# Doping in other sports



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


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## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


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## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


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## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


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## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


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## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


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## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


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## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


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## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


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## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


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## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


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## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


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## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


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## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


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## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


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## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

I've posted this link on another thread before, but the graph at the bottom makes interesting reading. Shows how far cycling has come in recent years. We are no longer the dirtiest sport in terms of % of positives! Terrible statement by the Guardian stating that footballers are the most tested in terms of total number of tests. I'd like to know how many pro footballers there are globally. Greater than 50% more cyclists that for sure!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/datablog/2012/jul/04/olympics-2012-athletics


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## Trail Child (18 Jan 2013)

ayceejay said:


> Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
> "Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


Or they decided that everyone from British Columbia was going to be positive for Pot anyway ... LOL.


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## Trail Child (18 Jan 2013)

My dad was a pro hockey player & my mum was a pro figure skater in the 60s and both tell stories of seeing PEDs back then, especially hockey.


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## HLaB (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).


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## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Lots of sports stars suddenly bulk up real big.

It could be innocent but always looks suspect.

WSC did a write up on Juventus.
http://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/923-Europe/1730-negative-results

"Following the declaration by sports minister Girolamo Sirchia that the problem of doping is “widespread”, a nervous Roma have confessed to giving muscle-enhancing Voltaren to players, and random EPO-testing is to be reintroduced in January."

That was 2005 but I do imagine positive results in football are kept well away from the media.


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## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Hey Trail Child. That's you dad who had his teeth removed sans anesthetic eh?


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## Trail Child (19 Jan 2013)

ayceejay said:


> Hey Trail Child. That's you dad who had his teeth removed sans anesthetic eh?


My dad doesn't have teeth. What hockey player does, eh? LOL.


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## Strathlubnaig (19 Jan 2013)

Trail Child said:


> My dad was a pro hockey player & my mum was a pro figure skater in the 60s and both tell stories of seeing PEDs back then, especially hockey.


pretty sure the goaltenders back in the day sans masks must have been on something !!


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## oldroadman (21 Jan 2013)

The correct question to ask is, what is xxx sport doing to combat the possibility of doping, how many tests do they carry out both in and out of competition, how many non-negatives, do the peole involved get properly prosecuted, what are the sanctions? You may find cycling comes out rather well on the percentages.


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## Strathlubnaig (22 Jan 2013)

Story on eurosport here about lack of doping controls in pro tennis "Djokovic said last week that he had not been blood tested "in six or seven months".
Probably a similar story in other sports too.


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## Andrew_P (22 Jan 2013)

It is rampant in all sports, and a lot easier to do than in cycling.


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## thom (22 Jan 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Story on eurosport here about lack of doping controls in pro tennis "Djokovic said last week that he had not been blood tested "in six or seven months".
> Probably a similar story in other sports too.


Guy Forget says there's always been doping in tennis.
This was mentioned on the Today program this morning too.


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## Crankarm (22 Jan 2013)

Table tennis?


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## aces_up1504 (22 Jan 2013)

I think the issue is, once a sport is perceived to have a doping problem which has come up with postive failures a number of times. Then actions are put in place as per cycling and athletes to find how systemic the problem is and hopefully remove it.

If we saw a number of footballers failing for a particular performance enhancing drug, there would no doubt be a increase in the in the number of tests until those failures come along, the sport will be thought of being relatively clean


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## oldroadman (22 Jan 2013)

aces_up1504 said:


> I think the issue is, once a sport is perceived to have a doping problem which has come up with postive failures a number of times. Then actions are put in place as per cycling and athletes to find how systemic the problem is and hopefully remove it.
> 
> If we saw a number of footballers failing for a particular performance enhancing drug, there would no doubt be a increase in the in the number of tests until those failures come along, the sport will be thought of being relatively clean


 
Exactly, and you don't find non-negatives until you have a proper testing programme, and if you don't have a proper testing programme you don't find non-negatives, and so the merry go round continues.
Sports have to WANT to be clean to monitor doping properly, and where there is big money and politics involved (e.g. FIFA) therer is simply to will to do it, as the last thing they want to find is a problem!
If anyone mentions cycling as a sport with a problem to me, my response is that at least we are working hard to find out the dopers, unlike those sports who would prefer not to know.


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## aces_up1504 (22 Jan 2013)

While is half agree with your saying Oldroadman

"Sports have to WANT to be clean to monitor doping properly!

But if a sport is respected as clean then there is no requirment to monitor doping properly because there is belief the sport is clean, it only when issue arise on a consistant basis, then the clamp down is required.

The last few years in cycling it has been shown that doping is being beaten, it is the belief you can now win clean and as the cycle reiforces that doping is unacceptable, then i believe the problem will become less and less.

If not cyclist was found doping in the next 5 years, do you think they would countinue to the current regime or would the scale it back?


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## Beebo (22 Jan 2013)

Major league Baseball has a huge drug problem, testing is a joke.

The fans dont seem to care because it makes the game more exciting with more home runs being hit.


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## tigger (22 Jan 2013)

Sorry if this Telegraph article has been posted elsewhere (it can sit in a few different threads I think!) but Operation Puerto goes to court next week. Interesting that the scope of the investigation has been limited to cycling...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html


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## davefb (22 Jan 2013)

pfft soccer isn't clean..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_association_football#England

and of course in america , it was the balco scandal,, of which only one of the sportsmen was a cyclist..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BALCO


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## aces_up1504 (22 Jan 2013)

davefb said:


> pfft soccer isn't clean..
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_association_football#England


 

I dont think anyone would say football is clean, but the amount of positive tests means that the sports is considered relatively low risk in terms of doping at the moment.

Dont forget in top flight football across the 4 big leagues you are talking in excess 1600 people probably across 50-60 Europe wide cities. Then we have south american based players. Were not just talking a couple of 100 cyclists.


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## davefb (22 Jan 2013)

aces_up1504 said:


> I dont think anyone would say football is clean, but the amount of positive tests means that the sports is considered relatively low risk in terms of doping at the moment.
> 
> Dont forget in top flight football across the 4 big leagues you are talking in excess 1600 people probably across 50-60 Europe wide cities. Then we have south american based players. Were not just talking a couple of 100 cyclists.


so you know how many tests have been done and what the fail rate is , compared to cycling ?

this is old data.. but gives an idea

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/3170586.stm

AND, ( if it's still true) footballers can only be tested at training grounds or matches, not at homes,, which "may" be why mr ferdinand 'forgot' to take a test one time.. 

and yet, that ( utterly out of date  ) article also mentions the FA claim that the UK does more tests than other countries!


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## Andrew_P (22 Jan 2013)

Joey Barton (of all people) wrote about Armstrong and said he had never had anything but urine tests. Never had blood or hair samples taken. They may rest two player post match from each team. http://www.joeybarton.com/armstrong-the-fall-of-an-iconic-sporting-superstar/


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## BrumJim (22 Jan 2013)

I think that there is a difference in focus between sports where skill and teamwork play a larger part in success than strength and/or fitness. To an average man on the street, you win cycle races by being stronger and fitter than the next guy. OK, descending and team tactics play a big part, but non-fans don't appreciate this much. Whereas in football, guys like Messi and Ronaldo are admired for their footwork, ball control and intelligent positioning. The only footballer I can remember that was worshipped for his pace was Des Walker.
Tennis again is about putting the ball in the right part of the court. It is evident now that to beat the best (Nadal, Murray, Djorkovic) you need to match them for fitness too, and hence I can believe that there is a big drugs problem in tennis too.
Rugby is another big issue. In both League and Union, strength and speed pay an important role in how good a player is regarded. The only side issue is that without playing as a team, and without having the right positioning and reading of the game, a super fast or super strong player is going to be a liability.

Sports where strength and/or speed make the biggest focus include cycling, athletics and weight lifting. All these have had serious drug problems which have affected their credibility. Some other sports (e.g. boxing) are going to have the same problems soon, whereas more team / skill orientated sports will probably get away with lax controls for a lot longer.


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## Hont (22 Jan 2013)

aces_up1504 said:


> Dont forget in top flight football across the 4 big leagues you are talking in excess 1600 people probably across 50-60 Europe wide cities. Then we have south american based players. Were not just talking a couple of 100 cyclists.


 
Should that make a difference? Football is awash with money, it can certainly fund a bigger testing program, if the motivation was there. 

The biggest problem is surely exactly that. The only reason that cycling started to clean up its act was because of doping scandals at its marquee event, the Tour de France, and the negative publicity. If the french police had not got involved, who's to say whether cycling would be any different now than from 1997.


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## Andrew_P (22 Jan 2013)

Take look at Football in the 70's and 80's the speed and sheer number of games has increased a huge amount. EPO was thought to be rife in the early 2000's let alone now. Got a £20 million pound player sidelined with an injury, surely the temptation would be some to give anabolics to help speed the recovery. Gary Nevile even wrote in his book about being given "vitamin injections" at a World Cup and he felt he could run for longer.

Big money returns = PED's


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## Hont (22 Jan 2013)

Nebulous said:


> I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.


 
I don't want to be too critical of this, because it was obviously very distressing, but given that Ratzenberger had died the previous day, you can hardly say that you didn't think the sport was dangerous. And there hasn't been a driver fatality in F1 since. During the same period I can think of at least 3 cycling fatalities during world tour level races.


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## Hont (22 Jan 2013)

Beebo said:


> Major league Baseball has a huge drug problem, testing is a joke.
> The fans dont seem to care because it makes the game more exciting with more home runs being hit.


 
Not sure that's completely true. Remember all the fans holding up asterisk signs as Barry Bonds neared Hank Aarons record? And, although I agree that testing is a joke compared to many other sports, it has cleaned up somewhat. No one is getting that close to 50 HRs a season these days, let alone 73.


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## davefb (22 Jan 2013)

LOCO said:


> Take look at Football in the 70's and 80's the speed and sheer number of games has increased a huge amount. EPO was thought to be rife in the early 2000's let alone now. Got a £20 million pound player sidelined with an injury, surely the temptation would be some to give anabolics to help speed the recovery. Gary Nevile even wrote in his book about being given "vitamin injections" at a World Cup and he felt he could run for longer.
> 
> Big money returns = PED's


actually, the worst for footballers is giving painkillers to get players thru games, but not thinking of long term problems..

anyway found this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ll-to-feel-the-heat-and-share-the-burden.html


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## Strathlubnaig (22 Jan 2013)

As an example, Nathan Haas was tested 9 times last season, compare that to your typical fitba' player.


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## Nebulous (22 Jan 2013)

Hont said:


> I don't want to be too critical of this, because it was obviously very distressing, but given that Ratzenberger had died the previous day, you can hardly say that you didn't think the sport was dangerous. And there hasn't been a driver fatality in F1 since. During the same period I can think of at least 3 cycling fatalities during world tour level races.


 
I'm not sure quoting that part of my post in isolation really works. The post was about how for a variety of reasons I lost interest in sports that had given me a lot of pleasure before. It's hard to define at this distance why that episode was such a turning point for my interest in Formula 1, but it is likely to have been a combination of several possibilities:-
1) I was a huge fan of his talent/ car-handling skills.
2) The TV coverage dwelt on the scene far too long, I remember it being focused on a puddle of blood on the ground.
3) Finding out afterwards it was nothing to do with him losing control, but was the result of a bodged welding job.

I wouldn't even say it was distressing, sickening might be a better adjective. I've worked in healthcare, including trying as part of a team to save people who had been in horrific accidents, and again dismay at the senselessness of it was more how I felt than distressed.

Whatever the reason I turned away from it that day and have never looked back.


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## oldroadman (22 Jan 2013)

aces_up1504 said:


> While is half agree with your saying Oldroadman
> 
> "Sports have to WANT to be clean to monitor doping properly!
> 
> ...


 Continue - no reason not to do so. Sadly, cycling has to constantly prove itself innocent, an interesting view of the legalities.


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## oldroadman (22 Jan 2013)

BrumJim said:


> I think that there is a difference in focus between sports where skill and teamwork play a larger part in success than strength and/or fitness. To an average man on the street, you win cycle races by being stronger and fitter than the next guy. OK, descending and team tactics play a big part, but non-fans don't appreciate this much. Whereas in football, guys like Messi and Ronaldo are admired for their footwork, ball control and intelligent positioning. The only footballer I can remember that was worshipped for his pace was Des Walker.
> Tennis again is about putting the ball in the right part of the court. It is evident now that to beat the best (Nadal, Murray, Djorkovic) you need to match them for fitness too, and hence I can believe that there is a big drugs problem in tennis too.
> Rugby is another big issue. In both League and Union, strength and speed pay an important role in how good a player is regarded. The only side issue is that without playing as a team, and without having the right positioning and reading of the game, a super fast or super strong player is going to be a liability.
> 
> Sports where strength and/or speed make the biggest focus include cycling, athletics and weight lifting. All these have had serious drug problems which have affected their credibility. Some other sports (e.g. boxing) are going to have the same problems soon, whereas more team / skill orientated sports will probably get away with lax controls for a lot longer.


 
Sorry but this is not something which hangs together. ALL sport requiring fitness and strength, plus skill, requires an excellent physical base and a recovery ability. Football is no exception. I will believe it is clean when there are a comparable percentage of tests and the percentage on non-negatives is close to nil. Until then it is not unreasonable to suspect sports of having a problem, especially when they like to contend they don't have one, despite a pathetic control programme. Even steroids (old hat really) make a big difference in strength, let alone messing with blood and "vitamin injections which made me run faster". Credibility zero, ignorance by players of what is being put into their bodies by "medics", stunning.


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## BJH (1 May 2013)

Having been critical on this thread of our most famous tennis player before, good to see his comments today around the refusal of the Spanish courts to release the blood bags.


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## rich p (1 May 2013)

I'd hate to come over as complacent but the moral opprobrium that is heaped upon dopers in the UK tends me to believe in vociferous anti-dopers like Murray, Paula Radcliffe, Bradley Wiggins are clean. If you were doping then why set yourself up as a hostage to fortune?
This - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/22363900


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## BJH (2 May 2013)

I agree, I find tennis extremely questionable.

In Murray's case, i didn't like moans from him in the past about drug testing. Just glad to see him opening his mouth in a more positive way towards cheats and cheating.

I have always held a similar belief as said above by Rich P - being very vociferous about drugs doesn't guarantee the person as clean, but I would certainly say it gives a very strong suggestion of it.


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## Hont (2 May 2013)

User said:


> a lot of hinting that it's Nadal, he's having a pop at...not sure this is true.


Agree with that, Murray is quite friendly with Nadal so it would seem odd to now be pointing the finger at him, despite being the most obvious candidate.


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## Strathlubnaig (4 May 2013)

Olympic 1500m champion doped, and one of her compatriots (Turks)
http://www.sports247.my/2013/05/athletics-olympic-champ-alptekin-charged-with-doping-iaaf/


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## Hip Priest (4 May 2013)

oldroadman said:


> Sorry but this is not something which hangs together. ALL sport requiring fitness and strength, plus skill, requires an excellent physical base and a recovery ability.


 
Agreed.

David Millar described being on EPO as having 'your best day as an athlete, every day'.

If football team A are all having their best day as an athlete every day, then they have a massive advantage over football team B, who are suffering normal levels of fatigue over the course of a game or a season, with the subsequent decline in performance and sharpness it brings.


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## albion (4 May 2013)

Yep, I've found it a bit questionable how certain football teams run the legs off everyone.
Such massive amounts of money and yet so little doping does strike me as more than a bit strange.

Golf and tennis are certainly is similar. It like the establishments keeps it all under wrap.


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## brodiej (5 May 2013)

Hont said:


> Agree with that, Murray is quite friendly with Nadal so it would seem odd to now be pointing the finger at him, despite being the most obvious candidate.



One thing I feel about Murray is he emerged with loads of talent but looked and acted like a teenager (which he was). It took him years to bulk up and get fit enough to win a major.

Contrast Nadal and Del Potro who appeared ready prepared in their late teens / early 20s, won a major and have suffered injuries since.

Murray got injured while still growing but doesn't now he's in his mid 20s.

It seems a much more natural progression


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## Flying_Monkey (5 May 2013)

brodiej said:


> Contrast Nadal and Del Potro who appeared ready prepared in their late teens / early 20s, won a major and have suffered injuries since.


 
see also Ronaldo (the Brazilian one).


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## resal (5 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Olympic 1500m champion doped, and one of her compatriots (Turks)
> http://www.sports247.my/2013/05/athletics-olympic-champ-alptekin-charged-with-doping-iaaf/


That is going to be interesting. 2 year bans across the board, this was the big thing that came in with the WADA code. About how effective a deterrent is that ? Well this girl had one in 2004 and look she's back at London. However on the face of it, this is one tick for the Bio Passport. I thought it was easy enough for anyone with the right sort of medical back up to get around it with mocrodosing. Did this girl get caught at London or did she not keep the lines flat afterwards in all her celebrations ? Let us take a guess.


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## resal (5 May 2013)

oldroadman said:


> Continue - no reason not to do so. Sadly, cycling has to constantly prove itself innocent, an interesting view of the legalities.


 
oldroadman you obviously have no idea how this comes across, because surely if you did, you would not have written it ! 

Of course cycling has to prove itself innocent and it needs to do so for the next 100 years. The goons at the top during the last 20 years have just watched as it has destroyed itself with debacle after debacle. I don't get asked by my workmates, I get told - "that Bradley Wiggins, he's on drugs insn't he. They are all the same". Each event has been sad but even more sad has been the lies constantly fed to us that "we are in a new, clean era". The same record has been played each year from 1999. When is that useless board at the UCI going to issue a public apology to Kimmage and Landis ? Bringing the sport into disrepute ! Each day they sit on their hands whilst Pat takes them deeper into the swamp, they bring the sport into disrepute. They need to charge themselves. 

The sport continues to attract critical comment because it has done very little to dissuade anyone that it is doing anything. It is progressing exactly as you keep advising it should, by incremental amounts.

So incremental that even put together, they add up to s*d all.

I have no doubt that other sports have PED problems the equal of those in cycling. Whether their governing bodies would be quite as inept as those in cycling is in doubt. We can all have our opinions. For cycling, we don't need opinions, we have it confirmed, year after year as each new dark story consumes us. 

"Lance rode clean in his comeback - look the tests prove it." Why even Lance himself tells us he could not fool the bio-passport, so it just has to be true. I can sleep easily in my bed now ! Nothing to do with the SOL. Oh yes, another fairy tale for the fans to hang their dreams on.


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## rich p (5 May 2013)

resal said:


> The sport continues to attract critical comment because it has done very little to dissuade anyone that it is doing anything. It is progressing exactly as you keep advising it should, by incremental amounts.
> 
> So incremental that even put together, they add up to s*d all.
> 
> ...


Resal, you are beating yourself in the argument.
If you believe that other sports have "PED probelems the equal of those in cycling" then their governing bodies are already more inept than even the UCI by sitting on their hands and doing nothing.


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## resal (5 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Resal, you are beating yourself in the argument.
> If you believe that other sports have "PED probelems the equal of those in cycling" then their governing bodies are already more inept than even the UCI by sitting on their hands and doing nothing.


You are right. They, like the "wise" idiot are keeping quiet. Their idiocy is not confirmed.


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## oldroadman (7 May 2013)

If you want to see inept (and/or allegedly corrupt), four letters - FIFA. They must be aware what is going on and do - zero. UCI is not perfect by a long way but do actually acknowledge the issue and have introduced measures, which is more than can be said for many other bodies.

You have a doping problem, Mr President of international/national sports body?
No we don't, so we have no need for a programme or testing.
Then how do you know there is no problem without testing?
Because we know our competitors would not cheat as they are all honest "amateurs", and we trust them.
How nice that such a wonderful honest sport exists, how much can your "amateurs" at world level make?
Just good expenses, there are no payments.

The essence of an actual conversation from a few years ago with the head of an international governing body for an endurance sport much covered on BBC at the time.

So that's all right then!


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## resal (7 May 2013)

oldroadman said:


> If you want to see inept (and/or allegedly corrupt), four letters - FIFA. They must be aware what is going on and do - zero. UCI is not perfect by a long way but do actually ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> So that's all right then!


 
[WADA - first proposals to all the sports governing bodies, I think it was Copenhagen 2003. Sepp waddled over to Hein and they both walked out of one of the first sessions and then came back in after break and together stated to Dick, that they did not want blanket 2 year bans but wanted to be able to treat each case on its merit (like the 6 month bans handed out in cycling starting Oct each year) and were not in favour of out of competition testing proposals, all these being fine for amateur sports or less demanding sports. For professional football and professional cycling they would not work. We do not want to allow them to be introduced to our sports. When did FIFA eventually sign -2008 and even then with some special exemptions. You are entirely right and no sane person should have has any doubt about Sepp and FIFA. ]

No it is not alright. It is completely rubbish and we know that the doping arms race will be well advanced wherever PEDs can add advantage. Undoubtedly we can both immediately name 4 sports where PED abuse must be rife but there has not been a single bust in the days since EPO became the drug of choice. But just like Floyd and Tyler doing drugs because everyone else does, does not make their actions any less criminal because they don't perjure in court and use the legal system to bully and intimidate like Lance, so in comparison, in their sweet little, but highly distorted and disturbed minds. they must be "angels", so, the UCI, running a sport where the cat is so obviously out of the bag, cannot make excuses "we are rubbish but look over there they are even more rubbish than we are, they make us look good". The UCI board need to change their attitude. They need to change it big and they need to change it quick. Incremental c r a p is just an excuse for not having the bottle to deal with it. Kick out Pat, tell him he has been in the seat too long for any good he has done and the same for the rest of the bunch unless they can stomach the purging of the system. Cookson, by not having the bottle to actually call on Pat and not go for reform big style, in the last 12 months, shows that he is no agent for change. To date he has not shown resolve.

To move forward from metaphors from the 17th and early 20th century, to a genre you may prefer, the UCI board are just like the line of the song - the "Law-man, beating up the wrong guy" UCI prosecuting Kimmage, It would be dead easy for Cookson - next meeting - Pat - it is dead simple, either the most humble apology to Kimmage or you go. You have 5 minutes to decide, we are going outside, join us there when you have made up your mind. Even if, and I doubt it would happen, nobody joins Cookson, he can leave and tell the press what he did. Pat and the rest of the gang will then be ripped apart by the press and Cookson can start with a fresh(ish) sheet of paper. He just needs to grow some. 

Tygart is not grandstanding, he has enough evidence to show the link - Lance to Hein and Pat, but it needs Lance to tell it, to make it all stick. Lance is just sorting out where he can put some fire-breaks in the forest before he uses that info in the bargain. It'll come, like the barbarians to Rome. It is just a case of when.

I could not find it but about 3 or 4 years years ago a poster on the clinic put in a post on the Lance story a great little line. "Boys, this just got serious, nothing is going to stop this now. Time to pull a case of beers and the chair and sit and watch. This is going to be one hell of a show."


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## tigger (7 May 2013)

Christ that's a long post


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## oldroadman (27 May 2013)

User said:


> Uefa: New drug-testing plans
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22643157


 
All well and good but will they have the cojones to really do anything - like bans for 2 years - when confronted with all that money and a bunch of weaseling lawyers?
They will look for steroids? Old hat, what needs to be found is blood manipulation and EPO use. Then I will believe they are serious. Oh, and let's not have any action on samples from the past couple of years which come up positive...you can imagine what the presswould do to cycling if that was announced!
Of course, lots of journalists get a very good living from footy and it's best not to rock the boat.


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## johnr (31 May 2013)

User said:


> Uefa: New drug-testing plans
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22643157


 No mention of whether the England football team will get access to the Nike pharmaceutical division along with their new shirt sponsorship.

The trumpeting of new moves to combat racism in the article is ironic given UEFA's decision to hold their under-21 championship in Israel.


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## resal (31 May 2013)

johnr said:


> The trumpeting of new moves to combat racism in the article is ironic given UEFA's decision to hold their under-21 championship in Israel.


That is the men's and women's under 21 championships is it ? Sorry I forgot. 

UEFA want to stamp out racism but sexism is still systemic. That can wait for another couple of decades before that one gets addressed.


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## resal (3 Jun 2013)

User said:


> Fifa elects Burundi's Lydia Nsekera as first woman executive
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22733972


Yes I heard that on Saturday on the radio and thought it was a move in the right direction.

Oldroadman might be preoccupied for a couple of days. I am sure he thinks it a good move too.


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## oldroadman (3 Jun 2013)

resal said:


> Yes I heard that on Saturday on the radio and thought it was a move in the right direction.
> 
> Oldroadman might be preoccupied for a couple of days. I am sure he thinks it a good move too.


 Why preoccupied? If someone is elected on merit then gender is of no consequence. A cynic might say electing an African woman is a smart political move, and I hope it's not simply that, with the flak FIFA have been taking. Thir mext move should be to get rid of the alleged corruption that exists in their organisation. Maybe a brave African woman might start on that from the inside, who knows?


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## thom (16 Jun 2013)

Jamaican sprinter Campbell seems to have been found taking a masking agent.


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## dragon72 (16 Jun 2013)

Only a matter of time before they'll get Bolt.


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## resal (16 Jun 2013)

dragon72 said:


> Only a matter of time before they'll get Bolt.


Jamaican Anti Doping officials were surprised when independent IAAF Officials turned up. Bolt pulled out of the meet. However, against the run of conspiracy strategists, he pulled out on Tuesday and the meet was on the Saturday. So either, entirely plausible or really getting the info well in advance.


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## Noodley (16 Jun 2013)

Athletics pretty much have their heads in the sand - the BBC Athletics commentary and pundit team are a disgrace. 
Football-wise, it's not a coincidence that Italy and Spain seem to feature highly in national competitions and their club teams do likewise on the European scene. 
All governing bodies are complicit in doping.


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## Noodley (16 Jun 2013)

User said:


> to be fair drugs play a minor role in football compared to technique and skill, Italy and Spain have some of the best players in Europe, so will always do well in tournaments ...although that's not to say there isn't a drug problem in football..


 
Are you really Sepp Blatter? 

Doping allows those with skill and technique to keep going and making use of this skill and technique when others become fatigued.


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## 400bhp (16 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> Athletics pretty much have their heads in the sand - t*he BBC Athletics commentary and pundit team are a disgrace.*
> Football-wise, it's not a coincidence that Italy and Spain seem to feature highly in national competitions and their club teams do likewise on the European scene.
> All governing bodies are complicit in doping.


 
In what way?


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## 400bhp (16 Jun 2013)

dragon72 said:


> Only a matter of time before they'll get Bolt.


 

You do realise how good Bolt has been all his life don't you?


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## dragon72 (16 Jun 2013)

400bhp said:


> You do realise how good Bolt has been all his life don't you?


 

I'm well aware of his stellar youth. He's still too quick (for me personally) to believe, and a product of a dodgy system.


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## Noodley (16 Jun 2013)

User said:


> no it doesn't, drugs are mainly used in the recovery from injuries, that's were they get most benefit, if EPO was the drug of choice and all the top teams were using as Armstrong stated  it would be a level playing field, so little or no benefit to the top teams, football very rarely changes the same teams get to the latter stages of tournaments, mostly those with the best players and most games are lost before fatigue becomes on issue, plus 90 minutes for a professional footballer isn't really a problem or 3 games in a week even without drugs but again I not saying drugs are not on issue and not disputing the use of EPO within the game but the Republic of Ireland on EPO would not beat a drug free Brazil 9 times out of 10.. but even the underdog gets lucky once in awhile...


 
You're not getting it are you?


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## rich p (16 Jun 2013)

User said:


> Yes I am, I just don't agree, how and when drugs are used in football,


@Noodley is right, stamina is an essential ingredient in football. I know, I used to have a ciggie at half time.


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## Hip Priest (16 Jun 2013)

If you've got two football teams of a similar level, the team that has been treated with EPO has a signifcant advantage over the team that hasn't, in terms of being able to operate at their physical peak over the course of a match or season.

David Millar described being on EPO as having your best day as an athlete, every day. Now if you're having your best day as a footballer every day, then you're going to be performing better than a paniagua footballer suffering normal human levels of fatigue.


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## Hip Priest (16 Jun 2013)

User said:


> I disagree, EPO isn't going to improve a professional footballer in peak condition enough to make any real difference as to say a cyclist doing 200km a day... 90 minutes just isn't enough time for any great difference in performance, the average of a top professional covers in a game is around 10 - 12km, even a sunday morning player can cover close to these km's so even with a cocktail of drugs this average won't change as football isn't as some believe a game of stamina or endurance, footballers rarely cover more than 20 metre sprints then rest, there are much better drugs than EPO to assist footballers, they are more inline to 100 - 200 metre sprinters than cyclist...


 
Sprinters train for a single all-out effort, which lasts 10-20 seconds. Footballers play for 90 minutes. And if the average pro covers 10-12km per match, then a doped pro could run further, faster, longer and then recover quicker.

If football teams didn't benefit from EPO preparation, then they wouldn't do it. And it seems fairly clear that some footballers, and teams, have used EPO.


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## Hip Priest (16 Jun 2013)

User said:


> footballers don't play for 90 minutes, the game lasts for 90 minutes, football is a game of short bursts of energy with plenty of recovery time in the match...When I was playing drug free 2 90 minutes games on a sunday was doable, morning then an afternoon game but 2 games over the weekend was no problem relatively to my fitness level of course


 
But we aren't talking about park footballers. We're talking about professional footballers - athletes - who are trained to operate at their physical peak. As in any sport, if you've got two opponents of similar ability - both at the peak of their fitness - PEDs can offer one team an advantage over the other.

If you're 120 minutes into a fraught final between two evenly matched top teams, which player do you think is more likely to make the mistake that leads to a match-winning goal? The one who is fatigued or the one who remains fresh & alert?


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## 400bhp (16 Jun 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> But we aren't talking about park footballers. We're talking about professional footballers - athletes - who are trained to operate at their physical peak. As in any sport, if you've got two opponents of similar ability - both at the peak of their fitness - PEDs can offer one team an advantage over the other.
> 
> If you're 120 minutes into a fraught final between two evenly matched top teams, which player do you think is more likely to make the mistake that leads to a match-winning goal? The one who is fatigued or the one who remains fresh & alert?


 

PED's Probably help in injury prevention and rehabilitation too.


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## totallyfixed (16 Jun 2013)

User said:


> a professional footballer in peak condition


Contradiction in terms.


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## Noodley (16 Jun 2013)

So why do we hear managers complaining about too many games and players being tired, not enough recovery time between games, fatigue setting in during games, the temperature being draining, etc?


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## beastie (17 Jun 2013)

totallyfixed said:


> Contradiction in terms.


Bit of a blinkered view that.


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## Crackle (17 Jun 2013)

User said:


> ....I just disagree on the benefits to the 90 minutes of football where skill and technique are more important......
> 
> 
> 
> ...the gap is a lot smaller than you think between "park" football and the professional game....


Just highlighting those two statements, I have my doubts on both. On the first, older players in particular would benefit from something like EPO, because the skill and technique is of no value if you can't keep up with the flow of the game and movement off the ball and most of the running is done off the ball, not with it.

And on the 2nd, it's the fitness and movement that most park players don't have, even if they have the skill, that's why they are park players.


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## smutchin (17 Jun 2013)

User said:


> level playing field


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## Hont (17 Jun 2013)

User said:


> I just don't see the evidence to wide spread use of EPO in football


 
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/dec06/dec08news

Despite the Spanish court's declarations that there were no footballers or tennis players involved in Operacion Puerto, Fuentes said that he did not treat cyclists alone. "I have done the same thing with other sports. I have given advice on treatments for football teams, athletes, and tennis players, among other sports. My professional oath forbids me from revealing their names. There have been only selective leaks. I am indignant about that."


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## smutchin (17 Jun 2013)

There's plenty of circumstantial evidence suggesting widespread use of blood doping in football.

You'll never catch anyone if you don't test for it.


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## rich p (17 Jun 2013)

Well, irish, most people on here and in the world of sport would disagree with you...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/mar/31/football.sport

_D'Hooghe did not name the individuals he believes are cheating but said they were more likely to play for the country's most successful clubs. Players across Europe resort to banned products such as EPO, growth hormone and anabolic steroids to help them cope with the large number of games they play, he said_


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## smutchin (17 Jun 2013)

There have for some time been stories doing the rounds of footballers getting up in the middle of the night to go for a run because they have "excess energy" to burn off.

Can't find any verifiable sources though, so maybe best take that one with a pinch of salt.


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## dragon72 (17 Jun 2013)

That article is from 11 years ago but it's interesting nonetheless.
And appearing on the list of shamed soccerists in that article who have tested + for banned substances is Pep Guardiola who has achieved footballing sainthood already, hasn't he?


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## smutchin (17 Jun 2013)

User said:


> EPO just doesn't makes sense for footballer


 
OK, so you don't agree with the wealth of expert opinion that says otherwise. No worries. That's your prerogative.

The number of footballers caught using EPO probably has a direct relationship to the number tested for it, and the way drug testing is conducted in football.


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## Hont (17 Jun 2013)

User said:


> EPO just doesn't makes sense for footballer


 
Ok, we've pointed you to the evidence that states that EPO is being used by footballers. In what way does improved oxygen delivery to the muscles not make any sense for a footballer?


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## albion (17 Jun 2013)

It ha been said many a time that professional footballers have gone a lifetime without a test.

Still the same?


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## thom (17 Jun 2013)

User said:


> indeed it is..
> 
> there are around 100 tests a season for EPO, no positives to date,
> 
> Juventus are said to have won the 1996 champions league final against Ajax because of EPO but the game finished 1 - 1, juventus won on a penalty shoot out, a lottery, now EPO is accredited to do many things but win penalty shootouts, not to sure on that one  but then again I'm no expert.


And you have no thought process that associates extended performance through extra time, improved freshness and alertness taking penalties with the stamina enhancing properties of EPO ? 
I'd rather be less knackered and able to focus if I had to take a penalty.

Look, I think none of us really know what it feels like to take peds and partake in pro sport - football as an individual event is perhaps less intense an aerobic exercise than football but over the course of a season, the ability to recover and train is crucial. I can well imagine some teams using EPO or some variant with slightly different properties but it's pretty hard for us to know really. People said Fuentes was involved in blood doping during the olympics. All we can do is speculate but I think it is fair to say it was money that was key to people using dope in cycling and there's far more money in football.


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## Hip Priest (17 Jun 2013)

User said:


> Juventus are said to have won the 1996 champions league final against Ajax because of EPO but the game finished 1 - 1, juventus won on a penalty shoot out, a lottery, now EPO is accredited to do many things but win penalty shootouts, not to sure on that one  but then again I'm no expert.


 
If Juventus had been clean, it might not have gone to a shoot-out.


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## laurence (17 Jun 2013)

this is looking a lot like the pharmstrong thread


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## Hip Priest (17 Jun 2013)

User said:


> or either team scored another goal ..


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## Hip Priest (17 Jun 2013)

User said:


> so what if Ajax had won on penalties then what, if Juventus had won 3, 4, 5 - 0 then yes maybe we could blame EPO but they didn't and lets not forget Juventus were a good team, with good players maybe just maybe this is why they won..


 
Your line of reasoning is giving me a headache. I respectively bow out of this discussion.


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## thom (17 Jun 2013)

User said:


> this is kind of what I've been saying, drugs in football? a definite Yes, EPO I'm not so sure of...


your point responding about alertness & substitutes - I don't think it bears analysis, what with the advantages being about increasing probabilities, not making certainties. It is well known that football managers care about their teams being in form for the latter half of the season, not the first. EPO could help footballers maintain high levels of training and fitness throughout a season - its a training drug after all, not a stimulant and it is that fitness that will show at the end of games, particularly ones that drag on through extra time.


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## smutchin (17 Jun 2013)

User said:


> I just don't see how something like EPO and what it does, works in football



Perhaps that's because you're vastly underestimating the physical demands of football at the top level...
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2010/06/physiology-of-football-profile-of-game.html
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2010/06/football-and-fatigue-discovered.html

Really, if you're not spent at the end of 90 minutes, you just haven't been trying hard enough.


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## redcard (17 Jun 2013)

User said:


> So from the 2 links, this is what you gathered, absolute nonsense,
> alright I concede to you all, Spain are reigning world and European champions due to EPO, irrespective of skill and technique...
> some of the comments about football the game and not the drugs, leave me to have doubts if any of you have ever play football, or even watch football, ....
> anyway I have enjoy myself,



You insinuated earlier you'd played football at the highest level. Right?


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## Hont (17 Jun 2013)

I know that no-one likes to admit they're wrong, especially on a forum to what is essentially a collection of strangers. Some people use forums to air their opinions with no real openness to other viewpoints. That I can understand. This has now however crossed the line into Trolldom. And we all know the rule on Trolls.


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## thom (17 Jun 2013)

Hont said:


> And we all know the rule on Trolls.


You're screwed if you're a christian ?!


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## smutchin (17 Jun 2013)

User said:


> So from the 2 links, this is what you gathered, absolute nonsense



With all due respect, I find the objective scientific analysis more compelling than your anecdotal experience.


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## oldroadman (19 Jun 2013)

User said:


> Funny that but I don't recall "if you're not spent at the end of 90 minutes, you just haven't been trying hard enough" as their scientific conclusion, but I say this with all due respect,
> 
> but I see this thread is heading for we know best and I know nothing, so I'll take my anecdotal evidence, which is worthless in the face of so much overwhelming evidence of the wide spread use of EPO in football and bid you a fond fair well, (unless I'm quoted, then it would be rude not to reply )


 
Accepting that top level sport is a physically demanding occupation, and requires skill, talent, determination, dedication, there is always going to be the possibility that some people will take every opportunity to enhance their physical capabilities illegally. This does not take away the other requirements, but can allow stamina to imporve and the skill required to flow more easily. Which is one line of reasoning to think that the use of illegal substances probably happens right across sport, especially where there is big money to be made.


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## tigger (27 Jun 2013)

There has been an unprecedented amount of injuries at Wimbledon this year. The All England Club have stated that the courts have been prepared in the same manner as usual. There have also been the early shock exits of a number of top players including Nadal and Federer. I can't help thinking this is some form of doping avoidance or cover up. We all know that tennis has a drugs problem and that the ITF historically has turned a blind eye and even made cover ups which would make the UCI wince.

Has the net closed in? Was random testing to be ramped up in the third round? Have these players already tested positive and the ITF has given them a route out to spare shame on the sport? Are these genuine injuries but a side effect of a particlar doping regime? I've not researched the individual injuries and I'm sure I'm jumping to conclusions. But... Something's got to be fishy?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...former-wimbledon-champion-lleyton-hewitt.html


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## resal (27 Jun 2013)

tigger said:


> There has been an unprecedented amount of injuries at Wimbledon this year. The All England Club have stated that the courts have been prepared in the same manner as usual. There have also been the early shock exits of a number of top players including Nadal and Federer. I can't help thinking this is some form of doping avoidance or cover up. We all know that tennis has a drugs problem and that the ITF historically has turned a blind eye and even made cover ups which would make the UCI wince.
> 
> Has the net closed in? Was random testing to be ramped up in the third round? Have these players already tested positive and the ITF has given them a route out to spare shame on the sport? Are these genuine injuries but a side effect of a particlar doping regime? I've not researched the individual injuries and I'm sure I'm jumping to conclusions. But... Something's got to be fishy?


Had one hell of a day, no news all day so switched the TV on and watched a bit of the red button Wimbledon to chill. What the heck is going on. I am glad to see I am not the only one with a cynical eyebrow raised. UKADA got permission to test at Wimbledon ? This is as bad as Bolt and his pals pulling out of the Jamaica meet the other week. 

As an aside, the first match on the red button was Sharapova and a Portuguese girl. Now I am all for promoting women's sport, but somebody just has to tell them, this can't go on. All that squealing. It is as entirely unwatchable as McEnroe or Becker with all their gamesmanship. If ever there was a sign that the BBC are irredeemably lousy it is that they worship at the knee of McEnroe. I can remember watching Stephan Edberg go out in a semi to Stich. Absolute pure decency in every action on the court from the guy. Exactly how a sports star should behave. He went out without losing his serve once. Stich seemed barely better than Mr Roll-along-the-floor-I-have-been-hit-by-a-pole-axe-and-need-time-out-Becker. I think they were the prototypes for Klinsman.

These journos just don't seem to have a clue and that's what allows the drug cheats to pull the wool. Any decent journo would be able to get to the bottom of the story about whether PED testing was in place at Wimbledon.


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## Strathlubnaig (27 Jun 2013)

I get the impression that any criticism of Wimbledon and the All England Club is off limits generally (bt the media I mean), it seems to be an Institution beyond reproach, like a bank, I guess....


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## smutchin (27 Jun 2013)

When Nadal went out, I made a glib remark in the office about how he obviously hadn't taken his drugs this week and got a lot of stick for it. 

Me, a cycling fan, suggesting people in other sports use drugs. The very nerve of it!

Ho hum. 

We ran a piece on Wimbledon last week in which there's a quote from a top pundit about how Murray has "suddenly bulked up" and gone from being a scrawny wimp to one of the game's biggest hitters...

This is purely down to how much time he spends in the gym, right? I'd be interested to see some numbers - and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until I do. But I can't help the fact that the alarm bells started going off big time as soon as I read that.


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## Crackle (27 Jun 2013)

tigger said:


> t... Something's got to be fishy?


 
Has it really? I'm not defending tennis, which I'm sure is like any other sport but this is a pretty big leap. Are there doping tests introduced?

As an aside, I didn't see so and so this morning and normally I do. Something's got be going on right, I mean I see him every day......


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## Crackle (27 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> When Nadal went out, I made a glib remark in the office about how he obviously hadn't taken his drugs this week and got a lot of stick for it.
> 
> Me, a cycling fan, suggesting people in other sports use drugs. The very nerve of it!
> 
> ...


 
Murray has come out in favour of doping tests, don't mean nowt and as REO said "....talk is cheap when the story is good and the tales grow taller on down the line....." but in this case I'm not sure I can see it coming.

He did bulk up, consciously, spent some time improving his strength and stamina and if anyone remembers the game at Wimbledon in which he flat out ran out of steam when he was, 17 I think, will know why.


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## rich p (27 Jun 2013)

Christ Al-bleedin'-mighty!
Have I stumbled into The Clinic?


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## Hont (27 Jun 2013)

Some people have slipped over on grass and hurt themselves or aggravated existing injuries. Federer lost to someone playing inspired tennis in perfect conditions for that style.

I can't help thinking this is some form of alien attack.


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## laurence (27 Jun 2013)

glad i'm not the only one who is suspicious.

if they have upped the drug testing, expect a shock exit from some siblings


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## smutchin (27 Jun 2013)

Hont said:


> Some people have slipped over on grass and hurt themselves or aggravated existing injuries. Federer lost to someone playing inspired tennis in perfect conditions for that style.
> 
> I can't help thinking this is some form of alien attack.


 
We're back to the football argument again - tennis is a game of pure skill where drugs couldn't possibly give you an advantage anyway...

Maybe I'm just a jaded old cynic because I've been following cycling too long.


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## BJH (27 Jun 2013)

Mark me down as another cynic too.

First thing I thought when these results came out was that this defies all odds.

I wonder when the last time a similar group of early exits took place for a this number of high seeds in a grand slam???


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## Crackle (27 Jun 2013)

Tennis has long been linked to doping but I would imagine a lot of these injuries are down to players reaching their physical limits in terms of hitting power and physiology, combined with the demands of playing on grass, rare these days and perhaps shoes which are no longer optimised for grass. You see players breaking down a lot at grand slams and it's by no means rare that the top seeds all go out, how do you think Virginia Wade won it?


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## thom (27 Jun 2013)

BJH said:


> Mark me down as another cynic too.
> 
> First thing I thought when these results came out was that this defies all odds.


One should remember that 7 people dropped out before or during the second round yesterday in both womens & mens matches. There are 128 individuals involved at that point so it is about 6% of the total people - in that sense maybe not such an outlier but still notable for the number.


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## smutchin (28 Jun 2013)

Crackle said:


> it's by no means rare that the top seeds all go out


 
For the record, my quip about Rafa Nadal was a joke, albeit one based on actual rumours (which are, of course, nothing more than rumours), and my suspicions around doping in tennis are nothing to do with the number of top seeds dropping out. You always get one or two top seeds going out early - ok, it's unusual when it's this many, this early, but I see no real reason to put that down to anything more than coincidence for the moment - although the numbers thom mentions are _interesting_.



> how do you think Virginia Wade won it?


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## smutchin (28 Jun 2013)

Good old Lance...



> After a lengthy court case concerning Operación Puerto, the Spanish judge decided to have the blood bags which were retrieved from the lab of Dr Fuentes destroyed. “I am sure several football clubs influenced that decision. In any case, it’s still only cycling that serves as a scapegoat.”


 
I'm actually in danger of starting to warm to him for the first time in my life.


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## Buddfox (28 Jun 2013)

I like the comments about McQuaid... you never know, as more comes out this could continue to be interesting for some time to come.


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## oldroadman (29 Jun 2013)

International tennis might be a niche for a former UCI president, there's obviously nothing going on and no use of PEDS, it's a game of skill which goes on for hours and stamina requirements are overcome by said skills - and whacking a ball at speeds in excess of 150kph. So that's all OK then, no need to test for PEDS, or check injuries, treatments, preparation. It's all very clean.


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## thom (3 Jul 2013)

Uefa step up blood testing in Champions & Europa league competitions.


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## Shadow (9 Jul 2013)

Oh dear. We are surely not surprised.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...hips-as-dozens-of-athletes-test-positive.html


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## rich p (9 Jul 2013)

Shadow said:


> Oh dear. We are surely not surprised.
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...hips-as-dozens-of-athletes-test-positive.html


No, you're right, not a surprise and indeed a few of their athletes were fingered in the Olympics by the normally circumspect BBC commentators.


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

Wonder if Sayar is on the list.


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## Crackle (9 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Wonder if Sayar is on the list.


He's on my list.


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## rich p (9 Jul 2013)

This is only athletes though, innit?


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

Ah. I was interpreting "athletes" more broadly, but it seems to be only track & field. It does seem to hint at a possible DDR-style state-sponsored doping programme, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were at it in other sports too.


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## rich p (10 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Wonder if Sayar is on the list.


I see from the results of the 3rd stage at the Tour of Qinghai that your mate Sayar has DNFed after losing 21 minutes on stage 2. He must have gone of the boil
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-of-qinghai-lake-2013/stage-2/results


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## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Hot on the heels of the news that Tyson Gay has tested positive...

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/latest/article.php?id=46469#.UeLLHPUL_6k.twitter


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## laurence (14 Jul 2013)

oh what a surprise.


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## Flying_Monkey (14 Jul 2013)

And Asafa Powell tested positive last month. Looks like Usain Bolt is losing his competition rapidly...


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## Crackle (15 Jul 2013)

And yay, yee shall use the 'supplement' defense..

Gay's statement was interesting:-

_"I don’t have a sabotage story. I put my trust in someone and was let down. I don’t have anything to say to make this seem like it was a mistake or it was on USADA’s (United States Anti-Doping Agency) hands, someone playing games. I don’t have any of those stories. I made a mistake. I know exactly what went on, but I can’t discuss it right now. I hope I am able to run again, but I will take whatever punishment I get like a man"_


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## smutchin (15 Jul 2013)

At least he's owning up to it, more or less.

Unlike Asafa Powell, whose statement suggests he thinks we're all as stupid as he is.


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## oldroadman (15 Jul 2013)

Odd how tyeh Jamican ADA never seems to find anyone who shows a non-negative result, yet when the athletes go to other countries (US for instance) some interetsing things come to light.


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## smutchin (15 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I see from the results of the 3rd stage at the Tour of Qinghai that your mate Sayar has DNFed after losing 21 minutes on stage 2. He must have gone of the boil
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-of-qinghai-lake-2013/stage-2/results


 
Hey, Rich, you'll never guess what I've just heard...


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## Flying_Monkey (16 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Hey, Rich, you'll never guess what I've just heard...


 
Yup, it's in the Tour of Turkey thread... least surprising finding of the year.


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## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

Wonder if Cunego will start tomorrow's stage in light of this news.


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## Crackle (19 Jul 2013)

User said:


> Ballan, Cunego, Rasmussen indicted on doping charges
> 
> http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/ballan_cunego_rasmussen_indicted_on_doping_charges/


Oy! Other sports..

I was looking for the Mantova thread before, is there one or was it just part of another?


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## thom (19 Jul 2013)

User said:


> more names here, it seems all involved with Lampre
> 
> http://www.france24.com/en/20130719-cyclist-cunego-among-28-people-charged-with-doping


Liking your post not quite appropriate - thanks for drawing attention to this.
What a nasty bunch ?!


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## Crackle (19 Jul 2013)

Original thread on Mantova

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/mantova-drug-investigations.74657/#post-1362960


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## Strathlubnaig (26 Jul 2013)

Was this posted elsewhere ? Serb tennis player banned.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...spended-for-doping-violation/article13437398/


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## rich p (26 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Was this posted elsewhere ? Serb tennis player banned.
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...spended-for-doping-violation/article13437398/


This bit is telling...
_The ITF website says it conducted only 21 out-of-competition blood tests in professional tennis in 2011 compared to 3,314 carried out by cycling’s world governing UCI_


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## smutchin (26 Jul 2013)

Come on, Rich - as we all know, tennis doesn't have a problem so there's no need for more testing.


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## lanternerouge (26 Jul 2013)

Have people read this article? Changed the way I view PEDs in sport. Especially for those sports which are "skills based"...

"He took the steroids that winter and something incredible did happen: He got better.
"I was, at best, an average hitter," Horn says. "A good fastball could tie me up. When I had the stuff in me I could get to those pitches easier. With steroids you could do those things you otherwise couldn't do. The things that kept you in the minor leagues all of a sudden didn't hold you back anymore.
"It's not like you could take a guy off the street, give him steroids and he can hit a Jered Weaver fastball. But if you have the ability to do it, you can get a little help doing things you were not able to do."


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/magazine/05/29/baseball.steroids/index.html#ixzz2a8gIS5nz


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## User169 (26 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> This bit is telling...
> _The ITF website says it conducted only 21 out-of-competition blood tests in professional tennis in 2011 compared to 3,314 carried out by cycling’s world governing UCI_


 
Ten Dam tweeted this morning that he got back to his own house for the first time since TdF at 01:00. 06:15 - woken up for control!


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## oldroadman (26 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Was this posted elsewhere ? Serb tennis player banned.
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...spended-for-doping-violation/article13437398/


 He was given 18 months off (less than the usual 2 years, and a lot less than the new sanction of 4 years that WADA - correctly - want for a first offence) because he simply refused a test clain=ming not to be well. Refusal = non-negative = 2 years off. Or is tennis a special case where pathetic excuses are acceptable and get you a discount on suspension?


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## Crackle (5 Aug 2013)

Some of you may have read this today

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/aug/05/west-germany-doping-athletes-report

alleged involvement of the West German Govt of the time in a doping program for West German athletes in the 70's. The online version has been changed from the printed version which was more certain about the governments involvement.

I suppose I shouldn't really be surprised by this report but I find I still am.


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## resal (6 Aug 2013)

Crackle - I am exactly with you. I chastised myself - why has it taken so long for the penny to drop in my brain - of course they would run a matching program.

Had Moores book out from the library over the holiday - the dirtiest race in history. It makes me wonder why I ever thought well about these people. A little mention is made in it of of Alan Wells in 1980. I always thought his victory in the 100m was most under-rated. That tale is duplicated by Moore. I thought that right until I discovered that Angus Fraser, the soigneur who worked with Doyle and others had quite a business supplying out of Meadowbank. Cyclists were only a few of his clients. Apparently he bragged about the sprint athletes he supplied. He was the guy who was CONVICTED in the USA of injecting juniors on the USA program with a cocktail of steroids without informing the cyclists what they were. Court case won by victims, 16 years later in 2006. His program manager was one Chris Carmichael, who elected to settle out of court. Fraser was also soigneur for Shane Sutton on the ANC Halfords team around this time. That same Shane Sutton who is whiter than white on the Sky program. Lance popped through the same Junior program with Carmichael at the helm 12 months after the lads who were in court all those years later.


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## brodiej (6 Aug 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Was this posted elsewhere ? Serb tennis player banned.
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...spended-for-doping-violation/article13437398/



Indeed. Troicki was reaching the end of his career.

However Marin Cilic has just been accused

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...after-claims-of-failed-drug-test-8744506.html

He is a top player and only 24. Lost to Murray in this year's Queens final.
Interestingly one of the many who dropped out of Wimbledon citing injury in the 1st few days.
Makes you wonder...
He blames high glucose levels!!


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## Strathlubnaig (6 Aug 2013)

Baseball..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23578738


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## Shadow (6 Aug 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Baseball..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23578738


 
Again, no real surprise here. Major League Baseball (MLB) is so behind cycling and other sports regarding testing in spite of what the suits tell the media. 
Also, the punishments are so, so lenient, they do not act as a deterrent. (first offence = 50 game ban; regular season = 162 games!!). 
The good news appears to be that the clean and/or younger players want the cheats out of the sport and are not providing much support to those suspended.


