# I am thinking of coming over to the dark side.



## Dave7 (24 Oct 2020)

Not been able to cycle since this ***** virus got me in February. Aged 73 I am thinking ebikes.
I want comfort.
What think the CC masses of this one?
Any suggestions welcome.

https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/bikes/electric-bikes/


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## 13 rider (24 Oct 2020)

If it gets you riding to for it . I often chat to a lady on a Ribble e road bike on my commute she just uses the motor when riding with the hubby at the weekends apparently he's a bit quick the rest of the time she rides it as a normal bike and says the weight penalty is not that bad .
I really like the look of the Ribble range as they don't look like an E bike just a normal road bike 
One other thing don't ever beat me up a climb on it


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## Sharky (24 Oct 2020)

Go for it - you'll be grinning like a Cheshire cat


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## dan_bo (24 Oct 2020)

Do it.


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## Drago (24 Oct 2020)

I'm enjoying mine Dave. I don't need it, but it brings a different dimension to cycling.

Remember though, 250Wh is 250Wh, regardless of the bike. Most modern motors do decent torque of 50 or 60NM, some even claim 70 (although I habe my suspicions) so its more a case of finding the bike itself that suits you rather than getting too hung up on much else, except perhaps battery capacity.


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## Sharky (24 Oct 2020)

If you are coming over to the dark side, you'll need the full kit


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## Rusty Nails (24 Oct 2020)

I like the look of that Ribble gravel bike. At the age of 73 I think something like that may be on the horizon. If I was looking for an e-bike I think the most important thing would be the reliability and/or replaceability of the battery so research there is important.

A friend of mine who is 77 has finally made up his mind to get an electric bike for the more hilly rides and his week long cycle tours, to alternate with his Mercians. He is a lifelong cyclist who was a keen TT'er from the age of 14 and has been mulling this decision over for a couple of years, and the rapid improvements in this field have helped him make his mind up.


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## RichardB (24 Oct 2020)

Do it. I love mine. It got me back in to cycling after a period of being 'not very well' and I will always be glad I did. I still have it, and use it for heavy shopping trips and days when I just want an effortless blast round the lanes (and it's still massive fun) although now I am fitter I don't strictly need it. Good luck.


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## ColinJ (24 Oct 2020)

Sharky said:


> If you are coming over to the dark side, you'll need the full kit


The aero helmet should help him knock a few seconds off his '25' PB, but I'm afraid that his torn skinsuit will lose him all of those gains, and much more!


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## gzoom (24 Oct 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Not been able to cycle since this ***** virus got me in February. Aged 73 I am thinking ebikes.
> I want comfort.
> What think the CC masses of this one?
> Any suggestions welcome.



Any bike is good, any eBike is good, the choice and range is massive as is the cost. 

Pick a budget and go from there .


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## Cycleops (24 Oct 2020)

Why not? Of course you'll have to endure cries of 'Cheat, cheat' from kids who see you zipping along without pedalling


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## jowwy (24 Oct 2020)

Drago said:


> I'm enjoying mine Dave. I don't need it, but it brings a different dimension to cycling.
> 
> Remember though, 250Wh is 250Wh, regardless of the bike. Most modern motors do decent torque of 50 or 60NM, some even claim 70 (although I habe my suspicions) so its more a case of finding the bike itself that suits you rather than getting too hung up on much else, except perhaps battery capacity.


Some even claim 85Nm too.....so many out there now


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## Dave7 (24 Oct 2020)

Cycleops said:


> Why not? Of course you'll have to endure cries of 'Cheat, cheat' from kids who see you zipping along without pedalling


Do i understand correctly that you must keep pedaling as normal or free wheel ie you can't just use the battery ?


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## ColinJ (24 Oct 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Do i understand correctly that you must keep pedaling as normal or free wheel ie you can't just use the battery ?


The UK regulations are *HERE*. Note this one...



Regulations said:


> *Getting vehicle approval for your electric bike*
> An electric bike must be type approved if either:
> 
> it can be propelled without pedalling (a ‘twist and go’ EAPC**)
> ...



** _EAPC = Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycle_


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## keithmac (24 Oct 2020)

Theres cadence or torque sensing to get the motor working.

Most use both, the torque sensing makes it feel more natural (the motor multiplies your input).


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## midlife (24 Oct 2020)

Silly question, does that ribble in the OP have a motor in the rear hub? I thought it was better to have them in the bottom bracket?

I don't know a lot about electric bikes but at 60 I'm keeping an eye out


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## RichardB (24 Oct 2020)

Hub motor: advantage - simpler, cheaper, easier on transmission as additional power doesn't go through drivetrain. Disadvantage - doesn't benefit from gearing, i.e. runs at speed of rear wheel, so when going very slowly (up steep hill) can drop out of efficient range and struggle.

