# Tent recommendations for touring



## citybabe (24 Apr 2020)

Looking for some tent recommendations please. 
What’s ideal for 3-4 day touring?

It would be just me inside it so would I need just a 1 person tent or 2 persons for a little extra space?


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## mudsticks (24 Apr 2020)

Campsite?

Or wildcamping?

Do you get claustrophobic in small tents? 

Budget?


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## IaninSheffield (24 Apr 2020)

citybabe said:


> Looking for some tent recommendations please.
> What’s ideal for 3-4 day touring?
> 
> It would be just me inside it so would I need just a 1 person tent or 2 persons for a little extra space?


Have always preferred a 2 person tent for the additional room it provides. I'd only go for a 1 person if saving a few hundred grams was absolutely crucial. There are other factors too, like how much headroom you need across the footprint of the tent, whether you need it to be free-standing or not, where you're going to carry it on the bike, what kind of weather you need to shelter from (UK? Summer? Winter?) etc
As @mudsticks says, budget is important of course; generally, the lighter you need to go, the more you have to pay.

Here's one person's list of condiderations which might help you decide what factors are important for you.


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## mudsticks (24 Apr 2020)

IaninSheffield said:


> Have always preferred a 2 person tent for the additional room it provides. I'd only go for a 1 person if saving a few hundred grams was absolutely crucial. There are other factors too, like how much headroom you need across the footprint of the tent, whether you need it to be free-standing or not, where you're going to carry it on the bike, what kind of weather you need to shelter from (UK? Summer? Winter?) etc
> As @mudsticks says, budget is important of course; generally, the lighter you need to go, the more you have to pay.
> 
> Here's one person's list of condiderations which might help you decide what factors are important for you.



Yes weight, size, robustness, price. 

Those factors will all potentially compromise each other. 

You need to decide which are most important. 

If you've not cycle camped before probs go for cheaper first, and see if you like it before you commit to anything spendier. 

I currently tour with a tarp tent Moment. 
Very light, windworthy enough for Scotland, not too claustrophobic.. Goes up inner and outer together in a 'moment' - handy for late evening deployment, in out of the way places. 

But _not _cheap..

Decathlon have reasonable priced and perfectly good enough quality shelters.


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## IaninSheffield (24 Apr 2020)

Sound advice again from @mudsticks 
Milletts have some deals on atm. and you'll get a sense on that page of the different styles and what you might get for different budgets.


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## Aushiker (24 Apr 2020)

For what it is worth my tent of choice is a Tarptent Double Rainbow. I travel solo but like the bit of extra room, the Double Rainbow provides. It also packs down reasonably well which is important as I mostly bikepack so the tent has to go in a bag attached to my Revelate Designs Harness on the handlebars.

Of course, as has been suggested there a number of factors too consider in making your choice.


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## mudsticks (24 Apr 2020)

Aushiker said:


> For what it is worth my tent of choice is a Tarptent Double Rainbow. I travel solo but like the bit of extra room, the Double Rainbow provides. It also packs down reasonably well which is important as I mostly bikepack so the tent has to go in a bag attached to my Revelate Designs Harness on the handlebars.
> 
> Of course, as has been suggested there a number of factors too consider in making your choice.
> 
> View attachment 517436



Nice.. 
And have you seen they've just released a DCF version of the tt double rainbow..??

Sorry - tent nerd thread drift alert..


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## Aushiker (24 Apr 2020)

mudsticks said:


> Nice..
> And have you seen they've just released a DCF version of the tt double rainbow..??
> 
> Sorry - tent nerd thread drift alert..


No, I didn't know that. I have had Cuban fibre tent before (Zpacks Duplex) but found it too bulky from a bikepacking perspective. That is it didn't pack down as well as a silnylon tent. Pity really as I otherwise liked it and the concept. Now off to check out the Tarptent 

Very see-thru


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## Smudge (24 Apr 2020)

Depends what you want to spend, cheap or expensive
At the cheaper end, i saw this on HUKD. Doesn't look bad for the price.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Eurohike-Backpacker-Deluxe-Tent/332549675128


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## mudsticks (24 Apr 2020)

Aushiker said:


> No, I didn't know that. I have had Cuban fibre tent before (Zpacks Duplex) but found it too bulky from a bikepacking perspective. That is it didn't pack down as well as a silnylon tent. Pity really as I otherwise liked it and the concept. Now off to check out the Tarptent



Ooops sorry. 

I personally prefer the stuffability of silnylon myself. 

But you can't beat DCF for weight. 
Anyway, if we want to wibble on about that we should probs start another thread.. Apologies OP


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## alicat (24 Apr 2020)

Definitely a case of you can only have two of light / cheap / strong. Tell us which two you favour and we can better help you.


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## jay clock (24 Apr 2020)

I have learnt what matters to me based on trial and error. Personally I have an MSR Hubba Hubba NX. 2 person but huge for one. Stealth green, can be pitched free standing and either withe just inner or just outer. And pretty light for its size. They also do a smaller one person version.
https://www.elitemountainsupplies.c...1jwrQThxD0zetghI29tVm6WU-oSS5DRhoCd8IQAvD_BwE


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## jay clock (24 Apr 2020)

oh, and it is light and strong but not cheap!


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## snorri (24 Apr 2020)

citybabe said:


> Looking for some tent recommendations please. What’s ideal for 3-4 day touring?


I started cycle camping with a second hand tent that I picked up at an outdoor exhibition. I probably learned more about tents, what I wanted and didn't want, from that initial purchase than from all the advice I received from various sources.
After a time I went on to buy a new tent from the Terra Nova range, and eventually a second tent from that range. However they were not cheap!


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## jay clock (24 Apr 2020)

Smudge said:


> Depends what you want to spend, cheap or expensive
> At the cheaper end, i saw this on HUKD. Doesn't look bad for the price.
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Eurohike-Backpacker-Deluxe-Tent/332549675128


looks ok but weighs 2.9kg. That is pretty heavy


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## jay clock (24 Apr 2020)

Oh and one of the best things about the MSR Hubba Hubba is the packing up.. The bag is superbly designed ("bathtub design") and amazingly easy to pack unlike a lot of others. And the length when packed fits easily inside and Ortlieb


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## Blue Hills (24 Apr 2020)

mudsticks said:


> Ooops sorry.
> 
> I personally prefer the stuffability of silnylon myself.
> 
> ...


Folks feel free to start another thread on tent material.
Have always been confused about this and what the various properties/pros and cons of each are. Have several tents but must admit i don't even know what they are - had better find out in case I face repairs in the future.


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## Smudge (24 Apr 2020)

jay clock said:


> looks ok but weighs 2.9kg. That is pretty heavy



Yes, the weight is a downside for cycle touring/camping. But OP doesn't state if he wants cheap or expensive, cheap will always have a weight penalty.


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## Cycleops (24 Apr 2020)

I can see this turning into a ‘how much of the handle should I cut off my toothbrush’ type thread


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## Moodyman (24 Apr 2020)

jay clock said:


> oh, and it is light and strong but not cheap!



Is the groundsheet supplied by MSR strong enough on its own or would you recommend a hardier groundsheet for better protection. I was leaning towards the Elixir 2. Weight not a big concern so happy to go stronger.


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## citybabe (24 Apr 2020)

mudsticks said:


> Campsite?
> 
> Or wildcamping?
> 
> ...



I would probably start with a campsite tour 

No I don’t get claustrophobic 

I’d happily pay a bit more for a good tent


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## citybabe (24 Apr 2020)

alicat said:


> Definitely a case of you can only have two of light / cheap / strong. Tell us which two you favour and we can better help you.



I’m happy to pay a little more for a good tent so I’ll go for light and strong


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## Blue Hills (24 Apr 2020)

Moodyman said:


> Is the groundsheet supplied by MSR strong enough on its own or would you recommend a hardier groundsheet for better protection. I was leaning towards the Elixir 2. Weight not a big concern so happy to go stronger.


I'd be amazed if the groundsheet was up to being used by itself. Not at all common on modern tents. I use a B&Q blue thing cost a fiver on all my tents. It does have metal grommits on it though - always concerned that these will catch something - really need something without any metal.