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## J1780 (6 Aug 2013)

Crackle said:


> Some of you may have read this today
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/aug/05/west-germany-doping-athletes-report
> 
> ...


 
Its not surprising at all. Doping is a real problem in too many professional and even amateur sports. The worst of all is the fact that due to privacy laws the judge in the puerto case would not release the blood bags to be tested. Some number of athletes/sports people relieved there.


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## just jim (8 Aug 2013)

"report a shocking wake up call" http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/23605334
"...instead of WADA being recognised "as the leader in the fight against doping in sport and supported by the stakeholders, it is viewed as an irritant"


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## J1780 (8 Aug 2013)

just jim said:


> "report a shocking wake up call"
> "...instead of WADA being recognised "as the leader in the fight against doping in sport and supported by the stakeholders, it is viewed as an irritant"


Exactly, thanks for the link and sadly too many sports don't really want to know about drug testing at all. They are afraid of loosing 'fans'


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## oldroadman (8 Aug 2013)

Summary. Cycling cleans up very publicly, names convicted dopers, carries on testing. Governing bodies and fans in other sports are nuch relieved, and point fingers at "ditry cyclists". The same NGBs and fans who are ready to believe outstanding performances from previously mediocre performers, and who don't need to test because there is no problem. Simple. Fans retained, performances stellar, money rolls in...
This sort of stuff makes the IOC and UCI look almost well run!


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## beastie (8 Aug 2013)

Athletics is moving to a four year ban in 2015, whether WADA does or not. UCI should follow suit.


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## Hont (20 Aug 2013)

No out of competition tests for Jamaican athletes in the three months prior to London Olympics and only 1 in the five months prior...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mo...ng-in-jamaican-track-and-field/?sct=mr_t11_a2


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## Noodley (20 Aug 2013)

beastie said:


> Athletics is moving to a four year ban in 2015, whether WADA does or not. UCI should follow suit.


They can move to whatever they like given the p7ss poor testing of athletes.


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## johnr (21 Aug 2013)

Crackle said:


> Some of you may have read this today
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/aug/05/west-germany-doping-athletes-report
> 
> ...


 This kind of rewrites the popular version of the history of doping - evil Soviet bloc dopers vs. plucky western individuals.


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## beastie (21 Aug 2013)

Noodley said:


> They can move to whatever they like given the p7ss poor testing of athletes.


Testing is improving in athletics, but I agree with your sentiment.


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## oldroadman (21 Aug 2013)

beastie said:


> Testing is improving in athletics, but I agree with your sentiment.


 Yes it is, but far too slowly. When they test in the same percentage and proportion of non-notice out of competition tests as cycling, then we can believe they are attempting a clean up.
Anyone fancy a nice off-season trip to the Caribbean?
Resal mentioned the book "The dirtiest race in history". Completely agree, it's a brilliant read and makes you wonder about a lot of others who were not in that race but still did very nicely in their sport, multiple gold winners and the like. The USA really does not come out of it too well, along with the "usual suspects" from those days.
Then of course after tennis comes footy, rugby, and the American sports (where respect for the rules seems to be an option).
Glad I was/am only a jobbing/retired/pottering bike rider. It's nice to be able to answer your kids honestly when they ask the question.


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## oldroadman (21 Aug 2013)

oldroadman said:


> Yes it is, but far too slowly. When they test in the same percentage and proportion of non-notice out of competition tests as cycling, then we can believe they are attempting a clean up.
> Anyone fancy a nice off-season trip to the Caribbean?
> Resal mentioned the book "The dirtiest race in history". Completely agree, it's a brilliant read and makes you wonder about a lot of others who were not in that race but still did very nicely in their sport, multiple gold winners and the like. The USA really does not come out of it too well, along with the "usual suspects" from those days.
> Then of course after tennis comes footy, rugby, and the American sports (where respect for the rules seems to be an option).
> *Glad I was/am only a jobbing/retired/pottering bike rider. It's nice to be able to answer your kids honestly when they ask the question.*




Talking of which, it's a beautiful evening and time for a nice little potter round the lanes


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## montage (21 Aug 2013)

oldroadman said:


> Talking of which, it's a beautiful evening and time for a nice little potter round the lanes


 


Come out of the shadows Obi Wan


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## oldroadman (21 Aug 2013)

Will when I can get out...nice and summer evening cool now. I might go a bit faster!


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## Hont (22 Aug 2013)

Hont said:


> No out of competition tests for Jamaican athletes in the three months prior to London Olympics and only 1 in the five months prior...
> 
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mo...ng-in-jamaican-track-and-field/?sct=mr_t11_a2


 

WADA now warning Jamaican athletics body of Olympics expulsion.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...rom-Olympics-over-drugs-testing-failings.html

Can't see it happening, given how much sponsorship money is involved.


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## Beebo (25 Sep 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> I get the impression that any criticism of Wimbledon and the All England Club is off limits generally (bt the media I mean), it seems to be an Institution beyond reproach, like a bank, I guess....


 Well well well, Marin Cilic withdrew citing an injury to avoid bad publicity but now admits it was due to a failed drug test. Did the All england Club know this?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/24224432


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## smutchin (25 Sep 2013)

Presumably they did know about it, and I can kind of understand why all parties concerned would want the news to be kept quiet pending the official hearing, so I'm not too fussed on that score, but "inadvertently ingested" is just bullshit and there's no excuse.

Not heard of Nikethamide before but after a wee bit of googling, I conclude that you'd have to be an utter farking idiot to "inadvertently" ingest it.

[edit: on further reading, it seems Cilic claims to have ingested it in the form of the Coramine brand glucose tablets. Coramine, afaict, is another name for Nikethamide. Professional sportsmen should by now know better than to take medicines/supplements they've not used before without checking these things first, surely? It's taken me no more than a couple of minutes to dig this information up.]


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## thom (25 Sep 2013)

smutchin said:


> Not heard of Nikethamide before but after a wee bit of googling, I conclude that you'd have to be an utter f***ing idiot to "inadvertently" ingest it.


Sounds like he put his foot in his mouth


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## Hont (4 Oct 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/24377883

*sigh*


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## smutchin (4 Oct 2013)

Bet Franck Schleck is overjoyed for her.


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## thom (4 Oct 2013)

Hont said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/24377883
> 
> *sigh*


Sounds like WADA may appeal - it will be a clear sign to the Jamaican ADA to watch out in a wider sense if they do.


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## Flying_Monkey (4 Oct 2013)

The Jamaican atheltics governing body gets away with an awful lot.


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## thom (14 Oct 2013)

WADA make an extraordinary trip to Jamaica !


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## Noodley (14 Oct 2013)

thom said:


> WADA make an extraordinary trip to Jamaica !



Here's hoping they get arrow-boy and his mates


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## rich p (9 Nov 2013)

This sort of reaction makes you despair
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/24831468
Given that Troicki missed a test because he didn't feel well - what a feeble excuse - this is a strange quote from Djokovic
"It's just not bad news for him," said Djokovic. "It makes me nervous as a player to do any kind of test."


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## smutchin (9 Nov 2013)

User said:


> Murray not helping either* on Cilic and Troicki*:



Not helping? I think his words are pretty damning of both. He makes the point quite firmly that there can be no excuses - I heard the interview on the radio earlier and his tone of voice is noticeably angry, especially with regard to Cilic.

He's entitled to his view that they're not hardcore dopers, but he still seems to think they should both be punished, so his thinking is definitely on the right lines. 

Djokovic, on the other hand, is a weasel and if I were a tennis fan, I would feel very disappointed by his comments.


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## SWSteve (10 Nov 2013)

User said:


> I didn't hear the interview but in print it looked like he wasn't really condemning them for doping just being unprofessional...but I more than gladly accept he was more damming than I realised...



watch: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/24872914

He doesn't seem a happy bunny


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## oldroadman (11 Nov 2013)

As examples of big money sport, tennis and athletics authorities and players clearly don't want to confront difficult questions like "there almost certainly be a proportion of players who will be tempted to dope and do so". Until the regime is at least as rigorous as cycling, with the same level of testing, there are very good grounds for suspiscious fingers to be pointed. After all, tennis players freely admit to using needles for "re-hydration and recovery" between matches, something which is now banned ubder UCI regs, and a good thing too! It was enough as a rider, even years ago, to have doctors always wanting blood samples for testing, makes you feel like a pin cushion!


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## smutchin (11 Nov 2013)

User said:


> I didn't hear the interview but in print it looked like he wasn't really condemning them for doping just being unprofessional...but I more than gladly accept he was more damming than I realised...



To be fair, the angry tone of voice doesn't exactly come across in print, does it? Plus I think the online report didn't use all his words, only selected quotes.


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## Strathlubnaig (12 Nov 2013)

Another raft of 3 month bans on the horizon maybe... http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/24900565


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## deptfordmarmoset (12 Nov 2013)

I caught a snippet of a WADA chappie this morning talking about doping clusters, referring to Kenya and Jamaica. It appears that there is virtually no anti-doping enforcement in Kenya as it's run voluntarily. I was surprised to hear him say that, at least in the short term, there was nothing they could do because they lack the power to force Kenya to change its ways.


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## User169 (12 Nov 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I caught a snippet of a WADA chappie this morning talking about doping clusters, referring to Kenya and Jamaica. It appears that there is virtually no anti-doping enforcement in Kenya as it's run voluntarily. I was surprised to hear him say that, at least in the short term, there was nothing they could do because they lack the power to force Kenya to change its ways.



There have been a couple of pieces in the Guardian recently about Jamaica and Kenya.

An ex-tester in Jamaica claimed that the recent positives are the tip of the iceberg. The govt sports minister replied by saying Jamaican athletes are the most tested in the world. Where have we heard that before?

In Kenya, the officialargument seemed to be that they live and race in Europe during the season, so do get tested. 

Of course, as the Jamaican tester said, if you get caught in a race test, you've failed an IQ test as much as a dope test.

All in all, it's the same old crappy excuses.


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## Hont (12 Nov 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> There have been a couple of pieces in the Guardian recently about Jamaica and Kenya.



There's been talk of a blood doping ring in Kenya for some time amongst athletic circles. Not just kenyans either. Athletes who train there. Hmm can I think of a very successful distance athlete who trains in Kenya?

As for Jamaican sprinters: is it plausible that a small, relatively poor island can be that successful (8 out of the 12 individual medals in London 2012)? I share the view of Dr Wright, I think the recent positives are the tip of the iceberg.


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## 400bhp (12 Nov 2013)

I think the wheels are going to fall off in athletics shortly. 

At the moment, the media hasn't really grabbed the stories to get the public's attention. The Russia and Turkey situation are a bl00dy joke but probably a lot to do with being "inferior" countries to us not being of interest to the main media.

I love athletics and it's probably my 2nd favourite sport but it's really lost it's way.


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## 400bhp (12 Nov 2013)

Hont said:


> There's been talk of a blood doping ring in Kenya for some time amongst athletic circles. Not just kenyans either. Athletes who train there. Hmm can I think of a very successful distance athlete who trains in Kenya?
> 
> As for Jamaican sprinters:* is it plausible that a small, relatively poor island can be that successful (8 out of the 12 individual medals in London 2012)? I share the view of Dr Wright, I think the recent positives are the tip of the iceberg*.



It can-success breeds success and all that.


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## deptfordmarmoset (12 Nov 2013)

Ooh look, Brazil, hosts for the Olympics and the World Cup does not have an international standard anti-doping facility. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24920230

FIFA's going to fly samples to Lausanne, CH, for the WC. No idea about the Olympics.


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## dragon72 (13 Nov 2013)

I'm afraid that, for me at least, with athletics, just as with pro-cycling, now it's a case of guilty until proven innocent. 
The elephant in the room is Usain Bolt. I know that he's got form going back to childhood when generally one doesn't dope, but come on: he runs 9.58 seconds on panyagua while his buddies are all juiced?
Oh yeah, and Big Jensie and Spartacus never touched a drop either.


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## shouldbeinbed (13 Nov 2013)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...nd-using-a-fake-penis-to-avoid-detection.html

just think what he'd have done clean and sober or juiced to improve his performance.


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## thom (13 Nov 2013)

Interesting article about the lack of teeth/resources in WADA


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## oldroadman (14 Nov 2013)

shouldbeinbed said:


> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...nd-using-a-fake-penis-to-avoid-detection.html
> 
> just think what he'd have done clean and sober or juiced to improve his performance.


 
The Tyson quote about a fake body part potentially says a lot more about useless procedures at the testing (or unwillingness to find a problem) than anything else. He's quoting a test in Glasgow where his false organ was used. Now either he is being very economical with the facts, or has a poor memory, or the boxing authorities were relaxed, to say the least, in their approach to finding anything wrong. If I recall correctly, when you are tested it's stripped from knees to shoulders, which does not leave mush chance of using a fake organ, provided of course the procedure is followed and the tester is watching. All very odd, isn't it?


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## rich p (14 Nov 2013)

oldroadman said:


> The Tyson quote about a fake body part potentially says a lot more about useless procedures at the testing (or unwillingness to find a problem) than anything else. He's quoting a test in Glasgow where his false organ was used. Now either he is being very economical with the facts, or has a poor memory, or the boxing authorities were relaxed, to say the least, in their approach to finding anything wrong. If I recall correctly, when you are tested it's stripped from knees to shoulders, which does not leave mush chance of using a fake organ, provided of course the procedure is followed and the tester is watching. All very odd, isn't it?


 Twasn't always thus though ORM...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Pollentier


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## oldroadman (14 Nov 2013)

rich p said:


> Twasn't always thus though ORM...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Pollentier


 I wondered when that would come up - his little plastic pipe effort was a bit pathetic, and I'm pleased it was found. 
Unlike Mr Tyson, whose "falsie" was never detected. Then if you don't look too hard, you don't see much. Draw your own conclusions.


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## thom (15 Nov 2013)

I think I heard Seb Coe on the Today program this morning complaining that Athletics was being singled out unfairly for having a drugs program.
edit : i meant problem, not program….


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## smutchin (15 Nov 2013)

thom said:


> I think I heard Seb Coe on the Today program this morning complaining that Athletics was being singled out unfairly for having a drugs program...



Yes. He also came out with the immortal - and strangely familiar - line that it's not fair to suspect Usain Bolt because he's "the world's most tested athlete". 

I always was more of an Ovett fan.


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## Crankarm (15 Nov 2013)

oldroadman said:


> The Tyson quote about a fake body part potentially says a lot more about useless procedures at the testing (or unwillingness to find a problem) than anything else. He's quoting a test in Glasgow where his false organ was used. Now either he is being very economical with the facts, or has a poor memory, or the boxing authorities were relaxed, to say the least, in their approach to finding anything wrong. If I recall correctly, when you are tested it's stripped from knees to shoulders, which does not leave mush chance of using a fake organ, provided of course the procedure is followed and the tester is watching. All very odd, isn't it?



Of course he could be asked to prove it wasn't fake ....................


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## Hont (19 Nov 2013)

This is potentially massive...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...hods-reveal-hundreds-of-positive-results.html


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## rich p (19 Nov 2013)

Hont said:


> This is potentially massive...
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...hods-reveal-hundreds-of-positive-results.html


 Yep! It could expose cycling as a clean sport relatively
I'm guessing anabolic steroids weren't a favourite drug of cyclists?


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## smutchin (19 Nov 2013)

rich p said:


> I'm guessing anabolic steroids weren't a favourite drug of cyclists?



Maybe by track cyclists, perhaps?


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## rich p (19 Nov 2013)

smutchin said:


> Maybe by track cyclists, perhaps?


 Possibly!


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## oldroadman (20 Nov 2013)

Hmmm...IOC likely to let all the results and names go public when they have a massive world wide business (and gravy train) to consider? Maybe? Are Hein and Pat McQ not IOC members, along with 100+ others who have a vested interest in keeping the Olympics as high profile - in the right way - as possible?
Oh me of little faith!


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## User169 (20 Nov 2013)

oldroadman said:


> Hmmm...IOC likely to let all the results and names go public when they have a massive world wide business (and gravy train) to consider? Maybe? Are Hein and Pat McQ not IOC members, along with 100+ others who have a vested interest in keeping the Olympics as high profile - in the right way - as possible?
> Oh me of little faith!


 
Just to clarify, McQuaid isn't an IOC member. Verbruggen is an Honorary Member, so has no voting rights.


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## thom (20 Nov 2013)

oldroadman said:


> Hmmm...IOC likely to let all the results and names go public when they have a massive world wide business (and gravy train) to consider? Maybe? Are Hein and Pat McQ not IOC members, along with 100+ others who have a vested interest in keeping the Olympics as high profile - in the right way - as possible?
> Oh me of little faith!


I thought that WADA oversaw all the Olympic testing. If this gets brushed under the carpet then that itself would be a bigger scandal than the doping problem. WADA & the Olympics would be seriously badly damaged.


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## Ganymede (23 Nov 2013)

Well lookee here.... 

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/nov/23/jamaica-jadco-resignations-wada-drugs


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## 400bhp (23 Nov 2013)

Bribery?


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## oldroadman (23 Nov 2013)

Ganymede said:


> Well lookee here....
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/nov/23/jamaica-jadco-resignations-wada-drugs


 
I like how the authorites think that a "public warning" (what's that??) is sufficient warning for taking a banned diuretic. That's doping, or possibly masking something "heavier". Two years off please and no excuses. If it's correct for cycling....We may have had and still have a (hopefully) dimishing problem, but at least it's acknowledged, unlike the head in the sand attitude of some sports and countries. Jamaica and Kenya in particular (plus maybe other african countries) are so lacking in any resolve they are a joke. Or would be if they were not winning so much, or in Africa, hosting training trips for so many athletes from other countries. This is going the way of people having to prove they are clean, not the other way round. So now they will know just how clean riders feel!


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## smutchin (3 Feb 2014)

http://m.theage.com.au/sport/tennis...at-davis-cup-drug-testing-20140202-31uol.html

*spang!*


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## oldroadman (3 Feb 2014)

Welcome to the real world of anti-doping, Mr Hewitt. Although if a press conference is scheduled, the haperones can go in to ensure that there is no opportunity for the athlete to do anyhing before the first post-match sample is taken. Just takes organising. If you are a bit dehydrated, then you drink steadily and have to wait until teh required volume of urine is collected. I'm surprised an experienced professional does not know that, or indeed why he let himself get so hydrated. Tennis matches stop every few minutes for a refreshment break and a rest.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (3 Feb 2014)

Sounds like lax testing if he's never had to do it before!!


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## Crackle (25 Feb 2014)

Sochi had a number of positives

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/feb/23/sochi-2014-johannes-duerr-epo-test-olympics

Most worrying was this report, don't know if anyone saw it

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-drug-evidence-world-anti-doping-agency-sochi


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## Hont (25 Feb 2014)

The depressing thing is that none of that surprises me. You only have to look at the nature of cross-country skiing and long-track speed skating and you can see how successful doping would be on performance.


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## rich p (19 Mar 2014)

On the face of it this sounds exciting - more sensitive dope testing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26636371
It's even being led by Dr Armstrong in an ironic twist, but the end of the article says that it won't work for blood dopoing or HGH.


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## thom (19 Mar 2014)

rich p said:


> On the face of it this sounds exciting - more sensitive dope testing.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26636371
> It's even being led by Dr Armstrong in an ironic twist, but the end of the article says that it won't work for blood dopoing or HGH.


Yeah it will be good at identifying molecules that don't naturally occur in the body.

I wonder what it would show up in retests of old samples...


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## rich p (19 Mar 2014)

It can also apparently show up usage over the last two years - if they were to test now and apply this method, then some may be quaking a little.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (29 May 2014)

Doping in Football (which I think someone on here said didn't happen, no benefit as it's a game of skill...):
http://www.4dfoot.com/2013/02/09/doping-in-football-fifty-years-of-evidence/


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## rich p (29 May 2014)

It's covering old ground but any drug that enables you to keep going longer and stronger, will enable you to keep your skills going longer too. It won't make you be able to pass any better but will lengthen the time before weakness and tiredness become a factor.
Just as much as EPO, say, would keep Dirty Bertie's cute little bottom bobbing up and down longer on the Tourmalet


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## User169 (30 May 2014)

User said:


> If I remember it was certain drugs made more sense than others and in all likelihood drugs were a problem but saying that it is a game of skill and no drug is going to change that...


 
Looking at the CL final last week, Real seemed to have just that extra bit of fitness that allowed them to maintain higher skill levels into extra time as compared to Atletico.


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## Hont (30 May 2014)

That's an interesting read. It won't convince those with their heads in the sand, but it deserves wider circulation.


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## smutchin (28 Jul 2014)

I'm wary of saying anything potentially libellous, but if a footballer fails a medical at his prospective new club and his old club say he has no current injury problems or underlying medical conditions, what are we to assume?

Hmmmm?

I suspect in the case I'm thinking of it's more likely to be something recreational than something performance enhancing, but probably something on the banned list, all the same.


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## laurence (28 Jul 2014)

ah, the old 'football is a game of skill so they don't nee drugs" response. sure, because there were no footballers on fuentes' list. also, pure coincidence that the winners of the 1998 world cup were the home team, who knew that the police were after le Tour and not them. i'm sure certain players' sudden lack of form that year was also a coincidence.

football is as riddled with drugs of all kinds, but the money to cover it is bigger.


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## Hont (8 Aug 2014)

Interesting column on doping in athletics...

http://www.rte.ie/sport/athletics/2014/0808/635892-column-gillick-discusses-doping-in-athletics/

_"When I was in the States for nine months, I never saw one of the Caribbean athletes tested."_

I think that's a very much "read between the lines" comment.


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## smutchin (8 Aug 2014)

Good piece, that.


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## brodiej (8 Aug 2014)

Just read "inverting the pyramid" by Jonathan Wilson
Interesting history of football tactics
He raises the point that total football as practised by Ajax in the 70s was built on the need for extra energy to keep pressing gor 90 minutes

This was achieved, he argues, by doping.

Of course the modern Barcelona way came from that Ajax team via Michels and Cruyff taking their philosophy to Spain.

Here's a quote from the book

"We could play sixty minutes of pressing,’ Swart said. ‘I’ve never seen any other club anywhere who could do that.’ Within a few years, Lobanovskyi’s Dynamo certainly could, but there was no one else, which raises the question of how they were able to maintain that intensity for so long. Both Ajax and Dynamo invested significantly in the science of preparation, working on nutrition and training schema, but both also looked to pharmaceutical means.
In an interview he game to the magazine Vrij Nederland in 1973, Hulshoff spoke of having been given drugs ahead of a match against Real Madrid six years earlier: ‘We took the pills in combination with what we always called chocolate sprinkles,’ he said. ‘What it was I don’t know, but you felt as strong as iron and suffered no breathlessness. One disadvantage was you lost all saliva, so after thirty-five minutes of the game I was retching.’
Salo Müller, who was Ajax’s masseur between 1959 and 1972, admitted as much in his autobiography, published in 2006, and revealed that Hulshoff and Johnny Rep had both come to him with concerns over pills given them by John Rollink, the club doctor. Over time, Müller collected pills Rollink had distributed from other sportsmen and had them analysed. ‘The results were not a surprise to me,’ he wrote. ‘They ranged from painkillers, muscle relaxants and tranquilising pills to amphetamine capsules.’
Even before joining Ajax, Rollink had form. The first drugs scandal to hit Dutch sport came at the 1960 Rome Olympics, when a female swimmer took two prescriptions from a team-mate’s bag and gave them to the press. A doctor said one was indicative of doping, pure and simple, and that the other was likely to be part of a programme of drug use: Rollink’s signature was on one of the prescriptions. He later left the Dutch Cycling Union when doping controls were instituted, and said that Ajax would have refused to comply had doping controls been brought in to Dutch football. He even admitted to taking amphetamines himself if he was working late. It may have been the systematic drugs programmes of the Soviet bloc that attracted the greatest attention, but they were certainly not the only ones at it.
Michels was the father of Total Football, and he carried it on at Barcelona"


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## 400bhp (8 Aug 2014)

Hont said:


> Interesting column on doping in athletics...
> 
> http://www.rte.ie/sport/athletics/2014/0808/635892-column-gillick-discusses-doping-in-athletics/
> 
> ...



I think athletics stinks to high heaven. I can't believe Gatlin is still running.

Risk vs reward. Low risk of being caught x short ban if caught. Reward is hardly affected by a ban. 2 year ban is a feckin joke.


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## Joshua Plumtree (10 Aug 2014)

If anyone really thinks football is primarily a game of skill, just look at the type of young kids selected for Youth Academy teams (especially in this country).

Like most sports, the game is based on pace, power, balance and stamina. If you lack those attributes, no matter how skilful you are, the chances of making the cut are next to zero.

You could argue that players like Iniesta and Zavi disprove this, but both these players possess great natural upper body strength and are extremely quick over the first five or six yards (at least they were!). Put either in a local pub team and everyone would be commenting on how fast and sharp they were.

So, in answer to the question, any footballer would gain a perceivable short term advantage from doping.


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## Crackle (7 Oct 2014)

Interesting article on the BBC today. It specifically highlights Justin Gatlin's performances but the thrust of the report is about a study which shows that the effect of PED's can last way beyond their use and beyond most current and proposed bans.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/29510575

Link to study page of the UiO

http://www.mn.uio.no/ibv/english/re...ig-dopingbruk-kan-ha-permanente-effekter.html


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## Beebo (7 Oct 2014)

This graphic taken from the link posted by @Crackle is quite sad. Especially if historic drug use improves future performance.
4 out of 5 all time 100m sprinters have failed tests. The only one who hasnt is Bolt, and if he ever fails the sport will be rocked to its core.


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## Hont (7 Oct 2014)

Beebo said:


> The only one who hasnt is Bolt, and if he ever fails the sport will be rocked to its core.


When you look at that graphic, he shouldn't really need to fail for people to realise what's going on. For the sport's sake, I think it would actually be a good thing for Bolt to get found out, otherwise the situation is never going to change.


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## smutchin (7 Oct 2014)

Hont said:


> When you look at that graphic, he shouldn't really need to fail for people to realise what's going on. For the sport's sake, I think it would actually be a good thing for Bolt to get found out, otherwise the situation is never going to change.



Hmmm. The most successful athlete in his field and yet the only one to have "never tested positive". Why does this remind me of something?


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## 400bhp (7 Oct 2014)

Gatlin up for athlete of the year.


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## oldroadman (7 Oct 2014)

smutchin said:


> Hmmm. The most successful athlete in his field and yet the only one to have "never tested positive". Why does this remind me of something?


Someone famous for his "lunch box"? Who was eventually pinged, but only long after all the major successes? Almost as if the authorities didn't really want to find out?


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## resal (7 Oct 2014)

oldroadman said:


> Someone famous for his "lunch box"? Who was eventually pinged, but only long after all the major successes? Almost as if the authorities didn't really want to find out?


Christie was positive at Seoul. Sadly his GB team reps managed to talk for long enough until some of the panel fell asleep and then a vote was taken and he was let off. Dirtiest race in History - Richard Moore. I disliked his book on Millar and quite a lot of Moore's other work on cycling but really liked how he came at Athletics. Back into the time of Andy Norman and Frank Dick here. The model for British sporting Federations not wanting to find positives. 

If you acknowledge that the domino that is Christie is over, it knocks down quite some chain. 'Nuff respect.


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## oldroadman (9 Oct 2014)

resal said:


> Christie was positive at Seoul. Sadly his GB team reps managed to talk for long enough until some of the panel fell asleep and then a vote was taken and he was let off. * Dirtiest race in History - Richard Moore*. I disliked his book on Millar and quite a lot of Moore's other work on cycling but really liked how he came at Athletics. Back into the time of Andy Norman and Frank Dick here. The model for British sporting Federations not wanting to find positives.
> 
> If you acknowledge that the domino that is Christie is over, it knocks down quite some chain. 'Nuff respect.



Yep, read that, quite a piece of investigative journalism. The way that a sport simply buried things in pursuit of the dollar and image. Makes you wonder how far it all spread and the lengths they would go to protect their competitors. If you don't check properly and rigorously, you don't have a problem...! Too much money and career investment to risk bad publicity and sponsorship being pulled.


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## resal (21 Oct 2014)

oldroadman said:


> Yep.....Too much money and career investment to risk bad publicity and sponsorship being pulled.


 Hold the mirror up to .........

On two occasions I was at events where Christie was present. At one, he was there as alpha male with his pack of Nuff Respect. This was at a time after Seoul and before his positive that stuck. At the time I had no idea he had tested positive at Seoul. The effect he and his little group had on me was that contrary to their name, I lost all respect for Iwan Thomas and the like. 

I measured my own retreat to that of others present, whose moral code I also valued, who independent of myself were moved in a similar manner. The only thing that has shocked since amongst the Brit sprint men is how few of them have gone positive.

On learning that Jonathan Edwards had Andy Norman as his commercial manager I again lost something from life I doubt I will get back. Norman is the guy who allegedly had bent coppers on hand to provide clean urine samples at track meets. Read the broadsheet obits - truly scary.

It is now that I move across to Brit Cycling. Why would anyone running a program where "we ride clean" was a foundation stone, then employ Yates, Leinders or Sutton ? You can't occupy the space that says you have the best managed program on the planet and have characters like these stumble across centre stage, without senior management being aware of their background. Those two events are the classic Venn diagram - mutually exclusive. You can have one or the other, but you can't have both. Somewhere, somebody is being very devious and somewhere else, somebody is very conveniently pretending to be too dull to work out what is really going on.


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## oldroadman (21 Oct 2014)

So far as I know, Mr Yates and Dr Leinders were Sky staff, and never employed at BC, or am I wrong? Mr Sutton is a BC employee, but so far as I am aware has never failed a test (the LA argument could be applied, I know) whilst competing. He now appears to be an extremely successful coach. No "programme" BC athlete (under the care of the BC coaches) has produced a non-negative test either in or out of competition, and I would hope they are very carefully monitored.
What we have to recognise is that there is a big disconnect here, Sky support BC and a have a Pro team under completely separate management. Mistakes have been made at Sky, but they are hardly like the "mistakes" that other teams/riders have made, are they?
Rather than hark back to what MAY have happened in the past - and a distant one at that - looking forward is surely the positive view? Let's keep our glass half full , not half empty.
Right, off now to be blown about a bit on the local roads, think I'll stay in the valleys today, those hill tops look mighty breezy!


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## resal (22 Oct 2014)

oldroadman said:


> Mr Sutton is a BC employee, but so far as I am aware has never failed a test (the LA argument could be applied, I know) whilst competing. He now appears to be an extremely successful coach. No "programme" BC athlete (under the care of the BC coaches) has produced a non-negative test either in or out of competition,......



Sutton was Winn's Coach and managing the team when Winn tested positive in Guadelope. Winn came back to the UK and again tested positive in a warm up race to the National Champs. Both positives were treated as "one" as they were allowed to be. The contemporary excuse of choice favoured by many a doper at the time was "contaminated supplement". Sadly, many who used it at the time later tested positive again, however Winn was let off after such pressure was brought to bear by staff from BC on the WCU that caused one of the panel members hearing Winn's appeal to walk out and resign. Winn was let off and never tested positive again. The supplement he stated he was using was a slimming aid.

And now, recently, JTL talking about other high profile riders receiving letters but them being kept out of the news. It looks like the same story is still in play.


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## oldroadman (23 Oct 2014)

resal said:


> Sutton was Winn's Coach and managing the team when Winn tested positive in Guadelope. Winn came back to the UK and again tested positive in a warm up race to the National Champs. Both positives were treated as "one" as they were allowed to be. The contemporary excuse of choice favoured by many a doper at the time was "contaminated supplement". Sadly, many who used it at the time later tested positive again, however Winn was let off after such pressure was brought to bear by staff from BC on the WCU that caused one of the panel members hearing Winn's appeal to walk out and resign. Winn was let off and never tested positive again. The supplement he stated he was using was a slimming aid.
> 
> And now, recently, JTL talking about other high profile riders receiving letters but them being kept out of the news. It looks like the same story is still in play.


I can only acknowledge your apparent superior information. Being out of the country a lot it's easy to miss this sort of thing - was it ever in the public domain?
Possibly Mr Tiernan-Locke is referring to the possibility of riders missing an out of competition test (which can happen) and getting a letter pointing out their error - no-one wishes to get caught on the "three missed out of competition tests=non-negative" rule. If that is the case then it's simply good management by whichever team or programme is required to take action, in my view. I rather sceptical of what Mr T-L says, after his odd assertion about the consumption of vast quantities of alcohol was a factor in the recent unfortunate (for him) case.


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## resal (23 Oct 2014)

I don't think the JTL excuse was randomly chosen for ridiculousness. I believe it was chosen for effect, it deliberately mimicked Floyd's "couple of shots of whiskey after the stage" rubbish.

I believe it was a statement that he put out attempting to secure a future in the sport, post ban. "Don't treat me like Floyd was treated, otherwise I will spill the beans like Floyd." I think he probably is quite upset with the way he is being treated and thinks he should be treated better and is now blabbing a little to try and up the stakes. However, I don't believe he has a great deal on anyone. He will have information from Herety that will link back to Sutton, but as you say, Brailsford has cut ties between Sky and Sutton so there will be little leverage that JTL will be able to use there. Quite where the guy ends up is another soap opera, however whilst we know these snakes would sell their grandmother to the executioner, it was evidence from Floyd and Tyler that did for Lance. Lance liked Lance's evidence and gazzilions around the World much preferred the idea that Lance was correct and Tyler & Floyd were lying even though in their innermost beings they knew Lance was probably a lying scum-bag. So whilst JTL has no credibility, we would certainly be rash to dismiss all he says.


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## rich p (23 Oct 2014)

resal said:


> I believe it was a statement that he put out attempting to secure a future in the sport, post ban. "Don't treat me like Floyd was treated, otherwise I will spill the beans like Floyd." I think he probably is quite upset with the way he is being treated and thinks he should be treated better and is now blabbing a little to try and up the stakes


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## smutchin (23 Oct 2014)




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## rich p (23 Oct 2014)

resal said:


> I don't think the JTL excuse was randomly chosen for ridiculousness. I believe it was chosen for effect, it deliberately mimicked Floyd's "couple of shots of whiskey after the stage" rubbish.
> 
> I believe it was a statement that he put out attempting to secure a future in the sport, post ban. "Don't treat me like Floyd was treated, otherwise I will spill the beans like Floyd." I think he probably is quite upset with the way he is being treated and thinks he should be treated better and is now blabbing a little to try and up the stakes. However, I don't believe he has a great deal on anyone. He will have information from Herety that will link back to Sutton, but as you say, Brailsford has cut ties between Sky and Sutton so there will be little leverage that JTL will be able to use there. Quite where the guy ends up is another soap opera, however whilst we know these snakes would sell their grandmother to the executioner, it was evidence from Floyd and Tyler that did for Lance. Lance liked Lance's evidence and gazzilions around the World much preferred the idea that Lance was correct and Tyler & Floyd were lying even though in their innermost beings they knew Lance was probably a lying scum-bag. So whilst JTL has no credibility, we would certainly be rash to dismiss all he says.


I cba to answer your increasingly erratic posts but can I point out that 'doping in cycling' doesn't really satisfy the OP's thread title re 'Doping in other Sports'


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## User32269 (24 Oct 2014)

Apparently curling is the only sport cannabis is considered performance enhancing.


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## Ganymede (24 Oct 2014)

The turf is increasingly being found out - http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/23/philip-fenton-guilty-anabolic-steroids

Betting has always been so important to horse racing, it's not that surprising. Are we just seeing more of a crack-down?


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## rich p (24 Oct 2014)

Ganymede said:


> crack


I see what you did there!
It seems odd that it has taken 2 years for the case to get to a minor court in Ireland. Gradually other sports are very, very, slowly taking doping more seriously.
Helluva way to go though.


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## Ganymede (24 Oct 2014)

rich p said:


> I see what you did there!
> It seems odd that it has taken 2 years for the case to get to a minor court in Ireland. Gradually other sports are very, very, slowly taking doping more seriously.
> Helluva way to go though.


Heh. They eat grass too...

Yes there is a long way to go - and I suspect horse racing is even more dependent on a doping culture than cycling has been.


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## thom (24 Oct 2014)

Horse racing...
The winner is the speediest importer of afghan heroin ?


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## oldroadman (24 Oct 2014)

,


Ganymede said:


> Heh. They eat grass too...
> 
> Yes there is a long way to go - and I suspect horse racing is even more dependent on a doping culture than cycling has been.


It's interesting that people around horse racing tend to refer to it as "the industry", which may or may not say a lot about the approach taken to sporting matters, such as the use of unauthorised products by both the riders, and the support staff when dealing with the animals.


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## HF2300 (25 Oct 2014)

resal said:


> Sutton was Winn's Coach and managing the team when Winn tested positive in Guadelope. Winn came back to the UK and again tested positive in a warm up race to the National Champs. Both positives were treated as "one" as they were allowed to be. The contemporary excuse of choice favoured by many a doper at the time was "contaminated supplement". Sadly, many who used it at the time later tested positive again, however Winn was let off after such pressure was brought to bear by staff from BC on the WCU that caused one of the panel members hearing Winn's appeal to walk out and resign. Winn was let off and never tested positive again. The supplement he stated he was using was a slimming aid...



Well, that's one way of looking at it. Some of it even bears a distant resemblance to the truth.


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## oldroadman (25 Oct 2014)

It's difficult to see what is trying to be "proved" here. Plus it's all a long while back and how would anyone check? It all seems to be association accusations and assertions. Something more positive (no pun intended) would be good!


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## resal (26 Oct 2014)

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-80043751.html
HF2300 you won't be the only one that doesn't like what you read.

I am just pointing out that oldroadman's assertion that no British rider being coached by one of the BC staff members ever tested positive is wrong. 

The choice of the female specific slimming aid as the supplement concerned was weird but of course it met the criteria of not being properly labelled. 

Winn is a nephew of Doug Dailey MBE (services to cycling) and so the lay panel of the WCU were presented with swallow the account on Winn using a female slimming aid or ban their favourite son of the time, coached by star coach they had appointed - Shane and related to someone whose whole life was locked into the heartbeat of British Cycling. 
The facts are that one of the WCU board members didn't like what he saw and heard.


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## HF2300 (26 Oct 2014)

It's not a matter of liking or disliking what I read - if by that you mean that we readers don't like the genuine truth.

It is a matter of disliking what I read when said reading material is a very selective and slanted view of the truth designed to bolster your bias and assertions.

I suggest before leaping to conclusions which reinforce your ill informed, cynical and irrational viewpoint you research all the available information in the public domain and take an impartial view based on the evidence rather than basing your assumptions on second-hand copies of very sketchy articles from the Western Mail and Clinic gossip.

'Nuff said.


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## resal (27 Oct 2014)

HF2300 said:


> It's not a matter of liking or disliking what I read - if by that you mean that we readers don't like the genuine truth.
> 
> It is a matter of disliking what I read when said reading material is a very selective and slanted view of the truth designed to bolster your bias and assertions.
> 
> ...



You have no idea how amusing your post is to me.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Nov 2014)

Back to "other sports"...

36 Kenyans have failed dope tests in the past 2 years, I am imagining the majority were runners although the article does not state this.


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## Cycleops (1 Nov 2014)

Ganymede said:


> Heh. They eat grass too...
> 
> Yes there is a long way to go - and I suspect horse racing is even more dependent on a doping culture than cycling has been.


I wouldn't call horse racing a "sport".


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## rich p (1 Nov 2014)

resal said:


> You have no idea how amusing your post is to me.


That's possibly the first post of yours I can agree with.
I really do have no idea how amusing it is to you.


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## rich p (1 Nov 2014)

Marmion said:


> Back to "other sports"...
> 
> 36 Kenyans have failed dope tests in the past 2 years, I am imagining the majority were runners although the article does not state this.


This article mentions athletes and the probably prevalence of doping amongst Kenyan runners.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/01/sports/marathon-champion-rita-jeptoo-fails-doping-test.html?_r=0

_Rosa said “there’s a fear” doping was becoming commonplace in Kenya,

“I went with it because everyone told me I wasn’t the only one — and none of the others got caught for doping,” he said. “I know that a lot of medical substances are used, which are injected straight to the blood for the body to have more oxygen. And when you run, you run so smooth. You have more stamina.”_


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## HF2300 (1 Nov 2014)

rich p said:


> That's possibly the first post of yours I can agree with.
> I really do have no idea how amusing it is to you.



I suspect not half as amusing as Resal would like us to think though.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Nov 2014)

Another "other sport", this time it's tennis:
https://ewanmackenna.wordpress.com/2014/11/05/a-racket-with-no-net/


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## Crackle (5 Nov 2014)

Marmion said:


> Another "other sport", this time it's tennis:
> https://ewanmackenna.wordpress.com/2014/11/05/a-racket-with-no-net/


There was, not that long ago, a quite astonishing article about Djokovic benefiting from a new diet which removed the intolerances his body was objecting too and how it gave him new sustained energy and this was diagnosed by someone watching him on telly. I'll see if I can find it again, it was in the Guardian. I remember reading it more and more open mouthed and thinking he's on more than steamed broccoli and sweet potatoes. Murray has alluded more than once to drugs in tennis and the more you think about it the more ridiculous the naivety around tennis is. It's like going back 20 years in time.


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## 400bhp (5 Nov 2014)

Marmion said:


> Another "other sport", this time it's tennis:
> https://ewanmackenna.wordpress.com/2014/11/05/a-racket-with-no-net/





> As one prominent tennis writer says, “For some reason most tennis journalists don’t want to know about drugs in their game”.



Where I have I heard this before, almost word for word.


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## RedRider (5 Nov 2014)

i attended a conference on doping in sport around ten years ago. Amongst others, the conference was attended by a number of team doctors from professional football clubs. There was an unscientific but perhaps telling moment when they were asked if they felt PEDs was a problem in football and several hands were raised. When asked if they thought they were a problem at their own clubs then, no surprise of course, all the hands went down.


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## Hont (6 Nov 2014)

Crackle said:


> There was, not that long ago, a quite astonishing article about Djokovic benefiting from a new diet.


I think he went Gluten free. If he was genuinely gluten intolerant then cutting it out could explain improved athletic performance - especially as early in his career he always faded when the matches got long.

Having said that, there is some evidence that steroid use can result in food allergies, so....


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## Hont (6 Nov 2014)

Saw this on Twitter yesterday...


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## Flying_Monkey (6 Nov 2014)

Hont said:


> Saw this on Twitter yesterday...
> View attachment 61033



Yeah, well you only have to look at the changing physique and size of the average rugby player over the last 30 years to know that something is wrong. It's not all down to professionalism, improved training, diet and tighter shirts...


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## dragon72 (6 Nov 2014)

Hont said:


> Saw this on Twitter yesterday...
> View attachment 61033


No mention of Association Football, the sport (I presume) with the most professional athletes in the UK. Must be a clean sport then.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (6 Nov 2014)

Even baseball, I mean, baseball, come on.... http://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/mlb/alex-rodriguez-admitted-drug-use-to-dea-1.2824760


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## Dogtrousers (6 Nov 2014)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Even baseball, I mean, baseball, come on.... http://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/mlb/alex-rodriguez-admitted-drug-use-to-dea-1.2824760


Not sure what you mean by "even" baseball. It has a long and inglorious history of doping. Those home run sluggers need to get those unfeasible biceps somewhere.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (7 Nov 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> Not sure what you mean by "even" baseball. It has a long and inglorious history of doping. Those home run sluggers need to get those unfeasible biceps somewhere.


Well, most ball players are not exactly endurance athletes. Also today, http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/carter-ashton-leafs-forward-suspended-20-games-1.2826557 and in hockey that is less surprising, shame all round.


----------



## SWSteve (7 Nov 2014)

American football is rife with performance enhancing drugs. And when punishments are 2 games, why wouldn't you dope


----------



## Dogtrousers (7 Nov 2014)

Incidentally baseball came up with an interesting approach for how to treat the record books for dopers, by putting an asterisk next to them. Barry Bonds' home run record is often considered to have an asterisk. It dates back to some guy whose name I forget beating Babe Ruth's record - not by cheating, but by having a longer season - and getting an asterisk next to his stats. I'm not sure how official or how colloquial this all is. I don't know whether there are any real record books with real asterisks. 

I wonder if ASO considered this approach to you-know-who? (And a few others)


----------



## Hont (7 Nov 2014)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Well, most ball players are not exactly endurance athletes.


Neither are track sprinters, weighlifters, or field athletes.

The fact is that if drugs will provide a benefit, there will be someone taking some. And Dogtrousers is right, it's not a coincidence that the record for home runs in a season stood for 37 years, then was broken by two players in the same year. The numbers more recently - like cycling - are more credible but that doesn't mean someone's not taking something.


----------



## Hont (7 Nov 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> It dates back to some guy whose name I forget beating Babe Ruth's record - not by cheating, but by having a longer season - and getting an asterisk next to his stats. I'm not sure how official or how colloquial this all is. I don't know whether there are any real record books with real asterisks.


Good knowledge. It was Roger Maris, and he was asterisked for the reason you state. None of the official records asterisk Barry Bonds, though, despite fans holding up asterisk banners as he was setting the record.


----------



## Shadow (7 Nov 2014)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Well, most ball players are not exactly endurance athletes. Also today, http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/carter-ashton-leafs-forward-suspended-20-games-1.2826557 and in hockey that is less surprising, shame all round.


Not sure what you mean by 'less surprising'.
Regardless, this suspension, like many in other sports especially North America, is almost meaningless. A 20 game ban is less than a quarter of the number of games in the 'regular' season! (NHL season is 82 games, followed by playoffs). Ashton is a marginal player, so will not make much of a difference to the Leafs over the next 20 games.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (8 Nov 2014)

Shadow said:


> Not sure what you mean by 'less surprising'.
> Regardless, this suspension, like many in other sports especially North America, is almost meaningless. A 20 game ban is less than a quarter of the number of games in the 'regular' season! (NHL season is 82 games, followed by playoffs). Ashton is a marginal player, so will not make much of a difference to the Leafs over the next 20 games.


Pretty obvious really, hockey is far more demanding than any ball game, but Okay whatever. Anyway, the Leafs will likely not make the playoffs anyways, as per.


----------



## User169 (8 Nov 2014)

World No 1 badders players has just tested +ve for dexamethazone. 

Don't worry though, his national association is fully behind him.


----------



## smutchin (10 Nov 2014)

User said:


> surprised that it was found in his system a month after treatment for a thigh injury.....



Surprised it was found as opposed to surprised it was there, hmmm?


----------



## 400bhp (11 Nov 2014)

Germany set to make doping a crime.


----------



## Ganymede (11 Nov 2014)

400bhp said:


> Germany set to make doping a crime.


Ooer! Well, it _is_ fraud. Quite a step to take though.

I noticed that

"Foreign athletes caught doping in Germany would also risk prison."

I wonder if German athletes doping abroad would find themselves involuntary expatriates as they would get banged up on their return?

It will provoke interesting scrutiny on the scientific standard of the data.


----------



## Crackle (12 Nov 2014)

Not doping but Vanessa Mae got banned for four years for rigging her qualification races.


Pfffffffftttttttt…… .


And she still finished last.


----------



## Ganymede (12 Nov 2014)

Crackle said:


> Not doping but Vanessa Mae got banned for four years for rigging her qualification races.
> 
> 
> Pfffffffftttttttt…… .
> ...


She won't care, she just wanted the experience of competing at the Olympics and won't be trying again. I feel sorry for anyone she butted out though, selfish cow. Even if you come last, it's an achievement to get there so someone was cheated out of their place.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (12 Nov 2014)

Ganymede said:


> She won't care, she just wanted the experience of competing at the Olympics and won't be trying again. I feel sorry for anyone she butted out though, selfish cow. Even if you come last, it's an achievement to get there so someone was cheated out of their place.



Not really. Thailand would not have had any competitors in skiing otherwise, and the absolute numbers are not limited in that way. I'm not saying what she did was right, but she certainly isn't the first Olympian to have got there by money and connections (that was once practically the only way anyone got to the Olympics after all...), and she won't be the last.


----------



## Beebo (12 Nov 2014)

Eric the Eel anyone.
I could swim 100m quicker than him. He sets off like a rocket, then realises that 100m is quite a long way and almost sinks by the end!
The bit at the end where they bring up the National Record line is fantastic.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQbKCHsRIyk


----------



## Ganymede (12 Nov 2014)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Not really. Thailand would not have had any competitors in skiing otherwise, and the absolute numbers are not limited in that way. I'm not saying what she did was right, but she certainly isn't the first Olympian to have got there by money and connections (that was once practically the only way anyone got to the Olympics after all...), and she won't be the last.


I thought that initially but then gathered that the ski-offs involved other nationalities: http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/nov/11/vanessa-mae-violinist-banned-skiing-four-years.
VM wasn't the only cheater either and Italian and Slovenian coaches have been sanctioned too.


----------



## oldroadman (12 Nov 2014)

Where potential careers and ego are concerned, some will resort to whatever it takes. As is well known in most sports.


----------



## rich p (12 Nov 2014)

User said:


> I feel its a step to far, the athletes are punished/sanctioned when caught, that should be enough...sending someone to jail for cheating which at best is aganist the rules and morally wrong but a crime, No....


In Italy it is sporting fraud, IIRC.
The doper is essentially defrauding the clean rider out of potential earnings. If this acts as more of a deterrent then I don't see anything wrong with it. The minefield could be with the lack of clear cut doping these days. Blood passport infringements might not be covered.


----------



## rich p (12 Nov 2014)

I thought your objection was that they were being punished twice rather than that it was ineffective as a deterrent.
There's no way of knowing how effective it is though since we don't know if the riders who are clean, in Italy, were deterred!
The German law looks like it would be more severe too.


----------



## Hont (17 Nov 2014)

There were some raids on NFL teams this weekend, due to this...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-27492202

A very strong argument against those who say you should just legalise doping.


----------



## Ganymede (17 Nov 2014)

Hont said:


> There were some raids on NFL teams this weekend, due to this...
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-27492202
> 
> A very strong argument against those who say you should just legalise doping.


Yikes!


----------



## Dogtrousers (17 Nov 2014)

On a similar subject it's worth reading Shontayne Hape on the subject of concussion in Rugby Union here

To sum up: RU players take a pre-season cognition test, when they take a bang to the head they have to re-take this test to see if they are concussed. They deliberately "cheat" on the baseline test by scoring low, to avoid the chance of being stood down due to concussion. Add on to this the pressure - direct and indirect - to get out there and play, and an unwillingness by the clubs to stand down expensive (but concussed) players and you have a situation not unlike the coercion of players to take harmful substances.


----------



## Hont (18 Nov 2014)

Somebody needs to tell them about second impact syndrome...

http://www.brainandspinalcord.org/traumatic-brain-injury-types/second-impact-syndrome/index.html 

I'm sure there'll be a massive scandal when a player dies. Until then, they'll probably keep doing it.


----------



## smutchin (18 Nov 2014)

Hont said:


> I'm sure there'll be a massive scandal when a player dies. Until then, they'll probably keep doing it.



Deaths from head injuries in rugby are actually quite common (relatively). Certainly far more common than in cycling, and yet no one tells rugby players to wear a helmet. Yeah, some of them wear scrum caps, but they're to prevent damage to the ears and certainly aren't designed to absorb much force in an impact.

My son suffered concussion while playing in a tournament a couple of years ago. I was there as a spectator but I didn't realise at the time what had happened. He seemed to recover pretty quickly and although he sat out the rest of that game, he came back and played in the following game. No one pressurised him to play, but nor did the coaches stop suggest he shouldn't play. Me, being ignorant, assumed the coaches would be well informed about this kind of thing. Only the next day when he woke up feeling very groggy did I begin to realise that it was actually a pretty serious matter. Makes me feel a bit sick to think what might have happened.

Subsequently, I've been far more vigilant about any head injuries and on one occasion insisted he be removed from play after a knock, then banned him from playing for a few weeks afterwards, much to his disappointment. The players need protecting from themselves.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Nov 2014)

Rugby, specifically, French Rugby - a Paul Kimmage article:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rug...to-face-up-to-its-growing-pains-30766512.html


----------



## oldroadman (24 Nov 2014)

A look at the UKAD website makes interesting reading. Plenty of rugby sanctions, but no top level teams or players, so presumably the problem is all at the lower levels where they aspire to get bigger and better. Obviously this must be correct as no-one at the top levels has picked up a non-negative, so all the size and speed can be attributed to full time training, professional support, more gym time, and so on, must it not? That must be clear. Perhaps Mr Kimmage might take a look just to assure us all.


----------



## Hont (24 Nov 2014)

oldroadman said:


> Perhaps Mr Kimmage might take a look just to assure us all.


I remember reading an interview with David Walsh where he was very keen to have a look at Rugby. Now that the Lance gravy train will be drying up maybe we'll see a couple of books on Rugby from him.


