# Night Ride London to Brighton, 5th Sept - NOW CLOSED



## redfalo (11 Aug 2014)

I haven't done a London to Brighton night ride in a while. Originally, I think, there was a FNRttC tentatively scheduled for 5th Sept. But the blog nowadays does not list that date anymore.

I'm thinking of nonetheless riding from HPC to Brighton on that night (and potentially back). I don't fancy it doing it alone, so would be really delighted about some company. Meet 23:30 HPC for 24:00 depart, Gatwick Airport for halfway stop, breakfast in Brighton.

Any interest?


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## StuAff (11 Aug 2014)

Yes!


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## ianrauk (11 Aug 2014)

Count me in


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## wanda2010 (11 Aug 2014)

In the diary (albeit from the first draft of 2014 rides).


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## GrumpyGregry (11 Aug 2014)

Now my Hebridean holiday has been cancelled please pencil me in. Expect I shall ride slowly home.


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## rb58 (12 Aug 2014)

I need to check schedules and diaries when I'm back in the UK, but I'm most likely in for this....


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## mmmmartin (12 Aug 2014)

Sorry. Will be riding the Dutch coast then.


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## PippaG (12 Aug 2014)

I would have liked to do this but I will be in Brighton on other matters that weekend  

Adamski (not regularly OTP, but a recent returner to the FNRttC and known to some on this thread) has asked me to sign him up please.


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## martint235 (12 Aug 2014)

I'm also a possible.


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## HorTs (12 Aug 2014)

Possible for me too.


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## HorTs (12 Aug 2014)

@JoeyB ?


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## JoeyB (12 Aug 2014)

HorTs said:


> @JoeyB ?


I'm seriously considering it...


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## Tim Hall (12 Aug 2014)

<peers at diary>

Possible. It's been a long time since I rock and rolled did one of these.


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## ianrauk (12 Aug 2014)

Tim Hall said:


> <peers at diary>
> 
> Possible. It's been a long time since I rock and rolled did one of these.




You know you want to... and it's been a long time since we've seen you...


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## JoeyB (12 Aug 2014)

Will this be at the same sort of pace as the FNRttC version with the same rules re sticking together etc?


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## redfalo (12 Aug 2014)

JoeyB said:


> Will this be at the same sort of pace as the FNRttC version with the same rules re sticking together etc?


yes


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## clivedb (12 Aug 2014)

I also have the putative FNRttC in my diary for this date and coincidentally was just double checking on Simon's blog and finding it was no longer there. So, I am a possible provided it's going to be the usual speed.


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## GrumpyGregry (12 Aug 2014)

clivedb said:


> I also have the putative FNRttC in my diary for this date and coincidentally was just double checking on Simon's blog and finding it was no longer there. So, I am a possible provided it's going to be the usual speed.


If 'they' take off at unusual speed, I will be riding at the usual speed.


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## JoeyB (12 Aug 2014)

I think I'm in, just checking with the boss for any conflicts.


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## CharlieB (13 Aug 2014)

Yes, please.


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## Eddie_C (13 Aug 2014)

Me too, please.


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## BalkanExpress (13 Aug 2014)

Yes please, 

Eurostar tickets were purchased a couple of months back and are of the non-refundable variety so you have saved the day...or rather the night.


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## Mr Orange (15 Aug 2014)

Yes please. I would like to join.


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## Liam 68 (15 Aug 2014)

I am hoping to join for my first ride along with my son (if his knee passes the fitness test)... My dad is riding too (cliveb)...


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## velovoice (15 Aug 2014)

Considering it... will let you know.


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## topcat1 (15 Aug 2014)

Are you going up that bloody Beacon?


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## Tim Hall (15 Aug 2014)

topcat1 said:


> Are you going up that bloody Beacon?


I bloody hope so.


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## StuAff (15 Aug 2014)

Tim Hall said:


> I bloody hope so.


+1.


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## redfalo (15 Aug 2014)

topcat1 said:


> Are you going up that bloody Beacon?


We'll be following the official route, so I'm afraid we will.


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## ianmac62 (15 Aug 2014)

Pencilled in the diary for a while; now it might be penned in.


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## Zee (15 Aug 2014)

I look forward to some German efficiency. Count me in


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## Wobblers (16 Aug 2014)

Interested. Provided that there will be some refreshment of the liquid variety at Wetherspoons [1] afterwards.

And that I'll have finally finished moving house by then...

[1] Other establishments are acceptable, providing they sell beer


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## kimble (16 Aug 2014)

Hmm. Maybe...


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## redfalo (17 Aug 2014)

Wow, if everyone shows up, we'll be 24. I'd like to keep the total number of riders at 30.

Here's the list.

StuAff
IanRauk
Wanda2010
GrumpyGregy
rb58 (tentatively)
Adamski
Adrian
Martin235
User13710 (tentatively)
HorTs
JoeyB (tentatively)
TimHall
CliveB
CharlieB
Eddie_C
BalkanExpress
MrOrange
Liam60
velovoice (tentatively)
IanMac
Zee
McWobble
Kimble (tentatively)


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## sagefly (17 Aug 2014)

I'd like to go but need to check diary, think that I'm in Scotland teasing fish.


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## sagefly (17 Aug 2014)




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## Liam 68 (17 Aug 2014)

count me in +1


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## Liam 68 (17 Aug 2014)

was I Liam60...??!!!


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## wanda2010 (17 Aug 2014)

sagefly said:


> View attachment 53508



The remaining fish would prefer you join the ride. Jus' sayin'...........


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## mistral (17 Aug 2014)

redfalo said:


> Wow, if everyone shows up, we'll be 24. I'd like to keep the total number of riders at 30 ..... inc. Mistral


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## redfalo (17 Aug 2014)

Liam 68 said:


> was I Liam60...??!!!


yes, sorry, bloody iPhone keyboard typed before breakfast from French campsite


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## HorTs (17 Aug 2014)

Thanks for organising this @redfalo, after our night ride around the Isle of Wight I've been trying to get on a fnrttc to Brighton but they keep being cancelled.


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## PeteXXX (17 Aug 2014)

S'cuse my hignorance here, but is this Friday into Saturday or Saturday into Sunday?
I'm on the Gorilla on sunday morning but could maybe do both.


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## StuAff (17 Aug 2014)

PeteXXX said:


> S'cuse my hignorance here, but is this Friday into Saturday or Saturday into Sunday?
> I'm on the Gorilla on sunday morning but could maybe do both.


Friday into Saturday. There's a few reasons why FNRttCs aren't called the Extremely Early Saturday Morning Ride To the Coast


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## PeteXXX (17 Aug 2014)

StuAff said:


> Friday into Saturday. There's a few reasons why FNRttCs aren't called the Extremely Early Saturday Morning Ride To the Coast



Put me down as 'tentative' then.. I'll have to blag a holiday day for Friday.
(Having planned transport stuff, when folk say 'midnight' I'm not sure what day they mean. I've always worked on 23:59 or 00:01)


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## velovoice (17 Aug 2014)

It starts 24.00 Friday or 0.00 Saturday, take your pick.


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## slowmotion (17 Aug 2014)

I havn't done Brighton this year. I might be too slow for a small ride like this but I would love to give it a shot. I have to be at a wedding at 3pm on Saturday in London but I think that's doable. PM sent to @redfalo


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## slowmotion (17 Aug 2014)

User said:


> Is that 3:00 pm, still wearing Lycra and a bit ****ed?


I intend to seek out a phone box and effect a dramatic Clark Kent-style transformation.


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## Wobblers (17 Aug 2014)

slowmotion said:


> I havn't done Brighton this year. *I might be too slow for a small ride like this* but I would love to give it a shot. I have to be at a wedding at 3pm on Saturday in London but I think that's doable. PM sent to @redfalo



Oh don't talk pish. You (and @User13710 for that matter) are both more than capable of this. Just, you know, check your tyres for unsightly bulges this time?


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## slowmotion (17 Aug 2014)

McWobble said:


> Oh don't talk pish. You (and @User13710 for that matter) are both more than capable of this. Just, you know, check your tyres for unsightly bulges this time?


 Oh just fark off!


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## StuAff (17 Aug 2014)

User13710 said:


> I can't speak for anyone else, but I've given up rushing about, and although I know I am perfectly capable of doing the distance I might not feel like doing it in speedy company. Just saying.


As I posted in another thread.....


StuAff said:


> I'm sure I speak for all representatives of Teams Less Slow, Even Less Slow and Not Slow At All when I say that we will be all at the domestique service of Team Less Fast.


Just saying.


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## slowmotion (17 Aug 2014)

User13710 said:


> I can't speak for anyone else, but I've given up rushing about, and although I know I am perfectly capable of doing the distance I might not feel like doing it in speedy company. Just saying.


Neither can I TMN. I'm trying to sound out the speed. If it's a seven to seven-thirty entry to the Madiera, I'm comfortable. If it's greyhound stuff, I'll stay in my bed.

Edit: sorry cross-post.


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## w00hoo_kent (17 Aug 2014)

I've just sent a PM so hope it's not full. Happy to ride at able to talk pace rather than gasping for air pace too. In fact signed up presuming we're not doing a greased weasel run as I'm not that svelte.


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## StuAff (17 Aug 2014)

JoeyB said:


> Will this be at the same sort of pace as the FNRttC version with the same rules re sticking together etc?





redfalo said:


> yes


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## StuAff (17 Aug 2014)

Weasels will be degreased thoroughly.