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## Blue Hills (24 Apr 2020)

citybabe said:


> I would probably start with a campsite tour
> 
> No I don’t get claustrophobic
> 
> I’d happily pay a bit more for a good tent


Once you know what you want, I'd consider this:

https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/robens....google_uk.254044867.25884866587.104604046507

Great tent. Roomy enough. Great double porch arrangement for junk. Free standing. Doesn't really need the guylines - just pegging out. Good for wildcamping if you progress to that. Sits ontop of a rack just fine and dandy.


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## mudsticks (24 Apr 2020)

Aushiker said:


> No, I didn't know that. I have had Cuban fibre tent before (Zpacks Duplex) but found it too bulky from a bikepacking perspective. That is it didn't pack down as well as a silnylon tent. Pity really as I otherwise liked it and the concept. Now off to check out the Tarptent
> 
> Very see-thru




The see thruness and rustliness of DCF are two other downsides, to the fabric. 

I think unless you're going uberlight I probs wouldn't bother for bikepacking. 

For backpacking.. Maybee, but still not ventured down that very expensive route yet. 



citybabe said:


> I’m happy to pay a little more for a good tent so I’ll go for light and strong



Good plan, so you will pay more, question is how much more??


Plus there is ease of erection. 

Even on a campsite you don't want to be faffing, when you're tired after a longish day in the saddle. 

And unless you're in Socal, rain can always be an issue. 

Personally I'd not go for inner pitch first.


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## HobbesOnTour (24 Apr 2020)

mudsticks said:


> If you've not cycle camped before probs go for cheaper first, and see if you like it before you commit to anything spendier.



This is the best bit of advice so far. 
You will learn so much about what is important to *you* in a tent. 
If you're going to be mainly campsite camping you'll get to see lots of ideas "in the wild".

As to size, I'd always say to go a size up, so a two man for a solo camper.

If at all possible, try before you buy. Get in, crawl around, lie down. 

Good luck!


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## mudsticks (24 Apr 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> This is the best bit of advice so far.
> You will learn so much about what is important to *you* in a tent.
> If you're going to be mainly campsite camping you'll get to see lots of ideas "in the wild".
> 
> ...



Well if you can fit in two men as well that's proper roomy 

It's definitely nice to have the extra interior space if your spending more time than just sleeping in there. 

Or if like me, you're a bit of an untidy Camper, it helps to be able sort stuff out. 

And a decent sized porch if you're taking a stove. 

Oh dear - so many things to think about..


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## jay clock (24 Apr 2020)

Moodyman said:


> Is the groundsheet supplied by MSR strong enough on its own or would you recommend a hardier groundsheet for better protection. I was leaning towards the Elixir 2. Weight not a big concern so happy to go stronger.


The link I posted from Elite Mountain Supplies has a deal including a free footprint. Although I have that for a few grams more I uses a 6'x4' groundsheet from a hardware store that is quite a bit tougher. You definitely do need something under the tent floor in my view


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## MichaelW2 (24 Apr 2020)

I started with a Gelhert Solo. V good value, suitable for summer euro tours. The original glass fibre poles cracked and Gelhert replaced them free of charge. 
Handles rain and moderate wind ok.
V cramped, no headroom, not good if you have to stay inside due to heavy rain.

My current tent purchased for multi month touring was Hilleberg Akto+footprint, the best solo tent of its day but heavy by modern standards. V good in dangerous high winds. Ventilation always an issue so works better in wind. Not my 1st choice for hot still nights.
Easy to pitch, pleasant to stay in but you cant really cook in the tent.


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## F70100 (24 Apr 2020)

@citybabe I recommend this one to get you started. If you decide to buy another larger/smaller/lighter/bigger tent later you'll probably get back what you paid for it.


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## mudsticks (24 Apr 2020)

F70100 said:


> @citybabe I recommend this one to get you started. If you decide to buy another larger/smaller/lighter/bigger tent later you'll probably get back what you paid for it.



Yes not a bad place to start. 

As @F70100 says you'd be able to sell it on, for not much loss, if you spot something more to your tastes . 

Pretty solid, lots of bike tourers use them. 

Personally I prefer a side loader, and two porches, even just for liddle (5'10") ol me. 

But that's just a personal quirk. 

Something about sunsets / sunrises, wind direction, and escape routes. 

You'll develop your own shelter peculiarities and peccadillos, as time goes on


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## Crankarm (24 Apr 2020)

citybabe said:


> I’m happy to pay a little more for a good tent so I’ll go for light and strong



It's that time of year again.

How much more? Still pretty vague or there is no upper limit for budget or what you are really prepared to spend doesn't matter?

How about over £510 for Nordisk Telemark 1 Carbon ULW, 756g ,
£510 for a Terra Nova Solar Photon 2, 822g,
£380 for an MSR Hubba Hubba NX, 1610g
£330 for a Hubba NX £330, 1124g,
£205 for a Vango Helium F10 UL 1P, 1066g
£120 for a Vango Banshee, 2.2kg
or £40 for an Argos cheapie, 3+kg?


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## Andy in Germany (24 Apr 2020)

This may be helpful:


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## Crankarm (24 Apr 2020)

£110, 2kg, https://www.decathlon.co.uk/quickhiker-ultralight-2-hiking-tent-2-man-grey-id_8245650.html


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## citybabe (24 Apr 2020)

Crankarm said:


> It's that time of year again.
> 
> How much more? Still pretty vague or there is no upper limit for budget or what you are really prepared to spend doesn't matter?
> 
> ...



Thanks. I like the look of the Vango Banshee and Helium too. 
I’d happily pay up to £200 for a tent but probably couldn’t justify anything more at the moment


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## Crankarm (24 Apr 2020)

citybabe said:


> Thanks. I like the look of the Vango Banshee and Helium too.
> I’d happily pay up to £200 for a tent but probably couldn’t justify anything more at the moment



Cool, this should narrow the choice and hopefully you should get something suitable for you from the suggestions you have already received and perhaps any more that are offered. You might consider second hand as well. You might pick up a bargain, although shops will be trying to offload stock now so likely bargains to be had in stores as well.

Vango tents are good solid tents, perhaps not the lightest, but dependable. Try to go for a tent with alloy or DAC or similar poles. Around the 2 kg mark weight wise or just under you should get something. MSR do the Elixir 1 which is around £180-185 and is pretty good.

Decathlon does good basic tents. The Quickhiker UL 2kg I linked to above for £110 seems pretty good although I've not used one let alone seen one in the flesh. They have a 2 year warranty on all their items. You might be able to see it up in one of their stores when they re-open.

Good luck.


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## newfhouse (24 Apr 2020)

citybabe said:


> Thanks. I like the look of the Vango Banshee and Helium too.
> I’d happily pay up to £200 for a tent but probably couldn’t justify anything more at the moment


I bought a secondhand Banshee 200 a few years ago for £45 and have used it for several summer tours from Scandinavia to the Med. One day I’ll upgrade, but really it does everything I need well enough. As others have said, there’s no harm in getting a short tour under your belt with something cheap and getting a feel for what suits long term.


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## jay clock (24 Apr 2020)

That Decathlon one looks good and decent weight


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## jay clock (24 Apr 2020)

Moodyman said:


> Is the groundsheet supplied by MSR strong enough on its own or would you recommend a hardier groundsheet for better protection. I was leaning towards the Elixir 2. Weight not a big concern so happy to go stronger.


The MSR groundsheet is fine, but less tough than a cheap hardware store one.


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## Jerry Atrik (24 Apr 2020)

Alpkit Soloist , love mine for bikepacking.


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## freiston (26 Apr 2020)

I have a Vango Mirage Pro which is really stable in bad weather and can be pitched before being pegged to the ground - which is not only handy for adjusting your position but is really useful for drying it off before packing it - I can turn it round to get both sides in the sun and I can tip it on its side to dry the groundsheet off too. It is on the heavy side and the porch isn't very big.


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## COYS (26 Apr 2020)

Jerry Atrik said:


> Alpkit Soloist , love mine for bikepacking.



