# Planet X Delivery Charge



## Mr Reeves (30 Dec 2014)

I've just noticed that you now have to spend over £100 to get free delivery.
It was always free if you spent over £20. 
I have used PX a lot in the past, always seem to have some fairly decent stuff at good prices, especially tools, and didn't mind adding a cheaper item to take the spend over 20 quid to get the free delivery.
Will be thinking twice about using them from now on, with the postage costs added, some of there stuff won't be so cheap.
I think they could lose quite a bit of business over this move.


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## Roadrider48 (30 Dec 2014)

I don't think they will lose too many customers at the prices they charge.
I take your point on paying for delivery for something small and cheap, but they are really, really cheap for good quality gear. So it won't be putting me off.


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## jack smith (30 Dec 2014)

Must admit for people like me on a budget free delivery is a must when you can only buy one small thing at a time


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## jack smith (30 Dec 2014)

What i dont get though is how you can order an item from china for 20p and have it shipped to your door.. Wurely they are making a loss! For example i ordered a carbon headset spacer for 21p or something and it came within a week from shenzen


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## Blue Hills (30 Dec 2014)

It's a bad move from my point of view. I tend to buy stuff like lights from them.

So i will tend to hang on until i have a bigger order.

Then very probsbly just forget about it.

So their loss.


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## Pikey (30 Dec 2014)

They've missed out on an order from me because of this, but I doubt I'll make that big a dent in their finances 

Saying that though, I'll be driving up there today to have a 'look' (mrs p will be closely monitoring me) at a new tt bike 

So I'm sure it will all even out in the end...


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## outlash (30 Dec 2014)

I did notice that when I made an order over the weekend and I did pause for a moment, but when they're doing saddles with Ti rails for £20, I'm not going to quibble too much about a couple of quid on delivery. 

Tony.


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## helston90 (30 Dec 2014)

We've had this discussion here before about how much 'free delivery' is included in the cost of the product etc. 
I for one am on a budget and if I buy 4/5 things with my Xmas money can't afford 4/5 lots of £4 delivery from PX/ Decathon (free over £70)
However it was agreed on a previous thread that many people will easily spend more than both of those minimums and that not everyone is on a budget like me/ us.


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## youngoldbloke (30 Dec 2014)

Common sense really, just include the delivery charge in the price when comparing deals, if its still less than elsewhere, buy, if not don't. Therefore I sometimes buy from Rose or Bike 24 if their price is still lower after including a relatively hefty delivery charge.


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## screenman (30 Dec 2014)

Mr Reeves said:


> I've just noticed that you now have to spend over £100 to get free delivery.
> It was always free if you spent over £20.
> I have used PX a lot in the past, always seem to have some fairly decent stuff at good prices, especially tools, and didn't mind adding a cheaper item to take the spend over 20 quid to get the free delivery.
> Will be thinking twice about using them from now on, with the postage costs added, some of there stuff won't be so cheap.
> I think they could lose quite a bit of business over this move.



I am sure they would rather lose a bit of the non profit business than they would keep it.

It costs money to post and if the margins are not as wide as they were a while back then things have to change.

I will be increasing my charges this week, just to maintain the same mark up I had this year.

Youngoldbloke has the right idea.

Nobody likes a price increase, yet most want higher wages.


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## Andrew_P (30 Dec 2014)

I have yet to find a company that will deliver to my customer for free, although everything I sell is advertised as free delivery. Everyone mentions how wonderful it was to have free delivery and yet I take the cost price of the item, add the cost of delivery then add my margin then add VAT then check to see my competition and adjust is slightly to match or undercut. I make a margin on the delivery as I would on anything else I purchase and sell.

Still cannot believe anyone believes they get free delivery.

In fact since the clamber for free delivery my margins have gone up as every item has the individual delivery cost added, if someone buys multiple items I am quid's in!


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## Dan B (30 Dec 2014)

I don't really mind whether delivery is a sperate charge or is included in the price, but I do object when it's not clearly indicated. If your site wants me to register with name/address/password/mother's maiden name/inside leg length before you'll even tell me how much you charge to send the item to a UK address, I'll go somewhere else if possible


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## 400bhp (30 Dec 2014)

That's a real shame. I've bought quite a lot of stuff of them in the past, albeit only one order was over £100.

