# Spoiler : Paris - Nice. 3-10 March



## thom (7 Feb 2013)

Route out today. The final stage is identical to last year - a 9.6 km ITT up the Col d'Eze.
I think Wiggins may not be out to defend his title - if so, it will be interesting to see if Froome goes for it.
Looks to be a tough course - the 3'rd last stage finishes at the Signal de Lure, which is enroute to Ventoux.


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## rich p (7 Feb 2013)

If Froome is following the Sky method to success at the TdF then it should be in his plan. Also he shouldn't be afraid of showing his hand too early as Wiggo did by mopping everything up last year.
Can anyone recall where Brad made his seasonal debut last year? Algarve?
edit - I've just had a vague recollection that Froome was going to miss both P-N and Tirreno and altitude training instead in Teneriffe .


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## montage (7 Feb 2013)

Wiggo climbed off in the Majorca challenge? Surely with the Giro sooner than the tour, he should be in better form than he was this time last year. Really looking forward to this Giro, more so than the tour which has a certain yank's skid marks all over it in the public eye.

I believe most of team sky is going to the altitude training camp - an interesting move that makes a lot of sense physically, but does miss out on an opportunity to race at the highest level and place yourself in the form hierarchy. Needless to say Boonallara should would have good cause to worry about the stealth black team sky ninjas sitting on their wheels over the classics period.

Another team sky note....how amazing in Heano looking right now?! I wouldn't be all that shocked if he turns out to to be climbing better than Bradley in the Giro


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## rich p (7 Feb 2013)

rich p said:


> If Froome is following the Sky method to success at the TdF then it should be in his plan. Also he shouldn't be afraid of showing his hand too early as Wiggo did by mopping everything up last year.
> Can anyone recall where Brad made his seasonal debut last year? Algarve?
> edit - I've just had a vague recollection that Froome was going to miss both P-N and Tirreno and altitude training instead in Teneriffe .


re-edit - on reflection, I think it was Geraint Thomas who was missing races in prep for the classics.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Feb 2013)

montage said:


> Another team sky note....how amazing in Heano looking right now?! I wouldn't be all that shocked if he turns out to to be climbing better than Bradley in the Giro


 
He's coming on very nicely indeed. I've been saying for a while that he's potentially Sky's best climber. He can sprint a bit too. But he still can't TT yet, which is the only thing that prevents him from being a serious GT contender.


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## thom (26 Feb 2013)

Starting soon. For those interested in the SKY line up :

BOSWELL Ian, KIRYIENKA Vasili, LOPEZ GARCIA David, PATE Danny , PORTE Richie, SIVTSOV Kanstantsin, TIERNAN LOCKE Jonathan, ZANDIO Xabier.

I guess this means they are riding for Richie Porte. He would certainly deserve the specific support. I'd be interested to see how he races for himself at key moments. 
Anyone know if JTL has been involved in a squad yet or is this his first SKY outing ?


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## thom (26 Feb 2013)

The more obvious names I can pick out from a provisional start list are:
Fuglsang for Astana, Van Gaarderen for BMC, Robert Gesink for Blanco, plus the likes of Menchov and Basso.


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## smutchin (26 Feb 2013)

Anyone know what Taaramae's form is like? Might be the kind of race that suits him if he's in good shape.

d.


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## rich p (26 Feb 2013)

I had wondered if JTL might be the main man for this one but Richie Porte is more likely and probably more deserving.
I think JTL was at Algarve?


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## thom (26 Feb 2013)

rich p said:


> I had wondered if JTL might be the main man for this one but Richie Porte is more likely and probably more deserving.
> I think JTL was at Algarve?


You're right, he finished in the middle of the field in that one.


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## rich p (26 Feb 2013)

thom said:


> You're right, he finished in the middle of the field in that one.


Keeping his powder dry for P-N


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## thom (26 Feb 2013)

rich p said:


> Keeping his powder dry for P-N


Are you a betting man ?


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## Flying_Monkey (27 Feb 2013)

Porte deserves a shot; there have been days when he was all but pulling the entire peloton uphill.


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## rich p (27 Feb 2013)

As I said t'up there^^^, Porte is the more likely but JTL may be the better climber on Ventoux's sister. Oooh er!


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## smutchin (27 Feb 2013)

rich p said:


> JTL may be the better climber on Ventoux's sister. Oooh er!



Do we have evidence for this? I've not seen JTL tackle any really big climbs - certainly not at this level (I wouldn't compare Alsace or Haut-Var to P-N). Is he that good a climber? Better than Porte?

d.


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## rich p (27 Feb 2013)

smutchin said:


> Do we have evidence for this? I've not seen JTL tackle any really big climbs - certainly not at this level (I wouldn't compare Alsace or Haut-Var to P-N). Is he that good a climber? Better than Porte?
> 
> d.


None at all Smutch! Pure speculation on my part!


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## smutchin (27 Feb 2013)

Fair enough! Who knows? You may even be right.


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## oldroadman (27 Feb 2013)

J T-L, who di an excellent job at the ToB last season, and deserved his Sky contract, is a neo-pro at world level. The management will have his numbers and want to see how he goes in the first really important stage race of the season. Porte will lead, and it will be interesting to see how well J T-L fares as a climbing domestique in the high mountains. Apparantly Sky have got quite a bit of weight off his already slim frame, so who knows what he can achieve in terms of watts/kg? Paris-Nice may be a good form guide. And never discount Sivtsov, either.


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## Flying_Monkey (27 Feb 2013)

oldroadman said:


> And never discount Sivtsov, either.


 
Good point, although he's really still on the recovery trail and rebuilding form and fitness isn't he?