----------



## Crackle (24 Nov 2014)

oldroadman said:


> A look at the UKAD website makes interesting reading. Plenty of rugby sanctions, but no top level teams or players, so presumably the problem is all at the lower levels where they aspire to get bigger and better. Obviously this must be correct as no-one at the top levels has picked up a* non-negative*, so all the size and speed can be attributed to full time training, professional support, more gym time, and so on, must it not? That must be clear. Perhaps Mr Kimmage might take a look just to assure us all.



Is this nuance different to positive?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (24 Nov 2014)

Crackle said:


> Is this nuance different to positive?


Tested positive for irony, I reckon.


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## Dogtrousers (24 Nov 2014)

Naive question (to which there is probably no simple answer):
With blood vector doping, like transfusions or EPO I'm guessing the body will eventually wash the stuff out so the dope needs to be maintained in the body to be effective. Is this also true of bulking-up? Could a player go on a doped training binge to illegally build bulk and then cut out the dope and maintain that bulk fully legally?


----------



## oldroadman (27 Nov 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> Naive question (to which there is probably no simple answer):
> With blood vector doping, like transfusions or EPO I'm guessing the body will eventually wash the stuff out so the dope needs to be maintained in the body to be effective. Is this also true of bulking-up? Could a player go on a doped training binge to illegally build bulk and then cut out the dope and maintain that bulk fully legally?


That's what the peddlers of illegally used substances would have you believe. The theory is that the stuff lets you train harder with bigger and bigger weights and build the muscle bulk. Then add in lots of (legal) protein supplements which you can buy in any "health" food store and even more muscle results, etc., etc. It appears that the use of illegals helps build bulk faster and probably considerably more than would be possible by simple training and proteins. Take a look (but not for too long, it ain't nice) at the "natural" bodybuilders and then the unregulated ones, see the difference.
The use of blood manipulation can have similar "training" effects. It's all too unpleasant to contemplate, really.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Nov 2014)

More from Kimmage on rugby
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rug...creates-bigger-need-for-answers-30785080.html


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## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Nov 2014)

Sam Chalmers (mentioned near the end of the above article) plays for the club I watch, Melrose, and his brother, Ben, is currently on a 2 year contract in France - which, given Kimmage's article last week, does not fill me with confidence that he'll get good advice and support; but hopefully he'll learn from his brother's mistakes.


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## psmiffy (4 Dec 2014)

*Doping: 99% of Russian athletes guilty, German TV alleges*


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## Ganymede (4 Dec 2014)

psmiffy said:


> *Doping: 99% of Russian athletes guilty, German TV alleges*


Chuffing heck.


----------



## rich p (4 Dec 2014)

Ganymede said:


> Chuffing heck.


Grim reading although I don't think it's confined to Russia by any means.


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## Flying_Monkey (4 Dec 2014)

I'm sure this will just be dismissed by Putin as more EU anti-Russian shoot-stirring. German-Russian relations are not exactly at an all-time high right now...


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## themosquitoking (4 Dec 2014)

99% does seem like a very high number. It's not even doing them any good, we beat them at the last olympics.


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## 400bhp (4 Dec 2014)

Does it surprise me. Probably no



400bhp said:


> I think athletics stinks to high heaven. I can't believe Gatlin is still running.
> 
> Risk vs reward. Low risk of being caught x short ban if caught. Reward is hardly affected by a ban. 2 year ban is a feckin joke.


----------



## thom (4 Dec 2014)

themosquitoking said:


> 99% does seem like a very high number. It's not even doing them any good, we beat them at the last olympics.


I know what you mean but actually nobody did better than Russia at the last Olympics, which were in Sochi...

(don't take the following personally, it reflects more on me rather than anything else)
<pedant>
99% is a high percentage but not a high number. It ain't really as big as 1, which, when you think about it, is clear it is a pretty special number but not really one of the _high_ numbers...
</pedant>


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## oldroadman (4 Dec 2014)

psmiffy said:


> *Doping: 99% of Russian athletes guilty, German TV alleges*


Was this reported in one of the German papers that would make the Sun look like an intellectual masterpiece, gathered from a TV channel with the same level of credibility? They so easily forget about their own East German history in that department.


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## Ganymede (4 Dec 2014)

thom said:


> I know what you mean but actually nobody did better than Russia at the last Olympics, which were in Sochi...
> 
> (don't take the following personally, it reflects more on me rather than anything else)
> <pedant>
> ...


But when the number 1 is not a singular unit but represents "all the Olympic athletes in the country", it is qualitatively a large number. Do admit.


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## thom (5 Dec 2014)

Ganymede said:


> But when the number 1 is not a singular unit but represents "all the Olympic athletes in the country", it is qualitatively a large number. Do admit.


grrrrrr


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## Ganymede (5 Dec 2014)

thom said:


> grrrrrr


Heh heh.


----------



## HF2300 (5 Dec 2014)

thom said:


> I know what you mean but actually nobody did better than Russia at the last Olympics, which were in Sochi...
> 
> (don't take the following personally, it reflects more on me rather than anything else)
> <pedant>
> ...



Surely whether the number is high or not depends on the level of doping?...


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## Dogtrousers (5 Dec 2014)

HF2300 said:


> Surely whether the number is high or not depends on the level of doping?...


Wow. That's like ... numberwang, man.


----------



## Ganymede (5 Dec 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> Wow. That's like ... numberwang, man.


*Nods in confused wonderment*


----------



## User169 (7 Dec 2014)

oldroadman said:


> Was this reported in one of the German papers that would make the Sun look like an intellectual masterpiece, gathered from a TV channel with the same level of credibility? They so easily forget about their own East German history in that department.



This makes no sense whatsoever!

For the record though, the ARD documentary was made by Hajo Seppelt, the journalist who flushed out Alberto Contador’s Tour de France positive test from the UCI after it had been kept quiet for weeks. He's also reported on doping amongst Kenyan athletes.


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## psmiffy (7 Dec 2014)

Delftse Post said:


> For the record though, the ARD documentary was made by Hajo Seppelt, the journalist who flushed out Alberto Contador’s Tour de France positive test from the UCI after it had been kept quiet for weeks. He's also reported on doping amongst Kenyan athletes.



I heard him on a radio 5Live interview comparing it to the regime that was in place in East Germany prior to the fall of the wall - talked of it being in same "tradition" - the same school of coaches and doctors


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Dec 2014)

More on doping in rugby (apologies about the source!)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...oss-admits-realise-s-issue-addressing-it.html


----------



## Beebo (7 Dec 2014)

I know Astana arent Russian, but they are as good as Russian, and we all know their questionable drug ethic.


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## Crackle (9 Dec 2014)

Who is it then.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...-accused-of-doping-by-German-documentary.html

2006-08. Better not name anyone, just in case


----------



## Hont (9 Dec 2014)

I wouldn't rule out anybody.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Dec 2014)

Crackle said:


> Who is it then.
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...-accused-of-doping-by-German-documentary.html
> 
> 2006-08. Better not name anyone, just in case



I'd hazard a guess that her name begins with Christine and ends in Ohurougu


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## rich p (9 Dec 2014)

Marmion said:


> I'd hazard a guess that her name begins with Christine and ends in Ohurougu


The witchfinder general has spoken!
I got beaten in the Hailsham 10 by Kelly Holmes about then....


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Dec 2014)

rich p said:


> The witchfinder general has spoken!
> I got beaten in the Hailsham 10 by Kelly Holmes about then....



She'd only have needed to have been on 6 pints a day to do that tho.

I am confident my witchfinder instincts will yet again be proved correct.


----------



## rich p (9 Dec 2014)

Marmion said:


> She'd only have needed to have been on 6 pints a day to do that tho.
> 
> I am confident my witchfinder instincts will yet again be proved correct.


I suspect you may be right too. I'd have wupped Ohuruogu over 10 miles whatever she was on!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (12 Dec 2014)

The IAAF is finally getting its just desserts: http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/dec/11/iaaf-lamine-diack-presidency-athletics


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## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Dec 2014)

Schoolboy rugby: supplements/doping
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rug...2036062?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


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## Ganymede (13 Dec 2014)

Marmion said:


> Schoolboy rugby: supplements/doping
> http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rug...2036062?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


Whaaaaa?!


----------



## AndyRM (14 Dec 2014)

Ganymede said:


> Whaaaaa?!



Sadly, not surprising. Compare an international XV today with one from 20 years ago. That's not genetics...


----------



## rich p (14 Dec 2014)

I'm currently watching the junior European cross-country race where the 3 Russian lads have just kicked away from the rest of the field.
Sad that the immediate thought is that you wonder if they're on some product.


----------



## psmiffy (14 Dec 2014)

2 brits running away from the field????


----------



## Bollo (14 Dec 2014)

AndyRM said:


> Sadly, not surprising. Compare an international XV today with one from 20 years ago. That's not genetics...


To a certain extent I think some of the changes reflect the (open) professionalisation of the game in the '90s and the consequent improvements to training and diet, but it wouldn't surprise me if the whole game was flithy with drugs from club rugby up.

I've just signed the forms to allow Bolletta (12) to be tested for a skating competition in January, which is a very odd feeling. Performance Enhancing Glitter?


----------



## Crackle (14 Dec 2014)

I was today reading a climbing article, mostly about big mountaineering such as K2 and other 8000'ers but drugs have been rife amongst mountaineers for many, many years. Of course it's not competition but the pressure to raise your profile and get sponsors is pretty high and in recent years two competition climbers have both been banned for drugs. Recreational ones rather than PED's but as I've two sons competing in national finals, it made me think.


----------



## User169 (15 Dec 2014)

Marmion said:


> Schoolboy rugby: supplements/doping
> http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/schools-quiet-on-use-of-supplements-in-underage-rugby-1.2036062?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter



The schoolboy son of a tory government minister got busted three/four years ago. I think he then moved into, er, body building.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 Dec 2014)

Jon Drummond, "former world record holder, a coach of U.S. Olympians and the recent Chairman of the USA Track & Field Athletes Advisory Council" given 8 year ban from coaching, training or advising:
http://www.dopinglist.com/?action=news&news=article&id=324


----------



## HF2300 (19 Dec 2014)

Delftse Post said:


> The schoolboy son of a tory government minister got busted three/four years ago. I think he then moved into, er, body building.



Sounds more like sticking with the drugs he loves rather than the sport he loves.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (2 Jan 2015)

While the overall message of the the song is anti-drug it seems an odd choice of music to associate with the promotion of sport, be unusual for an ad company but maybe they're just telling it like it is...


----------



## Ganymede (2 Jan 2015)

Crackle said:


> I was today reading a climbing article, mostly about big mountaineering such as K2 and other 8000'ers but drugs have been rife amongst mountaineers for many, many years. Of course it's not competition but the pressure to raise your profile and get sponsors is pretty high and in recent years two competition climbers have both been banned for drugs. Recreational ones rather than PED's but as I've two sons competing in national finals, it made me think.


Just catching up with this thread. Cocaine is actually an enhancer for mountain climbing. Chewing coca leaves has been known for centuries in Peru and similar places to help with altitude - I believe you can still get coca tea on that trans-Andean railway, but only on one side of the border - it's illegal on the other side! The leaves are obviously much less powerful than the pure powder. Dr Maturin took it up in the Aubrey/Maturin novels by Patrick O'Brian.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jan 2015)

Lord Coe, at the forefront of anti-doping: "There is no athlete on this planet who has been tested more than Usain Bolt."

Twatty nobber.


----------



## The Couch (9 Jan 2015)

Marmion said:


> Lord Coe, at the forefront of anti-doping: "There is no athlete on this planet who has been tested more than Usain Bolt."
> 
> Twatty nobber.


I guess he includes the tests by the Jamaican anti-doping agency (also known as "RM" = "Relax, Man...")


----------



## oldroadman (11 Jan 2015)

Marmion said:


> Lord Coe, at the forefront of anti-doping: "There is no athlete on this planet who has been tested more than Usain Bolt."
> 
> .



OK, if you say so, Lord Coe, future international federation president and "mate" of a Mr Blatter. Quite an article about Lord C in the latest Private Eye.


----------



## rich p (11 Jan 2015)

oldroadman said:


> OK, if you say so, Lord Coe, future international federation president and "mate" of a Mr Blatter. Quite an article about Lord C in the latest Private Eye.


I think Marmion's tongue was pretty firmly in his cheek!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jan 2015)

Athletics Kenya announces that it's getting badass on dopers and agents:
http://www.outsideonline.com/news-f...=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tweet


----------



## rich p (14 Jan 2015)

Marmion said:


> Athletics Kenya announces that it's getting badass on dopers and agents:
> http://www.outsideonline.com/news-from-the-field/Kenya-Cracks-Down-on-Athletes-Using-PEDs.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tweet


Welcome news even if the rhetoric is a bit overblown!

_Kiplagat __told New Vision__ that performance-enhancing drug use is on the same scale as the AIDS epidemic_


----------



## HF2300 (15 Jan 2015)

oldroadman said:


> OK, if you say so, Lord Coe, future international federation president and "mate" of a Mr Blatter. Quite an article about Lord C in the latest Private Eye.



This one? http://www.private-eye.co.uk/sections.php?section_link=news&issue=1383


----------



## oldroadman (15 Jan 2015)

Yep, that'll be it. An unfortunate episode in a glittering career, and all that. Apart from that, it will be instructive to see just how many people get found out in Kenya and Jamaica. If they let WADA do the work and publish the outcomes, then some credibility might be allowable. Always good to see a sport putting it's house in order


----------



## psmiffy (20 Jan 2015)

Something I find very strange - Over the years there seems to be many cases where sport supplements have been contaminated by anabolic steroids - how do they get into the manufacturing system - in this instance a blackcurrant drink - do the factories also package anabolic steroid versions of their products?


----------



## oldroadman (26 Jan 2015)

psmiffy said:


> Something I find very strange - Over the years there seems to be many cases where sport supplements have been contaminated by anabolic steroids - how do they get into the manufacturing system - in this instance a blackcurrant drink - do the factories also package anabolic steroid versions of their products?


Knew I should have insisted on Ribena as a training drink. Stardom may have eluded me due to lack of the proper juice!


----------



## rich p (31 Jan 2015)

These two Russian women have had their bans backdated but still get to keep some of their results.

http://www.athleticsweekly.com/featured/yuliya-zaripova-tatyana-chernova-handed-doping-bans-16192/

The results annulments are 2 years from the infraction but it's naïve to believe that they weren't doping after that.
WADA will review it but I'm not sure if they can amend that sort of anomaly.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Feb 2015)

Looking at the UK Anti-Doping webpage there does seem to be some emerging themes in terms of the sports which have people who are banned
http://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rule-violations/current-violations/search


----------



## smutchin (5 Feb 2015)

Wow, that's pretty damning.


----------



## Ganymede (5 Feb 2015)

All that rugby... pretty shocking. And lots of Welsh people. What's with that then?


----------



## thom (5 Feb 2015)

Marmion said:


> Looking at the UK Anti-Doping webpage there does seem to be some emerging themes in terms of the sports which have people who are banned
> http://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rule-violations/current-violations/search


The Tinklin family story is wierd : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-28641672


----------



## Dogtrousers (9 Feb 2015)

thom said:


> The Tinklin family story is wierd : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-28641672


Ha ha. Tinklin ... Urine sample....

Sorry


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (11 Feb 2015)

Interesting article from NZ, where a survey has found that over 70 per cent of elite college rugby players regularly use sports supplements, placing them at risk of accidental doping now and making them more likely to intentionally dope in the future.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/new...rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


----------



## shouldbeinbed (18 Mar 2015)

User said:


> 15 year ban
> .
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/31949668
> 
> <snip>



High of 77, now world no 267. I'd be asking my pharmacist for a refund.


----------



## oldroadman (19 Mar 2015)

Three word definition... What a plonker!


----------



## rich p (21 Mar 2015)

I could be putting 2 and 2 together and making 5...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/weightlifting/31999134


----------



## Beebo (25 Mar 2015)

Why would Nike give Gatlin a sponsorship deal?
It doesnt reflect very well.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/32051389


----------



## 400bhp (25 Mar 2015)

Beebo said:


> Why would Nike give Gatlin a sponsorship deal?
> It doesnt reflect very well.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/32051389



Because they don't give a sh1t.

Reet-I will now vow to limit my spending on Nike stuff, which is good because they don't really do cycling gear.


----------



## Ganymede (25 Mar 2015)

400bhp said:


> Because they don't give a sh1t.
> 
> Reet-I will now vow to limit my spending on Nike stuff, which is good because they don't really do cycling gear.


Yeah but I accidentally bought a pair of Nike glasses once - ordinary prescription glasses from the optician's. The logo on them was virtually invisible, but when I went to collect them they came in a big old Nike-brand case. I had to exchange the frames.


----------



## Hont (13 Apr 2015)

Another joke ban in American sports...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/baseball/32282281

80 games is about 3 months.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (13 Apr 2015)

"I can honestly say that I don't know how a banned substance ended up in my system."

Understandable. We all know that you can catch banned substances by brushing past someone in the street, toilet seats, take-away food and so on.


----------



## Shadow (14 Apr 2015)

What is a bit weird is that this is the 4th MLB player to receive an 80 game ban in the last 2 weeks and all tested positive for the same substance. And the season has only just started, so these must be from out of season testing. More to follow? I would not be surprised.


----------



## NormanD (14 Apr 2015)

Can't get any stricter than speedway at the moment, Darcy ward (pool Pirates) failed a Alcohol test on August 17th last year and was immediately suspended from racing any form of motorcycle world wide events, he had to wait until the beginning of March this year for his disciplinary hearing to take place, and what do they do, they slap him with a 10 month world wide ban on top of the already suspended waiting period.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 Apr 2015)

Shadow said:


> What is a bit weird is that this is the 4th MLB player to receive an 80 game ban in the last 2 weeks and all tested positive for the same substance. And the season has only just started, so these must be from out of season testing. More to follow? I would not be surprised.



The off-season is when all the strength-work in the gyms is taking place, so it's exactly when you'd expect the players to be taking these kinds of substances to gain the maximum training/building effect. Anyone caught taking these things in the playing season would be a real idiot...


----------



## rich p (14 Apr 2015)

Hont said:


> Another joke ban in American sports...
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/baseball/32282281
> 
> 80 games is about 3 months.


Do they play every day, bar Sunday!!!!
One game is enough to send me to sleep.


----------



## Shadow (14 Apr 2015)

Flying_Monkey said:


> The off-season is when all the strength-work in the gyms is taking place, so it's exactly when you'd expect the players to be taking these kinds of substances to gain the maximum training/building effect.



Indeed. I was attempting to show that maybe, just maybe, their testing regimes might be improving. But the bans remain lightweight.



Flying_Monkey said:


> Anyone caught taking these things in the playing season would be a real idiot...



Surely not many of those...


----------



## Shadow (14 Apr 2015)

rich p said:


> Do they play every day, bar Sunday!!!!
> One game is enough to send me to sleep.


Are you a cricket fan, too?!!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Apr 2015)

NormanD said:


> Can't get any stricter than speedway at the moment, Darcy ward (pool Pirates) failed a Alcohol test on August 17th last year and was immediately suspended from racing any form of motorcycle world wide events, he had to wait until the beginning of March this year for his disciplinary hearing to take place, and what do they do, they slap him with a 10 month world wide ban on top of the already suspended waiting period.



Is that not due to safety rather than performance enhancement tho?


----------



## NormanD (14 Apr 2015)

Marmion said:


> Is that not due to safety rather than performance enhancement tho?



Both really, as alcohol testing is part of the dope testing procedure. but the guidelines are very strictly adhered too and the punishments severe


----------



## oldroadman (14 Apr 2015)

NormanD said:


> Both really, as alcohol testing is part of the dope testing procedure. but the guidelines are very strictly adhered too and the punishments severe


As I understand it, all alcohol is strictly banned in any motor sport and quite rightly. Draconian and immediate bans for those transgressing, because they risk their own and other people's lives if not completely in control of all judgments. Well done motor sport, absolutely correct.


----------



## The Couch (15 Apr 2015)

NormanD said:


> Can't get any stricter than speedway at the moment, Darcy ward (pool Pirates) failed a Alcohol test on August 17th last year and was immediately suspended from racing any form of motorcycle world wide events, he had to wait until the beginning of March this year for his disciplinary hearing to take place, and what do they do, they slap him with a 10 month world wide ban on top of the already suspended waiting period.


Was this in competition or outside?
(In competition, the suspension makes sense)


----------



## Hont (17 Apr 2015)

rich p said:


> Do they play every day, bar Sunday!!!!


Pretty much. See below the April schedule for the Cubs (top of the division!  Probably not for long ).




And they say there are too many games of football.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 May 2015)

Justin Gatlin has just won the 100m in Doha at 9.74, not bad for someone who is 33. He must be following the Horner-plan.


----------



## User169 (16 May 2015)

Rugby and steroids...

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/may/15/craig-chalmers-son-sam-anabolic-steroids-rugby-union


----------



## User169 (17 May 2015)

Another footballer...

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/32770268


----------



## Beebo (3 Jun 2015)

Mo Farah will start to come under suspicion after his coach gets fingered.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32877702


----------



## rich p (3 Jun 2015)

I'm pretty sure ( but not certain) that when I was a runner many moons ago, there was lot of suspicion about Salazar when he was still winning marathons.


----------



## User169 (3 Jun 2015)

Interesting!!

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...documentary-alleged-drug-use-alberto-salazar-


----------



## HF2300 (3 Jun 2015)

The most interesting part of that with regards to cycling is the comment about how easy it is to manipulate the biological passport.


----------



## Crackle (3 Jun 2015)

Alan Wells! But he was on Blue Peter...


----------



## themosquitoking (3 Jun 2015)

Alberto Salazar sounds like a villain from a Pixar movie.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (3 Jun 2015)

Crackle said:


> Alan Wells! But he was on Blue Peter...



He also worked with Angus Fraser, the nutjob dope peddler soigneur/masseur


----------



## HF2300 (3 Jun 2015)

The programme referred to in the Guardian article is on BBC1, 9pm tonight (about 10 minutes!)

Guess it'll be on iPlayer afterwards.


----------



## HF2300 (3 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> He also worked with Angus Fraser, the nutjob dope peddler soigneur/masseur



Think it'll be the Blue Peter connection that's significant, though. We all know what happened to Richard Bacon...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (3 Jun 2015)

The BBC programme is well worth watching - just over halfway through and the reporter has already passed the bio passport test despite using EPO...and Wells will do, err, well to come out of this with any credibility. On to Farrah now...


----------



## 400bhp (3 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> The BBC programme is well worth watching - just over halfway through and the reporter has already passed the bio passport test despite using EPO...and Wells will do, err, well to come out of this with any credibility. On to Farrah now...



This is fascinating


----------



## MrGrumpy (3 Jun 2015)

Gutted about this a childhood hero


----------



## fossyant (3 Jun 2015)

400bhp said:


> This is fascinating



It bloody well is....

I will fill you all in about Testosterone and Thyroid mess in a bit... Watching the telly


----------



## fossyant (3 Jun 2015)

Cytomel is not a current thyroid drug.....


----------



## 400bhp (3 Jun 2015)

Rupp is utterly buggered.

Salazar is skating on very thin ice.


----------



## fossyant (3 Jun 2015)

A 16 year old on testosterone, OMG that is so dangerous and will mess him up in later life.


----------



## fossyant (3 Jun 2015)

I hope Mo is clean.....


----------



## 400bhp (3 Jun 2015)

Suspect Salazar used Rupp to make a name for himself in the coaching world. Disgusting individual.


----------



## fossyant (3 Jun 2015)

A programme with a bit a balls for once...


----------



## fossyant (3 Jun 2015)

Ah BBC news straight after......


----------



## fossyant (3 Jun 2015)

Ferrari again though. The sh1t is hitting the fan.

Good.


----------



## Crackle (3 Jun 2015)

All the denial statements sound oddly familiar don't they, like someone wrote the template for them....


----------



## 400bhp (3 Jun 2015)

Crackle said:


> All the denial statements sound oddly familiar don't they, like someone wrote the template for them....



Just thought exactly that about Wells.


----------



## fossyant (3 Jun 2015)

Thyroid drugs, in a normal person will increase metabolism. Muhammad Ali took it, called T3 a natural pig extract. There is T3 and T4. My wife takes a mix of both as she has researched her condition hypothyroid and the natural product combined with the synthetic works for her. It's not for people without an under active thyroid.

Testosterone should never be used with anybody with a normal blood level - it should by 15 to 25 for a normal bloke in 30 to 50 age range. The normal medical range is 8 to 30, but that includes old fellas of 90. Normal for most of us is about 20.

If you use testosterone, it will shut down your normal production. You can't just give yourself a little boost as the pituitary gland will produce less LH hormone, telling your baubles to make less. You have to seriously dose up, shutting down the natural systems, then closely monitor blood levels so its in range, so you can push it up to high 20s without too many issues, but normal is around 20.

In a fella that's not had kids, it will make you infertile.

Issues with overdosing on Testosterone is raised heamocrit, and if you start going over 54 (the pro level of 50 is top of normal so its a bit dodgy) you have a serious risk of stroke over heart attack.

I know a fair amount on this as I am on testosterone replacement from two surgeries on my bits. My testosterone was 9 on first test then fell to 5. My heamocrit was down to 40 right at the bottom of normal. I had a right fight to get it prescribed as a level of 5 leaves you like a zombie. Even now I am not up to normal levels. I have an injection every three weeks. The folk that abuse it take three each week.

I have my bloods checked very often, think it's been more than once a month since my problems started as there are issues with prostrate and heamocrit. My heamocrit was at 42 last time, so had gone up 2 but was still under mid level.

There is some seriously dangerous sh1t going on in doping.


----------



## Captain Slackbladder (3 Jun 2015)

It's getting all a bit silly now where athletics is concerned, I'd be more inclined to think that more are actually doping than not....when it comes to elite level anyway.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (4 Jun 2015)

fossyant said:


> A 16 year old on testosterone, OMG that is so dangerous and will mess him up in later life.



Wasn't this the same supicion with the 'training methods' used on Ronaldo (the Brazilian one) when he arrived in Europe as a teenager?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Jun 2015)

I wonder if Nike has ever heard of "due diligence"? They do seem to have very close associations with very dodgy athletes/coaches/organisations - and then throw their hands in the air and say "not us guv, never knew anything..." when the rest of the world seems to have known.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Jun 2015)

Lots of discussion in the gym changing-room tonight, what struck me most was the level of ignorance around doping; maybe because I follow cycling I have a heightened awareness of doping but I was seriously amazed at how little people seemed to know about the ease of access and how easy it is to not get caught - I put them right of course


----------



## User169 (4 Jun 2015)

Crackle said:


> All the denial statements sound oddly familiar don't they, like someone wrote the template for them....



Salazar was Armstrong's pacemaker when he was into marathon running.


----------



## HF2300 (4 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> Lots of discussion in the gym changing-room tonight ... I was seriously amazed at how little people seemed to know about the ease of access and how easy it is to not get caught - I put them right of course



You'll be giving them ideas


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Jun 2015)

HF2300 said:


> You'll be giving them ideas



Someone did comment "7% improvement? I'd get that fae stopping eating pies for a week..."


----------



## Crackle (4 Jun 2015)

Delftse Post said:


> Salazar was Armstrong's pacemaker when he was into marathon running.


Was he! What a tangled web.


----------



## themosquitoking (4 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> Lots of discussion in the gym changing-room tonight, what struck me most was the level of ignorance around doping; maybe because I follow cycling I have a heightened awareness of doping but I was seriously amazed at how little people seemed to know about the ease of access and how easy it is to not get caught - I put them right of course


In my gym changing room all they talk about is football, nobbers.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Jun 2015)

With specific reference to Athletics, those head-burying twats at BBC Sports should start taking notice of the evidence re doping and stop covering it up - Colin Jackson, Jonathan Davies and Denise Lewis are apologists, smiling inanely and deflecting any suggestion of illegality and performance enhancement. A shower of shite.


----------



## HF2300 (4 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> ... Jonathan Davies ....



Edwards?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Jun 2015)

HF2300 said:


> Edwards?



That's the fecker 

Although the rugby bloke is a nobber too


----------



## Flying_Monkey (5 Jun 2015)

I'm not sure if there's more in this report - from the organisation that _The Guardian_ partnered with for this story - but there seems to be:

https://www.propublica.org/article/...-coach-alberto-salazar-of-breaking-drug-rules


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Jun 2015)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I'm not sure if there's more in this report - from the organisation that _The Guardian_ partnered with for this story - but there seems to be:
> 
> https://www.propublica.org/article/...-coach-alberto-salazar-of-breaking-drug-rules



Quite a bit additional information in there.

I'm going to go and search the internet and see if asthma and thyroid conditions are contagious, if they are I am going to start hanging out with top class athletes cos I'm sure it'll help me become a bit fitter and faster.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Jun 2015)

It's very interesting what you can find by just clicking on "similar stories" links on websites. USADAs Anemia Patient Group website investigation falls into my definition of "interesting"
http://www.usada.org/brook-radcliffe-accepts-doping-sanction/


----------



## rich p (5 Jun 2015)

I've read a few of the related stories too. It's slightly depressing to get the feeling that the post-Armstrong sense of hope may turn out to be as ephemeral as the post-Festina one. Or am I being too downbeat?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Jun 2015)

rich p said:


> I've read a few of the related stories too. It's slightly depressing to get the feeling that the post-Armstrong sense of hope may turn out to be as ephemeral as the post-Festina one. Or am I being too downbeat?



Nope, reality returns.
I'm contemplating not giving a toss again and letting them get on with it.


----------



## Crackle (5 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> Nope, reality returns.
> I'm contemplating not giving a toss again and letting them get on with it.


Yeah, you could switch to athletics or rugby or tennis or.…… .oh wait.……


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Jun 2015)

Crackle said:


> Yeah, you could switch to athletics or rugby or tennis or.…… .oh wait.……



Not interest in athletics or tennis, and getting that way about rugby as well (certainly at pro level)


----------



## Captain Slackbladder (5 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> With specific reference to Athletics, those head-burying twats at BBC Sports should start taking notice of the evidence re doping and stop covering it up - Colin Jackson, Jonathan Davies and Denise Lewis are apologists, smiling inanely and deflecting any suggestion of illegality and performance enhancement. A shower of shite.


 
Steve Cram has been as outspoken as any over the subject. As for others, they're all on the BBC gravy train so they've got cushy jobs to protect. On the other side of the coin I'm not sure what they can come out and say without tying themselves and possibly the BBC in legal wranglings...


----------



## rich p (5 Jun 2015)

Crammy is pretty unequivocal. Robbie Hatch says as much as he can within legal limits too IMO. I tweeted him the other day about Visconti and he later mentioned his chequered past, although I can't claim that it was because of me! He mentioned Zakarin's doping past too on more than one occasion.
For obvious reasons, it's harder to speculate that Landa or Tiralongo are probably juiced given how they're riding on any given day.


----------



## Captain Slackbladder (5 Jun 2015)

Totally clean folks...


----------



## Crackle (5 Jun 2015)

Gatlin is a joke and the worst part about his comeback is Nike's sponsorship which is a disgrace, a total and utter disgrace.


----------



## rich p (5 Jun 2015)

Crackle said:


> Gatlin is a joke and the worst part about his comeback is Nike's sponsorship which is a disgrace, a total and utter disgrace.


Nike are bunch of opportunistic shítes.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (5 Jun 2015)

rich p said:


> Nike are bunch of opportunistic shítes.



The same company implicated in the FIFA bribery scandals and of course behind Salazar's Oregon Project.


----------



## rich p (5 Jun 2015)

Flying_Monkey said:


> The same company implicated in the FIFA bribery scandals and of course behind Salazar's Oregon Project.


Yep, not forgetting Armstrong, either. They had to be dragged into ending their association with him

_Both companies __initially stood by Armstrong__, even after he lost his titles. This summer, Nike said that the athlete stated his innocence and had been unwavering on his position

http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/17/news/companies/nike-lance-armstrong/_


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Jun 2015)

Captain Slackbladder said:


> Steve Cram has been as outspoken as any over the subject. As for others, they're all on the BBC gravy train so they've got cushy jobs to protect. On the other side of the coin I'm not sure what they can come out and say without tying themselves and possibly the BBC in legal wranglings...



The others choose not to be outspoken - smile, deny, take the money. Disgraceful. As bad as the dopers.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jun 2015)

Fastest ever marathon times: 26/30 in past 5 years, not all of them by the race winners! Smells like EPO spirit...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jun 2015)

The time has come to stop relying on science to provide us with "proof", science has failed sport both in terms of providing the means to cheat and not having the ability to detect the means when it is applied. An ethics approach is required, let's stop pissing about. It's far too comfortable for us all to think "well, there is no real proof, so let's give them the benefit of the doubt" when what we really should be doing is saying "get these feckers out of sport now". Many (most?) professions have an ethics-based approach to sanctions, and there is no reason the same cannot be applied to sport.


----------



## HF2300 (6 Jun 2015)

This is one of the reasons I don't like seeing unrepentant dopers in cycling (or any sport, for that matter). If you have people in the sport who don't see the issue and don't see a problem with their behaviour, you're never going to create a climate or ethos where doping is seen as unacceptable; particularly when those unrepentant dopers are in positions of authority as directeurs sportif, coaches or team managers.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (6 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> The time has come to stop relying on science to provide us with "proof", science has failed sport both in terms of providing the means to cheat and not having the ability to detect the means when it is applied. An ethics approach is required, let's stop pissing about. It's far too comfortable for us all to think "well, there is no real proof, so let's give them the benefit of the doubt" when what we really should be doing is saying "get these feckers out of sport now". Many (most?) professions have an ethics-based approach to sanctions, and there is no reason the same cannot be applied to sport.


Would that that were true. It's probably a pretty safe assumption that where there's money there's lawyers, and where there are lawyers, issues will hang upon ''proof''. Ethics gets relegated to the stuff of character witnesses.


----------



## Crackle (6 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> The time has come to stop relying on science to provide us with "proof", science has failed sport both in terms of providing the means to cheat and not having the ability to detect the means when it is applied. An ethics approach is required, let's stop pissing about. It's far too comfortable for us all to think "well, there is no real proof, so let's give them the benefit of the doubt" when what we really should be doing is saying "get these feckers out of sport now". Many (most?) professions have an ethics-based approach to sanctions, and there is no reason the same cannot be applied to sport.


You still have to catch and discourage them don't you?

Making doping illegal and legislation to claw back money earned from doped performances would go some way to acting as a disincentive, though there are quite possibly pitfalls to that approach and they do it in other countries and people still dope. More pressure on sponsors but how is up for discussion, making them liable in some way or encouraging them to sue to get their monies back from convicted dopers would be a big disincentive too. It's about changing the climate, as you say.


----------



## 400bhp (6 Jun 2015)

Captain Slackbladder said:


> Totally clean folks...




He really is taking the pish out of athletics. It shows how poor the sport is at cleaning itself up. Be that the prize money on offer far outweighing the sanctions, the inability to remove a drug taker (clearly his previous doping or his current doping program is making him run so fast) or the authorities taking a blind eye.

Bolt had a massive opportunity to stand up to dopers when he was asked about Gatlin and he gave a laissez faire response 

Athletics is my second favourite sport to watch, but I'm being turned off by it.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jun 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Would that that were true. It's probably a pretty safe assumption that where there's money there's lawyers, and where there are lawyers, issues will hang upon ''proof''. Ethics gets relegated to the stuff of character witnesses.



All one needs to do is change the basis of "proof" from a science-based to an ethics-based approach.
Within my profession there is a clear code of ethics and if anyone deviates from this then they are out on their arse; everyone knows it and sign up to comply; it does require those who are responsible for the integrity of the profession (no sniggering at the back) to ensure compliance and to take action where required if "proof" is available. Lawyers are seldom involved; they seem to prosper under the science-based approach to sanctions, but I would wager they'd be less prosperous in an ethics-based environment.


----------



## Crackle (6 Jun 2015)

On the subject of Nike, there are rumours concerning the Scandal surrounding FIFA, that they have been involved in some shady dealings, nothing confirmed yet.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/06d28cd0-055b-11e5-bb7d-00144feabdc0.html

And apologies this is a Daily Mail link but if you want some indication of Nike's moral bankruptcy, this recent article makes a good read, though being the Mail it's bound to have made some errors, nevertheless
.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-scandals-run-one-troubling-thread-NIKE.html


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jun 2015)

Crackle said:


> On the subject of Nike, there are rumours concerning the Scandal surrounding FIFA, that they have been involved in some shady dealings, nothing confirmed yet.
> 
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/06d28cd0-055b-11e5-bb7d-00144feabdc0.html


Rumours do me fine 

I cannae access the ft article as it seems to want me to subscribe; and that's not going to ever happen.


----------



## Crackle (6 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> Rumours do me fine
> 
> I cannae access the ft article as it seems to want me to subscribe; and that's not going to ever happen.


_*Fifa corruption scandal threatens to entangle Nike - FT.com*


The growing scandal over corruption at Fifa threatens to entangle Nike, the US sportswear company that is a sponsor of the Brazilian national football squad, and other multinational sponsors of the game in Latin America.

US prosecutors alleged in an indictment that an intermediary, a company controlled by Brazilian businessman José Hawilla, helped secure a landmark $160m, 10-year sponsorship deal in 1996 between an unnamed sportswear company and the country’s football federation, or CBF, by paying bribes.

Prosecutors did not name Nike in their indictment, which was filed to a US district court, referring to it as “sportswear company A” or “E” in two separate documents. They have not accused it of any crime.

But the deal by the unnamed company described in the two indictments appears identical to the one signed by Nike and CBF in 1996.

Nike said that it “believes in ethical and fair play in both business and sport and strongly opposes any form of manipulation or bribery. We have been co-operating, and will continue to co-operate, with the authorities.”

In a later statement the company said: “The charging documents unsealed yesterday in Brooklyn do not allege that Nike engaged in criminal conduct. There is no allegation in the charging documents that any Nike employee was aware of or knowingly participated in any bribery or kickback scheme.” 

The website of Traffic, Mr Hawilla’s company, mentions a deal in 1996 with Nike as one of its landmark transactions. Nike’s sponsorship of the Brazilian team was also at the centre of a congressional inquiry into football in Brazil in 2001.

A number of Fifa’s biggest sponsors, including Visa and Coca-Cola, were quick to speak out about the allegations of corruption and fraud that have engulfed world football’s governing body and some of its affiliates.

The allegations swirling around the Nike contract will be closely watched by multinationals interested in participating in Brazil and Latin America’s increasingly lucrative sports advertising market.

Successive CBF chairmen have endured a number of scandals but until now had emerged unscathed.

In their indictment, US prosecutors said the unnamed sportswear company approached the CBF about a sponsorship deal around 1994.

The CBF and Traffic, which was then its marketing agent, began negotiations with the company.

Under the deal eventually signed with Nike in 1996, the CBF agreed to remit a percentage of the payments it received from the sportswear company to Mr Hawilla’s Traffic.

Mr Hawilla, who has pleaded guilty in the case as part of a plea-bargain agreement, then agreed to pay half of everything he made from the deal as kickbacks to a senior member of the CBF board, identified in the indictment as “co-conspirator 11”.

Prosecutors said that “co-conspirator 11” was also at various times a high-ranking official of Fifa and Conmebol, the South American football confederation.

The prosecutors said additional financial terms between Traffic and the unnamed sportswear company were not reflected in the CBF agreement.

Under these additional terms, the unnamed company agreed to pay a Traffic affiliate with a Swiss bank account an additional $40m in “base compensation” on top of the $160m it paid the CBF.

Three days later, the unnamed company and Traffic signed a one-page contract saying that the CBF had authorised Traffic to invoice the unnamed company directly “for marketing fees earned upon successful negotiation and performance of the . . . [agreement]”, it is alleged.

The 10-year sponsorship was terminated in early 2002. Nike is the current kit sponsor of the Brazilian national team.

The prosecutors also alleged that a sports marketing company involved in the negotiation of sponsorship deals for the Copa Libertadores, the South American championship run by Conmebol, paid bribes to secure the exclusive rights.

Toyota became the tournament’s first title sponsor in 1998, followed by Santander in 2008 and Bridgestone Corporation starting in 2013.

The prosecutors alleged that a sports marketing company, identified only as “sports marketing company A” and based in New Jersey, paid a series of bribes mainly to Nicolás Leoz, who was the president of Conmebol between 1986 and 2013, and a member of Fifa’s executive committee.

The payments, which started in the early 2000s, were in exchange for his support for the sports marketing company securing the exclusive rights to the tournament.

Santander declined to comment. Toyota and Bridgestone were not immediately available for comment.

Dilma Rousseff, Brazil’s president, said this week she welcomed the Fifa investigation, saying the country’s normally aggressive public prosecutors had been unable to tackle alleged corruption in football in the country because it was run by private organisations.

“I say that if it needs to be investigated, investigate it — all the World Cups, everything,” she told reporters on a trip to Mexico.

Additional reporting by Robert Wright in New York_​


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jun 2015)

Crackle said:


> _Dilma Rousseff, Brazil’s president, said this week she welcomed the Fifa investigation, saying the country’s normally aggressive public prosecutors had been unable to tackle alleged corruption in football in the country because it was run by private organisations._​


​Eh?! Do they have a "no prosecutions for private organisations" rule? So the prosecutors only tackle state corruption? Prosecuting the system that pays them.

Sounds a decent job that one.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (6 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> All one needs to do is change the basis of "proof" from a science-based to an ethics-based approach.
> Within my profession there is a clear code of ethics and if anyone deviates from this then they are out on their arse; everyone knows it and sign up to comply; it does require those who are responsible for the integrity of the profession (no sniggering at the back) to ensure compliance and to take action where required if "proof" is available. Lawyers are seldom involved; they seem to prosper under the science-based approach to sanctions, but I would wager they'd be less prosperous in an ethics-based environment.


Genuinely interested: how would an ethics based approach apply in Kreuziger's case, for example?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jun 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Genuinely interested: how would an ethics based approach apply in Kreuziger's case, for example?



I'm only proposing a different approach, not a detailed analysis of every bloody case to prove whether it would work or not


----------



## rich p (6 Jun 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Genuinely interested: how would an ethics based approach apply in Kreuziger's case, for example?


I've no idea what he's on about either DM


----------



## thom (6 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> The time has come to stop relying on science to provide us with "proof", science has failed sport both in terms of providing the means to cheat and not having the ability to detect the means when it is applied. An ethics approach is required, let's stop pissing about. It's far too comfortable for us all to think "well, there is no real proof, so let's give them the benefit of the doubt" when what we really should be doing is saying "get these feckers out of sport now". Many (most?) professions have an ethics-based approach to sanctions, and there is no reason the same cannot be applied to sport.



Utter bollocks.

Best case I can imagine is this was the whacky baccy talking.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jun 2015)

thom said:


> Utter bollocks.


you are entitled to be wrong


----------



## thom (6 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> you are entitled to be wrong


You've chosen to be wrong.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jun 2015)

thom said:


> You've chosen to be wrong.



I have chosen to express an opinion, as did you when you were wrong earlier


----------



## themosquitoking (6 Jun 2015)

thom said:


> Best case I can imagine is this was the *whacky baccy* talking.


I've just had a call from the 1980's, they'd like their words back please.


----------



## thom (6 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> I have chosen to express an opinion, as did you when you were wrong earlier


Just because you're entitled to an opinion doesn't mean other people agree with it.
On this I think we can agree.


----------



## thom (6 Jun 2015)

themosquitoking said:


> I've just had a call from the 1980's, they'd like their words back please.


1980's ain't so bad considering Witch hunting was a Medieval idea.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Jun 2015)

Mo Farah sounding less and less convincing with each passing day; he's of the Floyd Landis school of press conferences.

It would be very interesting to see his (apparently long) record of TUEs.


----------



## smutchin (7 Jun 2015)

Bizarrely, he now seems to be claiming he "has nothing to do with" the man who's been coaching him the past few years.

He's not doing a great job of looking innocent.


----------



## Crackle (7 Jun 2015)

He surely can't be this naive.


----------



## resal (7 Jun 2015)

Crackle said:


> He surely can't be this naive.



He isn't. He just thought the protection would be enough, all his mates there doing the commentaries and the BBC - that group - they did the same then as he is doing now. He never thought the BBC would go through with it.

Mark Daly the journalist who ran the story sent written confirmation about the allegations to Mo and Albert Salazar over a month ago. And now Mo wants people to believe he must rush back to the States to ask Alberto mano- to mano - some serious questions. 

For goodness sake. All these people who want to believe in all these fairy stories.


----------



## 400bhp (7 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> Mo Farah sounding less and less convincing with each passing day; he's of the Floyd Landis school of press conferences.
> 
> It would be very interesting to see his (apparently long) record of TUEs.



Don't agree with you here. He's been sucked in to the media scrum. Rightly or wrongly he believed Salazar, as did [do] UK Athletics. I honestly don't think Farah is a cheat, and as I said earlier, I believe Salazar has used Rupp to raise his profile.

If UK Athletics had essentially vetted Salazar, why would Farah think twice that he was up to no good?


----------



## Crackle (7 Jun 2015)

Here is an article showing Farah running with a confirmed drugs cheat. An explanation is provided in the article but it takes on a different look in the current light.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...ing-with-Qatari-drug-cheat-Hamza-Driouch.html


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## 400bhp (7 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> An ethics approach is required, .



How would you perceive this to work? Wouldn't you need rule based underlying it?

You can't ban people on supposition.

I have a principles based guidelines in my profession. It still has underlying rules, because there's legislation in some aspects of my professional work, however it gives the standards committee more scope to fine/ban/exclude people for "bringing the profession into disrepute".

Do you mean principles based rather than ethics base?

I had an interesting conversation a couple of hours ago - apparently you now have "opponents" rubbing creams (steroids etc) on their hands then shaking hands with athletes, in an effort to get them to test positive.

I've said this many times, until the outcomes (likelihood and severity) of being caught doping outweighs the rewards, it will continue to be prevalent.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Jun 2015)

400bhp said:


> I have a principles based guidelines in my profession. It still has underlying rules.


Yes, "ethics" or "principles", something that's not wholly reliant on science. And "rules" would be required. As I posted earlier, in my profession we sign up to abide by the code of ethics - the code is the rules.

Otherwise they'd be as well just appointing me and letting me do my witch-finder thing. Which I'd be happy enough to do, of course


----------



## User169 (8 Jun 2015)

Support for Mo from an unexpected quarter..

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-sides-mo-farah-doping-claims-alberto-salazar


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## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jun 2015)

Delftse Post said:


> Support for Mo from an unexpected quarter..
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-sides-mo-farah-doping-claims-alberto-salazar



I bet he's delighted at that


----------



## rich p (9 Jun 2015)

Delftse Post said:


> Support for Mo from an unexpected quarter..
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-sides-mo-farah-doping-claims-alberto-salazar


Has Lance voiced his support yet?


----------



## User169 (9 Jun 2015)

rich p said:


> Has Lance voiced his support yet?



He was in the alps last week with Geoff Thomas. Not sure why Thomas is getting involved with Armstrong.


----------



## rich p (9 Jun 2015)

Delftse Post said:


> He was in the alps last week with Geoff Thomas. Not sure why Thomas is getting involved with Armstrong.


Didn't he, inadvisably, want LA to do his cancer charlty 'tdf' with him?


----------



## Hont (9 Jun 2015)

rich p said:


> Didn't he, inadvisably, want LA to do his cancer charlty 'tdf' with him?


Yep. They have a relationship pre-dating the truth being dragged out Oprah confession, due to the cancer connection.


----------



## dragon72 (11 Jun 2015)

This is not very surprising but pretty depressing reading nevertheless:
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news...tive-chemists-will-always-090127378--spt.html


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## dragon72 (11 Jun 2015)

If Mo Farah's running on nothing more than Gatorade, I'll eat my sombrero.


----------



## themosquitoking (11 Jun 2015)

dragon72 said:


> If Mo Farah's running on nothing more than Gatorade, I'll eat my sombrero.


Quorn too don't forget.


----------



## mr messy (11 Jun 2015)

themosquitoking said:


> Quorn too don't forget.


Quorn not a ped...where's the fun gus in that


----------



## Captain Slackbladder (12 Jun 2015)

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/athletics/33096367

Will be interesting the line Mo and Alberto spin, once they've concocted their defence


----------



## 400bhp (13 Jun 2015)

Captain Slackbladder said:


> http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/athletics/33096367
> 
> Will be interesting the line Mo and Alberto spin, once they've concocted their defence



I have to applaud the BBC for sticking with this and gnawing away. Farah should be thanking them (if he is clean).


----------



## Captain Slackbladder (18 Jun 2015)

Move along, nothing to see here.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/athletics/33178292


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## Crackle (18 Jun 2015)

Captain Slackbladder said:


> Move along, nothing to see here.
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/athletics/33178292


I was just about to post that. Things are looking darker with concern to Farah. Here is a quote from Ross Tucker on The Science Of Sport, which, as Resal earlier pointed out and which struck me as odd too, he discusses Farah's bizarre press conference of surprised, angry indignation.

_"Oh, and finally, it does strike me as strange that Farah kept saying he would sit down and talk to Salazar, as though they had been ambushed by the allegations. The fact is, the BBC and ProPublica have a very strict policy when reporting, which requires them to contact all parties to inform them of what is being investigated and written, and to allow a response. The wheels on this have been turning for weeks, so it is inconceivable to me that Salazar and Farah were blindsided by the documentary and report earlier this week. When he says he is going to be “talking to people and asking questions”, that doesn’t ring true."_

I admit to no longer trusting him and suspect him of being an accomplished liar.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (18 Jun 2015)

Oh look, a former UK athlete leaps to Mo Farah's defence for missing 2 dope tests. Iwan Thomas, first class cock.


----------



## User169 (18 Jun 2015)

Now Farah's reported to have hired crisis management PR hotshots - that's really going to help!


----------



## smutchin (19 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> Iwan Thomas



Linford Christie's mate, isn't he?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (19 Jun 2015)

Is the 'I didn't hear the door bell' defence not like the 'my dog ate my homework' defence ?


----------



## Captain Slackbladder (19 Jun 2015)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Is the 'I didn't hear the door bell' defence not like the 'my dog ate my homework' defence ?


 
Glowing like the Ready Brek Man would be my guess...


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## Hont (19 Jun 2015)

I've been convinced that Farah's dodgy ever since his white training partner bagged a silver behind him in front of a whole bunch of Kenyans and Ethiopians, but missing doping tests is easily done - that's why you need to miss three before any sanction. As someone who has slept through the house alarm going off, I can easily relate to not hearing the doorbell.


----------



## mr messy (19 Jun 2015)

Surely if they have to stipulate their whereabouts for one hour of the day they would be clockwatching, just like going to work...or am i being over simplistic


----------



## psmiffy (19 Jun 2015)

mr messy said:


> Surely if they have to stipulate their whereabouts for one hour of the day they would be clockwatching, just like going to work...or am i being over simplistic



After years of doing it and the doping person not turning up on 362 days of each of those years I suspect not (362 might be an overestimate)


----------



## User169 (19 Jun 2015)

Hont said:


> I've been convinced that Farah's dodgy ever since his white training partner bagged a silver behind him in front of a whole bunch of Kenyans and Ethiopians, but missing doping tests is easily done - that's why you need to miss three before any sanction. As someone who has slept through the house alarm going off, I can easily relate to not hearing the doorbell.



Look at his times though. Those Kenyans/Ethiopians typically have faster PBs than Farah, but tend to let him dictate tactics.


----------



## 400bhp (19 Jun 2015)

Crackle said:


> I was just about to post that. Things are looking darker with concern to Farah. Here is a quote from Ross Tucker on The Science Of Sport, which, as Resal earlier pointed out and which struck me as odd too, he discusses Farah's bizarre press conference of surprised, angry indignation.
> 
> _"Oh, and finally, it does strike me as strange that Farah kept saying he would sit down and talk to Salazar, as though they had been ambushed by the allegations. The fact is, the BBC and ProPublica have a very strict policy when reporting, which requires them to contact all parties to inform them of what is being investigated and written, and to allow a response. The wheels on this have been turning for weeks, so it is inconceivable to me that Salazar and Farah were blindsided by the documentary and report earlier this week. When he says he is going to be “talking to people and asking questions”, that doesn’t ring true."_
> 
> I admit to no longer trusting him and suspect him of being an accomplished liar.



That, on the face of it, sounds odd. I'm sure I read/heard that the BBC told him a month before the show going live?

Although we don't know what "told him" means. It could have been "Well, Mo we have a story on your coach and some accusations about him being dodgy" or they could have shown him the full program. If the former (or something like that) then it's understandable that it would have been hard to scrutinise Salazar at that time.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Jun 2015)

400bhp said:


> That, on the face of it, sounds odd. I'm sure I read/heard that the BBC told him a month before the show going live?
> 
> Although we don't know what "told him" means. It could have been "Well, Mo we have a story on your coach and some accusations about him being dodgy" or they could have shown him the full program. If the former (or something like that) then it's understandable that it would have been hard to scrutinise Salazar at that time.