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## ianrauk (18 Aug 2014)

Well there's no point in racing down to Brighton as we'll all be sitting on the beach for ages waiting for a cafe to open. So ya'll stop worrying about the speed of the ride. I am sure Olaf will keep it at a pace that will suit.


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## Dawn_C (18 Aug 2014)

Hi

I was hoping to do this ride. I am not a regular FNRttC rider, although I have done one previous ride with you a few years ago. How would you feel about me joining you ? I appreciate that you don't know me, so may not want me along (which is fine!) and that you also want to keep the group a manageable size, but if it helps my cause, I am used to riding in a group, happy to do my turn on the front without half-wheeling anyone, and I am prepared to bring malt loaf and flapjack (as much as I can carry!) for all ...

No probs if the answer is no, but I loved it last time, and would really love to do it again ...

Thanks, Dawn


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## redfalo (18 Aug 2014)

Another quick update from yet another French campground. I'm happy with everyone who has stated interest so far to come on the ride, but would like to close it for more riders. I'm not concerned about the pace but would like to limit complexity at the halfway stop.
Cheers
Olaf


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## JoeyB (18 Aug 2014)

I'm a definite now


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## rb58 (18 Aug 2014)

Righto. Back in the UK. Diary checked. All good - I'm confirmed.
Cheers


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## StuartG (18 Aug 2014)

JoeyB said:


> I'm a definite now


So am I - though my return plans are ~ fluid.

IGNORE THIS - DOH - POSTED TO THE WRONG THREAD!


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## hatler (18 Aug 2014)

Ah. I've been away and missed the start of this thread.

The minis were both very disappointed at the cancellation of the 'official' FNRttC ride for this date (eeek, who would ever have thought that 'official' and 'FNRttC' would ever appear in the same sentence), and little miss had even suggested that I ask if anyone from the regular team would like to do it.

If the ride were to be directed towards the Streat variation then flasks of coffee could be provided in exchange for allowing the four hatlers to join up there. If that's not too big an imposition there is also the chance that, if allowed, I could head up to HPC to join for the full distance and rely upon the wonderful Mrs hatler to do the coffee brewing and kiddy organising.

How does that sound ?


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## BromyG (18 Aug 2014)

Please add my name to the list for Brighton!


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## velovoice (18 Aug 2014)

redfalo said:


> Wow, if everyone shows up, we'll be 24. I'd like to keep the total number of riders at 30.
> 
> Here's the list.
> 
> ...



Leaning towards definite. @redfalo would adding @Flying Dodo be a problem in terms of numbers/complexity as mentioned above? 
(We haven't yet made a decision - but his availability/ability to join may affect mine.)


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## w00hoo_kent (18 Aug 2014)

Any chance of an up to date list (in your own time, when you're ready and all that) just to confirm numbers and who is in, ease some confusion maybe? Ta


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## slowmotion (18 Aug 2014)

Thank you for the PM @redfalo. I'm happy..


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## Mr Orange (18 Aug 2014)

On the recent Whitstable ride I think it was Adrian who had that rather splendid bike. Can you tell me where you got those mudguards from again please!


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## theclaud (18 Aug 2014)

Mr Orange said:


> On the recent Whitstable ride I think it was Adrian who had that rather splendid bike. Can you tell me where you got those mudguards from again please!



Don't encourage him.


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## AKA Bob (18 Aug 2014)

@redfalo hope France is treating you well?

Am I too late to add my name to this adventure?


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## Mr Orange (18 Aug 2014)

Many thanks Adrian.


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## sagefly (18 Aug 2014)

redfalo said:


> Another quick update from yet another French campground. I'm happy with everyone who has stated interest so far to come on the ride, but would like to close it for more riders. I'm not concerned about the pace but would like to limit complexity at the halfway stop.
> Cheers
> Olaf


The salmon are safe on that weekend, all being well there is still space on the ride.

User13710, I just about over following you down from Tanners Hill from the pub, ffs you are fearless


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## redfalo (19 Aug 2014)

Here's the updated list, this time from a French train into Bordeaux. 


StuAff
IanRauk
Wanda2010
GrumpyGregy
rb58 
Adamski
Adrian
Martin235
User13710 (tentatively)
HorTs
JoeyB 
TimHall
CliveB
CharlieB
Eddie_C
BalkanExpress
MrOrange
Liam68
velovoice (tentatively)
IanMac
Zee
McWobble
Kimble (tentatively)
AKA Bob
Hatler + minis
Flying Dodo (tentative)
sagefly
Mistral
PeteXXX
slowmotion
w00hoo_Kent
Dawn_C
BromyG

Please note that the ride is now closed.

Cheers 
Olaf


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## ianmac62 (19 Aug 2014)

Just bought my cheap advance tickets from Northampton up to Euston and return - looking forward to the ride!


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## JoeyB (19 Aug 2014)

Just to confirm, it is London Victoria I need to land at isnt it?


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## ianrauk (19 Aug 2014)

JoeyB said:


> Just to confirm, it is London Victoria I need to land at isnt it?




Yep...


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## StuAff (19 Aug 2014)

Waterloo is but two miles away anyway- and you don't have to go round the HPC roundabout (though you get York Road and Parliament Square instead...).


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## hatler (19 Aug 2014)

hatler + minis on the list = coffee at Ditchling.

Not 100% confirmed but it's looking highly likely.

Huzzah !!


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## JoeyB (19 Aug 2014)

Ticket to London booked. First visit it showed as £5...then when i went back the screen refreshed at £8. Went back again a few minutes later and it was back to £5 so ordered quickly lol

I think the return price from Brighton to Fareham was standing pricing, so I'll contemplate riding home (or at least some of the way) on the morning after the night before. If I don't feel up to it then then can just buy a ticket there and then.


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## hatler (19 Aug 2014)

StuAff said:


> Waterloo is but two miles away anyway- and you don't have to go round the HPC roundabout (though you get York Road and Parliament Square instead...).


Waterloo to HPC is a splendid way to start the evening. Pass the London Eye, trundle over Westminster Bridge, past the Houses of Parliament, round Parliament Square, and then along the gaslit Birdcage Walk, swing by the front of Buckingham Palace and finally leading to a non-stressful route onto the middle of HPC.


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## srw (19 Aug 2014)

StuAff said:


> Waterloo is but two miles away anyway- and you don't have to go round the HPC roundabout (though you get York Road and Parliament Square instead...).


 York Road is optional - as hatler's just pointed out. Take the pedestrianised (but shared) Sutton Walk to Concert Hall approach, then left along Belvedere Road, and cross Westminster Bridge at the lights.

One day there will be a "wrong way" option enabling you to go straight on rather than all the way round Parliament Square.


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## JoeyB (19 Aug 2014)

From Victoria I think I went through a subway to get onto HPC....that was an eye opener

In other news, I have just plotted a route from Brighton back to Fareham in the event that I feel like riding home. It will be my second longest ride if I do!


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## w00hoo_kent (19 Aug 2014)

First time I arrived I did the subway because I didn't know better. I had a bit of a death grip on the Synapse by the end. There are two big overland entrances to HPC, just cycle the roundabout and you can't miss them.


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## HorTs (19 Aug 2014)

JoeyB said:


> Ticket to London booked. First visit it showed as £5...then when i went back the screen refreshed at £8. Went back again a few minutes later and it was back to £5 so ordered quickly lol
> 
> I think the return price from Brighton to Fareham was standing pricing, so I'll contemplate riding home (or at least some of the way) on the morning after the night before. If I don't feel up to it then then can just buy a ticket there and then.



How did you get it so cheap?

I'll be going to Waterloo as I can't be doing with changes.

Also I have a route back from Brighton if you want to take a look, I'd consider cycling too.


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## JoeyB (19 Aug 2014)

HorTs said:


> How did you get it so cheap?
> 
> I'll be going to Waterloo as I can't be doing with changes.
> 
> Also I have a route back from Brighton if you want to take a look, I'd consider cycling too.



Fareham to Victoria - 20:35 departure. No changes. Southern Railways I think but got it through National Rail website.


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## JoeyB (19 Aug 2014)

User said:


> What time will you get to Victoria? There will be people hanging around near the Cafe Nero by the escalator for Wetherspoons, near platforms 10-11 (I think), between 11:00 - 11:30.



22:47. That sounds good, I'll come find.


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## StuAff (19 Aug 2014)

srw said:


> York Road is optional - as hatler's just pointed out. Take the pedestrianised (but shared) Sutton Walk to Concert Hall approach, then left along Belvedere Road, and cross Westminster Bridge at the lights.
> 
> One day there will be a "wrong way" option enabling you to go straight on rather than all the way round Parliament Square.


Indeed. I tend to avoid Sutton Walk etc as dodging all the peds is never fun. Either roundabouts or umpteen numpties glued to their phones...great choice!


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## velovoice (19 Aug 2014)

redfalo said:


> Here's the updated list, this time from a French train into Bordeaux.
> 
> velovoice (tentatively)
> Flying Dodo (tentative)


I think we're now "definite".  Just need to sort out tickets.


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## rb58 (19 Aug 2014)

User said:


> How does going right on York Rd, Waterloo Bridge, Strand, Trafalgar Sq, Mall, Birdcage Walk, work? It is only a tiny bit further but might be quieter. Alternatively, it might not.


The Strand can be very fickle late on a Friday night - either jammed up and nasty all the way back past Waterloo Bridge, or empty. And getting round the Trafalgar Square roundabout onto the Mall requires nerves of steel and bold abandon. I'd stick with Westminster Bridge (I also use the Belvedere Road variation but have only recently taken to riding between the concrete blocks at the junction with the bridge, which are placed perilously close together to attempt such a manoeuvre).