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## Noodley (28 Feb 2013)

It'll be interesting to see how Lovkvist goes after his victory in Tour Med, his career faltered at Sky so let's hope if it is now on the up again!


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## smutchin (1 Mar 2013)

Start list:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/537143/paris-nice-2013-start-list.html


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## rich p (1 Mar 2013)

Looking forward to this one to see how Sky fare and some of the other notables. Fuglsang has a point to prove, as does Gesink as per, Talansky can make further progress, Westra was 2nd to Wiggins last year IIRC.


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## montage (2 Mar 2013)

Costa has to be another huge danger man


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## Noodley (2 Mar 2013)

montage said:


> Costa has to be another huge danger man


 
As long as he makes it to the start line on time and doesn't turn up Latte...

<I'll get my own coat...>


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## rich p (3 Mar 2013)

2.9km prologue! Hardly worth getting your kit sweaty.


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## Noodley (3 Mar 2013)

A good ride by Soupe


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## Noodley (3 Mar 2013)

I am struggling to find a live video link to work for me...anyone got any links I could try?


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## thom (3 Mar 2013)

Noodley said:


> I am struggling to find a live video link to work for me...anyone got any links I could try?


any of these work ?
http://www.steephill.tv/paris-nice/#live


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## Noodley (3 Mar 2013)

I have found a belgian link that works...


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## Noodley (3 Mar 2013)

nope, that's borked as well. Oh well live text it is then...


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## raindog (3 Mar 2013)

Gaudin - nice win for the lad. Ex track rider and Paris-Roubaix junior winner.

Chavanel in great shape - could well take the GC at the end of the week.


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## smutchin (3 Mar 2013)

I like Porte but I'd love to see Chava win this one. 

d.


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## Flying_Monkey (3 Mar 2013)

Well, one thing's for sure - that prologue isn't going to have any impact on the final standings.


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## ColinJ (3 Mar 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Well, one thing's for sure - that prologue isn't going to have any impact on the final standings.


It will do if the top few riders end up within seconds of each other on the final day!


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## Flying_Monkey (3 Mar 2013)

ColinJ said:


> It will do if the top few riders end up within seconds of each other on the final day!


 
I'm pretty sure that the steep Cat 1 finish on Stage 5 will prevent that from happening. And Stage 4 is pretty evil too. Plus there's a 10k final TT.


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## ColinJ (3 Mar 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I'm pretty sure that the steep Cat 1 finish on Stage 5 will prevent that from happening. And Stage 4 is pretty evil too. Plus there's a 10k final TT.


I remember 1989!  (The TdF, that is.)


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## Flying_Monkey (3 Mar 2013)

ColinJ said:


> I remember 1989!  (The TdF, that is.)


 
Me too - but how many times does that happen?


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## ColinJ (3 Mar 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Me too - but how many times does that happen?


An interesting question. In the Tour de France, 8 seconds, just the once, but there have been several sub-minute victories: 

8' (1989) Greg LeMond – Laurent Fignon
23' (2007) Alberto Contador – Cadel Evans
32' (2006) Óscar Pereiro – Andreas Klöden
38' (1968) Jan Janssen – Herman Van Springel
40' (1987) Stephen Roche – Pedro Delgado
48' (1977) Bernard Thévenet – Hennie Kuiper
55' (1964) Jacques Anquetil – Raymond Poulidor
58' (2008) Carlos Sastre – Cadel Evans 

Don't forget that Ryder Hesjedal beat Joaquim Rodríguez by only 16 seconds in last year's Giro d'Italia. 

So, normally a few seconds would not make a decisive difference, but from time to time they _do_!


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## smutchin (4 Mar 2013)

The 1989 prologue didn't really affect the final result since Lemond and Fignon finished within a few hundredths of a second of each other (and Sean Kelly).

Actually, tell a lie - the 1989 prologue probably did affect the final result, but not in the way you mean: if Delgado hadn't missed his slot by nearly three minutes, he probably would have won the Tour that year. 

(Delgado also bonked in the team time trial in stage two, possibly as a result of his attempts to limit his losses in the prologue, costing him more time; his total losses on those two stages amounting to more than his final deficit to Lemond.)

d.


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## beastie (4 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> The 1989 prologue didn't really affect the final result since Lemond and Fignon finished within a few hundredths of a second of each other (and Sean Kelly).
> 
> Actually, tell a lie - the 1989 prologue probably did affect the final result, but not in the way you mean: if Delgado hadn't missed his slot by nearly three minutes, he probably would have won the Tour that year.
> 
> ...


I have limited sympathy for Delgado.


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## smutchin (4 Mar 2013)

Indeed. With hindsight, I look on Delgado's misfortunes with a sense of schadenfreude rather than sympathy. 

d.


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## oldroadman (4 Mar 2013)

Some lost seconds are easier to get back than others for the GC guys. In this year's race, a few seconds now is not likely to make a huge difference, but the race will still, I think, be a matter of less than a minute or so between the final podium players.Longer TTs and mountain finishes have a bigger say than a little prologue which is only there to find a leaders jersey for the first proper race stage.
A good result here will be an indicator of Giro and TdF possibilities, even better a result in Suisse (which can be a bit challenging!) will refine the likely contenders.
Quite an open sort of season to come this year, I think, and it's quite possible that a lot of the big classics players will be at the Ride London race (I hear around 220 km) which will be a nice restart to the late season races.


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## Noodley (4 Mar 2013)

woohoo! Bouhanni wins


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## PpPete (4 Mar 2013)

Noodley said:


> woohoo! Bouhanni wins


And squeaks into yellow


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## raindog (4 Mar 2013)

He's fast that lad. Shame Kittel wasn't there though.


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## Strathlubnaig (4 Mar 2013)

Nice finish, a good day for French riders.