Very lightweight and packs nice and small. I'm going for one of these once lockdown is over


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## Vantage (26 Apr 2020)

Could I recommend the Wild Country Zephyros 2 Compact? 
1.96kg for about £100 depending on where you look. 
It goes up all in one and has the one main pole dead in the middle of the tent. That helped mine stay in one piece during a test during Storm Ciara and believe me, it took one hell of a battering that night! The 2 end poles are glass fibre unless you're lucky enough to find a 2019 version in which they're alloy. 
Both sides of the tent open up and the porch side has a full length opening inner door. Vents which can be opened and closed at each end of the tent give good ventilation. Tent pegs are hefty but lightweight alloy V type. 
It does have its issues such as little porch space although the one person version has a much bigger porch. It uses the same size outer tent. Waking up I find that I scrape my head on the inner because the ends are so low but I can sit up OK in the middle of the tent. 
It's not a bad wee tent to be honest.


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## mudsticks (27 Apr 2020)

This is my current touring tent.
A tarptent moment.
As you can see just enough room for one - no space for any extra men - but just enough for your stuff, even if you're untidy like me.

I usually leave my panniers on the bike - the thinking being that if they've survived the rain in the daytime they can do the same at night.
I keep everything that needs to be properly dry - sleeping bag, clothes, epectricals etc in dry bags anyhow.
The rest of the things have to take their chances.
This shelter comes in at just over 1kg, and slightly upwards of £200 - esp if you have to pay import duty from The States.
But very quick to erect - vital in poor weather, or if you arrive late.

I used to tour with its slightly larger, and roomier sister the Scarp.. Which is heavier too - but pretty bombproof - if I was going for more than a couple of weeks - in unreliable weather I might take that again.
But just for a few nights at a time, this size is fine.

I'm afraid nowadays with the advent of last minute cheap online booking, if the weather is truly awful on the road, I'll take advantage of any local hospitality available.

This isn't a mountain weather resistant tent - but that's ok - there are other tents available for that kind of behaviour.


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## jay clock (27 Apr 2020)

Vantage said:


> Could I recommend the Wild Country Zephyros 2 Compact?
> 1.96kg for about £100 depending on where you look.
> It goes up all in one and has the one main pole dead in the middle of the tent. That helped mine stay in one piece during a test during Storm Ciara and believe me, it took one hell of a battering that night! The 2 end poles are glass fibre unless you're lucky enough to find a 2019 version in which they're alloy.
> Both sides of the tent open up and the porch side has a full length opening inner door. Vents which can be opened and closed at each end of the tent give good ventilation. Tent pegs are hefty but lightweight alloy V type.
> ...


i had a similar version called the Wild Country Zephyros 2 Lite (no longer on new market( 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYDkzkbXJpM
- different material and a friend had the non ultralight version but my impression was his version was a) less breathable and b) his main pole was longer when folded and would not fit in an Ortlieb pannier (mine did). Also the end poles on mine were aluminium. I cable tied them into place and rolled up with the tent.


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## snorri (27 Apr 2020)

jay clock said:


> Although I have that for a few grams more I uses a 6'x4' groundsheet from a hardware store that is quite a bit tougher. You definitely do need something under the tent floor in my view


A separate ground sheet can come in handy for the summer thunder plumps, it can be rigged up to a fence or tree very quickly to make a temporary rain shelter.


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## Vantage (27 Apr 2020)

jay clock said:


> i had a similar version called the Wild Country Zephyros 2 Lite (no longer on new market(
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYDkzkbXJpM
> - different material and a friend had the non ultralight version but my impression was his version was a) less breathable and b) his main pole was longer when folded and would not fit in an Ortlieb pannier (mine did). Also the end poles on mine were aluminium. I cable tied them into place and rolled up with the tent.




Wild Country (Terra Nova) seem to be one of those companies that actually listen to their customers. 
There were quiet a few complaints about condensation and pack size on the earlier Zephyros tents. They made what I can only describe as a cutaway on the ends of the tents to aid ventilation. Seems to have worked as mine has been bone dry after campouts so far. The end poles were made to fold in half too so the tents pack size was reduced. It's about 30cm/12" now in length hence the 'compact'. 
Some folk aren't keen on the fact that it doesn't use a bathtub design in the groundsheet but I'd say if the water is so deep that it's coming up the sides of the tent, then the camper has bigger issues to worry about.


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## mudsticks (27 Apr 2020)

Vantage said:


> Wild Country (Terra Nova) seem to be one of those companies that actually listen to their customers.
> There were quiet a few complaints about condensation and pack size on the earlier Zephyros tents. They made what I can only describe as a cutaway on the ends of the tents to aid ventilation. Seems to have worked as mine has been bone dry after campouts so far. The end poles were made to fold in half too so the tents pack size was reduced. It's about 30cm/12" now in length hence the 'compact'.
> Some folk aren't keen on the fact that it doesn't use a bathtub design in the groundsheet but I'd say if the water is so deep that it's coming up the sides of the tent, then the camper has bigger issues to worry about.



You can still get bounce back from heavy blowing rain that lands under the edge of the fly which then soaks the inner tent walls if they are absorbant. 

I think it's also useful having that seam, between groundsheet and sidewalls - particularly if they are part mesh - above ground level to reduce abrasion to that join too. 

It wouldn't be an absolute deal breaker for me, if everything else about a shelter was perfect, but I think bathtub groundsheets are that way generally for good reason. 

Good venting is also pretty key in a tent too imo. 

Nobody wants to be cooped up in a soggy coffin.


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## oldwheels (27 Apr 2020)

mudsticks said:


> You can still get bounce back from heavy blowing rain that lands under the edge of the fly which then soaks the inner tent walls if they are absorbant.
> 
> I think it's also useful having that seam, between groundsheet and sidewalls - particularly if they are part mesh - above ground level to reduce abrasion to that join too.
> 
> ...


I stopped overnight behind the toilet block at Lochboisdale to wait for the early ferry to Oban. It rained heavily overnight and I wakened in a bathtub with everything soaked. Good job I was getting on a warm ferry to get my clothes dried out a bit and I was heading for home anyway. I thought it best also to get my wife to drive down to Craignure to collect me. The tent was a cheapo one from Lidl and the wind blew the rain under the flysheet.


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## RoMeR (10 May 2020)

citybabe said:


> Looking for some tent recommendations please.
> What’s ideal for 3-4 day touring?
> 
> It would be just me inside it so would I need just a 1 person tent or 2 persons for a little extra space?


Have you had a look at AliExpress, loads of good, cheap lightweight shelters. A lot of lightweight backpackers use the site with no complaints, only drawback is shipping time from China. Ive recently ordered a tarp and shipping is 20 to 40 days.


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## mike chadwick (10 May 2020)

Just orderd a wild country Helm 1 looks to have a lot of room for a 1 man tent
was initially attracted by the short pack size which will allow me to use smaller
Panniers.


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## jay clock (11 May 2020)

mike chadwick said:


> Just orderd a wild country Helm 1 looks to have a lot of room for a 1 man tent
> was initially attracted by the short pack size which will allow me to use smaller
> Panniers.


does look nice and small. I had a Wild Country Zephyros 2 UL and was a nice tent..


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## citybabe (11 May 2020)

Thanks for all your replies and recommendations guys. 

When the lockdown is eased I will have a look at the Vango Banshee. 
There’s a couple of outlets my way that sells the tent. 

I’m pretty sure this is the one I’ll go for.

Thanks again


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## Tom B (11 May 2020)

A friend of mine has an Alpkit Ordos 2 which he uses regularly and and I have borrowed on one occasion. Mate speaks highly of it and he knows his stuff. From my POV it kept me dry and warm.

I quite fancy the Alpkit Jarran when it's back in stock and SWMBO releases funds.

As others have said a tarp/ extra groundsheet is a good idea. From a bit of extra protection to keeping your tent clean or covering up your bike /kit. My mate is the man who has everything and probably has something from an outdoor kit manufacturer costing the same as a bungalow in Burnley. I'm much more frugal and just use a big tarpaulin from Toolstation that cost a couple of quid. They're not heavy and well worth it, just peg down with pegs*.

* Have a mooch around campsites for pegs or ask at reception. I've got quite a collection of lightweight pegs I've found stuck in the ground. Found a set in the local woods where some homeless had been staying... Win win


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## jay clock (11 May 2020)

Tom B said:


> A friend of mine has an Alpkit Ordos 2 which he uses regularly and and I have borrowed on one occasion. Mate speaks highly of it and he knows his stuff. From my POV it kept me dry and warm.
> 
> I quite fancy the Alpkit Jarran when it's back in stock and SWMBO releases funds.
> 
> ...


