# How did I crack my carbon frame?



## QED (18 May 2015)

Hello, I'm a road cycling newbie with a question for the cyclechat hivemind:

The top tube of my Planet X Pro Carbon cracked in 3 places in the middle. 

It was only 10 months old and still under warranty, but Planet X has refused to honour the warranty because they claim they have never seen such a break and it must have been caused by being improperly "clamped" or misused. I don't own a bike stand and have never clamped it to anything. It has been serviced by 2 reputable local bike shops that handle carbon frames every day. Planet X then said that the damage could have occurred from sitting on the top tube. I've never done that. I then thought it might be the Saris Bones 2 bike rack I used. I called the manufacturer and they assured me it was safe for carbon bikes. I have never crashed (on this bike). 

Can anyone help me diagnose what, if anything, I might have done to cause the fracture on my top tube? 

Thanks in advance for your help.


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## ayceejay (18 May 2015)

Clamping does sound like the most obvious I must say but I think it is something that needs closer inspection by an unbiased party, if Planet X won't have a look. perhaps you could post a photo?


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## Onyer (18 May 2015)

Could something heavy have dropped on it?


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## Citius (18 May 2015)

I can see where they (PX) are coming from and I would probably have the same reaction initially. Further comment not possible without pics.


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## Drago (18 May 2015)

It's up to Planet X to prove it wasn't, not you to prove it was.


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## TheJDog (19 May 2015)

My pro carbon frame cracked at the BB and they replaced it no questions asked. Sorry that's not all that helpful.


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## Globalti (19 May 2015)

They have fobbed you off. Find out the name and address of their MD and write a clear, polite and business-like letter, delivered by recorded post, with pictures enclosed and explain why you are dissatisfied. Ask them to examine the frame and if they refuse, ask them to nominate an independent engineer, with the understanding that if the engineer finds in their favour you will drop the case but if he finds in your favour they must agree to pay his fees *and* replace the frame.

Ask on here if you need advice on the wording of the letter.


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## Leodis (19 May 2015)

Its an odd place for it to crack. Being a reputable LBS is all fine and well but we all make mistakes and maybe they clamped the frame rather than seat post? That sounds like the most plausible explanation as to how the frame has been damaged.


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## Drago (19 May 2015)

Get the small claims forms from your local County Court website. Fill them out for the cost of a new bike, and send a copy to their MD by recorded delivery giving them 7 days to undertake to replace the bike or frame, or you will lodge the forms with the court. Inform them you will henceforth be adding 20 sovs to the bill for every letter, phone call. Email, or shop visit you have to conduct in order to resolve the matter to cover the value of your time.

Worked for me once with a car.


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## _aD (19 May 2015)

Drago said:


> It's up to Planet X to prove it wasn't, not you to prove it was.


My understanding of the SOGA is that it's Planet X's job to prove it was the customer until six months have elapsed. After six months, the onus is on the customer. IYAM the onus is also on the customer to then decide the supplier is an unprofessional, recalcitrant waste of space and ensure they're named and shamed.


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## Drago (19 May 2015)

That's SOGA as it applies to used cars.


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## Arjimlad (19 May 2015)

That rule is in the European legislation & applies not only to cars but to other goods such as bikes.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/c...-goods-if-you-want-a-repair-or-a-replacement/


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## QED (19 May 2015)

Update and picture below. Thank you all for the helpful advice.

*Update*: I spoke to a manager and Planet X is still refusing to honour the warranty. They offered to replace the frame, rebuild the bike and send it back to me for £150 (original cost of frame £500, currently on sale on their website for £250). Since they have had my bike for 36 days and totally refused to budge on the warranty, they have my bike hostage, so I am paying the money to get my bike back. (and reserving the right to sue them in small claims court later.)

I have thought long and hard about how else this might have happened to my bike and the only time it has ever left my sight and control was when I took the Eurostar and checked it in. I packed it in bubble wrap, cardboard and duct tape and put it in a Planet X bike bag but it might have been thrown around or had something heavy drop on it in transit.