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## Noodley (4 Mar 2013)

PpPete said:


> And squeaks into yellow


 
Does he!? Even better  
Go FDJ!!!!


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## Noodley (4 Mar 2013)

Good to see Viviani contesting the sprint at the end as well, he's an exciting track rider and seems to be one to watch on the road as well.

I wonder how long Ale-Cheat will keep going?


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## smutchin (4 Mar 2013)

As well as Bouhanni in yellow, there's Chavanel in the green jersey and a Dutch rider on a French team in the polka dots. The sponsors will be happy.

What do we know about Bert-Jan Lindeman? Looks like he might be worth keeping an eye on for the future.


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## theloafer (4 Mar 2013)

Noodley said:


> nope, that's borked as well. Oh well live text it is then...


 try this i use it for football mostly but did watch cycling yesterday.. http://www.wiziwig.tv/


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## Basil.B (4 Mar 2013)

http://www.steephill.tv/paris-nice/


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## Noodley (4 Mar 2013)

Thanks I managed to find a Eurosport live video feed today, which worked great until the last 50 metres when a bloody advert filled the screen and I was left listening to the commentator shouting names and not really making it clear who was winning...thankfully I managed to get the replay a few secs later


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## smutchin (4 Mar 2013)

montage said:


> Costa has to be another huge danger man



Not any more!


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## ColinJ (4 Mar 2013)

Noodley said:


> Thanks I managed to find a Eurosport live video feed today, which worked great until the last 50 metres when a bloody advert filled the screen and I was left listening to the commentator shouting names and not really making it clear who was winning...thankfully I managed to get the replay a few secs later


It only costs £2.99 a month for a Eurosport Player subscription if you sign up for a year!

Be warned though - the cheapskates expect you to pay again if you want to use their app on a phone or tablet! 

_*Oh wow*_ - I've just discovered that Eurosport now allow you to use your PC subscription details to login to the free app! I'm using it on my Galaxy Tablet now and the picture quality is fabulous!

_Fantastic! _


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## montage (4 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> Not any more!


 
Guessing he was the wrong side of the split?


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## thom (4 Mar 2013)

montage said:


> Guessing he was the wrong side of the split?


Broken wrist worry - DNF


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## smutchin (5 Mar 2013)

That split had quite an impact though - you know it's serious when even the likes of Tom Boonen and Jens Voigt can't pull it back together. Credit to Europcar and BMC for putting the hammer down. 

Boswell and JTL had a bit of a tough lesson about racing at this level yesterday.


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## smutchin (5 Mar 2013)

Talking of DNF, amazed to see Kristoff finished the stage, albeit 17 minutes down. Didn't look like he was getting up again after his crash. 

And who was the Movistar rider who finished with a very raw looking buttock hanging out of his shorts? That looked rather uncomfortable. 

d.


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## raindog (5 Mar 2013)

Bouhanni out - on the slo-mo you could see his back wheel slide on a road marking. Very slippy out there today. Shame.


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## Noodley (5 Mar 2013)

Looked a sore smack in the face


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## matthat (5 Mar 2013)

That was a nasty slide for Bouhanni!! I just happened to put eurosport on 5mins before it happened!! New front teeth i think!


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## raindog (5 Mar 2013)

yeah, that was 'orrible


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## Flying_Monkey (5 Mar 2013)

That wind was so strong the sprint was almost in slow motion. Good win for Kittel.


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## smutchin (5 Mar 2013)

What were his lead-out men playing at though? They didn't have a clue where he was. Canny sprinting to win in spite of them.


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## Flying_Monkey (5 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> What were his lead-out men playing at though? They didn't have a clue where he was. Canny sprinting to win in spite of them.


 
Nobody seemed to be able to make their train work, I think the wind was just too much. Everyone was switching around, trying to find shelter and jump out at the last minute.


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## raindog (5 Mar 2013)

Jesus, that was a tough finish. Did you notice how many riders jumped too early then blew up?
Real shame Kittel got that puncture yesterday.


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## jdtate101 (5 Mar 2013)

Bouhanni surely must have some bust teeth and a broken nose after that, looked real nasty. To me it looked like the bike broke loose just as he crossed the white line...maybe it was a bit slick. Real shame this had to happen to anyone, let alone the race leader...


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## raindog (5 Mar 2013)

Race doctor said apparently he's got no broken bones or teeth, but he'll need stitches in his upper lip. Hopefully he'll be up and riding again soon.


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## thom (5 Mar 2013)




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## Noodley (5 Mar 2013)

raindog said:


> Jesus, that was a tough finish. Did you notice how many riders jumped too early then blew up?
> Real shame Kittel got that puncture yesterday.


 
Soupe especially. He just blew completely.


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## raindog (5 Mar 2013)

I know - almost stopped dead, didn't he?
Did anyone notice that image of Kittel bent double over his bike after the finish, unable to speak? Completely knackered.


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## Noodley (5 Mar 2013)

My video link froze just seconds after they crossed the line (thankfully, no adverts popping up today!) so I missed any "afters".


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## rich p (5 Mar 2013)

Canny bit of sprinting from Kittel. Wheel jumping like a giant Cav.


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## thom (6 Mar 2013)

Nasty weather today - descending the last climb, 15 km from the end, people taking risks, splits in the peloton. At the front, one sky rider took a chance too much and came off. Looked ok - i think it was Kiryenka. Really fractured at the front now. 7 guys broken off, including 2 sky riders (inc. Porte).
8 km to go - people chasing hard.


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## smutchin (6 Mar 2013)

Yes, it was Kiriyenka. Pretty spectacular but no damage done afaict - the camera bike passed him standing forlornly by the road a few moments later.