A friend of mine has the ALpkit Ordos 2 and gives rave reviews


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## Blue Hills (11 May 2020)

Tom B said:


> I'm much more frugal and just use a big tarpaulin from Toolstation that cost a couple of quid.


I use a tarp from B&Q - cost a bit more - thanks for the Toolstation tip - one down the road from me.

But checked it out and like mine it seems to have metal grommets -I am always worried that these will tear the tent and I have no use for them anyway as I just use the tarp under the tent.

Does anyone know any cheap tarps without metal inserts?


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## jay clock (11 May 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> I use a tarp from B&Q - cost a bit more - thanks for the Toolstation tip - one down the road from me.
> 
> But checked it out and like mine it seems to have metal grommets -I am always worried that these will tear the tent and I have no use for them anyway as I just use the tarp under the tent.
> 
> Does anyone know any cheap tarps without metal inserts?


i can't see how the grommets would damage the tent. Particularly since they are in the far corners where you will put no pressure on them. Certainly zero issue for me


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## RoMeR (11 May 2020)

citybabe said:


> Thanks for all your replies and recommendations guys.
> 
> When the lockdown is eased I will have a look at the Vango Banshee.
> There’s a couple of outlets my way that sells the tent.
> ...


The Banshee is not a lightweight tent, but it is good. Have you considered a tarp?. DD Hammocks do a 3x3m at around 720g and costs about £35,loads of space.


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## Gravity Aided (11 May 2020)

Main reason I don't have grommets is because I find it easier to tie off to the loops on my non-grommet tarp. But I use a rather large tent for full on shelter overnight. The tarp is mainly for short trips and day tours.


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## Tom B (11 May 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> I use a tarp from B&Q - cost a bit more - thanks for the Toolstation tip - one down the road from me.
> 
> But checked it out and like mine it seems to have metal grommets -I am always worried that these will tear the tent and I have no use for them anyway as I just use the tarp under the tent.
> 
> Does anyone know any cheap tarps without metal inserts?



I find Toolstation to be cheaper for most things, quality can be iffy on some stuff but they have a no quibble exchange/returns policy. They're also getting with the quality goods too and in many cases offering something cheap and something good.

My big big tarp has three brass eyelets one has been lost at some point. I've just totted it up and it's spent the best part of 4 months under my big carboot camping tent on about 10 camping trips over 4 of 5 years. There is no issue with it wearing the underside of the tent. The biggest issue seems to be UV damage to the tent upper and weeping seems (local tent god suggests rubbing a candle over the seams). One of those two things will kill the tent in the end.

On most occasions the eyelets are just out from under the tent.

If it is an issue for you just pull/cut/cover the eyelets


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## uphillstruggler (11 May 2020)

I use a big blue tarp under our family tent, it protrudes on all sides but gets folded up under the fly to ensure water runs under that too, does two jobs that way


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## Andy in Germany (12 May 2020)

I've been checking the rules here: apparently it is okay to camp if you have permission from the owner, and there are some places in the Black Forest where you can wild camp. Otherwise it is technically illegal to use an "enclosed shelter" i.e. a tent to sleep overnight, but a tarp is open, so it theoretically isn't illegal. Gotta love German exactitude...

Has anyone here wild camped in Germany?


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## Baldy (12 May 2020)

Yes, out of sight is out of mind.


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## Broadside (3 Jun 2020)

The Vango Banshee does look good as a starter. Millets have a one day sale today on the Eurohike 2 man tent, down to £55.

It’s a bit heavier and the design is not as fast to pitch (inner and outer are done separately) but it is cheap. I’m thinking about it myself for very occasional use.


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## uphillstruggler (3 Jun 2020)

Broadside said:


> The Vango Banshee does look good as a starter. Millets have a one day sale today on the Eurohike 2 man tent, down to £55.
> 
> It’s a bit heavier and the design is not as fast to pitch (inner and outer are done separately) but it is cheap. I’m thinking about it myself for very occasional use.



that looks quite similar to the ARK DS i have although mine is too big to be loading onto a rack and riding around with. it is very spacious though with decent features


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## RoMeR (3 Jun 2020)

Broadside said:


> The Vango Banshee does look good as a starter. Millets have a one day sale today on the Eurohike 2 man tent, down to £55.
> 
> It’s a bit heavier and the design is not as fast to pitch (inner and outer are done separately) but it is cheap. I’m thinking about it myself for very occasional use.


You may find that you will be able to pitch inner and fly together once clipped together


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## Tom B (4 Jun 2020)

Rmr25 said:


> You may find that you will be able to pitch inner and fly together once clipped together



Id never thought of that. Just tried it with my Vango 4 man tent (it was up already for fabsilling) of unknown name. Works well and is quicker. Doesn't pack away quite as well, but still goes in the (wrong) bag.


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## RoMeR (4 Jun 2020)

I've pitched all the tents I've had over the years as one, so much easier, especially in bad conditions. I now use a tarp, more room and even easier to pitch.


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## HelenD123 (4 Jun 2020)

Rmr25 said:


> I've pitched all the tents I've had over the years as one, so much easier, especially in bad conditions. I now use a tarp, more room and even easier to pitch.



I've been afraid to do that in case packing it away when the outer is wet makes the inner wet too. Have you found that?


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## RoMeR (4 Jun 2020)

HelenD123 said:


> I've been afraid to do that in case packing it away when the outer is wet makes the inner wet too. Have you found that?


When wet I fold the tent in half with the fly outside and then roll to the size to fit the bag, never had a problem in over 40 yrs. Now I use a tarp, so much easier when you get used to it, the way to go imo


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## andrew_s (5 Jun 2020)

HelenD123 said:


> I've been afraid to do that in case packing it away when the outer is wet makes the inner wet too. Have you found that?


As Rmr25 said, it's not difficult to fold and roll the tent so the weather doesn't get at the inner, any more than it does when putting up the tent at the end of the day. I collapse the tent flat, outer on top, fold the tent longways, outer to outer, with the groundsheet exposed, then roll.

If the inner does get wet, it will be from condensation on the inside of the outer. If there's much, I devote a few minutes to wiping it off before taking the tent down (wipe and wring, usually with a J-cloth that lives in the peg bag).


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## HelenD123 (5 Jun 2020)

andrew_s said:


> As Rmr25 said, it's not difficult to fold and roll the tent so the weather doesn't get at the inner, any more than it does when putting up the tent at the end of the day. I collapse the tent flat, outer on top, fold the tent longways, outer to outer, with the groundsheet exposed, then roll.
> 
> If the inner does get wet, it will be from condensation on the inside of the outer. If there's much, I devote a few minutes to wiping it off before taking the tent down (wipe and wring, usually with a J-cloth that lives in the peg bag).


Thanks. Will give it a try, if were ever allowed out overnight again!


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## RoMeR (5 Jun 2020)

andrew_s said:


> As Rmr25 said, it's not difficult to fold and roll the tent so the weather doesn't get at the inner, any more than it does when putting up the tent at the end of the day. I collapse the tent flat, outer on top, fold the tent longways, outer to outer, with the groundsheet exposed, then roll.
> 
> If the inner does get wet, it will be from condensation on the inside of the outer. If there's much, I devote a few minutes to wiping it off before taking the tent down (wipe and wring, usually with a J-cloth that lives in the peg bag).


The J cloth is a good idea, forgot to mention it, surprising how much difference it makes.


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## clid61 (5 Jun 2020)

Banshee 200 and tarp, or bivvy and tarp


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## albal (11 Jun 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> I've been checking the rules here: apparently it is okay to camp if you have permission from the owner, and there are some places in the Black Forest where you can wild camp. Otherwise it is technically illegal to use an "enclosed shelter" i.e. a tent to sleep overnight, but a tarp is open, so it theoretically isn't illegal. Gotta love German exactitude...
> 
> Has anyone here wild camped in Germany?


Yes


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## dnrc (11 Jun 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> I've been checking the rules here: apparently it is okay to camp if you have permission from the owner, and there are some places in the Black Forest where you can wild camp. Otherwise it is technically illegal to use an "enclosed shelter" i.e. a tent to sleep overnight, but a tarp is open, so it theoretically isn't illegal. Gotta love German exactitude...
> 
> Has anyone here wild camped in Germany?



