# Easy to get confused by expert cyclists.



## gavroche (24 May 2021)

I have done a lot of reading on the next bike I wish to buy. My budget is £1500 max and, according to expert cyclists, this is just entry level bikes and not worth looking at because they don't have the latest deraileurs/ train set/ carbon frames etc.....
I have no intention of entering any races, not bothered about losing a few grams here and there, don't wish to go from a to b as fast as possible, not interested in climbing 25% slopes.
Two of my bikes have aluminium frames with carbon forks and Claris gear change. My other one is full carbon and 105 gear change but I am happy with riding either of them.
I think those reviews by experts are designed to guide you to spend more money than you intend to really by playing on your ego so I will stick to my budget and am pretty sure I will get a very decent bike that will meet my needs and make me happy when I ride it.
Last night, I was watching a report on YouTube on bikes up to 1500 euros and the guy was rubbishlng them all, saying that no bike is worth buying unless you spend at least £3500 !!
Do you take much notice of experts when you look for a new ride?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (24 May 2021)

No


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## byegad (24 May 2021)

No!


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## Dave Davenport (24 May 2021)

Even buying at full list price you can get a great bike for around a grand these days.


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## ianrauk (24 May 2021)

None what so ever.
If I want a bike and I like it, however much it costs, then I'll make that decision. No one else.


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## MichaelW2 (24 May 2021)

The mistake a lot of new riders make is buying either a "podium-ready" bike or a wannabe race bike. At the budget end , road bikes are rarely dedicated race bikes and need to adapt to winter rides, commutes or light touring.
If you expect "to medal" then enjoy the podium and get the best race bike you can but you will also need a winter hack bike.

Shimano components are generally durable and reliable even in lower groupsets.


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## Eric Olthwaite (24 May 2021)

gavroche said:


> Do you take much notice of experts when you look for a new ride?



As in so many areas of life, those who claim to be experts are not. You'll get much more expert advice on here than you will in a magazine review or YouTube video.


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## tyred (24 May 2021)

People writing for magazines will peddle their sponsor's wares.


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## PaulSB (24 May 2021)

Nope. Plenty of good bikes available at £1500. I take note of the recommendations from my LBS, read reviews and make a decision. Within reason I'm not fussed about cost, the real question is will it do the job?


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## gavroche (24 May 2021)

. Well, the bike I am interested in is the Trek al3 with disc brakes at £995. I like the look of it and answers all my needs. As soon as they have one in stock in my Lbs , I will go and have a proper look at it, with my wife's blessings too.


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## Oldhippy (24 May 2021)

It's all relative I suppose. I have one bike, a tourer. It does that brilliantly it is also daily transport, shopper, trailer towing for bigger stuff and everything in between. I buy the best I can afford when replacing things. Had it 15 years so far. The experts in magazines have no relevance to me as a daily bike rider.


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## ianrauk (24 May 2021)

gavroche said:


> I will go and have a proper look at it,


... and there you go.. that's all that matters.


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## Dave Davenport (24 May 2021)

I never buy cycling magazines but Mrs D got me a copy 'Cyclist' for my birthday. The monthly product review consisted of a £10k bike, £3.5k wheel set, £300 shoes, £200 shorts. 
I can see how easily someone new to cycling could get the impression that's the type of money you need to spend.


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## Arrowfoot (24 May 2021)

The reviews depend on manufacturers and distributors sending samples for reviews. If they are not done to their satisfaction, the reviewers are on their blacklist. GCN has a broad appeal so they can be more objective. None however have identified a design flaw on their own. They raise it when someone else brings it up and the whole world already knows about it. 

Best place to get a sounding are bike forums and asking owners for their views. Especially those who own N bikes and are not too precious about a particular purchase. With the numbers responding you will get a better sample size. 

Best is to read up and and do comparison plus forum views.


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## gavroche (24 May 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> What is it that your existing bikes do not do that you want your new bike to do? If you're happy riding either of your existing bikes, then why are *you looking to buy a new one?*
> 
> Thinking carefully about that will give you a specific set of requirements. With that you can look for bikes on the market that match your requirements. If they come under the label "entry level" that's not a problem, unless you are bothered by such labels. Question is: Does it what you want it to do?
> 
> I'm not at all sure who the "experts" you are referring to are. But if I was buying a new bike (which I'm not) and someone had specific expertise in a subject that I don't know about - eg disk brakes, or something like that, then sure, yes I'd listen to them. Why would you not?