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## HorTs (19 Aug 2014)

JoeyB said:


> Fareham to Victoria - 20:35 departure. No changes. Southern Railways I think but got it through National Rail website.



Turns out you didn't make it up. £8. I'll be getting on at Cosham.


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## ianrauk (20 Aug 2014)

User13710 said:


> OK, I am now a definite for this ride




And so you should be...


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## CharlieB (20 Aug 2014)

StuAff said:


> Indeed. I tend to avoid Sutton Walk etc as dodging all the peds is never fun. Either roundabouts or umpteen numpties glued to their phones...great choice!


 …like the assonance of 'umpteen numpties'…


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## kimble (20 Aug 2014)

Got some orange cardboard, so I'm officially in.


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## w00hoo_kent (20 Aug 2014)

What directions are people cycling back in? Was looking at options. Via Crowborough area looks good for me but there don't seem to be many options road wise heading North East from Brighton and the A27 looks like a non starter to me.


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## redfalo (20 Aug 2014)

kimble said:


> Got some orange cardboard, so I'm officially in.


Great stuff. Good to have a recumbent on the ride. Back in Feb 2010, London to Brighton was my first FNRttC. On the Grashopper. It was wet, I was unfit, and we really rode past that bloody big hill on the horizon. I got hooked (and chucked iut the 'bent a few years later)


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## w00hoo_kent (20 Aug 2014)

Excellent, missed that on Streetview. Makes the route I was looking at much more viable.


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## martint235 (20 Aug 2014)

w00hoo_kent said:


> What directions are people cycling back in? Was looking at options. Via Crowborough area looks good for me but there don't seem to be many options road wise heading North East from Brighton and the A27 looks like a non starter to me.


Up and over Devil's Dyke usually. Through Handcross and then we eventually hit the A23 and follow that to Croydon. The A23 isn't as bad as it may sound.


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## ianrauk (20 Aug 2014)

martint235 said:


> Up and over Devil's Dyke usually. Through Handcross and then we eventually hit the A23 and follow that to Croydon. The A23 isn't as bad as it may sound.



He'll be off to Maidstone


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## w00hoo_kent (20 Aug 2014)

ianrauk said:


> He'll be off to Maidstone


Indeed I will.


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## martint235 (20 Aug 2014)

ianrauk said:


> He'll be off to Maidstone





w00hoo_kent said:


> Indeed I will.


Oh ok. Says London as location.......


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## rb58 (20 Aug 2014)

martint235 said:


> Up and over Devil's Dyke usually. Through Handcross and then we eventually hit the A23 and follow that to Croydon. The A23 isn't as bad as it may sound.


Or you come with me on my new improved, super-duper cross country route from Handcross which now includes Turners Hill (from the West) as well as Toys Hill, and Polhill. Much better than the A23 and Croydon.


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## StuAff (20 Aug 2014)

JoeyB said:


> From Victoria I think I went through a subway to get onto HPC....that was an eye opener
> 
> In other news, I have just plotted a route from Brighton back to Fareham in the event that I feel like riding home. It will be my second longest ride if I do!


Posts about other homeward routes reminded me- which way are you going?


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## sagefly (20 Aug 2014)

Groovy guys


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## w00hoo_kent (20 Aug 2014)

martint235 said:


> Oh ok. Says London as location.......


Yeah, I work in London and as I drive and cycle about 80% of my riding is in Greater London so it seemed to make sense at the time.


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## martint235 (21 Aug 2014)

rb58 said:


> Or you come with me on my new improved, super-duper cross country route from Handcross which now includes Turners Hill (from the West) as well as *Toys Hill, and Polhil*l. Much better than the A23 and Croydon.


How in the name of all that is Hellish can Toys Hill and Polhill after 100 miles be considered an improvement??????


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## HorTs (21 Aug 2014)

StuAff said:


> Posts about other homeward routes reminded me- which way are you going?



This is the way I'd go. Cycled to Hastings and back the other day and this is a tweaked route based on that. There are parts of the A259 that aren't that nice but there aren't any real practical alternatives.

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/5613566


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## StuAff (21 Aug 2014)

HorTs said:


> This is the way I'd go. Cycled to Hastings and back the other day and this is a tweaked route based on that. *There are parts of the A259 that aren't that nice but there aren't any real practical alternatives.*
> 
> http://ridewithgps.com/routes/5613566


Hmmm.....my route of choice to/from Brighton these days differs a bit from that one. The least 'nice' section of the 259 is the stretch either side of Littlehampton (between Climping and the Rustington roundabout)- if I were you I'd cut that out by going through East Preston and Angmering. At the end of Ferry Road, you're better off going via Yapton and Barnham, then Westergate and Oving (if you go north at the first roundabout you can make a left onto Horsemere Green Lane, or carry on a bit further and take the second turning by the Oystercatchers pub). Much more pleasant that way. If you stick with the 259 as far as Bognor, Lower Bognor Road and then Vinnetrow Road is a nicer alternative between BR and Chichester. 
http://ridewithgps.com/routes/5730805


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## HorTs (21 Aug 2014)

I think you're probably right. But I found the A259 from Bognor to Chichester the worst part.


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## JoeyB (21 Aug 2014)

HorTs said:


> This is the way I'd go. Cycled to Hastings and back the other day and this is a tweaked route based on that. There are parts of the A259 that aren't that nice but there aren't any real practical alternatives.
> 
> http://ridewithgps.com/routes/5613566





StuAff said:


> Hmmm.....my route of choice to/from Brighton these days differs a bit from that one. The least 'nice' section of the 259 is the stretch either side of Littlehampton (between Climping and the Rustington roundabout)- if I were you I'd cut that out by going through East Preston and Angmering. At the end of Ferry Road, you're better off going via Yapton and Barnham, then Westergate and Oving (if you go north at the first roundabout you can make a left onto Horsemere Green Lane, or carry on a bit further and take the second turning by the Oystercatchers pub). Much more pleasant that way. If you stick with the 259 as far as Bognor, Lower Bognor Road and then Vinnetrow Road is a nicer alternative between BR and Chichester.
> http://ridewithgps.com/routes/5730805



Just going to dig out my route... I made one up based on a 200KM Audax ride I did to Brighton and back last year.


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## JoeyB (21 Aug 2014)

I created this with BikeHike so had to upload it to RidewithGPS as a ride rather than a route...not sure I can convert it to a route?

http://ridewithgps.com/trips/3264396


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## rb58 (21 Aug 2014)

martint235 said:


> How in the name of all that is Hellish can Toys Hill and Polhill after 100 miles be considered an improvement??????


It's all in the mind Martin.


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## martint235 (21 Aug 2014)

rb58 said:


> It's all in the mind Martin.


It is and my mind says attempting steep hills after 100 miles is silly!!!


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## GrumpyGregry (21 Aug 2014)

HorTs said:


> I think you're probably right. But I found the A259 from Bognor to Chichester the worst part.


SCCR it a less trafficked but less direct alternative no?


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## adamski (22 Aug 2014)

rb58 said:


> Or you come with me on my new improved, super-duper cross country route from Handcross which now includes Turners Hill (from the West) as well as Toys Hill, and Polhill. Much better than the A23 and Croydon.



Turners Hill et al. for the ride back sounds good . 

(Alternatively, if one is feeling particular masochist I can offer up this route from Brighton back to Greenwich via Devils Dyke, some Surrey Hills, Box Hill & some little, steep, hills around Caterham.)


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## rb58 (22 Aug 2014)

adamski said:


> (Alternatively, if one is feeling particular masochist I can offer up this route from Brighton back to Greenwich via Devils Dyke, some Surrey Hills, Box Hill & some little, steep, hills around Caterham.)


Ah yes, Succomb Hill in Caterham. I remember the first time I went up there. Fully loaded. Not funny.


----------



## rb58 (22 Aug 2014)

User said:


> I have never ridden up that one. Did you make lots of new friends?


Oh yes. Particularly with the white van man directly behind me who, strangely, seemed to think it was funny.


----------



## ianrauk (22 Aug 2014)

rb58 said:


> Ah yes, Succomb Hill in Caterham. I remember the first time I went up there. Fully loaded. Not funny.




I rode up it by accident, on a SMRbtH.... I now only ever ride down it.


----------



## BalkanExpress (24 Aug 2014)

Sorry, I am now a "no". It appears I am moving house


----------



## redfalo (26 Aug 2014)

BalkanExpress said:


> Sorry, I am now a "no". It appears I am moving house


unlike!


----------



## BalkanExpress (26 Aug 2014)

redfalo said:


> unlike!


 
You are not the only one

It also means that I can not show off modestly present my new bike


----------



## clivedb (30 Aug 2014)

Many thanks again to Olaf for setting this up. It looks likely to be warmer than Cardiff-Swansea! Is the plan to stop at Gatwick? Or is there an alternative?


----------



## Tim Hall (30 Aug 2014)

clivedb said:


> Many thanks again to Olaf for setting this up. It looks likely to be warmer than Cardiff-Swansea! Is the plan to stop at Gatwick? Or is there an alternative?


First post suggests it's Gatwick.


----------



## mmmmartin (30 Aug 2014)

I think the clue to the halfway stop was quite well hidden......


redfalo said:


> Gatwick Airport for halfway stop


----------



## clivedb (31 Aug 2014)

Tim Hall said:


> First post suggests it's Gatwick.