He was informed of the allegations on May 6th, and asked about whether he had witnessed any doping practices or been encouraged to take banned substances and issued a statement to the documentary makers on May 19th - so his "it's all news to me" approach is a load of crunchy nut cornflakes.,


----------



## Captain Slackbladder (20 Jun 2015)

Farahs obviously come out and denied any wrongdoing, then again it's not like he's gonna say he's doping.
Even those who are silly enough to get busted play the inocent routine to the bitter end, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Jun 2015)

Some bloke who refused a drug test appears to be in the semi final of some tennis competition - I'm at my parents house so have to endure this dirge of a sport in the background

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/te...-failure-provide-blood-sample-drugs-test.html


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## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Jun 2015)

BBC about to debate Mo Farah...Cram and some bloke who missed 2 tests.


----------



## User169 (21 Jun 2015)

So my daughter ran in a road race today. She was out front so ended up running alongside the Dutch cross country champion who was there geeing the kids up. 

His marathon time is 2:10, so may well up running in Rio. Turns out he served a 2 yr ban for a steroid +ve. Usual story -blamed a dodgy supplement his coach picked up in Morocco.







It's all a bit dispiriting really. She was very excited, but you can't help feeling there's a "yes, but..."


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Jun 2015)

Delftse Post said:


> Usual story -blamed a dodgy supplement his coach picked up in Morocco.



All these athletes must be some of the unluckiest people - the number of them that eat food that gives them superpowers, accidently infuse steroids via brushing against someone else, have relatives that are so ill they require carloads of medicine, have coaches who pick up a batch of supplements from dodgy sources they knew nothing about. 

I reckon I should start a luck white heather stall and tour the world selling it to athletes.


----------



## 400bhp (21 Jun 2015)

Delftse Post said:


> So my daughter ran in a road race today. She was out front so ended up running alongside the Dutch cross country champion who was there geeing the kids up.
> 
> His marathon time is 2:10, so may well up running in Rio. Turns out he served a 2 yr ban for a steroid +ve. Usual story -blamed a dodgy supplement his coach picked up in Morocco.
> 
> ...



I hope you don't take this the wrong way (and I'm sure it's something you've thought about) but (if your daughter is good) I would have serious reservations of her having a career in athletics. I wouldn't want some asshat like Salazar getting his way. Stick close to her would be my advice.


----------



## oldroadman (22 Jun 2015)

A career in sport, ah.... So, don't do football, rugby, baseball, US football, weightlifting, tennis, wrestling, track and field, or practically anything else. Everything has it's problems. Might as well try and be a bike rider, at least they get tested and results don't get covered up because there's too much money involved. You* can* do it clean right to the top level. This takes, however, talent, a shedload of hard work, dedication, self-denial, and a steely determination. After all that, if you don't make it, just race at a lower level, be content, and able to look your family in the eye and tell them the truth that you did everything you could to succeed, and at least you gave it everything.


----------



## RitchieJoe (22 Jun 2015)

Whilst I appreciate that you should not take performance enhancing drugs when the sports governing body outlaws it, I personally don't see why they ban them in the first place. The long term side effects of a lot of these substances haven't been proven and I would also like to highlight the difference between use and abuse.

I'm wanting a bit of light hearted and reasonable debate, not to be attacked


----------



## The Couch (22 Jun 2015)

RitchieJoe said:


> Whilst I appreciate that you should not take performance enhancing drugs when the sports governing body outlaws it, I personally don't see why they ban them in the first place. The long term side effects of a lot of these substances haven't been proven and I would also like to highlight the difference between use and abuse.
> 
> I'm wanting a bit of light hearted and reasonable debate, not to be attacked


I think if you dig a bit into the Armstrong thread discussion, you'll find a ton of comments, links, ... on reasons why not to allow doping


----------



## RitchieJoe (22 Jun 2015)

The Couch said:


> I think if you dig a bit into the Armstrong thread discussion, you'll find a ton of comments, links, ... on reasons why not to allow doping


 quite a few of those threads....


----------



## oldroadman (22 Jun 2015)

RitchieJoe said:


> Whilst I appreciate that you should not take performance enhancing drugs when the sports governing body outlaws it, I personally don't see why they ban them in the first place. The long term side effects of a lot of these substances haven't been proven and I would also like to highlight the difference between use and abuse.
> 
> I'm wanting a bit of light hearted and reasonable debate, not to be attacked


Here's a reason or two. In the first person but read as "a rider" - any clean rider.
I don't (didn't) want to damage my health long term and no-one could prove what the future held.
I don't (didn't) want to ride against dopers who could do their job just a little better because they were charged.
I should be able to have the same income prospects based on a little talent and hard graft, as clients of certain doctors.
That's not an attack, just a few of the reasons for rules and testing.
Nothing wrong, nothing to cover up with pathetic excuses (as practiced by those who protest too much, I think).
The more they catch and chuck out, the more chance for a young prospect to have a good career and stay healthy into old age.


----------



## smutchin (23 Jun 2015)

RitchieJoe said:


> The long term side effects of a lot of these substances haven't been proven



Around ten years ago, there was a spate of deaths among young Belgian cyclists linked to EPO. The link may not have been proven beyond all doubt but is it something you'd want to take a chance on?


----------



## User169 (23 Jun 2015)

Pretty well-known side-effects for cortisone use.


----------



## Crackle (23 Jun 2015)

Delftse Post said:


> Pretty well-known side-effects for cortisone use.


And Testosterone and Growth Hormone. 

One of the rumours always surrounding Evans was that his infertility was potentially caused by Testosterone use. The fact that there are numerous other causes and that there's two people involved in baby making (well, mostly), seems to have escaped the conspirators though.


----------



## RitchieJoe (23 Jun 2015)

smutchin said:


> Around ten years ago, there was a spate of deaths among young Belgian cyclists linked to EPO. The link may not have been proven beyond all doubt but is it something you'd want to take a chance on?



Direct deaths from the use of anabolic steroids in the US in 2007 was...... 3. I'd say the belgians were getting bad epo.


----------



## RitchieJoe (23 Jun 2015)

Crackle said:


> And Testosterone and Growth Hormone.
> 
> One of the rumours always surrounding Evans was that his infertility was potentially caused by Testosterone use. The fact that there are numerous other causes and that there's two people involved in baby making (well, mostly), seems to have escaped the conspirators though.



The side effects in men are reversible, I have a lot of friends who bodybuild with the assistance of anabolic steroids and they still have had children. They just follow efficient pct protocol and get regular bloodwork.


----------



## RitchieJoe (23 Jun 2015)

Delftse Post said:


> Pretty well-known side-effects for cortisone use.



Yet they are still used in sports, but there is a difference between use and abuse. Tennis plays when they experience pain still get cortisone shots to break down pain and inflammation which essentially allows them to perform better.


----------



## 400bhp (23 Jun 2015)

RitchieJoe said:


> Whilst I appreciate that you should not take performance enhancing drugs when the sports governing body outlaws it, I personally don't see why they ban them in the first place. The long term side effects of a lot of these substances haven't been proven and I would also like to highlight the difference between use and abuse.
> 
> I'm wanting a bit of light hearted and reasonable debate, not to be attacked



Do you want sport and entertainment or just entertainment?


----------



## RitchieJoe (23 Jun 2015)

400bhp said:


> Do you want sport and entertainment or just entertainment?



That would depend on your definition of sport and entertainment


----------



## 400bhp (23 Jun 2015)

RitchieJoe said:


> That would depend on your definition of sport and entertainment



Start with what the difference is, in your eyes.


----------



## Crackle (23 Jun 2015)

RitchieJoe said:


> The side effects in men are reversible, I have a lot of friends who bodybuild with the assistance of anabolic steroids and they still have had children. They just follow efficient pct protocol and get regular bloodwork.





RitchieJoe said:


> Yet they are still used in sports, but there is a difference between use and abuse. Tennis plays when they experience pain still get cortisone shots to break down pain and inflammation which essentially allows them to perform better.


There's no difference between use and abuse with regard to competitive sport. There's no safe protocol, there's just a protocol, normally medically based, as that's what these drugs are developed for. Everyone reacts differently to drugs, there's no single path. Drug use in sports is dependent on access and money, there's no equality. Drugs distort sport, risk athletes health and create an unequal playing field. They set precedents which start younger and younger in creating pressure on upcoming athletes. They create future problems for the NHS because of their increasing prevalence. There is no safe drug taking, even if you are actually medically in need.


----------



## RitchieJoe (23 Jun 2015)

The only reason it is deemed abuse is because it is prohibited by the governing bodies, I was referring to the actual dosages etc people take. With regards to drugs distorting sports are you referring to people being enhanced by drugs? because diet can also improve performance but because it is not prohibited it's acceptable. before you say it doesn't make that much of a difference, the difference between novak djokovic on a gluten free diet for me and many others is massive.

Would you ban beta blockers in say.... snooker?

If we are saying people who are "enhanced" should be considered cheats then tiger woods should be banned from playing golf.... but he isn't. Risking people's health is a moot point as performance enhancing drugs can be used safely. 

"Drug use in sports is dependent on access and money," - That would also be applicable to equipment and facilities at a young age


----------



## User169 (24 Jun 2015)

RitchieJoe said:


> The side effects in men are reversible, I have a lot of friends who bodybuild with the assistance of anabolic steroids and they still have had children. They just follow efficient pct protocol and get regular bloodwork.



In the UK, HIV rates in steroid users are now about the same as rates in intravenous heroin users. Sounds really safe to me!


----------



## User169 (24 Jun 2015)

RitchieJoe said:


> Yet they are still used in sports, but there is a difference between use and abuse. Tennis plays when they experience pain still get cortisone shots to break down pain and inflammation which essentially allows them to perform better.



And they will very likely suffer the side-effects for that abuse later in life.


----------



## Crackle (24 Jun 2015)

RitchieJoe said:


> The only reason it is deemed abuse is because it is prohibited by the governing bodies, I was referring to the actual dosages etc people take. With regards to drugs distorting sports are you referring to people being enhanced by drugs? because diet can also improve performance but because it is not prohibited it's acceptable. before you say it doesn't make that much of a difference, the difference between novak djokovic on a gluten free diet for me and many others is massive.
> 
> Would you ban beta blockers in say.... snooker?
> 
> ...


I would suggest a separate thread for this, otherwise we'll derail this one. I'm concerned you think there's a safe regime though, you've obviously never spoken to an endocrinologist.


----------



## RitchieJoe (24 Jun 2015)

Crackle said:


> I would suggest a separate thread for this, otherwise we'll derail this one. I'm concerned you think there's a safe regime though, you've obviously never spoken to an endocrinologist.



Just read books written by leading experts/doctors in drug use on sports, friends who have actual experience using them who have their health routinely checked by physicians and a lot of medical journals. When I was watching something a while ago someone made a great point, If you're sick with something like HIV these drugs can save you but if you are a healthy athlete they will kill you.


----------



## Crackle (24 Jun 2015)

Further detail about Salazar emerges

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jun/23/alberto-salazar-claims-steroid-gel-massage-therapist


----------



## rich p (24 Jun 2015)

Crackle said:


> I would suggest a separate thread for this, otherwise we'll derail this one. I'm concerned you think there's a safe regime though, you've obviously never spoken to an endocrinologist.


This^^^
Start a new thread that will be easier for me to ignore please, @RitchieJoe . 
I thought this old chestnut was done and dusted years ago.


----------



## RitchieJoe (24 Jun 2015)

@rich p 

Will do


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jun 2015)

Crackle said:


> Further detail about Salazar emerges
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jun/23/alberto-salazar-claims-steroid-gel-massage-therapist



"Mo Farah’s coach Alberto Salazar often warned his athletes not to touch his bags because he feared contaminating them with his testosterone..."

Surely I'm not the only one who has a picture of him standing naked pointing to his balls and saying "Do not, whatever you do, touch these globes of virility"


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (24 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> "Mo Farah’s coach Alberto Salazar often warned his athletes not to touch his bags because he feared contaminating them with his testosterone..."
> 
> Surely I'm not the only one who has a picture of him standing naked pointing to his balls and saying "Do not, whatever you do, touch these globes of virility"


Ooh, anabolic spheroids!


----------



## Captain Slackbladder (24 Jun 2015)

No suprise he's came out and pretty much denied everything, I'm in total shock...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (25 Jun 2015)

Salazar responding to allegations that were not even made, denying some that were made and confirming (but it's ok...) others:
http://www.propublica.org/article/alberto-salazar-disputes-allegations-some-of-which-were-never-made


----------



## smutchin (25 Jun 2015)

No further questions, m'lud.


----------



## Crackle (27 Jun 2015)

I'm including this article here because there isn't a better thread for it and it mentions doping in it's specualtion which is primarily what it would take to run a sub 2hr marathon and if it is even possible. Turns out someone has calculated that it is physiologically possible for the perfect athlete. It's a long article but well worth a read, especially for the light it shines on Kenyan runners and what running means to them and their villages in economic terms.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jun/27/sub-two-hour-marathon-ed-caesar


----------



## smutchin (27 Jun 2015)

Good read that.


----------



## raindog (27 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> "Mo Farah’s coach Alberto Salazar often warned his athletes not to touch his bags because he feared contaminating them with his testosterone..."


----------



## HF2300 (28 Jun 2015)

Mo sticking with Salazar: http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jun/26/mo-farah-continue-working-with-alberto-salazar


----------



## Crackle (29 Jun 2015)

The net may be closing on Salazar if there's anything in these allegations supposedly coming forward.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33308434


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (29 Jun 2015)

HF2300 said:


> Mo sticking with Salazar: http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jun/26/mo-farah-continue-working-with-alberto-salazar


He's following the "script" to the letter is Mo


----------



## Captain Slackbladder (30 Jun 2015)

Marmion said:


> He's following the "script" to the letter is Mo



The denials and attacks on those making the allegations, it all sounds very familiar.


----------



## smutchin (30 Jun 2015)

#neverbeentestedpositive


----------



## The Couch (30 Jun 2015)

smutchin said:


> #neverbeentestedpositive


Yeah, okay ...but how many times have you been tested?


----------



## rich p (30 Jun 2015)

The Couch said:


> Yeah, okay ...but how many times have you been tested?


He's the most tested poster on the planet.
That's on Earth though; I believe there's a former cyclist on Zog who was tested more.


----------



## oldroadman (30 Jun 2015)

RitchieJoe said:


> The only reason it is deemed abuse is because it is prohibited by the governing bodies, I was referring to the actual dosages etc people take. With regards to drugs distorting sports are you referring to people being enhanced by drugs? because diet can also improve performance but because it is not prohibited it's acceptable. before you say it doesn't make that much of a difference, the difference between novak djokovic on a gluten free diet for me and many others is massive.
> 
> Would you ban beta blockers in say.... snooker?
> 
> ...



Para 1. Food is natural, drugs are not.
Para 2. Beta blockers are banned in snooker, obvious reasons.
Para 3. If Mr Woods tested positive for banned drugs under golf/WADA rules, he should get a suspension. Performance enhancing drugs are never totally safe. The statement is nonsense.
Para 4. Not necessarily, unscrupulous coaches can support their "talent". This is not comparable to access to good equipment or facilities. All that does is open opportunity. Success still takes talent and a lot of hard work.
I guess this must be a statement designed to provoke comment, because I cannot believe that anyone is actually saying performance enhancing drug use is OK.
It's not. It stinks.


----------



## RitchieJoe (30 Jun 2015)

I'm going to refrain from continuing the discussion as I have been politely asked not to


----------



## The Couch (1 Jul 2015)

rich p said:


> He's the most tested poster on the planet.
> That's on Earth though; I believe there's a former cyclist on Zog who was tested more.


You're talking about Amy Phetaminox, right?


----------



## threebikesmcginty (1 Jul 2015)




----------



## User169 (1 Jul 2015)

threebikesmcginty said:


> View attachment 94533



What does it says on the back of his shirt 3BM?


----------



## 400bhp (1 Jul 2015)

Delftse Post said:


> What does it says on the back of his shirt 3BM?



How do you know it says anything on the back of his shirt?


----------



## albion (3 Jul 2015)

Anytime anyone is injured in football I wonder if they are quietly serving a doping ban.
It seems the same thought pattern applies to tennis.
www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-2478649/Jo-Wilfried-Tsonga-Everybody-lies-drugs.html

Seems Murray next plays a guy, who after 5 ok blood tests suddenly decided he was not having a post match test because of a phobia!!!


----------



## albion (3 Jul 2015)

Another enigma is Nadal and his supposed 'dodgy knees'. I thought it was injury which means he will not win another grand slam, yet other do not think the same.
tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/curious-case-of-rafael-nadal.html


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (4 Jul 2015)

User said:


> Azerbaijan host nation of the 2015 european games picked up 56 medals including 21 golds, finishing 2nd in the over all medal table, mostly in Boxing, Wrestling, Martial arts, sports not immune from doping, ......just saying....


Probably not sports where you'd want to question them face to face about it....


----------



## HF2300 (4 Jul 2015)

albion said:


> Anytime anyone is injured in football I wonder if they are quietly serving a doping ban.
> It seems the same thought pattern applies to tennis.
> www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-2478649/Jo-Wilfried-Tsonga-Everybody-lies-drugs.html
> 
> Seems Murray next plays a guy, who after 5 ok blood tests suddenly decided he was not having a post match test because of a phobia!!!



Murray and others have long been critical of the lax anti-doping regime in tennis.

Have to say, I can't help feeling suspicious of Djokovic's almost ludicrous endurance levels. I'm not sure a gluten free diet is that beneficial. If @Marmion watched tennis I think the Witchfinder General's nose, fingers and everything else would be twitching.


----------



## Crackle (4 Jul 2015)

HF2300 said:


> Have to say, I can't help feeling suspicious of Djokovic's almost ludicrous endurance levels. I'm not sure a gluten free diet is that beneficia


I raised that point in this very thread, some time ago when I saw a newspaper report about the Djokovic diet miracle. It's possible of course but definitely questionable.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2015)

albion said:


> www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-2478649/Jo-Wilfried-Tsonga-Everybody-lies-drugs.html



"tennis remains a relatively clean sport"


----------



## albion (4 Jul 2015)

Out of sight, out of mind, golf being another?

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobil...-the-bunker-when-it-comes-to-doping.121739514

But wasn't it 2009 when Tennis actually started doing some proper testing . That year, the story has it that a very very large percentage simply chose to miss their test.


----------



## albion (4 Jul 2015)

http://www.weiunderpar.com/post/car...spended-doper-doug-barron-returns-at-q-school

"But for the Doug Barrons, who aren’t tour cash cows, they test positive for ‘roids and there will be consequences!" inferring that things is likely hushed for any top guy who gives a positive.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (4 Jul 2015)

Crackle said:


> I raised that point in this very thread, some time ago when I saw a newspaper report about the Djokovic diet miracle. It's possible of course but definitely questionable.


Mark Teixera, New York Yankees first baseman has been recently following the gluten free diet and attributes his recent health and excellent form
article HERE


----------



## HF2300 (4 Jul 2015)

smutchin said:


> "tennis remains a relatively clean sport"



In the same way US Postal were clean, presumably.


----------



## HF2300 (4 Jul 2015)

Crackle said:


> I raised that point in this very thread, some time ago when I saw a newspaper report about the Djokovic diet miracle. It's possible of course but definitely questionable.



Although I suppose the hyperbaric oxygen chamber he may or may not be using to mask EPO and transfusions improve his endurance might have something to do with it.


----------



## Hont (6 Jul 2015)

Crackle said:


> I raised that point in this very thread, some time ago when I saw a newspaper report about the Djokovic diet miracle. It's possible of course but definitely questionable.


Food intolerances/allergies can sometimes be the result of steroid use. So even if the Gluten free story is not BS, it may still indicate PED use.

After Operation Puerto only someone with their head in the sand believes that Tennis (and football) is clean.


----------



## albion (9 Jul 2015)

I quite imagine allergies are seldom due to steroids. However, when my allergies were at the most extreme I experimented giving up caffeine in case that was a problem.

What happened wa quite stark. Night time beathing problems meant I was hardly functioing in the mornings and giving up that morning caffeine dose made it feel 100 times worse. So caffeine works yet caffeine addiction might just be a sign of underying other problems. 

And I was once a long term user of that blue inhaler. What I notice now is that anything over 15 mph is unsustainable for me but many a top athelte will have a level where inflammation kicks in, even if slight compared to my major inflammation.
Should blue inhaler users be allowed to race? Personally I would say, not if near everyone benefits from it, ignoring the negative ependency aspect of it.


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2015)

Tyson Gay has got his violin out

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33450535


----------



## Captain Slackbladder (10 Jul 2015)

Just the 9.75 from Gatlin last night....


----------



## The Couch (10 Jul 2015)

Captain Slackbladder said:


> Just the 9.75 from Gatlin last night....



Wow... what an athlete.. so strong, so fast 

But you know... if you would digital (or mentally) put Bolt's World Record race(s) in the same race, Gatlin wouldn't be much more in the race as that the others were now versus him


----------



## 400bhp (10 Jul 2015)

I hate Gatlin


----------



## Andrew Br (10 Jul 2015)

400bhp said:


> I hate Gatlin



Sounds like you're gunning for him.


----------



## robertob (16 Jul 2015)

It may have been already discussed here, but there is apparently a natural way to "dope" - simply buy the enlightening book ‘Serve To Win’ by Novak Djokovic, and if you follow it, this can happen:

_"From being a player with suspect fitness, Djokovic has become arguably the greatest athlete in world tennis, combining stamina and strength with extraordinary speed and flexibility."
_
Sounds almost too good to be true. But here's the source: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tennis/revealed-the-diet-that-saved-novak-djokovic-8775333.html

Stupid cyclists did it all the wrong way all the years....


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2015)

robertob said:


> Sounds almost too good to be true.



Funny that.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2015)

WADA Director David Howman has said that based on informed estimates and assessments, around 10% of athletes are doping "which is worrying, because we're catching much less than that"


----------



## rich p (24 Jul 2015)

HF2300 said:


> WADA Director David Howman has said that based on informed estimates and assessments, around 10% of athletes are doping "which is worrying, because we're catching much less than that"


That sounds like a conservative figure if he accepts that 90% of Russians were at it


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2015)

Think he's talking about the current situation, and it did seem he thought it might be an underestimate - "some guesstimates, based on some research...".

Link to the interview is here


----------



## rich p (24 Jul 2015)

HF2300 said:


> Think he's talking about the current situation, and it did seem he thought it might be an underestimate - "some guesstimates, based on some research...".
> 
> Link to the interview is here


I'll have a listen in a while. 
I'm not yet convinced that the Russians have cleaned up their act tho!


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2015)

If you take all sports that fall within WADA's remit as a whole then maybe the figure is close, but clearly it's more prevalent in some sports than others.

Probably more than 10% in cycling, but I don't think cycling really deserves its reputation as an institutionally dirty sport - not any more, and certainly not compared to some other sports.


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## smutchin (24 Jul 2015)

Although I've just realised that 'athletes' refers specifically to track & field rather than sportspeople in general...


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2015)

I haven't listened to the whole interview yet - I heard a clip on the Today programme - but the way they reported it gave the impression they meant athletes as a whole, not just track and field.

TBH I'd like to think it's now less than 10% in (top level pro) cycling, at least excluding the 'old guard', but perhaps I'm naive


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2015)

London Anniversary Games on BBC2 - passing comment on doping and then the usual gush-fest from Denise and Colin et al. A fecking joke.


----------



## albion (24 Jul 2015)

At least athletics tackles it.

Sports where hushing is the norm things up seem to both encourage drug taking and suspicion whenever anyone takes an 'injury/personal reasons' break.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2015)

It would appear that the following are more important than drugs when winning an athletics event:
God
Jesus
The Crowd


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2015)

In fact why are all sporting events not just called "London" - quite clearly nothing has ever been better before or after. Even change the name of Jesus to London.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2015)

Sorry, I was wrong - Mo. Mo is Jesus. London is "wherever Jesus hung out"


----------



## mr messy (24 Jul 2015)

Mo Farah wankfest! He's one of ours not some shady juiced up jonny foreigner...it really is way over the top.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2015)

An in-depth post-race interview with Mo by the BBC: "So, the crowd..?" "And the 'lympics legacy?" "Whatabout the crowd?" "You are great" "I like that cereal you do adverts for"


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## albion (24 Jul 2015)

Sophisticated for the BBC.

'How does that feel' is the stock athletics interview question.


----------



## Captain Slackbladder (30 Jul 2015)

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/athletics/33723197

Suprise Suprise....


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Aug 2015)

Russia and Kenya in the spotlight (again)
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.sportschau.de/doping/interview-hajo-seppelt-geheimsache-doping-fortsetzung-100.html&edit-text=&act=url

The programme is being broadcast now and there are twitter summaries appearing - looks as if there are lots of athletics test results which have been leaked and also IAAF officials notifying athletes of time/dates of upcoming tests. Oh dear.

edit - former training partner of Geoffrey Tarno stating he took EPO and died as a result of this.
http://www.runnersworld.com/newswire/kenyan-dies-soon-after-leading-marathon


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Aug 2015)

Linford Christie is on Pointless.


----------



## 400bhp (1 Aug 2015)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33749208


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## albion (2 Aug 2015)

"In some finals, every athlete in the three medal positions had recorded a suspicious blood test.
Russia emerges as "the blood testing epicentre of the world" with more than 80% of the country's medals won by suspicious athletes, while Kenya had 18 medals won by suspicious athletes."

Yet it is right what the IAAF claim, that being that they are the most proactive sport when it comes to drugs.
So I would hazard a guess and alter the first line to ""In some money sports, every athlete coming in the three top positions is near always a doper".


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Aug 2015)

A dozen top British athletes with abnormal blood scores
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/thedopingscandal/article1588410.ece


----------



## MrGrumpy (2 Aug 2015)

names can`t stay secret for long :/ must be suspicions on who is doing what?? Not surprised just waiting on other sports outing some names, very suspicious of certain tennis stars??


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Aug 2015)

400bhp said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33749208



"Britain's Mo Farah and Jamaican sprinter Usain Bolt recorded no abnormal results."


----------



## jarlrmai (2 Aug 2015)

The press will eke out the names over the next year in the build up to the worlds and the 2016 Olympics to get maximum mileage.


----------



## robertob (2 Aug 2015)

Interesting interview with Paul Kimmage on the Athletics story on Newstalk today. Paul was quite agitated and emotional, as we know him. Good to listen to his opinion if you've got some minutes to spare: http://www.newstalk.com/Paul-Kimmag...ves-it-ruins-lives-and-it-has-to-be-addressed


----------



## 400bhp (2 Aug 2015)

Good to see the IAAF mimicking the UCI of a couple of year's ago.

I used to look up to Bubka. Now he appears a nob.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Aug 2015)

400bhp said:


> I used to look up to Bubka. Now he appears a nob.



I used to look up to him, and then down again as he came over the bar.

I'll get my own coat.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (2 Aug 2015)

400bhp said:


> Good to see the IAAF mimicking the UCI of a couple of year's ago.


'Tis all a bit déjà vu, isn't it. How the IAAF, and Coe domestically, deal with it is the issue.


----------



## rich p (3 Aug 2015)

The maddening thing is that the Russian and Kenyan authorities just issue denials and cries of witch hunt which only reinforces their guilt.


----------



## rich p (3 Aug 2015)

And swimming is suspected to be rife with dopage by an insider too. No surprises there

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/sport/sp...ht-ueber-doping-im-schwimmsport-13731452.html


----------



## HF2300 (3 Aug 2015)

Item on INRNG about the IAAF leak and the relationship to cycling: http://inrng.com/2015/08/iaaf-athletics-anti-doping-cycling-lessons/#more-26049


----------



## SWSteve (3 Aug 2015)

Yet another fantastic piece by INRNG.


----------



## albion (4 Aug 2015)

Seems an analysisof thatdata wasproduced 4 years ago. FIFA style ?

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33777915

It is getting easy to see why other sports tests, if ever done at all, are kept secret.


----------



## 400bhp (4 Aug 2015)

That anti doping budget of $2m is utterly useless.


----------



## psmiffy (4 Aug 2015)

400bhp said:


> That anti doping budget of $2m is utterly useless.



yup in the context of the WORLD take in gate money and sponsorship for all the athletic organisations and promoters - but what is that $2M - as I understand it that is just for the overall running of the programme - it is the individual national organisations that undertake the testing


----------



## 400bhp (4 Aug 2015)

User said:


> it might be only $2m but it red flagged thousands of suspect blood values, but if the IAAF or whomever didn't - weren't - aren't prepared to do the required follow up checks, then I'm not sure in the present system what a bigger budget would have done...



They ran out of budget so they couldn't do anything with the suspect blood values. Ridiculous. It tells me a lot that they actually are defending their position by quoting this. I have budgets at work which are far bigger.


----------



## themosquitoking (4 Aug 2015)

400bhp said:


> They ran out of budget so they couldn't do anything with the suspect blood values. Ridiculous. It tells me a lot that they actually are defending their position by quoting this. *I have budgets at work which are far bigger*.


I suspect that so do the researchers producing the next EPO.


----------



## Bollo (5 Aug 2015)

Lord Coe is angry.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/aug/04/lord-coe-allegations-iaaf-drug-testing


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Aug 2015)

Bollo said:


> Lord Coe is angry.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/aug/04/lord-coe-allegations-iaaf-drug-testing


Yeh, that's right Seb - attack the messenger. Typical doping apologist response.


----------



## themosquitoking (5 Aug 2015)

He's just said more or less the same on R4, there is no problem and everyone involved in athletics is very angry that you keep saying there is.


----------



## rich p (5 Aug 2015)

They all turn into Fat Pat McQuaid. Complacent wánkers


----------



## HF2300 (5 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> They all turn into Fat Pat McQuaid. Complacent wánkers





Seb Coe's manifesto pledge said:


> "Increasing resources for anti-doping and creating a new IAAF ethics department"





Seb Coe on 11 June 2015 said:


> "I am convinced that athletics can reclaim a new golden era, but to deliver this ambition I believe that we must have the right IAAF structures and resources in place, including a fully independent anti-doping agency for international level athletics."





Seb Coe on 2 August 2015 said:


> "[the IAAF] takes these allegations extremely seriously [and] will issue a robust and detailed response to them"





Seb Coe on 5 August 2015 said:


> ""It is a declaration of war on my sport. There is nothing in our history of competence and integrity in drug-testing that warrants this kind of attack."



Some do it quicker than others...


----------



## Captain Slackbladder (5 Aug 2015)

" Coe, who is standing in the IAAF presidential election on 19 August, added''

Kerching


----------



## rich p (5 Aug 2015)

HF2300 said:


> Some do it quicker than others...


Maybe it was different when the media were witch hunting those evil Ruskies. Now it's a bit closer to home....


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (5 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> They all turn into Fat Pat McQuaid. Complacent wánkers


You know that weird feeling you get when you can't remember if you've already mentioned déjà vu on this thread....


----------



## Crackle (5 Aug 2015)

First denial, then anger.........


----------



## Strathlubnaig (5 Aug 2015)

HF2300 said:


> Some do it quicker than others...


me thinks he doth protest too much


----------



## Mattonsea (5 Aug 2015)

Bollo said:


> Lord Coe is angry.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/aug/04/lord-coe-allegations-iaaf-drug-testing


He is playing a stupid game ,just to get elected . It is McQuaid all over again ....is Jamaica donating test equipment for the IAAF .


----------



## Chromatic (6 Aug 2015)

Did you all read The Times' article? I wonder who the athlete who threatened to sue is, saying '.....you won't be getting any money back in future like Lance Armstrong- I can promise you that'.


----------



## rich p (9 Aug 2015)

_"If these scientists have evidence that the IAAF did not follow up suspicious samples, then they should immediately make this available to the Wada Commission. 
"If they do not have evidence, then we urge that they refrain from making assertions of wrongdoing."_
.....

...._Russian Liliya Shobukhova,__ who won in 2010 and was runner-up in 2011, has had her results since 2009 annulled. The Sunday Times claims that she recorded "extreme blood scores" for nine years before the athletics authorities finally took action against her in 2014, and that marathon organisers were not told about the scores.
_
QED?


----------



## Crackle (9 Aug 2015)

Ashenden is always involved in this stuff it seems but I've never seen any reason to doubt his opinion and the way the IAAF is failling over themselves, despite the noise, I don't think they do either.


----------



## albion (9 Aug 2015)

Quite sad really.

Those 'other sports' already hiding things via minimal secret testing will be destrying the evidence right now I well bet.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Aug 2015)

I see that Mo Farrah is saying that he'll make his data available. The data we already know is not suspicious.

How about those with suspicious data doing likewise?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> I see that Mo Farrah is saying that he'll make his data available. The data we already know is not suspicious.
> 
> How about those with suspicious data doing likewise?



If the clean athletes let their data be known, then by default any one that doesn't will be marked as a doper. Good call I say


----------



## rich p (9 Aug 2015)

User said:


> Eilish McColgan talks about blood testing
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33841145


Below this story are 5 so-called 'related' links to other athletics and athletics doping stories, which includes Jimmy Anderson being in the 5th Test squad.
I think he should sue.


----------



## psmiffy (9 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> Below this story are 5 so-called 'related' links to other athletics and athletics doping stories, which includes Jimmy Anderson being in the 5th Test squad.
> I think he should sue.



It has to assumed that the stories in the Aussie press about ball doping are true


----------



## 400bhp (9 Aug 2015)

All the athletics stuff -it was just a matter of time. 

Just look at Gatlin sticking two fingers up.

It still comes back to risk vs reward. The risks must outweigh the reward so many times over, but they don't. Until then, in ALL sports, doping will continue.


----------



## 400bhp (9 Aug 2015)

User said:


> .
> The London marathon race chief criticises the IAAF, its all a bit tit for tat at the moment...
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33840230



Yeahbutt:


> The London Marathon has spent tens of thousands of pounds on testing athletes and supporting the development of anti-doping measures over the years.



So, let's say £50k over, let's say 10 years. £5k a year, maybe £10k a year being optimistic. 

It's just pishing into the wind.

I am actually pretty angry as athletics comes second to me in sports I enjoy.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (11 Aug 2015)

Right, now that the dopers have retired, the IAAF comes out and reveals that, oh, yes, they were doping and the IAAF were always going to deal with it. Anybody convinced?


----------



## themosquitoking (11 Aug 2015)

I can't find a list of the names anywhere yet.


----------



## Crackle (11 Aug 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Right, now that the dopers have retired, the IAAF comes out and reveals that, oh, yes, they were doping and the IAAF were always going to deal with it. Anybody convinced?


No.


----------



## HF2300 (12 Aug 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Right, now that the dopers have retired, the IAAF comes out and reveals that, oh, yes, they were doping and the IAAF were always going to deal with it. Anybody convinced?



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33867962



The BBC's Dan Roan said:


> A central plank of Coe's IAAF presidential election campaign has been getting tougher on doping and he has spoken about life bans for those caught cheating. However, given his involvement in the IAAF for several years, and his condemnation of the media outlets who have exposed the leaked files, is he too close to make those changes?



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33789481


----------



## Dogtrousers (12 Aug 2015)

HF2300 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33789481


Rather poor choice of words:
*Blood doping: Is fixing athletics Lord Coe's greatest challenge?*
Race fixing as well as doping?


----------



## PaddyMcc (16 Aug 2015)

I would like to think that this means that cycling will no longer be seen as the dirty sport, I doubt it though


----------



## MacB (16 Aug 2015)

pretty standard template these days for responding to dodginess seeing the light of day....doesn't matter if it's sport, business, politics - for your bingo cards:-

the odd bad apple
historical problems but clean as a clean thing now
dodgy foreigners
dodgy doctors
witch hunt
ushering in an era of full transparency
scientists/experts with a grudge doing dodgy analysis to damage a sport/organisation
a full and frank inquiry - expect 'frank' to go suddenly silent when results time comes around
lessons learned
new super duper checks and balances
let's put the bad old days behind us - even if they were only last week
a tough crackdown with serious sanctions...unless of course.......
implausible deniability - the head honchos really knew nothing and hadn't even heard any rumours despite a lifetime involvement
attack the messengers

Fell free to add to the bingo card, I think house may already have been called on the above list


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (16 Aug 2015)

Respect the athletes:

"Gatlin is eligible to compete and he should be respected for the fact that he is eligible to compete" - Lord Coe.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (16 Aug 2015)

Just read that there will be 50 convicted dopers at the World Athletics Championships.


----------



## Dogtrousers (16 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> Just read that there will be 50 convicted dopers at the World Athletics Championships.


Which just goes to show how effective the IAAf is at catching and convicting dopers  
All must be well


----------



## HF2300 (17 Aug 2015)

The IAAF say 'look - we are doing something, honest guv - we've stripped the medal from someone you've never heard of'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33964788


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## psmiffy (17 Aug 2015)

HF2300 said:


> The IAAF say 'look - we are doing something, honest guv - we've stripped the medal from someone you've never heard of'
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33964788



that process started over 18months ago - only now appeared after the CAS decision went IAAF's way against home association Turkey who didn't impose a ban - the seeming lack of action seems to be that its all very well saying the results are "abnormal" but proving it beyond doubt at CAS (or for that matter in a German court it would seem) is another matter - note the use of a "negotiated" settlement at CAS - plus the reticence of the home associations to implement ban (seen that in another sport)


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## Pro Tour Punditry (19 Aug 2015)

Hands up if you think Paula Radcliffe sounds convincing?

"People don't understand it, it's very complicated..."

Really? Really?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (19 Aug 2015)

"I will always defend the probity and integrity of my sport" - yes Seb, we know that. As do many "so called" journalists and "so called" scientists. You utter twat.


----------



## woohoo (19 Aug 2015)

I don't have any view one way or the other on this particular case but IMHO that statement was very clumsy / lacked credibility (and to be fair, I have no idea howthe interview was edited etc), however, if she had said "Piss off. It's my data and I choose not to release it", I would have had a more sympathetic view than I do now..


----------



## rich p (19 Aug 2015)

Releasing his data didn't shut up the doubters of Chris Froome


----------



## woohoo (19 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> Releasing his data didn't shut up the doubters of Chris Froome


I don't think the release of the data is the issue; the claim that "People don't understand it, it's very complicated..." is the point of contention for me. For sure the nutters in the Clinic will make something out of nothing but there are plenty of independent experts who could add value, given access to the data (of any athlete).


----------



## psmiffy (19 Aug 2015)

Probably not many independent experts - they all have got a hand in the fire - either for a world/national body or one or other side of the table at CAS - and it would seem that there there are as many different interpretations depending on which side of the fire you are sitting


----------



## oldroadman (19 Aug 2015)

psmiffy said:


> Probably not many independent experts - they all have got a hand in the fire - either for a world/national body or one or other side of the table at CAS - and it would seem that there there are as many different interpretations depending on which side of the fire yoto be recovered wu are sitting


Let WADA organise the testing and publish the results. Form an independent AADF (like CADF but for track and field). Ask Brian Cookson for advice. Then I'll believe Lord Coe is credible and serious. Next in the spotlight should be tennis, football, rugby, gymnastics, and believe it or not, golf (to be an Olympic "sport" in 2016). Almost all big money games where administrators with conflict of interests would rather not have the layers peeled away to see what is actually happening.


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## psmiffy (19 Aug 2015)

oldroadman said:


> Form an independent AADF (like CADF but for track and field).



I believe it is one of the central planks of Coe's manifesto (although he seems to want to go further than that) - interestingly the CADF anti-doping expert is actually from the IAAF (and WADA)


----------



## rich p (19 Aug 2015)

woohoo said:


> plenty of independent experts who could add value,


...or add confusion, obfuscation and tittle tattle, á la Antoine Vayer and other armchair scientists.


----------



## woohoo (20 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> ...or add confusion, obfuscation and tittle tattle, á la Antoine Vayer and other armchair scientists.


I was thinking of an approach along the lines suggested by oldroadman. I think there is a huge difference between "independent experts" and "armchair scientists"

The existence of the Clinic nutters shouldn't be used as an excuse for complacency (in general rather than in this particular case).


----------



## rich p (20 Aug 2015)

woohoo said:


> I was thinking of an approach along the lines suggested by oldroadman. I think there is a huge difference between "independent experts" and "armchair scientists"


I think that was the position that psmiffy and I were taking, not you. You suggested that the data should be released for all and sundry to pore over.


woohoo said:


> there are plenty of independent experts who could add value, given access to the data (of any athlete).


Like ORM, I'd rather WADA or other doping test bodies were given unfettered access to the data and BP.
I also don't believe there are 'plenty of independent experts' with a disinterested view, sitting around with enough time to assess all the data; so you end up with half-baked speculation from Vayer, Ross Tucker and Uncle Tom Cobley.


----------



## woohoo (20 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> I think that was the position that psmiffy and I were taking, not you. You suggested that the data should be released for all and sundry to pore over.


I admire your powers of ESP and mind reading, albeit that you are entirely wrong. How you can interpret "independent expert" as "all and sundry" is beyond me and looks like a wilful misinterpretation of what I said. 



> Like ORM, I'd rather WADA or other doping test bodies were given unfettered access to the data and BP.


So do I but they need access to the data before they can perform the analysis.


----------



## rich p (20 Aug 2015)

woohoo said:


> I admire your powers of ESP and mind reading, albeit that you are entirely wrong. How you can interpret "independent expert" as "all and sundry" is beyond me and looks like a wilful misinterpretation of what I said.
> 
> 
> So do I but they need access to the data before they can perform the analysis.


Sorry if I've misinterpreted your position.

I thought you wanted open access to the data but maybe you want these 'independent experts' (whoever they are) to be given the info secretly?
Otherwise all and sundry will be able to pore over it surely?

I agree that for the data to be the preserve of WADA needs them to have the data! Clearly!
But that was my position as stated above.


----------



## woohoo (20 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> Sorry if I've misinterpreted your position.
> 
> I thought you wanted open access to the data


No far from it and maybe I should have made that clearer


> but maybe you want these 'independent experts' (whoever they are) to be given the info secretly?


Well.... under well controlled and documented procedures including non-disclosure agreements (along the lines of an audit) and in any event the data has to be made available to other agencies in the case of an appeal.


----------



## oldroadman (20 Aug 2015)

This whole business of data release is messy. It should be released only to those agencies with a need to know. WADA and independent Anti-Doping Foundations (e.g. CADF). Then in the event of an appeal, and only then, would it go to the appeal body (e.g. CAS), the competitor and his/her lawyer, and all done with confidentiality agreements until such time as a verdict is reached. The armchair opinion merchants and "experts" who have their own non-neutral agenda should have no access, as their comments count for nothing, in my view. Mostly governing bodies need to be kept out, because of conflict of interest, and an enforceable standard code and table of sanctions laid down by an authority such as WADA.
Plus plenty of out of competition testing, because anyone who gets caught in competition is an idiot and needs a life ban anyway.
Grumpy rant over, it's raining and I don't like going out in the rain anymore, it was bad enough when I was getting paid to do it!


----------



## Cathryn (20 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> Hands up if you think Paula Radcliffe sounds convincing?
> 
> "People don't understand it, it's very complicated..."
> 
> Really? Really?



She broke my heart a little. I still believe she is clean (I HAVE TO believe she is clean) but if she is clean, why would she not release her data? Not necessary to the uneducated masses (i.e. publish online) but release it to independent experts such as the Sunday Times guys. 

If Paula is not clean.... ugh!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Aug 2015)

Cathryn said:


> If Paula is not clean.... ugh!



Was there not reports of her being "not that clean" during a race once?


----------



## Cathryn (20 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> Was there not reports of her being "not that clean" during a race once?



In that case, I'm not clean either


----------



## albion (20 Aug 2015)

Don't worry.Seb Coe likely has her on a promise so she is doing her bit.

I think Seb did a good job in the crisis, "playing ball" and not casting aspertions on sports where teams with incredible stamina in a team is a bit unreal.


----------



## rich p (20 Aug 2015)

Cathryn said:


> She broke my heart a little. I still believe she is clean (I HAVE TO believe she is clean) but if she is clean, why would she not release her data? Not necessary to the uneducated masses (i.e. publish online) but release it to independent experts such as the Sunday Times guys.
> 
> If Paula is not clean.... ugh!


She's clean Cath!
Much like Wiggo, it would be perversely perverse for an athlete/cyclist to be as vocal about anti-doping as they both were during their careers. She stood on the side of the track at a World Champs (maybe Edmonton?) with a sign protesting against dopers during a distance race. A doper would surely have just kept their head down.
IMH etc etc


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Aug 2015)

Why it’s so hard to catch cheaters
http://velonews.competitor.com/2015...-to-catch-cheaters_381972#6ZPlzGr0kOwYMUsZ.99


----------



## Bobby Mhor (20 Aug 2015)

The thing that doesn't seem right with Lord Coe..
is his ties with Nike...

Surely one of the biggest sponsor of athletes and the new president must be a conflict of interest..


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Aug 2015)

Bobby Mhor said:


> The thing that doesn't seem right with Lord Coe..


There are many things that do not seem right with Coe. FIFA ethics committee anyone?


----------



## HF2300 (20 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> Why it’s so hard to catch cheaters
> http://velonews.competitor.com/2015...-to-catch-cheaters_381972#6ZPlzGr0kOwYMUsZ.99



Direct link to the full article: http://www.propublica.org/article/speed-bumps-why-its-so-hard-to-catch-cheaters-in-track-and-field?


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## albion (23 Aug 2015)

Yes, exisiting ties get more diffiuclt when you get to the top.

Nike sponsoring Gatlin makes one wonder what Gatlin has on Nike. Rather strangely that other returning doper Tyson Gay wears Nike, not under sponsorship !


----------



## rich p (23 Aug 2015)

The thing that puzzles me is that Gatlin is running btter times than when he was doping...

unless, of course, he's still at it

or the beneficial effects are long term

or he's clean now and never needed to dope in the first place


----------



## Hacienda71 (23 Aug 2015)

Come on Bolt. Really don't want to see Gatlin win.


----------



## Hacienda71 (23 Aug 2015)

Boom, get in.


----------



## Dayvo (23 Aug 2015)

Hacienda71 said:


> Boom, get in.



And Gatlout!


----------



## smutchin (24 Aug 2015)

Hacienda71 said:


> Come on Bolt. Really don't want to see Gatlin win.



http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/08/12/bernstein-usain-bolt-is-probably-doping-and-you-know-it/


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## Hacienda71 (24 Aug 2015)

smutchin said:


> http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/08/12/bernstein-usain-bolt-is-probably-doping-and-you-know-it/


Mind you so is Froome according to some of the media. Gatlin is a two time caught unrepentant doper.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...al-his-blood-data-to-the-public-10464736.html


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## smutchin (24 Aug 2015)

Hacienda71 said:


> Mind you so is Froome according to some of the media. Gatlin is a two time caught unrepentant doper.
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...al-his-blood-data-to-the-public-10464736.html



At the 2012 100m final, he beat Gatlin, Powell, Blake and Gay... 

I find his apparent willingness to reveal his blood data encouraging though.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (24 Aug 2015)

albion said:


> Nike sponsoring Gatlin makes one wonder what Gatlin has on Nike. Rather strangely that other returning doper Tyson Gay wears Nike, not under sponsorship !


More possible that the infamous Mr Salazar is a Nike Athletics Coach......


----------



## Strathlubnaig (26 Aug 2015)

And a couple Kenyans fail the test... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/34060603


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## Pro Tour Punditry (26 Aug 2015)

The Kenyans do seem to be (suddenly) very good at a lot of events other than long distances, including the javelin 

And Denise Lewis continues to gush, despite the very next article being about doped Kenyan athletes.


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## 400bhp (28 Aug 2015)

Schippers 200m today -


----------



## albion (29 Aug 2015)

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/06/2...ng-at-the-world-cup-thats-what-fifa-says.html

"FIFA is spending big bucks to ship urine and blood samples from these games 5,600 miles or more to Switzerland to have them tested at an official WADA lab."
It is now 21 years since there was a positive in an international football tournament. They are certainly taking the urine!

Evidence there had it rife in the Spanish 1st and 2nd division. Yet teams everywhere with amazing fitness have always looked suspect.


----------



## smutchin (29 Aug 2015)

USA disqualified from the 4x100 final for cocking up their last change. Schadenfreude much?

Jamaica's time was pretty _incredible_ considering the hash they made of their first two changes.


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## HF2300 (29 Aug 2015)

400bhp said:


> Schippers 200m today -



Times comparable to FloJo and Marion Jones. Not company she'd like to be in, I suspect


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## rich p (29 Aug 2015)

It's made sceptics of us all. Who knows.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (29 Aug 2015)

Schippers has terrible shoulder and back acne. Most unfortunate. Might lead one to suspect steroids. If one was the suspicious type.


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## psmiffy (29 Aug 2015)

User said:


> traditionally sprinters seem to get better with age, for a 23 year old to improve that much isn't impossible but to me it is suspicious...



She was pretty fast as a heptathlete - I suspect that not training for the

100 metres hurdles.
High jump.
Shot put.
Long jump.
Javelin throw.
800 metres.
may have helped


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## smutchin (29 Aug 2015)

Bolt showed similar improvements around the same time he was rumoured to be training with Heredia.

Total coincidence, I'm sure.

Although, for what it's worth, Richard Moore in his new book seems reasonably convinced that Bolt is clean.


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## HF2300 (8 Sep 2015)

A bijou linkette might help:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/34190297

http://www.paularadcliffe.com/statement-september-2015/


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## Cathryn (8 Sep 2015)

I know I'm being naive but I can't believe it. To be honest, I won't believe it until there's proof. But I know how naive I'm being.


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## Citius (8 Sep 2015)

Cathryn said:


> I know I'm being naive but I can't believe it. To be honest, I won't believe it until there's proof. But I know how naive I'm being.


People used to say the same thing about Lance...


----------



## SWSteve (8 Sep 2015)

The Radcliffe thing is odd 'I never doped, but don't you dare look at my data, that's all mine'

Maybe athletics should have released data/made a commitment to actually do some investigating, not throw turds at each other and cry to the press


----------



## rich p (9 Sep 2015)

Citius said:


> People used to say the same thing about Lance...


They didn't actually, until there was a trickle, then a flood, of evidence. Circumstantial, anecdotal then hard. There are only unsubstantiated accusations against Radcliffe.


----------



## graham56 (9 Sep 2015)

I have all the time in the world for Lance Armstrong.
We have a man who rode in and won the TdF seven times when taking drugs. A fantastic achievement.
When I was on drugs I couldn't even find my bike let alone ride it. 

Only kidding folks!


----------



## Citius (9 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> They didn't actually, until there was a trickle, then a flood, of evidence. Circumstantial, anecdotal then hard. There are only unsubstantiated accusations against Radcliffe.



I was quoting another post. That's what I was referring to, which is why I quoted it. Loads of people thought like that.


----------



## rich p (9 Sep 2015)

Citius said:


> I was quoting another post. That's what I was referring to, which is why I quoted it. Loads of people thought like that.


Ah, okay. True.

There's still a huge difference between people 'naively' believing that Lance was innocent without 'proof' when there was actually welter of compelling circumstantial evidence around, and the lack of evidence that there is re Radcliffe.


----------



## Citius (9 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> There's still a huge difference between people 'naively' believing that Lance was innocent without 'proof' when there was actually welter of compelling circumstantial evidence around, and the lack of evidence that there is re Radcliffe.



Oh, I dunno. She took 3:22 out of her own marathon WR - that was twelve years ago, and nobody has been able to get to within three minutes of it since - not the Kenyans, not the Ethiopians, not even Radcliffe herself. That certainly stands out to me..


----------



## rich p (9 Sep 2015)

Citius said:


> Oh, I dunno. She took 3:22 out of her own marathon WR - that was twelve years ago, and nobody has been able to get to within three minutes of it since - not the Kenyans, not the Ethiopians, not even Radcliffe herself. That certainly stands out to me..


Evidence, dear boy, evidence; not 'she ran fast so must be doped'.
Armstrong had a dodgy TUE, Betsy Andreu's hearsay, Equipe's retrospective epo tests et al.
Chalk and cheese.


----------



## HF2300 (9 Sep 2015)

Cathryn said:


> I know I'm being naive but I can't believe it. To be honest, I won't believe it until there's proof. But I know how naive I'm being.



Stay naïve, you can enjoy the racing much more that way! I find it a bit depressing that, as soon as there's the merest whiff of a hint of suspicion, people start pointing fingers. People do improve. People do make radical changes - new coaches, new training methods, and so on.

Outstanding performances, or outstanding athletes, are by definition outliers on the curve. One-off performances are just that. She took 3:22 off her record means nothing - her performances jumped by 3:22 and kept getting better might. My feeling is the time to point fingers is when you start getting a consistent pattern of questionable results, or accumulating evidence suggesting unethical behaviour, or both; as has happened with the many cyclists and other athletes who have subsequently been caught.


