# What's your maximum horse power?



## Yellow Fang (25 Apr 2013)

1 HP = 750 Watts (more or less). I am sure I regularly did over 400 W on the spinning bikes when I went to spin sessions. With a superhuman effort, I suspect I could top 500 W (⅔ HP).


----------



## HLaB (25 Apr 2013)




----------



## Rob3rt (25 Apr 2013)

For what duration?


----------



## mrandmrspoves (25 Apr 2013)

Horsepower? In my case.....more My Little Pony


----------



## roadrash (25 Apr 2013)

i think my power ratio could probably be likened to that of a hamster running in its a wheel, .....certainly not horse power.


----------



## Rob3rt (25 Apr 2013)

Rather useless, but since the thread is here, I had a look at my data and the power I can hold for varying durations returns the following.

Duration - Power (W) - Horsepower (based on your OP)
1s = 981W = 1.31
10s = 840W = 1.12
30s = 605W = 0.81
1 min = 500W = 0.67
5 min = 390W = 0.52
20 min = 325W = 0.43
60 min = 308W = 0.41

I am a weak sprinter!


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (26 Apr 2013)

Someone at work shoed me an article in 'Top Gear' magazine that had an interview with Chris Hoy.

During tests, he'd generated over 500Ib/ft of torque , as it said; 'more than a Ferrari (whatever model..)


----------



## GrasB (26 Apr 2013)

Rob3rt, how did you get your 1s power? PT, Quarq & SRM power meters don't really sample down to that time span. They average the forces over a longer period & produce a data point at a higher frequency.

1s = 1.73-1.91 (1289w-1424w) - depends on where you chop the pedal strokes.
5s = 1.70hp (1264w)
10s = 1.37hp (1019w)
30s = 1.17hp (873w)
1m = 0.89hp (662w)
5min = 0.60hp (448w)
15min = 0.55hp (409w)
60m = 0.5hp (371w)


----------



## Rob3rt (26 Apr 2013)

Quarq and I just lifted from my data, not something I have thought about tbh. Also these values are lifted from training efforts where they were part of some other effort (e.g. the best 1 minute power could have been the best section of a 2 minute effort), only the 5 mins, 20 mins and 60 min values have been formally tested as standalone efforts so it is highly likely that most of the shorter durations are not accurate. Additionally the 5 minute, 20 minute and 60 minute powers are turbo trainer values, I have exceeded both the 20 and 60 minute figures in 10 and 25 mile TT's by a little bit, but not enough to warrant an increase in my FTP value in my software as I would be unable to replicate in training on the turbo.


----------



## GrasB (26 Apr 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Quarq and I just lifted from my data, not something I have thought about tbh. Also these values are lifted from best efforts during training, only the 5 mins, 20 mins and 60 min values are tested to maximal effort.


IIRC you 1s will be 2 crank revolutions. So the actual measurement will be dependant on your cadence but is 'true' for that period. SRM are 1.5 revolutions & pessimistic, in some way this is the best instantaneous measurement, as it gives you minimum peek power ( does that concept make your head hurt? it does mine). PTs are just funky as they go by time & various versions have different sample periods. This is why 5s is really the lowest sample period you want to deal with.


----------



## Yellow Fang (26 Apr 2013)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Someone at work shoed me an article in 'Top Gear' magazine that had an interview with Chris Hoy.
> 
> During tests, he'd generated over 500Ib/ft of torque , as it said; 'more than a Ferrari (whatever model..)


 
HP = RPM x lb in / 63000
HP = RPM x lb/ft / 5250 (I think)

So for Chris Hoy,

HP = RPM x 500 lb/ft / 5200 = 0.0962 lb/ft x RPM

What is Chris Hoy's revolutions per minute?


----------



## Rob3rt (26 Apr 2013)

Yellow Fang said:


> HP = RPM x lb in / 63000
> HP = RPM x lb/ft / 5250 (I think)
> 
> So for Chris Hoy,
> ...


 
Depends how fast he is going, fixed gear!


----------



## ColinJ (26 Apr 2013)

Duration - Power (W) - Horsepower (based on your OP)
1s = 98.1W = 0.131
10s = 84.0W = 0.112
30s = 60.5W = 0.081
1 min = 50.0W = 0.067
5 min = 39.0W = 0.052
20 min = 32.5W = 0.043
60 min = 30.8W = 0.041

I am just plain weak!


----------



## Cyclist33 (26 Apr 2013)

I'm a cyclist not an athlete, therefore have never bothered to assess my wattage as I don't see riding as training.