Conclusion: I don't know how this happened and Planet X can't possibly know how this happened (particularly as they never spoke to me about it before they refused to honour the warranty). My opinion, based on my experience, is that I can recommend Planet X bikes for their fantastic price: quality ratio and a great ride. But despite al their nice words about service on their website, taking over 30 days to deny a warranty claim is horrible customer service. My opinion based on my experience is that they do not stand behind their product or their warranty. They appeared to me be much more concerned about whether they were liable to replace the frame rather than finding out what the problem was or being concerned about their frame shearing on a ride and putting me in danger of serious injury. 

Pics for those still interested:


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## QED (19 May 2015)

Another picture. Planet X tell me there were 3 cracks in the top tube (in the middle).


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## QED (19 May 2015)

Last Picture:


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## Smokin Joe (19 May 2015)

Leodis said:


> Its an odd place for it to crack. Being a reputable LBS is all fine and well but we all make mistakes and maybe they clamped the frame rather than seat post? That sounds like the most plausible explanation as to how the frame has been damaged.


I agree.

The stress on a frame is nearly all at the tube junctions, there is very little through the middle of the top tube.


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## Leodis (19 May 2015)

QED, can you post some pictures of the damage please?


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## w00hoo_kent (19 May 2015)

Have you quizzed the LBS's that worked on it? Checked the Saturday staff didn't sneak in and do some work on it?


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## Leodis (19 May 2015)

Got a feeling we wont be seeing the OP again. I can 100% see why PX wont replace, its not a natural area on a frame to brake without pressure.


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## screenman (19 May 2015)

Do you think he is in the trade?


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## Leodis (19 May 2015)

No idea, just odd to ask the question, come back online on CC and not reply to questions. There was a thread like this before I am sure, different bike and rider but wanted frame replacement and when the pictures appeared it was obviously crash damage on a MTB, not saying the OP crashed.

Where on the top tube is cracked? Has the LBS checked the frame? Could it be paint cracks? Have you popped into the LBS and had a sneaky look as to where they clamp bikes?


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## QED (19 May 2015)

Leodis said:


> QED, can you post some pictures of the damage please?



W00hoo_Kent: Please see 3 pictures posted above


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## QED (19 May 2015)

Leodis said:


> No idea, just odd to ask the question, come back online on CC and not reply to questions. There was a thread like this before I am sure, different bike and rider but wanted frame replacement and when the pictures appeared it was obviously crash damage on a MTB, not saying the OP crashed.
> 
> Where on the top tube is cracked? Has the LBS checked the frame? Could it be paint cracks? Have you popped into the LBS and had a sneaky look as to where they clamp bikes?



Hi Leodis, I have come back, updated and posted pics as requested (please see above). And no, I have never crashed (this bike). Going to dinner now but will be happy to answer any questions I missed tonight/tomorrow morning.


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## QED (19 May 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> Have you quizzed the LBS's that worked on it? Checked the Saturday staff didn't sneak in and do some work on it?



That's an awkward conversation: "hi guys, I just want to check that you guys aren't totally incompetent handling carbon frames when you have been in business for 28 years and sell bikes worth 3 to 5 times mine"


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## QED (19 May 2015)

To all of you waiting for replies, I am a newbie to the site so all my responses are held up by moderation. I will definitely answer everyone's questions. Thanks for the feedback so far.


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## Citius (19 May 2015)

I thought originally it sounded like it might have been clamping damage. I still reckon it was. The other possibility (now it's been mentioned) sounds like it might have been on Eurostar.

Either way, PX are not liable for either of those occurrences. Manufacturing fault is unlikely as this is a widely-used, reliable, mass produced open mould carbon frame. Any other weakness/damage like this would have been picked up on the internet.


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## djb1971 (19 May 2015)

I think the £150 frame and parts swap is a fair offer. It could be a fault, it could be a clamping crush etc. etc.


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## Citius (19 May 2015)

djb1971 said:


> I think the £150 frame and parts swap is a fair offer. It could be a fault, it could be a clamping crush etc. etc.



As above - I'd take the offer.


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## User16625 (19 May 2015)

This thread has definitely put me off PX regardless (not that I planned on buying a new bike). Given the circumstances they should have replaced the frame. It seems that the cause of the damage is unknown so cannot be proven either way. I would be extremely pissed off if this happened to my Scott CR1.