I have too, and in Switzerland


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## Baldy (12 Jun 2020)

I use a Trekkertent Phreeranger http://www.trekkertent.com/home/home/32-phreeranger.html

Plenty of room for one, lightweight and packs down to a small size, so easy to fit into panniers. He's just a one man operation and he also has a day job, so you have to allow plenty of time between ordering and it arriving. Their very well made once they do.


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## Fram (12 Jun 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> I've been checking the rules here: apparently it is okay to camp if you have permission from the owner, and there are some places in the Black Forest where you can wild camp. Otherwise it is technically illegal to use an "enclosed shelter" i.e. a tent to sleep overnight, but a tarp is open, so it theoretically isn't illegal. Gotta love German exactitude...
> 
> Has anyone here wild camped in Germany?


Yes, but just the odd night tucked out of sight.


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## robing (14 Jun 2020)

jay clock said:


> I have learnt what matters to me based on trial and error. Personally I have an MSR Hubba Hubba NX. 2 person but huge for one. Stealth green, can be pitched free standing and either withe just inner or just outer. And pretty light for its size. They also do a smaller one person version.
> https://www.elitemountainsupplies.c...1jwrQThxD0zetghI29tVm6WU-oSS5DRhoCd8IQAvD_BwE



I bought this tent but haven't had a chance to try it out for obvious reasons. I also have a Vango Blade 100 which has been a great little tent. My only concern re the Hubba Hubba its size. I like wild camping and I the little Vango had tucked away in some great little places that I know I would struggle to fit a bigger tent. Have you or anyone else found this to be a problem?


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jun 2020)

Baldy said:


> I use a Trekkertent Phreeranger http://www.trekkertent.com/home/home/32-phreeranger.html
> 
> Plenty of room for one, lightweight and packs down to a small size, so easy to fit into panniers. He's just a one man operation and he also has a day job, so you have to allow plenty of time between ordering and it arriving. Their very well made once they do.



That is a copy of the 1980’s Phoenix phreeranger. I guess any copyrights have long expired.


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## jay clock (14 Jun 2020)

robing said:


> I bought this tent but haven't had a chance to try it out for obvious reasons. I also have a Vango Blade 100 which has been a great little tent. My only concern re the Hubba Hubba its size. I like wild camping and I the little Vango had tucked away in some great little places that I know I would struggle to fit a bigger tent. Have you or anyone else found this to be a problem?


it is big but i haven't done any serious stealth camping.


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## jay clock (14 Jun 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> That is a copy of the 1980’s Phoenix phreeranger. I guess any copyrights have long expired.


how much does it weigh


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## Baldy (14 Jun 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> That is a copy of the 1980’s Phoenix phreeranger. I guess any copyrights have long expired.


Yes long ago, it's not an exact copy anyway. It's made of different materials to start with. Silnylon instead of pu coated ripstop nylon.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jun 2020)

jay clock said:


> how much does it weigh



The original (which I have in loft) is about 1.4kg.


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## Baldy (14 Jun 2020)

jay clock said:


> how much does it weigh



1.1kg.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jun 2020)

Baldy said:


> Yes long ago, it's not an exact copy anyway. It's made of different materials to start with. Silnylon instead of pu coated ripstop nylon.



Same pole config and dimensions and inner / outer setup looks pretty much the same. I’ll have to get my original from loft and pitch it to compare.


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## Baldy (14 Jun 2020)

Someone sent him an old phoenix tent and asked if he could make a copy in silnylon. He had a go, liked it and started producing them. There's a few tweaks here and there, but a really good tent. I got mine for backpacking but it's just as good for bike touring.


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## jay clock (14 Jun 2020)

Baldy said:


> 1.1kg.


Impressive


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jun 2020)

Baldy said:


> Someone sent him an old phoenix tent and asked if he could make a copy in silnylon. He had a go, liked it and started producing them. There's a few tweaks here and there, but a really good tent. I got mine for backpacking but it's just as good for bike touring.



It’s a good copy, recognised design straight away. Must get my original down and see how bad it’s deteriorated over the years. Didn’t realise I still had it till my wife mentioned it was up there.


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## freiston (15 Jun 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> It’s a good copy, recognised design straight away. Must get my original down and see how bad it’s deteriorated over the years. Didn’t realise I still had it till my wife mentioned it was up there.


Did you get a sticker with your tent? I got one with the Phoenix Phleece that I won in a magazine competition (the fleece wore out a few years ago after a lot of wear over a decade or more):


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Jun 2020)

freiston said:


> Did you get a sticker with your tent? I got one with the Phoenix Phleece that I won in a magazine competition (the fleece wore out a few years ago after a lot of wear over a decade or more):
> View attachment 530143



We're talking roughly 35 years ago, so I really can't remember about a sticker. It's possible


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## freiston (15 Jun 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> We're talking roughly 35 years ago, so I really can't remember about a sticker. It's possible


Fair dos, I only remember mine because I stuck it on the side of a tin to keep pens in (and still use it for that) 😄


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## citybabe (9 Aug 2020)

Just to add an update to this post I went for a Vango Nevis 200 tent.


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## RoMeR (9 Aug 2020)

citybabe said:


> Just to add an update to this post I went for a Vango Nevis 200 tent.
> 
> View attachment 540573
> 
> ...


Can't go wrong with a Vango, had a Banshee a few years back, bombproof.


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## citybabe (9 Aug 2020)

A little windy on the east Suffolk coast this morning but the tent held fine on the stones. 
The wind does get between the inner and outer so it flaps rather a lot inside but in general I’m very happy with it


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## Blue Hills (9 Aug 2020)

Can i ask where?
Do you use special pegs or devices to grip on those stones?
Any particular reason you like camping on the stony beach rather than somewhere more hidden?
As a local I assume you know the tidal patterns.


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## citybabe (9 Aug 2020)

Rmr25 said:


> Can't go wrong with a Vango, had a Banshee a few years back, bombproof.


I considered a Banshee but went for the Nevis after reading various reviews but to be fair the reviews were very good for both. 
Being very short I can easily sit up inside the Nevis and dress which a taller person may find much more irritating


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## citybabe (9 Aug 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Can i ask where?
> Do you use special pegs or devices to grip on those stones?


I’m camping with friends who supplied the pegs. They are a corkscrew. I’ll post a picture when I take the tent down. I’m sure they are just cheap things from Lidl!


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## Vantage (9 Aug 2020)

That's pretty much identical to my Zephyros 2, except the nevis seems to go up a bit easier. I'm still trying to master that feat and it's taking a good 10 mins. 
Can I ask how tall you are? I'm 5' 4" and when sitting (or trying to sit up) my head scrapes the roof.


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## citybabe (9 Aug 2020)

@Blue Hills
They have like a star attachment which goes on the top to help screw into the ground


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## mattw (29 Aug 2020)

[ATTACH=full]544283[/ATTACH]
*alicat*
Definitely a case of you can only have two of light / cheap / strong. Tell us which two you favour and we can better help you.

This for sure.... I use a Hilleberg Nallo II - definately light and strong but very expensive. Seen off 112 mph winds and carried it on 7800 miles of tours but I am scared because I cant afford to replace it !


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## Fram (6 Sep 2020)

mattw said:


> [ATTACH=full]544283[/ATTACH]
> *alicat*
> Definitely a case of you can only have two of light / cheap / strong. Tell us which two you favour and we can better help you.
> 
> This for sure.... I use a Hilleberg Nallo II - definately light and strong but very expensive. Seen off 112 mph winds and carried it on 7800 miles of tours but I am scared because I cant afford to replace it !


+1 The two of us have made considerable use of our Nallo 3. Excellent, but a one off purchase!


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## HobbesOnTour (8 Sep 2020)

Fram said:


> +1 The two of us have made considerable use of our Nallo 3. Excellent, but a one off purchase!


We're all different and I'd go another way....
I bought an Exped Orion, not in the same range as Hillebergs, but not far off. I was watching a few tents over the course of about a year and pulled the trigger when I saw this one on a special price. Still expensive for me, though.

Having used it on gravel (US) and had a couple of cats on it it has been patched up on the fly and floor. I'll tell you, it's damn annoying finding a cat climbing on your expensive tent! 

If I was looking for a touring tent again I'd go for something cheaper with a view to replacing it when needed. 

By choosing the same model I'd have spare poles/segments and material for patching. 