Crank motor: advantage - feels more natural (some say), motor turns at speed of pedals, so benefits from gears, i.e. stays in efficient speed range more. Disadvantage: more expensive, less accessible if needing attention/replacement, harder on transmissions as full motor power is going through drivetrain. Clumsy gear changes can sound very noisy and/or expensive.

Mine has a hub motor and I am happy with it. My wife's had a Bosch crank drive and it was OK too. Overall prefer the hub motor, but YMMV.


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## cougie uk (24 Oct 2020)

I think all of the Ribble bikes have hub motors.

I've seen it said that the frame motors are better but they're more expensive and heavier too. 

How far would you ride ? The Ribble has a smaller battery so it's almost indistinguishable from a normal bike but it hasn't the range of some of the more expensive e bikes.


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## RichardB (24 Oct 2020)

cougie uk said:


> I've seen it said that the frame motors are better but they're more expensive and heavier too.



Define 'better'. There are advantages to both systems IMO.


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## Pale Rider (25 Oct 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Do i understand correctly that you must keep pedaling as normal or free wheel ie you can't just use the battery ?



That is true for most road legal ebikes.

Bear in mind the motors are not balls of fire anyway, so even if you could just 'use the battery' it wouldn't do a lot more than trundle you along on level ground - provided there was no headwind.

The Ribble bikes use the Ebikemotion motor, which is lighter and weaker than most of the crank drives, such as the Bosch.

This 'light assist' gives better range, but is better suited to fitter and lighter riders who only want a limited amount of assistance.


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## Dave7 (25 Oct 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> That is true for most road legal ebikes.
> 
> Bear in mind the motors are not balls of fire anyway, so even if you could just 'use the battery' it wouldn't do a lot more than trundle you along on level ground - provided there was no headwind.
> 
> ...


Thank you.
I am 11 stone so reasonably light.
73 but reasonably fit ie before this virus hit I could comfortably ride 30+ miles (only a bad neck caused problems).
So ......
Can I ask, bearing in mind I want as light as reasonably possible + comfort, .....can you suggest any other bikes ??
Thanks again.


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## Dave7 (25 Oct 2020)

cougie uk said:


> I think all of the Ribble bikes have hub motors.
> 
> I've seen it said that the frame motors are better but they're more expensive and heavier too.
> 
> How far would you ride ? The Ribble has a smaller battery so it's almost indistinguishable from a normal bike but it hasn't the range of some of the more expensive e bikes.


Hi.
If you are asking me......I will be happy with 35 mile but most would be in the 20 mile range. 80-90% road and some trails eg Pennine Way so nothing rough.


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## Phaeton (25 Oct 2020)

I think the best way would be to go ride one/few to see what you think, as a general rule I would have thought one where the battery can be removed from the bike would be a better option, possibly not as neat looking but if the battery fails it can be replaced, it can also be brought inside for winter storage & for charging. I have MTB ebike so can't really comment on road ebikes, I use mine for reconnaissance of new routes, where I'm not sure how I will fair.


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## gzoom (25 Oct 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Can I ask, bearing in mind I want as light as reasonably possible + comfort, .....can you suggest any other bikes ??
> Thanks again.



If you want light weight than Fazua powered bikes is your other option. These are mid drive bikes and gives you a range of anything between 30-100 miles depending on how hard you want to pedal.

My Boardman Fauza hybrid is just under 16kg with pedals, its light by eBike standards but still a very fat/heavy compared to my road bike which is under 8kg.

Interestingly my speed on both my eBike and road bike is very similar and perceived effort levels similar. Though is you really wanted to take it easy, on max boost riding up a 8% incline on the eBike at sub 15mph is like sitting on the sofa watching TV versus hitting max heart rate on my road bike .....However you pay for the assistance with range drops, if all you did was use max boost at sub 15mph on a decent incline you can drain the battery in sub 20 miles.


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## Mike_P (25 Oct 2020)

Good point re one with a removable battery, if the ebike will be housed in an unheated outbuilding then the battery will be affected by the cold so as I found out; would be almost flat first thing in the morning but without being charged was well charged come midday, so best the take the battery indoors


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## Drago (25 Oct 2020)

midlife said:


> Silly question, does that ribble in the OP have a motor in the rear hub? I thought it was better to have them in the bottom bracket?
> 
> I don't know a lot about electric bikes but at 60 I'm keeping an eye out


On a bike intended for tarmac use it matters not one jot if its mid or rear drive.


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## Pale Rider (25 Oct 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Thank you.
> I am 11 stone so reasonably light.
> 73 but reasonably fit ie before this virus hit I could comfortably ride 30+ miles (only a bad neck caused problems).
> So ......
> ...



Seems likely a light assist bike would suit you.

As @gzoom says, your other option is a Fazua mid drive which will offer a similar level of assist and range to the Ebikemotion motor on the Ribble.

Fazua bikes were dearer until Halfords came along and knocked about a grand off the price being asked by other makers for a Fazua.