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## Citius (19 May 2015)

RideLikeTheStig said:


> This thread has definitely put me off PX regardless (not that I planned on buying a new bike). Given the circumstances they should have replaced the frame. It seems that the cause of the damage is unknown so cannot be proven either way. I would be extremely pissed off if this happened to my Scott CR1.



What a ridiculous thing to say. Given 'what' circumstances? If you want to avoid it happening to your CR1, then simply refrain from clamping it too tightly when it's on the stand.


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## screenman (19 May 2015)

I would put money on it being compression from the top, causing what we in the dent business call a crown. Think of when you push the side of a coke can in and what happens to the left and right of the dent.


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## uclown2002 (19 May 2015)

Citius said:


> What a ridiculous thing to say. Given 'what' circumstances? If you want to avoid it happening to your CR1, then simply refrain from clamping it too tightly when it's on the stand.


 +1


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## Cuchilo (19 May 2015)

screenman said:


> I would put money on it being compression from the top, causing what we in the dent business call a crown. Think of when you push the side of a coke can in and what happens to the left and right of the dent.


Oh Oh I know this one


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## User16625 (19 May 2015)

Citius said:


> What a ridiculous thing to say. Given 'what' circumstances? If you want to avoid it happening to your CR1, then simply refrain from clamping it too tightly when it's on the stand.



As OP stated, he never clamped it. If its true that he never did anything beyond typical use expected of a cyclist, then I believe he is entitled to have this fault rectified under warranty. I dont see anything ridiculous about this. Planet X has been very arsey with the way they handled this complaint. I have had to deal with arsieness once before with a Carrera bike I purchased at Halfords. Fortunately I did eventually get a full refund but it was very frustrating nonetheless. Im with OP on this one.


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## Smokin Joe (19 May 2015)

RideLikeTheStig said:


> As OP stated, he never clamped it. If its true that he never did anything beyond typical use expected of a cyclist, then I believe he is entitled to have this fault rectified under warranty. I dont see anything ridiculous about this. Planet X has been very arsey with the way they handled this complaint. I have had to deal with arsieness once before with a Carrera bike I purchased at Halfords. Fortunately I did eventually get a full refund but it was very frustrating nonetheless. Im with OP on this one.


But he put it into his LBS and they probably did.


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## screenman (19 May 2015)

You can say the OP did not clamp it, you cannot say the bike shops he put it into did not, you could say Eurostar did not damage it but you would not know that either.

PlanetX can see what I can see from here and that is compression damage.


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## ayceejay (19 May 2015)

*"had something heavy drop on it in transit.*" is a strong suspect for the damage shown. I would take their offer.


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## craigwend (19 May 2015)

Is it worth taking it to trading standards for advice?

even though reputable source - planet-x &no other complaints of the same description, does not lead to it not being a one-off' manufacturing fault..

or it could be a clamping issues ...


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## screenman (19 May 2015)

Around here to get through to trading standards you have to call Citizens advice and they will let Trading Substandards know and of course they will not bother to contact you.


Consumers will receive advice directly from the Citizens Advice Consumer Service. Details of all complaints received from Lincolnshire residents or which relate to businesses based in Lincolnshire are recorded and this information is referred to Lincolnshire Trading Standards Service.

We no longer have the capacity to respond to individual complaints however please don’t let this stop you from reporting your complaint. This information is used to investigate the rogue traders that target Lincolnshire consumers and businesses.

Complaint trends are monitored daily and the intelligence is passed to our enforcement teams, enabling us to focus our resources on issues that cause the most harm to consumers and businesses in Lincolnshire. Please see ‘About Trading Standards’ where our current priorities are detailed.

If you are a consumer and wish to obtain advice, make a complaint about goods or services, including safety issues or to report a breach of Trading Standards law, please click the link below that tells you how to contact the Citizens Advice Consumer Service:


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## Globalti (20 May 2015)

From those pictures I would agree that that's certainly crush damage although without examining close up it's hard to say whether from a clamp or something dropped on it.

The frame has been damaged accidentally; so I reckon the offer to rebuild the bike with a new frame for £150 is an excellent one and Planet X will certainly not be making any money out of that. I would pay the money with good grace then learn to do my own servicing, so as to be sure the bike never got abused.

