# New wheels? - Shimano RS80 C50



## lejogger (18 Apr 2012)

I'm after a little advice from you helpful people if that's ok?

I've been a club rider for a little while now, and because I'll be entering a time trial or two this season I fancy a new wheelset. My Boardman Team Carbon is great, but the entry level Ritchey Pro wheels are perhaps a little on the basic side, and certainly offer little in the way of aero benefit.
I also find myself a little envious of some of the kit the other guys arrive on week in week out, so I'd also like something that looks and performs well on the club ride and possibly in a road race.

I've found a new set of these above mentioned wheels for approx £500. I know I'll still need to get tyres, rim tape, a cassette and a chain, but they look tremendous value for a budget aero wheelset.

So... are they any good? Are there any others I should be considering?


----------



## Andrew_P (19 Apr 2012)

Firstly you can get them a lot cheaper than that I bought mine for £310 + 7.50 delivery they are £299 @ Plant X at the moment , secondly I upgraded from Mavic Askiums to the RS80. Didn't notice a huge difference. The main downside I have had is that they are low volume flat spoked wheels, if you snap one spoke it is an instant bad buckle. I had a bent rear hanger and didn't know and threw my RD in to the spokes on the RS80 instant buckle, had it trued by Evans and within 150 miles I snapped one going up hill instant bad buckle.

The first incident I think any wheel would have suffered, and the second one could have been a duff truing by Evans (over tightening just a few) so don't let it put you off! I would also advise to buy a couple of spokes driveside and non drive as they vary as they are not the sort of thing a local or a lot of internet stores stock..


----------



## Andrew_P (19 Apr 2012)

Ignore my post mine are RS80 C24!


----------



## lejogger (19 Apr 2012)

I was just going to point that out!! Admittedly I did have a look at the C24s (a bargain at £299) but I fancy something with a deeper section rim.


----------



## black'n'yellow (19 Apr 2012)

The OP is asking about the C50s, not the C24s.. 

Although having said that, the C24s are probably a significantly better all-round wheel for club runs, TTs and road racing. The C50s have a bit of a weight penalty for not a great deal of aero advantage - especially if you plan to ride them in groups. Out of those two, my choice would be the C24s - I have the DA versions of those wheels and I think they're excellent all-rounders.

If, on the other hand, you want the 'deep section look' - then get the C50s - but don't kid yourself they are a better 'real-world' option, cos they ain't...


----------



## Andrew_P (19 Apr 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> *The OP is asking about the C50s, not the C24*s..
> 
> Although having said that, the C24s are probably a significantly better all-round wheel for club runs, TTs and road racing. The C50s have a bit of a weight penalty for not a great deal of aero advantage - especially if you plan to ride them in groups. Out of those two, my choice would be the C24s - I have the DA versions of those wheels and I think they're excellent all-rounders.
> 
> If, on the other hand, you want the 'deep section look' - then get the C50s - but don't kid yourself they are a better 'real-world' option, cos they ain't...


 I notice that after I had typed my reply :-)

I agree with you, I saw little benefit other than bling for the 50's, and a downside of maybe a bit more drift in cross winds


----------



## lejogger (19 Apr 2012)

I don't know what to do!
£200 is a significant saving, although Planet X are out of stock. Merlin have them for a smidgeon more.

Are we saying that the weight saving on the C24 will counter any aero and rolling advantage that the C50 might give me?


----------



## Andrew_P (19 Apr 2012)

I just thought the C50 was a halfway house, and as it would be going on my commuter I didn't want to find out if crosswinds were made worse by them. And as you say they are quite a bit (in wheel terms not sure how much you would notice) heavier


----------



## lejogger (19 Apr 2012)

LOCO said:


> I just thought the C50 was a halfway house, and as it would be going on my commuter I didn't want to find out if crosswinds were made worse by them. And as you say they are quite a bit (in wheel terms not sure how much you would notice) heavier


I guess I'm not too concerned about the weight. I generally climb well - I've been climbing on the winter club runs on a very heavy cyclo-cross bike with full rack bag etc, so when the carbon comes out I could probably fly up with a couple of dustbin lids between the forks! To be fair though, I don't actually know how much the Ritchey Pros weigh... and a large consideration was the possbility of time trials, but if the 50s don't offer a significant advantage then they seem pointless if the 24s will offer more or the same in every department.