Then again, it depends where the tent is going to be pitched. Mine gets into some strange places 😄


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## Blue Hills (8 Sep 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> If I was looking for a touring tent again I'd go for something cheaper with a view to replacing it when needed.
> 
> By choosing the same model I'd have spare poles/segments and material for patching.



Agree with this - this is my plan from now on, having found my own near perfect tent.

Of course hobbes we both have to hope, maybe against hope in this world, that the manufacturers of our true love don't change the design of our true love for no other good reason than the slaverings of the marketing department.

Because of this real and present danger I have considered buying a spare of my tent in advance, but I have worries about a tent deteriorating in long-term storage - odd stuff happening to the material etc. I have one old tent which felt curiously sticky on last unpacking it for a check.


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## Moodyman (8 Sep 2020)

As a potential tent newbie, my research suggests tents are not like Carradice saddlebags or Ortlieb panniers, that is buy once and use for the next 30 years.

So, the question for the tent experts...how often do you change your tent due to the end of their useful life?


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## HobbesOnTour (8 Sep 2020)

Moodyman said:


> As a potential tent newbie, my research suggests tents are not like Carradice saddlebags or Ortlieb panniers, that is buy once and use for the next 30 years.
> 
> So, the question for the tent experts...how often do you change your tent due to the end of their useful life?


Well, I haven't had a tent get to end of life - I've given two away with lots of life still in them.

It's really how long is a piece of string question. Someone might use a tent for 2 weeks every year, someone else 100 nights.
The conditions have an impact, some will cancel plans in foul weather, others not. Campsites are probably less wearing than wild spots. 
People's care, maintenance, storage also have an effect as well as their skills in pitching and breaking down. Proximity of stoves to doors, for example can be important too😄

I personally think that the most important thing to do with a tent is to see one in the flesh before purchasing. Crawl around in it. Sit up in it. Simulate all the things you imagine yourself doing to make sure it's comfortable.

I "learned" camping with the cheapest (and heaviest) Coleman tunnel tent. It taught me so much about what was important and not so important for me. The best value in a tent, ever, for me. I still miss it!


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## HobbesOnTour (8 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Agree with this - this is my plan from now on, having found my own near perfect tent.
> 
> Of course hobbes we both have to hope, maybe against hope in this world, that the manufacturers of our true love


Mine is certainly not my true love. I wouldn't buy it again.


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## Vantage (8 Sep 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> People's care, maintenance, storage also have an effect as well as their skills in pitching and breaking down. Proximity of stoves to doors, for example can be important too😄


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## Oldhippy (8 Sep 2020)

I will always get a two man tent for the extra room and sod the extra weight. I secure poles to the frame and roll the rest. I tried a lightweight tepee for a while but the pole was unable to split small enough. Vango and Coleman tents have always been hard wearing in my experience.


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## Blue Hills (8 Sep 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Mine is certainly not my true love. I wouldn't buy it again.


what is the bitch?
forewarn us.


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## Blue Hills (8 Sep 2020)

Oldhippy said:


> I will always get a two man tent for the extra room and sod the extra weight. I secure poles to the frame and roll the rest. I tried a lightweight tepee for a while but the pole was unable to split small enough. Vango and Coleman tents have always been hard wearing in my experience.


yep, have had the odd issue with vango, but generally i think they are excellent - know what they are doing - been in the business long enough - good customer service.
I like the fact that they now do enhanced versions of some of their tried and tested designs. They are a bit heavier of course, but should be no problem for someone on a bike stuffing themselves with pasta etc every evening.

ditto good marks for coleman.


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## HobbesOnTour (8 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> what is the bitch?
> forewarn us.


Exped Orion


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## Blue Hills (8 Sep 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Exped Orion


what's the problem with it?
exped as in maker of suspiciously light mats?
If so I didn't even know they had ventured into tents.


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## HobbesOnTour (8 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> what's the problem with it?
> exped as in maker of suspiciously light mats?
> If so I didn't even know they had ventured into tents.


From the chat thread


> Not the lightest, especially since I added the footprint and extra pegs for different conditions.
> 
> It's what I refer to as a "Smart" tent and it's quite possible it's too smart for me!
> My biggest issue is that one side is longer than the other (by design) which makes it difficult to pitch one side tautly.
> ...


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## Blue Hills (8 Sep 2020)

thanks hobbes.

after all your experience, I'd be interested in your personal check/wishlist for a touring tent.

apologies if you have posted this already.


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Sep 2020)

I have a tent from the 80’s still going. Reproof it every so often. Store it in a the dark in loft.


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## MontyVeda (8 Sep 2020)

Providing you unpack your tent after your trip/tour, clean it and let it dry properly before repacking, it should last until something rips.


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## HelenD123 (8 Sep 2020)

Moodyman said:


> As a potential tent newbie, my research suggests tents are not like Carradice saddlebags or Ortlieb panniers, that is buy once and use for the next 30 years.
> 
> So, the question for the tent experts...how often do you change your tent due to the end of their useful life?


I'm still using the tent I took to Canada 10 years ago, although it's only been out for a few nights a year since. One of the zips needs replacing but it's fine otherwise. I do look at other tents as I wish the poles were shorter and fitted on my rear rack better but really it's fine.


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## HobbesOnTour (8 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> what's the problem with it?
> exped as in maker of suspiciously light mats?
> If so I didn't even know they had ventured into tents.


My understanding is that they started with tents


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## HobbesOnTour (8 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> thanks hobbes.
> 
> after all your experience, I'd be interested in your personal check/wishlist for a touring tent.
> 
> apologies if you have posted this already.


Honestly? My opinion is that what someone thinks doesn't matter a lot for me and my tent. The trick is to know what you're buying, why you're buying it and what you're missing by buying it.

My current Exped was bought for an expedition. It was going to be my shelter, my refuge, my home for up to two years, maybe longer. 

For that it had to be big enough, strong enough and be able to be used freestanding. 

Random thoughts in no particular order;
Coffin tents are not for me. I like comfort (and my sanity) and would always go a size up.
I want a sheltered porch that I can cook in. 


Tent design. 
I like tunnels. There's a lot of space. The better ones have porches that are usable in foul weather, but only one door is a disadvantage. I've had great fun putting mine up in high winds, there are some designs I know my tent would blow away!

Tipi design are actually quite good. I really liked mine, but it was too small for an expedition and needed pegging out, although it did have several redundancy options - a stick (or even a tree) for a pole, adjustment from inside etc.

I've avoided inner first pitches because of the risk of a rainstorm pitching. The reality is I rarely pitch my all-in-one in the rain. I wait! 

Easily detached inners are a great way of increasing space under cover when not sleeping. (My inner detaches and can be used without the fly - in theory. The reality is that's so impractical as to be useless).

I prefer two doors for ventilation, storage and access.

For materials, I'd avoid a silnylon tent (except a tipi design). It sags. A lot. And subsequently contracts. On the Exped, the combination of a "flappy" side and significant sagging is not a happy combination. In a tipi it can be adjusted by raising (or lowering) the pole.
The material on my old Coleman was (nylon, I think) as tough as old boots and very forgiving for this beginner. It sagged only when absolutely soaking and the design was so simple the outer never touched the inner. 

Some people want something as light as possible.
Others want something big enough for their bike to be inside too.
Some want the strongest, most bulletproof thing and some just want the cheapest. Nobody's wrong. 

If I could have made my old Coleman freestanding I probably never would have looked at another.

I seriously considered bringing two tents on my travels - my Hexpeak (tipi) and an AliExpress freestanding. I figured all bases were covered. It would have been lighter than my current set up! 

As I said above, crawl in one before you buy. Go places and see what other people are using. Have a good think about what you need, want and would like. Then go looking for what's out there. Looking first would just flummox me! 

A penultimate thought for anyone starting off. Speaking for myself, my touring has evolved a little bit from where I started, a luggage service carrying my gear from hotel to hotel, to a little bit more adventurous.😊 I really hadn't a clue of the freedom to be enjoyed on a bike. I only bought a tent because I couldn't afford hotels on a longer trip. If I had bought gear (Ortliebs excepted) at the start based on what I _thought_ I'd be doing I'd have been putting a limit on future experiences.

Whatever you choose know that something is going to happen that you never thought about - you just have to be able to remain calm and gently usher the cat away.