----------



## Citius (9 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> Evidence, dear boy, evidence; not 'she ran fast so must be doped'.
> Armstrong had a dodgy TUE, Betsy Andreu's hearsay, Equipe's retrospective epo tests et al.
> Chalk and cheese.



I agree it's not evidence. But it is an anomaly. And I've never seen a credible explanation for it.


----------



## totallyfixed (9 Sep 2015)

The IAAF, much like the UCI does itself no favours in not doing a lot more to tackle doping and being more open about it. Should samples that have been kept from athletes in the past be tested? Yes of course, otherwise why keep them, the real travesty is those clean athletes who were denied a medal / place in the history books. I was appalled when watching the BBC coverage of The World Athletic Championships to see on more than one occasion the list of previous quickest times in various events included known dopers, they should have been wiped from the records.
We feel strongly about this because it also goes on in the amateur ranks where there is very little testing.


----------



## Crackle (9 Sep 2015)

Citius said:


> I agree it's not evidence. But it is an anomaly. And I've never seen a credible explanation for it.


I can't find the link now but if I do I'll post it. But there is research which says that the optimum marathon time for human physiology has not yet been reached. I think it was a Guardian article about Kenyan running and I may have posted it in this very thread but the point is, that an exceptional time is just that. Unless something else comes out I remain passive about Radcliffe, though as Paulb said, it always surprised me she could never produce it in the olympics.


----------



## smutchin (9 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> Evidence, dear boy, evidence; not 'she ran fast so must be doped'.



If I were an anti-doping investigator, I would certainly consider that 2003 performance a red flag and put her under much closer scrutiny - we know from cycling that some dopers have been caught this way.

But it seems from recent stories that the anti-doping authorities in athletics would rather believe in miracles.

I'm not making any accusations about Radcliffe though - I admit I don't follow athletics closely enough to be able to make an informed judgement about her WR marathon time. (Likewise Usain Bolt in the 100m, though the fact that he has consistently beaten known dopers does concern me.)


----------



## rich p (9 Sep 2015)

smutchin said:


> If I were an anti-doping investigator, I would certainly consider that 2003 performance a red flag and put her under much closer scrutiny - we know from cycling that some dopers have been caught this way.
> 
> But it seems from recent stories that the anti-doping authorities in athletics would rather believe in miracles.
> 
> I'm not making any accusations about Radcliffe though - I admit I don't follow athletics closely enough to be able to make an informed judgement about her WR marathon time. (Likewise Usain Bolt in the 100m, though the fact that he has consistently beaten known dopers does concern me.)


I can see why people are suspicious of Radcliffe but I'm convinced that she was clean. She did pretty well up to 10km on the track. gold at the European Cup and Champs. She won the World X Country champs twice etc etc. She was no failure.
She found that she was being outkicked by Kenyans on the track and went to live and train harder at Font Romeu and Colorado. Lost weight and found that marathons were her ideal distance much like Wiggins did.
Similar to Wiggins too, she was very outspoken about doping and some particular dopers. It is one of the most compelling things about her and Brad - it would be a weird strategy to buck the omerta if you were doping. Surely you'd keep a low profile rather than make yourself such a hostage to fortune.


----------



## Citius (9 Sep 2015)

People were convinced Lance was clean..


----------



## smutchin (9 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> Similar to Wiggins too, she was very outspoken about doping and some particular dopers. It is one of the most compelling things about her and Brad - it would be a weird strategy to buck the omerta if you were doping. Surely you'd keep a low profile rather than make yourself such a hostage to fortune.



I didn't know that but you're right, it is a point in her favour. The strongly vocal anti-doping stance is one of the reasons I've always had faith in Wiggins.


----------



## rich p (9 Sep 2015)

smutchin said:


> I didn't know that but you're right, it is a point in her favour. The strongly vocal anti-doping stance is one of the reasons I've always had faith in Wiggins.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/in_depth/2001/world_athletics/1483621.stm

"We just thought that the girls in the race shouldn't have to make the protest," said Radcliffe, who has worn a red ribbon on her vest during races to symbolise her support for compulsory blood-testing of athletes.


----------



## Citius (10 Sep 2015)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/34204775

The lady doth protest too much, methinks...


----------



## Legs (10 Sep 2015)

It does seem strange to be so opposed to exposing her 'private' data. If you've got nothing to hide....?


----------



## smutchin (10 Sep 2015)

Legs said:


> It does seem strange to be so opposed to exposing her 'private' data.



How opposed are you to exposing your private bank account details? If you don't agree to share them, I'll take that as proof that you're involved in money laundering and tax fraud.


----------



## Citius (10 Sep 2015)

smutchin said:


> How opposed are you to exposing your private bank account details? If you don't agree to share them, I'll take that as proof that you're involved in money laundering and tax fraud.



If I was actually accused of fraud, I would be happy to share them (to the appropriate authorities).


----------



## Captain Slackbladder (10 Sep 2015)

Its the head in the sand attitude from the likes of Coe, Cram and plenty of others I just dont like when Its blatantly obvious that there's huge problem in the sport.....plucky Brits dont dope attitude is there for all to see.

Must admit I'm not a huge fan of Radcliffe, any athlete that takes thousands in lottery funding for years and all the other benefits of being British such as lucrative sponsorship deals etc. The very same then chuffs off the Monaco to avoid tax as soon as the big time hits...


----------



## Legs (10 Sep 2015)

Citius said:


> If I was actually accused of fraud, I would be happy to share them (to the appropriate authorities).


Precisely.


----------



## martint235 (10 Sep 2015)

I found her attitude of "I know I raced clean, if you have doubts then that's your problem not mine" very disappointing. To me, it also awakens the cynic that says "Well if you're not willing to come out and a. defend yourself publicly or b. prove that you were clean then I'll just treat you as guilty". I can see athletics now descending into the mire that cycling is only just beginning to emerge from.


----------



## Citius (10 Sep 2015)

Whoever is advising her on her PR needs shooting*.


(* = figure of speech, obviously)


----------



## smutchin (10 Sep 2015)

Citius said:


> If I was actually accused of fraud, I would be happy to share them (to the appropriate authorities).



Indeed. But even if you've got 'nothing to hide', you wouldn't just share them with anyone... I dunno, I may have misread the tone of @Legs' post. Never mind, it's not important.


----------



## Citius (10 Sep 2015)

Obviously not with anyone. When Froome shared his power data, it didn't get emailed to me. It got sent to people who knew how to interpret it


----------



## HF2300 (10 Sep 2015)

Captain Slackbladder said:


> Its the head in the sand attitude from the likes of Coe, Cram and plenty of others I just dont like when Its blatantly obvious that there's huge problem in the sport.....plucky Brits dont dope attitude is there for all to see.
> 
> Must admit I'm not a huge fan of Radcliffe, any athlete that takes thousands in lottery funding for years and all the other benefits of being British such as lucrative sponsorship deals etc. The very same then chuffs off the Monaco to avoid tax as soon as the big time hits...



Coe's been variable in his message, but Cram's been quite vocal in the past.

I suspect those athletes who were around in the pre-Lottery era, those who don't qualify for funding now and the many who've given up their sport due to lack of finance might question the idea that lucrative sponsorship deals are a benefit of simply being British.


----------



## rich p (10 Sep 2015)

Citius said:


> Obviously not with anyone. When Froome shared his power data, it didn't get emailed to me. It got sent to people who knew how to interpret it


You mean the media and any Tom, Dick and Harry who wants to look at the Sky site?
http://www.teamsky.com/teamsky/home/article/59618#9ZXBw4dvJEhUpiL0.97


----------



## Citius (10 Sep 2015)

Yeah, but the point is that none of that contained the kind of personal or sensitive info that might be contained in a bank account, for instance - which was the comparison made earlier.


----------



## rich p (10 Sep 2015)

Citius said:


> Yeah, but the point is that none of that contained the kind of personal or sensitive info that might be contained in a bank account, for instance - which was the comparison made earlier.


Have it your own way.


----------



## Andrew_P (10 Sep 2015)

The interview on BBC news this morning was very Lancesque cold concentration stare and all that. I am afraid I have a view that all professional sports people stretch the goal post and many I suspect cross the line. Where there is Brass there is muck.


----------



## Citius (10 Sep 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/sep/10/iaaf-select-committe-paula-radcliffe-data


----------



## Dogtrousers (10 Sep 2015)

Andrew_P said:


> The interview on BBC news this morning was very Lancesque cold concentration stare and all that. I am afraid I have a view that all professional sports people stretch the goal post and many I suspect cross the line. Where there is Brass there is muck.


You mean they stretch the goalpost so far that it crosses the line between muck and brass?


I know what you mean, I just found the combination of metaphors amusing.


----------



## HF2300 (11 Sep 2015)

Citius said:


> People were convinced Lance was clean..



Yes, but that was Liggett, so it doesn't count.


----------



## Citius (11 Sep 2015)

I don't think it was just Phil, to be fair...


----------



## Captain Slackbladder (11 Sep 2015)

Citius said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/sep/10/iaaf-select-committe-paula-radcliffe-data


 
Wonder if Sebs line would be any different if it were a Russian or African athete implicated, just saying?


----------



## Bobby Mhor (11 Sep 2015)

Captain Slackbladder said:


> Wonder if Sebs line would be any different if it were a Russian or African athete implicated, just saying?


Coe is a Nike Ambassador
Justin Gattlin is a Nike sponsored athlete...

mmm sticky wicket..


----------



## uclown2002 (11 Sep 2015)

A good read:- http://sportsscientists.com/2015/09/paula-radcliffe-off-scores-and-transparency/


----------



## totallyfixed (11 Sep 2015)

Bobby Mhor said:


> Coe is a Nike Ambassador
> Justin Gattlin is a Nike sponsored athlete...
> 
> mmm sticky wicket..


Yes, and he is being paid £90,000 per annum to be Nike's ambassador. No conflict of interest there then. Quite incredible.


----------



## themosquitoking (11 Sep 2015)

totallyfixed said:


> Yes, and he is being paid £90,000 per annum to be Nike's ambassador. No conflict of interest there then. Quite incredible.


But I've heard him say it makes no difference to his job or judgement.


----------



## Ganymede (11 Sep 2015)

themosquitoking said:


> But I've heard him say it makes no difference to his job or judgement.


Oh that's all right then...


----------



## oldroadman (14 Sep 2015)

Now stop it, you're all being very cynical and naughty about a Lord. Poor old chap has to make a living somehow.


----------



## The Couch (15 Sep 2015)

smutchin said:


> ... (Likewise Usain Bolt in the 100m, though the fact that he has consistently beaten known dopers does concern me.)


You mean, besides the fact that he is Jamaican
(i.e. part of the Jamaican Federation and part of a country which has been dominating 100m/200m sprinting world-wide for a decade now and has been starting to grow into other disciplines as well....oh, and it's a country with less than 3 million people)
and that he has set a best time - not only beating dopers - but absolutely destroying their best time(s)


----------



## smutchin (15 Sep 2015)

The Couch said:


> You mean, besides the fact that he is Jamaican



I'm wary of saying things like that because there's a danger of coming across as a bit jingoistic but... yes, that too.

Would be interesting to read David Walsh's book - he seems convinced Bolt is clean and that there is no East German-style systemic Jamaican doping program.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (15 Sep 2015)

Quote from an article I read recently

''Little faith has been expressed in the country’s drug testing programme: some testers consider that they are treated akin to enemies of the state. Renee Anne Shirley, the former director of the Jamaica Anti-Doping Commission, criticised the Commission. “I’ve been called a Judas, a traitor, that my passport should be taken away,” she says. One of the most prominent Jamaican testers, Dr Paul Wright, says he has received death threats and has also been called a pervert by male athletes because of his policy of insisting they urinate in front of him to minimise the possibility of cheating.''

The article HERE
(basically a book promo)


----------



## Crackle (15 Sep 2015)

I'm becoming more wary of assuming now and, if I'm honest a little tired of it. Wait a while and the rumours, anecdotes and witnesses begin to appear long before any proof does. Where only speculation circulates, I tend to treat it lightly. Bolt is a case in point. I've seen nothing besides speculation by association but given how many sprinters of his speed have been subsequently caught cheating, it's difficult not to assume the worst. At the moment, I'd still give him the benefit of the doubt which may be harsh if he turns out to be the greatest sprinter we've ever seen and naive if he gets caught cheating.


----------



## Ganymede (15 Sep 2015)

The thing with Bolt is that he does have ludicrously long legs, which is a fact I cling to. (I don't actually cling to the legs.)


----------



## HF2300 (16 Sep 2015)

Ah, that's why he's not been so quick recently.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (16 Sep 2015)

The thing about any athlete/sportsperson who takes drugs must get them from somewhere and therein lies the weakness, any link in the chain can grass you up...


----------



## Captain Slackbladder (18 Sep 2015)

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/athletics/34286427

Quelle suprise...


----------



## Hont (21 Sep 2015)

Ganymede said:


> The thing with Bolt is that he does have ludicrously long legs, which is a fact I cling to. (I don't actually cling to the legs.)


It's difficult to _know _with Bolt. Is he a complete freak or a doper? The following are all generally accepted facts, from which you can probably guess what conclusion I've drawn.

- His record is over two tenths faster for the 100m than the time Ben Johnson ran at Seoul, when there was no out of competition drug-testing.
- Of the top 8 times by runners for the 100m, 5 of them are Jamaican.
- Of these 8, 3 have served doping bans, including 2 out of 3 Americans
- Jamaica has a population of less than 3m people.
- Wind resistance increases exponentially with speed, so the larger the frontal area the harder it is to run faster.
- Nobody wears skin suits in sprinting.
- THG was undetectable until Trevor Graham sent a syringe to USADA.
- The rate of progression of the lowering of the 100m world record is accelerating...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's...ia/File:World_record_progression_100m_men.svg

It would be really great if he was simply a freak but, as a cycling fan, long experience has taught me a lot of distrust. And it would suggest an awful lot of athletic freaks hailing from one small island in the Caribbean.


----------



## HF2300 (21 Sep 2015)

Hont said:


> - Wind resistance increases exponentially with speed, so the larger the frontal area the harder it is to run faster..



Nitpick, but it's a square law, not an exponential


----------



## Citius (21 Sep 2015)

Hont said:


> It would be really great if he was simply a freak but, as a cycling fan, long experience has taught me a lot of distrust. And it would suggest an awful lot of athletic freaks hailing from one small island in the Caribbean.


Ganja...


----------



## oldroadman (22 Sep 2015)

Hont said:


> It's difficult to _know _with Bolt. Is he a complete freak or a doper? The following are all generally accepted facts, from which you can probably guess what conclusion I've drawn.
> 
> - His record is over two tenths faster for the 100m than the time Ben Johnson ran at Seoul, when there was no out of competition drug-testing.
> - Of the top 8 times by runners for the 100m, 5 of them are Jamaican.
> ...



Which may be entirely possible if you consider history. Slaves stolen from Africa to work on plantations. Only the strongest and fittest survive. Selective breeding by slave owners (vile but it did happen). Result a strong and fit workforce who could produce more work over longer periods. fast forward and the genetics may suggest that within the 3 million are plenty who still have the trends, and may have excellent athletic ability. A culture of excellence and success has been created, just as GB has done.. It may be just possible to account for considerable success from this peer pressure and expectation alone. 
This comment is simply to try and balance prejudice and it may well be that there is endemic misuse of substances going on. Until it's proved, it is not happening. Who said that now?


----------



## smutchin (22 Sep 2015)

oldroadman said:


> Slaves stolen from Africa to work on plantations. Only the strongest and fittest survive.



I thought that myth had been debunked a long time ago.


----------



## Crackle (22 Sep 2015)

Good article on doping in Rugby Union.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34314851


----------



## HF2300 (23 Sep 2015)

Captain Slackbladder said:


> http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/athletics/34286427
> 
> Quelle suprise...



Another perspective on this from Saturday's Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/sep/18/alberto-salazar-uk-athletics-oregon-project


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (11 Oct 2015)

More rugby doping: Pierre Ballester being sued by Philippe Sella as a result of allegations made in his book that Sella and others in the French national team took amphetamines in the 80s 
http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/dopag...ion-par-philippe-sella_sto4941302/story.shtml


----------



## Crackle (13 Oct 2015)

Fascinating breakdown of worldwide testing in sport.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/33686397

Ukraine managed two tests, one of which was adverse. Jamaica managed 374 tests, all clean, naturally.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Oct 2015)

Crackle said:


> Fascinating breakdown of worldwide testing in sport.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/33686397
> 
> Ukraine managed two tests, one of which was adverse. Jamaica managed 374 tests, all clean, naturally.


Are the equestrian tests on the horse or rider?


----------



## Crackle (13 Oct 2015)

Marmion said:


> Are the equestrian tests on the horse or rider?


I did wonder that.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Oct 2015)

Crackle said:


> I did wonder that.


----------



## themosquitoking (13 Oct 2015)

Marmion said:


>


I struggle sometimes getting a spliff in my mouth with opposable thumbs heck knows how I'd manage with hooves.


----------



## Crackle (13 Oct 2015)

Marmion said:


>


You actually drew that didn't you.


----------



## rich p (13 Oct 2015)

Doesn't a horse use horse?


----------



## HF2300 (20 Oct 2015)

rich p said:


> Doesn't a horse use horse?



So bush is used by... bushes?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Oct 2015)

rich p said:


> Doesn't a horse use horse?





HF2300 said:


> So bush is used by... bushes?



And skunk is used by black female cats who have walked under a man up a ladder using white paint and who lives next door to Pepe le Pew


----------



## HF2300 (21 Oct 2015)

I thought cats used Qat.

Sorry, I'm getting doping in other sports confused with doping in other species.


----------



## dragon72 (22 Oct 2015)

Horses use horse tranquillisers. But they tend not to enhance performance.


----------



## albion (7 Nov 2015)

Seems Wada produce a reporton athletics this Monday.

Will it blame Russia mainly with everywhere else sweetness and light?


----------



## SWSteve (7 Nov 2015)

albion said:


> Seems Wada produce a reporton athletics this Monday.
> 
> Will it blame Russia mainly with everywhere else sweetness and light?



If Russian athletes trained with Jamaican athletes would they also be innocent?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Nov 2015)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> If Russian athletes trained with Jamaican athletes would they also be innocent?


Only if they "sponsored" Seb Coe to be an ambassador


----------



## HF2300 (8 Nov 2015)

Seb all over TV today saying he knew nothing about Diack's corruption until this week; so why didn't he speak out at the beginning of the week, instead of staying silent until forced to say something?

And am I wrong in remembering allegations against Diack and his son as far back as April 2014, albeit about other forms of corruption? How did Coe manage not to hear about this until this week, when it was in all the papers for the last 18 months?

Daffodil.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (8 Nov 2015)

HF2300 said:


> Seb all over TV today saying he knew nothing about Diack's corruption until this week; so why didn't he speak out at the beginning of the week, instead of staying silent until forced to say something?
> 
> And am I wrong in remembering allegations against Diack and his son as far back as April 2014, albeit about other forms of corruption? How did Coe manage not to hear about this until this week, when it was in all the papers for the last 18 months?
> 
> Daffodil.


Smokescreen
to hide all the recent debate of drug allegations?

Until Coe cuts his ties with Nike..
he gets no credence...
Isn't there a WADA report due out?


----------



## HF2300 (8 Nov 2015)

Tomorrow.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (8 Nov 2015)

HF2300 said:


> Tomorrow.


And that's why he's softening up the public and the athletics world while Richard McLaren (co-author) is talking the report up.


----------



## Bollo (8 Nov 2015)

This has just appeared in the Grauniad.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/08/russia-expulsion-doping-report-iaaf

The headline is really just speculation if you read the article, but it does lay out some detail. Personally I think they'll bottle it.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Nov 2015)

I wonder how Lord Coe of JustDoIt will manage to gloss over the extent to which he castigated the media when the story first broke, and now stands up for the scientists who he rubbished?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (8 Nov 2015)

Marmion said:


> I wonder how Lord Coe of JustDoIt will manage to gloss over the extent to which he castigated the media when the story first broke, and now stands up for the scientists who he rubbished?


Then again, I wonder whether the media will remember Coe's attack on them and the damage it was doing to athletic's reputation - they'll have enough of an ongoing story with the report. It was an incredibly inept reaction to doping problems at the time and a good journalist could roast him but they'll all be following the latest story, which Coe has got behind.


----------



## oldroadman (9 Nov 2015)

Perhaps Lord C should have a little trip to Aigle and chat to plain Mr C, find out how another sport are tackling their problems. Roger Black on TV today, hilarious, claiming athletics do more than any other sport to combat doping. They may do more tests, then they have lots of competitors, so the percentage might be lower, and some interesting governing bodies. Plus all kinds of sponsor and financial interests. I'm all in favour of WADA doing the lot, NGBs not involved, results published, sanctions by independent panels with no reason to cover up the cheats, in all sport.


----------



## Crackle (9 Nov 2015)

Well, one report out, another coming, looks like the gravy boat sailed leaving Coe at the dock with the luggage.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/09/wada-iaaf-russia-dick-pound-banned


----------



## Crackle (9 Nov 2015)

And this piece of news seems entirely credible


----------



## Bollo (9 Nov 2015)

Coe on 5 Live now. It's not the most incisive interview I've ever heard but he was a long way from convincing about not knowing anything about malpractice in the IAAF, especially as he's been balls-deep in the organisation for 8 years.


----------



## mr messy (9 Nov 2015)

The Alistair Carmichael defence for Coe...i haven't seen any corruption with my own eyes, only heard about it through third parties, so i'm as honest as the day is long


----------



## SWSteve (9 Nov 2015)

with Coe's statements and behaviour so far, maybe some conversations featuring him being party to this information will arrive


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Nov 2015)

Lessons that athletics can learn from cycling; including the need for Coe to leave.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2015...learn-from-cycling_388899#JMYyzZHyeBjEKb8I.99


----------



## HF2300 (9 Nov 2015)

Marmion said:


> Lessons that athletics can learn from cycling; including the need for Coe to leave.
> http://velonews.competitor.com/2015...learn-from-cycling_388899#JMYyzZHyeBjEKb8I.99



Some good points.

Poor old Seb, having aspersions cast over his wonderful 2012 Olympics.



HF2300 said:


> How did Coe manage not to hear about this until this week, when it was in all the papers for the last 18 months?



Of course it'll be the sand in his ears from spending so long burying his head. He's 'bloody angry' though, so that makes it alright.


----------



## Crackle (9 Nov 2015)

This is going to be a story that keeps on giving








It is hard to see how he can remain as President as all around him are implicated.


----------



## mr messy (10 Nov 2015)

Crackle said:


> This is going to be a story that keeps on giving
> 
> View attachment 109543
> 
> ...



Spoken like a true politician...

Oops sorry, failed politician....


----------



## Crackle (10 Nov 2015)

Here by the way is the Wada report. I've only skimmed the summary and found it absolutely damning and WADA have still to investigate the blood doping allegations, nor have they included the evidence turned over to Interpol

https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/wada_independent_commission_report_1_en.pdf

I admit to a certain schadenfreude here. Right now I am enjoying seeing athletics getting hammered, mainly because we've all suspected/known for some time just how rife doping is and this is making cycling look clean, even in it's worst years. 

Overall though I'm also hoping that with this and the FIFA fiasco there might actually be some governance changes in world sport and athletes might finally stop bleating about whereabouts and testing (I'm not thinking of you tennis, honest).


----------



## Bobby Mhor (10 Nov 2015)

The IOC are calling for the IAAF to take action against Russian athletes.. HERE
The IOC, mind you..


----------



## HF2300 (11 Nov 2015)

Bobby Mhor said:


> The IOC are calling for the IAAF to take action against Russian athletes.. HERE
> The IOC, mind you..



The panic starts. Everyone can see their particular gravy train hitting the buffers...


----------



## Crackle (11 Nov 2015)

Wenger speaks out about doping in football

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/10/arsene-wenger-football-doping-arsenal

One wonders whether he would say this without the current climate and I see Yvonne Murray's husband wants to push for an upgrade of her medal. This is beginning to feel like a house of cards.


----------



## SWSteve (11 Nov 2015)

Photos show Russia's athletes wear Nike kit. Maybe this is why Coe is saying they 'could' be banned, not 'should' be banned.


----------



## 400bhp (11 Nov 2015)

Crackle said:


> This is beginning to feel like a house of cards.



Good - about time. Modern day revolution beckons.


----------



## HF2300 (12 Nov 2015)

Crackle said:


> This is beginning to feel like a house of cards.



Not a surprise though. Really any endurance or strength sport is prey to the common doping methods; Fuentes and others have given us a pretty good idea that there's significant doping in most major sports; most sports' governing bodies are unregulated, self perpetuating and self interested; many have had rumours of at least feathering the nests of those involved, if not outright corruption; many have shown every sign of appearing to tackle doping while really burying their heads in the sand.

Meanwhile, Putin wants to carry out his own cover-up.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (12 Nov 2015)

Crackle said:


> Wenger speaks out about doping in football
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/10/arsene-wenger-football-doping-arsenal
> 
> One wonders whether he would say this without the current climate and I see Yvonne Murray's husband wants to push for an upgrade of her medal. This is beginning to feel like a house of cards.



There was talk of footballers being involved with Fuentes, who originally was a gynecologist (obvious joke)
Old BBC article HERE

American sport...
Baseball has implemented more testing after the widespread use of PEDs etc
but the NFL? ..Deadspin article HERE
PGA golfers? John Daly's take HERE

Predictable...

As for the present situation in Athletics?
Back to bad old days of 70s, 80s, 90s..
Blame the Eastern Bloc countries...
Now its... yeah, its those bad Russkis
Classic deflection tactics...


----------



## themosquitoking (12 Nov 2015)

Funny how on every turn Nike is involved in this. The training camp in Oregon run by Salazar, sponsoring the Russian team kit, Justin Gatlin being sponsored and them bunging Coe more per year than most of us earn in ten years. I'm sure they know nothing about it though.


----------



## HF2300 (12 Nov 2015)

Just do ... drugs


----------



## User169 (13 Nov 2015)

themosquitoking said:


> Funny how on every turn Nike is involved in this. The training camp in Oregon run by Salazar, sponsoring the Russian team kit, Justin Gatlin being sponsored and them bunging Coe more per year than most of us earn in ten years. I'm sure they know nothing about it though.



Not entirely sure of the provenance - got it from twitter - but this is supposedly Coe's parking spot a Nike HQ.


----------



## Crackle (13 Nov 2015)

What I didn't realize, is that Coe is not paid a salary as President of the IAAF, that is surely not right. The IAAF also pay half of WADA's budget, so WADA is making itself a hostage to fortune too. So many things need to change.


----------



## themosquitoking (13 Nov 2015)

I heard Russias new solution to the scandle this morning, they want to get rid of WADA and run their own anti-doping agency. 
I can't see a problem with that at all, can anyone else?


----------



## Bobby Mhor (13 Nov 2015)

Deadspin's latest take on it all HERE

Worth looking at the Nike coach tries to buy a race link near the bottom and who pops up but Farah's mate


----------



## Crackle (13 Nov 2015)

Bobby Mhor said:


> Deadspin's latest take on it all HERE
> 
> Worth looking at the Nike coach tries to buy a race link near the bottom and who pops up but Farah's mate


I like this bit on Coe.
_
This is the mahatma who says he is going to lead the IAAF out of darkness into the light. It’s almost as if, with Sepp Blatter leaving FIFA, Coe decided to seize the mantle of most comically inept international sports leader._


----------



## Bobby Mhor (13 Nov 2015)

Crackle said:


> I like this bit on Coe.
> _
> This is the mahatma who says he is going to lead the IAAF out of darkness into the light. It’s almost as if, with Sepp Blatter leaving FIFA, Coe decided to seize the mantle of most comically inept international sports leader._


They tend not to mince words..
Imagine the British press trying this?


----------



## Crackle (13 Nov 2015)

Bobby Mhor said:


> They tend not to mince words..
> Imagine the British press trying this?


I dunno. The Guardian is making a pretty good fist of it.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/nov/13/sebastian-coe-british-challenge-russia-doping

_When Coe was William Hague’s bagman back in the late 1990s one Tory MP described Coe as “nice but dim”, baffled by his energetically blunt insistence on being everywhere and doing everything without ever seeming to, you know, really get anything done._

_The idea that Coe is the ideal man to gouge out the poison, to go on and locate and destroy corruption elsewhere, still falls at the classic Catch-22 of all such investigations. Coe has been at the IAAF though what now look like eight years of bribes and cover-ups. It is the classic phone-hacking newspaper editor’s conundrum. Highly competent reformers don’t end up in senior management positions in corrupted organisations. Either you know it’s going on and are therefore complicit. Or you don’t and are unfit to fix it. There is no realistic middle ground here._

_Hilariously, in 2007 Coe even threatened to sue a TV documentary over suggestions he stood to profit personally from London 2012. And yet when Sebastian Coe Ltd, AKA the Complete Leisure Group was sold to Chime, a sports PR agency that had made millions from contracts related to the Olympic Games, Chime noted that he was “one of the most high profile figures in world sport” and said his involvement would help them become one of “the top three sports and entertainments businesses int he world”. Coe made millions on the deal and became a chairman of the company. Which is, of course, all fine. Or at least, to be expected._

All pretty damning. he needs to go.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (13 Nov 2015)

Crackle said:


> I dunno. The Guardian is making a pretty good fist of it.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/nov/13/sebastian-coe-british-challenge-russia-doping
> 
> ...


Yep..
I never saw this..
but Nike need him in place..

I still can't see his 'strings'...


----------



## Bobby Mhor (13 Nov 2015)

Russians provisionally suspended HERE


----------



## HF2300 (15 Nov 2015)

themosquitoking said:


> I heard Russia ... want to get rid of WADA and run their own anti-doping agency. I can't see a problem with that at all, can anyone else?



My, how we laughed.



Bobby Mhor said:


> Russians provisionally suspended HERE



My, how we laughed.

22:1. Wonder who the one was?


----------



## Bobby Mhor (15 Nov 2015)

A dig at others who gained UK Athletics funding or just in general?

I note on the list there are some who have earned a pretty penny from track and TV advertising....


----------



## HF2300 (15 Nov 2015)

Just cheesed off with her funding being cut on top of a difficult year with her ankle injury, I suspect. She's pulled that tweet now, it seems.


----------



## 400bhp (15 Nov 2015)

Bobby Mhor said:


> View attachment 110032
> 
> A dig at others who gained UK Athletics funding or just in general?
> 
> I note on the list there are some who have earned a pretty penny from track and TV advertising....



Hmmm, reading between the lines she's commenting on some British athletes she strongly suspects of cheating.


----------



## albion (15 Nov 2015)

Reads like 'Wot, no sick pay!' .

Stupid girl.


----------



## HF2300 (15 Nov 2015)

That's a bit harsh, isn't it?


----------



## oldroadman (16 Nov 2015)

Only one side of the matter, perhaps she had targets on which funding depended, didn't respond to treatment for an injury, who knows? In the end funding is public money, national bodies are accountable, and results count. Decisions can be tough but get made. Recall Mr Brailsford's mantra "compassionate ruthlessness". Which is how GB CT operates, and who is to say they are wrong?


----------



## Bobby Mhor (16 Nov 2015)

oldroadman said:


> Only one side of the matter, perhaps she had targets on which funding depended, didn't respond to treatment for an injury, who knows? In the end funding is public money, national bodies are accountable, and results count. Decisions can be tough but get made. Recall Mr Brailsford's mantra "compassionate ruthlessness". Which is how GB CT operates, and who is to say they are wrong?


Agreed, but why do they keep throwing money at the Ennis girl and Mo Farah who obviously aren't doing adverts etc for nothing..
surely their money could be spent with other more deserving athletes?


----------



## oldroadman (16 Nov 2015)

Bobby Mhor said:


> Agreed, but why do they keep throwing money at the Ennis girl and Mo Farah who obviously aren't doing adverts etc for nothing..
> surely their money could be spent with other more deserving athletes?


How does anyone outside UK Athletics know if these people are actually being paid from public money? It could be that their commercial earnings are such that they would only get paid centrally for events they have committed to represent GB. I think I read somewhere that funding diminishes on a sliding scale according to declared earnings. certainly any of the competitors in the track and field "Diamond League" and other big events around the world are not there without a good financial contract.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (16 Nov 2015)

oldroadman said:


> How does anyone outside UK Athletics know if these people are actually being paid from public money? It could be that their commercial earnings are such that they would only get paid centrally for events they have committed to represent GB. I think I read somewhere that funding diminishes on a sliding scale according to declared earnings. certainly any of the competitors in the track and field "Diamond League" and other big events around the world are not there without a good financial contract.


I'm with your point..
There is masses of moolah to be made in athletics but I'm sure there has to be some point to say...no.
an old workmate had been the Scottish champ in his discipline for a long spell and found he could not compete with certain athletes due to payments (and I'm going well back)but once he qualified for IAAF events, he could travel world wide on the expenses paid to him..sadly he couldn't get time off work..


----------



## rich p (19 Nov 2015)

First place DQed and the runner up is already banned!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/34873287


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Nov 2015)

rich p said:


> First place DQed and the runner up is already banned!
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/34873287


Quite handy being the VP of the organisation tasked with investigating you.


----------



## rich p (20 Nov 2015)

Marmion said:


> Quite handy being the VP of the organisation tasked with investigating you.


I know, you couldn't make it up!


----------



## lyn1 (20 Nov 2015)

oldroadman said:


> How does anyone outside UK Athletics know if these people are actually being paid from public money? It could be that their commercial earnings are such that they would only get paid centrally for events they have committed to represent GB. *I think I read somewhere that funding diminishes on a sliding scale according to declared earnings.* certainly any of the competitors in the track and field "Diamond League" and other big events around the world are not there without a good financial contract.



Yes that's correct. I doubt any of the top performers in mainstream professional sports get anything. Once their income plus performance award combined totals £65k they lose funding on a £ for £ basis.


----------



## Crackle (24 Nov 2015)

Welsh Rugby has 'off the scale steroid abuse' at grassroots level

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-34902105


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Nov 2015)

Crackle said:


> Welsh Rugby has 'off the scale steroid abuse' at grassroots level
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-34902105


"But WRU chief Martyn Phillips is not "overly concerned" because the number tested is proportionately higher than in other rugby unions and sports"

How the feck do these tools manage to get into positions of power?


----------



## Crackle (24 Nov 2015)

Marmion said:


> "But WRU chief Martyn Phillips is not "overly concerned" because the number tested is proportionately higher than in other rugby unions and sports"
> 
> How the feck do these tools manage to get into positions of power?


Yep, I noted that sentence with some incredulity.

In more news, Tyson Fury reckons that boxing has a big problem with drugs too. Seems like everyone wants to speak on this issue now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/34906044


----------



## oldroadman (24 Nov 2015)

A lot of NGBs must be a funny sight at their meetings. Difficult to talk with your head in the sand, eyes closed, fingers in ears, shouting nah, nah, nah, not us. And getting a mouth full of sand as a bonus.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (24 Nov 2015)

oh oh oh.. Lord Sepp Coe
HERE
a bit off topic but as we had been discussing him...
Edit to add..
HERE


----------



## mr messy (24 Nov 2015)

Bobby Mhor said:


> oh oh oh.. Lord Sepp Coe
> HERE
> a bit off topic but as we had been discussing him...


Looks like someone has 'accidently' Blattered something out...


----------



## oldroadman (25 Nov 2015)

Just a thought - how much is the IAAF president's salary? It has to be worth a minimum of €250-300k to be anywhere near a comparison with other international federations. In which case if that is close to the amount, and the new president allegedly made a shed load of cash from other business ventures, then why continue to take the $100k from Nike, when looking at what's public, shows a huge problem of a clash of interests when making decisions.


----------



## uclown2002 (25 Nov 2015)

oldroadman said:


> Just a thought - *how much is the IAAF president's salary? *It has to be worth a minimum of €250-300k to be anywhere near a comparison with other international federations. In which case if that is close to the amount, and the new president allegedly made a shed load of cash from other business ventures, then why continue to take the $100k from Nike, when looking at what's public, shows a huge problem of a clash of interests when making decisions.


£0


----------



## oldroadman (25 Nov 2015)

So, president of IAAF stays for years, receives no salary. They have to live on something. But you can't take money from anywhere that compromises neutrality. Track and field is awash with money, athletes can earn lots. Officials and administrators paid nothing? Something wrong. Which leaves a question, when the old fellow Diack was president for so long, if IAAF was paying nothing, who WAS paying him, because someone must have been. The whole edifice is very malodourous


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (25 Nov 2015)

oldroadman said:


> So, president of IAAF stays for years, receives no salary. They have to live on something. But you can't take money from anywhere that compromises neutrality. Track and field is awash with money, athletes can earn lots. Officials and administrators paid nothing? Something wrong. Which leaves a question, when the old fellow Diack was president for so long, if IAAF was paying nothing, who WAS paying him, because someone must have been. The whole edifice is very malodourous


There's probably something about "not biting the hand that feeds you" which would be fitting in these circumstances.


----------



## 400bhp (25 Nov 2015)

gonna be a bigger hit in January apparently - place your bets now:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/34918165

Reckon Coe is implicated.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (25 Nov 2015)

400bhp said:


> gonna be a bigger hit in January apparently - place your bets now:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/34918165
> 
> Reckon Coe is implicated.


Good to see bad news is not being buried...
Athletics now..
what branch of sport next?

Will they wheel out the outspoken athletes who give it..
Naughty, naughty and probably glad they didn't get caught...allegedly


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (26 Nov 2015)

Coe renouncing his link with Nike looks a litte like someone dumping a smoking gun to me. Sepp and co. is playing a blinder.


----------



## Crackle (26 Nov 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Coe renouncing his link with Nike looks a litte like someone dumping a smoking gun to me. Sepp and co. is playing a blinder.


Did he renounce it or did it get too hot for NIke. I'm beginning to suspect Coe is a bit dim.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (26 Nov 2015)

Crackle said:


> Did he renounce it or did it get too hot for NIke. I'm beginning to suspect Coe is a bit dim.


After Hein and Pat, Sepp and Jack, you'd think he'd have learned something by now. But he's working from the book of the discredited and is so far behind the game that it's hard to imagine him ever having won a race.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (26 Nov 2015)

Another interesting side article...
*HERE*


----------



## HF2300 (29 Nov 2015)

Meanwhile, the IAAF backs Radcliffe:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/27/paula-radcliffe--blood-samples-doping-allegations-iaaf


----------



## Bobby Mhor (30 Nov 2015)

HF2300 said:


> Meanwhile, the IAAF backs Radcliffe:
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/27/paula-radcliffe--blood-samples-doping-allegations-iaaf


The IAAF, such a fine upstanding organisation to give clearance....


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Nov 2015)

HF2300 said:


> Meanwhile, the IAAF backs Radcliffe:


She's a self-obsessed nutter:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...-allegations-turned-her-life-upside-down.html

Completely and utterly.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (30 Nov 2015)

Marmion said:


> She's a self-obsessed nutter:
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...-allegations-turned-her-life-upside-down.html
> 
> Completely and utterly.


Full of piss
and NIKE clad in one of the photos..

This statement stood out for me from the above story.

'She also expressed disappointment that other professional athletes did not speak out on her behalf.'


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Nov 2015)

Bobby Mhor said:


> 'She also expressed disappointment that other professional athletes did not speak out on her behalf.'



To be honest, I am aghast that none of those caught up in the killings in Paris seem to have given a thought to poor Paula and her reputation. Utterly contemptible behaviour on their part.


----------



## oldroadman (2 Dec 2015)

Bobby Mhor said:


> Full of piss
> and NIKE clad in one of the photos..
> 
> This statement stood out for me from the above story.
> ...


Omerta. Not just in one sport. It can work against people, and you get the feeling that the lady may not be near the podium in a popularity contest amongst other competitors, perhaps?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (2 Dec 2015)

Coe's currently facing the Culture, Media and Sport select committee. Live coverage here - http://www.theguardian.com/sport/li...g-from-mps-over-athletics-doping-scandal-live


----------



## Bobby Mhor (2 Dec 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Coe's currently facing the Culture, Media and Sport select committee. Live coverage here - http://www.theguardian.com/sport/li...g-from-mps-over-athletics-doping-scandal-live


Thanks..
I forgot about it..
I just popped a couple of ahem...paracetamol and went cycling


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Dec 2015)

When asked about how much the IAAF spends on catching cheats, Coe says it is about four million dollars but "we'll double it if we have to."


----------



## Bobby Mhor (2 Dec 2015)

Marmion said:


> When asked about how much the IAAF spends on catching cheats, Coe says it is about four million dollars but "we'll double it if we have to."


Is the man naive or just a puppet?


----------



## rich p (2 Dec 2015)

More athletics wormios coming out of the woodworkio
in la bella Italia
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/34990174


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Dec 2015)

rich p said:


> More athletics wormios coming out of the woodworkio
> in la bella Italia
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/34990174


I am not sure Italy is a shining light in terms of tackling anything...unless it was Franco Baresi, he could tackle.


----------



## rich p (2 Dec 2015)

Marmion said:


> I am not sure Italy is a shining light in terms of tackling anything...unless it was Franco Baresi, he could tackle.


and that other bloke - Tardelli?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Dec 2015)

rich p said:


> and that other bloke - Tardelli?


Tardelli was Juve. Midfield hatchet but he could also play a bit!


----------



## mr messy (2 Dec 2015)

Marmion said:


> Tardelli was Juve. Midfield hatchet but he could also play a bit!


If you're talkin 'hatchet' there's only one Claudio Gentile


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Dec 2015)

mr messy said:


> If you're talkin 'hatchet' there's only one Claudio Gentile



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk1iRg4Xt-M


----------



## mr messy (2 Dec 2015)

Marmion said:


> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk1iRg4Xt-M



Given his name and look of innocence, surely he wasn't anything but an angel!


----------



## Crackle (3 Dec 2015)

Quite a good appraisal of Coe's Select Committee appearance here

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/dec/02/sebastian-coe-waffling-apologist-iaaf-parliament

It has him down as a waffling apologist. I think that's kind.

_As Andrew Bingham told him: “You were king of the world after London 2012. Your reputation is on the line. What are you going to do about it?”_


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (3 Dec 2015)

Crackle said:


> Quite a good appraisal of Coe's Select Committee appearance here
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/dec/02/sebastian-coe-waffling-apologist-iaaf-parliament
> 
> ...


----------



## 400bhp (6 Dec 2015)

Just watched a bbc documentary about linford christie. It wasbclearly filmed before the athletics crisis and talked a little about his spat with coe. It was really telling that he mentioned corruption in the iaaf back in 2001 and coes insincerity.
Here's a guardian article written a few years later:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http...o-RN4w&usg=AFQjCNF5l04Duguh_Pu9yc3WHH-Mdua9Wg


----------



## Bobby Mhor (6 Dec 2015)

Interesting blog post from Lauren Fleshman HERE
Another Deadspin article HERE
Eyes to the sky HERE


----------



## Bobby Mhor (8 Dec 2015)

If you either wondered why the temptation is there, the bonus amount
HERE


----------



## oldroadman (10 Dec 2015)

400bhp said:


> Just watched a bbc documentary about linford christie. It wasbclearly filmed before the athletics crisis and talked a little about his spat with coe. It was really telling that he mentioned corruption in the iaaf back in 2001 and coes insincerity.
> Here's a guardian article written a few years later:
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http...o-RN4w&usg=AFQjCNF5l04Duguh_Pu9yc3WHH-Mdua9Wg


And Mr Christie is squeaky clean, isn't he? It's not always those cheating Johnny foreigners who do naughty things. Just some are better at not getting caught than others.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (13 Dec 2015)

oldroadman said:


> And Mr Christie is squeaky clean, isn't he? It's not always those cheating Johnny foreigners who do naughty things. Just some are better at not getting caught than others.


They are coming out the woodwork with stories HERE
Why now? another 15 mins of fame....


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (13 Dec 2015)

Bobby Mhor said:


> They are coming out the woodwork with stories HERE
> Why now? another 15 mins of fame....


The article is from the back end of 2012 so it's not exactly now. Intriguing account though.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (13 Dec 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> The article is from the back end of 2012 so it's not exactly now. Intriguing account though.


Shows I should be wearing reading glasses..
It does show how one person can have so much power behind the scenes to pull stunts like that....
Athletes are just there to put the show on..
the real money and power are behind the scenes..
a certain Don King amongst many others springs to mind..


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Dec 2015)

Poor old Seb, at least all his feckwit cronies are doing their best to put forward a "move along nothing to see here" defence for him.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/35126635


----------



## Bobby Mhor (22 Dec 2015)

Marmion said:


> Poor old Seb, at least all his feckwit cronies are doing their best to put forward a "move along nothing to see here" defence for him.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/35126635


You can't hide the smell of shite.....
in true Tory fashion, they will throw him to the wind at some point..


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (22 Dec 2015)

To give Nick Davies his due he does say that dopers should have been unveiled long ago, however, as he appears to have been in the IAAF since 2010 he was very likely party to the cover up at the time. and he does nothing to end the covering up. Indeed, he does the opposite. His email does show, though, that once there is a cover up it's easier to continue managing it rather than end it. The question he needs to answer is who knew about the cover up. Not that he will answer the question.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Dec 2015)

I suppose Seb rubbishing the 'so called' journalists and testers was not part of the cover up. He'd never do that...


----------



## Crackle (22 Dec 2015)

So now we know he knew, it's impossible for him to not have known, unless he really is that stupid. His position is untenable, he cannot possibly survive this much longer.


----------



## SWSteve (22 Dec 2015)

Is he going for a record for shortest term?


----------



## 400bhp (22 Dec 2015)

How good would this be,,,

Seb Coe is replaced by Steve Ovett as IAAF President..

I may start a campaign now.

Coe would be , what the young uns call "OWNED"


----------



## Bobby Mhor (22 Dec 2015)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Is he going for a record for shortest term?


It'll be a new World Record for him..
ah, but is he clean


----------



## oldroadman (22 Dec 2015)

All this stuff coming out is a reminder of how another organisation used to be. For SC and associated personnel read HV/PM and associated personnel, and it looks all very familiar. Question is, who would take on a poisoned chalice in IAAF? They need a very straight, very well off (it's unpaid, right, what a nonsense!) someone who could sort things out and start by some removals and installation of known and trusted people. Question again, where to start? between IAAF and FIFA, alleged fixing of cricket games, credibility of "popular" sports is about zero. Utter shambles. It may only be by closing it all down and starting from scratch there's even a remote chance of getting proper governance and transparency.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Dec 2015)

Nick Davies has "stepped aside", whatever that means; he's probably hoping it means that good old Seb will support him and the IAAF will see him right, what it probably means in reality is he's f*cked
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/35163980


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Dec 2015)

400bhp said:


> How good would this be,,,
> 
> Seb Coe is replaced by Steve Ovett as IAAF President..
> 
> ...



Get with it grandad, it's pwned if you "say" it on interweb thingy


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (23 Dec 2015)

Marmion said:


> Nick Davies has "stepped aside", whatever that means; he's probably hoping it means that good old Seb will support him and the IAAF will see him right, what it probably means in reality is he's f*cked
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/35163980


I wonder whether Coe's initial antagonistic attitude to the press for sullying the name of a sullied organisation was done on Nick Davies' advice. It echoes Davies' email and he was still IAAF's PR chief at the time. At any rate, with him out of the way for a bit, Coe's incredible ''I knew nothing'' line will continue unabated.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (27 Dec 2015)

The Dark Side documentary (embedded in this linked report):
“No one’s got caught, because the system’s so easy to beat,” Robertson, the pharmacist, brags to Collins. “And it still is, that’s the sad fact. I can take a guy with average genetics and make him a world champion.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...4e4b0b958f6599440?ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067


----------



## Bobby Mhor (27 Dec 2015)

Marmion said:


> The Dark Side documentary (embedded in this linked report):
> “No one’s got caught, because the system’s so easy to beat,” Robertson, the pharmacist, brags to Collins. “And it still is, that’s the sad fact. I can take a guy with average genetics and make him a world champion.”
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...4e4b0b958f6599440?ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067


Just watched..
heavy stuff, I've just been in a few of the US baseball and gridiron blog comment sections are buzzing with this.


----------



## psmiffy (27 Dec 2015)

"It's a cheap, popular game, and we don't have any doping issues."


----------



## Bobby Mhor (13 Jan 2016)

Spanish court decision today (Wed)
WADA report pt2 due out Thursday...

Should be an interesting two days..
meanwhile the Spanish agency responsible for testing, had its own wee 'drama' at the weekend HERE In spanish (google translate works)
A Spanish report to Unesco say only 1%() positives in Spanish sport HERE In spanish (google translate works)
34 Essenden AFL players suspended for 'supplement' HERE

The Al Jazerra report had kinda gone quiet but two baseball players mentioned in it are taking Al Jazeera to court HERE plus Peyton Manning admitted his wife was the recipient of HGH delivered to his home....

Is sport rotten?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jan 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> PR's PR? This is getting confusing.
> 
> It'd be good if she moved into public relations full time, perhaps on the US west coast. PR could do PR for LA ... In LA.





Arrowfoot said:


> She is actually an important and iconic figure for the country and immensely for British Athletics. People around the World know of her than say Jeremy Corbyn. She can do much for the sport. Someone needs to talk to her





Marmion said:


> There is another thread for doping in other sports - perhaps take it there for discussion?





Arrowfoot said:


> Perhaps you can help him out as the comments are directly related to his post.





Marmion said:


> Will do, on the other thread.



Crack on...


----------



## SWSteve (14 Jan 2016)

Seb Coe in news today 'I don't believe there was a cover up'.

I doubt people would think twice about throwing him under the bus, why is he so cautious


----------



## Bobby Mhor (14 Jan 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Seb Coe in news today 'I don't believe there was a cover up'.
> 
> I doubt people would think twice about throwing him under the bus, why is he so cautious


Just read the 'live stuff' on BBC Sport HERE
either he is eh, stupid or walked about with his eyes closed..
(I'm sure Nike will point him in the right direction.).

It was them nasty Russkis..
an ideal smokescreen
cue the rent a quote mob coming out in the media..
 for a day or two...


----------



## mr messy (14 Jan 2016)

Laughed out loud when Pound suggested Coe was the best man to sort this out...after saying the whole IAAF was corrupt!


----------



## totallyfixed (14 Jan 2016)

Yes, that was really odd, a most peculiar comment to make.


----------



## rich p (14 Jan 2016)

I agree with the above but I actually don't think Coe is corrupt in the way Blatter, Diack are.
I think he's naïve, and a bit thick. He is, in my opinion, probably the only obvious person to attempt to clear the muck up. I may be wrong though!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jan 2016)

rich p said:


> I may be wrong though!


You are.


----------



## Diggs (14 Jan 2016)

mr messy said:


> Laughed out loud when Pound suggested Coe was the best man to sort this out...after saying the whole IAAF was corrupt![/QUOTE



As suggested on social media today, I hope Coe now releases Pound's family


----------



## Crackle (15 Jan 2016)

Pound in, Gobsmacking support of Coe statement. I spat my tea out. Careful words though. Just because he can't think of anyone else doesn't mean their isn't anyone else. Speculation for Pounds support continues apace however....







Back to my hibernation now.


----------



## oldroadman (15 Jan 2016)

Pound may think Coe is the "least worst" option. Someone who could be brought into line? Best option might be to replace the lot, bit as testing has been slack or results covered up, who would anyone pick with a clean guarantee, and the political nous to sort things. Coe at least scores as a (not awfully good) politician. Back to "least worst" option!
Of course, there's always a certain lady who gets herself in then news a bit.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jan 2016)

oldroadman said:


> Pound may think Coe is the "least worst" option. Someone who could be brought into line? Best option might be to replace the lot, bit as testing has been slack or results covered up, who would anyone pick with a clean guarantee, and the political nous to sort things. Coe at least scores as a (not awfully good) politician. Back to "least worst" option!


A bit like Michel Platini was probably viewed as "least worst" until he was found "just as bad".



oldroadman said:


> Of course, there's always a certain lady who gets herself in then news a bit.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (15 Jan 2016)

oldroadman said:


> Pound may think Coe is the "least worst" option. Someone who could be brought into line? Best option might be to replace the lot, bit as testing has been slack or results covered up, who would anyone pick with a clean guarantee, and the political nous to sort things. Coe at least scores as a (not awfully good) politician. Back to "least worst" option!



I think it's a bit like the awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize to Obama, in other words, telling Coe to do or become something, rather than really believing anything about what he's already done. However, look how Obama worked out on the peace front...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 Jan 2016)

Not doping but cheating in the form of match-fixing in tennis hits the headlines:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/35319202


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (18 Jan 2016)

Marmion said:


> Not doping but cheating in the form of match-fixing in tennis hits the headlines:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/35319202


A bit more in-depth than the previous link:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/the-tennis-racket#.ujKv7G5gM


----------



## rich p (18 Jan 2016)

Marmion said:


> A bit more in-depth than the previous link:
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/the-tennis-racket#.ujKv7G5gM


Ace!