Sorry - should have checked back.....


----------



## GrumpyGregry (31 Aug 2014)

I'm out. Sorry.


----------



## EltonFrog (31 Aug 2014)

I was wondering why the thread title now states "NOW CLOSED" ? The ride is on public roads and is not exclusive or am I missing something?


----------



## ianrauk (31 Aug 2014)

CarlP said:


> I was wondering why the thread title now states "NOW CLOSED" ? The ride is on public roads and is not exclusive or am I missing something?




It's Olaf's ride and he can choose who and how many people he want's on the ride.
If you read the thread you'll see It's about managing the numbers.


----------



## StuAff (31 Aug 2014)

ianrauk said:


> It's Olaf's ride and he can choose who and how many people he want's on the ride.
> If you read the thread you'll see It's about managing the numbers.


+1. Some of us are still undertaking our diplomas in cat herding.....


----------



## StuAff (31 Aug 2014)

Just an FYI, the Brighton Speed Trials are this coming Saturday morning. Shouldn't affect us too much though.


----------



## rb58 (31 Aug 2014)

I'm really sorry, but I'm out too. Olaf - you have a PM.


----------



## EltonFrog (31 Aug 2014)

ianrauk said:


> It's Olaf's ride and he can choose who and how many people he want's on the ride.
> If you read the thread you'll see It's about managing the numbers.



Fair enough, but one can't stop one tagging along, it is after all the public highway.


----------



## ianrauk (31 Aug 2014)

CarlP said:


> Fair enough, but one can't stop one tagging along, it is after all the public highway.




Jeez.. no one's disputing that are they.


----------



## velovoice (31 Aug 2014)

CarlP said:


> Fair enough, but one can't stop one tagging along, it is after all the public highway.



True... but I always wonder when people say this... why would you want to tag along after a ride you're not part of?


----------



## ianrauk (31 Aug 2014)

velovoice said:


> True... but I always wonder when people say this... why would you want to tag along after a ride you're not part of?




Indeed.
The London to Brighton charity ride or the London 100 ride I can understand, but a small social ride I don't.


----------



## ttcycle (31 Aug 2014)

After a bit of sharp elbowed cajoling on today's ride. I am a tentative for this if there's still room, as not working Saturday. Might join after Tooting but Ditchling will probably be walked! If the sleep deprivation has knock on effects re health, I'll bail at Gatwick but will confirm.


----------



## StuAff (31 Aug 2014)

ttcycle said:


> After a bit of sharp elbowed cajoling on today's ride. I am a tentative for this if there's still room, as not working Saturday. Might join after Tooting but Ditchling will probably be walked! If the sleep deprivation has knock on effects re health, I'll bail at Gatwick but will confirm.


Hope you can make it. It'll be as good as Monday night was


----------



## ttcycle (31 Aug 2014)

Gig finished at 10ish so that's hardly the same in terms of sleep deprivation?


----------



## redfalo (1 Sep 2014)

ttcycle said:


> After a bit of sharp elbowed cajoling on today's ride. I am a tentative for this if there's still room, as not working Saturday. Might join after Tooting but Ditchling will probably be walked! If the sleep deprivation has knock on effects re health, I'll bail at Gatwick but will confirm.


sure thing, you're most welcome. I'll post the GPS track of our route soon


----------



## redfalo (1 Sep 2014)

CarlP said:


> Fair enough, but one can't stop one tagging along, it is after all the public highway.



My concern is about numbers and complexity. I was surprised by the big interested in the ride and don't want to lead a ride with 80 or 100 people, particularly not with Gatwick Airport as a halfway stop, where the security staff can get techy and paranoid. 30-ish seems like a much more mangeable number. But since a few people have already said they are out, you're more than welcome to join, @CarlP


----------



## mmmmartin (1 Sep 2014)

CarlP said:


> Fair enough, but one can't stop one tagging along, it is after all the public highway.


It'd be interesting to see. @dellzeqq has stopped riders being part of the group, I've seen this on a Brighton ride. An uninsured rider, with no third party liability, would be a real liability to a leader and as a ride participant I'd fully back every effort by a leader to prevent someone riding in the group. This means they'd be riding behind the group - so the "all up man" would be in front of them and there would be no waymarkers. On a ride in the dark, in unfamiliar territory...... and what if there is a visit from the puncture fairy? Any group I was leading would simply drop the miscreant.
So, in effect, it might be more difficult than it seems to simply "tag along". And if @redfalo, or any other ride leader, said someone who simply turned up on the night and tried to"tag along" wasn't part of the ride, I suspect they'd have a very lonely trip.
An interesting point thobut.


----------



## ianrauk (1 Sep 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> It'd be interesting to see. @dellzeqq has stopped riders being part of the group, I've seen this on a Brighton ride. An uninsured rider, with no third party liability, would be a real liability to a leader and as a ride participant I'd fully back every effort by a leader to prevent someone riding in the group. This means they'd be riding behind the group - so the "all up man" would be in front of them and there would be no waymarkers. On a ride in the dark, in unfamiliar territory...... and what if there is a visit from the puncture fairy? Any group I was leading would simply drop the miscreant.
> So, in effect, it might be more difficult than it seems to simply "tag along". And if @redfalo, or any other ride leader, said someone who simply turned up on the night and tried to"tag along" wasn't part of the ride, I suspect they'd have a very lonely trip.
> An interesting point thobut.




It's happened more the once.


----------



## redfalo (1 Sep 2014)

Here's the updated list. You all should have received a PM as well. 

StuAff
IanRauk
Wanda2010
Adamski
Adrian
Martint235
User13710 
HorTs
JoeyB
TimHall
ClivedB
CharlieB
Eddie_C
MrOrange
Liam68
velovoice 
IanMac
Zee
McWobble
Kimble 
AKA Bob
Hatler + minis
Flying Dodo 
sagefly
Mistral
PeteXXX
slowmotion
w00hoo_Kent
Dawn_C
BromyG
ttcycle
Trickedem
David P
Anne M


----------



## dellzeqq (2 Sep 2014)

CarlP said:


> Fair enough, but one can't stop one tagging along, it is after all the public highway.


pump in the spokes.

I have dissuaded people from 'tagging along'. The deal with the FNRttC is that we know who's on the ride and that everybody on the ride has third party insurance. That way if (heaven forfend) there's a crash caused not by a failing on my part (which would be covered by the organiser's insurance) but by a failing on the part of one of the riders then the person injured would have some recourse.

The other thing is this - managing a ride of whatever size is tricky. We've had rides from 4 to nigh on 400, and putting people through a learning process beforehand and sorting out the arrangements for the night takes time and effort. Ask yourself this - why would you bother running a ride that relied on co-operation between all the people on the ride, and, in particular, the help of people like Olaf and Ian if people just turned up and put the other riders and your insurance policy at risk?


----------



## martint235 (2 Sep 2014)

dellzeqq said:


> pump in the spokes


@ianrauk at the back with baby wipes??


----------



## dellzeqq (2 Sep 2014)

martint235 said:


> @ianrauk at the back with baby wipes??


that's a special service for which you should be paying extra


----------



## w00hoo_kent (2 Sep 2014)

I'm in the umming and arring about what to wear, what are you lot going for? I'm presuming it'll be cold and at some point it'll rain :-)


----------



## martint235 (2 Sep 2014)

No rain in the forecast. So I'll be in shorts and s/s top. Will have a lightweight waterproof with me and may or may not bring arm warmers.


----------



## ianrauk (2 Sep 2014)

Shorts, vest, s/s jersey, arm warmers (on standby).


----------



## hatler (2 Sep 2014)

And, even better, the wind is forecast to be a light nor nor easter. It doesn't often get much better than that.


----------



## ianrauk (2 Sep 2014)

So what is the plan for Brighton morning time?
Are there plans to get the Madeira open?


----------



## ianrauk (2 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> We won't get near it if the speed trials are on. Better to reduce the pace and arrive when Wetherspoons opens - eggs benedict for breakfast beats the cheap sausages every time .




I'm liking your style.. and no 'no teeth, table clearing man' either.


----------



## Tim Hall (2 Sep 2014)

ianrauk said:


> I'm liking your style.. and no 'no teeth, table clearing man' either.


Aww. His interpersonal skills are a highlight of the ride.


----------



## slowmotion (2 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> We won't get near it if the speed trials are on. Better to reduce the pace and arrive when Wetherspoons opens - eggs benedict for breakfast beats the cheap sausages every time .


 Which Wetherspoons were you thinking of, TMN? I looked at their website and I think there are three in Brighton.


----------



## Tim Hall (2 Sep 2014)

slowmotion said:


> Which Wetherspoons were you thinking of, TMN? I looked at their website and I think there are three in Brighton.


How about a post ride tour-de-Wetherspoons, and fit them all in?


----------



## ianrauk (2 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> The one we always go to.




Which is?
What time does it open?


----------



## redfalo (2 Sep 2014)

martint235 said:


> @ianrauk at the back with baby wipes??



Hopefully, he will be at the front this time. Honest, it's not about the baby wipes!


----------



## slowmotion (2 Sep 2014)

Tim Hall said:


> How about a post ride tour-de-Wetherspoons, and fit them all in?


 Splendid idea but I have to catch a train at about 9.30 am. A bit of re-hydration before boarding would be most welcome but it may have to be somewhat brief.


----------



## slowmotion (2 Sep 2014)

User said:


> Not the one at the marina then. The Bright Helm


 Please don't let me sway your decision. I'm easy.


