# Knocked off!



## PJ79LIZARD (31 Aug 2011)

Got knocked off tonight, car 100m in front facing me indicating to turn to my left his right. There is nothing in front of me so clear sight to me, I slow a little anticipating him to make the manoeuvre, he doesn't so continue, this is happening at about 20 mph in a fluid motion, I get right on him, he makes the turn I hit the car fly over the roof and land on the floor.

I get up walk towards the kerb take off my rucksack feel chest pain and severe shoulder pain. Sit down, people start gathering driver comes over calling ambulance. Big lump on my shoulder, start getting blured vision and sickness feeling.

Ambulance turns up, police attend. Driver admits fault, get took to hospital, x rayed, they say I've torn the ligaments holding my collar bone in place so it's moving about, my arms dropping slightly and the collar bones sticking up, got to go back mon to see what's what. 6 to 8 weeks to heal. I'm gutted. Sling on and pain killers. Want to get drivers insurance details to make a claim, but the driver wants to come to mutual agreement by the looks of it and not go through his insurance,

I'm unsure, what sort of claim payout can you receive for such an accident? Anyone else had a similar experience?


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## Archie_tect (31 Aug 2011)

Driver must provide insurance details... if he refuses then tell the police.


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## Ashtrayhead (31 Aug 2011)

Definitely go down the insurance route, especially as you don't know the full extent and effect of your injuries at present!


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## rualexander (31 Aug 2011)

Yes go with the insurance claim. Driver is trying to avoid losing some of his no claims bonus and increased premiums, assuming he actually has insurance.


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## crazy580 (31 Aug 2011)

I got £2000 for a sprained ankle, personally I would have been happy if they just replaced the bike.


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## PJ79LIZARD (1 Sep 2011)

The trouble is I may be off work for 6 weeks or longer, my job is physical so I can't work now. My bike is pretty messed up to, I'd just got it how I wanted it. I'm not going to be able to cycle I'm gutted!


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## crazy580 (1 Sep 2011)

You can claim for injury, replacement/repair of belongings and loss of earnings.


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## Red Light (1 Sep 2011)

I'm going to advise differently from the others. Get good advice on what your damages should be (bike, injury, pain, time off work etc) and put it to him. He may well settle straight off if you have a good case put together for how much it is. If it goes to the insurance company you could spend ages fighting them for compensation and them trying all the tricks in their book to reduce it. You will get there in the end with determination, lots of time and patience and professional advice but you could have it all sorted in a few weeks doing it direct.


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## spacecat (1 Sep 2011)

I hope everything gets sorted and It's not too long before your back on the bike.

I share your pain, ouch. Get well soon.


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## CopperCyclist (1 Sep 2011)

Minor Whiplash paid someone I know 1500. Broken ribs gave someone else 2000. Go through his insurance.


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## growingvegetables (1 Sep 2011)

First - you need to think of yourself; rest, start to get well again. Nothing else for the moment. And certainly not while you're on painkillers.

Second - the driver has no choice; he's injured you.


> If any personal injury is caused to another person, the driver must also produce a valid insurance certificate if asked to do so by a police officer, *injured person, or anyone else directly or indirectly involved in the accident. *If the insurance certificate is asked for, but not produced at the time, the accident must be reported to a police station as soon as practicable, or in any case within 24 hours, and the insurance certificate must be taken to a police station within seven days of the accident


[edit - sorry, that's from the CAB



Third - there is no way the driver should even be talking such **** at this point - and certainly not to you, directly/indirectly. 

Sorry to hear what's happened - and best wishes for speedy recovery.


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## gaz (1 Sep 2011)

DO NOT ANYTHING WITHOUT SEEKING THE ADVISE OF A SOLICITOR.

As you say, you will be off work for quite some time and you will not be able to work again till you are fit so you will have lose of earnings.
If you are a member of the CTC (if not join) (I think BC also has a similar service), then use the service provided by RJ&W who deal with cycling related collisions and injuries regularly and the costs are covered by your CTC membership.

You will be able to get the drivers details and his insurance details from the police. Just make sure you have the crime reference number related to your incident.

What you need to do is take note of all the pain you have and the issues you have, do this daily so you and others can monitor your progress and it can be used to look back and see just how bad you where. Kept receipts for travel, parking tickets etc.. for getting to and from follow up appointments with the docs etc.. as you will be able to claim all of this back.


I know the pain you are in, I'm still recovering from a broken collar bone and i'm having some issues with the ligaments that are attached to it. I've had a stiff neck for 10 weeks, with tight nerves and ligaments.


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## Red Light (1 Sep 2011)

growingvegetables said:


> Second - the driver has no choice; he's injured you.
> [edit - sorry, that's from the CAB



That's a requirement to show that he has insurance, not so you can contact his insurance company. The contact has to be with the driver unless and until he asks the insurance company to step in for him.





> Third - there is no way the driver should even be talking such **** at this point - and certainly not to you, directly/indirectly.



The case is with the driver, not the insurance company. The insurance company is there to cover the driver for any costs he has to pay out if the driver asks them to. When I had an accident and took it to Court, I named the driver and her insurance company as defendants. The judge struck the insurance company off the claim and said the dispute was between myself and the driver only. Its the drivers choice as to whether they wish to pay up themselves or fall back on their insurance to pay. The OP is quite entitled if they wish though to appoint a solicitor and ask the driver to deal with them instead.


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## BrumJim (1 Sep 2011)

Gutted for you, mate. Hope you heel well in the next few weeks. Glad to hear that you appear to be suffering ligament damage only. Thank goodness the important stuff appears to be OK.

Oh, and more importantly, how is the bike?


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## smiorgan (1 Sep 2011)

Really sorry to hear about your bad luck.

At this time, do not be pressured into making any settlement (insurance or otherwise)! You need to know if you have a longer term injury.

I don't want to scare you but your losses could include future loss of earnings as well as the 6 weeks you take to recover. My reference is a friend and colleague who got knocked off on a roundabout, no question about liability but the problem was his shoulder - it meant he could no longer lift a ladder above head height and so lost his job as auxilliary fireman. The payout was in the *high tens of thousands* owing to loss of future earnings.

That stage involved a solicitor, years of back-and-forth with the driver's insurers, etc.

This will probably seem like a lot, and may seem like "trying it on" with the other party to get damages you may not feel entitled to. Whether that's the case or not, don't make any decisions yourself and get a solicitor to advise you. Hopefully you'll fully recover and this measure will have been over the top, but it would royally suck if you had a long term injury that affects your work and you didn't get your due compensation.

REPEAT, GET A SOLICITOR!

And otherwise concentrate on your recovery. GWS dude.


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## fossyant (1 Sep 2011)

*Bad Luck !!* 

Do not settle anything - it will need to go insurance route, as you'll likely need plenty of physio. Gaz is correct.

I'll tell you now, you'll have problems for a long time with your shoulder, and may need operations. Sounds like a torn rotator cuff - look it up - there are lots of muscles and ligaments in there. 

My supraspinatus was damaged in my accident as well as other things, a/c joint sprain, compressed shoulder, etc. I had the shoulder decompressed 2 years later, but the muscle is still very bad, and I've got permanent nerve damage. Still seeing a physio with my shoulder and back.

Get to the GP, make sure you go back to the hospital, speak to solicitor, and enquire with GP/hospital about physio - you'll likely have to pay for it I'm afraid.

Shoulders are very complex joints, but are susceptible to damage like this - it's very common with cyclists. 

I hope your GP is a good one - mine has been great, and speak about getting a referral to the Shoulder Clinic at your local hospital. If you speak to the GP or a physio, they have a couple of tests which will highlight rotator cuff, or A/C joint damage - it entails moving your arm in a couple of positions - if painful then they can pin point the problems.

Hope you aren't feeling to bad today.


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## Beebo (1 Sep 2011)

+1 to the above.

You say the police attended so they will have the drivers details and will let you know whether he is insured or not.

If he is insured claim via them, if he's uninsured you will be able to make a claim via the MIB (Motor Insurers Bureau - not the Men In Balck).

A solicitor will explain that you will have two heads of claim, general damages which are your physical injuries and special damages which are the loss of earnings and medical bills etc. these can add up to a significant sum over a long period of time.

Good luck, hope you get back riding soon.


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## 400bhp (1 Sep 2011)

Red Light said:


> I'm going to advise differently from the others. Get good advice on what your damages should be (bike, injury, pain, time off work etc) and put it to him. He may well settle straight off if you have a good case put together for how much it is. If it goes to the insurance company you could spend ages fighting them for compensation and them trying all the tricks in their book to reduce it. You will get there in the end with determination, lots of time and patience and professional advice but you could have it all sorted in a few weeks doing it direct.



Don't take this advice.

You don't know the individual and are just playing with fire. It will generally get you nowhere. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard the story (on a car forum I frequent) "driver said he would pay for damages personally and hasn't paid up"


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## benb (1 Sep 2011)

Get well soon. Can you cycle one-handed? 

As per most of your advice, do not settle now, as your injuries may be worse than you think.
Solicitor, definitely.


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## PJ79LIZARD (1 Sep 2011)

Well I've had hardly any sleep, I'm suffering from A/C joint seperation, the ligaments that hold your collar bone in place, they are both torn as my collar bone is trying to come out my skin when I move in any position but lying down, I've never experienced such pain, I've had other injuries in the past. But this is intense, it must be pressing on nerves. I can't see how the ligaments are going to rejoin as everytime I move it pops upwards. All the hospital did was put my arm in a sling ant told me to take ibuprofen and paracetamol.