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## thom (6 Mar 2013)

Talansky wins, Porte must move up a lot in GC. The group of 7 had 7 secs over a very reduced chasing group.
Maybe Talansky has the yellow jersey out of that.
Quite a fun finish really.


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## smutchin (6 Mar 2013)

Eurosport commentators think Porte might have yellow.

Edit: Nope, they've changed their minds and are saying Talansky now... I'll just ignore them and wait for the official results.


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## thom (6 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> Eurosport commentators think Porte might have yellow.
> 
> Edit: Nope, they've changed their minds and are saying Talansky now... I'll just ignore them and wait for the official results.


time bonuses (according to France 3)


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## raindog (6 Mar 2013)

That climb certainly blew the peloton apart.
Chavanel missed out big time there.
Another interesting stage for tomorrow, apparently.


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## Flying_Monkey (6 Mar 2013)

Kiryenka's tumble was certainly spectacular, but that was a really convincing finish by Talansky who went for it from some way out. Porte and Grivko in very good positions for the overall right now, but Talansky himself has got the talent to see this through as well.


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## beastie (6 Mar 2013)

That was a good last 30 mins. Talansky sounded pretty keen for the overall after. He fancies both the queen stage final climb and the TT. I liked Porte's aggression to steal 7 seconds, he looked pretty strong.


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## thom (6 Mar 2013)

beastie said:


> I liked Porte's aggression to steal 7 seconds, he looked pretty strong.


Yes, SKY made that one happen coming over the top of the penultimate climb, when they had 4 guys on the front. Takes a bit of guts to do that through the wet. Kiryenka in particular went balls out on the final descent, closing to then passing Grivko (I think it was), before his fall.


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## smutchin (6 Mar 2013)

Tomorrow's stage looks like it could really shake up the GC standings and filter out the contenders from the also-rans - I don't think there's a metre of flat in it from the off. Three Cat 3 climbs and four Cat 2 climbs. An exciting day's racing in prospect.


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## Crackle (6 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> Tomorrow's stage looks like it could really shake up the GC standings and filter out the contenders from the also-rans - I don't think there's a metre of flat in it from the off. Three Cat 3 climbs and four Cat 2 climbs. An exciting day's racing in prospect.


yep


*Km 11.5* - Côte de Lachaud4.8 kilometre-long climb at 5.6% - *category 2*

*Km 27.5* - Côte de Condat6.9 kilometre-long climb at 4.4% - *category 2*

*Km 87.5* - Côte de la Chomasse3.4 kilometre-long climb at 5.1% - *category 3*

*Km 105.5* - Côte de Laprat2.1 kilometre-long climb at 3.8% - *category 3*

*Km 136.0* - Col du Rouvey2.8 kilometre-long climb at 5.6% - *category 3*

*Km 176.5* - Côte de Talencieux2.9 kilometre-long climb at 8.1% - *category 2*

*Km 191.0* - Côte de la Sizeranne2.9 kilometre-long climb at 6.6% - *category 2*


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## oldroadman (6 Mar 2013)

Just the sort of day that's really lovely for the climbers and 'orrible for everyone else. Much better when there are one or two long climbs, get into a nice rhythm, do what you can for the leader, form a bus with some others, and calculate how strong you need to ride to get inside the time limit.
This stage people could be in trouble early on and recovery is difficult, probably a long chase from 28 to 60 km just to get back and help out, then a bashing from about 105 onwards. Like I said, 'orrible. Plus if the weather is like today, miserable as well, with less chance to get a bit back on the wet descents.


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## Monsieur Remings (6 Mar 2013)

thom said:


> Yes, SKY made that one happen coming over the top of the penultimate climb, when they had 4 guys on the front. Takes a bit of guts to do that through the wet. Kiryenka in particular went balls out on the final descent, closing to then passing Grivko (I think it was), before his fall.


 
Fair play to him, it was a gutsy thing to do and I hope he's okay. Horrid incident and could have been as bad as the crash yesterday. 

Let's hope the weather improves because it was a seriously enjoyable stage today, even whilst all the big names are in Italy.


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## rich p (6 Mar 2013)

Crackle said:


> yep
> 
> 
> Km 105.5 - Côte de *Laprat*2.1 kilometre-long climb at 3.8% - category 3


 
Got that bit wrong, Andy Schleck's in the Tirreno Adriatico.


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## montage (6 Mar 2013)

rich p said:


> Got that bit wrong, Andy Schleck's in the Tirreno Adriatico.


 
For how much longer?


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## Herzog (7 Mar 2013)

montage said:


> For how much longer?


 
10 mins probably


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## smutchin (7 Mar 2013)

I didn't see any of the coverage but I'm pleasantly surprised to see from the standings that he at least finished the TTT - albeit with only one team-mate for company, some way behind the rest of the team - and amazingly, isn't last overall. Yet.


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## smutchin (7 Mar 2013)

So, Voeckler is already on the attack today. There's a surprise. Not.


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## Lee_M (7 Mar 2013)

thom said:


> Yes, SKY made that one happen coming over the top of the penultimate climb, when they had 4 guys on the front. Takes a bit of guts to do that through the wet. Kiryenka in particular went balls out on the final descent, closing to then passing Grivko (I think it was), before his fall.


 
was good to see JTL not being overawed and pushing up that climb, doing a proper team job


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## Noodley (7 Mar 2013)

JTL has a very distinctive and elegant climbing/riding style. Here's hoping we see more of it.


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## deptfordmarmoset (7 Mar 2013)

Noodley said:


> JTL has a very distinctive and elegant climbing/riding style. Here's hoping we see more of it.


Yes, he's one of those riders who simply look right on a bike.


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## Herzog (7 Mar 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Yes, he's one of those riders who simply look right on a bike.