----------



## black'n'yellow (19 Apr 2012)

lejogger said:


> Are we saying that the weight saving on the C24 will counter any aero and rolling advantage that the C50 might give me?


 
rolling advantage comes from tyres and tyre pressure, so I wouldn't expect any improved 'rolling' advantage from the wheels themselves. The C24s will accelerate quicker and you will notice the lack of rotating weigh when you climb. The C50s are heavier (at the rim, right where you *don't* want it), so will accelerate slower. However, a good deep section will be nice when you're out on your own, at speed, with your face in the wind (like in a TT for example) - the higher mass and aero section will be of use there. However, how much difference they would actually make to someone's notional 10/25//50m TT time would be difficult to establish, as there are so many other factors involved which could affect your performance...


----------



## lejogger (19 Apr 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> rolling advantage comes from tyres and tyre pressure, so I wouldn't expect any improved 'rolling' advantage from the wheels themselves. The C24s will accelerate quicker and you will notice the lack of rotating weigh when you climb. The C50s are heavier (at the rim, right where you *don't* want it), so will accelerate slower. However, a good deep section will be nice when you're out on your own, at speed, with your face in the wind (like in a TT for example) - the higher mass and aero section will be of use there. However, how much difference they would actually make to someone's notional 10/25//50m TT time would be difficult to establish, as there are so many other factors involved which could affect your performance...


 Thanks both for your helpful info.

The tart in me really just wanted someone to stand up and give me a good reason for buying the C50 as IMO they do look very nice, but the hard facts are that I probably wont be using them enough for the purpose that they're designed for for the purchase to be worthwhile. Despite planning on entering club TTs this year, I haven't actually done one yet. I might be crap.

The C24 seem an absolute steal if I can get them for circa £300 and will be hugely more beneficial for the riding that I DO do every week at the moment - i.e. club runs and events. The fact that they're light and have a bladed spoke will be a huge difference over what I have now so I'll be getting a big advantage from that anyway. If they were the same price I may take a gamble, but for £200 more it's a no brainer. 

Thanks for helping to confirm this


----------



## black'n'yellow (19 Apr 2012)

Don't get me wrong - nothing bad will happen if you get the C50s... 

I have a set of C24s and a set of Planet X 50mm full carbon tubulars. The PX wheels are 'race only' wheels - they are very light and offer all the benefits of the deep section design, without the weight of the C50. The C24s get used for general riding, training and wet races, where the braking performance of the aluminium rim is a bit more predictable than the carbon surface on the PX wheels.

Maybe get the C24s now and something a bit more 'aero' once you start to get serious about your TTing...


----------



## Andrew_P (19 Apr 2012)

I think it is the right decision and I think you feel the difference to the Ritchley. On another thread I posted that going from 25mm Roubaix Pro Tyres to GP4000s 23mm I felt a bigger improvement than I did from my wheels alone. So do both and it will feel great!


----------



## fossyant (19 Apr 2012)

Just buy C24's and C50's - N+1 and all counts for wheels too !


----------



## lejogger (19 Apr 2012)

fossyant said:


> Just buy C24's and C50's - N+1 and all counts for wheels too !


 If only the budget allowed for that!


----------



## e-rider (19 Apr 2012)

lejogger, you are basing your decision on the advice of two people from a cycle forum that you have never met! This is not sensible IMO!

Deep section rims will give you an aerodynamic advantage at high speed (25 mph+) but weigh more than more standard profile rims, so are not so good for climbing and accelerating etc.

Having one rim does all, is not easy.