----------



## Bobby Mhor (5 Feb 2016)

The Al Jazeera expose has got wings again...HERE
The two Nats baseball players have already sued for defamation..
the Packers players mentioned have still said 'nothing'...


----------



## Bobby Mhor (6 Feb 2016)

Chinese whispers now HERE


----------



## Tin Pot (6 Feb 2016)

Can we finally see an end to professional sports now?


----------



## Bobby Mhor (13 Feb 2016)

Life time ban handed out to this doofus in baseball HERE


----------



## Crackle (13 Feb 2016)

This is potentially pretty troubling. If Pechstein succeeds she could end CAS arbitration in sports.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/12/s...remacy-of-court-of-arbitration-for-sport.html


----------



## Tin Pot (13 Feb 2016)

rich p said:


> I agree with the above but I actually don't think Coe is corrupt in the way Blatter, Diack are.
> I think he's naïve, and a bit thick. He is, in my opinion, probably the only obvious person to attempt to clear the muck up. I may be wrong though!



Coes election campaign received insider help from the IAAF.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sp...-campaign-received-guidance-broken-rules.html


They need to shoot this horse now. 

It's in agony. 

It's the only humane thing to do.


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (20 Feb 2016)

The Mo Farah story has too many echoes of Armstrong for my liking. A good athlete suddenly transformed into a history making champion. Lots of smoke that we are assured doesn't mean a fire. Repeated protestations that they've never failed a test.
Except we now know the truth about Armstrong and we now know the truth about Kenya, the location of Farah's transformation.


----------



## Berk on a Bike (7 Mar 2016)

Maria Sharapova has admitted failing a drug test at the Australian Open in January. http://bytheminsport.com/events/951

EDIT: Tested +ve for meldonium (same as Vorganov of Katusha). Fell foul of it becoming a banned substance on Jan 1.

Blimey.


----------



## rich p (7 Mar 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Maria Sharapova has admitted failing a drug test at the Australian Open in January. http://bytheminsport.com/events/951
> 
> EDIT: Tested +ve for meldonium (same as Vorganov of Katusha). Fell foul of it becoming a banned substance on Jan 1.
> 
> Blimey.


Blimey indeed. What's the betting that the 'tennis world' will rally round in support. (No pun intended)


----------



## Berk on a Bike (7 Mar 2016)

rich p said:


> Blimey indeed. What's the betting that the 'tennis world' will rally round in support. (No pun intended)


To deflect a "volley" of criticism...?


----------



## rich p (7 Mar 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> To deflect a "volley" of criticism...?


Balls to a punfest, Berk!


----------



## Crackle (7 Mar 2016)

Why would she be taking that, legitimately. And Meldonium still sounds like a race of people from Flash Gordon: Sharapova's alive!

We await an explanation. The balls in her court.


----------



## themosquitoking (7 Mar 2016)

Lol at you two.


----------



## Crackle (7 Mar 2016)

She dissed the hotel carpet at her press conference. She's definitely a wrong 'un

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/35750285

_"I know many of you thought that I would be retiring today but if I was ever going to announce my retirement it would not be in a downtown Los Angeles hotel with this fairly ugly carpet," she said._

She needs a good carpet to retire on.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (7 Mar 2016)

Crackle said:


> Why would she be taking that, legitimately. And Meldonium still sounds like a race of people from Flash Gordon: Sharapova's alive!
> 
> We await an explanation. The balls in her court.


She's fine on grass but she takes meldonium for her feet of clay.


----------



## Crackle (7 Mar 2016)

There are some details of why she takes it here

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...failed-drugs-test-australian-open-2016-tennis

_The Russian said the substance was legal in tennis until 1 January. It was something she has been taking for years and it was prescribed by a doctor in 2006 after she had irregular heartbeat and other health conditions including the early signs of diabetes._

Could be absolutely legit. We'll have to wait and see. At least she has stood up and taken responsibility.

_“I have to take full responsibility for it, it’s my body and I have to be responsible for what I put in my body,” she said._


----------



## Crackle (7 Mar 2016)

And an excellent blog on what Meldonium is and why it made it on the WADA banned list. It leaves less doubt why people take it and who takes it. Pretty damning really.

https://jakegshelley.wordpress.com/2016/03/03/what-is-melodoniummildronate/


----------



## psmiffy (7 Mar 2016)

Crackle said:


> And an excellent blog on what Meldonium is and why it made it on the WADA banned list. It leaves less doubt why people take it and who takes it. Pretty damning really.
> 
> https://jakegshelley.wordpress.com/2016/03/03/what-is-melodoniummildronate/



Would it be much benefit to a female tennis player though - Matches rarely last beyond 2hrs - sit down every 5 to 10 minutes with 5 minutes between sets

Will be interesting to see how it pans out - she doesn't need the money from playing - will her big name sponsors - esp Nike - drop her? - A two year ban would give her time to sort out her injury problems - only be 30 at the end of the ban - bank another £20M in two years after ban?


----------



## Beebo (7 Mar 2016)

Crackle said:


> Could be absolutely legit. We'll have to wait and see. At least she has stood up and taken responsibility.
> 
> _“I have to take full responsibility for it, it’s my body and I have to be responsible for what I put in my body,” she said._


Yeah, good to see she is not testing her B sample and has admitted fault, unlike 99% of others who come up with dome lame excuse like dodgy beef or a spiked supplement.


----------



## Crackle (7 Mar 2016)

psmiffy said:


> Would it be much benefit to a female tennis player though - Matches rarely last beyond 2hrs - sit down every 5 to 10 minutes with 5 minutes between sets
> 
> Will be interesting to see how it pans out - she doesn't need the money from playing - will her big name sponsors - esp Nike - drop her? - A two year ban would give her time to sort out her injury problems - only be 30 at the end of the ban - bank another £20M in two years after ban?


The Wada findings indicated it was widely used in strength sports, so I guess it's of some benefit. It's rumoured that there's more meldonium positives to come so it may well have an influence on her case. As for the rest I don't know and God knows if Nike will drop her, they are rather insensitive to doping.


----------



## psmiffy (7 Mar 2016)

The other interesting thing in the article was that the anti-doping labs were using a newish ultra sensitive MS - able to detect peaks/substances that they couldn't before - be interesting to see what other substances/dopers are highlighted in the January round of testing 2017 - dopers may be ahead but it seems that WADA et.al. are running forwards as hard as they can within their limited resourses


----------



## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2016)

Her prescription for diabetes excuse is clearly total bollocks.


----------



## Berk on a Bike (8 Mar 2016)

psmiffy said:


> ...will her big name sponsors - esp Nike - drop her?...


It appears the answer is yes.


----------



## Crackle (8 Mar 2016)

Tag Heur have called time too.


----------



## fossyant (8 Mar 2016)

Dodgy as Pharmstrong

"The drug was name-checked in the latest investigative documentary on Russian doping reforms by the German Hajo Seppelt on Sunday. The documentary referred to a 2015 study in which 17% of Russian athletes (724 of 4,316) tested were found to have meldonium in their system. A global study found 2.2% of athletes had it in their system."

Made in Latvia, only prescribed in Baltic Countries and Russia, not authorised in Europe/US.

Well known to increase blood flow. 

Looks like most of her sponsors are pulling out. Porsche deal ends this year, but have stopped her marketing appearances.

Stupid !


----------



## fossyant (8 Mar 2016)

All these Athletes that say they didn't know it was on the list, erm, you bloody well know !


----------



## smutchin (8 Mar 2016)

Obviously Sharapova getting busted is bigger news but this is the same stuff Katusha's Vorganov was nabbed for recently.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2016)

Everyone over here is urging leniancy and understanding, because 'she's been so good for the sport'. Clearly if you are a popular beautiful blonde white woman, who is practically American, there are different standards than if you are a grim Russian cyclist or an Ethiopian runner whose name no-one can pronounce...


----------



## fossyant (8 Mar 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Everyone over here is urging leniancy and understanding, because 'she's been so good for the sport'. Clearly if you are a popular beautiful blonde white woman, who is practically American, there are different standards than if you are a grim Russain cyclist or an Ethiopian runner whose name no-one can pronounce...



Probably why Lancy boy got away with it for so long.


----------



## SWSteve (8 Mar 2016)

https://twitter.com/scienceofsport/status/706938080071180289


----------



## Hont (8 Mar 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Her prescription for diabetes excuse is clearly total bollocks.


Certainly is...

http://www.sugarpova.com/about/


----------



## Hont (8 Mar 2016)

Beebo said:


> Yeah, good to see she is not testing her B sample and has admitted fault, unlike 99% of others who come up with dome lame excuse like dodgy beef or a spiked supplement.


I think it's called spin. She appears to be trying to own the message. What she hasn't explained though is how a US based athlete was prescribed a drug that is not available in the US and why she was on it for ten years when the manufacturers recommend that a course of treatment be for 4-6 weeks.


----------



## Crackle (8 Mar 2016)

Hont said:


> I think it's called spin. She appears to be trying to own the message. What she hasn't explained though is how a US based athlete was prescribed a drug that is not available in the US and why she was on it for ten years when the manufacturers recommend that a course of treatment be for 4-6 weeks.


Is that right, 4-6 weeks. Of course saying she's been taking it 10 years, doesn't necessarily mean continuously. I did wonder about the family doctor bit given she lives in America and it's not approved for use there. I thought perhaps her parents still lived in Russia, she is still a Russian citizen. They're all details which you'd need to know to make sense of circumstances.


----------



## Inertia (8 Mar 2016)

Hont said:


> Certainly is...
> 
> http://www.sugarpova.com/about/


Ironic but doesnt mean she eats it herself 



Hont said:


> I think it's called spin. She appears to be trying to own the message. What she hasn't explained though is how a US based athlete was prescribed a drug that is not available in the US and why she was on it for ten years when the manufacturers recommend that a course of treatment be for 4-6 weeks.


yeah I dont get why people are giving her a ton of credit for that, she hasnt asked the for B sample because she knows what it will show. What else can she do but admit it and try and convince people its an honest mistake?



Crackle said:


> Is that right, 4-6 weeks. Of course saying she's been taking it 10 years, doesn't necessarily mean continuously. I did wonder about the family doctor bit given she lives in America and it's not approved for use there. I thought perhaps her parents still lived in Russia, she is still a Russian citizen. They're all details which you'd need to know to make sense of circumstances.


Yep, its right but if she only took it sporadically you would think she might have said. The family doctor bit sounds like more spin.

http://www.bigstory.ap.org/article/...-6-weeks-normal-treatment-drug-sharapova-case



> Depending on the patient's health condition, treatment course of meldonium preparations may vary from four to six weeks. Treatment course can be repeated twice or thrice a year," the company said in an emailed statement. "Only physicians can follow and evaluate patient's health condition and state whether the patient should use meldonium for a longer period of time."


----------



## Hont (8 Mar 2016)

Inertia said:


> Ironic but doesnt mean she eats it herself



True, but then she says on the site...

_"I’ve always had a sweet tooth. And I am not exaggerating one bit. My earliest memory of candy is being a little girl back in Russia and asking my parents for a lollipop after a good practice on the tennis court. It was that little treat I looked forward to. And here I am many years later hoping to get a sweet treat after a good practice."_

Of course that could all be PR BS but, if so, why should what she's telling us now be any different?


----------



## SWSteve (8 Mar 2016)

Are the FDA allowed to ask where she was prescribed the medicines, and where she was taking them?


----------



## Inertia (8 Mar 2016)

Hont said:


> True, but then she says on the site...
> 
> _"I’ve always had a sweet tooth. And I am not exaggerating one bit. My earliest memory of candy is being a little girl back in Russia and asking my parents for a lollipop after a good practice on the tennis court. It was that little treat I looked forward to. And here I am many years later hoping to get a sweet treat after a good practice."_
> 
> Of course that could all be PR BS but, if so, why should what she's telling us now be any different?


I agree, it is PR BS and we should definately want some evidence before believing her.



ItsSteveLovell said:


> Are the FDA allowed to ask where she was prescribed the medicines, and where she was taking them?


They already know, its her 'family doctor'


----------



## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2016)

Hont said:


> I think it's called spin. She appears to be trying to own the message. What she hasn't explained though is how a US based athlete was prescribed a drug that is not available in the US and why she was on it for ten years when the manufacturers recommend that a course of treatment be for 4-6 weeks.



Yes, indeed:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/mar/08/meldonium-treatment-four-to-six-weeks-maria-sharapova


----------



## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2016)

fossyant said:


> Probably why Lancy boy got away with it for so long.



Well, Lance was certainly charismatic. But I think that the threats, the omerta, being a good ole boy, and having links with politicians inside and outside the sport, might all have been rather more explanatory.


----------



## fossyant (8 Mar 2016)

Inertia said:


> I agree, it is PR BS and we should definately want some evidence before believing her.
> 
> 
> They already know, its her 'family doctor'



Dr Ferrari, Fuentes or Portugalov perchance ?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (8 Mar 2016)

In any profession you have to keep up to date with changes, new regulations, updated practices etc, and tennis is no different, so knowing you take a prescription drug it is your duty or at least the doctor you hired duty, to stay up on the latest wada lists, she screwed up that at the very least, no excuse, ban should be forthcoming.


----------



## Joffey (8 Mar 2016)

Sharapova really annoyed me yesterday so I wrote this:

https://joffeyblog.wordpress.com/2016/03/08/maria-sharapova-gets-popped-and-i-smell-bullshit/


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (8 Mar 2016)

Joffey said:


> Sharapova really annoyed me yesterday so I wrote this:
> 
> https://joffeyblog.wordpress.com/2016/03/08/maria-sharapova-gets-popped-and-i-smell-bullshit/


Ah, but the proof that it works is that she doesn't have diabetes.


----------



## Crackle (9 Mar 2016)

Shaza's lawyers are preparing to argue for a ban of less than a year, citing previous precedents. I can see this going to CAS

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/mar/09/maria-sharapova-meldonium-lawyers-ban

They do also mention other drugs, wonder what they are.


----------



## Chromatic (9 Mar 2016)

Once she's served her ban there's a drug she should be forced to take and that's one to stop her making that ridiculous shriek everytime she hits the ball.


----------



## Milkfloat (9 Mar 2016)

My understanding is that she, like others was required to list all medication she was using right down to vitamin C, on a yearly basis. She has never disclosed her use of meldonium in the 10 years she has taken it. Seems a bit weird to me.


----------



## SWSteve (9 Mar 2016)

Andy Murray is generally outspoken on doping in Tennis, and doesn't seem particularly tolerant of it in the press, God knows what he says in private. It would be interesting to hear what he would say about this


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Mar 2016)

They are still talking about a retrospective TUE, but there are no therapeutic grounds for 10-year use of a drug meant to be used for 4-6 weeks.


----------



## rich p (9 Mar 2016)

She and her lawyer are talking boliix and for Serena Williams to call her 'brave' is equally risible.
But it's tennis and their track record in anti-doping is abysmal so nothinh would surprise me, apart from a 2 year ban.


----------



## Crackle (9 Mar 2016)

Isn't it 4 now and only two if there's no fault and forgetting to check the banned list doesn't count?


----------



## rich p (9 Mar 2016)

Crackle said:


> Isn't it 4 now and only two if there's no fault and forgetting to check the banned list doesn't count?


You may well be right and it did cross my mind. Has anyone been given the full four yet for a first offence?


----------



## oldroadman (10 Mar 2016)

Should be 4 years, no argument. If an anti-doping agency ran the whole process from test to sanction, no argument. But ITF are running the hearing and sanction, and they need to "protect" the image of a big money sport that is quite possibly riddled with chemical problems. Interesting comment the other day "look back at Borg, Conners, etc., they look like little old men compared to the giants of today, who hit the ball incredibly hard and can do so for hours on end". I rest my case. ITF will listen to all the PR BS, good looking woman and all that, has increased the sport's profile, and I'll be surprised if she does not get off with much more than a 6 month holiday. Absolute hypocrisy.


----------



## Crackle (10 Mar 2016)

rich p said:


> You may well be right and it did cross my mind. Has anyone been given the full four yet for a first offence?


Yes, they are handing out four year bans

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/four-year-doping-ban-for-maria-luisa-calle/


----------



## Strathlubnaig (10 Mar 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Andy Murray is generally outspoken on doping in Tennis, and doesn't seem particularly tolerant of it in the press, God knows what he says in private. It would be interesting to hear what he would say about this


"I find it strange that there's a prescription drug used for heart conditions and so many athletes competing at the top level of their sport would have that condition. That sounds a bit off to me."


----------



## Strathlubnaig (10 Mar 2016)

Fitba' http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35776618


----------



## Andrew_P (3 Apr 2016)

Some attention being turned by journalists to other mainstream sports, although cycling still gets a mention.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/35952566


----------



## midlife (3 Apr 2016)

Andrew_P said:


> Some attention being turned by journalists to other mainstream sports, although cycling still gets a mention.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/35952566



The picture I see on my tablet is the front end of a 1970's Carlton Pro in lagoon blue, white and chrome complete with large flange wheel . Classy picture taken from some picture library 

Shaun


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 Apr 2016)

Vladmir Putin says that Meldonium is not a performance-enhancing drug, it just protects your heart. 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/14/vladimir-putin-meldonium-wada-russia

Case closed!


----------



## SWSteve (14 Apr 2016)

Wad a are considering repealing those banned from Melondium it would appear. 

I would understand this, provided those who had been using it lived in the countries in which it is available, but then again, I'm not a super fancy tennis babe who loves in America, who might feel victimised and need the 
Worlds press to support her.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Apr 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Wad a are considering repealing those banned from Melondium it would appear.
> 
> I would understand this, provided those who had been using it lived in the countries in which it is available, but then again, I'm not a super fancy tennis babe who loves in America, who might feel victimised and need the
> Worlds press to support her.


I read something earlier today re this (which I now cannot find), and there was some element of timescales involved re how long it remains within the body and the levels present. So the guidelines permit some athletes within a given time period who had certain levels to be "let off", whilst others remain banned.

I'll go see if I can find the article again...


----------



## SWSteve (14 Apr 2016)

Marmion said:


> I read something earlier today re this (which I now cannot find), and there was some element of timescales involved re how long it remains within the body and the levels present. So the guidelines permit some athletes within a given time period who had certain levels to be "let off", whilst others remain banned.
> 
> I'll go see if I can find the article again...




I heard something similar. The half-life of Melondium is relatively unknown, but I don't understand why those who live in countries where Melondium isn't available would be able to take it without repercussions. WADA should take that into account, but there can't be any grey areas...


----------



## Hont (15 Apr 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> The half-life of Melondium is relatively unknown


In the case of Sharapova (IIRC) her defence was never that she had stopped taking it when it became banned, it was that she did not read her emails - ergo by implication she has confessed to taking it when it was banned.


----------



## User169 (15 Apr 2016)

Hont said:


> In the case of Sharapova (IIRC) her defence was never that she had stopped taking it when it became banned, it was that she did not read her emails - ergo by implication she has confessed to taking it when it was banned.



Bet she's regretting that now!


----------



## psmiffy (15 Apr 2016)

DP said:


> Bet she's regretting that now!



I suspect that with WADA having dug themselves a small hole wrt the length of time the stuff remains in the body that she will be included in an all encompassing 2016 amnesty


----------



## SWSteve (15 Apr 2016)

psmiffy said:


> I suspect that with WADA having dug themselves a small hole wrt the length of time the stuff remains in the body that she will be included in an all encompassing 2016 amnesty




Which would be complete BS, it should be managed by countries in which the drug was available (which is still a ridiculous waiver). But that would lead to a big case with CAS


----------



## SWSteve (19 Apr 2016)

Andy Murray is a bad man for saying he has concerns about potential doping. http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...bc_sport&ns_source=facebook&ns_linkname=sport


----------



## Inertia (19 Apr 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Andy Murray is a bad man for saying he has concerns about potential doping. http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...bc_sport&ns_source=facebook&ns_linkname=sport


Well Becker would know



> Becker was fined for expressing his astonishment that his opponent had recovered so quickly, in remarks that were widely interpreted as implying Muster had taken illegal drugs.


----------



## Hont (19 Apr 2016)

Inertia said:


> Well Becker would know


"I believe 100% Andy is clean.

"Roger [Federer] is clean, Rafa [Nadal] is clean, all these guys are clean. Novak gets tested a lot."

Funny that he doesn't say Novak is clean.


----------



## 400bhp (19 Apr 2016)

One of the top players is up to no good and Andy knows who it is.


----------



## SWSteve (20 Apr 2016)

400bhp said:


> One of the top players is up to no good and Andy knows who it is.




If Murray is clean, and I hope he is for how much he says the current standards aren't good enough, then I am impressed he has a grandslam to his name. It would probably explain why the summer of 2012 he flew, as other wouldn't be able to have doped in the run up to the olympics


----------



## Crackle (20 Apr 2016)

400bhp said:


> One of the top players is up to no good and Andy knows who it is.


Well he doesn't agree with Djokovic, who funnily enough, used to flag during matches.


----------



## smutchin (20 Apr 2016)

Have to be careful what I say to avoid giving away identities, but I was speaking to someone recently who conducts high level research into sports nutrition and gives nutritional advice to world class professional sportspeople, and he came out with the classic line that cycling has different nutritional needs to football because the latter is a 'game of skil'. 

Ok, so we weren't talking about doping per se but it was still disappointing to hear that from someone in his position.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Apr 2016)

smutchin said:


> ...football because the latter is a 'game of skil'.
> 
> Ok, so we weren't talking about doping per se but it was still disappointing to hear that from someone in his position.



Can't have been anyone that's watched Man Utd lately


----------



## Dayvo (21 Apr 2016)

Marmion said:


> Can't have been anyone that's watched Man Utd lately



Football fans _have_ to take drugs in Scotland to get through 90 mins of drudgery. Speed is their prefered choice as it makes time fly 'when they're having _fun.' 

_


----------



## User169 (23 Apr 2016)

Oh dear. As those youngsters would say, srsly?!

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/23/mamadou-sakho-drug-test-failure


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Apr 2016)

DP said:


> Oh dear. As those youngsters would say, srsly?!
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/23/mamadou-sakho-drug-test-failure


A perfect example of minimising the issue. In a game of "skill" - I reckon the article was written by @User


----------



## albion (23 Apr 2016)

"Football generally gets an easier ride than most sports over drugs because it is neither a power nor an endurance sport. It is not readily apparent what sort of preparation would enhance performance without being easy to detect"
"nor do they need to keep going for hours like cyclists"

Yet some teams go/went full blast near sprinting for 90 minutes whilst their opposition visibly tire.


----------



## albion (23 Apr 2016)

Obviously, the ones who win.

There has to be Armstrongs and Jones's in the sport, a sport where even the Championship players are made rich.


----------



## SWSteve (23 Apr 2016)

God knows what Sakho may have been taking, but it can't be rocket fuel. The man moves like a container ship with a dodgy rudder


----------



## SWSteve (25 Apr 2016)

It would appear Sakho was taking the same pills Kolo Toure was also taking.


----------



## User169 (26 Apr 2016)

Nadal takes the bull by the horns, or summat like that....

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ue-french-cabinet-minister-doping-allegations

Meanwhile, vials of blood gather dust in a Spanish courtroom.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (26 Apr 2016)

DP said:


> Nadal takes the bull by the horns, or summat like that....
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ue-french-cabinet-minister-doping-allegations
> 
> Meanwhile, vials of blood gather dust in a Spanish courtroom.


If they sit long enough they can then say "that was then, things have changed..."


----------



## SWSteve (26 Apr 2016)

DP said:


> Nadal takes the bull by the horns, or summat like that....
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ue-french-cabinet-minister-doping-allegations
> 
> Meanwhile, vials of blood gather dust in a Spanish courtroom.




I assume this would happen in France, meaning the blood that's in Spain will never need to be touched. It's odd how aside from Murray, the others of the Big 4 seemed to drop off around the Olympics in 2012. It will be good to see how they cope in Brasil


----------



## Hont (28 Apr 2016)

User said:


> I believe, that most footballers use drugs more for recovery rather than increased preformance over 90 minutes...


That's an oxymoron. The whole point of recovery is to perform better over 90 minutes.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (28 Apr 2016)

Hont said:


> That's an oxymoron. The whole point of recovery is to perform better over 90 minutes.



And indeed, there is in most sports far more use of drugs to increase training capacity and speed recovery times in between events, than increase performance specifically in events. This is the main reason for out-of-competition testing, whereabouts rules etc. etc.


----------



## SWSteve (28 Apr 2016)

Sakho suspended for 30 days prior to proper sanction. Basically, get the Euros where he plays for the host nation, then will get a full ban after, if at all.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (3 May 2016)

Before today there was only one WADA-accredited lab in Africa. Now there are none, following the suspension of accreditation until 30 September 2016.
https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/n...-accreditation-of-the-bloemfontein-laboratory


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 May 2016)

At least 4* Russian Gold medalists at Sochi were doping:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-doping-at-sochi-winter-olympics-exposed/

*I'd be more surprised if any were not


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (12 May 2016)

Sochi urine samples replaced
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/13/sports/russia-doping-sochi-olympics-2014.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0


----------



## Crackle (12 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> Sochi urine samples replaced
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/13/sports/russia-doping-sochi-olympics-2014.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0


Breathtaking.


----------



## rich p (12 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> Breathtaking.


Pith-taking...


----------



## slowmotion (13 May 2016)

Thread deviation alert.

Can anybody post a link to a short Dutch documentary (probably five or six years old) about Lance Armstrong? It may have been by NOS. It featured some American bike shop, Paul Kimmage, American journalists, and some comments about Lance's cancer fund-raising.
I just can't find it again. Thank you.


----------



## User169 (13 May 2016)

WADA wants Kenya to be declared non-compliant, which could lead to them being excluded from the Rio Olympics. I find it difficult to believe that that the IOC will ultimately kick Kenya out - I guess some kind of deal will be done to allow them to stay in.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/12/kenya-olympic-doubt-wada-non-compliant


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 May 2016)

slowmotion said:


> Thread deviation alert.
> 
> Can anybody post a link to a short Dutch documentary (probably five or six years old) about Lance Armstrong? It may have been by NOS. It featured some American bike shop, Paul Kimmage, American journalists, and some comments about Lance's cancer fund-raising.
> I just can't find it again. Thank you.


This one?
http://nos.nl/video/210777-lance-armstrong-gebruikte-doping.html


----------



## HF2300 (13 May 2016)

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/may/06/wales-yegor-titov-euro-2004-russia


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 May 2016)

HF2300 said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/may/06/wales-yegor-titov-euro-2004-russia


Game of skill innit?


----------



## Hont (13 May 2016)

HF2300 said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/may/06/wales-yegor-titov-euro-2004-russia


Reads like a report on cycling from 20 years ago.

"nobody benefits from swishing back the curtain"

Curtain swishing. The football equivalent of Omerta.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 May 2016)

User said:


> and one final point although a tad pertantic Titov didn't even make it to 60 minutes before being subbed.....


So they took the tit off?

<boom tish>


----------



## slowmotion (13 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> This one?
> http://nos.nl/video/210777-lance-armstrong-gebruikte-doping.html


That's the one. Thank you very much.


----------



## HF2300 (13 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> So they took the tit off?
> 
> <boom tish>



You don't deserve a like for that, just a groan. Groan.


----------



## Scoosh (13 May 2016)

HF2300 said:


> You don't deserve a like for that, just a groan. Groan.


... and sent back to bed !


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 May 2016)

Scoosh said:


> ... and sent back to bed !


Too late, you already liked it


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 May 2016)

US Justice Department has allegedly opened an investigation into the Russian doping malarky 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/18/s...artment-russia-doping-investigation.html?_r=0


----------



## rich p (17 May 2016)

Did we already mention the IOC retesting London 2012 samples and 31 athletes facing a ban from the Beijing games?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 May 2016)

rich p said:


> Did we already mention the IOC retesting London 2012 samples and 31 athletes facing a ban from the Beijing games?


I don't think we did. I heard it on the radio today. On the BBC. So I reckoned it might have been a few months old.


----------



## psmiffy (17 May 2016)

31 without the results from 254 tests on samples taken at 2012 London


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jun 2016)

rich p said:


> Did we already mention the IOC retesting London 2012 samples and 31 athletes facing a ban from the Beijing games?





psmiffy said:


> 31 without the results from 254 tests on samples taken at 2012 London



Jamaican athlete included in failed A sample list
http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/...ican-athlete-tested-positive-banned-substance

So that would be one of these lot:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica_at_the_2008_Summer_Olympics#Medalists


----------



## Hont (2 Jun 2016)

Disappointing that the media are focussed so much on Russia, when Jamaica smells almost as bad. But I really like the whole idea of retrospective testing. If you've cheated it must remove some of the glory, never being sure you've got away with it.

On another matter, watching some baseball last night, the commentators were talking about Marlon Byrd. Second offence and he only gets a one year ban. US sports still giving you three chances to find a doping programme that can't be detected.


----------



## SWSteve (2 Jun 2016)

Hont said:


> Disappointing that the media are focussed so much on Russia, when Jamaica smells almost as bad. But I really like the whole idea of retrospective testing. If you've cheated it must remove some of the glory, never being sure you've got away with it.
> 
> On another matter, watching some baseball last night, the commentators were talking about Marlon Byrd. Second offence and he only gets a one year ban. US sports still giving you three chances to find a doping programme that can't be detected.




Re American sports, I guess the collective bargaining agreements that underpin all of the major leagues will have fought for the three strikes ruling


----------



## Hont (2 Jun 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Re American sports, I guess the collective bargaining agreements that underpin all of the major leagues will have fought for the three strikes ruling


No doubt. It's an odd trajectory though. 6 month ban > year ban > life. There's very little disincentive to try it in the first (and second) instance.


----------



## SWSteve (2 Jun 2016)

Hont said:


> No doubt. It's an odd trajectory though. 6 month ban > year ban > life. There's very little disincentive to try it in the first (and second) instance.



I know. yet players get banned from the NFL for marijuana abuse along different guidelines


----------



## SWSteve (2 Jun 2016)

London 2012 Olympics: Adem Kilicci & Yekaterina Gnidenko suspended
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/36437045

'Athletes from Russia who prove they are clean should be allowed to compete'

What, so they can be re-tested in a couple if years and fail. Poss off IOC


----------



## Hont (3 Jun 2016)

Marmion said:


> So that would be one of these lot:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica_at_the_2008_Summer_Olympics#Medalists


Named as Nesta Carter...

http://www.insidethegames.biz/artic...nner-to-test-positive-in-beijing-2008-retests

Bolt could lose one of his gold medals.


----------



## SWSteve (5 Jun 2016)

Djokovic completes a career grand slam. Bizarre this happened in an Olympic year


----------



## 400bhp (5 Jun 2016)

Hont said:


> Bolt could lose one of his gold medals.



Should


----------



## 400bhp (5 Jun 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Djokovic completes a career grand slam. Bizarre this happened in an Olympic year



Why?


----------



## fossyant (5 Jun 2016)

The whole lot need banning. Full stop, you are out !!!


----------



## SWSteve (5 Jun 2016)

400bhp said:


> Why?



Well, I would have expected his performances to have diminished in the lead up to Rio.


----------



## 400bhp (5 Jun 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Well, I would have expected his performances to have diminished in the lead up to Rio.



Ahh I see. His fitness just isn't plausible is it. In 1, 5, 10 year's time we will look back and think it was so obvious.


----------



## Berk on a Bike (8 Jun 2016)

Sharapova has been given a 2 year ban backdated to Jan 2016.


----------



## psmiffy (8 Jun 2016)

Rather stronger than I expected - however, the CAS outcome bearing in mind the possible fudges wrt to other mildronate positives



> The World Anti-Doping Agency admitted in April that scientists were unsure how long meldonium stayed in the system, and suggested athletes who tested positive before 1 March could avoid bans, provided they had stopped taking it before 1 January.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (8 Jun 2016)

That's a fair decision, I think.


----------



## Beebo (9 Jun 2016)

Nike and Head both remain as sponsors. 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36485320


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jun 2016)

English language version of Doping - Top Secret: showdown for Russia

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdu7626ysKY


----------



## 400bhp (10 Jun 2016)

Beebo said:


> Nike and Head both remain as sponsors.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36485320



Perhaps this is quite telling in that the sponsors read the public reaction (globally) to doping as passive?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (10 Jun 2016)

400bhp said:


> Perhaps this is quite telling in that the sponsors read the public reaction (globally) to doping as passive?



Well, certainly to doping by beautiful blonde white women...


----------



## 400bhp (10 Jun 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Well, certainly to doping by beautiful blonde white women...



Maybe. 

Interestingly she is only one of two women in the forbes top 100 sports star earners last year.


----------



## albion (16 Jun 2016)

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-doping-whistleblower-idUSKCN0US2IM20160114
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/16/sports/olympics/world-anti-doping-agency-russia-cheating.html

So whistleblowers simply got whistleblowed until things got pushed to the fore elsewhere..
Aside from that, the Sharapova story is more than a bit strange. An innocent mistake or did they think it would be seen to and ignored?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 Jun 2016)

I really hope Lord Seb of Coe gets "found out" as the corrupt prick that he is
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/36541301


----------



## Crackle (17 Jun 2016)

Marmion said:


> I really hope Lord Seb of Coe gets "found out" as the corrupt prick that he is
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/36541301


Who will replace him. World sport has lost all credibility now. Fifa, Athletics, Russia, it's beyond parody.


----------



## albion (17 Jun 2016)

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jun/17/russia-rio-olympics-ban-doping-iaaf-sebastian-coe

'The world athletics governing body will uphold a ban on Russian athletes imposed in the wake of a state-sponsored doping scandal, the Guardian understands'
'will consider “whether and if individual athletes should be given individual justice”. The IOC executive board will meet over the weekend ahead of the summit.'

Looks like they might have an agreed a work around to let Russia compete, though, by the looks of it, it sets a very bad precedent if you can all simply avoid testing in your own country.


----------



## rich p (18 Jun 2016)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/36562570

'_But individual athletes can compete as neutrals if they prove they are clean.'_

How on earth does an athlete, Russian or otherwise, prove that they're clean? The best they can do is to prove that they are clean at a point in time. It doesn't prove that they've not been stuffed the gills with HGH or epo for the last 4 years.


----------



## psmiffy (18 Jun 2016)

I suspect that there is a fair few Russians that effectively live outside Russia - tested out of competition in the country they live and train in and the countries that they compete in


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (18 Jun 2016)

Crackle said:


> Who will replace him. World sport has lost all credibility now. Fifa, Athletics, Russia, it's beyond parody.


Aha!






psmiffy said:


> I suspect that there is a fair few Russians that effectively live outside Russia - tested out of competition in the country they live and train in and the countries that they compete in


Like Sharapova?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jun 2016)

psmiffy said:


> I suspect that there is a fair few Russians that effectively live outside Russia - tested out of competition in the country they live and train in and the countries that they compete in


Yes, testing well away from Russia seems to be a way back in for Russian athletes.


----------



## psmiffy (18 Jun 2016)

Marmion said:


> Like Sharapova?



Yup - I believe she was on a watch list before the ban came into effect


----------



## rich p (18 Jun 2016)

psmiffy said:


> Yup - I believe she was on a *watch list* before the ban came into effect


Tag Heuer, do you mean?


----------



## themosquitoking (18 Jun 2016)

rich p said:


> Tag Heuer, do you mean?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (19 Jun 2016)

2 Russian race walkers appeal to CAS about Rio ban
http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_307134/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=KeoHV8l5


----------



## HF2300 (2 Jul 2016)

Stepanova allowed to compete as an independent:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...r-yulia-stepanova-cleared-neutral-athlete-rio


----------



## david k (2 Jul 2016)

Sadly rugby both codes have banned numerous, often lower levels and many from Wales for some reason? Watched a programme on it from bbc iplayer


----------



## rich p (8 Jul 2016)

WADA and the UCI have their share of the Puerto blood bags now. 
I'm not sure how WADA match that DNA with tennis players or footballers though?


----------



## SWSteve (8 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> WADA and the UCI have their share of the Puerto blood bags now.
> I'm not sure how WADA match that DNA with tennis players or footballers though?




They don't, but if they can say that bags marked 12346-34312 from athletes initials ab and pw contain banned substances not detectable in urine, and we are unable to link these bags to known athletes, then hopefully they will be able to push for blood testing in both football and tennis


----------



## Hont (8 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> ... hopefully they will be able to push for blood testing in both football and tennis


Tennis already has blood testing. Not sure about Football.


----------



## albion (8 Jul 2016)

They both do, but they tend to allow a sentence to be masked as an injury.

It is why high profile tennis players get accused on social media when taking time out with injury.


----------



## HF2300 (8 Jul 2016)

Hont said:


> Tennis already has blood testing. Not sure about Football.



Although some tennis players have been very outspoken in the past about the inadequacy of the testing regime. There is in and out of competition testing in football but WADA has said in the past the game needs to do more.


----------



## 400bhp (9 Jul 2016)

Turkish athletes suddenly doing well at the Europeans...


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> Turkish athletes suddenly doing well at the Europeans...


I had noticed that. Topping the table at the European games


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Kenyan doctors claim they gave British athletes banned substances:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/36756105


----------



## oldroadman (11 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> Turkish athletes suddenly doing well at the Europeans...


benefits of a diet rich in Turkish Delight...


----------



## Hont (11 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Kenyan doctors claim they gave British athletes banned substances:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/36756105


Now who do we know who trains in Kenya....


----------



## Crackle (11 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Kenyan doctors claim they gave British athletes banned substances:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/36756105


Is that report or another which goes on to say or imply, they lied for the money. Big pinch of salt and a reality check required on this one I think.


----------



## HF2300 (11 Jul 2016)

Hont said:


> Now who do we know who trains in Kenya....





Crackle said:


> Is that report or another which goes on to say or imply, they lied for the money. Big pinch of salt and a reality check required on this one I think.



Yes, it's this one - or to do with this case, anyway. An associate of the doctors said he encouraged them to lie in the hope of payouts from journalists (mentioned in this article) while the doctors dissociated themselves from the report or refused to stand it up when asked.

It's got to be investigated, but it's not exactly a smoking gun at the moment and I suspect will all come to naught. As you say, to be taken with a health warning.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Jul 2016)

Golf: McIlroy says he could "get away with" doping:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/36774868


----------



## themosquitoking (12 Jul 2016)

My wife is apparently already suspicious of the fact the "top 4 golfers in the world" have quit. I have no idea who the top four golfers in the world are and my wife just became a little less attractive after her Clarkson impersanation.


----------



## 400bhp (12 Jul 2016)

themosquitoking said:


> My wife is apparently already suspicious of the fact the "top 4 golfers in the world" have quit. I have no idea who the top four golfers in the world are and my wife just became a little less attractive after her Clarkson impersanation.


The course has been built on a swamp


----------



## Big Dave laaa (13 Jul 2016)

I know nothing of the game of golf other than what I see on the tv but it doesn't strike me as a sport that would hugely benefit from doping. Serious question, what would a golfer be likely to take? Beta Blockers?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2016)

Big Dave laaa said:


> I know nothing of the game of golf other than what I see on the tv but it doesn't strike me as a sport that would hugely benefit from doping. Serious question, what would a golfer be likely to take? Beta Blockers?


According to this article - found using Google using "doping in golf" search terms btw  - "the drugs of choice for golfers are diuretics and other masking agents as well as Glucocortico-steroids."

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gol...ing-and-athletics-for-drug-findings-1.2301094


----------



## Big Dave laaa (13 Jul 2016)

Thanks for the information. I never use Google as I'd rather trust the opinion of people on forums  diuretics and masking agents aren't really doping tho are they? The steroid type you have mentioned is also nothing more than a serious anti inflammatory. So my question still stands really. Masking agents for what?


----------



## Shadow (13 Jul 2016)

Big Dave laaa said:


> Serious question, what would a golfer be likely to take? Beta Blockers?


I have no idea either but then I think golf is one of the most ridiculous 'sports' going.

Perhaps to build upper body strength to hit the ball harder and further,_ à la_ baseball big hitters?

Perhaps you could ask the question on a friendly Golf Chat forum?!!!


----------



## psmiffy (13 Jul 2016)

Top golfers now spend time in the gym and doing cardio training - the top 10 are all lean and muscular - recovery is the key to being able to train for all sports


----------



## Big Dave laaa (13 Jul 2016)

Shadow said:


> I have no idea either but then I think golf is one of the most ridiculous 'sports' going.
> 
> Perhaps to build upper body strength to hit the ball harder and further,_ à la_ baseball big hitters?
> 
> Perhaps you could ask the question on a friendly Golf Chat forum?!!!



Yeah I could do that I suppose but my opinion of golf is similar to yours and as the title of this thread is 'Doping in other sports' I thought it fit in with the general flow


----------



## HF2300 (20 Jul 2016)

Those pesky Russians again:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/18/wada-report-russia-sochi-winter-olympics

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/18/russia-banned-rio-olympics-state-sponsored-doping

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/19/russia-olympics-ioc-anti-doping-exclude-athletes-rio

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/19/russia-athletics-drugs-scandal-olympics-rio

and BBC's 'Horizon' on the health effects of doping, particularly in amateur sport:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07ll97c


----------



## HF2300 (21 Jul 2016)

The cocktail of poison and brandy that led to Olympic gold:

https://www.theguardian.com/science...nd-brandy-that-led-to-olympic-gold-strychnine


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2016)

CAS hsve ipheld the Russian Track and field ban, Good.


----------



## SWSteve (21 Jul 2016)

Sorry, but why were Russian authorisities only doping track and field athletes, if I was cheating to win, I would be targeting the other disciplines also


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Sorry, but why were Russian authorisities only doping track and field athletes, if I was cheating to win, I would be targeting the other disciplines also


They may be banned entirely if the IOC have the balls or the legality
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/36834090


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> CAS hsve ipheld the Russian Track and field ban, Good.


Did you see the IAAF statement which said something along the lines of it being a "good thing" as all athletes were now assured of a level playing field. Bad Russians. Very naughty.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Did you see the IAAF statement which said something along the lines of it being a "good thing" as all athletes were now assured of a level playing field. Bad Russians. Very naughty.


I didn't but a level playing field is pretty normal for discus...


----------



## SWSteve (21 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> They may be banned entirely if the IOC have the balls or the legality
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/36834090



So, that won't happen then.


----------



## SWSteve (21 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Did you see the IAAF statement which said something along the lines of it being a "good thing" as all athletes were now assured of a level playing field. Bad Russians. Very naughty.



Good job the only dopers are Russian


----------



## SWSteve (21 Jul 2016)

User said:


> they most probably have.............




That's the point I was making


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Good job the only dopers are Russian


I am hoping sports fans everywhere are rejoicing


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2016)

Kenya should be banned from T&F too


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (21 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> The cocktail of poison and brandy that led to Olympic gold:
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/science...nd-brandy-that-led-to-olympic-gold-strychnine


I'm waiting for Strychnine Come Dancing. No, praying....


----------



## psmiffy (22 Jul 2016)

Another 45 failures from the retests - 98 now in total - be interesting to see who they are and what they failed on if and when a list gets published


----------



## Buddfox (24 Jul 2016)

No total Olympic ban for Russia...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2016)

Buddfox said:


> No total Olympic ban for Russia...


Quite a strange decision; not all Russians banned, but any Russian with a previous ban for doping is excluded. Whereas competitors from other countries with a previous doping ban are not excluded.


----------



## Buddfox (24 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Quite a strange decision; not all Russians banned, but any Russian with a previous ban for doping is excluded. Whereas competitors from other countries with a previous doping ban are not excluded.



Including the initial whistleblower... not much incentive for others to come forwards


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Quite a strange decision; not all Russians banned, but any Russian with a previous ban for doping is excluded. Whereas competitors from other countries with a previous doping ban are not excluded.



https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/24/russia-team-escape-blanket-ban-ioc-rio-olympic-games

Have to satisfy their own federation they're clean. Federations can't take absence of a positive test as evidence they're clean.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (24 Jul 2016)

IOC pass the buck, I wonder what they were passed? As corrupt as FIFA.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/24/russia-team-escape-blanket-ban-ioc-rio-olympic-games
> 
> Have to satisfy their own federation they're clean. Federations can't take absence of a positive test as evidence they're clean.


We'll have the situation in the cycling that Zakarin will not be there as he has a previous doping ban and is Russian, whilst Valverde will be. And Stevic, who initially got a life ban which was changed to 2 years after appeal. And Pourseyedi. And Caruso. I could probably find many more if I could be arsed checking all the teams...


----------



## Bollo (24 Jul 2016)

They've just had a very unhappy David Walsh on BBC 5 Live. It's worth a listen. He's certainly off the IOC's Christmas card list.


----------



## HF2300 (25 Jul 2016)

Can anti-doping bodies maintain their integrity?

https://www.theguardian.com/science...r-is-troubling?CMP=twt_a-science_b-gdnscience


----------



## HF2300 (29 Jul 2016)

6 cyclists won't be at the Olympics, while Zhukov says Russia will field their cleanest team ever:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/28/russian-olympic-chief-cleanest-rio-doping

Jeanette Kwakye welcomes the ban and criticises Russia's athlete production line:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/22/ban-russian-atheletes-rio-olympics

...while federations fear damages claims because of the IOC's fudge:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...s-fear-damage-claims-russia-olympic-games-ban


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (31 Jul 2016)

This is becoming even more of a joke, an IOC panel:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/36934760


----------



## smutchin (31 Jul 2016)

"Spanish IOC member Juan Antonio Samaranch Jr, son of the ex-IOC president of the same name."


----------



## SWSteve (31 Jul 2016)

So, are we just accepting the fact that the IOC are happy with doping, and positive tests at their events, provided it doesn't get in the way of the sponsors messages?


----------



## Foghat (31 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> "Spanish IOC member Juan Antonio Samaranch Jr, son of the *ex-IOC president* of the same name."



ex-IOC president and KGB puppet, of course.

If the IOC overturns any federation's ban(s), then we have the answer.


----------



## HF2300 (31 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> "Spanish IOC member Juan Antonio Samaranch Jr, son of the ex-IOC president of the same name."



Yes, spotted that and thought the same.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (31 Jul 2016)

At least the weightlifting federation has banned Russians from competing in the 'lympics, that should see a clean event then...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Aug 2016)

IOC delay naming athletes caught doping in 2008 and 2012 until after 2016 Games
http://www.insidethegames.biz/artic...sts-until-after-rio-2016#.V57uq9PWcaM.twitter


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Aug 2016)

This raid in June
http://www.runnersworld.com/perform...ased-runner-describes-his-role-in-doping-raid

has a "happy ending" for the athletes as no direct link found
http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2016/07/28/actualidad/1469701234_774599.html


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Aug 2016)

And if you don't know who Jama Aden is, here he is pointing to someone


----------



## rich p (2 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> This raid in June
> http://www.runnersworld.com/perform...ased-runner-describes-his-role-in-doping-raid
> 
> has a "happy ending" for the athletes as no direct link found
> http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2016/07/28/actualidad/1469701234_774599.html


That stinks.


----------



## albion (2 Aug 2016)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/36955995

I can accept sportpersons erroring but surely, like when a golfer has to accept punishment for signing his card wrong, you have to take the sanction otherwise the system fails.


----------



## HF2300 (3 Aug 2016)

albion said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/36955995
> 
> I can accept sportpersons erroring but surely, like when a golfer has to accept punishment for signing his card wrong, you have to take the sanction otherwise the system fails.



Being discussed ad infinitum in the 'doping gits' thread.


----------



## rich p (3 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Being discussed ad infinitum in the 'doping gits' thread.


Well, the tour's over so we need something to bang on about


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Aug 2016)

"In a blistering public critique on the eve of the Olympics, the former chief investigator for the World Anti-Doping Agency claims his efforts to investigate Russian doping were repeatedly delayed by WADA’s president, who preferred to privately settle matters with Russian officials.

Jack Robertson, who left the agency in January, said he was forced to leak information to the media in order to pressure WADA president Sir Craig Reedie to act and, even then, he says, the agency sat on credible allegations that suggested Russian doping extended far beyond track and field."

https://www.propublica.org/article/...ial&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1470279227


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Aug 2016)

First 'lympics doping positive reported - Greek athlete, how Olympian of them.


----------



## HF2300 (5 Aug 2016)

Greek Olympic athlete tested positive and been sent home, apparently. No names yet.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> First 'lympics doping positive reported - Greek athlete, how Olympian of them.





HF2300 said:


> Greek Olympic athlete tested positive and been sent home, apparently. No names yet.



You watching Clare Balding as well?


----------



## SWSteve (5 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> You watching Clare Balding as well?




I thought she still has a full head of hair


----------



## Crackle (5 Aug 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> I thought she still has a full head of hair


Taxi!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Aug 2016)

No doping controls in Brazil between 1 - 24 July, allegedly due to pressure from Ministry of Sport and National Olympic C'ttee...
http://www.lequipe.fr/Tous-sports/A.../713511?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Aug 2016)

I don't think he'll have long to wait before he comes into action...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Aug 2016)

Greece


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Aug 2016)

An Irish boxer


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Aug 2016)

Tomorrow's Sunday Times: Kenyan Olympic boss sent home after Insight secretly filmed him demanding £10k bribe to protect cheating athletes...

This chap is going to be very busy!


----------



## PaulB (7 Aug 2016)

The British women's sevens team have just been implicated in the drugs scene; apparently, they beat the Japanese team with E's. I was so disgusted, I put my foot through the TV screen.


----------



## rich p (7 Aug 2016)

Kenyans in the frame again - quelle surprise!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/37000594


----------



## HF2300 (7 Aug 2016)

Adrian Moorhouse on Chinese swimmer Sun Yang:

"He's been taking Meldonium for a heart problem - now it's been banned, all of a sudden he hasn't got a heart problem and he's still here"


----------



## HF2300 (7 Aug 2016)

IPC confirm they won't allow any Russian athletes in the Paralympics.


----------



## HF2300 (8 Aug 2016)

And now brain doping?

http://spectrum.ieee.org/the-human-...ng-their-brains-to-improve-sports-performance


----------



## Dogtrousers (8 Aug 2016)

User said:


> Michael O’Reilly


Kimmage is a bit bonkers

http://m.independent.ie/sport/rio-2...-cant-be-angry-if-you-dont-care-34944568.html


----------



## Bollo (8 Aug 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Kimmage is a bit bonkers
> 
> http://m.independent.ie/sport/rio-2...-cant-be-angry-if-you-dont-care-34944568.html


I bet he is angry though. It's just a thin veneer of ennui that hides a whole shoot-storm of rage.


----------



## Dogtrousers (8 Aug 2016)

Bollo said:


> I bet he is angry though. It's just a thin veneer of ennui that hides a whole shoot-storm of rage.


I got as far as the bit about the tattoo ...


----------



## Bollo (9 Aug 2016)

Kosovan judo player


----------



## HF2300 (9 Aug 2016)

Scientifc American's quick guide to doping:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-scientific-american-guide-to-cheating-in-the-olympics


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (10 Aug 2016)

Another "Whereabouts" 3-time-misser
http://www.elperiodico.com/es/notic...limpicos-mechaal-controles-antidopaje-5310155

Glad to see the report highlights that "The method for communication is very easy."


----------



## Bollo (10 Aug 2016)

Not doping as such but it's been a quiet day. Dutch gymnast with previous for recreational use goes on an unauthorised lash.

It's not deserving of a Donald, more this....


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (11 Aug 2016)

Bollo said:


> Not doping as such but it's been a quiet day. Dutch gymnast with previous for recreational use goes on an unauthorised lash.


Officials who claim they had "no other choice" are complete nobbers.


----------



## Bollo (11 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> Officials who claim they had "no other choice" are complete nobbers.


Their hands may even have been tied. They were unlikely to send anyone home who stood a chance of a medal.


----------



## Dogtrousers (11 Aug 2016)

@Bollo That "like" was for including a picture of one of my great heroes, Ren Hoek


----------



## Buddfox (11 Aug 2016)

From the BBC live coverage:

"A Kenyan athletics coach has been sent home from Rio after allegedly posing as an athlete and giving a urine sample.

Kenya said sprint coach John Anzrah "presented himself as an athlete" and "even signed the documents" for the doping test.

"We cannot tolerate such behaviour," said Kip Keino, chairman of the National Olympic Committee of Kenya.

Anzrah is the second Kenyan official to be sent home over doping issues after track and field manager Michael Rotich."


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Aug 2016)

Buddfox said:


> "We cannot tolerate such behaviour," said Kip Keino, chairman of the National Olympic Committee of Kenya.



Kenya


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Aug 2016)

Buddfox said:


> A Kenyan athletics coach has been sent home from Rio after allegedly posing as an athlete and giving a urine sample.