If the OP says Planet X were "arsey" in the way they handled this, has he ever stopped to think how often they must get customers bringing back damaged kit and trying to blame it on Planet X? Even in industrial raw material sales we get customers who screw up and then try to blame us; we investigate complaints almost forensically under ISO then present the evidence and they always go quiet. Sometimes we offer them something ex-gratia like goods at cost in the interest of goodwill because we value their business.


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## vickster (20 May 2015)

Like anything in life, the reaction of a company to an issue or complaint very much depends on how said complaint or issue is presented by the protagonist

It does sound like Px are being reasonable. However, if unhappy and you think you have a strong claim that the goods were defective, get an independent report from an expert (presenting them with all the facts about the case, LBS work, Eurostar transit etc) and if you and they are still convinced it's down to a poor frame, take Px to the small claims court

Bearing in mind, it could well cost you more than £150 and if you lose, you still have a broken bike


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## w00hoo_kent (20 May 2015)

As I've read that, you're paying the £150 to get the bike back sorted. Decide where to go from there. I presume the new frame will have 12 months warranty again?


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## User6179 (20 May 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> As I've read that, you're paying the £150 to get the bike back sorted. Decide where to go from there. I presume the new frame will have 12 months warranty again?



Warranty is from original purchase date usually.


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## e-rider (20 May 2015)

QED said:


> Hello, I'm a road cycling newbie with a question for the cyclechat hivemind:
> 
> The top tube of my Planet X Pro Carbon cracked in 3 places in the middle.
> 
> ...


this is simple - one of the bike shops has clamped this in a stand too hard and in the wrong place! The bike shop is to blame IMO


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## e-rider (20 May 2015)

also, £150 sounds like a good deal for a new frame, and bike completely rebuilt - go for it NOW


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## fossyant (20 May 2015)

Deffo looks like crush damage.


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## djb1971 (20 May 2015)

fossyant said:


> Deffo looks like crush damage.


pic 3 looks like a clamp pinch


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## fossyant (20 May 2015)

djb1971 said:


> pic 3 looks like a clamp pinch



Thing is bike did go on Euro star in a bag... You need a bike box for carbon not a bag.


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## djb1971 (20 May 2015)

either way, I think PX have given the op a great value frame option. They couldve just let him cover the frame cost and the rebuild.

Hope the experience has taught the op a lesson.


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## w00hoo_kent (20 May 2015)

fossyant said:


> Thing is bike did go on Euro star in a bag... You need a bike box for carbon not a bag.



Although it was a Planet X bike bag, so you'd hope (unless the OP owns multiple Planet X bikes) that it was bought for the carbon Planet X bike he owned and if Planet X are happy to sell it without 'this isn't suited for your bike' proviso's then it's hardly the OP's fault.



djb1971 said:


> either way, I think PX have given the op a great value frame option. They couldve just let him cover the frame cost and the rebuild.
> Hope the experience has taught the op a lesson.


Don't post questions here?
It's reconfirmed my personal promise to myself never to buy Carbon. If I ever have oodles of money to throw at a bike, it's titanium for me...


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## djb1971 (20 May 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> Don't post questions here?



if you ask a question, the answer isn't always what you want.


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## w00hoo_kent (20 May 2015)

djb1971 said:


> if you ask a question, the answer isn't always what you want.


OK, what lesson do you hope the experience has taught the OP then?


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## Mugshot (20 May 2015)

So, where should you clamp it?


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## vickster (20 May 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> Although it was a Planet X bike bag, so you'd hope (unless the OP owns multiple Planet X bikes) that it was bought for the carbon Planet X bike he owned and if Planet X are happy to sell it without 'this isn't suited for your bike' proviso's then it's hardly the OP's fault.
> 
> 
> Don't post questions here?
> It's reconfirmed my personal promise to myself never to buy Carbon. If I ever have oodles of money to throw at a bike, it's titanium for me...


If he bought the bag independently of the bike and didn't ask if it was suitable for being chucked around on Eurostar, how on earth would PX know. He may have bought the bag sometime later online


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## vickster (20 May 2015)

Mugshot said:


> So, where should you clamp it?