 
Yes, the polar opposite to Chris Anker Sørensen!


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## PpPete (7 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> Tomorrow's stage looks like it could really shake up the GC standings and filter out the contenders from the also-rans - I don't think there's a metre of flat in it from the off. Three Cat 3 climbs and four Cat 2 climbs. An exciting day's racing in prospect.


 


Just looked at today's stage. Not sure if it's those exact roads but I once drove westwards through those hills from St.Vallier. I think I might just have averaged 30mph on the road, but as the crow flies it was less than half that. When I told folks at my destination, they said it would have been quicker to do the other three sides of the square on the motorway... down to the coast, back up via Toulouse. Over three times the distance - but still quicker!

Be lovely touring country if you were not in a hurry.


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## PpPete (7 Mar 2013)

TV, gurning champion of France, in the break and in virtual yellow.


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## raindog (7 Mar 2013)

Romain Sicard is in the seven man break today - seems to be back in shape after his two "lost years" - hope he has a good season.


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## smutchin (7 Mar 2013)

raindog said:


> Romain Sicard is in the seven man break today - seems to be back in shape after his two "lost years" - hope he has a good season.


 
He's already been in a break on one of the earlier stages too. Obviously up for it.


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## montage (7 Mar 2013)

No live feeds on this?


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## Noodley (7 Mar 2013)

Anyone got an English-language live video feed? I can only find a French-language link from steephill, despite it being on the "English" links...strange


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## Noodley (7 Mar 2013)

montage said:


> No live feeds on this?


 In French
http://88.80.5.80/w00t/20130304/vv51345463e8c12759197170-536511.html


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## thom (7 Mar 2013)

BMC blowing it apart - cross winds


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## smutchin (7 Mar 2013)

One more cat 2 climb to go. Looking like it'll be a good finish. Quintana has been dropped by the lead group.

Edit: Gilbert and Basso have also been dropped.


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## smutchin (7 Mar 2013)

Roche, Porte, Chavanel, Monfort, Talansky, Scarponi all going strong in the very select lead group at the moment... This is the stuff to give the troops.


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## raindog (7 Mar 2013)

Nico Roche just attacked


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## smutchin (7 Mar 2013)

Now Gesink's attacking!


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## thom (7 Mar 2013)

Albasini


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## smutchin (7 Mar 2013)

Looks like Chava nabbed third place - that'll be a handy few bonus seconds in the bank for him.

No, silly me - it was Velits.


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## raindog (7 Mar 2013)

Talansky riding really well.


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## Strathlubnaig (7 Mar 2013)

Good wee finish, nice one Talansky.


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## Noodley (7 Mar 2013)

raindog said:


> Nico Roche just attacked


 
I just aboot fell off my seat...

Then he reverted to norm of not quite being here nor there


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## Flying_Monkey (7 Mar 2013)

I missed all that. Today didn't break things up that much. Looks like tomorrow will be decisive.


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## jdtate101 (7 Mar 2013)

Favourite quote from Eurosport today... On the steep climb about 25km to go when Voeckler is off the front...

" You can always tell it's steep when tommy starts to drag his tongue on the handlebars"


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## Monsieur Remings (7 Mar 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> Favorite quote from Eurosport today... On the steep climb about 25km to go when Voeckler is off the front...
> 
> " You can always tell it's steep when tommy starts to drag his tongue on the handlebars"


 
I thought he was going to go it alone for a while when the bunch came within a few minutes. I was rather disappointed he didn't give it a go but I guess he's happy with the points for the mountain classification. FWIW, I think he'll win it.


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## Noodley (7 Mar 2013)

I am fairly sure that Mr V will learn to play the piano before he retires in order to remain a favourite of mesdames of a certain age...


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## raindog (8 Mar 2013)

today should be good


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## PpPete (8 Mar 2013)

Looking forward to ES commentators mispronouncing the name of the final climb. Bound to be a touch of the Peter Sellers to it.


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## smutchin (8 Mar 2013)

Another suicidal Tommy V breakaway to look forward to today? Seems inevitable really. 

I fancy Porte for the stage win today. 

d.


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## Noodley (8 Mar 2013)

Cyril Lemoine (Sojasun), Thierry Hupond (Team Argos-Shimano), Paolo Longo Borghini (Cannondale) and Jens Voigt (RadioShack Leopard) 5 mins 25 secs clear of the bunch after 57km of racing - oh how I look forward to Jens' witty tweets tonight...


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

I wouldn't be surprised if Talansky keeps this one. He's a superb climber. It will partly depend on whether Sky can do the same for Porte as he usually does for the Froome or Wiggins.


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## smutchin (8 Mar 2013)

Looking at who Porte has in his team is what made me think he'd be good for the win today. Talansky probably doesn't need that level of support. I expect he'll still be in yellow tonight.


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## thom (8 Mar 2013)

The final TT can make a big difference - last year Westra and Wiggins put in 45 secs to the nearest GC competitor on it, including well over a minute to Van Gaarderen. Westra is only 6 secs off Talansky at the minute.
I guess today we can get a clearer idea of the comparative form of these guys. I'd prefer Talansky to Van Gaarderen to win but I suspect neither will do so come Sunday.


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## raindog (8 Mar 2013)

I hope Talansky does hang in, as I think he's been really impressive so far, but as thom says, it'll probably all come down to the TT on sunday.
Right - off to get the telly warmed up.


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## Noodley (8 Mar 2013)

Germany 2 Japan 1 in the women's football on Eurosport


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## thom (8 Mar 2013)

raindog said:


> I hope Talansky does hang in, as I think he's been really impressive so far, but as thom says, it'll probably all come down to the TT on sunday.
> Right - off to get the telly warmed up.


