# Help! Campagnolo bar end shifter advice needed please (old style 10 speed)



## booze and cake (19 Jan 2016)

Hi all, some of you may remember back in June following an Ebay win I secured 2 lovely old steel bike frames and a box of spares, see here:
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/show-us-your-steel-its-real.16850/post-3744127
I built up the frames and am loving riding both of them. I recently decided to put some bits from the box of spares that I never planned to use on Ebay, and among these were some Campagnolo bar end shifters as seen on aero bars/TT bikes. These are the exact ones:













I have never used bar end/TT shifters before and never planned to, but they seemed in good condition and the levers moved freely from one end of the range to the other, there was no noticeable 'clicking' but I just assumed this is how they were. I don't know much more about them, I know they are an older models as the new ones look different to this. I knew they were 10 speed as it has '10 speed' etched in faintly on the side of the circular bit in the top shifter in the second picture above.

Has anyone used these shifters? Do they have a click? 

Anyway I put them on Ebay, described as 'Campagnolo 10 speed TT/bar end shifters', I did'nt know anything more about them than that, so in the description I put ' Pair of lovely old style 10 speed Campagnolo bar end shifters' .

They sold last Thursday and I posted them Friday. Today I've had a message from the buyer including '......
*Unfortunately they are not indexed for 10 speed which all 10 speed shifters are designed to do. I.e. click to select the gear. As 10 speed is so close shifting it would make it impossible to ride on a tt bike. So as they do not select the 10 gears I am very disappointed but would be happy to return them for a refund.'*

Can anyone advise me if these shifters shoud in fact 'click' as he is expecting. If they don't click are they faulty? I did'nt offer returns on the original add, but I'm obviously happy to offer a full refund if they are in fact broken, but having no experience in the world of TT'ing Campag or otherwise, I don't know if they are duff or if they are just incompatible with what he already has.(I've no idea what he already has is he has'nt said, but I'm assuming from my ad, Campag??)

Can anyone with knowledge of these particular shifters offer any insight into this 'clicking/indexing business please? Have I misdecribed them?

PS- these shifters and a few other stems I put on Ebay last week were the first things I've ever sold on Ebay, I've only been buying stuff since I joined last summer, so I don't have any 'selling history' or anything to speak of. Not that I want to make a habit of selling on Ebay or anything, but if he reports it I guess it won't look good for me. 

I hope to resolve it without getting stroppy or accussations flying around from either of us, but in the 1st instance just want to know how these things 'should' work. Also if it is best I offer a refund and I relist them, is there anything more specific I should be putting in the ad to avoid such confusion again? Model, to be used with...etc as everything TT'ing is all martian to me. Thanks in advance for any tips.


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## smokeysmoo (19 Jan 2016)

I can't comment on the shifters but as for ebay just take them back and refund him, because if the buyer opens a dispute ebay will favour them over you. 

Once that's done research them on here before relisting, or better still offer them in the CC classifieds.


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## midlife (19 Jan 2016)

A bit modern for me but iirc you could get indexed and non indexed versions depending on the internals.

Shaun


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## booze and cake (19 Jan 2016)

Thanks fellas, yeah I don't want to be an arse about so I'll probably just end up refunding him anyway but I just want to try and find out more about them, so if they are at least working I can describe them properly for resale, here or elsewhere. 

I could be wrong but I've not seen much mention of Campag TT kit here, not that I've been looking, but if anyone's interested I may have these available soon

I did'nt even know there was different indexed or non indexed versions available, and how to tell them apart, so I admit my ignorance there but I'm keen to learn more Alas the Campag website search for models and documentation often drives me to cake, and worse!


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## winjim (19 Jan 2016)

You could go through your listing with a fine toothed comb to find a reason not to refund, but it's probably less hassle to just take them back and sell them on here. I might even buy them off you if nobody else wants them


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## booze and cake (19 Jan 2016)

haha OK thanks, I got to figure out the procedure for getting them back first I agree, could argue the toss as I don'rt think I've claimed they're anything they're not, but long legal wrangles I don't have the time or inclination for, its seller beware as much as buyer beware I guess..

So a cursory glance at Ebay 'help' tells me I'm liable for returns postage. OK, begrudgingly, I assume I'll have to specify for recorded delivery, whats to stop him saying he posted it and not bother? Oh well off to the terms and conditions for me, groan, I had other worthless internet stuff to do instead

First impressions of selling on ebay, more faff than its worth.


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## winjim (19 Jan 2016)

I got a complaint once about an item I had sold for a pound. I refunded the pound and told them they could keep the item. Life's too short.

My real gripe about selling on ebay is that they include postage when calculating seller's fees. That can't be right can it? I think you need to be a dedicated high volume or high value seller for it actually to be worth the hassle.


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## steve50 (20 Jan 2016)

The shifters will be the "friction" type not indexed. ask the buyer to return the item for full refund which will be refunded upon your receipt of the shifters.
As above i would do a bit more research about the item before selling on ebay or you could always sell them on here.


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## raleighnut (20 Jan 2016)

I've got those shifters on one of my bikes and they don't 'click' like Shimano ones do but mine are still indexed. The one with the adjuster on is the rear and on mine all it does is it's a bit 'notchy'.
The other ting that may have happened is that they have been taken apart and they are unbelievably complex inside compared to the similar Shimano ones, I'll try and find the exploded diagram either in my shed or online.
I'd tell him to return them for a refund as he may either be an arse hoping that you'll just refund him and he gets to keep them or he'll try posting negative feedback. Oh and registered post is a good idea as they may well end up 'lost' in the post.