Seatpost I believe, but presumably this is made more risky if that too is carbon


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## mickle (20 May 2015)

Eddy said:


> Warranty is from original purchase date usually.



Nope - from date that the new replacement product is supplied.


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## mickle (20 May 2015)

vickster said:


> Seatpost I believe, but presumably this is made more risky if that too is carbon



Seatposts are designed to be compressed - by the seat post frame collar.


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## Mugshot (20 May 2015)

vickster said:


> Seatpost I believe, but presumably this is made more risky if that too is carbon



That's what I was thinking.



mickle said:


> Seatposts are designed to be compressed - by the seat post frame collar.



Ah, ok. Is it a stable enough hold for something like a BB?


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## User6179 (20 May 2015)

mickle said:


> Nope - from date that the new replacement product is supplied.



Dirty dogs , I got a Shimano shifter replaced then the replacement knackered but was told the warranty was from original purchase , I now wonder if my replacement frame is still under warranty , what is my chances getting a third one


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## mickle (20 May 2015)

I'm no fan of Planet Ex, or of cheap Taiwanese carbon, but I'm with the supplier on this. The damage is entirely consistent with having been clamped in a workstand. £150 is a great deal and much more reasonable than they need to be. Accept their kind offer and move on.


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## Rob3rt (20 May 2015)

Citius said:


> *What a ridiculous thing to say.* Given 'what' circumstances? If you want to avoid it happening to your CR1, then simply refrain from clamping it too tightly when it's on the stand.



You could say that about pretty much anything he posts...


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## vickster (20 May 2015)

Eddy said:


> Dirty dogs , I got a Shimano shifter replaced then the replacement knackered but was told the warranty was from original purchase , I now wonder if my replacement frame is still under warranty , what is my chances getting a third one


John Lewis warranty for example for TVs lasts from date of purchase. Moral, check Ts&Cs of warranty


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## Citius (20 May 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> It's reconfirmed my personal promise to myself never to buy Carbon. If I ever have oodles of money to throw at a bike, it's titanium for me...



Not sure if you've understood the issue here. It is not a 'carbon' issue - it is an 'over-tension' issue. Any tube, made from any material, will crush if compressed with enough force. I routinely clamp carbon bikes by the top tube. The trick is, I don't over-tighten the clamp.


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## w00hoo_kent (20 May 2015)

The issue for me is you seem to need to treat carbon with kid gloves and I'm a grade A klutz. I rarely see people complaining that their steelie has snapped in three places, but I wouldn't even need to worry Google to find stories of carbon bikes that are now considered unrideable because of worrying boo boos. I'm sure plenty of people can tell me they are totally bullet proof and invincible, but I wouldn't trust me with one.


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## Globalti (20 May 2015)

If you were old enough you'd remember plenty of stories about crushed paper-thin steel tubes. Both materials are extremely strong as structures but easily crushed as tubes.


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## hatler (20 May 2015)

vickster said:


> Seatpost I believe, but presumably this is made more risky if that too is carbon


Seatposts in place are compressed in a perfect world scenario - pressure applied around the whole circumference equally.

Workstand clamps don't apply pressure uniformly, so I understand that the SOP for clamping a carbon bike in a workstand is to insert a metal seatpost and then clamp the stand to that.


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## QED (20 May 2015)

Citius said:


> What a ridiculous thing to say. Given 'what' circumstances? If you want to avoid it happening to your CR1, then simply refrain from clamping it too tightly when it's on the stand.



I have never clamped my bike. I don't even own a bike stand. So unless a reputable LBS did it, that's not what happened to my planet X.


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## QED (20 May 2015)

ayceejay said:


> Clamping does sound like the most obvious I must say but I think it is something that needs closer inspection by an unbiased party, if Planet X won't have a look. perhaps you could post a photo?



Photos posted below


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## w00hoo_kent (20 May 2015)

Out of interest, which reputable LBS are you using?

Photo's start here by the way


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## Citius (20 May 2015)

QED said:


> I have never clamped my bike. I don't even own a bike stand. So unless a reputable LBS did it, that's not what happened to my planet X.