If he does hang on, it will be impressive because it sounds he hasn't much support at the sharp end of the stages, in contrast to SKY, BMC and Astana. Gotta respect him for trying.


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## raindog (8 Mar 2013)

bloody hell - snow on the finish line today


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

raindog said:


> bloody hell - snow on the finish line today


 
Excellent...


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## thom (8 Mar 2013)

JTL abandons


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## raindog (8 Mar 2013)

JTL's abandoned

LOL another crossed post with thom


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

Lucky I didn't just post the same thing too!


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## thom (8 Mar 2013)

CRASH !!!!
Fortunately it does not appear anyone is badly hurt.

edit - clearly it will be interesting to find out why JTL dropped out. Anyone know anything ? Must be a bit of a step up he's making but I think most likely its an illness rather than being knackered.


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## Noodley (8 Mar 2013)

Oh, I see you already know about JTL


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## smutchin (8 Mar 2013)

thom said:


> If he does hang on, it will be impressive because it sounds he hasn't much support at the sharp end of the stages, in contrast to SKY, BMC and Astana. Gotta respect him for trying.


 
Hesjedal did it in the Giro last year. They breed 'em tough at Garmin.

d.


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## raindog (8 Mar 2013)

thom said:


> CRASH !!!!
> Fortunately it does not appear anyone is badly hurt.
> 
> edit - clearly it will be interesting to find out why JTL dropped out. Anyone know anything ? Must be a bit of a step up he's making but I think most likely its an illness rather than being knackered.


crash, according to Adam and Jalabert


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## thom (8 Mar 2013)

raindog said:


> crash, according to Adam and Jalabert


tf 3 ?


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## raindog (8 Mar 2013)

yes


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

Sky starting to show now.


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## smutchin (8 Mar 2013)

Sky doing what Sky do.


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## Strathlubnaig (8 Mar 2013)

Good effort from The Jensie up front, making the pack work to reel him in.


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## smutchin (8 Mar 2013)

Velits and Chavanel are still up there. Good to see a strong showing from OPQS.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

Siutsou and Lopez doing Porte's usual job... and Gesink is trying to go (not convincingly).


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## raindog (8 Mar 2013)

Sky pulling Talansky up nicely here


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## smutchin (8 Mar 2013)

Talansky looks deeply untroubled.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

Gesink's gone out the back, Scaponi off the front.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

At the moment, it seems hard to see Sky shaking Talansky, but Scaponi is dangerous - they can't let him go.


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## thom (8 Mar 2013)

Talansky goes !


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## smutchin (8 Mar 2013)

Talansky's off! Porte's after him! Race on.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

Grivko has gone too. I thought he'd be better than this.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

All very cautious now.


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## thom (8 Mar 2013)

Not sure of the logic of Talansky - does he feel the need to gain time before the TT ?
But it is nice to see a yellow jersey on the attack!


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

Menchov attacks, well, he doesn't matter quite so much... but they can't give him too much. And now Talansky is closing it down. He's looking very smooth.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

thom said:


> Not sure of the logic of Talansky - does he feel the need to gain time before the TT ?


 
He's trying to boss the race.

But Porte has attacked now!


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## Strathlubnaig (8 Mar 2013)

thom said:


> Not sure of the logic of Talansky - does he feel the need to gain time before the TT ?
> But it is nice to see a yellow jersey on the attack!


It got rid of Grivko, who was his closest rival time wise.


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## thom (8 Mar 2013)

Porte now


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

What an attack!


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## Strathlubnaig (8 Mar 2013)

good move from Porte, might just do it.


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## Noodley (8 Mar 2013)

Well timed attack by Porte


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

Inexperience from Talansky - because he was bossing before, now everyone is holding back and not helping him. Porte is away.


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## thom (8 Mar 2013)

1km, Porte has about 20 secs and extending. Looks like a great move


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

Brilliant ride tactically and physically by Porte.

And the rest are still watching each other. He's going to get loads on them.


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## Strathlubnaig (8 Mar 2013)

Porte in yellow now. Talansky blew that.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

What were they all playing at? Just knackered, I guess...


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## smutchin (8 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> I fancy Porte for the stage win today.


 
Just saying.


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## thom (8 Mar 2013)

Porte will have 26 secs over Talansky - he really finished the work his team mates did very well.


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## smutchin (8 Mar 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> What were they all playing at? Just knackered, I guess...


 
Yeah, I don't think any of them had anything left in the tank.


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## Crackle (8 Mar 2013)

Menchov attacked!

Great finish and Menchov still got 2nd.


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## Noodley (8 Mar 2013)

I doubt Porte could have executed that any better - superbly timed and superbly ridden.


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## Radchenister (8 Mar 2013)

Impressive, Porte pulled a rabbit out his hat - Talansky not looking a happy bunny.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

Talansky still has a bit to learn. Still an amazing ride for a kid of his age. But now 32 seconds behind Porte.


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## raindog (8 Mar 2013)

Did you see Porte piss past Menchove on that steep bend? Hope these boys are clean....


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## Strathlubnaig (8 Mar 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> What were they all playing at? Just knackered, I guess...


Yes I think they were just on the rivet at the end really. A 32" lead for Porte now. Bugger.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

Gesink is almost 4 minutes down. That is surprising. He either has his own schedule this season or something's wrong.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

raindog said:


> Did you see Porte **** past Menchove on that steep bend? Hope these boys are clean....


 
Well, Porte did look pretty farked at the end. And he had a free ride all the way up courtesy of his teammates. But yes, you always have to hope.


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## thom (8 Mar 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Well, Porte did look pretty f***ed at the end. And he had a free ride all the way up courtesy of his teammates. But yes, you always have to hope.