Because I just fancy it and it will probably my last new buy.


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## Profpointy (24 May 2021)

£1500 should get a genuinely very nice bike, and more than that you are into diminishing returns and / or bling. There's nothing wrong with paying more and if I ever get another bike it'll likely be a bespoke lugged frame beauty for a good bit more, but I'd still say £1500 is around the sweet cost/niceness/quality/value.

The most important thing is that it's the right type of bike for your envisaged purpose, fittness level and above all, size.
Are you pretty fit and intend to race or do fast day-day rides - then a "road" bike maybe what you want. Want to commute, carry a bit of luggage / go shopping / go up steep hills, then maybe an "audax" bike or light tourer would be better. Doesn't look much different from the "road" bike but will have lower gears for hills, mudguards, and a pannier rack, and is arguably the near perfect all-rounder bike

Mountain bikes are another thing again

For what it's worth I reckon "entry level" is maybe £400 for a brand new bike. Less than that it has a fair chance of simply being crap


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## Milkfloat (24 May 2021)

Journalist ≠ Expert. Today's cycling journalist is likely to be a freelance kid writing from home simply rehashing marketing materials from the importers. They are just as likely to be putting together an article for the Grocer Magazine as they are a Cycling one.


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## vickster (24 May 2021)

Nope, I don't buy complete bikes off the peg any more as they don't have the spec or bits I want!


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## Teamfixed (24 May 2021)

I cant help feeling we are losing our way with this whole "new bike" thing. £1500? well if that does not get you something decent enough to get a lot of enjoyment out of cycling then I'm going to eat my Brooks


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## Donger (24 May 2021)

In all walks of life "experts" will try to convince you to spend three times as much as you need for the ultimate bit of kit. Be it bikes, golf clubs, ski-wear or Jeremy Clarkson telling you not to settle for anything less than Bugatti Veyron. Ignore them all and get whatever bike will do whatever it is you want from it. £1,500 is more than enough to find yourself a great bike, whatever type you are looking for.


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## Smokin Joe (24 May 2021)

£1500 will buy you a bike that would have been under a Tour de France winner two decades ago. Cycling magazine and online reviews are aimed at the "It's the latest fashion so I must be in on it" type of cyclist, well heeled with plenty of disposable income and little or no understanding of bicycles. It's all image or nothing.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 May 2021)

tyred said:


> People writing for magazines will peddle their sponsor's wares.



It might even be acceptable if they actually pedalled the wares before emitting their guff.


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## Baldy (24 May 2021)

I have three bikes, I'd still get change out of £1500 for all of them. 
Just remember your EX is a has been. 
A SPERT is a drip under pressure.


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## Dag Hammar (24 May 2021)

Many years ago I had an interest in HiFi equipment and regularly forked out for What Hi Fi magazine. In fairness I did enjoy reading them and sorting out which item(s) might be a good buy for me.
Then the penny dropped. I realised that the producers of these magazines whether it be for HiFi, cars, bikes or whatever are in the business of printing and selling a magazine. The publishers are not a charitable organisation, they are a business like any other.
Once that perspective was in my head I still gathered as much info as I could before making any sizeable purchases but sifted through the info and then made my own mind up.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 May 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> £1500 will buy you a bike that would have been under a Tour de France winner two decades ago.



Not sure he’s after a 20 year old bike.


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## Teamfixed (24 May 2021)

_If _I was going to buy a complete new bike I would save money on the groupset.... even to the point of bottom end as I think the only difference is quality of finish. I have different Campag stuff on different bikes and its clear they have all dropped out of the same manufacturing mold. Id spend the most on wheels in the middle price wise would be the frame. Other stuff like bars are irrelevant/personal taste.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 May 2021)

How many of us here have bought a bike with a higher end group set, only to “down grade” the drive train as things get replaced?