The way the assist is delivered is more sophisticated on the Fazua, making it feel more like ordinary cycling.

Driving through the gears makes it a better prospect on steep hills.

A hub drive motor can stall, or even burn out, if you can't keep the bike (and motor) up to a reasonable climbing speed.

That cannot really happen with a mid drive because the motor would be driving through first gear, enabling the motor to keep whirring away.

I thrashed my Bosch mid drive up a long and steep in places climb in the Yorkshire Dales.

The motor casing wasn't even warm at the top, although there was some detectable warmth in the battery due to the high current draw.

I've not tried an Ebikemotion on anything really steep, but if it's properly designed it will have cut out protection, so the motor would stop before it lunched itself or the controller.

It's also unlikely you will encounter stall conditions in Cheshire.


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## Dave7 (25 Oct 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Seems likely a light assist bike would suit you.
> 
> As @gzoom says, your other option is a Fazua mid drive which will offer a similar level of assist and range to the Ebikemotion motor on the Ribble.
> 
> ...


Many thanks. Your advice (along with others) is much appreciated.
If you have any other thoughts feel free to tell me.


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## gzoom (25 Oct 2020)

Just to add even a 250watt motor bike is more than powerful enough.

To win the Tour de France this year 'just' 370watts was needed as a sustained effort over the stage 10 time trial.

https://cyclingtips.com/2020/10/roglics-power-numbers-from-tour-tt-and-several-key-climbs-revealed/

My Fazua puts out a genuine 200watt+, when you add in even just 100watts of your own power you are basically at pro athlete power levels. Ofcourse having a heavier bike and less aero means you are still slower, but non of these eBike motors are under powered. I hit average power ratings of near 300watts when pushing on with the eBike, and trust me sadly there is no way am within 70watts of the Tour de France winner using just my own legs 






One thing that may change things is I understand hub motors don't offer you the gearing choice mid motors have, the Woosh website seems to suggest this. So one advantage of mid drive bikes is access to gearing allowing for more flexibility for work load distribution between rider and motor.

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?motorcharts


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## midlife (25 Oct 2020)

Quick question, if you are doing 28 kph won't the motor have cut out so you are getting no assist at all.?


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## fossyant (25 Oct 2020)

Those Ribble E Gravel bikes look great, and quite cheap. You'd struggle to tell it's an ebike. This would give you a bit of everything.


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## Cycleops (25 Oct 2020)

Seems some of the premium ebikes are beginning to look like motorbikes. This is the latest Canyon:
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/B8khvyBByKG4qhdYJ22a55-1200-80.jpg.webp


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## Dave7 (25 Oct 2020)

fossyant said:


> Those Ribble E Gravel bikes look great, and quite cheap. You'd struggle to tell it's an ebike. This would give you a bit of everything.


They do look nice.
My main priority is comfort for my neck and therefore more upright.
I did borrow a gravel drop bar a couple of years ago and was well impressed.


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## keithmac (25 Oct 2020)

Hub motor is quieter and dare I say possibly more reliable?.

I built an MTB with mid drive motor and use my Gtech hub drive for commuting.

As much as I like the MTB, hand on heart the Gtech Hub drive just does the business with no faf and no noise.


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## Drago (25 Oct 2020)

midlife said:


> Quick question, if you are doing 28 kph won't the motor have cut out so you are getting no assist at all.?



Yes.


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## keithmac (25 Oct 2020)

If you're legal anything after 15.5mph is all legs, you can either stay under that or buy a lighter ebike and use the grunt for the hills.

My Gtech weights in at 15kg, 5ah battery, the MTB 20 ish but 15ah battery and more grunt.


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## gzoom (25 Oct 2020)

midlife said:


> Quick question, if you are doing 28 kph won't the motor have cut out so you are getting no assist at all.?



Yes, what I've found essentially by having the extra boost up hills it raises your average speed alot, on the flat the extra weight of the eBike isn't a huge penalty especially as I have aero bars fitted, it also means when I get to the flat bits my legs are no where near as tired so can push harder.

This is the effect of having the electrical support up a hill, over 500watts total peak power output for a near 15% gradient ...





....but because I was actually contributing less than 200watts, I could maintain near 300watts on the flat sections for longer - I haven't worked out my FTP but I suspect is well below 200watts, so essentially the electrical assistance is allowing me to go into the anaerobic zones for longer during short rides without suffering too badly for it as overall.

I see my eBike as much of a fitness tool as my road bike, but just with the option of been ultra lazy if I wanted too. Oh I've also never had a powermeter before, but the mid mount eBikes I think can all provide these kind of figures, great if you are a number geek .


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## gzoom (25 Oct 2020)

keithmac said:


> As much as I like the MTB, hand on heart the Gtech Hub drive just does the business with no faf and no noise.
> 
> View attachment 554414



Belt drive stuff looks interesting, certainly appealing in current weather interms of maintenance, what kind of climbing power do you get?


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