Same as above, the light sets are really good. Delivery is £3.95 so will just have to weigh up whether an order under £100 is worthwhile.

Thing is a lot of their stuff appears to be unique to them. I'm not sure if that's a help or hinderance by adding a delivery charge.

I'd hope they have done their sums and looked at orders under/over £100, then applied some assumption of the number of orders they will lose because of this, and they still make profit.

I'm going to make a prediction. The delivery charge will be removed down to £20 ish within 6 months, but their small item product prices will rise by c 20%.


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## Soltydog (30 Dec 2014)

I bought a few things from them in early December & free delivery was on orders over £50, but my last order I noticed it was £100 for free delivery. At £50 i could always find something to add to my basket to get free delivery, but my last order I just stuck with what I wanted rather than looking for other stuff to add to get free delivery, so maybe they will lose some sales this way? 
Some stuff they sell so cheap the delivery charge will still make it worthwhile.


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## screenman (30 Dec 2014)

So stuff they sell so cheap they may not have the margin to cover postage any more.

I use RM for most of the items I send out, I have to charge extra for signed for which some people object to. Unfortunately this come about after some people received goods then denied it.


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## Levo-Lon (30 Dec 2014)

You could also use thr LBS? Now theres a thought..it might stay open instead of having its throat cut..

I buy off the net and yes free post always sounds good but you are paying for post..but theres something nice about buying at the till..we do need to help our bike shops.


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## Soltydog (30 Dec 2014)

meta lon said:


> You could also use thr LBS? Now theres a thought..it might stay open instead of having its throat cut..


All well & good if you have a LBS. But the nearest good bike shop to me is 15 miles away


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## screenman (30 Dec 2014)

Soltydog said:


> All well & good if you have a LBS. But the nearest good bike shop to me is 15 miles away



Good excuse for a little ride. The one I use is 23 miles away, Barron Cycles a right proper shop lad.


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## Soltydog (30 Dec 2014)

screenman said:


> Good excuse for a little ride. The one I use is 23 miles away, Barron Cycles a right proper shop lad.



It is, but depends what you want & it's not particularly nice rides to any of them, Centre of Hull, or Beverley are my nearest & it isn't somewhere I'd cycle for pleasure. I do use 1 or 2 in Hull sometimes if I'm at work, but they seem to have limited stock/product range as opposed to online


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## screenman (30 Dec 2014)

Soltydog said:


> It is, but depends what you want & it's not particularly nice rides to any of them, Centre of Hull, or Beverley are my nearest & it isn't somewhere I'd cycle for pleasure. I do use 1 or 2 in Hull sometimes if I'm at work, but they seem to have limited stock/product range as opposed to online



You got some great shops in Hull a good what I call friend owns Kingston Cycles.


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## Soltydog (30 Dec 2014)

screenman said:


> You got some great shops in Hull a good what I call friend owns Kingston Cycles.


That's one shop I have not used, wrong side of Hull for me & parking on Hessle road is terrible , but maybe it's worth trying


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## Saluki (30 Dec 2014)

I really have no problem paying a delivery charge. I used to make and sell silver jewellery. I had a small postage charge of 1.50 for mainland UK and never had a quibble about the cost of it, even on small items. I couldn't find anyone who would give me packaging/padded envelopes for free, nor would the post office deliver them for free so I had to charge. I felt that it was fairer to make a postage charge than to put my prices up. People expected to pay for delivery.

A small postage charge is unlikely to put me off having something delivered. Naturally, if I'm going their way in the very near future, I'll hang on and get it when I'm there.


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## Roadrider48 (30 Dec 2014)

Your local bike shop is all well and good(and I am a fan of them btw).
But, more often than not they haven't got what you want in stock. Even a place like Evans make you order most things because they don't have it in. And smaller shops, even less so.
As far as Planet X goes. Today I bought a softshell for £35.00+£3.95 postage. Originally priced £120 i think.
This is the reason they won't lose many customers IMHO.