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## vickster (24 May 2021)

New bikes are daftly expensive at the moment, pure lack of supply and high demand. A £1500 spec today was probably £1000-1200 2-3 years ago (it may have been last year's colour scheme as good discounts could be had)


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## ianrauk (24 May 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> How many of us here have bought a bike with a higher end group set, only to “down grade” the drive train as things get replaced?




I originally built up my commute/touring bike with all Ultegra. Slowly but surely it's being swapped to 105.


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## fossyant (24 May 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> How many of us here have bought a bike with a higher end group set, only to “down grade” the drive train as things get replaced?



Don't be silly.  Still got the same groupsets on my old road bikes. The old MTB got some XT bits over the years, and the full suspension's just had a few 'better' bits fitted !

Strickly speaking, you've only got cassettes, chains, chainrings that need replacing.


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## DCBassman (24 May 2021)

And just who defines the limits of 'entry level' anyhow? Expert Schmexpert...
My Trek 800 Sport was the bottom rung of the Trek ladder. Still a good bike. 'Good' is not defined by price. For me, £1500 would be a lottery win amount to spend on a bike, so just go for what you want!


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## T4tomo (24 May 2021)

fossyant said:


> Strickly speaking, you've only got cassettes, chains, chainrings that need replacing.


 So my Ultegra bike, did get Tiagra cassettes, until i discovered Miche ones - which are an upgrade that costs less. Ditto KMC for chains.
chain rings still fine, mechs still fine, broken shifter replaced like for like.


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## biking_fox (24 May 2021)

fossyant said:


> Don't be silly.  Still got the same groupsets on my old road bikes. The old MTB got some XT bits over the years, and the full suspension's just had a few 'better' bits fitted !
> 
> Strickly speaking, you've only got cassettes, chains, chainrings that need replacing.


I'm not up or downgrading my Rohloff, hub gear's for the win, 12 years on it's still going very strong.


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## Drago (24 May 2021)

gavroche said:


> Do you take much notice of experts when you look for a new ride?


I am an expert, and I take a lot of notice. 

That said, I often take serious umbrage with the magazine "experts". I think I've previously regaled you with the tale of the review I read, and it was so dripping in cliche I felt ill, so out of curiosity I googled the author - less than a year earlier he'd been writing for a model railway magazine. Expert indeed.

Imown a Strava segment on a £600 aluminium framed bike, and 11th on another. This large, hesvy, unaerodynamic, middle aged man made a lot of experts look very silly.


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## HMS_Dave (24 May 2021)

Nonsense. None of my bikes are worth more than 300 quid... I have a second hand, generic, heavy steel fat bike from the land of China and an Elephant Bike. If you're into racing, fine, fill ya boots on a ridiculously light, fast (expensive) bicycle. But if you just want to ride, get a bicycle and call yourself a bicyclist no matter what it is at whatever cost....


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## HobbesOnTour (24 May 2021)

DCBassman said:


> And just who defines the limits of 'entry level' anyhow? Expert Schmexpert...
> My Trek 800 Sport was the bottom rung of the Trek ladder. Still a good bike. 'Good' is not defined by price. For me, £1500 would be a lottery win amount to spend on a bike, so just go for what you want!



My Trek 800 Sport!






I'd rather spend my money taking my cheap bike to interesting places.


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## IanSmithCSE (24 May 2021)

Good evening,

Although I agree with a lot of the above, I would also warn against becoming overly cynical and "anything after 753/6 speed is pointless, rant, rant, rant".

I absolutely adore Di2.

At first glance it is impossible to argue that it's good value for money as Ultegra Di2 adds about £1k to the cost of a mechanical 105 build, but once I converted my mindset to using it as electronic shifting should be used rather than as electrically operated mechanical shifting I went from "so what" to that's really nice.

Having said that I also ride a Claris/Aluminium/CF fork as an all rounder and sub 50mile pleasure ride. So I am not of those "once you've tried Di2 you'll never go back" but it is different to a far greater degree than Claris to Ultegra or 525 to a cheaper/mid price CF frame.

This begs the question of have you considered keeping you current bike and putting Di2 onto it, the good thing is that the second hand value of Di2 stuff is quite high, so you would lose not too much if you hated it and resold it.