They said a break would of been less painfull. I'm thinking of going back as the pain is so bad.

Haven't been able to check my bike properly as I'm stuck lying down as it's the only pain free position. I'm not looking forward to my next toilet visit, it took me 4 attempts this morning at 3 o'clock, I probably woke the neighbours with the screams. I feel like I'm going to vomit from the pain when I stand up. 

I can't believe I've got to wait til mon before I see anyone at the hospital. I don't think I can manage like this til then.


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## Angelfishsolo (1 Sep 2011)

PJ79LIZARD said:


> Well I've had hardly any sleep, I'm suffering from A/C joint seperation, the ligaments that hold your collar bone in place, they are both torn as my collar bone is trying to come out my skin when I move in any position but lying down, I've never experienced such pain, I've had other injuries in the past. But this is intense, it must be pressing on nerves. I can't see how the ligaments are going to rejoin as everytime I move it pops upwards. All the hospital did was put my arm in a sling ant told me to take ibuprofen and paracetamol.
> 
> They said a break would of been less painfull. I'm thinking of going back as the pain is so bad.
> 
> ...



Unless you are allergic F*ck Ibuprofen and get someone to buy you Co-Codimol (8/500 or 30/500 is possible). You can mix it with anti inflammatory tablets and it will certainly take the edge off the pain.


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## BentMikey (1 Sep 2011)

Gutted for you mate, that sucks.

Like almost everyone else has said, go the solicitor route.


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## Origamist (1 Sep 2011)

Fisrt off, get well soon.

Gaz, Fossy etc are right. At this stage, do not make an offer to the driver as ligament damage can have potentially serious, long-term implications and could affect your future earnings potential (sorry to sound pessimistic, but in these situations considering worst case scenarios should be part of your decision making process). 

If you do go down the legal/insurance route, expect it to be a protracted and often frustrating experience. Do not expect justice, just try to view it as a financial negotiation and play hard-ball.


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## billy1561 (1 Sep 2011)

Wow that's some whack you have taken there fella. Can't offer any advice above what others have said really but it just goes to show you how easy it is to get knocked off. Can never be too careful.
Hope your recovery is swift mate.


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## upsidedown (1 Sep 2011)

PJ sorry to hear about your incident, hope you get better soon. If the A&E you went to was Russells Hall i would think very seriously about going somewhere else for a second opinion.

paul


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## coffeejo (1 Sep 2011)

Get well soon


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## MissTillyFlop (1 Sep 2011)

PJ79LIZARD said:


> Got knocked off tonight, car 100m in front facing me indicating to turn to my left his right. There is nothing in front of me so clear sight to me, I slow a little anticipating him to make the manoeuvre, he doesn't so continue, this is happening at about 20 mph in a fluid motion, I get right on him, he makes the turn I hit the car fly over the roof and land on the floor.
> 
> I get up walk towards the kerb take off my rucksack feel chest pain and severe shoulder pain. Sit down, people start gathering driver comes over calling ambulance. Big lump on my shoulder, start getting blured vision and sickness feeling.
> 
> ...



Doesn't matter what he wants to do, go to his insurance company now. If you are a member of any cycling bodies, advise them now.

He is liable and if he has insurance, then it's up for them to decide how to proceed, not him. Even if he doesn't give you the details, the police can get them in minutes anyway.

I used to work for an insurance company and so many drivers try to get out of personal injury claims, it's untrue.

Forgot to say - hope you are ok and not in too much shock. I wish you a speedy recovery.


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## fossyant (1 Sep 2011)

AC Joint separation is very bad mate. I won't beat around the bush, but it mainly ends up with an operation. 

Red Light is totally wrong. As for the other person offering to settle, your injury falls into the Serious Shoulder Injury category - £8k plus.

This injury will take a significant amount of time to heal back to 100% - if indeed it will. Keep an eye on it and get to see the GP as well this week - this does need referring to a Specialist.

Take a look here A/C Joint injury

Yours is at *least* a 3, mine was only 1 or 2. 

No 1 concern is getting well - back to GP ASAP, ask for a referral (these take about 2 months), also check out a physio - they won't touch you at present, but it's worth speaking to them. Both my GP and physio said I needed a shoulder decompression just a month after the accident - it took a further two years to get the operation. I've also damaged my brachial plexus (nerves in neck) and I wouldn't be surprised if that's happened to you.

As the docs mentioned, a break is probably less painful - I certainly wished my collar bone had broken.

The GP can also give you stronger co-codamol - ibuprofen won't touch it. Over the counter stuff is only 6mg - the GP will most likely give you 15mg or 30mg - I was on 30mg tabs after the op, 15mg's before. Just watch side effects - make you feel a bit weird - muggy head, and it caused me to get eczema.

Take it easy, and get some stronger co-codamol.

PS Take time now to single finger type up your accident notes. I did mine the day after, and I do need to refer to it for issues like pain, where and when, because you'll need this further down the line when speaking to either your solicitor, or indeed consultants.


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## fossyant (1 Sep 2011)

PS Feel free to PM me if you'd prefer some advice about routes to go/what to do next.

I'm with BC, and the delay in sorting my claim out had been getting to the bottom of the problems - I still don't expect a quick resolution - my concern now is finding a medication for nerve pain, and one that suits me - my current one knocks me out at night (can't take it in the day) and I've been told there is better. My solicitor is currently trying to get me referred privately to get my meds sorted, and of course get further physio - to be paid by the third party, as I'm currently significantly out of pocket.


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## smiorgan (1 Sep 2011)

Man, I feel for you. I count my blessings that the same hasn't happened to me.

+1 to what Fossyant says re: going back to GP - push for better painkillers, referral etc. Sadly you're probably going to have to fight for this on top of sorting your claim out. That sort of thing really wears you down. Don't let the doctor fob you off, IME the first consultation always ends with "it will probably sort itself out with time" which is not always true.

Good luck dude


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## ClichéGuevara (1 Sep 2011)

Are the Police considering legal action against the driver?


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## Wankelschrauben (1 Sep 2011)

I have had a similar injury whilst playing rugby a few years ago.

I was told by the hospital that it would never heal properly and that it may cause issues later in life that will require surgery.

I get problems with my shoulder, it play's up whilst cycling where it litterally just falls limp, it fails under load at the gym, it aches constantly whilst driving ect. ect. I don't have full movement either.

Seriously, if I had that caused in a car accident I'd be expecting tens of thousands of pounds in compensation at least.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (1 Sep 2011)

Wankelschrauben said:


> I was told by the hospital that it would never heal properly and that it may cause issues later in life that will require surgery.



^ This ^


You can't possibly evaluate a settlement yourself without proper medical attention and assesment through the proper channels.

You simply aren't in possesion of the necessary facts and specialist knowlege to evaluate properly the extent of your injuries and what the costs over the short and long term future as a result of this - it's not a "consolation prize" - compensation is to fully compensate you for costs incurred and costs which are likely to be incurred


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## Simba (1 Sep 2011)

I got just under 4 grand for a broken collar bone after I was car doored. I recommend Alison France Solicitors they have a special cycle related department called bikeline, they are very good.


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## PJ79LIZARD (1 Sep 2011)

ClichéGuevara said:


> Are the Police considering legal action against the driver?



Not as far as I'm aware.


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## mr Mag00 (1 Sep 2011)

gws!


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## PJ79LIZARD (1 Sep 2011)

I've just got back from the hospital again, went back to a and e and got it looked at again and got my appointment brought forward to tomorrow morning to see the consultant, the pain level has dropped and I'm finding it more bearable.

Have to wait and see what's said tomorrow.

Think I'm going to go through the insurance, have to get the drivers details.

I just hope it heals ok, but reading others accounts I'm guessing it may never be right, the hospital said it was a common rugby injury. Just have to keep my fingers crossed. 

Thanks for your feedback and support, it's appreciated!


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## Mad at urage (1 Sep 2011)

Hang on: Clear visibility of approaching cyclist, driver admits fault for having driven into cyclist: Police are not looking to prosecute?

Is driving into a person (plus bike) who is clearly visible in front of you *NOT* falling far below the expected standard of driving of a reasonable and careful driver? Are we supposed to expect every 'reasonable and careful driver' out there *not* to pay attention to what is on the road in front of their vehicle?

Or is his apologising (he apologised, right?) somehow meant to make it all right? So if I go out and assault someone, now - it will be OK if I call an ambulance and apologise? 

This is just bl@@dy crazy! 

Oh and hope you do heal OK. 

Along with (almost) everyone else, my advice is to consult a (cycle-friendly and aware) solicitor because you are not in any position to make judgements about how much this will affect you at this time. They will have experience of the type of claim this may grow in to (it sounds like a very serious claim to me) and will take the hassle out of it for you.


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## fossyant (1 Sep 2011)

The police don't have the manpower to prosecute. Nothing happened with the driver that hit me.

Back to OP - good news in seeing a consultant tomorrow - explain that you are a keen cyclist...yadda..yadda etc.

I got fobbed off because I was still cycling (18 months after the accident). It eventually got through to them. Your injuries need fixing as soon as possible, and ideally you need an MRI scan as soon as so they can see the damage, then they will know how to treat it. I ended up having my spine MR'ed first (due to pain and tingling in arm) then it took another year to get the shoulder MRI'ed.

Good luck tomorrow, and push to get an MRI done.