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## pawl (30 Dec 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> I don't think they will lose too many customers at the prices they charge.
> I take your point on paying for delivery for something small and cheap, but they are really, really cheap for good quality gear. So it won't be putting me off.


If it means they no longer use Yodell for delivery I will happily pay


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## Hacienda71 (30 Dec 2014)

I buy from the LBS for convenience not price. For value I will shop around, just bought a new front mech for my bike rrp £45 PlanetX price £18.99 inc postage. Cheapest place I could find.


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## ayceejay (30 Dec 2014)

Sign up for the PX newsletter and watch for an offer that will cover the postage. Tyres are competitively priced to begin with so a 10% reduction covers postage to Canada.


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## Dragonwight (30 Dec 2014)

I had never shopped at Planet X before this month but their gear is so cheap I thought I would give it a punt. Very pleasantly surprised, good gear certainly worth a few quid on delivery.


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## downfader (30 Dec 2014)

Had a weird one at the weekend. Wanted to get some new gloves so clicked "buy". Then I noticed the 105 sprocket dirt cheap, whack that in the basket. Clicked for checkout and the page said "if you order £50 or more then get free delivery!" So I whacked some lights and a chain on it... only it wouldnt let me have the free delivery. 

I also noticed that changing/deleting the items in the basket changed the "free postage" number to seemingly random figures. 
It was a fair bit of cheek to raise the free postage so high from 20 quid though...


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## screenman (30 Dec 2014)

Maybe a few seconds looking at currency rates helps, I know some of my margins have slipped.


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## SpokeyDokey (31 Dec 2014)

downfader said:


> Had a weird one at the weekend. Wanted to get some new gloves so clicked "buy". Then I noticed the 105 sprocket dirt cheap, whack that in the basket. Clicked for checkout and the page said "if you order £50 or more then get free delivery!" So I whacked some lights and a chain on it... only it wouldnt let me have the free delivery.
> 
> I also noticed that changing/deleting the items in the basket changed the "free postage" number to seemingly random figures.
> *It was a fair bit of cheek to raise the free postage so high from 20 quid though*...



How is it a bit of a cheek?

There is nothing unreasonable about it - It's a simple straight forward business decision.

You either buy into it or you don't.

***

I think one thing that some people do not realise is that just because they have money to spend that every business actually wants their custom.

***

Some people will no longer want to deal with PX as they see a small delivery charge as an issue.

PX no longer want to deal with people who see a small delivery charge as an issue.

Seems like a good fit to me.


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## simon.r (31 Dec 2014)

jack smith said:


> What i dont get though is how you can order an item from china for 20p and have it shipped to your door.. Wurely they are making a loss! For example i ordered a carbon headset spacer for 21p or something and it came within a week from shenzen



The Univesal Postal Convention: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/472092/postal-system/15442/The-international-system


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## Blue Hills (31 Dec 2014)

I find that the issue with them is that, excellent though their prices often are, they sell a fairly restricted range of stuff, making it pretty hard, even with the best will in the world, to hit their post-free level.

I am sure that they will be doing lots of analysis/number crunching on this.

I can't help but think that they will adjust it diwnwards after a while.


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## screenman (31 Dec 2014)

We have a few customers that we make no money at all out of, I will not have them for much longer.


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## downfader (31 Dec 2014)

SpokeyDokey said:


> How is it a bit of a cheek?
> 
> There is nothing unreasonable about it - It's a simple straight forward business decision.
> 
> ...



It is cheek when you have a loyal customer base who have come to expect a particular service and then get something else. Whilst people may not choose an outlet on the sole basis of postage it does make you balance up what else you might throw in the basket. There was no real increment, it realistically the removal of free postage for 90% of their customer base.


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## screenman (31 Dec 2014)

downfader said:


> It is cheek when you have a loyal customer base who have come to expect a particular service and then get something else. Whilst people may not choose an outlet on the sole basis of postage it does make you balance up what else you might throw in the basket. There was no real increment, it realistically the removal of free postage for 90% of their customer base.



What if you had started making a loss on these sales. 

Out of interest where did your number 90 come from?