And the athlete he posed as was 800-meter runner Ferguson Rotich, so watch out for him being on fire in heat 1 at 2.10pm today...


----------



## HF2300 (12 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> And the athlete he posed as was 800-meter runner Ferguson Rotich, so watch out for him being on fire in heat 1 at 2.10pm today...



He might deserve punishment for skipping the test, but surely burning him is a bit extreme?


----------



## HF2300 (12 Aug 2016)

Chen Xinyi






Danekova


----------



## Flying_Monkey (12 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> And the athlete he posed as was 800-meter runner Ferguson Rotich, so watch out for him being on fire in heat 1 at 2.10pm today...



Not quite. Apparently he didn't pose as the runner in order to take a drug test, he borrowed his ID to get into the athletes' village (not all coaches and staff have been allowed full access). While he was there, he (well, Rotich) was tagged for a random test. Instead of just admitting he wasn't Rotich, he took the test... but it's obvious he isn't Rotich.


----------



## Buddfox (12 Aug 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Not quite. Apparently he didn't pose as the runner in order to take a drug test, he borrowed his ID to get into the athletes' village (not all coaches and staff have been allowed full access). While he was there, he (well, Rotich) was tagged for a random test. Instead of just admitting he wasn't Rotich, he took the test... but it's obvious he isn't Rotich.



And Rotich took the test as soon as he found out, which was apparently only a few hours later. It still speaks to the attitude and approach that Kenya takes to doping control in general though. He clearly thought this was acceptable, and given he's a coach, the mind boggles.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Aug 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Not quite. Apparently he didn't pose as the runner in order to take a drug test, he borrowed his ID to get into the athletes' village (not all coaches and staff have been allowed full access). While he was there, he (well, Rotich) was tagged for a random test. Instead of just admitting he wasn't Rotich, he took the test... but it's obvious he isn't Rotich.





Buddfox said:


> And Rotich took the test as soon as he found out, which was apparently only a few hours later. It still speaks to the attitude and approach that Kenya takes to doping control in general though. He clearly thought this was acceptable, and given he's a coach, the mind boggles.



Aye, right...


----------



## rich p (12 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> Aye, right...


Are you implying that a cynic might think darker thoughts?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (12 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> Aye, right...



Unless you think the Kenyan coach was psychic - i.e. he could have anticipated a random test for a particular athlete, there's no particular reason to be suspicious. As many reporters have pointed out, there's a lot of free stuff (especially food and drink) in the Athlete's Village. Those who don't have accreditation have all kinds of rather more mundane reasons for wanting to get in for a while.


----------



## Dogtrousers (12 Aug 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Unless you think the Kenyan coach was psychic - i.e. he could have anticipated a random test for a particular athlete, there's no particular reason to be suspicious. As many reporters have pointed out, there's a lot of free stuff (especially food and drink) in the Athlete's Village. Those who don't have accreditation have all kinds of rather more mundane reasons for wanting to get in for a while.


WHat baffles me is why he went along with the test though. Why not say "you got me bang to rights ... I was blagging some free oatcakes" Seemingly he owned up soon afterwards, and the team sent the athlete.

I don't find it so much suspicious as just a bit odd. But there's nowt as queer as folk I suppose.

It does suggest a bit of a poor attitude towards dope testing in the Kenyan camp.


----------



## Dogtrousers (12 Aug 2016)

Educate me on the meme. Who's the finger pointing bloke in the raincoat whose picture is being used to indicate accusation?

Is his name Jack Hughes?


----------



## Chromatic (12 Aug 2016)

It's Donald Sutherland. I don't know what film it is from or the character he's playing.


----------



## smutchin (12 Aug 2016)

Chromatic said:


> It's Donald Sutherland. I don't know what film it is from or the character he's playing.



Invasion of the Bodysnatchers

Great film. That pic is a bit of a spoiler though as it's from the closing scene.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (12 Aug 2016)

Here's the clip:


----------



## Flying_Monkey (12 Aug 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> WHat baffles me is why he went along with the test though. Why not say "you got me bang to rights ... I was blagging some free oatcakes" Seemingly he owned up soon afterwards, and the team sent the athlete.
> 
> I don't find it so much suspicious as just a bit odd. But there's nowt as queer as folk I suppose.
> 
> It does suggest a bit of a poor attitude towards dope testing in the Kenyan camp.



I think it's indicatative of a culture with an entirely different attitude to law and government. Rules are made to be got around. And everything is corrupt, so you just do what seems to work at the time.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> And the athlete he posed as was 800-meter runner Ferguson Rotich, so watch out for him being on fire in heat 1 at 2.10pm today...


He was 2nd in his heat and qualified for the next round.

I'm going to see if he's on twitter and see if he'll send me his accreditation after the games finish


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Aug 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I think it's indicatative of a culture with an entirely different attitude to law and government. Rules are made to be got around. And everything is corrupt, so you just do what seems to work at the time.


Yep, like doping.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Aug 2016)

China




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/athletic...rds-blow-as-wang-junxia-admits-being-part-of/


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Aug 2016)

I see the usual BBC athletic panel of head-buried-in-sand pundits has been assembled; I am counting the minutes until one of them says "I love Seb"


----------



## Supersuperleeds (12 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> China
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's from February


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Aug 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> That's from February


I know.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (12 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> Yep, like doping.



You're being a bit of a twit now.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Aug 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> You're being a bit of a twit now.



I am only agreeing with you...



Flying_Monkey said:


> I think it's indicatative of a culture with an entirely different attitude to law and government. Rules are made to be got around. And *everything is corrupt, so you just do what seems to work at the time*.


----------



## rich p (13 Aug 2016)

Anyone who doesn't think that Kenyan (and probably Ethiopian) athletes aren't riddled with dopers are monumentally naive.


----------



## rich p (13 Aug 2016)

The women's 10,000m race was won beating a dirty world record by 14 seconds that has stood since 1993 by a proven doper.
The second 5k would have been a world record in its own right.
Hmmmm.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> The women's 10,000m race was won beating a dirty world record by 14 seconds that has stood since 1993 by a proven doper.
> The second 5k would have been a world record in its own right.
> Hmmmm.


C'mon now rich, she'd run the distance once before on the track, that's plenty experience to be turning up and smashing the world record and becoming 'lympic champion in her 2nd race. I do it all the time...


----------



## Crackle (13 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> The women's 10,000m race was won beating a dirty world record by 14 seconds that has stood since 1993 by a proven doper.
> The second 5k would have been a world record in its own right.
> Hmmmm.


Eyebrows raised eh and still the Beeb report it straight.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> Eyebrows raised eh and still the Beeb report it straight.


The BBC pundits are an absolute joke. Deniers all. Celebrating the new record and the new 'lympic champion yesterday without any hint of suspicion was sickening. They need to grow up and start naming doping rather than fudging round it. "Shrouded in controversy" seems to be their way of saying "dodgy dopers"


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Aug 2016)

Stepanova's WADA account hacked
http://in.reuters.com/article/us-olympics-rio-doping-stepanova-idINKCN10O0OU


----------



## smutchin (13 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> Stepanova's WADA account hacked
> http://in.reuters.com/article/us-olympics-rio-doping-stepanova-idINKCN10O0OU



I hope she's not planning on dinner at Itsu any time soon.


----------



## Crackle (13 Aug 2016)

smutchin said:


> I hope she's not planning on dinner at Itsu any time soon.


Avoid the green tea.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Aug 2016)

If I was her I'd be fecking off quicksmart to somewhere far far away and never answering the door or going out again!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Aug 2016)

I wonder if BBC coverage will mention any hint of "MoBot" and doping?


----------



## HF2300 (13 Aug 2016)

Klishina


----------



## HF2300 (13 Aug 2016)

Da Silva Ramos








Zielinski brothers






(btw - weightlifters testing positive for steroids? Who'd have thought it.)


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Da Silva Ramos



...is a cyclist.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Aug 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> ...is a cyclist.



Is indeed, and rode in the Olympic road race (though DNF'd) - but the Zielinski brothers are Polish weightlifters and tested positive for Nandrolone.


----------



## rich p (14 Aug 2016)

The hubris of the Russians is almost beyond belief. Do they have no sense of shame?
To blame their disgrace on Macchiavellian political shenanigans (that's a phrase I don't often use!) is more than irritating.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> The hubris of the Russians is almost beyond belief. Do they have no sense of shame?
> To blame their disgrace on Macchiavellian political shenanigans (that's a phrase I don't often use!) is more than irritating.



I thought the unrepentant ex-doper Zabelinskaya making lofty proclamations after the women's RR about Russia showing the world they could win clean was a touch ironic, not to say hypocritical.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Aug 2016)

My 'lympic medal table looks considerably different to the official one...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Is indeed, and rode in the Olympic road race (though DNF'd) - but the Zielinski brothers are Polish weightlifters and tested positive for Nandrolone.



Just reminding people that this is the Doping in Other Sports thread. For our own, there is the Doping Git thread...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Aug 2016)

Go on them BBC, here's another chance to mention doping and Kenya...

No? Oh well, just say "well done" and don't bother.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> Go on them BBC, here's another chance to mention doping and Kenya...
> 
> No? Oh well, just say "well done" and don't bother.


See the fat bloke in this picture, he's currently on bail for doping athletes - and part of the Kenyan team with the marathoners






This is him:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-36797823


----------



## HF2300 (14 Aug 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Just reminding people that this is the Doping in Other Sports thread. For our own, there is the Doping Git thread...



Oops. Sorry I hurt your thread, mister.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (15 Aug 2016)

I don't want to be overly suspicious, but let's just say that the men's 400m final yesterday was verging on the completely unbelievable.


----------



## smutchin (15 Aug 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I don't want to be overly suspicious, but let's just say that the men's 400m final yesterday was verging on the completely unbelievable.



I'm watching the women's 3,000m steeplechase now. The leading Kenyan/Bahrain runner has left the whole field far, far behind.


----------



## smutchin (15 Aug 2016)

And she eased off in the final straight so as not to beat the world record too easily!


----------



## brommers (15 Aug 2016)

Well done Bolt for being the only Jamaican or American sprinter (allegedly) never to have taken drugs


----------



## HF2300 (15 Aug 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I don't want to be overly suspicious, but let's just say that the men's 400m final yesterday was verging on the completely unbelievable.



Didn't see that, so had to go and check. Seems you're not the only one; people in the Guardian report using words like incredible, unbelievable, and even ridiculous:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/14/wayde-van-niekerk-olympic-gold-400m-world-record

What did Johnson say about it?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> What did Johnson say about it?



He was very gracious. He's like that. 

The other view, of course, is that it has just been a fallow period for the 400m since Johnson's record. So when someone finally comes along who's a lot better, of course the record is smashed. That's not more intrinsically suspicious that the record being beaten by a little every year or so.


----------



## fimm (16 Aug 2016)

The quote I heard from Johnson was nothing to do with doping etc but was about how he felt having had the world record he'd held for so long beaten - which was that he doesn't feel he's "lost" anything, because for him the moment when all his work and training paid off and he broke the record is what is important to him and those memories can't be taken from him - whenever the record had subsequently been broken.


----------



## smutchin (18 Aug 2016)

Has anyone ever raised any queries about the performances of the Brownlee brothers?

The thing that got me wondering about it was a comment elsewhere that their splits for the run would be competitive in a standalone Olympic 10km race (and I remember there was talk of Alistair possibly entering the 10km race in 2012). It's quite incredible that they're able to run that fast after a swim and a bike ride. Some might take that as a red flag, and yet I've never heard the slightest hint of suspicion being expressed about them. Or maybe it's all perfectly normal from a physiological perspective? I just don't know.

They do seem to be hugely popular within the sport in a way that the track cyclists aren't - the French competitor was being effusive about them in his post-race interview. Perhaps they're too nice for anyone to point the finger at them!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Aug 2016)

smutchin said:


> Has anyone ever raised any queries about the performances of the Brownlee brothers?
> 
> The thing that got me wondering about it was a comment elsewhere that their splits for the run would be competitive in a standalone Olympic 10km race (and I remember there was talk of Alistair possibly entering the 10km race in 2012). It's quite incredible that they're able to run that fast after a swim and a bike ride. Some might take that as a red flag, and yet I've never heard the slightest hint of suspicion being expressed about them. Or maybe it's all perfectly normal from a physiological perspective? I just don't know.
> 
> They do seem to be hugely popular within the sport in a way that the track cyclists aren't - the French competitor was being effusive about them in his post-race interview. Perhaps they're too nice for anyone to point the finger at them!



We breed 'em tough in Yorkshire.


----------



## smutchin (18 Aug 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> We breed 'em tough in Yorkshire.



They are seriously tough cookies. I'm constantly amazed at their capacity to keep going with what must be seriously burning legs. I've done a couple of triathlons myself and I know it frikkin' hurts!


----------



## brommers (18 Aug 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> He was very gracious. He's like that.
> 
> The other view, of course, is that it has just been a fallow period for the 400m since Johnson's record. So when someone finally comes along who's a lot better, of course the record is smashed. That's not more intrinsically suspicious that the record being beaten by a little every year or so.





fimm said:


> The quote I heard from Johnson was nothing to do with doping etc but was about how he felt having had the world record he'd held for so long beaten - which was that he doesn't feel he's "lost" anything, because for him the moment when all his work and training paid off and he broke the record is what is important to him and those memories can't be taken from him - whenever the record had subsequently been broken.


What about his times. Did anyone ever query them?


----------



## marinyork (19 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> What about his times. Did anyone ever query them?



Wasn't seen suspicious at the time (Michael Johnson). Johnson actually had a fair bit of bad luck and set backs in his olympic career, it's just forgotten now.

The thing I've found odd is his idolisation of Carl Lewis (over many years) contrasted with his views said many times on doping bans (over many years). Maybe he doesn't want to upset the apple cart or afraid of getting sued, I don't know. He was asked again recently for his list of greatest olympians and guess what Carl Lewis appeared in it!


----------



## rich p (19 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> What about his times. Did anyone ever query them?


It's a reasonable point that if Johnson could do it clean all those years ago, then someone else could come along and do the same. 
I guess we've all become more cynical and suspicious lately


----------



## HF2300 (21 Aug 2016)

Izzat Artykov







Strychnine, ffs.

Belarus






Kazakhstan






Wrestling






All the same link, https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/18/kyrgyzstan-weightlifter-izzat-artykov-doping-offence


----------



## rich p (21 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Izzat Artykov
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Strychnine Come Doping?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Aug 2016)

The 'lympics dope testing sounds a shambles
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics...s-anti-doping-branded-worst-in-games-history/


----------



## HF2300 (17 Sep 2016)

#IsItOK that I'm slightly cynical about the Chinese dominance at the Paralympics when I'm not about Paralympics GB's massive haul?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (28 Oct 2016)

The 'lympics. A spike in "finals week", whoda thunk it...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Nov 2016)

"Fast forward to the 1984 Los Angeles Summer Games. IAAF head honcho Nebiolo, under whom Cassell served as vice president, informed his No. 2 “about the decision he and Samaranch had made about capping the number of positive (drug) tests in L.A. at a dozen,” Cassell recounted in his memoir. “He said they had done it ‘to protect the Olympics and the USA’ so there would be no scandal.”..."
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/...kyo-games-set-cassell-life-path/#.WB9jyI1vhjo


----------



## HF2300 (7 Nov 2016)

Marmion said:


> "Fast forward to the 1984 Los Angeles Summer Games ... “He said they had done it ‘to protect the Olympics and the USA’ so there would be no scandal.”



Seem to be a lot of mentions of dodgy goings on, but it's very light on whether he did anything about it. Cassell - a lifetime in sports corruption?


----------



## smutchin (9 Nov 2016)

I watched Match of the Day 2 on Sunday evening. I don't usually pay much attention to the post-match analysis because it's always the same old tired rubbish (was it or wasn't it a penalty? who cares?), but one brief exchange in the discussion following the Man Utd vs Swansea game made me sit up and take notice. I have transcribed the interesting bit, but if you want to watch it for yourself, it's here: http://bbc.in/2edQwB3 - it starts at about 57 minutes in...

*Mark Chapman:* No Chris Smalling. Before the game, Mourinho said he doesn’t feel he can play 100% with his pain, and he also said that Luke Shaw told him on the morning that he couldn’t play. After the game, he said, ‘In every sport they play at the highest level, how many times do you play when you are not 100%? I have a friend who is a big tennis player, he remembers more the times he played with pain than the times he played without pain. That is what I mean. It is a cultural thing for some and that’s not my culture.’

*Alan Shearer:* Well, in my experience, very very rarely are you ever 100% fit when you go out onto a football pitch and play, whether you have to take anti-inflammatories to get out and play or what. But very rarely are you 100% fit.

*MC:* Is that a message to some to toughen up?

*Danny Murphy:* I’m surprised at Smalling because obviously playing with him, he was a tough lad. He must be in some trouble but that is a message from Mourinho, that doesn’t sound good. I’m with Al. I physically wouldn’t be able to get about if I didn’t…

*AS:* The one thing I would say is that when he was at Chelsea the first time, he had warriors – Drogba, Terry, Lampard, Makelele, Cech, all these guys that you would never ever question anything like that. And he is becoming more and more vocal, Mourinho, in actually digging his players out in public and that was very rare in his first time at Chelsea. So I think yes, the game has moved on, even from his first time, players are paid a hell of a lot more money, they don’t have to put themselves under pressure and stress to go out and play and he might have to face that fact.

It's a "cultural thing", eh? Shame that Shearer interrupted Murphy before he had a chance to say what it is that he needed to do to be physically able to get about.

Follow-up story here: http://bbc.in/2fTa539


----------



## SWSteve (9 Nov 2016)

smutchin said:


> I watched Match of the Day 2 on Sunday evening. I don't usually pay much attention to the post-match analysis because it's always the same old tired rubbish (was it or wasn't it a penalty? who cares?), but one brief exchange in the discussion following the Man Utd vs Swansea game made me sit up and take notice. I have transcribed the interesting bit, but if you want to watch it for yourself, it's here: http://bbc.in/2edQwB3 - it starts at about 57 minutes in...
> 
> *Mark Chapman:* No Chris Smalling. Before the game, Mourinho said he doesn’t feel he can play 100% with his pain, and he also said that Luke Shaw told him on the morning that he couldn’t play. After the game, he said, ‘In every sport they play at the highest level, how many times do you play when you are not 100%? I have a friend who is a big tennis player, he remembers more the times he played with pain than the times he played without pain. That is what I mean. It is a cultural thing for some and that’s not my culture.’
> 
> ...




It's interesting this, as a teenager I never thought anything of footballers taking Steroid injections for any form of injury, so they could 'play through the pain'. Now I can understand, this is a system that's wide open for abuse. The fact on early 'Football Manager' games, you were presented the opportunity of getting a player to have a steroid injection/whatever to get them through that next game, where it was no issue is troublesome. 

I genuinely don't understand how players can cover 10km in essentially a series of sprints at the performance level they compete, whilst existing on bread and water


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (10 Nov 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> It's interesting this, as a teenager I never thought anything of footballers taking Steroid injections for any form of injury, so they could 'play through the pain'. Now I can understand, this is a system that's wide open for abuse. The fact on early 'Football Manager' games, you were presented the opportunity of getting a player to have a steroid injection/whatever to get them through that next game, where it was no issue is troublesome.
> 
> I genuinely don't understand how players can cover 10km in essentially a series of sprints at the performance level they compete, whilst existing on bread and water


Game of skill, innit


----------



## psmiffy (24 Nov 2016)

I looked at the table and thought "just under 6000 tests by UK is stupidly low" then I looked at the numbers for China, USA and Russia


----------



## oldroadman (25 Nov 2016)

smutchin said:


> I watched Match of the Day 2 on Sunday evening. I don't usually pay much attention to the post-match analysis because it's always the same old tired rubbish (was it or wasn't it a penalty? who cares?), but one brief exchange in the discussion following the Man Utd vs Swansea game made me sit up and take notice. I have transcribed the interesting bit, but if you want to watch it for yourself, it's here: http://bbc.in/2edQwB3 - it starts at about 57 minutes in...
> 
> *Mark Chapman:* No Chris Smalling. Before the game, Mourinho said he doesn’t feel he can play 100% with his pain, and he also said that Luke Shaw told him on the morning that he couldn’t play. After the game, he said, ‘In every sport they play at the highest level, how many times do you play when you are not 100%? I have a friend who is a big tennis player, he remembers more the times he played with pain than the times he played without pain. That is what I mean. It is a cultural thing for some and that’s not my culture.’
> 
> ...


What they don't want to talk about (or maybe don't consider) is the long term damage caused by playing on through injury when the pain - nature's way of telling you to stop - is expunged by applications of chemicals. Having met a few ex-players of ball sports, there are enough having trouble walking properly to convince me that the "play through the pain/cortisone injection" route is at the least very unwise.


----------



## rich p (26 Nov 2016)

Looks like there's more Lucky Bears hacking stuff to come out with rumours of GB athletes having adverse findings suppressed by the IAAF. 
Craig Reedie in the frame again.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (26 Nov 2016)

rich p said:


> Looks like there's more Lucky Bears hacking stuff to come out with rumours of GB athletes having adverse findings suppressed by the IAAF.
> Craig Reedie in the frame again.


Any mention of Lord Seb of Bluster?


----------



## rich p (26 Nov 2016)

Marmion said:


> Any mention of Lord Seb of Bluster?


He's so thick I'm inclined to believe he just didn't notice.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (27 Dec 2016)

Russia eventually admit they are doping twats
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/27/sports/olympics/russia-doping.html?_r=1


----------



## psmiffy (28 Dec 2016)

Marmion said:


> Russia eventually admit they are doping twats
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/27/sports/olympics/russia-doping.html?_r=1



*Russian anti-doping agency denies admitting to existence of doping programme*


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (28 Dec 2016)

psmiffy said:


> *Russian anti-doping agency denies admitting to existence of doping programme*


They seem confused...


----------



## oldroadman (28 Dec 2016)

Brains must be addled from all the substances they have (allegedly) been in contact with!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Jan 2017)

I am struggling to get my head round this one; Paula Radcliffe to be involved in deciding which European athletics records should be erased due to strong suspicions of doping...

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e3b43e2e-d835-11e6-b069-6105840fb14c


----------



## coldash (12 Jan 2017)

Marmion said:


> I am struggling to get my head round this one; Paula Radcliffe to be involved in deciding which European athletics records should be erased due to strong suspicions of doping...
> 
> http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e3b43e2e-d835-11e6-b069-6105840fb14c


I agree on a number of levels. She is hardly independent and could gain some retrospective glory points from eliminating rivals from the records. I have yet to see what scientific qualifications she has to make any judgment. I'm not sure her alleged anomalies were explained (happy to be corrected on this) 

... and if it is just "suspicions", that looks like more of a witch hunt with no evidence and insufficient IMV to justify any sanctions

..... or it could be misrepresented


----------



## 400bhp (12 Jan 2017)

Marmion said:


> I am struggling to get my head round this one; Paula Radcliffe to be involved in deciding which European athletics records should be erased due to strong suspicions of doping...
> 
> http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e3b43e2e-d835-11e6-b069-6105840fb14c



I can't read the whole story but what I can see doesn't say exactly what her role will be. It could be advisory rather than decision maker.


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## themosquitoking (12 Jan 2017)

400bhp said:


> I can't read the whole story but what I can see doesn't say exactly what her role will be. It could be advisory rather than decision maker.


Either way it makes me squirm a bit.


----------



## oldroadman (12 Jan 2017)

Marmion said:


> I am struggling to get my head round this one; Paula Radcliffe to be involved in deciding which European athletics records should be erased due to strong suspicions of doping...
> 
> http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e3b43e2e-d835-11e6-b069-6105840fb14c


_Interesting. So in athletics "strong suspicion" with advice from "Ms Clean" may be enough to retrospectively alter results of major races? See you in court! In fact it would probably not get to court as they tend to work on proof not the opinions of people involved in a sport that may or may not have their own reasons for wanting things amended._


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## 400bhp (12 Jan 2017)

oldroadman said:


> _Interesting. So in athletics "strong suspicion" with advice from "Ms Clean" may be enough to retrospectively alter results of major races? See you in court! In fact it would probably not get to court as they tend to work on proof not the opinions of people involved in a sport that may or may not have their own reasons for wanting things amended._


It's records not races


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## oldroadman (13 Jan 2017)

400bhp said:


> It's records not races


Ah, yes, quite right, my mistake. The same thing applies though, just which records are "dodgy" and which are "clean". Who decides, for instance the long jump record I think stood for years. Was the jump chemically assisted, or was it one of those days when the wind was just under the limit, the takeoff and run up speed all were perfect, and the fly through thinner air all came together? And how is anyone to judge this, as an example.
It might be better if they just reset the clock, left all old records as historical, and started from scratch with properly tested athletes. Like, no test, no blood passport, not on ADAMS or equivalent, no record, whatever the performance.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jan 2017)

I'm sure Paula will sort it all oot


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## rich p (13 Jan 2017)

I assume that they're talking about the old Eastern bloc records which are unbeatable, incredible and even some of the athletes have admitted they were subject to state sponsored doping from an early age.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jan 2017)

rich p said:


> I assume that they're talking about the old Eastern bloc records which are unbeatable, incredible and even some of the athletes have admitted they were subject to state sponsored doping from an early age.


They could employ me to review those. Then give me some more moolah to review Radcliffe's history.


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## vickster (25 Jan 2017)

Apparently usain bolt has just lost on of his golds, thanks to a team mate testing positive


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## SWSteve (26 Jan 2017)

vickster said:


> Apparently usain bolt has just lost on of his golds, thanks to a team mate testing positive



Cue
"How dare they take that gold away from Bolt. He has done nothing wrong, and should be given an extra gold for dealing with these cheats"


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## vickster (26 Jan 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Cue
> "How dare they take that gold away from Bolt. He has done nothing wrong, and should be given an extra gold for dealing with these cheats"


Discussed on Beeb last night. From an interview he gave last year, it sounded like he half expected it, must've had suspicions


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## HF2300 (26 Jan 2017)

vickster said:


> Discussed on Beeb last night. From an interview he gave last year, it sounded like he half expected it, must've had suspicions



I understood this had been brewing for a while following a positive (re?)test, I seem to remember it being talked about as a possibility last year.


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## mr messy (26 Jan 2017)

It seems like Bolt is just about the only Jamaican sprinter not to have had a doping ban


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## rich p (26 Jan 2017)

The 6 fastest 100m athletes have all been achieved by dopers, bar Bolt's.
Gay, Blake, Powell, Gatlin, Carter, Bolt


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## oldroadman (26 Jan 2017)

rich p said:


> The 6 fastest 100m athletes have all been achieved by dopers, bar Bolt's.
> Gay, Blake, Powell, Gatlin, Carter, Bolt


How interesting. But not surprising. How many more will get caught if old samples are analysed?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (26 Jan 2017)

rich p said:


> The 6 fastest 100m athletes have all been achieved by dopers, bar Bolt's.
> Gay, Blake, Powell, Gatlin, Carter, Bolt





oldroadman said:


> How interesting. But not surprising. How many more will get caught if old samples are analysed?


Richard Moore's book, The Bolt Supremacy, is a good* exploration - he seems to be critical/sceptical but accepting; and the coaches and athletes perspectives are very interesting.


*not his best imo, but still a whole load better than most other sports books


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## rich p (26 Jan 2017)

oldroadman said:


> How interesting. But not surprising. How many more will get caught if old samples are analysed?


I'm guessing that they've only kept Olympic samples and most of them will have been retested by now. 
@Marmion , I still keep the faith that Bolt is clean. It's possible, given that Michael Johnson was a similar freak of nature being clean and yet better than the dopers. 
I do hope I'm right.


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## Flying_Monkey (27 Jan 2017)

I tend to believe in Michael Johnson, and partly that's because of his extraordinary running style and outsider status - but then I sometimes wonder if it's partly because he's an articulate and funny BBC commentator... and he just can't be a wrong 'un, can he?


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## HF2300 (27 Jan 2017)

rich p said:


> I still keep the faith that Bolt is clean. It's possible, given that Michael Johnson was a similar freak of nature.





Flying_Monkey said:


> I tend to believe in Michael Johnson, and partly that's because of his extraordinary running style and outsider status



This returns to one of the big problems with doping that the dopers - or at least the Armstrongs and Gatlins - will never get. By their very nature, outstanding performances are right on the edge of the performance envelope, as are the athletes. Nothing wrong with that, and in normal circumstances no reason to disbelieve. But by performing similarly, not by extreme physical ability but by cheating, the dopers cast doubt on the validity of all performances, legitimate or not, and thereby the legitimacy of the sport.


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## 400bhp (28 Jan 2017)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I tend to believe in Michael Johnson, and partly that's because of his extraordinary running style and outsider status - but then I sometimes wonder if it's partly because he's an articulate and funny BBC commentator... and he just can't be a wrong 'un, can he?


I believe, and to some extent hope, that Johnson and bolt are really outliers, mainly because of their physicality being different than what is/was perceived to be the correct size of athlete and running style. Bolt is huge and lanky for your typical sprinter. Johnson runs very upright and has a very efficient gait.
Perhaps for their particular physiology, they aren't that special, it's just there's not many others who are in their cohort AND have the opportunity to consider a running career.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (28 Jan 2017)

400bhp said:


> ... it's just there's not many others who are in their cohort AND have the opportunity to consider a running career.



I coulda been a contender


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## Pro Tour Punditry (31 Jan 2017)

LordSeb are lying Tory establishment twat? Surely not...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/38809210


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## mr messy (31 Jan 2017)

Marmion said:


> LordSeb are lying Tory establishment twat? Surely not...
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/38809210


Pity the beeb choose to use mislead.....


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## HF2300 (31 Jan 2017)

Slippery Seb the snake oil salesman misleading? Surely not.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (31 Jan 2017)

mr messy said:


> Pity the beeb choose to use mislead.....


They are part of the establishment...


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## oldroadman (1 Feb 2017)

For someone at the head of the highest profile Olympic sport, he's a remarkably naïve person not to be curious enough to read attachments about a subject that could bring the whole edifice (and his position) into peril. Most odd. Mr Collins MP is certainly enjoying a bit of profile himself at the moment - don't think he's looked in football and rugby yet. Which could be even more interesting.


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## SWSteve (8 Feb 2017)

I wonder if the DCMS will be looking into this as part of their investigations into doping in the UK....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...banned-failing-drug-test-west-brom-according/


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## Pro Tour Punditry (25 Feb 2017)

Mo Farah's coach has been accused of further doping violations in a leaked official report by USADA, how long can he get away with being the face of pretend mince?


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## Bobby Mhor (3 Apr 2017)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/39477302 
Interesting...


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## Flick of the Elbow (7 Apr 2017)

Another doped Kenyan endurance runner. All this guff they've been spinning these last 20 years about being 'naturally gifted' because they were born at altitude. As bad as Russia.


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## Adam4868 (7 Apr 2017)

It just about sums things up that Coe can stay in his position.The only thing he's got is arrogance.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Apr 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Another doped Kenyan endurance runner. All this guff they've been spinning these last 20 years about being 'naturally gifted' because they were born at altitude. As bad as Russia.


Olympic champion as well...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/39522434

I also spotted a story on the same page that another Kenyan had broken 4 world records. I clapped my hands at the great achievement...

There was also a pic of LordSeb on the BBC webpage above a headline stating that IAAF had been hacked by Fancy Bears. I could not be arsed to click on it as I am sure he'll have just been quoted saying some corporate crap about being concerned about the athletes confidentiality and saying the IAAF were doing everything they can to work to remedy security. Rather than saying something about the doping problem.


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## Adam4868 (7 Apr 2017)

Just yer typical Tory politician.Allways was more of a Ovett man myself.


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## Crackle (7 Apr 2017)

Marmion said:


> been quoted saying some corporate crap about being concerned about the athletes confidentiality and saying the IAAF were doing everything they can to work to remedy security


Are you sure you didn't read it.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Apr 2017)

Crackle said:


> Are you sure you didn't read it.


They could give me a job making up stock answers


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## Pro Tour Punditry (19 Apr 2017)

How long before the face of pretendy-mince is revealed as only pretendy-clean?

"The injection was made in consultation with Farah's American coach Alberto Salazar." Phew, what a relief; one would have been concerned if it hadn't been made in consultation with someone of such high repute and unblemished character...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/39627807


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## Pro Tour Punditry (1 May 2017)

What bland stock answer will LordSeb come up with this time? 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/39774233


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## Crackle (2 May 2017)

Marmion said:


> What bland stock answer will LordSeb come up with this time?
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/39774233


I think it's a fundamentally stupid idea. They could easily go through all records and expunge some on a certain criteria which they could arrive at with some thought but the idea that modern records are somehow more certain than historic ones, doesn't stand.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (2 May 2017)

Crackle said:


> I think it's a fundamentally stupid idea.


I am hoping that this is exactly what LordSeb says


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## Crackle (2 May 2017)

Marmion said:


> I am hoping that this is exactly what LordSeb says


He's not going to is he. He'll flubberblubber his way through a response.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (2 May 2017)

Crackle said:


> He's not going to is he. He'll flubberblubber his way through a response.


He's more likely to bland-response something the complete opposite of:


Crackle said:


> ...the idea that modern records are somehow more certain than historic ones, doesn't stand.



which will include reference to athletics taking a strong stance against doping and that we can all be more assured that current athletes are fine upstanding chaps and chapesses and to vote for the Tories for a safer and stronger future for athletes.


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## SWSteve (2 May 2017)

I assume the latest winner of London Marathon is completely legitimate, until they fail a test in a couple of months, and we learn they only recently started doping...


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## Pro Tour Punditry (16 Jun 2017)

Oh well, looks like Puerto is not going to reveal anything..

Don't you just love "justice"?


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## rich p (17 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> Oh well, looks like Puerto is not going to reveal anything..
> 
> Don't you just love "justice"?


Quel surpriso!
I can only speculate how much Fuentes was given to not write his autobiography kiss 'n tell


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## Pro Tour Punditry (17 Jun 2017)

rich p said:


> Quel surpriso!
> I can only speculate how much Fuentes was given to not write his autobiography kiss 'n tell


At least he comes out of it as being a complete c*nt, albeit a very rich complete c*nt - there are a few of them in cycling...


----------



## Supersuperleeds (23 Jun 2017)

Dan Evans (tennis player) has confirmed he's failed a doping test for cocaine.


----------



## Smokin Joe (25 Jun 2017)

Russia's entire 2014 World Cup squad are facing investigation -

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...014-world-cup-squad-fifa-doping-investigation


----------



## SWSteve (25 Jun 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> Russia's entire 2014 World Cup squad are facing investigation -
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...014-world-cup-squad-fifa-doping-investigation



Is this the same football team that only once in the last 9 tournaments have managed to get out of the groups - and then then it was on a very bizarre technicality. 

Can't wait for the World Cup when they somehow because Soccer powerhouses and win the bloody thing


----------



## Beebo (15 Jul 2017)

Athletics does it again. 
Sprinter claims that kissing his girlfriend caused him to fail a test.

This is total BS. 

When my partner has a cold or chest infection we keep passionate kissing to a minimum. And if I was an athlete I expect I would be even more careful to avoid infections. 

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/40613013


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## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Is this the same football team that only once in the last 9 tournaments have managed to get out of the groups - and then then it was on a very bizarre technicality.
> 
> Can't wait for the World Cup when they somehow because Soccer powerhouses and win the bloody thing


Wait a minute, did we not establish some time ago that doping is pointless in football cos it's a game of skill...


----------



## Bollo (5 Aug 2017)

Way to spoil a party!
Serial doper Justin Gatlin just royally fecked Bolt's leaving do.


----------



## SWSteve (5 Aug 2017)

Bollo said:


> Way to spoil a party!
> Serial doper Justin Gatlin just royally fecked Bolt's leaving do.



Hilarious isn't it


----------



## Melvil (5 Aug 2017)

Bollo said:


> Way to spoil a party!
> Serial doper Justin Gatlin just royally fecked Bolt's leaving do.



Yes. That's a shame. I am a little bit suspicious about this one too as the man is 35. That's very old to be winning 100m races at the world championships. Perhaps he is clean but if he is doping again it would be a massive scandal. Usain was way past his best. I genuinely don't understand why he raced. He didn't need the money or fame and his legacy is secured already. Athletics is going to be fairly boring without him. It is already in a bit of a downward spiral and people like Gatlin, who dope repeatedly, are the reason why. Winning at all costs mentality. It's what happened with Armstrong and the horrible bugger still hasn't testified about the full extent of what he did.


----------



## rich p (5 Aug 2017)

Bollo said:


> Way to spoil a party!
> Serial doper Justin Gatlin just royally fecked Bolt's leaving do.


Grrrrrrrrr!!!!!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Aug 2017)

Melvil said:


> Usain was way past his best. I genuinely don't understand why he raced.


He has been way past his best for a few years, looking at this list of best times, I think the red lines indicate "proven doper":


----------



## Melvil (5 Aug 2017)

Marmion said:


> He has been way past his best for a few years, looking at this list of best times, I think the red lines indicate "proven doper":
> View attachment 366304



Christ that makes for depressing reading


----------



## SWSteve (5 Aug 2017)

Marmion said:


> He has been way past his best for a few years, looking at this list of best times, I think the red lines indicate "proven doper":
> View attachment 366304



I think Blake's strokes were overturned because they felt he had a right to get stoned...despite it bein on the banned list


----------



## brommers (6 Aug 2017)

Beebo said:


> Athletics does it again.
> Sprinter claims that kissing his girlfriend caused him to fail a test.


Was she a Russian shotputter?


----------



## brommers (6 Aug 2017)

Bollo said:


> Way to spoil a party!
> Serial doper Justin Gatlin just royally fecked Bolt's leaving do.


I'm sorry, but it's the World Championships, not Bolt's testimonial.


----------



## Bollo (6 Aug 2017)

brommers said:


> I'm sorry, but it's the World Championships, not Bolt's testimonial.


Don't get me wrong, I actually had a little chuckle. The Beeb had gone into full epic mode - slow mo footage, stirring soundtrack, portentous voiceover - you know the score, and it was really beginning to grind my gears. So when it all went very off-script I couldn't help myself.


----------



## MacB (6 Aug 2017)

Bollo said:


> Don't get me wrong, I actually had a little chuckle. The Beeb had gone into full epic mode - slow mo footage, stirring soundtrack, portentous voiceover - you know the score, and it was really beginning to grind my gears. So when it all went very off-script I couldn't help myself.



You did better than me, I flicked over to the Beeb and montage footage of Bolts wins was playing. Then it got thoroughly creepy with the fawning and a 2 hour countdown thingy. I had to switch it off as I was worried I would choke on the cloying sickly sweetness of it all.

Oh and if I hear one more presenter/interviewer ask the stock crowd question to make attendees think the participants care about them, beyond the money, then I'm going to hunt them down and wash their mouths out with carbolic soap.


----------



## 400bhp (6 Aug 2017)

You listen to the post race analysis on the beeb, by ex athletes and you understand the bubble they live in. They just don't get it [why it's completely justifiable for the crowd to boo].

Athletics continues to bury its head in the sand in respect of doping and until they address this I believe the sport in the western world is on a downward spiral.

Just wait until the sport disappears from the BBC.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Aug 2017)

400bhp said:


> You listen to the post race analysis on the beeb, by ex athletes and you understand the bubble they live in. They just don't get it [why it's completely justifiable for the crowd to boo].
> 
> Athletics continues to bury its head in the sand in respect of doping and until they address this I believe the sport in the western world is on a downward spiral.
> 
> Just wait until the sport disappears from the BBC.


I'm always amazed that Paula Radcliffe used to be, until relatively recently, a world class athlete; she sounds as if every word could be her last as she wheezes and gasps through sentences.

The BBC athletics pundits are gushing nobbers as well as being head-in-the-sand doping apologists.


----------



## Adam4868 (6 Aug 2017)

If Bolt would have won as everyone thought would any more have been said about Gaitlin ? Should have been booted out for good after second doping ban.On a different side I wonder if all those steroids/drugs he's took have any long lasting effect on him,to his benefit ? 
As for Radcliffe I've all ways liked her,great athelete/runner and a unbelievable.pain threshold !


----------



## 400bhp (6 Aug 2017)

I also heard they are changing the time of the 100m medal ceremony to a time when there are fewer people in the stadium, presumably to reduce the booing.

That tells me everything about the IAAF.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Aug 2017)

Very off topic, but I am always impressed by the British marathon runners who mostly seem to have come from "nowhere" e.g. "Here's Dave now, some of you might be aware of his back story, but it is one worth repeating; until last year he had only ever run a marathon as part of a husband/wife panto horse charity marathon team, with Dave being the front legs/head. The night before last year's Bolton marathon his wife decided to go out on the razz with her friends and Dave found himself standing alone on the start line with no panto horse rear end. It was then that he decided to strip down to his Y-fronts and string vest and run it solo. And the rest, as they say, is history..."


----------



## 400bhp (6 Aug 2017)

The British chap who is currently doing the marathon and "came from nowhere" in the last year just doesn't smell right.


----------



## Crackle (6 Aug 2017)

Marmion said:


> Very off topic, but I am always impressed by the British marathon runners who mostly seem to have come from "nowhere" e.g. "Here's Dave now, some of you might be aware of his back story, but it is one worth repeating; until last year he had only ever run a marathon as part of a husband/wife panto horse charity marathon team, with Dave being the front legs/head. The night before last year's Bolton marathon his wife decided to go out on the razz with her friends and Dave found himself standing alone on the start line with no panto horse rear end. It was then that he decided to strip down to his Y-fronts and string vest and run it solo. And the rest, as they say, is history..."


You read that in the Valiant. That's how Alf Tupper started.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Aug 2017)

400bhp said:


> The British chap who is currently doing the marathon and "came from nowhere" in the last year just doesn't smell right.


He probably smells of front-end-of-panto-horse


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Aug 2017)

I spy that Liz McColgan took to twitter earlier today to state she does not believe the Ethiopians are racing clean (or something like that): 

"So from 3k to 8 k Ayana 5 k split 14:30. Until Ethiopia follow proper doping procedures i for one do not accept these athletes performances"


----------



## Adam4868 (6 Aug 2017)

It ain't just those pesky Russians seb ! 
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/aug/04/doping-hotspot-ethiopia-drug-testing-epo


----------



## Beebo (6 Aug 2017)

The female British marathon runner has tan lines to make a pro cyclist blush. 
Not sure about her drug history


----------



## Crackle (6 Aug 2017)

There's more and more acknowledgement of the issues outside of the mainstream BBC. 5 Live had a piece on the booing before but the presenters really need to educate themselves a bit more. There was also a recent interview with Jo Pavey which was much more progressive.


----------



## SWSteve (6 Aug 2017)

The British guy this year runs for Swansea harriers iirc, and was in the elite pack anyway at London (the qualifier). 

To say he came from nowhere is wrong, but he had definitely been missed by the system


----------



## SWSteve (6 Aug 2017)

User said:


> since 2014 I've always thought of Jo Pavey as athletics answer to cyclings Chris Horner



Married to a spice girl?


----------



## Beebo (6 Aug 2017)

Marmion said:


> I spy that Liz McColgan took to twitter earlier today to state she does not believe the Ethiopians are racing clean (or something like that):
> 
> "So from 3k to 8 k Ayana 5 k split 14:30. Until Ethiopia follow proper doping procedures i for one do not accept these athletes performances"


To put that in context, it is the 3rd fastest 5,000m this year!


----------



## themosquitoking (6 Aug 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> If Bolt would have won as everyone thought would any more have been said about Gaitlin ? Should have been booted out for good after second doping ban.On a different side I wonder if all those steroids/drugs he's took have any long lasting effect on him,to his benefit ?
> As for Radcliffe I've all ways liked her,great athelete/runner and a unbelievable.pain threshold !


A 35 year old drugs cheat beating the greatest sprinter ever who is bowing out because he's finished at 30. I can't possibly see how it would help.


----------



## SWSteve (6 Aug 2017)

Has anyone read Richard Moore's book on Bolt? Does the doping issue come up?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (8 Aug 2017)

Would need to go look for it, but read a story today that an Italian tennis player had been banned for 2 months (two !) after failing a drug test, she said it was her mothers' cancer drugs had made it into the tortolinni at a family meal. Tennis has a lot to hide.


----------



## brommers (8 Aug 2017)

Usain Bolt is only 30 and many sprinters are still in their prime at that age. Odd that his times have fallen away so dramatically and has decided to retire, at the very same time there has been so much publicity about doping in athletics - taking back medals, banning Russia, etc.


----------



## brommers (8 Aug 2017)

Did they ever test this mans fish and chips?


----------



## rich p (8 Aug 2017)

brommers said:


> Did they ever test this mans fish and chips?
> 
> View attachment 366992


Definitely a bit fishy, and he always finished in 1st plaice...
No more carp puns...


----------



## albion (31 Aug 2017)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...sional-athletes-surveyed-break-rules-enhance/.

50% admit to it, and that is in one of the proactive testing sports.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Oct 2017)

British javelin throwing chapess fails dope test:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/41471489


----------



## SWSteve (2 Oct 2017)




----------



## Bobby Mhor (3 Oct 2017)

brommers said:


> Did they ever test this mans fish and chips?
> 
> View attachment 366992


Clenbuterol in the beef dripping they fried it with


----------



## DRM (9 Oct 2017)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/41542423

Not so much doping, but a complete & utter dope, Castleford Tigers full back Zak Hardaker tested positive for cocaine, should have been in the grand final squad last saturday, then off to Australia to represent England in the forthcoming World Cup, what a waste of a talent.


----------



## themosquitoking (9 Oct 2017)

DRM said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/41542423
> 
> Not so much doping, but a complete & utter dope, Castleford Tigers full back Zak Hardaker tested positive for cocaine, should have been in the grand final squad last saturday, then off to Australia to represent England in the forthcoming World Cup, what a waste of a talent.


That beak is really moreish though


----------



## Beebo (31 Oct 2017)

Mo Farah is leaving his controversial coach in US and coming back to UK.
His new coach will be Paula Radcliffe's husband.


----------



## Shadow (7 Nov 2017)

And another endurance/long distance Kenyan runner:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/41903500


----------



## Beebo (8 Nov 2017)

I see your dodgy beef and raise you uncastrated wild boar!

Tyson Fury’s latest excuse for failing a dope test. 

The legal battle could bring down UK anti doping!

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/41899478


----------



## Buddfox (16 Nov 2017)

Nadal wins some compo over allegations of doping: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42009252


----------



## normgow (18 Nov 2017)

In an article today in the "Sueddeutshe Zeitung". Jean-Francois Larios, voted French Footballer of the year 1980, reveals in his biography that he used Captagon (an amphetamine) during his time playing alongside Michel Platini for AS St. Etienne. He claims that other team members were also doped.


----------



## Adam4868 (18 Nov 2017)

View: https://twitter.com/barneyronay/status/931819886661263360


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (18 Nov 2017)

A game of skill...


----------



## Adam4868 (18 Nov 2017)

Marmion said:


> A game of skill...


Who do you support again ?


----------



## Beebo (5 Dec 2017)

The IOC have banned Russia from the Winter Olympics, and banned their delegate for life. 
But he is the same man who is overseeing the FIFA World Cup in the summer. 
FIFA will wash their hands of this again and the IOC still have to explain why they awarded the Olympics to Sotchi.


----------



## User169 (18 Dec 2017)

Not dopers, but dopey...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lottonl-jumbo-set-to-fire-lobato-after-sleep-medication-fiasco/


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (19 Dec 2017)

Gatlin's entourage in the doping news again:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/42406063

You gotta laugh at the quote from Wagner.
And LordSeb coming out with the usual lines.


----------



## mjr (18 Jan 2018)

You wouldn't make it up: https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...al-event-after-surprise-visit-by-drug-testers

Also, BBC news reporting that the court case in Belgium claiming Whereabouts illegally infringes human rights has failed, but I didn't find it online yet.


----------



## Bollo (29 Jan 2018)

Retired Olympian Michael Jamieson covers a lot of bases in this interview but tips his hat at doping in swimming and dyson-levels of carpet-sweeping by FINA. Say it ain't so.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (29 Jan 2018)

Holy crap!
http://www.ardmediathek.de/tv/Sport...Erste/Video?bcastId=53524&documentId=49614350


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (30 Jan 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> What is it?
> 
> I'm afraid my German doesn't extend beyond flughaven and kartoffelschaler


I started to run it last night but there was no sound (in any language) so I looked at it after rebooting this morning. It's no longer available.


----------



## Crackle (30 Jan 2018)

I watched a bit last night. Was there anything new that wasn't in the original report?


----------



## Crackle (30 Jan 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> What was it?


The bit I saw was about Sochi and the FSB organized sample replacement, which was all in the original report which got Russia banned. I think it went a bit further in clearly stating it was all on the orders of Putin and after that I stopped watching with the intention of going back.


----------



## Crackle (30 Jan 2018)

There was an interesting article in the Guardian yesterday, predominantly about Michael Jamieson but in it was this bit...

_The old curse of doping, however, remains. “I don’t want to tarnish everyone with the same brush but we’ve seen foul play with the Russians, eastern bloc nations and the Chinese. Once we were at a [international] camp in Australia at an outdoor pool. There were basic aluminium starting blocks and pouring rain and six athletes swam 3.44 or faster for 400 freestyle. It’s impossible._
_I think the way Fina have conducted themselves the last couple of years is an absolute disgrace _
_“My opinion is it’s still a huge issue today. Micro-dosing is virtually untraceable. The natural levels of testosterone have parameters so wide you can micro-dose slightly and have a huge benefit. Within 24 hours it’s gone but you benefit for three months. Undoubtedly swimming has a problem. I have no idea how you get on top of it._

Which is rather depressing if you extrapolate it to all sports.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Jan 2018)

Yep, on instructions of Putin and the former head of doping centre ii now in "protection" in US due to the high likelihood of him "dying in mysterious circumstances" at the behest of Putin.

It was available as 34 minute documentary in English when I linked to it


----------



## User169 (3 Feb 2018)

Little story from NL...

https://www.omroepgelderland.nl/nieuws/2304421/Geluksthee-met-doping-kost-atlete-Europese-titel

Jasmijn Lau, the biggest young talent in NL middle-distance running, has been stripped of the 5000m European title that she won last year (not sure if it was under 18 or under 20). 

Failed a dope test after the event, ran the Linford Christie “happy tea” defence, which largely seems to have been accepted and has been banned for one day coinciding with the race, so loses her title.

Her comments in the piece make unhappy reading - “I know I was ran faster than everyone else, so this isn’t a big deal”. No real contrition or awareness of how this looks.

She’s subsequently moved to the US - any guesses as to where she is?

The day after this news broke here, the training group my daughter runs with posted a long note on doping on their fb page. Seems desperately sad to have to talk about doping with a 12 years old.


----------



## hoopdriver (3 Feb 2018)

How times change. When I was 12 I couldn’t even _spell_ EPO.

In fact, I’m still not sure of the spelling - had to copy it out of a book just now...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Feb 2018)

Another bewildered doper gets a 2 year ban
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/42957650


----------



## rich p (6 Feb 2018)

Marmion said:


> Another bewildered doper gets a 2 year ban
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/42957650


Oooh, you are a hard man Marmy. he says he's innocent, which sounds pretty persuasive to me.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Feb 2018)

Just watching the opening ceremony of the winter Olympics, the only believable part of it.

I wonder if anyone will have got their 'preparation' wrong and gets busted?


----------



## Adam4868 (9 Feb 2018)

Marmion said:


> Just watching the opening ceremony of the winter Olympics, the only believable part of it.
> 
> I wonder if anyone will have got their 'preparation' wrong and gets busted?


For defecting ?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Feb 2018)

Robin Cousins just said something along the lines of "if you break the rules you will always be found out."

What a fud.


----------



## Bollo (9 Feb 2018)

Marmion said:


> Just watching the opening ceremony of the winter Olympics, the only believable part of it.
> 
> I wonder if anyone will have got their 'preparation' wrong and gets busted?


The cold can play merry hell with people's asthma.

One for @DP - Long track speed skating is as Dutch as hagelslag and not saying please, but I've always had it down as a sport that would benefit from a bit of chemical assistance. I know a few Russian skaters have been caught (no!). Is there any scrutiny of the Netherland's success, or are they happy with the medals and don't want to ask too many questions?


----------



## Bollo (9 Feb 2018)

Marmion said:


> Robin Cousins just said something along the lines of "if you break the rules you will always be found out."
> 
> What a fud.


After listening to that interpretation of 'Imagine', I'm popping into town for some ketamine quick-sharp.


----------



## User169 (9 Feb 2018)

Bollo said:


> The cold can play merry hell with people's asthma.
> 
> One for @DP - Long track speed skating is as Dutch as hagelslag and not saying please, but I've always had it down as a sport that would benefit from a bit of chemical assistance. I know a few Russian skaters have been caught (no!). Is there any scrutiny of the Netherland's success, or are they happy with the medals and don't want to ask too many questions?