----------



## ianrauk (2 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> http://www.jdwetherspoon.co.uk/home/pubs/the-bright-helm
> Opens at 8 am, although they might not be able to sell beer until a bit later iirc.




ta..


----------



## slowmotion (2 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> It's literally just a stagger and a topple into the gutter from the station.


 I wouldn't know anything about such things....


----------



## wanda2010 (2 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> http://www.jdwetherspoon.co.uk/home/pubs/the-bright-helm
> Opens at 8 am, although they might not be able to sell beer until a bit later iirc.



What are the chances we can take our bikes in there this time round?


----------



## HorTs (3 Sep 2014)

Has anyone tried Velo Café http://www.velo-cafe.co.uk/?


----------



## martint235 (3 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> It's literally just a stagger and a topple into the gutter from the station.


That's good. I once had to stagger a really long way to the station.


----------



## martint235 (3 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> I had you in mind tbh . I believe Teef fell off on the way to the station once as well.


 I've not fallen off (or at least not on the way to Brighton Station) although I believe some people were worried I might.


----------



## martint235 (3 Sep 2014)

User said:


> Not worried, more staking money on which 100 yard section of road it would occur on.


Ooh. So who won with "God knows how but I reckon he'll keep it upright to the station where he'll stop long enough to have a row with a taxi driver"?


----------



## ttcycle (3 Sep 2014)

Sadly, I'm out  Have a fabulous ride guys!


----------



## redfalo (3 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> http://www.jdwetherspoon.co.uk/home/pubs/the-bright-helm
> Opens at 8 am, although they might not be able to sell beer until a bit later iirc.



alright, shall we settle for this one? Is this route to the pub reasonable? http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=rfabecfeyjkeecjm


----------



## ianrauk (3 Sep 2014)

Are you going to call Wetherspoons to let them know to expect us.


----------



## slowmotion (3 Sep 2014)

Beer-o'clock is 9am at Wetherspoons. Sounds good.


----------



## Flying Dodo (3 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> Unnecessarily complex I think. I would go down to the roundabout on the seafront by the pier, and turn right along the seafront to the traffic lights at the bottom of West Street.



Agreed. And it's less of a climb. Plus we get a look at the sea to know we've arrived at the seaside.


----------



## JoeyB (3 Sep 2014)

As long as I can get a ridiculous amount of breakfast for not too much money I'm happy.


----------



## slowmotion (3 Sep 2014)

JoeyB said:


> As long as I can get a ridiculous amount of breakfast for not too much money I'm happy.


 http://www.jdwetherspoon.co.uk/static/pdfs/admin-generated/october-2013-food-menu-breakfast-108.pdf


----------



## adamski (3 Sep 2014)

redfalo said:


> Is this route to the pub reasonable? http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=rfabecfeyjkeecjm



Noted. I'll load this onto my Garmin



I'll be riding back. Possibly something like this: http://goo.gl/maps/mBuxD


----------



## ianrauk (3 Sep 2014)

adamski said:


> Noted. I'll load this onto my Garmin
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be riding back. Possibly something like this: http://goo.gl/maps/mBuxD



Just follow me Bud  have a well used well known route back over the Devils Dyke, Hand cross, Crawley, Gatwick and Croydon


----------



## hatler (3 Sep 2014)

I think the hatlers will most likely not make it to the Wetherspoons, so might give the Café Vélo mentioned upthread a go, unless anyone reckons it's not worth a go. After that, I imagine Joe might want to have a peek at the Speed Trials. Even better, we have friends who live just over Madeira Drive.


----------



## redfalo (3 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> Unnecessarily complex I think. I would go down to the roundabout on the seafront by the pier, and turn right along the seafront to the traffic lights at the bottom of West Street.



like this? http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=rfabecfeyjkeecjm


----------



## redfalo (3 Sep 2014)

here's an updated list, this time with real world names and properly sorted. I might have missed someone, please give me a shout in this case.

Adam B
Adam Y
Adrian C
Anne M
Barry G
Bill R
Clive B
David P
Dawn C
Eddie C
Geoff S
Greg T
Ian M
Ian R
Izzy H
Jenny M
Joe B
Joe H
John M
Kim W
Liam B
Lu H
Martin W
Martin T
Matthew W
Mick D
Mik R
Olaf S
Rebecca O
Rob H
Sonia W
Stuart A
Stuart C
Tim D
Tim H
Xi C


----------



## martint235 (3 Sep 2014)

Errm, I'm missing.


----------



## StuAff (3 Sep 2014)

And Chen is Xi's family name


----------



## redfalo (3 Sep 2014)

sorry! now updated


----------



## adamski (4 Sep 2014)

ianrauk said:


> Just follow me Bud  have a well used well known route back over the Devils Dyke, Hand cross, Crawley, Gatwick and Croydon



OK, will do.


----------



## theclaud (4 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> I had you in mind tbh . I believe Teef fell off on the way to the station once as well.


Disgraceful.


----------



## Aperitif (4 Sep 2014)

theclaud said:


> Disgraceful.


Yes, Claudine - disgraceful. It was at least twice.
And Whitstable.
A few times.
It's hard work being the life and..ah...soul of the party.


----------



## rb58 (4 Sep 2014)

ianrauk said:


> Just follow me Bud  have a well used well known route back over the Devils Dyke, Hand cross, Crawley, Gatwick and Croydon


LOL. Devil's Dyke......


----------



## ianrauk (4 Sep 2014)

rb58 said:


> LOL. Devil's Dyke......



Just coz it beats you up every time...


----------



## ianmac62 (4 Sep 2014)

redfalo said:


> Here's the updated list. You all should have received a PM as well.



I've just spotted that I don't seem to have a PM. Sorry @redfalo


----------



## redfalo (4 Sep 2014)

added you to the private discussion. how could I miss you? sorry!


----------



## Wobblers (4 Sep 2014)

Sadly, I've had some bad news so I'm out of this one. Apologetic email sent. Have fun, it looks like you'll have good weather for it.


----------



## martint235 (5 Sep 2014)

McWobble said:


> Sadly, I've had some bad news so I'm out of this one. Apologetic email sent. Have fun, it looks like you'll have good weather for it.


You'll be missed McWobble. Hope everything is ok


----------



## GrumpyGregry (5 Sep 2014)

'ave a good 'un lovely peeps.


----------



## Tim Hall (5 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> I have had a thought, which has probably already occurred to @redfalo. Maybe we shouldn't be too leisurely in order to get to Wetherspoons at opening time, because arriving later at the Beacon will mean more traffic to contend with there.


Go like the clappers through the night, arriving at Brighton good and early. Swim in the oggin then brekko at Mr. Spoon's establishment.

(I dreamt about this ride last night. We were somehow off route riding down what may have been the M23. Part of the group (the women riders) were seen some distance away on the correct route. We had to clamber over a chain link fence to get back on track. All the while I knew of a better way to go).


----------



## StuAff (5 Sep 2014)

McWobble said:


> Sadly, I've had some bad news so I'm out of this one. Apologetic email sent. Have fun, it looks like you'll have good weather for it.


Sorry to hear about this, see you soon I hope.


----------



## StuAff (5 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> I have had a thought, which has probably already occurred to @redfalo. Maybe we shouldn't be too leisurely in order to get to Wetherspoons at opening time, because arriving later at the Beacon will mean more traffic to contend with there.


Good point....if we're there at half seven (and that is not usual for a Brighton run) having got up the Beacon when it's quiet, no problem to wait/swim/go for additional pootle etc.


----------



## StuAff (5 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> You're right, it won't be a long wait.
> I don't swim though. And I don't swim in the sea. And I definitely don't swim in the sea anywhere near West Street early on a Saturday morning.


Me neither (can't swim).


----------



## redfalo (5 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> I have had a thought, which has probably already occurred to @redfalo. Maybe we shouldn't be too leisurely in order to get to Wetherspoons at opening time, because arriving later at the Beacon will mean more traffic to contend with there.



Good point indeed. So far, I thought about leaving Gatwick 4am-ish, which would mean that we are approaching Beacon a tad after 6am-ish. This won't be too late, will it?


----------



## Tim Hall (5 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> You're right, it won't be a long wait.
> I don't swim though. And I don't swim in the sea. And I definitely don't swim in the sea anywhere near West Street early on a Saturday morning.


Not so much swimming as just going through the motions. (I've done the sewer tour)


StuAff said:


> Me neither (can't swim).


Take care crossing fords is my advice.


----------



## Aperitif (5 Sep 2014)

User said:


> Especially if you don't turn up.


"It was hard work..."


----------



## velovoice (5 Sep 2014)

Now *this* is what I like to see!


----------



## velovoice (5 Sep 2014)

McWobble said:


> Sadly, I've had some bad news so I'm out of this one. Apologetic email sent. Have fun, it looks like you'll have good weather for it.


That's too bad. Hope you're okay.


----------



## martint235 (5 Sep 2014)

Sorry I'm also now out (I'll be being called @Davywalnuts next). Hurt my knee commuting home, not sure how. Pain has eased but don't think a long ride is a good idea. Have a fun ride it looks the perfect night for it.


----------



## rb58 (5 Sep 2014)

Enjoy the ride team. Really sorry I can't be with you, but I shall be having a family birthday lunch tomorrow then watching the offspring clamber over the O2. I, being way too old for such shenanigans, will be watching from afar.


----------



## hatler (5 Sep 2014)

Car with coffee making accoutrements (and three hatlers) just waved off. Children both excited to be joining us tomorrow morning.