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## Andrew_P (31 Dec 2014)

downfader said:


> It is cheek when you have a loyal customer base who have come to expect a particular service and then get something else. Whilst people may not choose an outlet on the sole basis of postage it does make you balance up what else you might throw in the basket. There was no real increment, it realistically the removal of free postage for 90% of their customer base.


Honestly it was never, ever free postage. The one thing I disagree with is what they have done is the notional £3.95 rather than a simple by weight calculation which most ecommerce software allows you to do.


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## downfader (31 Dec 2014)

screenman said:


> What if you had started making a loss on these sales.
> 
> Out of interest where did your number 90 come from?


Its a guestimate from others I speak to.

I'm not saying they should even be at risk of making a loss, but there are better ways to deal with things.


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## downfader (31 Dec 2014)

Andrew_P said:


> Honestly it was never, ever free postage. The one thing I disagree with is what they have done is the notional £3.95 rather than a simple by weight calculation which most ecommerce software allows you to do.


Again, I accept that. See above - its about communication and the threshold.


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## screenman (31 Dec 2014)

Andrew_P said:


> Honestly it was never, ever free postage. The one thing I disagree with is what they have done is the notional £3.95 rather than a simple by weight calculation which most ecommerce software allows you to do.



It is just not about weight though. I like the £3.95 it is less than I charge.


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## youngoldbloke (31 Dec 2014)

Since Wiggle and Chain Reaction introduced their carriage charges I have looked elsewhere for those under £10/£9 purchases to get them post free if possible. Suspect I won't be buying much from Planet X either in the future either unless they pass my 'price quoted + carriage charge still cheaper than elsewhere' test. Over £100 does seem a bit steep to me. In the end I will continue looking for the lowest cost deal - I can't afford not to.


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## screenman (31 Dec 2014)

downfader said:


> Its a guestimate from others I speak to.
> 
> I'm not saying they should even be at risk of making a loss, but there are better ways to deal with things.



So it could be 9% which for the work involved with sending out penny items, they might be happy to lose.

You cannot please all of the people all of the time.


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## KneesUp (31 Dec 2014)

It would be nice if PX had a 'click and collect' option.

I know I'm not the only one to have gone to their store in Rotherham expecting most or all of the stuff they sell online to be there, only to find that hardly any of it is.

Click and collect is good because it gives them economies of scale (i.e. they will be taking multiple orders to the same place) plus an opportunity to sell more stuff to the customer when they collect. And it's good for me because I can get there for less than the cost of carriage if I'm going to be that side of town anyway.


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## dodgy (31 Dec 2014)

If I could be bothered, I'd go to PX and Wiggle, Ribble, CRC and fill a virtual basket with some common items (ultegra chain, a michelin pro race 4 tyre etc) then compare total cost.

But I can't.

But when it comes to my next shopping spree, that's what I will do. I won't be surprised if it's still on the whole cheaper at PX, if it isn't, simple decision isn't it?
Can't see what the fuss is all about.


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## Roadrider48 (31 Dec 2014)

KneesUp said:


> It would be nice if PX had a 'click and collect' option.
> 
> I know I'm not the only one to have gone to their store in Rotherham expecting most or all of the stuff they sell online to be there, only to find that hardly any of it is.
> 
> Click and collect is good because it gives them economies of scale (i.e. they will be taking multiple orders to the same place) plus an opportunity to sell more stuff to the customer when they collect. And it's good for me because I can get there for less than the cost of carriage if I'm going to be that side of town anyway.


You can order and arrange to collect in-store at PX.
They offer this at the checkout.


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## Blue Hills (1 Jan 2015)

youngoldbloke said:


> . Over £100 does seem a bit steep to me.


Yes, it is surely way above most outfits' thresholds.

Anyone got a theory as to why theirs is so much higher?


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## screenman (1 Jan 2015)

Blue Hills said:


> Yes, it is surely way above most outfits' thresholds.
> 
> Anyone got a theory as to why theirs is so much higher?



I guess they want to make a profit. Seems a logical idea to me.


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## KneesUp (1 Jan 2015)

Roadrider48 said:


> You can order and arrange to collect in-store at PX.
> They offer this at the checkout.