Whatever you say - but frames do not fail like that unless they have been crushed somehow.


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## QED (20 May 2015)

Citius said:


> As above - I'd take the offer.



Citius and djb1971:

I have taken the offer of £150 for a new frame, swapping the bits and sending it back to me. Once I saw the feedback here and got over my initial anger at Planet X's refusal to honour the warranty I realised this was reasonable-ish given that no one knows how the damage actually happened.

I probably would have been a lot less annoyed if it hadn't taken them 30 days to assess my bike, tell me the frame was a write off then blamed me for it and refused to honour the warranty on a 10 month old frame.


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## Globalti (20 May 2015)

So as I wrote earlier in this thread, learn to service your own bikes. That way you can be sure the LBS owner hasn't handed them over to the trainee. I was asked yesterday to go and look at a friend's bike - the friend had just paid £380 for a "service" and couldn't understand why the bike was rattling and the rear wheel rubbing on the frame. It took me 20 seconds to work out that both wheel bearings and the steerer were so loose that there was an inch of play in each. I can't understand how a bike shop could hand a bike back so badly out of adjustment.


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## QED (20 May 2015)

fossyant said:


> Thing is bike did go on Euro star in a bag... You need a bike box for carbon not a bag.



Noted. Will do. Any recommendations for a bike box with a good price:quality ratio?


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## QED (20 May 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> Out of interest, which reputable LBS are you using?
> 
> Photo's start here by the way



Chamberlain/Giant Kentish Town, London (in business for 28 years, sells carbon bikes that cost 5 times the cost of mine)

Lunar Cycles, Kentish Town London (recommended by far more experienced carbon bike owning mates)


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## Citius (20 May 2015)

QED said:


> Chamberlain/Giant Kentish Town, London (in business for 28 years, sells carbon bikes that cost 5 times the cost of mine)
> 
> Lunar Cycles, Kentish Town London (recommended by far more experienced carbon bike owning mates)



The relative value of the bikes they sell is no guarantee that the mechanics are infallible.


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## QED (20 May 2015)

mickle said:


> I'm no fan of Planet Ex, or of cheap Taiwanese carbon, but I'm with the supplier on this. The damage is entirely consistent with having been clamped in a workstand. £150 is a great deal and much more reasonable than they need to be. Accept their kind offer and move on.


I have done.


djb1971 said:


> either way, I think PX have given the op a great value frame option. They couldve just let him cover the frame cost and the rebuild.
> 
> Hope the experience has taught the op a lesson.



What lesson do *you* think I should have learned?

I have learned that either "reputable" local bike shop and/or Eurostar destroyed my frame.

I have learned that a bike bag is not good enough, I need a bike box which apparently costs about the same as the list price of the carbon frame.

I have learned that Planet X takes over 30 days to deal with a warranty claim and blames the customer for the damage.

I have learned that if a carbon bike is put in a bike stand it should be clamped to a metal seat post.

I have learned never to leave my bike out of my sight which makes travel and maintenance/repairs difficult.

Did I miss anything?


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## QED (20 May 2015)

Citius said:


> The relative value of the bikes they sell is no guarantee that the mechanics are infallible.



No but in business for 28 years and a Giant franchise should mean they don't crush carbon frames in the clamps.


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## djb1971 (20 May 2015)

QED said:


> I have done.
> 
> 
> What lesson do *you* think I should have learned?
> ...




Take your pick. At the end of the day a bollock was dropped, it cost you money. It could've cost more.

your bike will be fixed for a reasonable cost.

life's too short. move on.


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## Venod (20 May 2015)

Did I miss anything?[/QUOTE]

Yes, Carbon while a good material for bike frames needs handling with care, the same damage would not have occurred to a steel/aluminium frame.


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## ayceejay (20 May 2015)

Here is some useful advice from BMC note what they say about transportation http://www.bmc-switzerland.com/us-en/support/carbon-care/


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## Citius (20 May 2015)

Afnug said:


> Yes, Carbon while a good material for bike frames needs handling with care, the same damage would not have occurred to a steel/aluminium frame.



As I said before - any tube, of any material will crush with enough force. The same damage could quite easily have occurred to any other type of frame.