----------



## Tim Hall (5 Sep 2014)

hatler said:


> Car with coffee making accoutrements (and three hatlers) just waved off. Children both excited to be joining us tomorrow morning.


Excellent. Is Joe going to beat us all to the top?


----------



## hatler (5 Sep 2014)

Hmmm. Not sure. But one thing I do know, he is (unsurprisingly) getting stronger and faster. Not all that long ago I used to be able to reel him in without too much bother. I cycled with him to school earlier this week and at one point he took off and I actually had to work quite hard at catching him.


----------



## User10571 (5 Sep 2014)

Rob, I cannot imagine that you having to put in some effort to keep up with Joe is anything other than a good feeling!

Have fun All!
I'll be with you in spirit...


----------



## CharlieB (5 Sep 2014)

Enjoy, people. You're going to have a perfect night. 
Just wish I was with you.


----------



## JoeyB (5 Sep 2014)

Dropping like flies?


----------



## JoeyB (5 Sep 2014)

Waiting for my train to Victoria...


----------



## kimble (5 Sep 2014)

Setting off now...


----------



## StuAff (5 Sep 2014)

On my way. ETA at the arch 2335.


----------



## hatler (5 Sep 2014)

Just heading out of the door.


----------



## Tim Hall (5 Sep 2014)

Sitting at a railway station ,got a ticket for my destination.


----------



## Flying Dodo (5 Sep 2014)

A small but select group collecting at HPC including Adrian who's clearly popped over from work.


----------



## Flying Dodo (6 Sep 2014)

And now Olaf's merry band of wanderers has found the Gatwick Surprise.


----------



## JoeyB (6 Sep 2014)

Just got back to Fareham. Made very good time with HorTs on the front! Haven't done that mileage since this time last year!


----------



## kimble (6 Sep 2014)

Excellent ride, marred only by knee trouble (too many Welsh mountains earlier in the week) and getting spat at (blinding me, at speed) on the way home.


----------



## Tim Hall (6 Sep 2014)

kimble said:


> Excellent ride, marred only by knee trouble (too many Welsh mountains earlier in the week) and getting spat at (blinding me, at speed) on the way home.


Bloody hell kimble, that's more than a bit horrid. On a brighter note, that's a brilliant recumbent rider's tan you have (front of legs only!).


----------



## Flying Dodo (6 Sep 2014)

!!!! That's shocking & disturbing on so many levels. Hope you're OK Kim.


----------



## GrumpyGregry (6 Sep 2014)

kimble said:


> Excellent ride, marred only by knee trouble (too many Welsh mountains earlier in the week) and getting spat at (blinding me, at speed) on the way home.


That's shocking. Hope it wasn't in Sussex.


----------



## theclaud (6 Sep 2014)

kimble said:


> Excellent ride, marred only by knee trouble (too many Welsh mountains earlier in the week) and getting spat at (blinding me, at speed) on the way home.



FFS!


----------



## ianmac62 (6 Sep 2014)

kimble said:


> Excellent ride, marred only by knee trouble (too many Welsh mountains earlier in the week) and getting spat at (blinding me, at speed) on the way home.


Bloody hell! Hope you're feeling fine now!


----------



## ianmac62 (6 Sep 2014)

Many thanks to @redfalo for an excellent ride! And to you all for your excellent company!

Eighty miles for me door-to-door which brought me past 30,000 miles since I started counting. Not a great amount by the awesome standards and achievement of nearly all of my Fridays' friends - but you won't get the smile off my face for some time.

Thanks again for your companionship!


----------



## kimble (6 Sep 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> That's shocking. Hope it wasn't in Sussex.



West Midlands, naturally, though I've be spat at in various other counties too. Never with quite such uncanny accuracy, though.


----------



## kimble (6 Sep 2014)

ianmac62 said:


> Bloody hell! Hope you're feeling fine now!



More angry than wibbly, now, which is probably an improvement.

(I initially thought it was a gravel-shattered lens or very unlucky bird poo strike, which would have been just as wibble-inducing, happening as it did on a busy dual carriageway with an abundance of potholes.)

Knee (or more precisely, adjacent bits of overworked muscle that keep the foot pointing in the right direction) is going to need some time off the bike, I think. Only hurts on the stairs.


----------



## Flying Dodo (6 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> ; I hallucinated Mr Benn at one point.



So that's who Adrian was emulating in his suit!


----------



## redfalo (6 Sep 2014)

User said:


> I don't recall Mr Benn using quite such profane language as I am told was employed on the beacon.


it's all whitewashed by the historians. After 3hrs of sleep, i'm off to a party (feeling dreadful at the moment) thanks for your fine company, really a splendid night out, albeit some key people were missed... more detailled account to follow on Sunday

cheers Olaf


----------



## User10571 (6 Sep 2014)

^ Thats's the way to do it!
Enjoy the party, Olaf!


----------



## w00hoo_kent (6 Sep 2014)

User said:


> Different Mr Benn
> View: http://youtu.be/CVFcIJWe0zE



Ah so. Mr Benn before changing, that answers the Hawaiin Shirt.

I kept getting a different vibe, although Adrian didn't recognise the reference...


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## Wobblers (6 Sep 2014)

Seems you all had a good time: I'm jealous. Thanks for all the good wishes, fingers crossed things don't seem to be as bad as I first feared (my Mum's hip operation hasn't gone as well as it could have, unfortunately).



kimble said:


> *West Midlands, naturally*, though I've be spat at in various other counties too. Never with quite such uncanny accuracy, though.



Somehow, I'm not surprised. Was it Bristol Road, by any chance? I've had bottles thrown at me, eggs thrown at me, one **** get his equally ****ish mate to slow the car so he could slap me on the back of the head. The thing is, I've never experienced such ubiquitous nastiness anywhere else, even in London where the usual congestion might be expected to produce such pent up aggression. That is something that I won't miss about Birmingham...

I hope you're feeling better now, Kim. It's not usual, even for Birmingham.


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## kimble (7 Sep 2014)

McWobble said:


> Somehow, I'm not surprised. Was it Bristol Road, by any chance? I've had bottles thrown at me, eggs thrown at me, one **** get his equally ****ish mate to slow the car so he could slap me on the back of the head. The thing is, I've never experienced such ubiquitous nastiness anywhere else, even in London where the usual congestion might be expected to produce such pent up aggression. That is something that I won't miss about Birmingham...
> 
> I hope you're feeling better now, Kim. It's not usual, even for Birmingham.



Indeed it was. From a person (I didn't see if they were on foot or bike, though they were with someone who did have a bike, and moving at about walking speed) on the shared use pavement, rather than a car occupant. I didn't really notice them until after it happened (at which point I couldn't see properly), the Bristol Road requiring your full attention for traffic muppetry and pothole avoidance.

I've been egged and had ice thrown at me on FNRttCs before, but it's less upsetting when you're in a group of cyclists that's clearly going to attract that sort of attention from the post-pub wildlife. I get a lot of verbal comments from riding a recumbent, but the majority are positive or humorous, rather than threats or assaults.


Anyway, I'm feeling a bit more zen about it now. It's my knee that bothers me more, as I may be off the bike for a while until it calms down.

(Still quite impressed that I managed Ditchling Beacon pedalling entirely on the left leg. Made easier by not wearing a silly hat, of course.)


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## sagefly (7 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> I'm confused by this nice compliment, are you sure that was me and down Tanners Hill?


It was the one where we stop at the pub at the top of a hill, not sure of the name, Crown?, you were fearless I was foolish!!


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## w00hoo_kent (7 Sep 2014)

Wanted to add my thanks to Olaf and his minions for a good night out. I think we only put in one wrong turn (and I'm sure that was intentional to prove how much work Simon does :-) ) . 

I'd not been feeling on top form in the week leading up to this, and considered cancelling on and off but am glad that I didn't, it did allow me to get my racers excuses in before Ditchling, which I ended up walking the last bit of. Not particularly pleased with that, but it's really not my type of hill and I'm pretty sure I broke mentally a lot more than I did physically. Ah well. That decided me on a train home, and after various misunderstandings with my lift I ended up meeting the car at Ashford and being home a bit after midday to a welcome bed.

As others have mentioned, the weather was about as good as it could be, although dawn felt a bit far off. Gatwick was a good stop over point, nobody could stop praising the loos, I was surprised about the number of cars on the route, while it was by no means constant, it just felt busier than the other two rides I'd done, we figured Surryites had more dinner parties to attend or something.

Was glad I'd layered up a little (long sleeve base layer & Torm top) during the bit through the lanes before the mid ride stop. I had my first riding completely alone experience on the ride, no tail lights in front, no white lights behind. I know others have commented on it being a bit of a high point when they luck in to that but it's never been something I've always preferred having others around (not sure why, validation that I haven't screwed up perhaps? The camaraderie? Not sure) it was a fast flowing bit of the route so I don't think riding and talking was an option there, but I might make more of an conscious decision to hold back on the speed a little if there's no obvious bikes in front rather than sitting at what felt like a natural pace (which is how I ended up away on my own).

So for me, a bit of a mixed bag. I got to have some good chats with people on the ride, and have others I didn't quite manage to get time with, I got to see Adrian doing his super civilised Brompton ride (and the double takes from the people at Gatwick when they'd just got used to a load of lycra clad people meandering past with bikes and then noticed a bowler hat in the middle of them. I suppose it makes sense, they were originally a safety hat for riding after all) and I have another route ticked off in my book. I'm trying to work out a way to do the last Southend Fridays ride, but it really doesn't look likely and I've managed to already be booked on the Felpham night too (along with Normandy next year) but I'm hoping something I can do will turn up.