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## Profpointy (8 Sep 2020)

Moodyman said:


> As a potential tent newbie, my research suggests tents are not like Carradice saddlebags or Ortlieb panniers, that is buy once and use for the next 30 years.
> 
> So, the question for the tent experts...how often do you change your tent due to the end of their useful life?



I've had five over the years (cripes, 40 years !). Probably used each for between two and four weeks each year I had them. My first was only a step up over a kid's play tent, though was double skin. Paid a tenner for it secondhand in 1980. It did me good service summer camping for a couple of years and kept me fairly dry. Bought something better when I started camping in Scotland in winter. This was a low to medium grade mountaineering tent and that got a lot of use over maybe 15+ years. An Ultimate Horizon transverse tunnel if I remember rightly. Eventually the groundsheet started leaking and the poles had a lot of black tape on them to keep the fibreglass ferrules together. I recall a winter night in Glencoe when the wind was blowing the tent flat on our legs then it was pinging up again. I didn't think it'd survive but it did. I was very impressed. I think Ultimate have gone by the wayside sadly. Mu next one was a Wild Country 3 season tent. It was a better design than the Ultimate but unfortunately the groundsheet leaked which I didn't notice straight away since my first couple of trips where in the summer. Wild Country claimed they'd replace the groundsheet - but it still leaked next time I used it on wet ground, by which time another 6 months had passed. I've doubts they did actually did anything and think they just fobbed me off. Not impressed! They do have a good reputation, but I guess mine was a dud.

After a lot of pondering and dithering I bought a Hilleberg. It is fantastic in every and very hard to fault. I went for their 2 man two porch (one extended) Kaitum 2GT. It is very roomy for 2, has withstood foul weather, in good weather can go up in 2 minutes with only 4 pegs, which admittedly is a bit minimalist, but there's another dozen for bad weather. I even bought the lighter Nallo 2 single porch subsequently for a backpacking trip. I retrospect I'd likely get the Kaitum 2 two porch without the huge extended porch and not bother with the 2nd lightweight tent - the big porch on mine is nice though. Fantastic though the H's are they are brutally expensive, significantly more so than when I bought mine. I reckon between them they'll see me out.

The above is nearly 40 years' worth of tenting with maybe 2 to 4 weeks' equivalent total use annually, perhaps less so as I've got older, ironically now I have the best and dearest tents I've ever owned


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## Profpointy (8 Sep 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> Providing you unpack your tent after your trip/tour, clean it and let it dry properly before repacking, it should last until something rips.



^ this.

There's an account of my university caving club and various hangers on going on a trip to France in the minibus. People were complaining on the way down about a manky smell all blaming each other's caving kit. Anyhow they got to the campsite in the Jura and started putting their tents up. My
mate tipped his tend out of its bag and out poured the metal poles and some rags and a load of slime. It seems he'd put it away wet last time he'd used it a couple of years previously. I think it was an old cotton Vango which really isn't going to thrive in such conditions, however good those old Vangos may have been looked after properly.


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## Blue Hills (9 Sep 2020)

Thanks for your long post upthread @HobbesOnTour 
yes, really  am always interested in exprienced folks opinions/hard-won knowledge.
Just a question - you say you like tunnel tents and also free standing tents.
I thought tunnel tents tended to not be freestanding?
I do have a tunnel tent - Vango Spirit 200+ - nice tent but it won't stand up by itself - needs a fair bit of guying.
My Robens Lodge 2 on the other hand has never been guyed, despite having sat through a government listed storm. It's essentially geodesic.


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## HobbesOnTour (10 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Just a question - you say you like tunnel tents and also free standing tents.



I didn't.



> My current Exped was bought for an expedition. ........
> For that it had to be big enough, strong enough and be able to be used freestanding.



and



> Random thoughts in no particular order;.....
> I like tunnels.



I bought a tent to do a particular job. Freestanding was a necessity. I have no particular grá for them.
I don't know any freestanding tunnel tents - otherwise I would have bought one!


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## Cymro74 (1 Nov 2020)

I've used Summit Eiger on a few short trips. £40 on eBay. Cheap and cheerful for summer trips.
As a tip, I use cheap tents like this in forestry commission areas to keep the wind off. Not the best for exposed sites like beaches.


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## Harril (30 Dec 2020)

I'll most probably opt for one of the tent's in the links below. I was wondering if anyone here has any thoughts/experience of these?

https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/15980942/oex-bobcat-1-person-tent-15980942
https://www.blacks.co.uk/15980945/oex-phoxx-1v2-tent-15980945
https://www.millets.co.uk/15986984/eurohike-backpacker-deluxe-tent-15986984


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## HobbesOnTour (30 Dec 2020)

Harril said:


> I'll most probably opt for one of the tent's in the links below. I was wondering if anyone here has any thoughts/experience of these?
> 
> https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/15980942/oex-bobcat-1-person-tent-15980942
> https://www.blacks.co.uk/15980945/oex-phoxx-1v2-tent-15980945
> https://www.millets.co.uk/15986984/eurohike-backpacker-deluxe-tent-15986984


Sorry, not familiar with any of those.
I'd always start by asking myself what I'm looking for, in terms of design, space, weight, colour etc. How, when and where do I see myself using it? Then I'd go look for tents that match my needs.

For example, I used to have a Coleman tunnel tent. It was great, but set up facing into the wind. That meant in foul weather cooking in the vestibule was cold and wet - the very time something hot is appreciated. When I bought the tent cooking and especially foul weather camping was not even considered

I've always been wary of single occupancy tents due to a lack of space. Then again, I use my tent at all times of the year - space and comfort is important on long winter nights.

Having said that, a great little tent, albeit with a bit of a learning curve, is a Hexpeak 4a or Minipeak. Quite versatile, decent space. 

Hexpeak 4A with a (homemade) Tyvek footprint.





Single inner, that can be lowered to give full use of the space, decent vestibule space. Silnylon fly can sag when wet but easily corrected from inside by adjusting the single pole. Gap from fly to ground can be adjusted depending on weather conditions. 

If at all possible, I'd suggest visiting a store (when possible) to see one in the flesh. Get in. Crawl around. Etc.

Good luck!


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## Harril (30 Dec 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Sorry, not familiar with any of those.
> I'd always start by asking myself what I'm looking for, in terms of design, space, weight, colour etc. How, when and where do I see myself using it? Then I'd go look for tents that match my needs.
> 
> For example, I used to have a Coleman tunnel tent. It was great, but set up facing into the wind. That meant in foul weather cooking in the vestibule was cold and wet - the very time something hot is appreciated. When I bought the tent cooking and especially foul weather camping was not even considered
> ...



Interesting. I've not seen that tent before. it looks like it's an inner pitch first, which i'm trying to avoid to be honest.


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## HobbesOnTour (30 Dec 2020)

Harril said:


> Interesting. I've not seen that tent before. it looks like it's an inner pitch first, which i'm trying to avoid to be honest.


It's not at all!
Outer first, inner optional (there are different inners available, mainly from China. A double inner is pitched inner first, but that negates many of the advantages).

I usually left the inner in place so it was an all-in-one pitch.

As a matter of interest, why not inner first? 
My initial thoughts were that they'd not be good to pitch in the rain. Several years later that's never been an issue.


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## Harril (31 Dec 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> *It's not at all!*
> Outer first, inner optional (there are different inners available, mainly from China. A double inner is pitched inner first, but that negates many of the advantages).
> 
> I usually left the inner in place so it was an all-in-one pitch.
> ...



Ah, Ok. 

Well, talking to others, and watching numerous YT reviews, the received opinion is that outer pitch first is preferable because of the issue you mentioned there. The majority of places where it will get the most use are prone to inclement weather, the last thing I want to be doing at the end of a long day in the saddle is climbing into a soggy tent!


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## HobbesOnTour (31 Dec 2020)

Harril said:


> Ah, Ok.
> 
> Well, talking to others, and watching numerous YT reviews, the received opinion is that outer pitch first is preferable because of the issue you mentioned there. The majority of places where it will get the most use are prone to inclement weather, the last thing I want to be doing at the end of a long day in the saddle is climbing into a soggy tent!


Well, just so long as you're picky with your YT reviews. A lot of folks get freebies and or payment - they're not often the most unbiased reviewers 

As for inclement weather, my experience has been that pitching location, quality of pitch and good practises are probably more important for staying dry in the wet. In those conditions a decent sized vestibule (or an easily removed inner) is a big plus.