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## benb (1 Sep 2011)

Once you've seen the consultant, I'd be tempted to send a letter to the Chief Constable and/or the IPCC.
But I expect you have other priorities right now.


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## gambatte (1 Sep 2011)

Just a quick BTW, I had a recent injury (nothing near as bad as yours!) ibuprofen wasn't touching it. I used diclofenac. Available over the counter. I know you can still use it with paracetamol, probably not contra-indicative with co-codamol either. Although I'd get the latter confirmed by a pharmacist.

All the best - physically and legally!


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## deckertim (1 Sep 2011)

fossyant said:


> The police don't have the manpower to prosecute. Nothing happened with the driver that hit me.



When I got knocked off my bike. The policeman at the scene said to the driver that this wouldn't be going any further. I went off at him and said that he couldn't say this and made it quite clear I thought his statement was unacceptable. The incident was then referred to some unit in the Met Police who look at the evidence and then make a decision. They have subsequently sent me a witness statement to fill in. 
I am sure that someone better qualified than me will be able to provide details, but if I was as seriously injured as the OP (GWS by the way ) I would be keeping the Police on their toes to make sure they are doing everything possible to investigate this with a view to prosecution. I am fairly sure that if a case was as clear cut as this, the threat of some negative publicity and consequent damage to the reputation of the Police for not prosecuting would be sufficient to make sure a prosecution took place. 

Some of you will remember the Bexley Road Rage Case, where the police originally said there was nothing they could do, then once the press got hold of it they started to investigate properly.


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## CopperCyclist (1 Sep 2011)

PJ79LIZARD said:


> Not as far as I'm aware.



If its what you want, chase that one up. In the circumstances you gave, as others pointed out, they have plenty of evidence to do so. And as for 'not having enough manpower', this is a one man job. I'm a response officer, fitting in what enquires I have in between all the emergency calls (and I get a fair few of those as I'm one of he few on our shift carrying Taser) and even I would have time to do this. Yes, it takes time, but its not in any way unacheivable.

1. Statement you
2. Account from the driver, probably a voluntary interview under caution
3. Statement any witnesses
4. Complete a short file to suggest a prosecution.

There are other stuff that could be needed at a later date if the drivers decides to go not guilty (e.g. medical reports, photos of damage to your bike) but that could wait, as its not necessary if he pleads guilty.

If an officer has been 'lazy' and written this off as 'not in the public interest to prosecute', then hes done so by saying ou weren't badly injured. Call up, tell them your full injuries, ask for them to be put on the log and get a log number.

Even if you don't wish to prosecute the driver, I'd be asking for the police to record some acion - e.g. a letter of caution - in case he driver decides to deny liability in a later civil case.

My personal choice on this one would be to suggest to you that I could offer the driver a chance to take a driver improvement course. This would involve him admitting he offence and I think hey are quite beneficial. He has to pay for he course too. I would only offer him his with your permission though.


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## CopperCyclist (1 Sep 2011)

deckertim said:


> When I got knocked off my bike. The policeman at the scene said to the driver that this wouldn't be going any further. I went off at him and said that he couldn't say this and made it quite clear I thought his statement was unacceptable. The incident was then referred to some unit in the Met Police who look at the evidence and then make a decision. They have subsequently sent me a witness statement to fill in.
> 
> ...
> 
> Some of you will remember the Bexley Road Rage Case, where the police originally said there was nothing they could do, then once the press got hold of it they started to investigate properly.



With the cost cutting (and to some degree even before this) Traffic Officers started to dissapear. My personal opinion is that they did so because the powers that be figured they were the least like by normal members of the public, as most of the offenders they dealt with were traffic offenders rather than die-hard criminals. (to any traffic officers reading, please note I am saying this was the perception not the truth!). The fall out from this is that if you have an accident, you are likely to get an officer turn up at the scene who has no interest in traffic and no experience in dealing with it.

Heres whats true for my force; there are four classes of RTC (Road Traffic Collision)
1. Fatal - i.e. a death has occurred.
2. Serious - wide ranging definition from life changing injuries down to any broken bone, i.e. even a broken finger.
3. Slight - any injury not falling into the 'serious' category. Shock is included.
4. Non injury.

If its a fatal, Traffic are coming out and it WILL be dealt with properly. For serious, we try to get Traffic, but can't guarantee it. For slight and non-injury, you get your bog standard bobby.

Heres the point I need to make - for 'Non injury' we can write these off ourselves, at the scene, with no need to even complete a report (as long as the RTA is complied with, i.e. insurance held etc). If you have a serious/slight, you should complete a report which will be supervised before its written off.

If you are injured at the scene, make sure you tell the officer this. Get a log number. Ring up later on the same day and 'update' your injuries on the log. Don't let an officer write it off as 'non-injury' if its not.


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## Alien8 (1 Sep 2011)

Same thing (oncoming motorist decides to turn right just as we're about to pass and I end up going over his bonnet) happened to me about three years ago. The police told me that they gave the driver the option of prosecution or a retraining course at his expense. He opted for the course at about £200 if I remember rightly.


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## Vikeonabike (1 Sep 2011)

CopperCyclist said:


> If its what you want, chase that one up. In the circumstances you gave, as others pointed out, they have plenty of evidence to do so. And as for 'not having enough manpower', this is a one man job. I'm a response officer, fitting in what enquires I have in between all the emergency calls (and I get a fair few of those as I'm one of he few on our shift carrying Taser) and even I would have time to do this. Yes, it takes time, but its not in any way unacheivable.
> 
> 1. Statement you
> 2. Account from the driver, probably a voluntary interview under caution
> ...



Following on from what my esteemed colleague has said. This is a one man job, I've put a dangerous driving file together in 4 hours. Spread out over 3 days, it takes very little effort. So that is no excuse.

Unfortunately for cyclist if a motorist makes a mistake the consequences can be catastrophic compared to that of a car on car collision. I would certainly at the very least pushing the OIC to offer the driver an improvement course. If he refuses to admit liability then at the very least he needs to be summonsed for Due Care.

Hope you're back on two wheels again soon.


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## Matthew_T (1 Sep 2011)

Even if you are not involved in a collision with a motorist, you can claim compensation. I recently came off my bike because I went around a corner too fast. I was in hospital for 4 days and had to have an operation on my knee. 

My dad (because I am 17) said that he could claim on the days that I was in hospital for, as he works in the RBS. He told me today that I need to fill in an incident report and attach the online video of it, so that the bank have evidence. I will only probably get £100 but something is better than nothing, and it can go towards fixing the damage to my bike. 

You need to push this as far as possible, the police often need a little bit of a kick to get them to do anything, but it will pay off.


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## biking_fox (1 Sep 2011)

> I got just under 4 grand for a broken collar bone after I was car doored. I recommend Alison France Solicitors they have a special cycle related department called bikeline, they are very good.



Mine was very similar to this - and I also recommened Alison France. (no win no fee)

Get in touch with the Police again, definately. Mention your injuries. I had to do this in person at the station within 24hrs of the accident! But you had coppers on the scence, so maybe have more leaway.

Leave all the rest to the solicitors. No way you want to deal with their insurerance/driver. No way at all. Fill in online form with solicitor. They'll phone/email you, give more details..... wait. When you're "better" you get final docs exam to evaluate extent of damage. Only then do you get money., but may arrange interim payment for bike repairs and expenses. 

Things to do:
Write down NOW where you where, conditions, etc. 
Photos if you can get them, of you, bike, road junction extra
Keep a log of your injuries how you felt what you can and could not do - sleep disturbance, hobbies, everything and anything that is different from your normal life.
Keep all your receipts - any taxi or bus journey you made that you'd normally have cycled, shopping delivery charges etc etc. 

You'll need ot detail all this for the solicitors months down the line, and exact memories are really difficult by then.


Hope you get well soon, simply and quickly!


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## Matthew_T (1 Sep 2011)

biking_fox said:


> Mine was very similar to this - and I also recommened Alison France. (no win no fee)
> 
> Get in touch with the Police again, definately. Mention your injuries. I had to do this in person at the station within 24hrs of the accident! But you had coppers on the scence, so maybe have more leaway.
> 
> ...



That was very good advice mate. 

Yes you need to detail everything down before you forget about it.


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## PJ79LIZARD (1 Sep 2011)

The police at the scene took my details and the drivers, they breathalysed him, the police then came to the hospital, took a statement from me. Said he'd admitted it was his fault and that he was sorry, passed my number to him. The one policeman said he'd been cycling to work the last 6 months and was waiting for his first accident lol. They said they would call me today to see how I was. Haven't heard anything yet.

They gave me a log number for the incident, I have it wrote down.


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## Matthew_T (1 Sep 2011)

PJ79LIZARD said:


> The police at the scene took my details and the drivers, they breathalysed him, the police then came to the hospital, took a statement from me. Said he'd admitted it was his fault and that he was sorry, passed my number to him. The one policeman said he'd been cycling to work the last 6 months and was waiting for his first accident lol. They said they would call me today to see how I was. Haven't heard anything yet.



Dont expect them to call. I hate people who are like that...


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## 400bhp (1 Sep 2011)

Matthew_T said:


> My dad (because I am 17) said that he could claim on the days that I was in hospital for, as he works in the RBS. He told me today that I need to fill in an incident report and attach the online video of it, so that the bank have evidence. I will only probably get £100 but something is better than nothing, and it can go towards fixing the damage to my bike.



What is your dad claiming for exactly?


