# Audax question



## skut (20 Jul 2007)

A simple question:

Does anyone know if I can enter an Audax on the day?

I quite fancy riding the Colney Heath one this Sunday, but it's a bit late to send of the app form via snal mail.

thanks


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## Dave Davenport (20 Jul 2007)

Not normally a problem.


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## Tim Bennet. (20 Jul 2007)

Dave Davenport said:


> Not normally a problem.



I think it's better to try and give the organiser a ring if you can. EOD are not something they try to encourage for a number of reasons, except prehaps for shorter events where they are trying to get more people to give it a try.

Reason: The Brevet cards have to be preordered and printer.

The 'staffing' at the start tends to be a but thin so any additional work like entering people can delay the whole process.

Sometimes food is provided by the origaniser either at the end or at an otherwise isolated control and knowing numbers helps with his catering arrangements.


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## bof (20 Jul 2007)

If you do, pre-print the entry form from the Audax site and fill the form in advance and take along an SAE that the brevet can be returned to you in.


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## twentysix by twentyfive (20 Jul 2007)

All good advice. Check with the organiser.


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## WindyRob (20 Jul 2007)

i drove to Midhurst for the Sussex Summer Corker only to be greeted by "sorry no i don't do entry on the day" even though i'd filled out the form and included the stamped addressed envelope...

My advice is ring first

Windy


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## Gavin Gilbert (20 Jul 2007)

Speaking as an ex-organiser, EOL's are a blessing and a curse. Whilst the extra entry fee is always welcome it does add to the work burden at the start as Tim says.

And it adds to the commercial risk of having to purchase extra cards and get additional routesheets printed, as well as a last minute panic to get mor food in.

In fact even late entries are a pain in the bum as the cards need to be ordered a week in advance (it always seemed to be the old lags who entered late too - and they all had non-standard/crappy recycled envelopes too).

So yes, phone the organiser....


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## andy_wrx (21 Jul 2007)

Gavin, as an ex-organiser, how do you react to someone like me ? 
Does it mess-up your organising, or AUK HQ, or is it something that's simply never been heard of before ? (- can't believe that)

I want to do the odd audax, simply as a training ride.
I'm not interested in brevets, certificates, points, whatever, so I'm not going to join AUK or collect the things.

I'm a tri/duathlete, I do TT's, I also do some sportives. To me the odd audax (200k or less) is a good training ride.

I did a flat 200 in Cheshire early this year and a hilly one in WYorks.
Both had lots of older guys on tourers with bulging Carradices, but also lots of younger guys on carbon race bikes and wearing club or team-replica kit : they were going for it and it didn't look a lot different to a sportive (except having a route card rather than arrows and being £4 rather than £20...)

That suited me - to get in with one of these groups and whip round was good training, with options to stop at the caff or just chew on a flapjack on the way round depending on how I felt.

I understand the point of pre-entering, sending an SAE so I can get the routesheet and whatever info before the event, plus the organiser knows how many are going to turn-up, can plan food at the finish, etc.

But I don't want my brevet card back afterwards, I'm not collecting the things, so the second SAE seems a waste.
In fact, whilst I'll stop at the manned controls, if too many are the 'treasure-hunt' variety I might not bother stopping to find the answer or get a pencil out to write it down.


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## yello (21 Jul 2007)

I'm also not overly interested in having the brevet card returned. I think I actually offended one organiser when I said not to bother sending the card because it only went into the recycling!


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## andrew_s (21 Jul 2007)

The only thing I've heard our local organisers grumbling about is behaviour at the start & near controls (peeing in the hedges), and riders who pack not notifying either him or a controller.
The latter often include local club riders treating it as a training ride, and just going home at the end because the official finish is out of their way.
It's a pain because if the organiser doesn't recognise the name, he won't know it's not a novice rider being very slow or in trouble, and will have to keep the finish control open until/past the official closing time, and may even end up driving round part of the route looking for them.

If you don't want the card returned, probably the simplest is just to write "No Validation please" where you are meant to sign the card at the finish.

EOL is welcomed, but you may get a late start if he has to recycle DNS cards, as he will have to allow a bit of late arrival leeway before marking someone as DNS and giving their card away.
Some organisers don't do EOL, but I think these will mostly say so on the calendar (check both notes and the entry closing date).

Whilst it's best to phone, try not to leave it until the night before the start - the organiser will have plenty to be doing then without adding blathering on the phone to the list.


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## Blonde (24 Jul 2007)

Andy wrx - I think you've got a point there - if AUK want to encourage wider participation in events, which I think they do, they're going to have to start being more flexible about EOL (many organisers do already do this as standard though) and brevet cards/info controls etc. As you point out, it's really only those who are AUK members _and_ actually want to collect points/prizes that need a brevet card at all. Maybe it would be simpler to just sign on at controls (as many organisers do already anyway - just so they know who has passed through) rather than bother with cards/info controls at all for those people - I don't think it would create any more work for the organiser.