Is that a new thing? I'm sure it didn't used to be there: if it was I've totally missed it. That's perfect for me


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## youngoldbloke (1 Jan 2015)

Seems quite a radical change. It's one thing to make a basket of very inexpensive gloves, lights, multitools, inner tubes etc etc add up to over £20, very much another thing to fill your basket to add up to over £100. It must put off many of those spur of the moment 'wow, thats a bargain' purchases.


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## Phil Fouracre (1 Jan 2015)

I must be missing something here! What's the problem? Free postage was always built into the cost somewhere. So, you don't want to pay postage, then don't, go somewhere else.


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## youngoldbloke (1 Jan 2015)

Point is what cost you £20 from PX will now cost you £23.95. I know 'free' postage was built into the cost - that is why it is not always the best deal. It pays to shop around.


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## screenman (1 Jan 2015)

They were losing £3.20 on every delivery under £20 they sent out before.

Well maybe not, but who knows, not us lot for sure.

I like some of their stuff enough not to worry about a bit of postage.


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## Wobblers (1 Jan 2015)

User said:


> Maybe they decided that encouraging people to buy stuff they didn't really need or want, just to make it up to £20, went against some of their ethical principles.



So instead they're now encouraging people to buy unneeded stuff to make it up to £100?

(I suppose I should mention that while this is effectively a price increase, as long as they send it using the RM, so that it actually arrives at my house using a courier who actually pays a decent wage to their employees, I'm not too bothered.)


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## BrynCP (1 Jan 2015)

I've never spent £100 at a time on any online bike shop. That said, it may still be cheaper when adding the delivery charge, but I think it is a psychological thing of seeing the jump at checkout that sends you elsewhere.



screenman said:


> You got some great shops in Hull a good what I call friend owns Kingston Cycles.



An ex-colleague used to rate this shop very highly too. I've never been in though despite working just around the corner; when buying a bike I didn't recognise any of their brands (doesn't mean much considering my experience).

The ride from Hornsea to the outside of Hull is nice, I do it quite a lot as a 45 mile loop. But then you have to ride along the busy roads to get to any bike shop. Beverley isn't as busy though, however a 40 mile round trip is a bit far for an inner tube if you wasn't planning that ride already!


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## jack smith (1 Jan 2015)

Personally i use free postage places more on small orders but im always on a limited budget but you can imagine how much more theyw ill be making from ordere just by adding the 4 quid to each one... Hundreds a day no doubt


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## screenman (1 Jan 2015)

Or you could see it as not losing hundreds a day on small sales.


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## screenman (1 Jan 2015)

Jack here is one for you, say you could work comfortable and earn £1000 a day or you could work stupidly hard for £1050. Which one, the second giving you way less stress and more time on your bike.

You can only have one choice.


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## jack smith (1 Jan 2015)

I wasnt disagreeing with there logic at all.


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## youngoldbloke (1 Jan 2015)

screenman said:


> They were losing £3.20 on every delivery under £20 they sent out before.
> 
> Well maybe not, but who knows, not us lot for sure.


Screenman, as you seem to know about these things could you explain how companies such as Wiggle and Chain Reaction make money, while still offering reasonable(ish) prices, AND free returns?


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## screenman (1 Jan 2015)

2 months and nobody will be thi


jack smith said:


> I wasnt disagreeing with there logic at all.



I know that now, but do you understand my question. I got rid of a lot of low margin customers a while back and kept the better one's, easy being a busy fool in my trade at least.


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## albion (1 Jan 2015)

In this day and age, commerically near any publicity is good publicity.

The ploy worked a treat.


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## screenman (1 Jan 2015)

youngoldbloke said:


> Screenman, as you seem to know about these things could you explain how companies such as Wiggle and Chain Reaction make money, while still offering reasonable(ish) prices, AND free returns?[/QUOTE
> 
> Not a clue, are they bigger and run a completely different business style.


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## jack smith (1 Jan 2015)

What business are you part of out of interest is it s bikes business? I can imagine planet x will loose out on alot of low profit customers but if charging postage will do better for them or not only time will tell i suppose.