Again, thanks to all for the company and to the organisers for the organising. :-)


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## Dogtrousers (7 Sep 2014)

sagefly said:


> It was the one where we stop at the pub at the top of a hill, not sure of the name, Crown?, you were fearless I was foolish!!


Turners Hill (probably) Has a pub called the Crown and is between London and Brighton, so if you went that way, that's probably it.

Sounds fab. Sorry I couldn't be there.


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## adamski (7 Sep 2014)

Firstly, thanks to redfalo for sorting out the ride down to Brighton and ianrauk for the route back home. The whole ride down to Brighton felt like a FNRttC from 2007 or 2008, which was due to the relatively small group and the Gatwick Surprise. The small group size also meant waymarking duties were completed within moments, so no standing around getting cold. Tim Hall commented on his surprise at how quickly I reappeared at the head of the group after stopping to mark one junction.

I have never done the Hundred Acre Lane route to get from Slugwash Lane to Ditchling Beacon. On this occasion I didn't enjoy it too much because of the recent road "repairs" in which a deep layer of gravel was spread down the road, but I can see it being a much more enjoyable route.

The run down from the summit of the Beacon to the edge of Brighton was ridden with Joe Hatler, who didn't need much encouragement from me to try to catch as many people as possible. The uphills were fine, Joe just needs a bit more mass so to help him maintain momentum of the descents!

Once in Brighton we had a guest appearance by PippaG and then ianrauk lead a few of us back towards London. The route up to Crawley was lovely, but I cannot say I enjoyed the A23. It was just too busy and urban for my liking, esp. having recently been cycling in The Netherlands where riding on these sort of roads just doesn't happen due to the amazing cycling infrastructure. Ah well. I survived, waved goodbye to ianrauk and Eddie_C in Croydon and then tip toed my way through Greenwich, which was very busy due to the Tall Ships Festival. I was home having ridden 200 km and despite the lack of sleep I was pleasantly surprised to fine I was still feeling nice and awake.


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## Trickedem (7 Sep 2014)

Thanks Olaf for a really well organised fun ride. You certainly know how to pick the weather. I enjoyed my time at the back as a TEC, but the only visitation we had was fixed by the owner, as we professed a lack of understanding of folding small wheel things. One of my highlights was chasing a bowler hatted city gent as we zoomed into Brighton, there was certainly a speed camera flash at some point, although I am fairly sure it wasn't caused by either of us  
It was a tough decision, but I left early without ingesting any beer, so I could ride home. I went on the Lewes Road and have to say that the floating bus stops seem a really good idea. I then went on one of the nicest roads in the South East, through Barcombe and Spithurst and then up and over the Ashdown Forest. To avoid dehydration I stopped at the Crown in Groombridge, which is a lovely spot and watched loads of cyclists coming past and heading up Groombridge Hill. I fell asleep with my head on the table and the concerned barmaid came out to ask if I was ok. I think she though I was mad when she asked how far I had cycled.

I took a few pictures link. Let me know if you want a hi-resolution copy


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## kimble (7 Sep 2014)

Trickedem said:


> there was certainly a speed camera flash at some point, although I am fairly sure it wasn't caused by either of us



I *may* have accidentally set the speed camera off a little bit... (42.1mph)


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## Tim Hall (7 Sep 2014)

Whereas I didn't. A shade over 30mph isn't enough, but 120rpm was plenty for my knees.


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## slowmotion (7 Sep 2014)

A big thanks to Olaf, the TECs and all the Scarecrows. There were absolutely perfect weather conditions, no aggressive boozed-up vagabonds, and almost perfect road conditions....apart from that weird gravel through Streat. A lovely night out, although I had to stop a couple of times on Ditchling for some quiet reflection on The Meaning of Life.
I dashed back to London to leap into a morning suit to begin a ten hour epic of Marriage, Communion Mass and feasting. It was a very happy event. The cycling too.

Thank you all.

Edit: 29.1 mph only, alas.


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## User10571 (7 Sep 2014)

I've been through there at 38.something mph (my max velocity ever) and failed to trigger it.
And I was trying....


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## redfalo (7 Sep 2014)

I have to say that I had several moments of panic with regard to this ride.

The first one was after having logged on to the WIFI of a French campground in late August and realizing the tremendous interest in the ride on Cycle Chat. I was expecting 10 to 15 riders, if at all, but over only a few days twice that number had already signalled interest. I had not completed my cat herding diploma (to borrow @StuAff nice phrase) and did really not fancy leading 80 or 100 riders, potentially many first timers, over an un-recceed route and through Gatwick Airport on my first ride.

The second moment of panic happened around 7pm on Friday night. What if my bike breaks down on the way to Hyde Park Corner or during the night? What if my Garmin crashes? If we get expelled from Gatwick? If nobody turns up? When I arrived at HPC at 11.20pm, I was surprised that about a dozen riders were already waiting and I briefly checked if I was late.

31 riders left Hyde Park Corner. (One of them dressed with a suit, tie and a bowler hat.)

Pacing the ride properly was more difficult than I expected. It felt to me that the departure from London was much slower than on proper FNRttCs, but the tail end later told me that the pace was rather brisk. (Hopefully, it was not too fast.)

We weren't pressed for time because our breakfast place in Brighton wasn't opening until 8am. The Madeirea café wasn't an option because of the Speed Trials, hence we went to Wetherspoons.

It all went swimmingly. As forecasted, the night was bone dry an rather warm. Being right at the front of the ride was fun, in particular on Lonesome Lane. “It doesn't get much better than this”, @ianrauk said when we dashed down Lonesome Lane, and he was definitely right.

I ditched my original idea of riding all the way back to London at Three Bridges, where @mistral and I took a train to Victoria. We later found out that there is a Wetherspoons right inside the station... Ian's route from Brighton to Crawley was beautiful, and Devil's Dyke was another first for me.

I'm glad that everyone seems to have had a nice time – thanks everyone for your company. I'm particularly grateful to @ianrauk and @Tim Hall , who stayed with me at the front, to @mistral, @Flying Dodo and @Trickedem who taking care of the TEC duties. And of course to @dellzeqq who supported me with a lot of advice beforehand.

Looking forward to doing this again.


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## ianrauk (7 Sep 2014)

Make that Brighton to Crawley @redfalo 

Thanks for organising this Olaf. It really turned out out to be a fantastic ride, (notwithstanding a crappy tarmac resurfacing on what used to be a great piece of road at Streat). The warmest night ride of the year, (short sleeved jersey all night with no use for the stashed armwarmers). a manic suicidal mouse and a brilliant ending finishing with a quickly served, cheap, tasty full English (real sausages) and free coffee refills in great, comfortable surroundings.

Great to see everyone and always nice to meet some new friends from this forum.


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## velovoice (7 Sep 2014)

Thoroughly enjoyed that, Grumpy Knee notwithstanding. Love this route. 
A few pics here.


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## velovoice (7 Sep 2014)

ianrauk said:


> a crappy tarmac resurfacing on what used to be a great piece of road at Streat


Would this be "chipseal", the bane of this country as it's cheap as chips (comparatively speaking).
Seems to be an epidemic of it this year.


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## ianrauk (7 Sep 2014)

velovoice said:


> Would this be "chipseal", the bane of this country as it's cheap as chips (comparatively speaking).
> Seems to be an epidemic of it this year.




Indeed...the very same


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## Mr Orange (7 Sep 2014)

Many thanks Olaf. Great ride and really enjoyed it. Also a very big thank you to the lady with the coffee just before the Beacon. Never has a cup of coffee tasted so good.


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## slowmotion (7 Sep 2014)

Mr Orange said:


> Many thanks Olaf. Great ride and really enjoyed it. Also a very big thank you to the lady with the coffee just before the Beacon. Never has a cup of coffee tasted so good.


Oops! I forgot to thank the Hatlers. Many thanks to them, belatedly.


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## Tim Hall (7 Sep 2014)

redfalo said:


> I have to say that I had several moments of panic with regard to this ride.
> 
> What if my Garmin crashes? If we get expelled from Gatwick?


If the Garmin crashes at least half the riders know the way.
If we get expelled from Gatwick we either go to Tesco at Crawley (4km) or Pease Pottage services (9km).

But we didn't have to.

That was an excellent ride and my first SMRbH. Thanks everyone for making it happen.


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## hatler (7 Sep 2014)

Olaf, thank you hugely for that, and for letting interlopers in at seven eighths distance. A perfect night in so many ways.

Apart from the abomination that was Streat Lane. Just a month ago I was extolling the virtues to Dellzeqq himself about what a wonderful job they had done on it by relaying whole stretches of the surface which had taken a knock through the winter. Not only was it gorgeously smooth it was also pot hole free.

Sadly, they tarred and chipped the whole bloody length of it on Thursday. Really really _really_ not nice.

By the time we hauled away this evening it was already an order of magnitude better.

Kids were delighted (once again) to be a part of the ride and hats off to Mrs H who has assumed coffee duties without any complaining (and also has to wake and prepare the children).

Stu, thank you very much for looking after Joe on his way up the hill, and Adam, thank you for taking on that responsibility to the top of the hill by the golf course.

Apologies for not joining Team Beer. We headed instead to the other Wetherspoons (and bumped into Trickedem and set him on the right way) and then for the front to watch such wonders as a 7 litre Cortina Mk II try to get from one end of Madeira Drive to the other as fast as possible (and in one piece).