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## Vikeonabike (1 Sep 2011)

PJ79..you could use the following...helps remember if nothing else...almost a fill in the blanks proforma.



Statement Template....if you wish to use it. May save plod some time!


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## Arch (1 Sep 2011)

400bhp said:


> What is your dad claiming for exactly?



Having a 17 year old son who can't judge a corner?

I have to say, I'm not sure what the 'case' is here....

To the OP, I can;t add any practical advice, just Get Well Soon, and I hope it turns out to be less trouble than it bodes.


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## Matthew_T (1 Sep 2011)

400bhp said:


> What is your dad claiming for exactly?



The money he wasted travelling to the hospital


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## Msmancunia (1 Sep 2011)

400bhp said:


> What is your dad claiming for exactly?



It's possible that Matthew's Dad has private healthcare through work that covers his children (or might have it through his bank account; Barclays used to offer it with some accounts too). If you have a stay in hospital as an A&E case, you can usually claim (I think) £25 per each overnight stay.


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## Arch (1 Sep 2011)

Matthew_T said:


> The money he wasted travelling to the hospital



Blimey. That's a bit mercenary. I better bill my other half for the weekend I had to get a train over to see him in hospital instead of him driving here.

'Wasted'? Does he value you that little?


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## Matthew_T (1 Sep 2011)

Arch said:


> Having a 17 year old son who can't judge a corner?
> 
> I have to say, I'm not sure what the 'case' is here....



I would have made it if it was dry. There must have been some minor oil on the road or something.


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## Matthew_T (1 Sep 2011)

Arch said:


> Blimey. That's a bit mercenary. I better bill my other half for the weekend I had to get a train over to see him in hospital instead of him driving here.
> 
> 'Wasted'? Does he value you that little?



Probably


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## 2Loose (1 Sep 2011)

Ow Ow Ow, all good advice here, hope you heal better than this thread makes me suspect you will


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## mumbo jumbo (1 Sep 2011)

Really sorry to hear about your accident. I can't add to the advice above. Just get well soon. Look forward to seeing you again on a South Bham ride someday.

mj


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## PJ79LIZARD (1 Sep 2011)

Just recieved earlier today my magic shine MJ 808 and MJ 818 rear lights and my front light lens is shattered! The day gets better...........


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## 400bhp (1 Sep 2011)

Matthew_T said:


> The money he wasted travelling to the hospital



How has he wasted money?


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## Matthew_T (1 Sep 2011)

400bhp said:


> How has he wasted money?



Fuel, food, things for me while I was in hospital.


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## postman (1 Sep 2011)

Just best wishes from me also.But find a solicitor.All the best.I have been with the CTC for longer than i care to remember,but one day i might just need them.


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## Scilly Suffolk (1 Sep 2011)

Red Light said:


> I'm going to advise differently from the others. Get good advice on what your damages should be (bike, injury, pain, time off work etc) and put it to him. He may well settle straight off if you have a good case put together for how much it is. If it goes to the insurance company you could spend ages fighting them for compensation and them trying all the tricks in their book to reduce it. You will get there in the end with determination, lots of time and patience and professional advice but you could have it all sorted in a few weeks doing it direct.



Firstly, commiserations and best wishes for a speedy recovery.

Secondly, I must disagree with Red Light (with all due respect) in the strongest possible terms.

If you come to an informal agreement with the driver, there is nothing to stop them reneging on the agreement; you will then have to pursue damages through the insurer (or if they are uninsured, the Motorists' Insurers Bureau) and the agreement you have made will prejudice any negotiations with them.

You need representation, this is not a straight-forward case; it involves both General and Special Damages and you may have long-term medical complications. If you don't have specific cycling insurance through, for example the Cyclists Touring Club, check any Household insurances you may hold, they often include Legal Expenses cover.

Failing which, engage a Solicitor with specific experience in this area: check the back of cycling magazines where you will find adverts from such practices.

A quick resolution is unlikely to be a good one (for you) in these circumstances!


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## The Horse's Mouth (1 Sep 2011)

PJ79LIZARD I have written a personal message to you, i hope u find it useful

This is what i would recommend anyone having an accident does to claim compensation. I give this advice as a commuter cyclist who has worked for numerous insurance companies dealing with personal injury claims for 25 years. 

1. get a good solicitor. Not necessary but even i went to a lawyer when i went down a pot hole last year and claimed against the council. Even though i knew how much my claim was worth. 
2. get receipts for everything. you can claim for any expense that you wouldnt have incurred if the accident hadnt occurred. 
3. get medical evidence. make sure everything is documented.
4. keep wage slips for at least 13 weeks pre accident, to prove your earnings b4 the accident.
5. keep wage slips during any period of absence. 
6. photos are great. take pics of the car that hit you, the pot hole you hit (with something next to it to give it scale if you dont have a ruler). your damaged bike. damaged clothing. keep the bits that are damaged too. If you have receipts find them and take photocopies. 
7. Basically evidence is everything. If you can prove the loss then the insurance company cant argue it. 
8. For what its worth insurance claims handler are not ogres. Their job is to compensate genuine claimants for their losses. I dont sit there trying to get out of paying claims and trying to stitch up claimants.
9. If you are dealing with the claim yourself and you get an offer, check to see if it adequate. Most lawyers and judges refer to the JSB guidelines. 
10 Be patient. These things can take time especially if you have ongoing medical injuries. My claim took 18months from accident to receiving my compensation. I was only claiming for a broken little finger. 

What not to do.

1. do not accept any offers until you have totally recovered from the accident (unless advised different by a solicitor)
2. dont exaggerate your claim too much. Dont get greedy. Insurance companies have so much at there disposal now. not just surveillance.
3. dont just go to any solicitor. Make sure they are experienced in personal injury. 

Hope this is helpful. Im sure ive missed loads but personally getting a good lawyer will always be my first advice.


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## PJ79LIZARD (1 Sep 2011)

Thanks for that.


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## 400bhp (1 Sep 2011)

Matthew_T said:


> Fuel, food, things for me while I was in hospital.



£100 worth?


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## davehann (1 Sep 2011)

unless the driver is offering in excess of one thousand pounds i would definately call his insurers.

i had a similar incident two years ago , ended up on the roof of the car, but and not significantly injured at all. 
the car drivers insurance compant where very quick to offer me £1200 to settle.

i accepted and had banked the check whithin a week of the incident.

i got my new bike the next week ;-)


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## Red Light (1 Sep 2011)

[quote name='The Horse's Mouth' timestamp='1314910721' post='1822620']


7. Basically evidence is everything. If you can prove the loss then the insurance company cant argue it. 

8. For what its worth insurance claims handler are not ogres. Their job is to compensate genuine claimants for their losses. I dont sit there trying to get out of paying claims and trying to stitch up claimants.
[/quote]

Not my experience. The insurance company (or rather their lawyers) argued everything. Even though the police had taken statements from witnesses that confirmed the driver's fault I had to go to the ABI to get them to comply with the industry code ( they would not answer letters at all or take months to answer) and eventually had to take them to Court. They finally settled in full the day before the Court hearing.

To clarify what I said above that people seem to have taken exception to, I am not suggesting the OP settle for any less or not have their situation properly evaluated and the costs calculated. But in law the liability is the drivers and they are the person you are claiming off. The purpose of the insurance company is to stand behind the driver and underwrite the costs of any settlement. Your first point of contact has to therefore be the driver unless and until the insurance company take over the case management. In my case, even though the insurance company was handling everything it was still the driver I had to take to Court, not the insurance company.

If its as serious as some have indicated then its very likely the driver will take one look at the potential cost and run straight to their insurance company but if not you probably have a settlement in a few weeks versus what, in every case I've known, turns out to be a long hard battle taking often years and during which you are out of pocket until (if) the settlement comes in. And if its a big claim you can bet they will try every wriggle in the book to reduce it from contributory negligence (you didn't slow down when you saw them waiting to turn) to the injuries were exaggerated and you really didn't need to stay off work that long etc. And you will face the problem of whether to accept the low offer they have pitched or risk going to Court to try for something higher.

In my case it was open and shut as the police had taken witness statements which confirmed the drivers fault. It still took me a year's hard and frustrating slog and close to a Court case to get the settlement thanks to the actions of the insurance company (Nissan Insurance) and their lawyers (who even phoned me up at one point to tell me I was going to lose and they would be claiming costs to the max off me in an attempt to scare me off). Fortunately I had the legal confidence to shrug it off and tell them I'd see them in Court anyway but a lot of people wouldn't. During that year I had to carry the costs of getting the bike fixed and the legal processes (I was not really injured, just damage to the bike so no chance of a no win no fee lawyer) to say nothing of the hours I spent on the process.


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## Wobblers (1 Sep 2011)

Oh no! Sorry to hear about this, PJ.

Gaz and Fossyant have the right idea. You need a good solicitor to handle all the legal stuff: If you're a member of the CTC or BC, go through their legal help line. If not, go to someone like Russell, Jones and Walker: they're the CTC solicitors and have a good track record of this sort of thing. 

You may need to badger the hospital/doctor/consultant to get the right treatment. Don't accept getting fobbed off with a "it'll get better on its own". Ask lots of questions and don't be afraid to insist on getting physio - by the sounds of it, you'll need it.

Having said that, I do hope you make a swift recovery and are back on the bike soon!




PJ79LIZARD said:


> I've just got back from the hospital again, went back to a and e and got it looked at again and got my appointment brought forward to tomorrow morning to see the consultant, the pain level has dropped and I'm finding it more bearable.
> 
> Have to wait and see what's said tomorrow.