Dunno Bollo - I've always wondered the same about rowing. I don't sense much scrutiny or scepticism by the public at large and don't hear doping mentioned on NOS (equivalent of BBC). A bit like the GB track bike team where most people only tune in for the olympics I guess. 

The Lotto Jumbo team here is actually a bike team and a skating team, so I suppose there must be some cross-over of staff and expertise. One of the top skaters, Sven Kramer, was a very handy junior cyclist - I've seen a picture of him alongside Mollema on the podium after a junior race and he seems to do a lot of cycling as cross training.

(Ed. And the Dutch do say please, but, confusingly, only when they give you stuff)


----------



## Bollo (9 Feb 2018)

DP said:


> Dunno Bollo - I've always wondered the same about rowing. I don't sense much scrutiny or scepticism by the public at large and don't hear doping mentioned on NOS (equivalent of BBC). A bit like the GB track bike team where most people only tune in for the olympics I guess.
> 
> The Lotto Jumbo team here is actually a bike team and a skating team, so I suppose there must be some cross-over of staff and expertise. One of the top skaters, Sven Kramer, was a very handy junior cyclist - I've seen a picture of him alongside Mollema on the podium after a junior race and he seems to do a lot of cycling as cross training.
> 
> (Ed. And the Dutch do say please, but, confusingly, only when they give you stuff)



Yes, that's the comparison I was talking about and rowing is another good example. It's that combination of a dope-friendly sport coupled with an audience that's happy enough not to have the questions asked.

I've skated in the past and young Bolletta skates now so I take an interest in the ice events. I can believe that the qualities of a decent TTer or track-cyclist would work well for the ice track events.

(...the please thing is a running joke with a Dutch friend who claims to be wound up by the endless pleases and thank yous that occur during any interaction between two UK nationals, even if it's a car crash)

((...the Basingstoke Ice Arena is under threat! Sign the petition!))


----------



## Maenchi (11 Feb 2018)

Marmion said:


> Holy crap!
> http://www.ardmediathek.de/tv/Sport...Erste/Video?bcastId=53524&documentId=49614350


This and the Icarus documentary,.....and lance Armstrong.....(again).....phew ! (the link works ok ,and in English)


----------



## User169 (12 Feb 2018)

Bollo said:


> ((...the Basingstoke Ice Arena is under threat! Sign the petition!))



Done! (I remember when only Westfield Lido was there - we had to go to Southampton to skate)


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Feb 2018)

Marmion said:


> Just watching the opening ceremony of the winter Olympics, the only believable part of it.
> 
> I wonder if anyone will have got their 'preparation' wrong and gets busted?


And we have our first busted doper of the games, a Japanese speed skater who failed an out of competition test prior to the games
Edit: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/43040184


----------



## hoopdriver (13 Feb 2018)

I've been watching the curling and my inner humorist is wondering what possible performance enhancing drugs they use to cheat in that one? 

Surely drug testing curling competitors must be an almost comical exercise....


----------



## rich p (13 Feb 2018)

hoopdriver said:


> I've been watching the curling and my inner humorist is wondering what possible performance enhancing drugs they use to cheat in that one?
> 
> Surely drug testing curling competitors must be an almost comical exercise....


Snooker and bowls players have had beta blockers in the past ISTR


----------



## hoopdriver (13 Feb 2018)

rich p said:


> Snooker and bowls players have had beta blockers in the past ISTR


There would be some logic for that, none for curling


----------



## rich p (13 Feb 2018)

hoopdriver said:


> There would be some logic for that, none for curling



It seems you're right
http://www.worldcurling.org/beta-blockers-removed-from-banned-substance-list-for-curlers

All the action is going on in the seedy world of wheelchair curling!!!
https://deadspin.com/5893881/what-is-going-on-with-all-the-doping-in-wheelchair-curling


----------



## hoopdriver (13 Feb 2018)

rich p said:


> It seems you're right
> http://www.worldcurling.org/beta-blockers-removed-from-banned-substance-list-for-curlers
> 
> All the action is going on in the seedy world of wheelchair curling!!!
> https://deadspin.com/5893881/what-is-going-on-with-all-the-doping-in-wheelchair-curling


I’ve heard it all now...!


----------



## Bollo (18 Feb 2018)

And as if by magic....

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...s-russian-athlete-reportedly-fails-drugs-test

Does that man that the Olympic team will get banned from the Olympics?!


----------



## hoopdriver (18 Feb 2018)

And incredibly enough it was an athlete from their curling team! What gives with these guys. Does the thought of sport and competition create some kind of Pavlovian response that has them reaching intuitively and brainlessly for the medicine cabinet? Amazing. You couldn’t script this.


----------



## Bollo (20 Feb 2018)

More Olympics news - Slovenian Ice Hockey player Ziga Jeglic tests positive for fenoterol, used to treat asthma. He's done a "fair cop guv'nor, banged to rights, slap the bracelets etc...." and gone home. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...est-slovenian-ice-hockey-player-a8218946.html


----------



## mjr (20 Feb 2018)

Whole football club charged with providing drug-tester-evading incorrect details to the "whereabouts" system http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43132301

But of course, this doesn't mean there's any suspicion of institutional doping or anything, oh no.


----------



## mjr (20 Feb 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Just an "administrative oversight". Move along now, nothing to see here. Game of skill...


Yes, but what skill?


----------



## Bollo (23 Feb 2018)

Olympic Athletes From Russia may soon need to be 'Olympic Athletes from Olympic Athletes from Russia'.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-tests-positive-for-doping-at-winter-olympics


----------



## Crackle (23 Feb 2018)

Lot of heart problems in Russia.


----------



## Bollo (23 Feb 2018)

Crackle said:


> Lot of heart problems in Russia.


Here’s a picture of the OAR bobsleigher who’s just failed the drugs test, taken after the team arrived at the Olympics. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but I think she just might be innocent.


----------



## Crackle (23 Feb 2018)

Is she watching that flying pig go past?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Feb 2018)

They should get "on message" and just call them Doping Athletes from Russian


----------



## Beebo (28 Feb 2018)

Russia have now been allowed back by the IOC. 
Seems odd given the failure of Russian “clean athletes” at the Winter Olympics.


----------



## rich p (1 Mar 2018)

Beebo said:


> Russia have now been allowed back by the IOC.
> Seems odd given the failure of Russian “clean athletes” at the Winter Olympics.


Incomprehensible


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Mar 2018)

Ivory Coast get gold and silver in women's 60m world indoors - what's the testing like in the Ivory Coast?


----------



## User169 (4 Mar 2018)

And in surprising news, Kenyan paid a boat load of petro dollars fails test (allegedly).

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...champion-drug-test-kenya-bahrain-steeplechase


----------



## mjr (5 Mar 2018)

The report criticising Brutish Cycling and Team Sky mentioned in https://www.cyclechat.net/posts/5172185 also criticises Mo Farah and calls athletics federation leader and ex London Olympics supremo Lord Coe "misleading".


----------



## Crackle (5 Mar 2018)

There's an article in the Guardian dealing with Coe's 'willful ignornace', and Mo Farah injecting himself with more than Quorn

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/05/sebastian-coe-inquiry-russia-doping

nasty stuff.


----------



## Adam4868 (5 Mar 2018)

mjr said:


> The report criticising Brutish Cycling and Team Sky mentioned in https://www.cyclechat.net/posts/5172185 also criticises Mo Farah and calls athletics federation leader and ex London Olympics supremo Lord Coe "misleading".


I guess that's a nice way of saying Coe is a lying c@#!


----------



## Adam4868 (7 Mar 2018)

I watched the film/documentary Icarus last night about state sponsered doping in Russia,it was brilliant.


----------



## bpsmith (8 Mar 2018)

Adam4868 said:


> I watched the film/documentary Icarus last night about state sponsered doping in Russia,it was brilliant.


Good enough for an Oscar, no less.


----------



## smutchin (12 Mar 2018)

Just catching up on this thread so apologies for replying to a v.old post, especially since this is a bit off-topic, but I thought this was interesting enough to merit it...



Bollo said:


> I've skated in the past and young Bolletta skates now so I take an interest in the ice events. I can believe that the qualities of a decent TTer or track-cyclist would work well for the ice track events.



Connie Carpenter-Phinney started out as a speed skater before moving to cycling - road rather than track. And she was frikkin' awesome at both. 

In fact, she is one of a number of athletes who have competed at both the summer olympics in cycling and the winter olympics in speed skating. Laurine Van Riessen rode on the track for the Dutch team at the 2016 olympics having previously competed at the winter games in speed skating.

Cross country skiing is another popular sport among cyclists and a good few athletes have doubled up at the winter/summer games in those sports. 

Also Thibaut Pinot competed in a cross country skiing race earlier this year.


----------



## smutchin (12 Mar 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Not _downhill _skiing? No surprise there.



Very good!


----------



## Prometheus (13 Mar 2018)

The coveted National Cycling Centre is in Manchester.
First; disgrace team Sky.
Then pull the funding from the corrupt Manchester setup.

Next; justifiably take the National Cycling Centre to London.
With the help of course of funding from a Media mogul.

Last; empty the waste-baskets of brown paper job done.


----------



## rich p (13 Mar 2018)

Prometheus said:


> The coveted National Cycling Centre is in Manchester.
> First; disgrace team Sky.
> Then pull the funding from the corrupt Manchester setup.
> 
> ...


Which is the other sport of which you refer?
I'd stick to something less potent, like brake fluid and tonic.


----------



## mjr (28 Mar 2018)

Fancy Bears had a go at getting into UKAD https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/26/ukad-cyber-attack-famcy-bears-link


----------



## DRM (1 Apr 2018)

bpsmith said:


> Good enough for an Oscar, no less.


I watched it as well, a brilliant documentary & I thought it interesting to see Putin smirking at the Sochi olympics, once we knew that he ordered mass doping, as it was during the Cold War era, plus it highlighted the dangers of whistleblowing after the incident in Salisbury the other week.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 May 2018)

Asbel Kiprop, Olympic and multi-world champion in 1500m, has been busted in an out of competition test.


----------



## smutchin (2 May 2018)

Pro Tour Punditry said:


> Asbel Kiprop, Olympic and multi-world champion in 1500m, has been busted in an out of competition test.



Not possible. These Kenyans, it’s a combination of genetics and being born in the mountains, and probably being chased by lions when they were kids or something. But now you’re telling me it’s because they’re actually dirty drugs cheats? My whole world has crumbled.*

*May contain hints of sarcasm.


----------



## Shadow (15 May 2018)

Another over paid naughty boy.

"While I did not realise at the time that I was given a medication that was banned, I obviously now wish that I had been more careful," - really? Have we heard that line somewhere before?


----------



## Beebo (15 May 2018)

Shadow said:


> Another over paid naughty boy.
> 
> "While I did not realise at the time that I was given a medication that was banned, I obviously now wish that I had been more careful," - really? Have we heard that line somewhere before?


Will he still earns his $2million per month during his 80 game ban?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (15 May 2018)

Beebo said:


> Will he still earns his $2million per month during his 80 game ban?


That's the 64 million dollar question!


----------



## User169 (15 May 2018)

Shadow said:


> Another over paid naughty boy.
> 
> "While I did not realise at the time that I was given a medication that was banned, I obviously now wish that I had been more careful," - really? Have we heard that line somewhere before?



Banned for 80 matches. Sounds like a lot, but means he’ll be back mid-August this year and he’s out injured at the moment anyway.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (16 May 2018)

$240 million contract from the Mariners over 10 years
Robbie Cano is laughing


and they wonder why athletes dope...
Makes you think when the expected contract offer to Harper will be $400 million over 10 years..


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (16 May 2018)

And it's shite...


----------



## Bollo (18 May 2018)

The fallout from Kiprop’s bust causes further difficultness in the Mo Farah camp...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/may/18/mo-farah-tested-drugs-african-training-camps


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (18 May 2018)

Bollo said:


> The fallout from Kiprop’s bust causes further difficultness in the Mo Farah camp...
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/may/18/mo-farah-tested-drugs-african-training-camps


----------



## Shadow (23 May 2018)

Another asthmatic?

_'UK Anti-Doping (Ukad) said his actions were not intentional and that he "did not look to cheat".' _Really - why take the stuff then?


----------



## Beebo (11 Jun 2018)

Seems a bit harsh for this tennis player. Her mother’s cancer drug has contaminated her food. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/44440473


----------



## 400bhp (12 Jun 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> I'm sure I've seen the "contamination with relative's medication" explanation used before. Or maybe it was the same case.



I think there's been a few.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jun 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> I'm sure I've seen the "contamination with relative's medication" explanation used before. Or maybe it was the same case.





400bhp said:


> I think there's been a few.



It's #7 on the most used excuses for being busted list


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2018)

View: https://twitter.com/lionelbirnie/status/1014763538349547521


#gameofskill


----------



## Bollo (1 Aug 2018)

This thread needs a little pick-me-up, so how about....

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/aug/01/samir-nasri-doping-ban-extended-18-months

UEFA seemingly grow some genitals and win an appeal to extend “the new Zidane’s” ban to 18 months. Retrospective though so he can be back, whatever that means, in November.


----------



## Milzy (1 Aug 2018)

Bollo said:


> This thread needs a little pick-me-up, so how about....
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/aug/01/samir-nasri-doping-ban-extended-18-months
> 
> UEFA seemingly grow some genitals and win an appeal to extend “the new Zidane’s” ban to 18 months.


All pro sports are at it. The top 20 UCI riders will be on programs so advanced WADA won’t even have tests for.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Aug 2018)

Milzy said:


> All pro sports are at it. The top 20 UCI riders will be on programs so advanced WADA won’t even have tests for.


Just the top 20? Who are they?


----------



## Beebo (2 Aug 2018)

Milzy said:


> All pro sports are at it. The top 20 UCI riders will be on programs so advanced WADA won’t even have tests for.


I’m sure the dopers are ahead of the testers but that is why we have biological passports and historic retesting of samples. 

So if what you say is correct, then in 10 years time they will all get retrospective bans.


----------



## rich p (2 Aug 2018)

Milzy said:


> All pro sports are at it. The top 20 UCI riders will be on programs so advanced WADA won’t even have tests for.


Bloody hell, Milzy, you've been on the brake fluid again. 
Just say NO!


----------



## Bollo (14 Sep 2018)

If only to bounce the thread....

WADA have reinstated the Russian Anti-Doping Agency. Apparently those two guys in the RT interview, after fully explaining their visit to Salisbury, also chipped in that the entire Russian doping programme was ‘vyitameens’.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ency-reinstatement-russian-anti-doping-agency


----------



## Milzy (14 Sep 2018)

The thing is with Russia they can do anything or say anything they want because the western democracies are scared of them. Petty sanctions won’t do anything, it’s like poking a pit bull with a stick. We will need their gas & oil. We’re completely bent over a barrel by them. It’s so embarrassing really.


----------



## Bollo (14 Sep 2018)

Milzy said:


> The thing is with Russia they can do anything or say anything they want because the western democracies are scared of them. Petty sanctions won’t do anything, it’s like poking a pit bull with a stick. We will need their gas & oil. We’re completely bent over a barrel by them. It’s so embarrassing really.





rich p said:


> Bloody hell, Milzy, you've been on the brake fluid again.
> Just say NO!


----------



## nickyboy (15 Sep 2018)

Milzy said:


> The thing is with Russia they can do anything or say anything they want because the western democracies are scared of them. Petty sanctions won’t do anything, it’s like poking a pit bull with a stick. We will need their gas & oil. We’re completely bent over a barrel by them. It’s so embarrassing really.


Bent over a pipeline rather than a barrel 

Britain only gets 14% of its gas needs from Russia so can afford to poke it with a stick. Countries like Germany can't


----------



## themosquitoking (15 Sep 2018)

nickyboy said:


> Bent over a pipeline rather than a barrel
> 
> Britain only gets 14% of its gas needs from Russia so can afford to poke it with a stick. Countries like Germany can't


The other problem we have is our housing market is being held up by Russian billionaires buying up property they have no intention of living in.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (29 Dec 2018)

Not cycling related..
but hasn't this UFC Jones fight made a mockery of the USADA?
you can show a adverse test in Nevada then just move the fight to California?
TBH I haven't looked at the nitty gritty of it all but surely something stinks here...


----------



## Milzy (29 Dec 2018)

Bobby Mhor said:


> Not cycling related..
> but hasn't this UFC Jones fight made a mockery of the USADA?
> you can show a adverse test in Nevada then just move the fight to California?
> TBH I haven't looked at the nitty gritty of it all but surely something stinks here...


He was positive for T-Bol. Loved by Anold S in his Mr.Olympia days. A great steroid for muscle gain & strength. 
The best of the best probably aren’t clean. Pro sports for you.


----------



## User169 (2 Jan 2019)

Bollo said:


> If only to bounce the thread....
> 
> WADA have reinstated the Russian Anti-Doping Agency. Apparently those two guys in the RT interview, after fully explaining their visit to Salisbury, also chipped in that the entire Russian doping programme was ‘vyitameens’.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ency-reinstatement-russian-anti-doping-agency



Well that went well...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...data-deadline-wada-travis-tygart-craig-reedie


----------



## rich p (2 Jan 2019)

DP said:


> Well that went well...
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...data-deadline-wada-travis-tygart-craig-reedie


Quelle surprise!

I watched the invitational biathlon a few days ago, in which Bjorndalen and Damrachova came 3rd, and the Russian male athlete Shipulin(?) had just retired in the midst of yet another Russian doping investigation. Dunno if it's state sponsored but it's more than random individuals.


----------



## Adam4868 (2 Jan 2019)

https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2...-in-sport-athletics?__twitter_impression=true


----------



## Beebo (3 Jan 2019)

Adam4868 said:


> https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2...-in-sport-athletics?__twitter_impression=true



This line in the article made me laugh.
"I can’t believe that former 1960s badminton starlet Craig Reedie has had his arse handed to him yet again by former KGB colonel Vladimir Putin."


----------



## Adam4868 (3 Jan 2019)

Marina Hyde...you can always expect quality !


----------



## Beebo (7 Jan 2019)

Access to the Russian lab is allowed on Wednesday. 
Will there be anything left to inspect?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/46786572


----------



## Stonechat (1 Mar 2019)

Unbelievably their is doping in Bridge ( the card game).
Geri Hegelmo, a top player has been suspended and loses a number of wins for
Clomifene and synthetic Testosterone


----------



## User169 (1 Mar 2019)

Nordic World Cup Ski Champs. Max Hauke gets caught mid-transfusion...

https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/3225172/video-langlaufer-gepakt-met-dopingnaald-in-arm


----------



## Shadow (1 Mar 2019)

Bridge now, not for the first time apparently.
Oh dear, one does wonder why if they are not PEDs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/47420065


----------



## DRM (1 Mar 2019)

Shadow said:


> Bridge now, not for the first time apparently.
> Oh dear, one does wonder why if they are not PEDs.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/47420065


Just seen this on the BBC sport website, must admit my first thought was WTF, not performance enhancing in bridge, why take the stuff!!!


----------



## User169 (4 Mar 2019)

DP said:


> Nordic World Cup Ski Champs. Max Hauke gets caught mid-transfusion...
> 
> https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/3225172/video-langlaufer-gepakt-met-dopingnaald-in-arm



Cyclists involved in the same investigation...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/preidler-admits-to-blood-extraction-as-doping-investigation-widens/

This dude only had the blood extracted of course.


----------



## Milzy (4 Mar 2019)

DP said:


> Cyclists involved in the same investigation...
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/preidler-admits-to-blood-extraction-as-doping-investigation-widens/
> 
> This dude only had the blood extracted of course.


So will the French throw urine at that team? They will still accuse Team sky of cheating. I hate it when they’re called U.K. postal. Although they’re my hero’s there’s no real way of knowing what really goes on.


----------



## rich p (4 Mar 2019)

DP said:


> Cyclists involved in the same investigation...
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/preidler-admits-to-blood-extraction-as-doping-investigation-widens/
> 
> This dude only had the blood extracted of course.




_Schmidt was previously a doctor at the Gerolsteiner and Milram cycling team. *He was accused of doping by Bernard Kohl when the Austrian rider was caught in 2008 but was cleared after a trial.* German police reportedly found 40 bags of blood stored in a garage and arrested Schmidt at his surgery in Erfurt and suggested athletes from different sports were involved..._


Schmidt probably gave up doping athletes after 2008 but was bored and needed something to do with his spare time after a while...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (17 Apr 2019)

Jarrell Miller, the opponent the British world heavyweight boxing titlist, Anthony Joshua, had been due to fight soon, has been found to have been taking GW1516, which basically allows you to lose weight and yet sustain harder training. This is the second time Miller has been caught doping. He's a very big lad and I'm not surprised he needs a bit of help shedding the extra pounds... 

https://www.ringtv.com/559441-jarre...y-nysac-anthony-joshua-seeks-replacement-foe/


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 Apr 2019)

Flying_Monkey said:


> He's a very big lad and I'm not surprised he needs a bit of help shedding the extra pounds...



Apparently, still not big enough though: he's also not been caught for HGH in a separate test failure: 

https://www.ringtv.com/559606-jarrell-miller-tests-positive-for-hgh-on-separate-vada-test/ 

This being boxing, it'll probably just be a few months off...


----------



## DRM (20 Apr 2019)

rich p said:


> _Schmidt was previously a doctor at the Gerolsteiner and Milram cycling team. *He was accused of doping by Bernard Kohl when the Austrian rider was caught in 2008 but was cleared after a trial.* German police reportedly found 40 bags of blood stored in a garage and arrested Schmidt at his surgery in Erfurt and suggested athletes from different sports were involved..._
> 
> 
> Schmidt probably gave up doping athletes after 2008 but was bored and needed something to do with his spare time after a while...


Just occurred to me why we shouldn’t be surprised at the above statement “Arrested at his surgery in Erfurt” prior to 1989 Erfurt was in East Germany,.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Apr 2019)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Apparently, still not big enough though: he's also not been caught for HGH in a separate test failure:
> 
> https://www.ringtv.com/559606-jarrell-miller-tests-positive-for-hgh-on-separate-vada-test/
> 
> This being boxing, it'll probably just be a few months off...



It gets even better. Miller has now tested positive for a third substance: EPO (as well as one of the previous ones, again). You couldn't make it up:

https://www.ringtv.com/559641-jarrell-miller-tests-positive-for-a-third-yes-a-third-time/


----------



## rich p (21 Apr 2019)

Flying_Monkey said:


> It gets even better. Miller has now tested positive for a third substance: EPO (as well as one of the previous ones, again). You couldn't make it up:
> 
> https://www.ringtv.com/559641-jarrell-miller-tests-positive-for-a-third-yes-a-third-time/


Maybe he took one punch too many and completely lost his marbles.
Or he's a cheating bastard.


----------



## Crackle (25 Apr 2019)

I'm putting this in here because the finger of suspicion has fallen on or near Sir Mo previously. However this row that's broken out between him and Haile Gebrselassie is quite delicious and somewhat astonishing. It doesn't reflect well on Sir Mo, one of a long line of things which don't reflect well from dodgy coaches and training partners to dubious time spent training in areas where testing regimes are more difficult. And that's before we get to that ridiculous advert where he runs through a wall and pours tea over himself. Petulant doesn't cover it..

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-haile-gebrselassie-over-ethiopia-hotel-theft

_The bitter exchange was started by Farah at the end of the press launch for Sunday’s London marathon, with the Briton picking up the microphone to launch an astonishing attack on Gebrselassie, who he said had not done enough after he had £2,500, a watch and two mobile phones stolen at the Ethiopian’s hotel last month.

Gebrselassie responded by accusing Farah and his entourage of “multiple reports of disgraceful conduct” while staying in his hotel, adding the British star had not paid his $3,000 hotel bill, despite a 50% discount, and claimed Farah was reported to police for attacking an athlete in the gym, a charge he said was later dropped._


----------



## Adam4868 (25 Apr 2019)

Saw the Farah spat on the news this morning....strange ! To say the least.


----------



## pawl (27 Apr 2019)

Cricket.Alex Hales Nottingham cricketer tested positive for a second time recreational drug use.

I know cricket is boring . If i was a fan of cricket or played I would need drugs to keep me awake.


----------



## Lloss (3 Jun 2019)

The world of athletics is awash with dope that includes cycling.


----------



## Shadow (13 Jun 2019)

Canoeing this time. Who'dathunk it? Good the IOC is _so_ up to date.


----------



## Dogtrousers (13 Jun 2019)

Shadow said:


> Canoeing this time. Who'dathunk it? Good the IOC is _so_ up to date.


I don't know why I find that funny, because obviously you need good upper body strength for canoeing but somehow it makes me laugh. It made me imagine Ray Mears in a hand-made canoe, off his head on local mescaline.


----------



## AuroraSaab (14 Jun 2019)

Does anybody watch those sports documentaries on Netflix? I've been watching a few of the Crossfit ones. The competitors have a hugely impressive level of fitness, but a few of the men and women have physiques that I can only politely describe as looking a bit like they might be chemically assisted. I know they drug test in the big competitions but I don't think they drug test randomly through the year. One guy did get disqualified in the Crossfit Games.

I think there was talk of getting Crossfit into the Olympics (not sure why as it's a brand really, and no more a sport than say circuit training is) but I think they will really have to up the standard of testing to be anywhere near consideration.


----------



## BalkanExpress (23 Aug 2019)

If any libel lawyers are reading this is not doping, but....

Listening to Mark Wood at lunch in the test march today, he was recounting how Jofra Archer had received a pain killing injection in his side before going out to bowl the “ Super over” in the World Cup final. 

Blooming heck, needlespainkillers it’s a different world.


----------



## rich p (22 Sep 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/49780788

The Russkies could get banned again for manipulating the data.
Cheating bastards


----------



## rich p (27 Sep 2019)

World Athletics champs starts on today with state doping and evasion still going on in Russia and a German TV programme exposing even more Kenyan athletes on the juice.
Currently there are 41 Kenyans banned.
And you thought cycling had a problem
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1085100/kenya-doping-claims-aiu-sebastian-coe


----------



## Beebo (1 Oct 2019)

Mo Farah's coach has been given a 4 year ban, it seems he was in cahoots with a dodgy doctor. Where have we heard that before?
There is currently no issue with Farah, but it does look odd.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/49882757


----------



## User169 (1 Oct 2019)

Beebo said:


> Mo Farah's coach has been given a 4 year ban, it seems he was in cahoots with a dodgy doctor. Where have we heard that before?
> There is currently no issue with Farah, but it does look odd.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/49882757



Salazar's latest protege, Sifan Hassan, won the world champs 10k over the weekend.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (4 Nov 2019)

WADA to investigate all athletes trained by Salazar.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/50286638


----------



## Shadow (6 Nov 2019)

_Another _young eejit.

I know next to nothing of the NBA but they play so many games a season that a 25 game ban is barely even a slap on the wrist.


----------



## AndyRM (6 Nov 2019)

Shadow said:


> _Another _young eejit.
> 
> I know next to nothing of the NBA but they play so many games a season that a 25 game ban is barely even a slap on the wrist.



82 games in a season, so a 25 match ban is a pretty hefty punishment.


----------



## Shadow (6 Nov 2019)

AndyRM said:


> 82 games in a season, so a 25 match ban is a pretty hefty punishment.


We disagree. 
That is less than one third of a season. In cycling terms maybe a Grand Tour and a couple of other races. Hardly a deterrent.


----------



## themosquitoking (6 Nov 2019)

AndyRM said:


> 82 games in a season, so a 25 match ban is a pretty hefty punishment.


A season is only six months long so it's less than a two month ban.


----------



## AndyRM (6 Nov 2019)

Shadow said:


> We disagree.
> That is less than one third of a season. In cycling terms maybe a Grand Tour and a couple of other races. Hardly a deterrent.



Comparing cycling to basketball is like comparing cucumbers to spaniels.


----------



## mjr (6 Nov 2019)

Shadow said:


> We disagree.
> That is less than one third of a season. In cycling terms maybe a Grand Tour and a couple of other races. Hardly a deterrent.


Indeed. Not even six months. Much less than the usual two years.


----------



## rich p (7 Nov 2019)

I suppose it's sufficient if you believe it's an accidental ingestion of a tainted supplement but insufficient by a large margin if you don't.


----------



## rich p (10 Dec 2019)

Them damn Russkies have been banned again. And they're still in denial. Tossers


----------



## Adam4868 (10 Dec 2019)

rich p said:


> Them damn Russkies have been banned again. And they're still in denial. Tossers


Bizzare bit,I was listening yesterday that if some sportsmen/women prove their clean maybe they could compete under a neutral flag ? 
Russian footy team ?


----------



## rich p (10 Dec 2019)

Adam4868 said:


> Bizzare bit,I was listening yesterday that if some sportsmen/women prove their clean maybe they could compete under a neutral flag ?
> Russian footy team ?


I think I read that the Euros football doesn't count as a major sporting event, so is exempt!
Neither would it affect Russian cyclists I assume.


----------



## Adam4868 (10 Dec 2019)

rich p said:


> I think I read that the Euros football doesn't count as a major sporting event, so is exempt!
> Neither would it affect Russian cyclists I assume.


Phew...I like Zakarin


----------



## rich p (10 Dec 2019)

Adam4868 said:


> Phew...I like Zakarin


Sweet


----------



## Adam4868 (10 Dec 2019)

rich p said:


> I think I read that the Euros football doesn't count as a major sporting event, so is exempt!
> Neither would it affect Russian cyclists I assume.


It was this I was reading sorry l,about world cup.Pretty strange you could have the team as long as no flag ECT.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50716196


----------



## rich p (10 Dec 2019)

Adam4868 said:


> It was this I was reading sorry l,about world cup.Pretty strange you could have the team as long as no flag ECT.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50716196


What a nonsense!


----------



## Adam4868 (10 Dec 2019)

rich p said:


> What a nonsense!


So if your clean/test clean you could compete as long as not in your countrys strip/flag.That makes sense....


----------



## rich p (31 Jan 2020)

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/spanish-civil-guard-dismantles-massive-epo-trafficking-network/

I wonder if this EPO bust in Spain will throw up some more dopers. Cyclists and otherwise


----------



## Beebo (24 Feb 2020)

Mo Farah is under the spotlight again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/51591701
It just shows that athletes will inject anything as long as it isn’t currently on the banned list.


----------



## mjr (24 Feb 2020)

Beebo said:


> Mo Farah is under the spotlight again.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/51591701
> It just shows that athletes will inject anything as long as it isn’t currently on the banned list.


Equally worrying is the presence of another doctor not keeping full records.


----------



## johnblack (24 Feb 2020)

More police raids at the Biathlon WC
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1090908/loginov-raided-by-italian-police
Now I love the Biathlon and they are amazing athletes, but doping is just what they do, this chap has already served one ban, it would be zero surprise if he's having another go.


----------



## johnblack (24 Feb 2020)

Beebo said:


> Mo Farah is under the spotlight again.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/51591701
> It just shows that athletes will inject anything as long as it isn’t currently on the banned list.


His story is of events is pretty hard to have any faith in.


----------



## rich p (24 Feb 2020)

johnblack said:


> More police raids at the Biathlon WC
> https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1090908/loginov-raided-by-italian-police
> Now I love the Biathlon and they are amazing athletes, but doping is just what they do, this chap has already served one ban, it would be zero surprise if he's having another go.


After your post, I checked on biathlon (which I also watch occasionally) and saw this...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/51514973

Not sure why or how it took so long to nail gim.


----------



## Shadow (6 Aug 2020)

This thread has been quiet the last few months and yet Luke Traynor received a 2 year ban in june apparently.

Main reason for this post is *here*; we have an interesting development for 'social junkies'.


----------



## Adam4868 (6 Aug 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> For those who don't (as I didn't) know, Luke Traynor a runner who got a 2 year ban for cocaine


What's running


----------



## matticus (6 Aug 2020)

I admit I've never heard of Luke Traynor. But I had heard of Wilson Kipsang:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/53271833


----------



## DRM (6 Aug 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> What's running


isn't it what crooks do when the police turn up


----------



## Adam4868 (6 Aug 2020)

DRM said:


> isn't it what crooks do when the police turn up


How common...they use Corsas round here 😁


----------



## DRM (6 Aug 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> How common...they use Corsas round here 😁


round here it's the last chance saloon, when the Corsa starts err "failing to proceed"


----------



## mjr (6 Aug 2020)

matticus said:


> I admit I've never heard of Luke Traynor. But I had heard of Wilson Kipsang:
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/53271833


"In recent years, Kenya's 2008 Olympic 1500m champion Asbel Kiprop, former Boston and Chicago Marathon winner Rita Jeptoo and 2016 Olympic marathon champion Jemima Sumgong have all been sanctioned."

Oh well, I expect Ineos checked that record breaking Kenyan marathon runner thoroughly!


----------



## Shadow (2 Mar 2021)

Been a while since any postings here. Because less athletes are being tested or less interest since thread moved?

Anyway, gotta love *this* one! 'Bahrain runner Jepkosgei banned for 3 years after faking car crash to miss doping test'.


----------



## mjr (11 May 2021)

Apparently, dope tests are now "cancel culture" https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification


----------



## BrumJim (11 May 2021)

mjr said:


> Apparently, dope tests are now "cancel culture" https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification


No longer "Political Correctness Gone Mad" then?


----------



## Beebo (11 May 2021)

mjr said:


> Apparently, dope tests are now "cancel culture" https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification


It’s not as if his horses have failed 30 previous drug tests!
Imagine if an athletics coach had that sort of record! I’m looking at you Salazar.


----------



## PaulB (6 Jun 2021)

Dutch athlete Sifan Hassan broke the women's world record for the 10,000 metres today. Apparently, she clocked a time of 29 minutes 6.82 seconds. The thing is, almost everyone associated with the sport was highly suspicious of the previous record - ten seconds slower than today's time - so her victory in this race today hasn't generated anything like the euphoria it would have say ten years ago. People look at a shattering of a world record like this with a 'yeah, right!' attitude. Comments about her achievements today are firmly on the sceptical side from what I've been reading.

What a shame this would be if her record was legitimate but people are too long in the tooth now to want to be more disillusioned about her time if it later (in some cases, _years _later) turns out to be bent. 

It's the money that's ruined this once glorious sport. It should have remained firmly amateur.


----------



## Beebo (7 Jun 2021)

PaulB said:


> It's the money that's ruined this once glorious sport. It should have remained firmly amateur.



This could be applied to every profession sport. Why would you seek to deny the athletes a chance to make money? 

This world record was done on a track which is known to be fast, with modern footwear technology and special LED lights which showed the WR pace on the floor. All this would help. 
On the other hand 10 seconds is essentially almost half a second a lap every lap, which is a big time gap.

I am happy to believe it to be true until proved otherwise.


----------



## Beebo (10 Jun 2021)

PaulB said:


> Dutch athlete Sifan Hassan broke the women's world record for the 10,000 metres today. Apparently, she clocked a time of 29 minutes 6.82 seconds. The thing is, almost everyone associated with the sport was highly suspicious of the previous record - ten seconds slower than today's time - so her victory in this race today hasn't generated anything like the euphoria it would have say ten years ago. People look at a shattering of a world record like this with a 'yeah, right!' attitude. Comments about her achievements today are firmly on the sceptical side from what I've been reading.
> 
> What a shame this would be if her record was legitimate but people are too long in the tooth now to want to be more disillusioned about her time if it later (in some cases, _years _later) turns out to be bent.
> 
> It's the money that's ruined this once glorious sport. It should have remained firmly amateur.


And her record only stood for 3 days until an Ethiopian athlete broke it. Gutted.


----------



## Tom... (16 Jun 2021)

Be careful when consuming burritos...

https://news.sky.com/story/shelby-h...ositive-drugs-test-on-eating-burrito-12333484


----------



## Cathryn (17 Jun 2021)

Tom... said:


> Be careful when consuming burritos...
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/shelby-h...ositive-drugs-test-on-eating-burrito-12333484


 This is an intriguing situation. I clearly have no idea if she's innocent or guilty but it's been interesting how America has rushed to defend her versus their attitude to other nations' dopers. I recognise that own bias in myself and it's been a really thought-provoking situation.


----------



## Beebo (2 Jul 2021)

Drug ban for cannabis in US sprinter who will miss Olympics and was a clear medal hope. 
Seems a bit unfair as it’s hardly performance enhancing to your 100m sprint times.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/57692193


----------



## Beebo (2 Jul 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> Why, then, is it on the WADA list I wonder? I remember a skier got pinged for it at or after the Olympics a while ago.
> 
> Edit. To answer my own question, WADA say ...
> _Recent advances in understanding the endogenous cannabinoid system demonstrate its
> ...


Apparently it’s only been banned since 1999.


----------



## mjr (3 Jul 2021)

Beebo said:


> Apparently it’s only been banned since 1999.


I guess all the partying gave them more data ;-)


----------



## matticus (3 Jul 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> Why, then, is it on the WADA list I wonder? I remember a skier got pinged for it at or after the Olympics a while ago.
> 
> Edit. To answer my own question, WADA say (Cannabis in Sport:Anti-Doping Perspective 2011) ...
> _Recent advances in understanding the endogenous cannabinoid system demonstrate its_​_important role in many critical functions that could positively affect sports performance._​_This fact, together with the detrimental health effects of cannabis and its violation of the_​_spirit of sport, supports the prohibition of cannabis and its analogues_​
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3717337/pdf/nihms486945.pdf


I don't find that very convincing to be honest!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (12 Aug 2021)

UK Silver under threat. Ujah's going to be popular with his 3 other sprint relay runners. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-chijindu-ujah-suspended-for-doping-violation


----------



## Chromatic (12 Aug 2021)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> UK Silver under threat. Ujah's going to be popular with his 3 other sprint relay runners. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-chijindu-ujah-suspended-for-doping-violation


Very disappointing isn't it?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (12 Aug 2021)

Chromatic said:


> Very disappointing isn't it?


More than disappointing, disgraceful.


----------



## Chromatic (12 Aug 2021)

I was using Understatement.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understatement


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (12 Aug 2021)

Chromatic said:


> I was using Understatement.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understatement


Or litotes, a form of rhetoric on steroids.


----------



## Beebo (12 Aug 2021)

About as popular as Dwayne Chambers.

clearly he is innocent until proven otherwise, but sprint relay does rely on the other 3 being clean.


----------



## Milkfloat (12 Aug 2021)

Would be the first summer games medal stripped from us, a real shame and a rightly or wrongly increases suspicion on other athletes.


----------



## PaulB (18 Aug 2021)

We've got Linford Christie moaning in the Daily Express (don't laugh) this morning that he wasn't knighted because of his colour! Nothing to do with the record amount of Nandrolone ever detected in an athlete, then?


----------



## Bonefish Blues (18 Aug 2021)

PaulB said:


> We've got Linford Christie moaning in the Daily Express (don't laugh) this morning that he wasn't knighted because of his colour! Nothing to do with the record amount of Nandrolone ever detected in an athlete, then?


Seriously? Is embarassing.


----------



## Beebo (18 Aug 2021)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Seriously? Is embarassing.


Daley Thompson hasn’t been knighted. 
You’d expect him to be a bit further up the ladder than Linford.


----------



## Bonefish Blues (18 Aug 2021)

Beebo said:


> Daley Thompson hasn’t been knighted.
> You’d expect him to be a bit further up the ladder than Linford.


That does puzzle me slightly more than the over-stimulated Linford - but one doesn't whistle the National Anthem, does one


----------



## BalkanExpress (7 Feb 2022)

The winter Olympics are underway so we can expect a, ahem, blizzard of doping stories ...

To start the (snow)ball rolling, first gold of the games to a Norwegian who failed to read the list of active substances in her lip salve

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...d-medal-won-by-convicted-doper-therese-johaug


----------



## BalkanExpress (9 Feb 2022)

looks like someone is skating on thin ice...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ny-for-russian-figure-skating-winter-olympics


----------



## Bollo (9 Feb 2022)

BalkanExpress said:


> looks like someone is skating on thin ice...
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ny-for-russian-figure-skating-winter-olympics


My daughter used to skate at a decent enough level and one or two skaters at her rink competed at a national level, including the British junior champion of the day.

Behind the sequins and makeup figure skating is a mean and nasty sport (I sat through “I Tonya” just going ‘Yep. Yep. That’). My suspicion would misuse of pain medication to deal with the many injuries, but whonose. Always seems to happen to the Russians ROC though. Such bad luck.


----------



## cyberknight (10 Feb 2022)

latest would come under mechanical doping ?
speed skating coachesfrom one country asking the ice rink bosses to make the ice harder as it suits their atheletes


----------



## Bollo (11 Feb 2022)

Bollo said:


> My daughter used to skate at a decent enough level and one or two skaters at her rink competed at a national level, including the British junior champion of the day.
> 
> Behind the sequins and makeup figure skating is a mean and nasty sport (I sat through “I Tonya” just going ‘Yep. Yep. That’). My suspicion would misuse of pain medication to deal with the many injuries, but whonose. Always seems to happen to the Russians ROC though. Such bad luck.


Turns out I was wrong - I know, someone on the internet admitting error. It’ll probably bring it down - but reports now say that the Russian skater Kamila Valieva has tested positive for trimetazidine, which according to the beeb

“is used in the prevention of angina attacks, but is on the banned list because it is classed as a cardiac metabolic modulator and has been proven to improve physical efficiency.”

Given that she’s a world class 15 year old athlete and there was no medical exemption in place, you have to ask what legitimate reason there could be for taking an angina drug.

TBH I think she’s more victim than perp. You’ve got to ask what agency she has as someone in their mid teens who’s likely been hothoused since she could stand. Ban the coaching team for life - head coach, physio, choreographer - the lot. They’ll all have known if this was going on.


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## DRM (11 Feb 2022)

Bollo said:


> Turns out I was wrong - I know, someone on the internet admitting error. It’ll probably bring it down - but reports now say that the Russian skater Kamila Valieva has tested positive for trimetazidine, which according to the beeb
> 
> “is used in the prevention of angina attacks, but is on the banned list because it is classed as a cardiac metabolic modulator and has been proven to improve physical efficiency.”
> 
> ...


Ban the whole country, it’s been going on for decades, with the old Soviet Union and East Germany in particular, doping is out of order, but doping school kids is utterly abhorrent , I shudder to think of how many kids have been damaged by these practices and dumped on the scrap heap before they were even eligible to leave school, even their athletes were professional in everything but name long before the olympics were open to pro athletes


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## Chromatic (11 Feb 2022)

Apparently there's been a 'misunderstanding'. So that's alright then, nothing to see here.


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## Dogtrousers (11 Feb 2022)

DRM said:


> Ban the whole country,


I think they have, haven't they? We don't get Russia, because they're banned. But we do get ROC, and those two special letters make all the difference and everything is fine because ... er ... because ... well it just is ... OK?


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## vickster (12 Feb 2022)

Bollo said:


> Turns out I was wrong - I know, someone on the internet admitting error. It’ll probably bring it down - but reports now say that the Russian skater Kamila Valieva has tested positive for trimetazidine, which according to the beeb
> 
> “is used in the prevention of angina attacks, but is on the banned list because it is classed as a cardiac metabolic modulator and has been proven to improve physical efficiency.”
> 
> ...


Winter Olympics: Kamila Valieva 'entourage' investigation would be welcome - IOC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/60358382


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## MrGrumpy (12 Feb 2022)

vickster said:


> Winter Olympics: Kamila Valieva 'entourage' investigation would be welcome - IOC
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/



Absolutely they should . What good will come who knows .


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## steveindenmark (12 Feb 2022)

Kamila Valieva is only 15 years old. Her coach has a previous record of pushing very young athletes to extremes. The ROC knew Kamila had failed a drug test and stripped her of the Russian Championships, which she won in December. But still sent her to the Olympics. This is in the middle of a 2 year International ban for Russia.

It would be no shock to see the ROC team disqualified from the team event, which they have already won gold in. I would expect Kamila to be banned from the singles event next week. She has been taken advantage of and it is a shame as she is superb. What is sad is that it is expected that the team medals will not be handed out at the Olympics because of "Legal issues". I feel sorry for those who have worked hard legally for years and won medals. They will not get their moment on the Olympic podium as they deserve.

Some of Kamilas team should face criminal charges imo.


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## PaulB (12 Feb 2022)

DRM said:


> Ban the whole country, it’s been going on for decades, with the old Soviet Union and East Germany in particular, doping is out of order, but doping school kids is utterly abhorrent , I shudder to think of how many kids have been damaged by these practices and dumped on the scrap heap before they were even eligible to leave school, even their athletes were professional in everything but name long before the olympics were open to pro athletes


There are stories circulating claiming the drug testers of Valieva have received death threats. 

The British journalists who revealed this failed test to the press have been openly threatened by Russian journalists who've warned them to check their tea for Polonium. Other British journalists in Beijing have been warned by Russian journalists not to cross them as they'll regret doing so, apparently.


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## Arrowfoot (12 Feb 2022)

What is interesting is why the WADA lab in Stockholm which has nothing to do with Russia take weeks to do the test or reveal the results. . Sample taken on 25 Dec, results issued on 8th Feb. Talk about timing!


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## DRM (12 Feb 2022)

PaulB said:


> There are stories circulating claiming the drug testers of Valieva have received death threats.
> 
> The British journalists who revealed this failed test to the press have been openly threatened by Russian journalists who've warned them to check their tea for Polonium. Other British journalists in Beijing have been warned by Russian journalists not to cross them as they'll regret doing so, apparently.


I’m not surprised at that, I’ve seen the documentary Icarus on netflix which was basically this, the Russian anti doping guy featured was smuggled out to the U.S in fear of his life


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## DRM (12 Feb 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> I think they have, haven't they? We don't get Russia, because they're banned. But we do get ROC, and those two special letters make all the difference and everything is fine because ... er ... because ... well it just is ... OK?


That’s what I mean, if you’re Russian, your not competing, stay at home, R.O.C, Russia, CCCP, whatever you call it, you’re not welcome


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## Arrowfoot (12 Feb 2022)

DRM said:


> That’s what I mean, if you’re Russian, your not competing, stay at home, R.O.C, Russia, CCCP, whatever you call it, you’re not welcome


ROC was formed so innocent athletes are allowed to compete. Unfortunately it makes little difference. Agree that its time to ban the country no matter what they call themselves.


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## DRM (12 Feb 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> ROC was formed so innocent athletes are allowed to compete. Unfortunately it makes little difference. Agree that its time to ban the country not matter wha they call themselves.


They’ve proved they can’t be trusted, in the words of Sarah Brightman & Andrea Bocelli, Time to say goodbye


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## KnittyNorah (12 Feb 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> What is interesting is why the WADA lab in Stockholm which has nothing to do with Russia take weeks to do the test or reveal the results. . Sample taken on 25 Dec, results issued on 8th Feb. Talk about timing!


Probably to get sufficient time to develop safe cover stories, modes of travel etc for those who do the actual work of testing ...


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## Arrowfoot (12 Feb 2022)

I still rankled by thought the doped a minor. She probably has no clue she has been doped. Reminds me of East Germany.


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## MrGrumpy (12 Feb 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> I still rankled by thought they doped a minor. She probably has no clue she has been doped. Reminds me of East Germany.


Yep or coerced into it .


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## Time Waster (12 Feb 2022)

15 year old are young but not completely stupid. They will know anti doping places responsibility on the athlete alone so whether you're young or old you'll know to make sure of what you're doing.


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## DRM (12 Feb 2022)

Time Waster said:


> 15 year old are young but not completely stupid. They will know anti doping places responsibility on the athlete alone so whether you're young or old you'll know to make sure of what you're doing.


But they will have been told it’s all taken care of, in the Icarus documentary it was astounding that the Russians were able to take a sealed sample jar and work out how to open it without leaving any telltale evidence of damage, and the extent of rigging the sample cupboard in order to remove the samples locked inside, open the jar, swap the contents and replace the lid, all under WADA’s noses, the worst bit was Putin sat smirking at the news conference when it all came to light and was being denied


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## mjr (13 Feb 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> What is interesting is why the WADA lab in Stockholm which has nothing to do with Russia take weeks to do the test or reveal the results. . Sample taken on 25 Dec, results issued on 8th Feb. Talk about timing!


Somewhere in one of the links above it said the ROC were notified of the results earlier but WADA does not publish doping results for minors, but now it has leaked out after ROC selected her. Total mess! Makes you realise the UCI isn't doing so bad recently.


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## Beebo (14 Feb 2022)

It’s a total mess. She is being allowed to skate in the individual event with this hanging over her. 
If she was over 18 she would be suspended instantly. 
I only hope she doesn’t finish in the medals or this will just get even more messy.


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## vickster (14 Feb 2022)

Time Waster said:


> 15 year old are young but not completely stupid. They will know anti doping places responsibility on the athlete alone so whether you're young or old you'll know to make sure of what you're doing.


Maybe so here, maybe less so in Russia where she will have been hot housed from a very young age and probably doesn't question the pill or injection given by coach or doctor if they lied about what it was. All very sad


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## Milkfloat (14 Feb 2022)

Beebo said:


> It’s a total mess. She is being allowed to skate in the individual event with this hanging over her.
> If she was over 18 she would be suspended instantly.
> I only hope she doesn’t finish in the medals or this will just get even more messy.


She is pretty likely to win, or was until she has to deal with all this, who knows how it will affect her now.

The delay in test results has been put down to Covid in Sweden which I guess is believable, without going all tinfoil hat, I wonder if the political situation between the West and Russia has any part to play.


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## matticus (14 Feb 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> ROC was formed so innocent athletes are allowed to compete. Unfortunately it makes little difference. Agree that its time to ban the country no matter what they call themselves.


Yeah.
I didn't follow the detail of how the "ROC" was setup, but the intention sounded honourable.
How it's turned out seems an utter farce.


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## Dogtrousers (14 Feb 2022)

matticus said:


> Yeah.
> I didn't follow the detail of how the "ROC" was setup, but the intention sounded honourable.
> How it's turned out seems an utter farce.


I think the history is that some of the Russians were pretty dodgy. But some were OK. So they just asked them, "are you OK?" And if they said yes, then they were in the Russian OK team. ROK became ROC due to the Cyrillic alphabet.

Probably.


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## matticus (14 Feb 2022)

When I first saw ROC in the medals table I assumed "republic of china"


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## Time Waster (14 Feb 2022)

I thought Russian Olympic committee and thought it might be run by vetted Russian Olympic coaches or other Olympic officials. Never believed it made one jot of a difference. Russian athletes have Russian coaches and are part of the Russian apparatus of power and control. Everyone in Russia is available to be used for the national "good". Exclusion isn't going to work and neither is inclusion.

My only suggestion is over zealous testing and an anti libertarian view that they're guilty unless proven otherwise, in which case that kid wouldn't have even made it to the Olympics let alone get a young person pass from the CAS!


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## bitsandbobs (14 Feb 2022)

matticus said:


> When I first saw ROC in the medals table I assumed "republic of china"



Theres no way China would allow that and no way the IOC would challenge them on it.

I think the last "ROC" athletes competed in 1984.


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## vickster (17 Feb 2022)

By not winning a medal, she's probably saved herself a lot of aggro (still hope they go after her 'team' though)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/60399342


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## Jenkins (17 Feb 2022)

I suppose that's what happens when you forget to take someone else's medicine.


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## vickster (18 Feb 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/60437373


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## Dogtrousers (18 Feb 2022)

vickster said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/60437373


An explanation of that link

_Great Britain have been stripped of the silver medal won in the 4x100m relay at last summer's Tokyo Olympics after team member CJ Ujah was found to have committed a doping violation._


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## vickster (18 Feb 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> An explanation of that link
> 
> _Great Britain have been stripped of the silver medal won in the 4x100m relay at last summer's Tokyo Olympics after team member CJ Ujah was found to have committed a doping violation._


Ta, normally it adds the headline


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## matticus (19 Feb 2022)

Bloody sprinters:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60445366


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## MrGrumpy (19 Feb 2022)

matticus said:


> Bloody sprinters:
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60445366


He didn’t test positive for anything other than being an idiot


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## PaulB (16 May 2022)

matticus said:


> Bloody sprinters:
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60445366



Lucky boy to get a suspended sentence. Especially when another criminal involved in the same enterprise got 26 years!


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## Richard A Thackeray (30 Aug 2022)

There was a programme on the '_BBC_ _World Service_' a couple of weeks ago, about how some f**tballist clubs have (I think) 65% of their big-jessies on asthma treatments
The UK population on prescribed treatments is an average of 12%?

It was postulated that it was an attempt to get_ TUE_s, in order to improve performance

Interesting.....................


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## matticus (30 Aug 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> There was a programme on the '_BBC_ _World Service_' a couple of weeks ago, about how some f**tballist clubs have (I think) 65% of their big-jessies on asthma treatments
> The UK population on prescribed treatments is an average of 12%?
> 
> It was postulated that it was an attempt to get_ TUE_s, in order to improve performance


I'm shocked.

SHOCKED I tell ya!


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