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## fossyant (20 May 2015)

I'd personally place bets that the damage was done on Eurostar.


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## QED (20 May 2015)

djb1971 said:


> Take your pick. At the end of the day a bollock was dropped, it cost you money. It could've cost more.
> 
> your bike will be fixed for a reasonable cost.
> 
> life's too short. move on.



As posted earlier, I did take their offer. But let me just say how I admire your equanimity and sang froid, if not your empathy, in the face of someone else's bike frame being destroyed.


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## Rob3rt (20 May 2015)

Afnug said:


> Yes, Carbon while a good material for bike frames needs handling with care,* the same damage would not have occurred to a steel/aluminium frame*.



Given the source of the damage is unknown, that cannot possibly be stated with any authority.


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## djb1971 (20 May 2015)

QED said:


> As posted earlier, I did take their offer. But let me just say how I admire your equanimity and sang froid, if not your empathy, in the face of someone else's bike frame being destroyed.


thanks, I do try.


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## QED (20 May 2015)

ayceejay said:


> Here is some useful advice from BMC note what they say about transportation http://www.bmc-switzerland.com/us-en/support/carbon-care/



Useful indeed. Thanks.


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## AlanTh (20 May 2015)

I'm surprised that the OP didn't spot the damage after collecting the bike from the LBS, or after travelling with the bike on Eurostar.


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## QED (20 May 2015)

AlanTh said:


> I'm surprised that the OP didn't spot the damage after collecting the bike from the LBS, or after travelling with the bike on Eurostar.



Me too. It was spotted by a mate at a cafe stop after a ride. In future, I will be sure to inspect it more closely whenever it has to leave my hands.


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## Rob3rt (20 May 2015)

Some people don't spend all their time inspecting their bikes and it is pretty easy to overlook these things!


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## User16625 (20 May 2015)

ayceejay said:


> Here is some useful advice from BMC note what they say about transportation http://www.bmc-switzerland.com/us-en/support/carbon-care/



That is an interesting article which leads me to this question: Which is the best material for bicycle frames, carbon fiber or cheese?


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## ayceejay (20 May 2015)

_Which is the best material for bicycle frames, carbon fiber or chees_e?
Are you under the impression that frames made from carbon fibre are the only frames susceptible to accidental damage?


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## MikeW-71 (20 May 2015)

hatler said:


> Workstand clamps don't apply pressure uniformly, so I understand that the SOP for clamping a carbon bike in a workstand is to insert a metal seatpost and then clamp the stand to that.


Won't work for my carbon Giant, it has an aero carbon seatpost. There is an alloy version, but it's Giant specific. I clamp the bike round the seatpost, no problems.

As to the OP's damage, I agree with others. Possibly crushed, but I think it's most likely something fell on it on the Eurostar or they handled it to roughly and banged it into something.


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## MikeW-71 (20 May 2015)

RideLikeTheStig said:


> That is an interesting article which leads me to this question: Which is the best material for bicycle frames, carbon fiber or cheese?


They do say that this is particularly for the superlight carbon frames. I have tried just now and I can't deform any of the tubes on my bike with my fingers, so I'm not worried about it at all. It's tough.


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## User16625 (20 May 2015)

MikeW-71 said:


> They do say that this is particularly for the superlight carbon frames. I have tried just now and I can't deform any of the tubes on my bike with my fingers, so I'm not worried about it at all. It's tough.



Never tried the deformation thing, but I dont have a clamp stand and never intended to get one. That article has definitely made me paranoid about taking it to a LBS. Fortunately I can do most things myself except for wheel bearings and truing. So I could still leave the bike itself at home anyway.


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## fossyant (20 May 2015)

I can squeeze the down tube on my alloy fixed gear - it's a teardrop shape and the sides can be squeezed slightly... Anyone old enough will remember 'tinging' tubes on steel bikes with the finger nail - you'd be seeing how 'super thin' the tubes were on the high end stuff. 

Anything can be damaged by side impacts. I never took my high end steel bike away with me incase someone pranged it, or put something heavy on the frame. We used bags but had the dropouts braced with axel inserts, then had pipe lagging over each tube, then heavy duty foam over the whole bike. They didn't have the hard cases then.


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