32 secs indeed.
Details tweeted on the ascent:
La Montagne de Lure (13.8 km, 6.46 %, 892 m). Richie Porte: 34 min 44 sec, 23.84 Kph, VAM 1541 m/h, 5.82 W/kg

Under 6 W/kg is not suspicious I think


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

thom said:


> 32 secs indeed.
> Details tweeted on the ascent:
> La Montagne de Lure (13.8 km, 6.46 %, 892 m). Richie Porte: 34 min 44 sec, 23.84 Kph, VAM 1541 m/h, 5.82 W/kg
> 
> Under 6 W/kg is not suspicious I think


 
It is certainly nowhere near unbelievable.


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## thom (8 Mar 2013)




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## beastie (8 Mar 2013)

Super win for Porte, and I thought Lopez looked an absolute beast of a domestique, what a good job he did, Sivtsov too. Talansky will be a big time rider very soon. It will make for an interesting weekend.


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## smutchin (8 Mar 2013)

beastie said:


> Super win for Porte, and I thought Lopez looked an absolute beast of a domestique, what a good job he did, Sivtsov too.


 
Siutsou was just brutal. Hardly surprising that he finished the stage nearly six minutes after Porte.

Very canny riding by Lopez when the attacks started coming - always checking over his shoulder to make sure Porte was safely on his wheel before upping the tempo to close them down. That's his experience showing through. Shame for Talansky that he allowed his lack of experience to show a little today though. He could have done with a team-mate or two to help him out.


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## beastie (8 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> Siutsou was just brutal. Hardly surprising that he finished the stage nearly six minutes after Porte.
> 
> Very canny riding by Lopez when the attacks started coming - always checking over his shoulder to make sure Porte was safely on his wheel before upping the tempo to close them down. That's his experience showing through. Shame for Talansky that he allowed his lack of experience to show a little today though. He could have done with a team-mate or two to help him out.


Talansky could be awesome by next year's summer. He shoulda kept his powder dry til closer to the finish. Porte showed how to do it, go once, go late, go hard, dont't look back.


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## Radchenister (8 Mar 2013)

beastie said:


> Talansky could be awesome by next year's summer. He shoulda kept his powder dry til closer to the finish. Porte showed how to do it, go once, go late, go hard, dont't look back.


 
I guess some of the biggest lessons are hard learned - he'll have that one engrained now for certain.


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## smutchin (8 Mar 2013)

Vaughters tweeted a little while ago: "You can't take the pitbull out of the pitbull."

He's right. And I hope Talansky never loses that side of his racing. He's fun to watch. With a bit more experience, he'll win big races.


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## Monsieur Remings (9 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> Just saying.


 
I was up very late last night Smutchin, and I saw your post and you were bang on fella. Fair play.


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## smutchin (9 Mar 2013)

Monsieur Remings said:


> I was up very late last night Smutchin, and I saw your post and you were bang on fella. Fair play.
> 
> (I've moved up one place on the fantasy league too).



Lucky guess! 

I certainly wasn't expecting it to pan out quite like it did - I imagined something more like the Planche des Belles Filles finish from the Tour last year, with Talansky in the Nibali role.

d.


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## tigger (9 Mar 2013)

raindog said:


> Did you see Porte **** past Menchove on that steep bend? Hope these boys are clean....



When I watched that I said to my mate, "these Sky boys have got to be on something". I live and hope I'm wrong. We wondered whether they have a new drug which isn't on the banned list. We also debated whether, if this was true, that its cheating. In F1 they exploit the rules through design interpretation all the time. Is it any different with finding a new drug, supplement or herbal remedy?


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## raindog (9 Mar 2013)

tigger said:


> Is it any different with finding a new drug, supplement or herbal remedy?


Yes. In F1 it's in the spirit and interpretation of the regulations. In cycling, it's cheating.
We're the only ones who seem to have noticed, but he went past Menchov as if he was standing still.
Wish I could ride like that.


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## smutchin (9 Mar 2013)

Sometimes, it's not so much about who is cheating but who isn't...

(Why are certain riders no longer able to match past performances, hmm?)

d.


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## montage (9 Mar 2013)

why are people surprised he blew past menchov so fast? it's menchov!


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## raindog (9 Mar 2013)

ha - the sun's shining in Nice


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## raindog (9 Mar 2013)

Chavanel gets the sprint in front of Gilbert! nice one Chav


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## Flying_Monkey (9 Mar 2013)

That was a weird sprint, it seemed to lack all urgency. Good win for Chavanel, but no-one really seemed to trying that hard today.


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## smutchin (9 Mar 2013)

Hurrah for Chava!


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## Nearly there (9 Mar 2013)

Gilberts face as he realised he'd been pipped at the line by chava was brilliant


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## thom (10 Mar 2013)

Funny conversation between Dave Harmon and Sean Kelly.
Already it has been pointed out that Wiggo holds the course record on the Col D'Eze TT course but when the course was 400 m longer, Kelly managed to do the course at a faster average speed...
Discussing how this was possible and the differences in riding style between the various riders, Kelly is talking about him having to ride out of the saddle for these things (his got a msg in his earpiece if he sat down for more than a minute), whereas Wiggo could sit on his bike with the latest aero technology, wind tunnel testing of his position etc. and do it churning a big gear.
Not sure if Harmon was deliberately implying potential differences in "preparation" too but it comes over as water off a duck's back to Kelly.


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## Strathlubnaig (10 Mar 2013)

Gilbert looked decidely mediocre there.


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## Flying_Monkey (10 Mar 2013)

thom said:


> Funny conversation between Dave Harmon and Sean Kelly.
> [...]
> Not sure if Harmon was deliberately implying potential differences in "preparation" too but it comes over as water off a duck's back to Kelly.