That sounds better. Hopefully you'll have better news tomorrow.


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## thehairycycler (2 Sep 2011)

Sorry to hear about your accident! 

one thing to keep in mind is loss of earnings includes overtime you have missed out on due to being off your work. A freind of mine got knocked down just before he was due to get a few shifts overtime he got all that in his claim he didn't expect to get the O/T but his soliciter told him this was all claimable


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## Crankarm (2 Sep 2011)

PJ79LIZARD said:


> I've just got back from the hospital again, went back to a and e and got it looked at again and got my appointment brought forward to tomorrow morning to see the consultant, the pain level has dropped and I'm finding it more bearable.
> 
> Have to wait and see what's said tomorrow.
> 
> ...



Sorry to read that you have been felled by what seems quite a nasty collision caused by yet another numptee moton. It sounds as if you were lucky not to have been killed. 

I direct you to Gaz's most sensible and informed post. If you don't seek legal advice as he urges you to and then instruct a personal injury solicitor, preferably a cycling specific one, then you need to go back to A&E to have your head examined for concussion. You would have to be mad to settle with this numptee moton on an informal basis.

Just want to clear up some other points. What the plods do is irrelevant to your civil claim against this plank of a moton. The police act for the State to prosecute where criminal offences have occurred. Were there any witnesses? I am surprised though that the plods have not yet indicated to you a likely course of action. I would have thought that the moton would at the very minimum be sent on a driver awareness course but given how blatantly negligent his driving was why he isn't being prosecuted. I would want to know why if not, and if not, a letter to the IPCC would be on it's way.

Regarding whether the moton is insured - the police should have checked this and whether any insurance offered by the moton was valid. If not they should be prosecuting the moton for driving without insurance. This doesn't affect your civil claim as it is merely redirected to the MIB, but you will still need a solicitor. The police will NOT give the details of the drivers insurers despite the fact that they are required to. They will tell you you need to write in, which you do, but then they ignore you and finally they tell you they can't give the details because of data protection because they are ignorant simpletons. The only way you can get the insurance details from the driver is by instructing a solicitor which you are going to do anyway, who plod will levy a fee!!! So nothing whatsoever to do with data protection they just want to raise cash . %^4H"s!

The other thing you need to do is visit your GP asap who can be instrumental in getting the wheels of the NHS turning and treatments for you which you may need sooner than later before your body starts to heal when perhaps such treatment will have a much reduced effect. Plus your GP should document all your injuries.

Your claim against the moton may well reach a signficant amount when all heads are taken into account. There is no way most people can pay this type of sum that is why there is insurance. Incidentally the moton SHOULD have informed his insurers of the collision and that a claim is likely to result given that they were at fault. It is a term of insurance that you inform your insurer of incidents or material facts that would affect your policy whether a claim is made or not.

When you are choosing a solicitor speak to a few, they all have their own speel. Go with the one you feel most comfortable with. It doesn't have to be immediately but I would suggest as soon as you can although you do have 3 years before you are out of time.

As everyone else suggests keep a diary, take pics and also DO NOT do anything strenuous too quickly. A full recovery is your primary focus.

If you are worried about immediate loss of earnings, paying bills, mortgage, etc., cost of private treatment a solicitor should be able to obtain interim payments from the insurer. They will also arrange for you to be assessed by a specialist or consultant for the purposed of your claim. Then there may be traumatic symptoms. There is a lot to take into account. Personal injury claims can take a long time as prognosis may be unclear and injuries can take a long time to heal.

CTC use Russell Jones Walker, LCC use Levens, not sure who BC use. You do not have to be a member of these cycling organisations to instruct the solicitors who they have arrangements with as they will still take you on a conditional fee agreement. There is also Alyson France who are currently handing my claim.

Good luck and GWS.

Btw the MagicShine is the least of your worries. Crap lights anyway. The slightest bit of damp and they pack up. When your claim is resolved you'll be able to buy two Exposure Max D Mk4s  .


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## BentMikey (2 Sep 2011)

Red Light said:


> Not my experience. The insurance company (or rather their lawyers) argued everything. Even though the police had taken statements from witnesses that confirmed the driver's fault I had to go to the ABI to get them to comply with the industry code ( they would not answer letters at all or take months to answer) and eventually had to take them to Court. They finally settled in full the day before the Court hearing.



This is normal, and a year to settle is fairly quick. PJ's claim won't be that quick as the details on his injury will take much longer to be resolved, I should think. It's the insurance companies' duty to try to minimise their loss, so of course they're going to fight it as hard as they can. The only time they'll press for a quick settlement is if they think they can get out of a personal injury claim by paying up quickly and settling early (and some disreputable companies do hound collision victims, so be aware of this one). If you didn't have insurance and lawyers, I'm betting you'd have lost some amount of compensation and the brinksmanship game you've described.

PJ, the general advice from others is sound - go to a solicitor, because if you don't, there's a much higher likelihood that you'll be screwed over by the driver's insurance company.


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## Red Light (2 Sep 2011)

Crankarm said:


> What the plods do is irrelevant to your civil claim against this plank of a moton. The police act for the State to prosecute where criminal offences have occurred.



Correct. My mother's car was hit when a lorry pulled out into the side of her to overtake another lorry on a dual carriageway. The driver was found guilty of careless driving but the civil injuries case had to reprove the fault all over again rather than starting from the guilty finding despite the civil standards of proof being less than the criminal.



> The police will NOT give the details of the drivers insurers despite the fact that they are required to. They will tell you you need to write in, which you do, but then they ignore you and finally they tell you they can't give the details because of data protection because they are ignorant simpletons.



In my case, even though it was minor, the police phoned me up out of the blue after a couple of weeks to a) check I was OK, b) tell me they had interviewed the driver and taken witness statements and c) give me the details of her insurance company. Which was good because the driver had been ignoring letters asking for the details. The witness statements were freely provided when I asked for them and the only thing they would not provide was the statement taken from the driver.


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## Red Light (2 Sep 2011)

BentMikey said:


> If you didn't have insurance and lawyers, I'm betting you'd have lost some amount of compensation and the brinksmanship game you've described.



I didn't - they settled in full the day before the Court hearing. But then I had a barrister working for me at the time and have spent a fair amount of time in Court cases myself so was quite familiar with how it all works. 

By the way one thing to be very cautious of if going down the full legal route. If your claim is for less than £5k and the personal injury component less than £1k they can apply to have the case transferred to the Small Claims track whereupon your costs of solicitors etc become generally non-recoverable. So don't wrack up too many costs in expectation until you know you are out of the Small Claims option.


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## The Horse's Mouth (2 Sep 2011)

Red Light said:


> Not my experience. The insurance company (or rather their lawyers) argued everything. Even though the police had taken statements from witnesses that confirmed the driver's fault I had to go to the ABI to get them to comply with the industry code ( they would not answer letters at all or take months to answer) and eventually had to take them to Court. They finally settled in full the day before the Court hearing.
> 
> To clarify what I said above that people seem to have taken exception to, I am not suggesting the OP settle for any less or not have their situation properly evaluated and the costs calculated. But in law the liability is the drivers and they are the person you are claiming off. The purpose of the insurance company is to stand behind the driver and underwrite the costs of any settlement. Your first point of contact has to therefore be the driver unless and until the insurance company take over the case management. In my case, even though the insurance company was handling everything it was still the driver I had to take to Court, not the insurance company.
> 
> ...



I cant comment on this all i can say is what i would do as an insurance claims handler. It is always cheaper to settle claims early. Once i know my driver is liable i will attempt to get the matter settled as quickly as possible.
Yes i would argue contrib Negligence if i can prove it but no point if i cant. A lot depends on how much is involved. To be honest any claim below £5000 isnt really worth doing too much arguing over. Although everything is subject to a bit of negotiating. If they waited to go to the doors of the court to settle then they have cost themselves money what is the sense in that. Very few matters now go to court. 20 years ago it was different. Now i hardly ever see the inside of a court room. 

I will say that you are right about the court proceedings being against the driver not the insurance company.


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## Matthew_T (2 Sep 2011)

400bhp said:


> £100 worth?



Maybe a little more. 

But if it is money we can get back, then dont complain!


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## Wankelschrauben (2 Sep 2011)

Matthew_T said:


> Even if you are not involved in a collision with a motorist, you can claim compensation. I recently came off my bike because I went around a corner too fast. I was in hospital for 4 days and had to have an operation on my knee.
> 
> My dad (because I am 17) said that he could claim on the days that I was in hospital for, as he works in the RBS. He told me today that I need to fill in an incident report and attach the online video of it, so that the bank have evidence. I will only probably get £100 but something is better than nothing, and it can go towards fixing the damage to my bike.
> 
> You need to push this as far as possible, the police often need a little bit of a kick to get them to do anything, but it will pay off.



Was the road in anyway at fault for you accident?

If the road itself is in good state then I doubt you have any case by which you can claim, your father may want to be re-imbursed his costs but in order to do so there must be a party to blame.

In this case the council must be, within reason, responsible for the upkeep of the road, they are not responsible for a misjudgement on your part of the road conditions at hand.


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## Wankelschrauben (2 Sep 2011)

By misjudgement of road conditions, I mean factors such as your speed and the weather.


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## fossyant (2 Sep 2011)

Back to the topic, how are you today PJ ? Any further news from the medical profession?