After watching the morning session there we headed back to the van on Streat Lane where I survived without nodding off until 10pm.

Happy days.


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## hatler (7 Sep 2014)

kimble said:


> I *may* have accidentally set the speed camera off a little bit... (42.1mph)


I think we're closing in on the limit this camera is set at.

Joe at 36 was no flash.
I didn't get one at 40.


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## redfalo (7 Sep 2014)

slowmotion said:


> Oops! I forgot to thank the Hatlers. Many thanks to them, belatedly.


so did I...


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## ianmac62 (7 Sep 2014)

Mrs H is a star!!!


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## slowmotion (7 Sep 2014)

ianmac62 said:


> Mrs H is a star!!!


 Children and Father, likewise.


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## srw (7 Sep 2014)

hatler said:


> 7 litre Cortina Mk II try to get from one of Madeira Drive to the other as fast as possible (and in one piece)



One _side_? About as far as I'd expect a 7litre archaic Ford to get.


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## Tim Hall (7 Sep 2014)

hatler said:


> I think we're closing in on the limit this camera is set at.
> 
> Joe at 36 was no flash.
> I didn't get one at 40.


Radar reflective area also plays a part. I think you need two cyclists on uprights next to each other. Or one recumbent - more metal in it. Innit. I mentioned on the ride my plans to make a gilet out of a space blanket to give greater area to a single rider.


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## slowmotion (7 Sep 2014)

Tim Hall said:


> Radar reflective area also plays a part. I think you need two cyclists on uprights next to each other. Or one recumbent - more metal in it. Innit. I mentioned on the ride my plans to make a gilet out of a space blanket to give greater area to a single rider.


 No need for that. This one comes with a handy helmet mount. I'm sure that a cap mount can be put together with half a reel of duct tape.


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## hatler (7 Sep 2014)

User said:


> Its OK, I waved to them as they crossed Old Steiner.


Of course ! I'd forgotten about that. I hardly recognised you without the bowler.


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## hatler (7 Sep 2014)

srw said:


> One _side_? About as far as I'd expect a 7litre archaic Ford to get.


Doh ! Now corrected.

On its second run it got about 20 feet before the bonnet lifted and creased over the roof.


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## Tim Hall (7 Sep 2014)

slowmotion said:


> View attachment 55523
> 
> No need for that. This one comes with a handy helmet mount. I'm sure that a cap mount can be put together with half a reel of duct tape.


Ah. That explains the shape of some of the more exotic headgear we saw.


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## hatler (7 Sep 2014)

On the way down after the Beacon.


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## hatler (7 Sep 2014)

A city gent taking coffee.


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## hatler (7 Sep 2014)

ianmac62 said:


> Mrs H is a star!!!


Why do you think I married her ?


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## hatler (7 Sep 2014)

User10571 said:


> Rob, I cannot imagine that you having to put in some effort to keep up with Joe is anything other than a good feeling!
> 
> Have fun All!
> I'll be with you in spirit...



Hmmmm. Mixed.

Good. He's getting faster, stronger, etc etc
Bad. I'm getting older and more decrepit.


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## Dawn_C (8 Sep 2014)

Morning all,

I just wanted to thank everyone for making me feel so welcome on Friday night (this was only my second FNRttC) – I had a brilliant time, absolutely loved it all, great route, great weather, and great cycling! Thanks especially to Olaf for organizing, and letting me join you all, and to the Wayfinders and Tail End Charlies who did a superb job.

Best wishes, Dawn


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## hatler (8 Sep 2014)

kimble said:


> (Still quite impressed that I managed Ditchling Beacon pedalling entirely on the left leg. Made easier by not wearing a silly hat, of course.)


Bloody hell !! That is impressive.


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## BromyG (8 Sep 2014)

Thanks Olaf (@redfalo) for a great ride!
Many thanks also to @Trickedem, @Flying Dodo, @mistral and @User (hope I got the names right!) for your assistance and support when stuck with the only visitation of the night! Don't worry about the mysteries of the folding small wheel things, we Bromptoneers are usually self-sufficient! (and thanks too @Trickedem for the photo of my misfortune, didn't realise you'd taken that!)


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## hatler (8 Sep 2014)

Dawn_C said:


> Morning all,
> 
> I just wanted to thank everyone for making me feel so welcome on Friday night (this was only my second FNRttC) – I had a brilliant time, absolutely loved it all, great route, great weather, and great cycling! Thanks especially to Olaf for organizing, and letting me join you all, and to the Wayfinders and Tail End Charlies who did a superb job.
> 
> Best wishes, Dawn


It's oft quoted that the Fridays rate right up there with the 'most fun you can have on two wheels' competition.

It pays back in spades all the little doubts, fears, the moments where the "Oooo, I don't really have to do this tonight" thoughts become almost overwhelming. There isn't a ride I've done where, before the off, I've not seriously considered simply not turning up. The siren call of one's bed is a powerful thing.

And yet, every time, I keep going, and once I'm out of the front door, I just _know_ everything is going to be great. And once the ride itself kicks off I question how I could ever, possibly, have doubted for a single second the decision to do it. (Which makes the next ride's round of repeated doubts all the more strange.)


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## clivedb (9 Sep 2014)

I just wanted to add to the thanks to Olaf for getting this ride organised and especially for not running away when it began to look as if he might have taken on a much larger responsibility than he expected. It was impeccably organised within the Legg template and was another great night ride, even though I think that was my slowest ascent of Ditchling. There was a man in a bowler hat behind cursing all the way up on a Brompton, so I didn't feel able to take a rest - how could I justify it given my multiple gears? It was also my pleasure of course to be able to bring Liam on his first (of many?) night ride, which he greatly enjoyed.


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## clivedb (9 Sep 2014)

User said:


> Sorry about that, I think there may be a Brompton specific form of Tourette's.



I was just impressed you had so much breath to spare! Indeed I remain amazed by the way people get up Ditchling on fixed gears, recumbents, Bromptons etc


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## kimble (9 Sep 2014)

clivedb said:


> I was just impressed you had so much breath to spare! Indeed I remain amazed by the way people get up Ditchling on fixed gears, recumbents, Bromptons etc



There's nothing amazing about climbing hills on a Streetmachine. It's a touring bike, and is designed for doing just that, with 4 full-sized panniers of stuff thrown in for good measure - stable, low gearing, pretty much the ideal bike for twiddling up a hill slowly. I twiddled my way across Wales on it last week with full camping kit, so Ditchling wasn't that big a deal, even if my knee was protesting.

Climbing hills on bikes without low gears impresses me more, whatever their shape, as it tends to mean you have a much harder time keeping above stall speed - there's no option of taking it slowly.

But really, when it comes to climbing hills, it's not really about the bike. It's a simple matter of rider strength vs all-up weight. This is why people think recumbents are slow up hills: they're not, but they allow a rider of a given fitness to be much faster on the flat.


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## HorTs (13 Oct 2014)

I wrote a little review of the ride for my blog here - http://bit.ly/1v363Uz - I ment to post earlier but forgot. BTW, weirdos is meant with all possible endearment.


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## hatler (13 Oct 2014)

Harking back to an earlier thread for a Brighton FNRttC, there was much comment about the wonderful new Ladies and Gents at Gatwick. Following this recent visit, it was clear that things weren't quite as fragrant as previously, indeed, some might even have commented that they were, in fact, a bit smelly actually. And did anyone spot how many were out of action ?

Well, all is now clear. I have a friend in the world of airport design and he explained how the new owners of Gatwick wanted to make a quick and bold statement about how they are going to run things now they are in charge, and, apparently, jazzing up the lavatorial facilities is a relatively quick, pain free and cheap way of making a bold statement of intent.

Sadly though, they did it a little too quickly, and the design wasn't too clever, nor the execution come to that. They are a nightmare to clean (hence why so many are closed as they haven't got enough / won't pay for the cleaning staff), and the smell is a result of poor design.


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## User10571 (13 Oct 2014)

hatler said:


> Harking back to an earlier thread for a Brighton FNRttC, there was much comment about the wonderful new Ladies and Gents at Gatwick. Following this recent visit, it was clear that things weren't quite as fragrant as previously, indeed, some might even have commented that they were, in fact, a bit smelly actually. And did anyone spot how many were out of action ?
> 
> Well, all is now clear. I have a friend in the world of airport design and he explained how the new owners of Gatwick wanted to make a quick and bold statement about how they are going to run things now they are in charge, and, apparently, jazzing up the lavatorial facilities is a relatively quick, pain free and cheap way of making a bold statement of intent.
> 
> Sadly though, they did it a little too quickly, and the design wasn't too clever, nor the execution come to that. They are a nightmare to clean (hence why so many are closed as they haven't got enough / won't pay for the cleaning staff), and the smell is a result of poor design.


Gone is the golden age of air travel - I'm not sure that ever experienced it, In fact, I'm pretty sure that I didn't.
For me it was almost always cramped seats and endless hanging about (additional retail opportunities).
Dijon Vu.
What's that?
The same mustard as you had yesterday.


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## Aperitif (14 Oct 2014)

User10571 said:


> Gone is the golden age of air travel - I'm not sure that ever experienced it, In fact, I'm pretty sure that I didn't.
> For me it was almost always cramped seats and endless hanging about (additional retail opportunities).
> Dijon Vu.
> What's that?
> The same mustard as you had yesterday.


You have Maille..


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