----------



## GrasB (26 Apr 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Depends how fast he is going, fixed gear!


Track sprint cyclists tend to have a fairly constant maximum power over a wide rpm range, as in 30-150rpm. I'd imagine that would be fairly low in the rpm registers, bellow that the pedal for tends to stay constant & power rises. Say he puts out 500lb/ft at 10rpm that's 0.96kW, but at 30 rpm that'd be 2.89kW.


----------



## Rob3rt (26 Apr 2013)

Cyclist33 said:


> I'm a cyclist not an athlete, therefore have never bothered to assess my wattage *as I don't see riding as training.*


 
Neither do I, I see riding as riding, training as training and racing as racing!


----------



## Cyclist33 (26 Apr 2013)

I just see it as riding, if I wanted to be competitive I'd enter a pub quiz!


----------



## GrasB (26 Apr 2013)

... see I view my self as an athlete who happens to ride a bike. So yeah I'll get all obsessive about all this stuff but that's my way. It's equally acceptable not to give a flying one about it all as well.


----------



## VamP (27 Apr 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Rather useless, but since the thread is here, I had a look at my data and the power I can hold for varying durations returns the following.
> 
> Duration - Power (W) - Horsepower (based on your OP)
> 1s = 981W = 1.31
> ...


 
There's an understatement!

Your profile is really stacked in favour of the longer durations - I guess that's why you TT.

My FTP is woeful compared to yours, but my 5 min and shorter durations are all better. And I am a terrible sprinter.

I wonder if that could be because you haven't tested your sprint power correctly?


----------



## GrasB (27 Apr 2013)

VamP said:


> There's an understatement!
> 
> Your profile is really stacked in favour of the longer durations - I guess that's why you TT.
> 
> ...


It's not just watts but also w/kg (PWR) - If I look at PWR profiling I'm not great at short durations, this is my power profile today:
5s -15.6w/kg (cat 3, border line cat 4) @ 1264w
1min - 8.17w/kg (cat 3) @ 622w
5min - 5.53w/kg (cat 2) - 448w
60min - 4.58w/kg (cat 2) - 371w
However 1264w still gives me a kick to get me in to the low-40mph range solo thanks to my 5'7" stature. This is with my training concentrating on endurance power only. Before concentrating on endurance training & doing balenced at all round training it looked like this:
5s - 18.29w/kg (cat 2) @ 1452w
1 min - 9.51w/kg (cat 2, border line cat 1) @ 757w
5 min - 5.21w/kg (cat 2) @ 414w
60min - 4.12w/kg (cat 3, borderline cat 2) @ 326w
So I've lost some PWR at the shorter durations, but gained weight. This means I'm about 2mph lower in the short durations but gained about the same over 1h. For my goals this is a good compromise.


----------



## VamP (27 Apr 2013)

GrasB said:


> It's not just watts but also w/kg (PWR) - If I look at PWR profiling I'm not great at short durations, this is my power profile today:
> 5s -15.6w/kg (cat 3, border line cat 4) @ 1264w
> 1min - 8.17w/kg (cat 3) @ 622w
> 5min - 5.53w/kg (cat 2) - 448w
> ...


 
 It was Rob3ert's profile I was commenting on - yours I haven't looked at yet. Too scared


----------



## Rob3rt (27 Apr 2013)

VamP said:


> There's an understatement!
> 
> Your profile is really stacked in favour of the longer durations - I guess that's why you TT.
> 
> ...


 
Very possible, as I said above I have only tested 5 min through 60 min formally. The shorter durations are just a "best of" collection extracted from other efforts, i.e. my 1 minute power could actually be the best minute taken from a 3 minute effort, for example.


----------



## GrasB (27 Apr 2013)

VamP said:


> It was Rob3ert's profile I was commenting on - yours I haven't looked at yet. Too scared


Point was supposed to be that watts alone doesn't show the entire story. A lot of people would consider my 5s power as high but in the grand scheme of things it's quite low PWR.


----------



## GrasB (27 Apr 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Very possible, as I said above I have only tested 5 min through 60 min formally. The shorter durations are just a "best of" collection extracted from other efforts, i.e. my 1 minute power could actually be the best minute taken from a 3 minute effort, for example.


I often find that a CP run of a longer duration is the best way to get maximal effort for a shorter duration.


----------



## Rob3rt (27 Apr 2013)

BTW, for context my weight is approx 75-76kg. Haven't weighed in for a couple of weeks.


----------



## GrasB (27 Apr 2013)

at 75.5kg I get (after from a fitted curve to your supplied numbers) -
5 sec 12.21w/kg - cat 5/untrained
1 min 6.62w/kg - cat 5
15 min 4.38w/kg - cat 3
1 hour 4.08w/kg - border line cat 2/3

Which is about right for someone who's going for endurance power & not doing sprint interval training. There are very strong TTers out there, in the cat 1 band for FTP, which have 5s maximals in the 12-13w/kg area!