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## Gavin Gilbert (24 Jul 2007)

As a now thankfully impartial outsider...

The problem lays with the fact that AUK have to operate minimum standards for events to comply with ACP rules, as well as keeping their hardcore and quite insular CTC-centric regulars happy. Not an easy balancing act.

There was/is also a drive from the last PBP onwards to make AUK 'more professional' in the way it operates and to enforce that downwards to the organisers. Which is a good thing. I've rode some peerless events (anything run by Rocco and Liz, the Gourmet, and the Cotswold Beacon) and some that were a bloody shambles (hello Reading DA - you know who I'm talking about!).

A big part of the professionalism drive was a focus on Risk Management and being forcing organisers to think about what they were asking entrants to do was, I believe, the primary reason behind the Risk Assesment process. It was certainly something I appreciated as a new organiser and I would state that it actively improved my events - more so than the mentoring scheme.

Leaving the logistics of the event to one side - whilst I was content to have punters turn up on the day to ride The Anfractuous - a hilly 200 in early October, I was less keen to accept casual entries on the proposed January 200. Simply because I didn't think it reasonable to sandbag those who hadn't seen the routesheet and worked out that "2,700 metres of climbing, the last 1/3rd being flat" equated to the first 2/3rds being a bit of a gnarly old bugger. It's all part of the control of an event.

As far encouraging wider participation: I'm afraid I'm not so sure. I had the distinct impression that significant numbers of AUK's and many on the committee want (or wanted) AUK to be the hard rider section of the CTC. And the CTC simply ain't attractive to the average sporting cyclist.

EOL isn't going to help - you can almost never enter a sportif on the line. My club hold our Sportif on the same day, over the same hills, from a location next 2km away from the Chilterns 100km Audax. We are expecting 500 riders - the Audax will get 60. Does that make my point?


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## Blonde (25 Jul 2007)

'Tis the way they are marketed I think - well, AUK doesn't really market their rides enough, that's the problem! I notice hardly any are mentioned in C Plus or other mags in the 'what's on' bit, it's mostly sportives. They should advertise the shorter, more accessible distance events (eg. 50-150km) in more places IMO - they are the ones that attract more people so the number of entries should pay for any advertising costs. The image of audax according to the people I know who are not members of AUK, is not very attractive. I'm not sure why this is, exactly, but AUK needs to find out, do some research and do something about it.


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## Tim Bennet. (25 Jul 2007)

Blonde is quite right. The way Audax has been traditionally promoted (or rather, not been promoted), has allowed it to gain an image of dour, bearded loners, slowly peddling along the byways of Britain, in a vain attempt to postpone their appointment with St Peter.

Whether this is the true picture, or even one that Audax is happy with, is not the issue. It is the perception people have of them and the position which any 'promotional campaign' would have to address. The proof of this situation is gained when you talk to others within the wider cycling community (ignoring non cyclists for a moment). If you say you are a 'roadie', but you don't race as you prefer 'Sportives' including the Etape, Marmotte, Ardechoise and Paris Roubaix, people are envious. If you say you are an Audax rider and have done all sorts of great rides including PBP, they just look at you with pity and mutter 'sad bastard'.

However, there is one 'problem' with Audax riding that would cause tremors of fear to strike the heart of any PR people trying to promote a new image. Basically it's a sport based on riding further and further. Once over 300km tiredness and sleep deprivation become a significant issue, until you get to the zenith of the sport on the 1200 + km rides where tiredness is a major factor. All the evidence suggests that excessive tiredness is as bad for your judgement as being drunk. So essentially we are trying to populise a sport that could have as its slogan 'Come ride with us. It's cheaper than getting piss drunk - and just as dangerous!'

And then when it's over, loads of people jump in their cars and drive home, log on to their favourite forum and complain about 'inconsiderate nature of other road users'.

Not an easy image to 'spin'.


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## Gavin Gilbert (25 Jul 2007)

Blonde said:


> I'm not sure why this is, exactly, but AUK needs to find out, do some research and do something about it.



I think you witnessed a prime example of why in early December. Having to explain to a Club Committee of racing cyclists that 'it's a stitch-up from AUK again' was the final straw. But what the hell....if that hadn't happened then the rise of 'Club ACF' would have killed it anyway.

Anyhow, I'm pretty sure that AUK's press sec does send the calendar into C+ and The Comic - it's just that those 2 rags don't think Audax is sexy enough to write about.