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## nilling (2 Sep 2011)

Almost same thing happened to me a year ago to the month, except I clipped their back wing and went over the rear of the car landing head first. Nothing broken but still hurt. My bike was a write-off. Managed to get up and get plenty of witnesses details. Police turned up whilst I was in the ambulance; two vans and a dog unit! Copper came in asked if I was ok and had the driver's details. Then he muttered something about it being an 'insurance job' before disappearing. 

Not sure if anyone has mentioned keeping a *daily journal*? Not only for recording details of the crash, GP visits, medical expenses etc. but how _your_ life has changed as a result of this crash. The things to cannot do because it's painful or you have had to cancel. It's not just about the time off work. Also try and take photos of the damage to yourself and your bike. Believe me in a couple of weeks or months you'll forget about the pain and the nights of no sleep  as your mind will just want to 'blank' it all out!

I went the solicitor route and 12 months, on after numerous visits to various doctors, trips to a private physio, an engineer assessing damage to my bike (I had to point out the huge crease in the frame




) and the driver's insurance company dragging their heels, they secured a final settlement of £5.5K.

Try and get your brief to go for an interim payment to cover the replacement cost of your bike, kit and clothing. The medical side will take a good deal longer.

Hope this helps!


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## PJ79LIZARD (2 Sep 2011)

fossyant said:


> Back to the topic, how are you today PJ ? Any further news from the medical profession?



Saw the consultant this morning, said it should heal on it's own without intervention, will be left with a lump on my shoulder. Wasn't so sure with this, didn't ct scan my shoulder, he said from the size of the lump he could tell it was a type 3 a/c joint separation. Scar tissue will form reconnecting the ligaments and collar bone. I asked about an operation, but he said they couldn't do one now anyway cause of the cuts on my back which would risk infection.

Got to go back in two weeks to see how it's healing and to discuss operating if that's what i want. Spoke to the driver, the police are prosecuting him for driving without due care and attention, that will be dependent on the cps.

I've wrote his vehicle off apparently, and I'm waiting to hear from his insurers, there probably going to offer a settlement because he admitted liability.

I shall wait and see what they have to say first, then probably get my own pi solicitor involved.


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## fossyant (2 Sep 2011)

PJ79LIZARD said:


> I've wrote his vehicle off apparently, and I'm waiting to hear from his insurers, there probably going to offer a settlement because he admitted liability.



Nice one - wrote it off cool.  

Take no notice of a settlement offer. Your shoulder will take time to heal. I was right with a type 3 separation - nasty.

See how it goes, sounds like the consultant is OK - at least you are through the hard bit and getting to see a shoulder consultant.


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## 400bhp (2 Sep 2011)

Hopefully things are looking up.


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## BrumJim (2 Sep 2011)

PJ79LIZARD said:


> Saw the consultant this morning, said it should heal on it's own without intervention, will be left with a lump on my shoulder. Wasn't so sure with this, didn't ct scan my shoulder, he said from the size of the lump he could tell it was a type 3 a/c joint separation. Scar tissue will form reconnecting the ligaments and collar bone. I asked about an operation, but he said they couldn't do one now anyway cause of the cuts on my back which would risk infection.
> 
> Got to go back in two weeks to see how it's healing and to discuss operating if that's what i want. Spoke to the driver, the police are prosecuting him for driving without due care and attention, that will be dependent on the cps.
> 
> ...



Can you encourage a referal to the Royal Orthapedic Hospital, Bristol Road?


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## PJ79LIZARD (2 Sep 2011)

Maybe, that's an option I could look into. On the plus side got my replacement lens for my magicshine and fitted it. Just need to heal so I can try them out on a night ride. I'm going to miss cycling, but at least I'll be able to get back on the bike again, it could of been worse though on reflection I'm feeling quite lucky I'm still here. 

I'm thinking of setting my turbo trainer up so I can have a gentle ride on it, maybe try that in a weeks time if I'm feeling upto it.


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## The Horse's Mouth (2 Sep 2011)

PJ good to hear it isnt too bad. Just take your time and dont push yourself too hard. Getting better is more important then cycling. Give the bloke i suggested a call. He is very good!


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## Red Light (2 Sep 2011)

PJ79LIZARD said:


> I'm thinking of setting my turbo trainer up so I can have a gentle ride on it, maybe try that in a weeks time if I'm feeling upto it.



You must be really really bored to be contemplating that


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## Red Light (2 Sep 2011)

[quote name='The Horse's Mouth' timestamp='1314951722' post='1822954']
I cant comment on this all i can say is what i would do as an insurance claims handler. It is always cheaper to settle claims early. Once i know my driver is liable i will attempt to get the matter settled as quickly as possible.
Yes i would argue contrib Negligence if i can prove it but no point if i cant. A lot depends on how much is involved. To be honest any claim below £5000 isnt really worth doing too much arguing over. Although everything is subject to a bit of negotiating. If they waited to go to the doors of the court to settle then they have cost themselves money what is the sense in that. Very few matters now go to court. 20 years ago it was different. Now i hardly ever see the inside of a court room. 

I will say that you are right about the court proceedings being against the driver not the insurance company.
[/quote]

My two pleasure out of it was putting it into the Small Claims Track so they had to swallow all their legal and other costs which must have come to many many times what I had been claiming and when they threatened to stick me with all their costs to try to get me to drop the case, asking the lawyer how long they had been in practice and then saying "That long and you still don't know how costs are handled in the Small Claims track? See you in Court" The insurance company was Nissan Insurance - the insurance offered when you purchase a Nissan car from a dealer and their lawyers were a national award winning firm from Manchester. So its not just the cheap and dirty insurers who play hardball and I have to say anecdotally what you are describing is very rare indeed.


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## Origamist (2 Sep 2011)

Red Light said:


> You must be really really bored to be contemplating that



You can always liven things up by guaging your level of effort by catching the sweat and pouring it into a measuring jug: 1 litre is a pretty intensive work out...

I hope you make a full recovery and keep the thread updated, PJ.


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## fossyant (2 Sep 2011)

Red Light said:


> You must be really really bored to be contemplating that



Heh heh. PS It's hard work climbing on a bike on a turbo with one hand/arm


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## PJ79LIZARD (2 Sep 2011)

fossyant said:


> Nice one - wrote it off cool.
> 
> Take no notice of a settlement offer. Your shoulder will take time to heal. I was right with a type 3 separation - nasty.
> 
> See how it goes, sounds like the consultant is OK - at least you are through the hard bit and getting to see a shoulder consultant.



The vehicle was old, I dented the wing, damaged the mirror, cracked the window screen, dented the roof quite bad, and scratches down the side. My 15 stone lump must of put a decent dent in the roof. The cost of repairs was obviously more than the car, but you can still buy them back from the insurance and drive them. Realistically once the window screen is repaired and mirror I don't see why it couldn't Stil be used.

I need to assess the damage on my bike, have to wait for my better half to finish work to help me. Amazingly my biologic iPhone case and phone were intact, an onlooker got my phone out so I could call my mrs roadside. The conversation was a bit vague, had blurred vision and was sweating like a pig. I was that sweaty they couldn't get those sticky patches to stick to my skin, which they hook upto heartrate and blood pressure monitor. In the end they taped them on lol.


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## skudupnorth (2 Sep 2011)

Sounds like a proper prang,hope you get well soon.I used Alison France when i had a hit and run and they were brilliant !


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## CopperCyclist (2 Sep 2011)

Crankarm said:


> The police will NOT give the details of the drivers insurers despite the fact that they are required to. They will tell you you need to write in, which you do, but then they ignore you and finally they tell you they can't give the details because of data protection because they are ignorant simpletons. The only way you can get the insurance details from the driver is by instructing a solicitor which you are going to do anyway, who plod will levy a fee!!! So nothing whatsoever to do with data protection they just want to raise cash . %^4H"s!



You've dealt with some police that have it completely wrong. If its an INJURY RTC (and see my earlier post about how some lazy police may try to file it as a non-injury) then the Road Traffic Act is clear - the car driver needs to provide you with his name and address, the name and address of the registered keeper, and his insurance details. Its a requirement by law, so we can and will (or should) facilitate this exchange.

If its non-injury, theres no legal requirement to swop insurance details, so in that case you may it the 'data protection' wall.

If you have a police officer say otherwise, complain.


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## wintonbina (2 Sep 2011)

With regards to the pain ( i was involved in an accident where I as good as severed 2 fingers, I had micro surgery at Odstock to repair) when I was discharged the next day my consultant told me to drink a good brandy or in my case a good malt!!! 

It worked for me  so good luck in your rehab and I agree with the majority 'Get a Lawyer'
Cheers,

Tony


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## Wobblers (2 Sep 2011)

PJ, glad to see you're getting to see a consultant. With any luck, they help you onto a speedy recovery. I wouldn't worry about getting back on the bike just yet - get yourself sorted first! The roads will still be there when you've healed! And I'm sure we can get some sort of bike (night?) ride arranged to celebrate the fact! There's a few pubs over Clent way that look good....


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## gaz (2 Sep 2011)

fossyant said:


> Heh heh. PS It's hard work climbing on a bike on a turbo with one hand/arm



I use books to help


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## Red Light (2 Sep 2011)

gaz said:


> I use books to help



They have books on how to get on a bike?


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## Matthew_T (2 Sep 2011)

Wankelschrauben said:


> By misjudgement of road conditions, I mean factors such as your speed and the weather.