----------



## jarlrmai (27 Apr 2013)

ha i'm 60kg so I prefer climbing hills


----------



## VamP (27 Apr 2013)

GrasB said:


> Point was supposed to be that watts alone doesn't show the entire story.


 
Of course. But in the context of individual strengths and weaknesses it doesn't matter as rider weight is a constant.


----------



## Ningishzidda (27 Apr 2013)

6 hours 85 W.
12 hours 70 W.
18 hours 60 W.

That makes me a Randonnuer 1000 badge holder.


----------



## GrasB (27 Apr 2013)

VamP said:


> Of course. But in the context of individual strengths and weaknesses it doesn't matter as rider weight is a constant.


Okay so which is more competitive: a FT PWR of 3.42w/kg or an FTP of 145w?


----------



## Ningishzidda (27 Apr 2013)

The guy I race against has an FTP of 250 and is 10 st 11lbs.
I am 14 st 4 lb and have an FTP of 270.
I win by over two minutes in a ten miler.

This is because when we get up to speed, I have inertia, or momentum whichever you prefer.
I also have a fantastically aerodynamic bike, he's on a Raleigh Chopper.


----------



## GrasB (28 Apr 2013)

On a perfectly flat surface the lighter rider has a 7.4s disadvantage, with 2.5m a km of ascent & descent the lighter rider holds a 10.8s advantage. Assumptions: CdA = 0.207, Crr = 0.00652, Bike weight = 7.4kg & they are riding at FTP (which won't be the case). As this modelling seems to be rather accurate with people I TT& hill climb against one would suggest that there's a lot more to the speed difference than just the FTP output.

My 1h PB is just over 6km shorter than someone who put out just over 10w more than me. But 10w alone can't explain this difference, 300-400m of it was due to bad pacing (my output was a gradual downward slope), another km or so is wattage.. so where does that extra 4.5-5km come from?


----------



## VamP (28 Apr 2013)

GrasB said:


> Okay so which is more competitive: a FT PWR of 3.42w/kg or an FTP of 145w?


 


We're having a miscommunication. What I am saying is that when looking at Rob3rts strengths and weaknesses, I don't need to know his weight to see that he's a crap sprinter compared to his FTP. w/kg come into the equation when I want to see how crap a sprinter or great TT'er he is compared to A Coggan's sample of the cycling populace.

No argument that w/kg is the more versatile metric.


----------



## jdtate101 (1 May 2013)

1s = 1200W 
10s = 950W 
30s = 840W 
1 min = 600W 
5 min = 385W 
20 min = 290W 
60 min = 260W 

I'm not bad for short sprints and climbs, but need to work on longer power output (and loose a bit more weight).


----------



## VamP (1 May 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> 1s = 1200W
> 10s = 950W
> 30s = 840W
> 1 min = 600W
> ...


 
Mine is very similar to that. Our relative strengths are actually the 3-5 minute durations, although I have been deliberately targeting FTP this year, and it is definitely climbing. Weight as always is the enemy, I am at 79 but want to get to 75 in time for my main season (August onwards). If I can get my FTP to 300 by then I will be a very happy bunny.


----------



## jdtate101 (2 May 2013)

VamP said:


> Mine is very similar to that. Our relative strengths are actually the 3-5 minute durations, although I have been deliberately targeting FTP this year, and it is definitely climbing. Weight as always is the enemy, I am at 79 but want to get to 75 in time for my main season (August onwards). If I can get my FTP to 300 by then I will be a very happy bunny.


 
Sounds identical to my situation. Currently 80kg aiming for 76kg. FTP is tested at 282 right now want to bump to 300. I'm good on flats, short climbs and sprints, but longer climbs the weight really slows me. I'm currently starting on a FTP specific weights program to increase strength, whilst slowly reducing my weight. I'm trying to peak in July for the Marmotte. I have no doubt I can get round, as I've done alpine climbs before, but I'd like to get a sub 8 hour time for the loop.


----------



## Rob3rt (2 May 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> Sounds identical to my situation. Currently 80kg aiming for 76kg. FTP is tested at 282 right now want to bump to 300. I'm good on flats, short climbs and sprints, but longer climbs the weight really slows me.* I'm currently starting on a FTP specific weights program to increase strength*, whilst slowly reducing my weight. I'm trying to peak in July for the Marmotte. I have no doubt I can get round, as I've done alpine climbs before, but I'd like to get a sub 8 hour time for the loop.


 
:S What does that involve exactly?


