wasn't laughing at him BTW, I just thought it was quite funny.


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## Keith Oates (22 Feb 2009)

kennykool said:


> Wow....Stephen Roche....I always wondered what he'd done!!!!!
> 
> Alberto Contador will be added to that list this year.....IMO



Unless Astana change their plans that will not happen as he's not scheduled to ride the Giro this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## oxbob (22 Feb 2009)

The Badger rules!!!


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## andy_wrx (22 Feb 2009)

The Badger certainly rules when he's chucking protesters off the TdF presentation podium - I bet they were relieved when the police came to arrest them !

Anquetil was a bit before my time, but I found reading _Sex, Lies and Handlebar Tape_ fascinating.


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## Toshiba Boy (22 Feb 2009)

Good thread, being an old git, I forget that many fans to the sport don't know much pre-Lance.

For me:

The 1980's were a particular highlight (Hinault v Lemond, Fignon v Lemond, Millar, Roche and the Colombians).

1990's - Pantani acceleration on the climbs, Boardman's prologues, 94 Tour stages in Brighton and Portsmouth (meeting the likes of Indurain, Lemond, Chiappucci, Yates) - acknowledge this race included a young Armstrong riding in World Champions jersey IIRC.

Old films of the great classy riders of the 40's, 50' and 60's, especially Coppi and Anquetil.

But, of course, one giant, towering above all others, the man that my dad used to constantly talk about when I was a little kid, the one, the only....*Eddy Merckx*, greatest rider of all time, bar none.


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## kennykool (23 Feb 2009)

andy_wrx said:


> C'mon, give Kenny a break.
> 
> After all, these guys like Roche and Merckx and LeMond were before he was born...




Thanks Andy.....I take it all im my stride tho.....Steep Learning curve for me and I am greatful.

I was playing with my He-men when these guys were winning Grand Tours


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## kennykool (23 Feb 2009)

Toshiba boy - I have been tiold that I would enjoy watching some of the old stuff when they didn't have to wear helmets and carried there own spare tyres over there shoulders.....Roads wouldn't have been so smooth either I assume.

The first I actually knew about the TdeF was in 1998 when all the riders sat down in protest...Festina Affair?

It was BIG news and made lots of healines so was hard to miss.

The only real duals I've wittnessed have been between Lance and Ullrich.


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## wafflycat (23 Feb 2009)

Kenny - if you're going to watch one pre-LA tour, watch the 1989 one, where it was all down to the last day time trial and the battle between Fignon & LeMond. 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tour-France-89-Never-Close/dp/B00004CK73 VHS
http://cyclingweekly.ipcshop.co.uk/...e/1989-tour-de-france-dvd---never-so-close626 DVD

LeMond fighting back from nearly a minute down on Fignon... 

The TdF would do well to bring back that final day time trial.


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## yello (23 Feb 2009)

kennykool said:


> I was playing with my He-men when these guys were winning Grand Tours



Ah Kenny... ya awl reet y'a.  

In fairness, I'm a late comer to the sport so we actually probably started paying attention at around about the same time. Difference is, my dad was a keen cyclist and so the name of Eddy Merckx was etched into my forming brain from an early age. 

I also knew that the best bikes were equipped with Campagnolo - before I even knew what it meant, or what alternatives there were! - but we shouldn't go there either!


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## kennykool (23 Feb 2009)

Wafflycat.......VHS?????? what is this? Is that like a "record player?" 

Only kidding i'm 31 not 13

Thanks for the links - will make a purchase soon.


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## papercorn2000 (23 Feb 2009)

Look up Rene Vietto, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rene_Vietto, one of the men who "should" have won at least one tour. Sacrificed himself in 1934 in one of the great tales of Tour heroism.

Here he is; after having heard that his team-leader had broken his wheel, he rode back up the mountain, gave Magnin (?) his wheel and then had to wait for some 20 minutes before he could get a new one. Vietto was, at the time MJ on the road, was off in the lead and looking a shoe-in for the GC.

http://www.pyrenees-passion.info/images/cyclisme/vietto1.jpg


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## papercorn2000 (23 Feb 2009)

And obviously Fausto Coppi - the greatest rider ever.


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## wafflycat (23 Feb 2009)

papercorn2000 said:


> And obviously Fausto Coppi - the greatest rider ever.



Keep up at the back! See post 34 on the thread!


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## kennykool (23 Feb 2009)

papercorn2000 said:


> Look up Rene Vietto, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rene_Vietto, one of the men who "should" have won at least one tour. Sacrificed himself in 1934 in one of the great tales of Tour heroism.
> 
> Here he is; after having heard that his team-leader had broken his wheel, he rode back up the mountain, gave Magnin (?) his wheel and then had to wait for some 20 minutes before he could get a new one. Vietto was, at the time MJ on the road, was off in the lead and looking a shoe-in for the GC.
> 
> http://www.pyrenees-passion.info/images/cyclisme/vietto1.jpg



fascinating....absolutley fascinating!!!!!


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## papercorn2000 (23 Feb 2009)

wafflycat said:


> Keep up at the back! See post 34 on the thread!



I was just adding another vote.

Do you women never listen?


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## mondobongo (24 Feb 2009)

A bit of a character was Louison Bobet who shares a monument on the Col d'Izoard with none other than Fausto Coppi. 

Bobet's major feat is that he was the first man to win 3 back to back Tour de Frances and has a most impressive Palmares:

Tour de France (1953, 1954, 1955)
French National road championship (1950 and 1951)
Milan-Sanremo (1951)
Giro di Lombardia (1951)
Critérium International (1951 & 1952)
Paris-Nice (1952)
Grand Prix des Nations (1952)
World Cycling Championship- Road race (1954)
Ronde van Vlaanderen (1955)
Dauphiné Libéré (1955)
Tour de Luxembourg (1955)
Paris-Roubaix (1956)
Bordeaux-Paris (1959)


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## kennykool (24 Feb 2009)

Mondo....never even heard of that lad. Thanks

cant believe there were so many OTHER great riders....Lance is still THE man tho IMO of course


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## papercorn2000 (3 Mar 2009)

A great GT rider but...


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## monnet (5 Mar 2009)

Great thread.

Of the moments mentioned that I can remember personally the 86 and 89 Tours were incredible. Roche's win in 87 over Delgado was something too (Ligett screaming '...it's Roche, it's Stephen Roche!'). 

Hinault winning Roubaix and his comments afterwards, I paraphrase but along the lines of, 'It's a stupid race. A dangerous race. An anachronism. I hate it but to be a great in cycling you have to win it. Today I've won it, I don't need to ride it again.' He did, of course, ride it again.

And then there's Kelly. Pipped in Flanders. THAT descent of the Poggio to catch Argentin. The green jerseys and all those Paris Nices. 

Then there's all the riders others have mentioned, not to mention the likes of De Vlaeminck, Maertens, Moser, Schotte and all the rest. It's a sport with a beautiful history.


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## papercorn2000 (6 Mar 2009)

And the bit players in those great races - most of them class riders in their own rights... Mottet, Bernard, Herrera, Bauer, Anderson the list goes on...


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## Hilldodger (6 Mar 2009)

Marshall 'Major' Taylor, the first international cycling superstar and the first internationally famous black sportsman.


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