Well the road was very rough (should have given me more grip probably), and it might have been oily but I dont think there is any room for complaint on that part.


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## Matthew_T (2 Sep 2011)

PJ79LIZARD said:


> I've wrote his vehicle off apparently, and I'm waiting to hear from his insurers, there probably going to offer a settlement because he admitted liability.



Whoa, Whoa, Whoa...slow down...

Wrote his car off? You must have been going about 150mph with that remark. How can a bicycle right a car off? By the sounds of it, he purely cannot afford to pay for the vehicle to be fixed (even if it is a bump). 

I would have shouted to the high heavens at this. 

What an utter idiot.


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## The Horse's Mouth (2 Sep 2011)

Red Light said:


> My two pleasure out of it was putting it into the Small Claims Track so they had to swallow all their legal and other costs which must have come to many many times what I had been claiming and when they threatened to stick me with all their costs to try to get me to drop the case, asking the lawyer how long they had been in practice and then saying "That long and you still don't know how costs are handled in the Small Claims track? See you in Court" The insurance company was Nissan Insurance - the insurance offered when you purchase a Nissan car from a dealer and their lawyers were a national award winning firm from Manchester. So its not just the cheap and dirty insurers who play hardball and I have to say anecdotally what you are describing is very rare indeed.



I work for a Lloyds underwriter maybe we are just better. Out of interest who were these award winning lawyers, message me if you like? Unfortunately if your claim was in the small claims court i assume it was fairly small in size. A lot of motor insurers unfortunately pay peanuts and hence you get monkeys. I know a lot of firms who employ kids who dont know one end of a claim from another to do the smaller stuff. In my own experience if your claim was cut and dry as u say i would be coming down on any claims handler who ended up settling this on the day before trial. Also out of interest did they make any offers prior to that date.


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## gambatte (2 Sep 2011)

Matthew_T said:


> Wrote his car off? You must have been going about 150mph with that remark. How can a bicycle right a car off?



He said it was an old car, you can pick a decent one up for a grand, if you know how to look. If they can see a similar example in the small adds for £500, thats the benchmark they'll use.

_*"I dented the wing, damaged the mirror, cracked the window screen, dented the roof quite bad, and scratches down the side."*_

Now repairs... you and I have the option of going to a scrappers etc. Insurers don't tend to do that. They have to guarantee their repairs, parts and labour for 3 years. So they use new parts.

Windscreen needs replacing £200?
Wing mirror replacement and refit?
Looks like a fair bit of bodywork?

They'll not let the repairs get to the level of the 'value' of the car. If it gets close its a financial not mechanical write off. They're in the risk business. They'll not risk paying out £900 for guaranteed repairs to a £1000 vehicle.

Doesn't take much to write off an older car.


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## Red Light (2 Sep 2011)

[quote name='The Horse's Mouth' timestamp='1314989369' post='1823990']
I work for a Lloyds underwriter maybe we are just better. Out of interest who were these award winning lawyers, message me if you like? Unfortunately if your claim was in the small claims court i assume it was fairly small in size. A lot of motor insurers unfortunately pay peanuts and hence you get monkeys. I know a lot of firms who employ kids who dont know one end of a claim from another to do the smaller stuff. In my own experience if your claim was cut and dry as u say i would be coming down on any claims handler who ended up settling this on the day before trial. Also out of interest did they make any offers prior to that date.
[/quote]

I'd have to go back through my files to find the name of the law firm so don't have it to hand and would not want to libel someone by getting it wrong.

They did not make any offer until the day before - in fact communication with them was almost unidirectional from me to them with no reply - although I was pretty certain they were going to fold as up to the day before they had still not lodged any case. I think they were just out to make as much work for me as they could with no real intention of fighting but when they offered to settle in full I accepted rather than try and convince the judge their actions had been so unreasonable as to warrant allowing costs for my wasted time (the only route through which you can get costs awarded in the Small Claims track.)

I think in Lloyds you are living in a different world from front line motor insurance offices.


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## The Horse's Mouth (2 Sep 2011)

Red Light said:


> I'd have to go back through my files to find the name of the law firm so don't have it to hand and would not want to libel someone by getting it wrong.
> 
> They did not make any offer until the day before - in fact communication with them was almost unidirectional from me to them with no reply - although I was pretty certain they were going to fold as up to the day before they had still not lodged any case. I think they were just out to make as much work for me as they could with no real intention of fighting but when they offered to settle in full I accepted rather than try and convince the judge their actions had been so unreasonable as to warrant allowing costs for my wasted time (the only route through which you can get costs awarded in the Small Claims track.)
> 
> I think in Lloyds you are living in a different world from front line motor insurance offices.



Maybe, but personally like most things there are good and bad insurance companies. As i said b4 i had a claim which took 18 months to settle when i went down a pot hole. The main reason for the delay was huge backlogs on the part of that insurer. Most companies are not like that.


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## exbfb (2 Sep 2011)

Haven't read the whole thread.

My motorcyclist friend was cut across like the OP and he flew across the bonnet and onto the road.
Never fully recovered.

It's been about 7 years now since the accident.

He never ever told me the payout, but his words were that he'll "never have to work again."

I'll wish that you get well fully rather than get well soon.


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## thefollen (6 Sep 2011)

Hi,

I experienced a very similar injury on July 7th. BMW cut straight 90 degrees across the front of me on my racer, bounced off the side @circa 20mph, level 3 AC Separation with torn ligaments. Driver accelerated off- totally their fault. Luckily a cabbie directly behind clocked the plate. Long story short the police investigation is still ongoing (hope they have him/her and notify me of all the details soon so I can proceed with a claim- but I won't discuss anything about that here.).

I know exactly how bloody painful and awkward it is and how little the NHS does for you initially- my greatest sympathies there. My collision occured about 9 weeks ago. Although each injury is different (after all, the collar bone and surrounding ligaments is a tricky area). They decided mine didn't require surgery (was 50/50 at the time). There is hope though as every day it gets a little better and you'll find yourself becoming more mobile. For the first week or two I was terrible. Since I live alone I couldn't get out of my football kit for three days (was cycling back when it happened- the NHS did kindly cut me out of my top at the hospital) and was more or less totally incapacitated. After two weeks you may be able to use the recumbent bikes at the gym to keep your fitness up- shoulder area isn't involved here.

I was driving again after a month and back on the Hybrid after 4/5 weeks, stable enough to run outside after 6. It'll be twingy but as mentioned gets a little better every day. I'm doing a physio session every 3 or so weeks. Just about getting there- have been back on the racer for about 3 weeks now (luckily I only had a buckled front wheel). Have a noticeable lump where my collarbone sticks out and it'll be a few weeks until I can do things like press ups (I hope) but ultimately I'd say you can live a normal-ish life after 3/5 weeks.

Anyways, hope it heals well for you, you manage ok and your professional life doesn't suffer too much. Feel free to drop me a message if you'd like to ask anything. Otherwise, keep positive and use the time to watch lots of films!

George


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## PJ79LIZARD (6 Sep 2011)

I bought a descent sling, and got rid of the hanky the hospital put on me, the pain is easing day by day. I'm thinking of buying a neoprene shoulder support. 

Spoke to my solicitor, got to wait for the forms to come, so I can start the claim process. Got to get the damaged assessed by a lbs to my bike at some point.

Going back to hospital a week on fri. See what they have to say then.


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## slowfen (6 Sep 2011)

Haven't read full thread, hope you heal well and soon. 

In the mean time keep a diary of every time you are in pain,loose sleep, or the injuries stop you carrying out you normal day, and how much medication/treatment you need, it'll help when the insurance medical people become involved.


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## Matthew_T (6 Sep 2011)

This might sound a bit selfish but try to squeeze as much compensation as possible. Claim for everything you have lost (time, repairs, costs). Nothing can be too small to claim, speak to your solicitor about the terms of claiming and if you can claim for everything you wouldnt have had to pay for if you were okay.


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## Matthew_T (6 Sep 2011)

Threads like this make me greatful that I have a camera on my bike now, so that I can provide the police and other people with video evidence of what happened and possibly what the driver said afterwards. 

It is always scary whenever you have a big incident, even when you simply fall off on your own.


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## Little yellow Brompton (6 Sep 2011)

PJ79LIZARD said:


> Got knocked off tonight, car 100m in front facing me indicating to turn to my left his right. There is nothing in front of me so clear sight to me, I slow a little anticipating him to make the manoeuvre, he doesn't so continue, this is happening at about 20 mph in a fluid motion, I get right on him, he makes the turn I hit the car fly over the roof and land on the floor.
> 
> I get up walk towards the kerb take off my rucksack feel chest pain and severe shoulder pain. Sit down, people start gathering driver comes over calling ambulance. Big lump on my shoulder, start getting blured vision and sickness feeling.
> 
> ...




He is looking at least £5,000 for injuries plus loss of wages etc... , the driver might want to think he is not going to go to his insurance company but he will run there very quickly when he realises that you are not talking about £50 for a BSO from Halfrauds.

Hand it over to a solicitor straight away.


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## the reluctant cyclist (7 Sep 2011)

Little yellow Brompton said:


> He is looking at least £5,000 for injuries plus loss of wages etc... , the driver might want to think he is not going to go to his insurance company but he will run there very quickly when he realises that you are not talking about £50 for a BSO from Halfrauds.
> 
> Hand it over to a solicitor straight away.



^^ This!

Who knows how long you will be off work for and what effect your injurieis will have on the future. Do it properly with Solicitors and medical reports etc so everybody knows what's what.