 
Yeah, it did sound decidedly odd.


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## Strathlubnaig (10 Mar 2013)

Porte had his Wheaties this morning for sure.


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## Strathlubnaig (10 Mar 2013)

Porte wins the overall, Talansky a good first loser, and nice to see a Frenchman on the podium with Peraud.


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## thom (10 Mar 2013)

Well down Porte - winning the stage as well as the GC.
Interesting also to note how well Talansky did - given BMC had greater numbers supporting TJ towards the end of stages and that Talansky outperformed TJ on this TT by a good margin, it appears Talansky has the edge out of the 2 young US riders.


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## WannabeCyclist (10 Mar 2013)

Man, I hope Sky are clean. Porte blew away the field just then, nearly beat wiggos time from last year!


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## jdtate101 (10 Mar 2013)

WannabeCyclist said:


> Man, I hope Sky are clean. Porte blew away the field just then, nearly beat wiggos time from last year!


 
Their watts per kg are far from suspicious, not like the silly strongman acts of old. For example Chris Froome did 5.93W/kg at the end of yesterday's stage, whereas the old doped riders did 7+ W/kg easily. I think looking at W/kg is the surest measure of doping or not. I think there was talk about a power passport similar to the blood passport, so minor changes could be tracked but large spikes would trigger investigations. Problems is that power is a riders "crown jewels" and that too much info would assist other teams etc...


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## jdtate101 (10 Mar 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> Their watts per kg are far from suspicious, not like the silly strongman acts of old. For example Chris Froome did 5.93W/kg at the end of yesterday's stage, whereas the old doped riders did 7+ W/kg easily. I think looking at W/kg is the surest measure of doping or not. I think there was talk about a power passport similar to the blood passport, so minor changes could be tracked but large spikes would trigger investigations. Problems is that power is a riders "crown jewels" and that too much info would assist other teams etc...


 
They are talking about exactly this in todays T-A stage...as I type.


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## BJH (10 Mar 2013)

WannabeCyclist said:


> Man, I hope Sky are clean. Porte blew away the field just then, nearly beat wiggos time from last year!


 

Looking at what he was doing in ten TdF lastvyearvhats not a surprise.


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## BJH (10 Mar 2013)

montage said:


> why are people surprised he blew past menchov so fast? it's menchov!


 Another rider who appears to be a lot slower these days, must be his age then ??


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## PpPete (10 Mar 2013)

BJH said:


> Another rider who appears to be a lot slower these days, must be his age then ??


I don't see age is necesarily a factor - look at Chris Horner's performances over the last few days.
In Menchov's case, a cynic might suspect that he can no longer "prepare" like he used to.... nor, probably, can Horner but he seems to be coping.


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## smutchin (10 Mar 2013)

Horner could probably afford AICAR if he wanted it, and probably knows people who could get it for him. 

If he wanted it.

d.


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## thom (10 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> Horner could probably afford AICAR if he wanted it, and probably knows people who could get it for him.
> 
> If he wanted it.
> 
> d.


Horner is a bit of an outlier, I guess like Jens. In the realm of long distance running, people in their late thirties can perform very well, if not right at the pinnacle. Horner doesn't jump around with bag fulls of energy like Talansky tried, or Porte at the finish. Perhaps he just knows his limitations - we don't see his name on the list of stupid times going up Apl d'Huez do we ? But he was certainly around through the dodgy era, if not really racing in Europe's biggest races.


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## smutchin (10 Mar 2013)

thom said:


> we don't see his name on the list of stupid times going up Apl d'Huez do we ?



Not Alpe d'Huez but...


View: http://youtu.be/k7kZt2JCrsE


I've seen stats claiming 6.8W/kg for this climb. No idea if that's accurate but even if not, it's a pretty impressive ride for a 39yo.

d.


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## Crackle (10 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> Not Alpe d'Huez but...
> 
> 
> View: http://youtu.be/k7kZt2JCrsE
> ...




I remember that and being 'surprised' at the time. I was waiting to see what he did at the Tour but he abandoned after crashing and since then he hasn't done much. Every dog has it's day, as they say.


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## Strathlubnaig (10 Mar 2013)

Be interesting to take away the power metres and see how things go for a hilly stage.


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## smutchin (11 Mar 2013)

Crackle said:


> Every dog has it's day, as they say.


 
It's an uncanny coincidence the way Horner's Indian summer seems to have started around the same time he started working under Bruyneel.


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## thom (11 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> Not Alpe d'Huez but...
> 
> 
> View: http://youtu.be/k7kZt2JCrsE
> ...



you're right - that may well not be normal...


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## Crackle (11 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> It's an uncanny coincidence the way Horner's Indian summer seems to have started around the same time he started working under Bruyneel.


Well, we all know how good a coach Bruyneel is.


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## smutchin (11 Mar 2013)

I've just noticed something while poring over the final standings...

Congrats to David Millar on winning the Lanterne Rouge!


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## montage (11 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> Not Alpe d'Huez but...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Being out the saddle for that length of time is no mean feat either...


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## rich p (11 Mar 2013)

Blimey, you lot are so cynical!
So what if a 41 year old suddenly finds wings. sprints uphill out of the saddle to smash a quality field. Maybe he was just inspired by his heroes Dr Ferrari Lance and Jakob.
FWIW, the ones he cycled away from are clean as a whistle - FACT. Levi said he'd given up the dope by then.


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## BJH (11 Mar 2013)

PpPete said:


> I don't see age is necesarily a factor - look at Chris Horner's performances over the last few days.
> In Menchov's case, a cynic might suspect that he can no longer "prepare" like he used to.... nor, probably, can Horner but he seems to be coping.



Peter I suspect you missed my hint of sarcasm!


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