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## screenman (1 Jan 2015)

My business or the one I trimmed back on was mainly the mobile side of the windscreen repair and paintless dent part. I stopped going out for dealers who only had 1 or 2 jobs at a time. Now I only mobile for 3 jobs or more.

This freed up a lot of time each week, which for me was spent growing the more profitable bits up, for example the training side.


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## BrynCP (1 Jan 2015)

youngoldbloke said:


> Screenman, as you seem to know about these things could you explain how companies such as Wiggle and Chain Reaction make money, while still offering reasonable(ish) prices, AND free returns?


I guess if they work on a model of a minimum 40% gross margin, then on £20 that would be £8 margin. They should be able to negotiate around £3 carriage fee max with their carriers. So basically it would erode their margin entirely when you add the cost to serve, packaging etc.

Most people probably spend more than £20 or buy higher margin products. I have no idea what margin they work on. The bikes probably have a huge margin.

Regarding returns, they should be minimal if they sell quality products with accurate details, and it's good customer retention.


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## phil_hg_uk (1 Jan 2015)

youngoldbloke said:


> Screenman, as you seem to know about these things could you explain how companies such as Wiggle and Chain Reaction make money, while still offering reasonable(ish) prices, AND free returns?



They have more buying power so the goods are cheaper and they can negotiate cheaper prices with the couriers. They probably pay a fixed amount to collect + to cover all the returns which in turn will get them more customers and make them more money, that's assuming they are making money of course high turnover does not necessarily mean high profit.


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## dodgy (1 Jan 2015)

phil_hg_uk said:


> high turnover does not necessarily mean high profit.



Amazon.


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## phil_hg_uk (1 Jan 2015)

dodgy said:


> Amazon.



Have they actually made a profit yet ?


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## dodgy (1 Jan 2015)

phil_hg_uk said:


> Have they actually made a profit yet ?



Not to my knowledge!


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## dodgy (1 Jan 2015)

User said:


> Would that be anything to do with transfer pricing?



Ask me one on sport.


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## dodgy (1 Jan 2015)

User said:


> Amazon pay money from Amazon UK to Amazon Luxembourg, reducing the profits of Amazon UK.



Maybe, but that would mean that somewhere, somehow, Amazon might be making money. I'd read that Amazon hadn't turned any profit anywhere so far, that could be because Bezos is churning the money back into the business. Who knows.


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## Andrew_P (1 Jan 2015)

I get the impression that Amazon world wide are not making a massive if any profit as it is being constantly fed back in to the business for improving infrastructure, until they have got to world domination.


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## DCLane (1 Jan 2015)

I'm buying more and more from Halfords as a result of delivery charges; I get it delivered to the local Halfords (Dewsbury/Leeds) and collect it to/from work.


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## Andrew_P (1 Jan 2015)

youngoldbloke said:


> Screenman, as you seem to know about these things could you explain how companies such as Wiggle and Chain Reaction make money, while still offering reasonable(ish) prices, AND free returns?


As someone else said earlier some of it will be volume discount, the two companies mentioned have bidding battles over full containers of such things as tyres, nearly all LBS's will purchase as an example Fulcrum Wheels from the UK distributor, yet the big mail orders will deal direct with the manufacturer probably buying at the same or possibly better than Madision etc.

Wiggle turned over £168 million for the year to Feb 2014 and added almost 9 million to their shareholders funds, so definitely a bit of profit in cycling! (and running etc)


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## Arrowfoot (1 Jan 2015)

phil_hg_uk said:


> Have they actually made a profit yet ?



Apple famously did not hand out dividends for 17years. It is now the most valuable company in the World and its cash hoard is immense. Jeff Bezos was very clear before, during and after the IPO that he is not looking at the short term. Amazon has been investing heavily in technology and people. And he is also capitalising on UK and EU's weak anti trust laws.

The customers are now the beneficiaries of its influence in the marketplace. Hopefully Bezos does not screw customers when he controls all the levers. If Amazon did not step in it would have been the ;likes of Alibaba.

UK's bane is that its best minds are in academia and state research entities and not exactly in commerce. In the US, there is routine movement back and forth between academic and commerce.


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