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## Milkfloat (20 Jan 2016)

I would not refund his postage costs - you are allowing the return out of the goodness of your heart.


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## winjim (20 Jan 2016)

Save yourself the hassle and the postage costs by getting him to send them to my house.


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## deptfordmarmoset (20 Jan 2016)

I use Shimano bar end shifters and I can switch from indexed to friction. In fact, in a moment of laziness when the indexing needed tweaking I swapped over to friction and I've never wanted to switch back. The switching is done by giving the fold-down loop thingummy a half turn. I've no idea about Campagnolo but perhaps they have the same ability to switch.


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## booze and cake (20 Jan 2016)

raleighnut said:


> I've got those shifters on one of my bikes and they don't 'click' like Shimano ones do but mine are still indexed. The one with the adjuster on is the rear and on mine all it does is it's a bit 'notchy'.
> The other ting that may have happened is that they have been taken apart and they are unbelievably complex inside compared to the similar Shimano ones, I'll try and find the exploded diagram either in my shed or online.
> I'd tell him to return them for a refund as he may either be an arse hoping that you'll just refund him and he gets to keep them or he'll try posting negative feedback. Oh and registered post is a good idea as they may well end up 'lost' in the post.



Brilliant, thanks very much for this, and the diagram is very handy, cheers again. Haha about them being complicated, I've taken apart some Record 10 Speed ultrashift levers to replace a broken gear shift paddle and another time to replace the g-springs, and it was such a stressful and nerve wracking experience I almost needed a course of medication to recover. It was like Campag were making it as fiddly and convoluted as possible on purpose, I actually took photos at each stage in case I forgot which order things went back, and almost dropped a few tiny springs down floorboards causing heart stopping panic, it took me at least 10 times longer than it did the bloke on the campag video who just breezed through it all in a few minutes. Some space missions have proved easier.

I've messaged the guy today saying that even though I feel I don't technically have to refund him, I'm willing to do so but don't see why I should pay the postage, I said I'd contact him again when I knew more about how to arrange it all.

It sounds like I can ask that he returns the goods by recorded delivery (to eliminate any 'gone missing/not sent shenanigans), and that when I have the goods I will then fully refund him? If so, great.

The next thing is that as this is the first time I've sold anything on Ebay, when I log into Paypal it says money is paid in, but its not showing as available as they will withhold the money for up to 21 days in case there's any seller shenanigans, oh the hilarity! It may happen sooner, it may not, they don't say. So if I don't have the money, can I refund it? I doubt the buyer will be happy to wait up to 21 days for a refund, does this mean I just have to pay him out of my own cash? Surely not. I don't have any money in that account at the moment, so am I now going to have to transfer money into this account, then pay him for my goods which he has, and I may get the original payment from Ebay/Paypal at some point in up to the next 21 days? Sheesh, that has to be wrong or its a really unneccessary ball-ache, who wrote that policy, Campagnolo?


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## Mr Bunbury (6 Apr 2016)

Campagnolo 10 speed TT shifters have 10 indexed positions. That's what makes them "10 speed" shifters. Trust me, I've used them. If these were friction shifters (possibly with a 10 speed part retrofitted), you very much do have to refund him as the item you sold was not the item you described. 

As for the ergoshifter where you replaced the G springs, the Shimano equivalent isn't any simpler!


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## oldroadman (2 May 2016)

If these came from a box of old bits, they may well have been bar end shifters as used on road and CX. They sit it the end of the bars so shifting on the drops I=s easy. They will be friction and could be used with 5 speed upwards. The exploded diagram shown earlier in the thread looks like a down tube lever, a bit different from bar end!
At one time they were extensively used on the road, sprinters liked them as you could slam the lever into top with 200 to go and hope it all worked...!
The real home was CX, where all the top blokes used them, this before the days of indexing, when men were men, etc...(cont'd P.94)


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## raleighnut (2 May 2016)

oldroadman said:


> If these came from a box of old bits, they may well have been bar end shifters as used on road and CX. They sit it the end of the bars so shifting on the drops I=s easy. They will be friction and could be used with 5 speed upwards. The exploded diagram shown earlier in the thread looks like a down tube lever, a bit different from bar end!
> At one time they were extensively used on the road, sprinters liked them as you could slam the lever into top with 200 to go and hope it all worked...!
> The real home was CX, where all the top blokes used them, this before the days of indexing, when men were men, etc...(cont'd P.94)


If you look at the part in the centre bottom of the diagram I posted you'll see the expander plug that fits into the end of a set of handlebars, they are certainly bar end shifters. I know cos I own a set.


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## oldroadman (2 May 2016)

raleighnut said:


> If you look at the part in the centre bottom of the diagram I posted you'll see the expander plug that fits into the end of a set of handlebars, they are certainly bar end shifters. I know cos I own a set.


Missed that! Apols, I was a better rider than techie...not much better though!


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## raleighnut (2 May 2016)

oldroadman said:


> Missed that! Apols, I was a better rider than techie...not much better though!


I only posted the diagram to show just how complex the things are, if anyone took a lever apart then god only knows how they'd manage to re-assemble them correctly.


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## oldroadman (2 May 2016)

raleighnut said:


> I only posted the diagram to show just how complex the things are, if anyone took a lever apart then god only knows how they'd manage to re-assemble them correctly.


It's as if someone had said "let's make it as difficult for non-professionals as possible, the agents will be pleased with the extra service work and sales of new stuff because people can't ever re-assemble properly!". Not that it might be a commercial decision, just like car makers and the need for a plug-in laptop with diagnostic software, oh no, of course not.
And oddly enough, the fishing reel company and the one that offers Red seem about the same.....


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