Any wheel with a low spoke count will be in trouble if one spoke breaks, becasue fewer spokes remain to hold the wheel together. However, this doesn't mean that we all ride 36h handbuilt wheels!


----------



## e-rider (19 Apr 2012)

I think the RS80 C50 look like good value compared to the Dura-Ace C50 which is almost double the price. Apart from a titanium freehub body, and the rim decals, what else is different?


----------



## black'n'yellow (19 Apr 2012)

tundragumski said:


> lejogger, you are basing your decision on the advice of two people from a cycle forum that you have never met! This is not sensible IMO!


 
that's the internet for you....


----------



## Andrew_P (19 Apr 2012)

tundragumski said:


> Deep section rims will give you an aerodynamic advantage at high speed (25 mph+) but weigh more than more standard profile rims, so are not so good for climbing and accelerating etc.


 Exactly that is why two people suggested the C24, most of the riding the op will doing will be club group rides, he is only thinking about TT'ing.

I reckon if he finds he is any good at TT he will probably end up with some race wheels. But really will they add much to an amatuer?


----------



## e-rider (19 Apr 2012)

LOCO said:


> Exactly that is why two people suggested the C24, most of the riding the op will doing will be club group rides, he is only thinking about TT'ing.
> 
> I reckon if he finds he is any good at TT he will probably end up with some race wheels. But really will they add much to an amatuer?


 
Deep section rims will not add much to any rider who doesn't spend much time riding at 25+mph, even if all they do is TT. Some people think they look cool though. I think rim depth is inversly proportional to penis length (but that's just my opinion). I do quite like the sound they make, but even that might annoy me after a while.


----------



## Andrew_P (19 Apr 2012)

I have never used them, and do not like the look either, do they feel cross winds more?


----------



## black'n'yellow (19 Apr 2012)

LOCO said:


> do they feel cross winds more?


 
potentially yes, but the issue is not nearly as problematic as some make it out to be...


----------



## lejogger (20 Apr 2012)

tundragumski said:


> lejogger, you are basing your decision on the advice of two people from a cycle forum that you have never met! This is not sensible IMO!


Well not on the face of it no! However I generally trust the advice of people on here who are probably more experienced than I am. It's not like I'll just follow them blindly... I take on board their advice and make my own decision! But I acknowledge the sentiment 


tundragumski said:


> Deep section rims will give you an aerodynamic advantage at high speed (25 mph+) but weigh more than more standard profile rims, so are not so good for climbing and accelerating etc.


My TT goals will include completing a 25 in less than the hour, so travelling at 25mph+ is not unrealistic. In terms of climbing and accelerating, the C50 rims will obviously be a good couple of hundred grams heavier than the C24, but I very much doubt that they'll be heavier than the ritchey wheels I have at the moment?? So will I notice a decline in climbing or accelerating with the C50?
Either way, I'm not going to rush into anything. I was discussing it with a pal in the pub last night, and we came to the conclusion that any performance gains will be so marginal that wheels shouldn't be a priority. It's not like i've ruined a set and am after a replacement. I'm just buying because I like new stuff! I mean what are we talking...? less than a minute gain in a 25mile TT? If you're a good rider you can get good performances from good equipment. You don't have to have very good gear if you already have perfectly fine good gear.


----------



## e-rider (20 Apr 2012)

lejogger said:


> Well not on the face of it no! However I generally trust the advice of people on here who are probably more experienced than I am. It's not like I'll just follow them blindly... I take on board their advice and make my own decision! But I acknowledge the sentiment
> 
> My TT goals will include completing a 25 in less than the hour, so travelling at 25mph+ is not unrealistic. In terms of climbing and accelerating, the C50 rims will obviously be a good couple of hundred grams heavier than the C24, but I very much doubt that they'll be heavier than the ritchey wheels I have at the moment?? So will I notice a decline in climbing or accelerating with the C50?
> Either way, I'm not going to rush into anything. I was discussing it with a pal in the pub last night, and we came to the conclusion that any performance gains will be so marginal that wheels shouldn't be a priority. It's not like i've ruined a set and am after a replacement. I'm just buying because I like new stuff! I mean what are we talking...? less than a minute gain in a 25mile TT? If you're a good rider you can get good performances from good equipment. You don't have to have very good gear if you already have perfectly fine good gear.