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## Blonde (25 Jul 2007)

Tim Bennet. said:


> 'Come ride with us. It's cheaper than getting piss drunk



Like it! Though trading standards would have them for saying that - it's not as cheap after you've bought the bike and kit, and I think I spent about £40 on food during one 600... I am also liable to get drunk on about half a pint of cider (cheap date!)


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## Blonde (25 Jul 2007)

Gavin Gilbert said:


> ...those 2 rags don't think Audax is sexy enough to write about.



They need some tight (and possibly wet) jersey, audax girl, pin-up pictures then... I volunteer! (You think I'm joking!  )


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## andy_wrx (25 Jul 2007)

Audax definitely has an image problem. 

Some people who ride sportives most definitely wouldn't ride audaxes. They think they're slow, badly organised, full of beardies-in-sandals, etc. 
_Sportives_ however are sexy, for adventurous, hard-racing, fit characters.

(- I suspect someone who races properly would laugh at sportive riders as 'wannabe-racers' )

But certainly sportives are attracting large numbers of riders, who judging by their bikes have quite a bit of money - it's a bit yuppy.


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## Gavin Gilbert (25 Jul 2007)

andy_wrx said:


> But certainly sportives are attracting large numbers of riders, who judging by their bikes have quite a bit of money - it's a bit yuppy.



I did upset a couple of my former clubmates by suggesting that the Etape was for 'lifestyle' cyclists.


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## bagpuss (26 Jul 2007)

I never had a problem with riders entering on the day . I always had one person dealing with this . The prolbem has already been stated if someone does not sign out at the finish . This is unfair on the organizer . I did not and still do not believe any event under 200k in a true audax . I used them as support events for longer rides . Sportives and a 400 or 600 k audax are totally different types of events . Ps I no longer organize or am member of AUK .

PSS image problem? Gethin Butler rode one of my events for the last PBP {400k} how many sportive riders could follow his wheel?


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## Blonde (27 Jul 2007)

Gavin Gilbert said:


> I did upset a couple of my former clubmates by suggesting that the Etape was for 'lifestyle' cyclists.




That was exactly my point - for some, the image of audax puts them off, for others the image of sportives puts them off. I always thought of sportives as being full of not very experineced posing racer-boys hurtling round on expensive machines and generally pissing people off with silly and dangerous manouveres, guaranteed to casue a big pile up. But apparently, they aren't, well, not in France anyway, and so I'm hoping to give one or two a try next year.


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## asterix (31 Jul 2007)

Just cycling long distances doesn't really appeal to me. I tried audax a few times and got bored with all the checkpoint stuff and points counting. The only audax ride I continued to enter - just for the ride - was the Moors 'illy Imperial because it's always a challenge (especially the wide open moor bit up to and over Rosedale Chimney Bank ). I quite like the idea of sportives and etapes but not the 'lifestyle image'. This year I did the 10 day Raid Pyrenean which was a great experience and a real eye-opener into the sort of climbs and descents the Tour riders cope with. Now I have to go back and explore a bit more of the area.

..and what Blonde says about French sportives and cyclists matches what I have seen.


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## vorsprung (31 Jul 2007)

Blonde said:


> 'Tis the way they are marketed I think - well, AUK doesn't really market their rides enough, that's the problem! I notice hardly any are mentioned in C Plus or other mags in the 'what's on' bit, it's mostly sportives. They should advertise the shorter, more accessible distance events (eg. 50-150km) in more places IMO - they are the ones that attract more people so the number of entries should pay for any advertising costs. The image of audax according to the people I know who are not members of AUK, is not very attractive. I'm not sure why this is, exactly, but AUK needs to find out, do some research and do something about it.



The way I understand it is in terms of "value adding"

Both Sportifs and Audaxes are rides up the road. Now, if the Sporif can give you a timing chip, free stuff on the course (ie gels), massage at the end and a signposted course then that is "adding value" to the event.

Because they do this they attract more people. The cost is not entirely irrelevant but when you consider that most people value their weekends and have already spent 500 quid+ on a bike then 5 quid for an audax or 15 for a sportif it isn't going to be a major deciding point.

So more people are likely to choose sportifs as they see them as a more value packed way to spend their special weekend. 

The higher costs incurred by the Sportif people mean they can advertise as a fractional part of their overheads, whereas for audax this is not an option: there is no budget for it.

Lest we just say "well that's the end of audax" remember that some of the Sportif organisers are commercial and are trying to make a profit. That's an additional cost that audaxes don't have. Like Gavin says, all the audax organisers have to do is budget a tiny amount for basic publicity.


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## stevek (5 Aug 2007)

Please, please, please don't encourage anyone not to register in advance!

I have helped out on many events and late entries are a flippin' nighmare to manage and very unfair on the organisers.


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