Good luck!


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## chriswoody (31 Dec 2020)

Harril said:


> Ah, Ok.
> 
> Well, talking to others, and watching numerous YT reviews, the received opinion is that outer pitch first is preferable because of the issue you mentioned there. The majority of places where it will get the most use are prone to inclement weather, the last thing I want to be doing at the end of a long day in the saddle is climbing into a soggy tent!



I'm one of those odd folk that really have no problems with inner first pitching. I spent the best part of twenty years working as an outdoor pursuits instructor, mostly in the Lake District. I also sea-kayaked, climbed and walked all over the mountains, both in Britain and overseas. I genuinely can't think of a time in all of these years of camping, that I've had a major issue with inner first tent pitching. It's rare that there isn't a gap in the rain for you to pop it up, however, if I really must pitch it up in the rain then I have a plan. 

I construct the poles and lay them out on the ground, then place the pegs out roughly where they'll go. Next the outer tent is place to one side ready to be used. Finally, I'll lay out the inner, but folded in half, so the bottom of the ground sheet is facing skyward. Then when I'm ready, I'll unfold the tent, pop the poles in and throw the outer over it. If everything is laid out, then it's a fast process and the inner really shouldn't get wet. 

Hobbes has put some good advise above and it really is personal preference and experience, but don't completely dismiss inner first designs. 

Off the tents that you have linked to, at least one has glass fibre poles, which in my experience are heavy, unwieldy to use and prone to breaking, I'd personally avoid them like the plague. If you are envisaging being out in inclement weather, then like Hobbes mentions, look for the size of the tent and wether there is room for cooking inside the vestibule, though be very careful if you do. There are some good tent recommendations throughout this thread, have a good look through and see what would maybe fit your needs and if possible go and see some in real life.


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## Harril (31 Dec 2020)

@ Hobbes and Chris. Interesting viewpoints. Greatly appreciated.


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## Andy in Germany (31 Dec 2020)

Thanks for the information, I'll squirrel these links away for when I can finally think about buying a tent.


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## HobbesOnTour (31 Dec 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Thanks for the information, I'll squirrel these links away for when I can finally think about buying a tent.


That's not how it works, Andy
You have to come back for more discussions! Much more interesting (and fun!) than a "what bike" thread


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## Andy in Germany (31 Dec 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> That's not how it works, Andy
> You have to come back for more discussions! Much more interesting (and fun!) than a "what bike" thread



To throw an extra spanner in the works I've been watching YouTube videos on wild camping int Germany and it turns out that because of the way the law works you are technically within the bounds of the law if you use a tarp, but not if you use a tent. As much forestry here is privately owned this could be important, so I'll have to look into tarps as well...


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## HobbesOnTour (31 Dec 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> To throw an extra spanner in the works I've been watching YouTube videos on wild camping int Germany and it turns out that because of the way the law works you are technically within the bounds of the law if you use a tarp, but not if you use a tent. As much forestry here is privately owned this could be important, so I'll have to look into tarps as well...


I often wonder about the enforcement of those types of rules.
Despite German police having a formidable reputation, I've always found them pleasant and relatively easygoing.
I tend to follow the philosophy that I'm likely to be seen and therefore go out of my way to be pleasant and friendly to anyone I meet. If I create the right impression authorities are less likely to be called.
I've camped out in a few German forests and in one the next morning I encountered several joggers and dog walkers. Nothing but smiles. (In a Covid world that may well be different)
Having said that I can present Irish or Dutch i.d. depending on where I am and play the dumb, lost tourist - an act that comes quite naturally

I respect people who can use tarps effectively. The times I've camped using only my fly my head was filled of thoughts of snakes! The flimsiest of mesh inners can seem like a castle!


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## Andy in Germany (31 Dec 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> I often wonder about the enforcement of those types of rules.
> Despite German police having a formidable reputation, I've always found them pleasant and relatively easygoing.
> I tend to follow the philosophy that I'm likely to be seen and therefore go out of my way to be pleasant and friendly to anyone I meet. If I create the right impression authorities are less likely to be called.
> I've camped out in a few German forests and in one the next morning I encountered several joggers and dog walkers. Nothing but smiles. (In a Covid world that may well be different)
> ...



Most forests are under the caretakership of the local volunteer hunter who has to be licenced and has a specific area to look after. They are the most likely person to meet. As you can imagine, some are fine, others are not, and they would technically have the law on their side if they do decide to be stroppy. I suspect most would just shout at you to leave sharpish though.


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## chriswoody (31 Dec 2020)

@Andy in Germany don't over think it! As you've seen from my posts I've wild camped a few times now with no stress. The trick is to pop the tent up late, much less chance of being noticed and told to move on. My biggest worry are the wild boar and wolves that roam these forests! I know I'm probably safe, but it does niggle knowing their out there!

If you do want a tarp and Bivy, you could do much worse than hop over to the Alpkit website, they have a great value Bivy and tarp set up.


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## Andy in Germany (31 Dec 2020)

chriswoody said:


> My biggest worry are the wild boar and wolves that roam these forests!



I did wonder about them, to be honest. I know there are boar locally but last I heard the wolves hadn't made it across the Autobahn.

There is allegedly a Lynx in the Swabian Jura which would worry me rather more.


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## chriswoody (31 Dec 2020)

We've got a few packs living in the forests around me and on the edges of the Südheide. The common consensus is that their a very shy animal, I've certainly not heard or seen any in all my trips.


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## Andy in Germany (31 Dec 2020)

chriswoody said:


> We've got a few packs living in the forests around me and on the edges of the Südheide. The common consensus is that their a very shy animal, I've certainly not heard or seen any in all my trips.
> 
> View attachment 566519



Wow, that's a lot.

Turns out there's a couple of individuals here in the Black Forest.


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## HobbesOnTour (1 Jan 2021)

I heard a ferocious crashing in some woods a little off course along the Rhine then saw the source - a huge boar! Terrifying!


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## Andy in Germany (1 Jan 2021)

HobbesOnTour said:


> I heard a ferocious crashing in some woods a little off course along the Rhine then saw the source - a huge boar! Terrifying!



I must admit Wild Boar give me the creeps more than the Wolves do.


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## Blue Hills (1 Jan 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> To throw an extra spanner in the works I've been watching YouTube videos on wild camping int Germany and it turns out that because of the way the law works you are technically within the bounds of the law if you use a tarp, but not if you use a tent. As much forestry here is privately owned this could be important, so I'll have to look into tarps as well...


Pic of a tarp in a forest.





I also have a bigger/heavier one as well but that one really needs trees to support the ridgeline.

I prefer tarps to tents in some situations - if I hear any odd noises I can easily check that there are no axe murders/german police/alligators crawling towards me, then roll over and go back to sleep - in a tent the imagination can run riot.

Also nice for watching (harmless) wildlife from.

If you plan to use one on a trip where you may need it for weather protection I would do some practising first - I once carried one on a trip where it threw it down for a couple of hours in the evening. Luckily it then stopped raining for the night. I wouldn't have had a clue how to string it up or would have been soaked by the time I had figured out some ramshackle arrangement.

(edit on that other thread theme - that time I could hear some odd grunting and see some mysterious shape running back and forth across the darkened field as I started to fall asleep - still no idea what it was - it never came towards me - British midlands - maybe not as wild as 4 legged things in Germany)

DD Hammocks or Lomo Watersports a good source of tarps but doubtless there are good German/EU suppliers

edited - DD Hammocks is the outfit.


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## Baldy (1 Jan 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> I must admit Wild Boar give me the creeps more than the Wolves do.



Had a couple of wolves walk past my tent in northern Sweden. They were very polite and tip-towed past without disturbing me.


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## Gravity Aided (1 Jan 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> I must admit Wild Boar give me the creeps more than the Wolves do.


Probably more dangerous, as well.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-woman-killed-wild-hogs-front-yard-home/story?id=67308386


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## Andy in Germany (1 Jan 2021)

Gravity Aided said:


> Probably more dangerous, as well.
> https://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-woman-killed-wild-hogs-front-yard-home/story?id=67308386



Much more.


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## Gravity Aided (1 Jan 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Much more.


Tasty, I might suppose.
Slow cooker, red wine, Montreal steak seasoning, mirrepoix.


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