 
I would say that wheels are a priority upgrade (depending on what you already have). Very few things (if any) improve a bikes performance more than decent wheels.

I agree that the C50s are still generally quite lightweight so it's not like they will be weighing you down as you ascend!


----------



## VamP (20 Apr 2012)

lejogger said:


> My TT goals will include completing a 25 in less than the hour, so...


 



That's some goal. What's your current 25 time?


----------



## bobones (20 Apr 2012)

The C50s weight about the same as Mavic Aksiums so they're not light. Better off with Dura Ace C24s at around 400g lighter and almost as aero as C50s. "Dura Ace" on the rim alone is worth the extra over RS80s


----------



## lejogger (20 Apr 2012)

VamP said:


> That's some goal. What's your current 25 time?


Well, aim high and all that! 
I don't have a current 25 time... I've never TT'd officially, only against my own clock. I know the speeds that I currently cruise at, and with a bit of practice, training, and a more aero set up I believe that I can achieve this (or I'm willing to give it as good a go as I can). I'm young(ish) and fitter than I've ever been, and fitter and stronger than a lot of guys I ride with.

I'm not saying that it's something that I will easily achieve - I'm also certainly not trying to big myself up or anything, but in our cycling club it's just a bit of a yardstick to aim for. I ride in a club with a number of guys and girls who regularly post under the hour (some by a long way!) and it would be nice to join them.


----------



## VamP (20 Apr 2012)

lejogger said:


> Well, aim high and all that!
> I don't have a current 25 time... I've never TT'd officially, only against my own clock. I know the speeds that I currently cruise at, and with a bit of practice, training, and a more aero set up I believe that I can achieve this (or I'm willing to give it as good a go as I can). I'm young(ish) and fitter than I've ever been, and fitter and stronger than a lot of guys I ride with.
> 
> I'm not saying that it's something that I will easily achieve - I'm also certainly not trying to big myself up or anything, but in our cycling club it's just a bit of a yardstick to aim for. I ride in a club with a number of guys and girls who regularly post under the hour (some by a long way!) and it would be nice to join them.


 

Good luck. 

I was chatting to a coach recently, who had a lady TT athlete come to her and ask her help to get to sub hour 25. She was around the 70 minute time mark, and was told that this was ''a big ask''. 

Two years later and the athlete in question was regularly posting sub-hour, so it is by no means impossible. Her name is Rebecca Slack, you might want to google that to help keep in perspective the size of the task!

To return to your OP, I would suggest to go ride a TT. Then try a road race, and a cyclocross. Then decide what you like most, and start investing money in gear for the discipline that you want to focus on. You might find that TT is not what you like the most. Nobody has unlimited resources, and cycling competitively costs. I have learned that much


----------



## lejogger (20 Apr 2012)

VamP said:


> Good luck.
> To return to your OP, I would suggest to go ride a TT. Then try a road race, and a cyclocross. Then decide what you like most, and start investing money in gear for the discipline that you want to focus on. You might find that TT is not what you like the most. Nobody has unlimited resources, and cycling competitively costs. I have learned that much


 Thanks VamP that is really good advice... I certainly don't have unlimited resources, and because I also invest a bit of time and money on the golf course  I have to be careful about what I choose to spend on what. 
I guess as a club we're quite TT focussed because we have a member who's a national record holder at a number of distances so it's only natural to gravitate that way.


----------



## iLB (20 Apr 2012)

I say go for it, with the right level of application sub hour is doable for most people I think. If I were you I'd invest in a set of 50mm tubs rather than clnchers and save them specifically for racing, then you will really feel the benefit when you need it- and trust me you can feel the difference.


----------