----------



## jdtate101 (2 May 2013)

It's based around specific weight exercises (squats, dead lifts..etc) that you don't load up lots of weight but use moderate weight and higher amount of reps, but never go to the point of failure (ie when you can't do any more). It's supposed to get your body used to push larger resistance, and you up the reps as you get stronger. Because of the lower weight it doesn't add bulk. It also has elements of core strength and arm strength involved specific to cycling.

It's not full on weight training (very light in comparison) and I combine it with over and under FTP interval sessions on the bike/turbo, as well as longer endurance and recovery rides.


----------



## gavroche (2 May 2013)

Horse power?
I don't ride a horse, I ride a bike.


----------



## Rob3rt (2 May 2013)

TBH, I wouldn't bother. Now this is just my opinion, but if you are going to do weights, I think it should be left for the off season where you are more focussed on volume rather than intensity (it won't really detriment your endurance rides). During the season it will impact your other training sessions. If you aim is increased FTP, my training would involve a threshold session, a VO2 max session and and a tempo session per week. Plus some endurance training and a couple of recovery rides.

As someone who's main aim essentially boils down to having a big FTP value for my weight (10 mile and 25 mile TT's) my training week is something like the following (things do change a little now and then, usually the Monday or Sunday would be subject to variance):

Monday: Rest
Tuesday: VO2 Max intervals
Wednesday: Threshold workout
Thursday: Recovery Ride
Friday: Race tune-up (Endurance ride but with a few hard efforts thrown in)
Saturday: AM - About 30 mins worth of utility cycling PM - Race
Sunday: Tempo


----------



## VamP (2 May 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> It's based around specific weight exercises (squats, dead lifts..etc) that you don't load up lots of weight but use moderate weight and higher amount of reps, but never go to the point of failure (ie when you can't do any more). It's supposed to get your body used to push larger resistance, and you up the reps as you get stronger. Because of the lower weight it doesn't add bulk. It also has elements of core strength and arm strength involved specific to cycling.
> 
> It's not full on weight training (very light in comparison) and I combine it with over and under FTP interval sessions on the bike/turbo, as well as longer endurance and recovery rides.


 
Good luck with this, and although opinion is divided, I think the current weight of opinion is that this type of weight training does not translate to bike. Most coaches argue that you'd be better off with more time on the bike riding SST and FTP intervals.

I'm guessing that you're feeling it's adding value though, so


----------



## Rob3rt (2 May 2013)

I personally have little opinion or experience of whether weight training helps on the bike in absolute terms, but I do have the opinion that it causes fatigue which will then make it difficult to perform your other sessions (VO2 max and threshold sessions) to you maximum. I feel you would gain more from completing these sessions to the maximum intensity than you would from the weights.


----------



## VamP (2 May 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> TBH, I wouldn't bother. Now this is just my opinion, but if you are going to do weights, I think it should be left for the off season. During the season it will impact your other training sessions. If you aim is increased FTP, my training would involve a threshold session, a VO2 max session and and a tempo session per week. Plus some endurance training and a couple of recovery rides.
> 
> As someone who's main aim essentially boils down to having a big FTP value for my weight (10 mile and 25 mile TT's) my training week is something like the following (things do change a little now and then, usually the Monday or Sunday would be subject to variance):
> 
> ...


 
Mine is fairly similar, although I will have at least two SST rides (60 -90 minutes) per week, and If I'm on a tempo ride I will pepper it with some sprints. I am moving to a new format of mid-week racing in place of weekend racing, so will have to move things around some. No weights at all, though I do include a little core work in my stretching routine.


----------



## Rob3rt (2 May 2013)

VamP said:


> Mine is fairly similar, although I will have at least two SST rides (60 -90 minutes) per week, and If I'm on a tempo ride I will pepper it with some sprints. I am moving to a new format of mid-week racing in place of weekend racing, so will have to move things around some. No weights at all, though I do include a little core work in my stretching routine.


 
I have started to add in some extra features to my VO2 max interval session (I did 5 "racing winning" efforts this week comprised of, 30 sec all out sprint, seated though as I was on the turbo, 3 mins at upper threshold, 10 second all out sprint, it was very hard going for me, because those 30 second and 10 second efforts are my weakness, think I peaked around 700W seated sprint, average about 600W) and threshold sessions in order to minimise the damage more explosive riders will do to me in some upcoming grass track meets.


----------



## VamP (2 May 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> I have started to add in some extra features to my VO2 max interval session (I did 5 "racing winning" efforts this week comprised of, 30 sec all out sprint, seated though as I was on the turbo, 3 mins at upper threshold, 10 second all out sprint, it was very hard going for me, because those 30 second and 10 second efforts are my weakness, think I peaked around 700W seated sprint, average about 600W) and threshold sessions in order to minimise the damage more explosive riders will do to me in some upcoming grass track meets.


 
I have some of those planned for next week


----------