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## Origamist (7 Sep 2011)

thefollen said:


> Hi,
> 
> I experienced a very similar injury on July 7th. BMW cut straight 90 degrees across the front of me on my racer, bounced off the side @circa 20mph, level 3 AC Separation with torn ligaments. Driver accelerated off- totally their fault. Luckily a cabbie directly behind clocked the plate. Long story short the police investigation is still ongoing (hope they have him/her and notify me of all the details soon so I can proceed with a claim- but I won't discuss anything about that here.).
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear about this _thefollen _, but glad to hear you're recovering well. IIRC, you live v close to me - where did this happen?


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## thefollen (8 Sep 2011)

Origamist said:


> Sorry to hear about this _thefollen _, but glad to hear you're recovering well. IIRC, you live v close to me - where did this happen?



Hi Origamist,

It happened southbound on Blackfriars road a little north of the Elephant & Castle roundabout. I was on Blackfriars and the car was heading across into one of the side streets that's perpendicular. My feeling was they thought they could 'beat' me across the road so really accelerated... sadly not. It was after a session at the Old St Powerleague pitches so I wasn't exactly hammering it along. Could have been loads worse though! Glad I thumped into the side of him rather than the other way round :-)

George


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## Origamist (8 Sep 2011)

thefollen said:


> Hi Origamist,
> 
> It happened southbound on Blackfriars road a little north of the Elephant & Castle roundabout. I was on Blackfriars and the car was heading across into one of the side streets that's perpendicular. My feeling was they thought they could 'beat' me across the road so really accelerated... sadly not. It was after a session at the Old St Powerleague pitches so I wasn't exactly hammering it along. Could have been loads worse though! Glad I thumped into the side of him rather than the other way round :-)
> 
> George



Thank you. Hope to see you commuting regularly soon.


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## clarion (8 Sep 2011)

I had top open this thread, because it said:

Knocked Off _by Origamist

_and I wondered if he'd lost the plot.

Pointless incident, as so many are. Glad you're still with us, PJ79Lizard. Make sure you document everything, and get a solicitor involved. I haven't read the whole thread, but I guess you've been given good advice by the wise heads on here.

Best of luck.


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## Downward (8 Sep 2011)

How you getting on Paul - Only just read this as I have lost the bug a bit


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## Tynan (8 Sep 2011)

bummer, had much the same accident three years ago, going quicker (down hill)

driver given a speed awareness course, I really would let that go, unnecessary ag and no benefit to you

about a week off work, I was very lucky, cracked a tiny bone in my shoulder (it still hurt) and an awful of damage to my right side which healed

I got £6.5k from the CTC lawyers who seemed very good, I settled quite early after some physio for a stiff neck that physio thought would heal following treatment

I wish I hadn't as it never got better and is permanent stiff to painful

advice being let the lawyers do the hard work, claim for EVERYTHING and don;t settle until you're certain all your injuries have been accurately assessed, ie wait until the doctors say you're stable, if you have permanent injury, it can be compensated for

and of course don't think of dealing with the driver


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## PJ79LIZARD (9 Sep 2011)

Downward said:


> How you getting on Paul - Only just read this as I have lost the bug a bit



Hi, my shoulders getting some movement back now, but still painfull, just keeping it supported in a sling. I'm so bored though daytime tv is so crap! 

I set my bike up on the turbo, I tried it yesterday but it's too soon, gonna give it til after the weekend.

When I'm back on the road again well have to sort out a ride, you not been riding much lately?


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## Downward (9 Sep 2011)

PJ79LIZARD said:


> Hi, my shoulders getting some movement back now, but still painfull, just keeping it supported in a sling. I'm so bored though daytime tv is so crap!
> 
> I set my bike up on the turbo, I tried it yesterday but it's too soon, gonna give it til after the weekend.
> 
> When I'm back on the road again well have to sort out a ride, you not been riding much lately?




Where was the accident ? I am just commuting tbh - Probably safer to do some turbo work !!


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## fossyant (9 Sep 2011)

What have the docs said about making sure you can keep it moving ?

After my decompression op they said get rid of the sling asap - which basically meant as soon as the nerve block wore off.

Nerve blocks are weird - your arm is completely dead - no feeling and no muscle control, so it just hangs there. There is also no muscle control in the shoulder -feels like your arm is about to fall off.


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## PJ79LIZARD (9 Sep 2011)

I was just told to keep in a sling, I take it off when I'm in bed. I have got some movement back in it now, so I've just Been trying my arm in different positions to see where it's hurting most. I think in another week it will be alot better.

But that will be conserning the movement side of things. I can't put any kind of pressure on my hand it's just to painfull for my shoulder. I sat on my bike on the turbo and tried both hands on the handle bars, just supporting my weight on my right hand hurt my shoulder. I just hate sitting around, but I guess sometimes you have to.


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## thefollen (12 Sep 2011)

PJ79LIZARD said:


> The accident happened up the queensway, wollescote.
> 
> I was just told to keep in a sling, I take it off when I'm in bed. I have got some movement back in it now, so I've just Been trying my arm in different positions to see where it's hurting most. I think in another week it will be alot better.
> 
> But that will be conserning the movement side of things. I can't put any kind of pressure on my hand it's just to painfull for my shoulder. I sat on my bike on the turbo and tried both hands on the handle bars, just supporting my weight on my right hand hurt my shoulder. I just hate sitting around, but I guess sometimes you have to.



Hiya, don't know whether you saw my post but the recumbent bikes down the gym are good if you fancy some exercise without affecting your shoulder. You can wear the sling during this if you wish (although it'll get a bit sweaty and need washing afterwards) and due to being unable to grab the side bars padded shorts could be a good idea. Better than nothing though.

After a few sessions on this (did one every or every other day), I found myself about 2 gears up regular bike riding, and hills have nothing on me now ;-)


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## PJ79LIZARD (21 Sep 2011)

Well it's been three weeks since the accident now. I'd say I've got 90 % of movement back now. I'm back at work just taking things easy there. Got a decent sized lump from the protruding clavicle, can't lean on my right hand putting pressure on it, or lift anything with a bit of weight to it in my right hand without pain, but it is getting better with time, I'm confident in another 3 weeks it should be close to back to normal. The docs told me another 2 months and it should be fine. Been off the bike over 3 weeks and I'm starting to get a bit twitchy! I'm contemplating starting back comutting next Monday.


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## PJ79LIZARD (3 Nov 2011)

9 weeks on, the large lump has stayed for good, my sleeps been ruined now as I sleep on my side normally and have a habit of rolling over in my sleep. This causes pain and then wakes me up. That happens a few times a night. 

I can't carry shopping bags in my right hand anymore or anything else with a bit of weight as it causes pain. Get pain when I raise my arm above shoulder height. Still have pain and discomfort putting t shirt or jumpers on. 

So much for my thoughts of a full recovery. I'm now considering corrective surgery to my clavicle, but not sure if it will be worth it after that. Guess it's something that will take along time to slowly get better, or maybe it's something I'll just have to live with now.


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## Arjimlad (3 Nov 2011)

Ouch - I hope you feel better soon, maybe 9 weeks is simply not long enough for the injuries you have. I take it that you have instructed a solicitor by now, and that the insurers will be coughing up for physiotherapy and suchlike ?


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## PJ79LIZARD (3 Nov 2011)

My solicitors are dealing with the case, it's been withdrawn from the fast claim process, due the the car drivers insurers not admitting liability at the moment, which is ridiculous. They've got till Xmas to change there minds or it's off to court!


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## CopperCyclist (3 Nov 2011)

Wish you the best of luck with both your injury and the case. Can't see how the hell they are arguing liability with him turning across your lane!


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## Arch (3 Nov 2011)

CopperCyclist said:


> Wish you the best of luck with both your injury and the case. Can't see how the hell they are arguing liability with him turning across your lane!



I get the impression it's standard practice to argue, in the hope that the injured party gives up....


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## fossyant (3 Nov 2011)

Get yourself referred to a shoulder consultant and a MRI scan of the whole shoulder.

I haven't been able to sleep on my left shoulder for 3 years, even after a shoulder op - I know what you are going through. Invest in a few pillows and wedge one in your back so you can't turn over, and one on your front to support the damaged shoulder - i.e. raise it up off the bed surface.

You will most likely need an a/c or rotator cuff op or a decompression depending upon what they find.

Rotator cuff they fix up any torn ligaments etc. etc. 

A/C joint, they take off 5mm or so of bone off the end of the clavicle so it frees up the A/C

Decompression - shave bone off the various parts of the shoulder so it frees up muscle and ligament movement.

PS none are 100%. Mine was 80%. Mechanically it's now good, but I'm still in loads of pain, 9 months after the op. (that's not counting nerve damage).

Certainly back to GP and get to a shoulder consultant. 

Let the solicitor at least get the liability sorted. Think about seeing a physio, as they will give you a very good idea of what's going on in there, and if liability agreed, get some treatment paid for as an interim. It's taken me 2 years to get my £2k of physio fully paid out. Now going back to physio out of my own pocket, until final claim gets sorted.

It's going to be a long battle I'm afraid, so speak to the solicitor and plan any treatment, courses of action with them.

PS feel free to PM if you need to.


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## fossyant (3 Nov 2011)

Arch said:


> I get the impression it's standard practice to argue, in the hope that the injured party gives up....



Oh it is, even if liability agreed - dragging feet is another good one.


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