Bye

Ian


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## vickster (24 May 2021)

IanSmithCSE said:


> ...
> 
> Having said that I also ride a Claris/Aluminium/CF fork as an all rounder and sub 50mile pleasure ride. So I am not of those "once you've tried Di2 you'll never go back" but it is different to a far greater degree than Claris to Ultegra or *525 to a cheaper/mid price CF frame.*
> 
> ...


Surely 525 is steel not CF (presuming CF = carton fibre). Carbon and steel are chalk and cheese fir me at least in terms of ride


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## IanSmithCSE (24 May 2021)

Good evening,

I never intended for the two sentences to be joined to such a degree.

My now deceased 531 frame and my Carbon Fibre frame do ride differently, I could tell the difference if I rode them with my eyes closed, but for me the difference doesn't really matter much, as 531 and 525 are so alike and 525 is much more available I substituted that in. 

Bye

Ian


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## gavroche (24 May 2021)

Originally, I was after the al2 disc but for £100 more , I get Sora groupset instead of Claris and 9 speeds instead of 8 so , for the sake of £100, I think it is worth the extra money.


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## lazybloke (24 May 2021)

When I buy a car I expect to get 10 years out of it, so I've never been one to chase the latest technology.
Same with bikes; I value reliability over performance, so I'll stick with my steel and aluminium bikes, and manual gears.

But I'm glad others pay for the latest technology; that's what funds R&D, and ultimately those new technologies do trickle down to the benefit of us all.


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## stoatsngroats (24 May 2021)

No, I buy a bike if I like it, and Intry to get the best value for my money.
My Genesis was £899, and it’s great for me.
I won’t win any races, not because of my crap bike, but because I don’t enter any.


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## bladesman73 (24 May 2021)

Such a shame that bikes are so expensive. I have a 2.5k carbon racer, 1k alu/carbon racer, then got a 2nd hand alu racer costing me 200 quid and an old dawes steel bike which I have renovated, cost me 250 inc renovation. Barely a difference between them all when riding them as i dont do races just cycle for pleasure. I know many a persom who spend 5k plus on an all singing and dancing race ready beast and they just potter around doing barely 25kph avg...may as well have saved 4k and got a 1k bike. But then if they can afford it...


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## vickster (24 May 2021)

25kph average...pootling?


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## cwskas (24 May 2021)

gavroche said:


> Do you take much notice of experts when you look for a new ride?


I find others doing the kind of riding I want to do and see what they are riding. My bank account always usually keeps me from high-end expenses. But you can save a lot by looking for used bikes that someone bought and rarely rode.

Willie


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## Ming the Merciless (24 May 2021)

vickster said:


> 25kph average...pootling?



Surely pootling is about the effort being put in by the rider, not the speed. So if you are riding at 25 km/h average at 60% of max HR I’d call that pootling. If you’re working at 80% of max, not so much.


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## Drago (24 May 2021)

It's only 15.5ish MPH.


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## Dave Davenport (24 May 2021)

A few guys I ride with have pretty expensive bikes and tend to pay for a bike shop to maintain & repair them, being a self confessed inverted snob I like riding old, quirky stuff and working on it, but it's all good IMO, they're putting money into the industry and LBS's and I'm saving the planet and to be honest, if my premium bonds came up with a million quid I'd probably be ordering a Colnago heritage frame set just because it's a thing of beauty.


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## DRM (24 May 2021)

Dave Davenport said:


> I never buy cycling magazines but Mrs D got me a copy 'Cyclist' for my birthday. The monthly product review consisted of a £10k bike, £3.5k wheel set, £300 shoes, £200 shorts.
> I can see how easily someone new to cycling could get the impression that's the type of money you need to spend.


That’s exactly how that particular publication sells itself, all top end stuff that‘s a pipe dream for most, as is the places they ride, it’s a waste of £5


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## Teamfixed (24 May 2021)

I rather like the reverse snobbery aspect of being quite good on an ok bike but also having put it together myself from used parts that nobody under about 40 have much idea about. I'm not necessarily saying I'm quite good btw. Does that make sense?


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## Milzy (24 May 2021)

No. I know it’s childish but when the guys bonk on their super bikes during our long range club rides It gives me a warm glow inside knowing I got a decent bike, gravel bike & top turbo trainer plus saved a few grand by not making their choices.


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## DaveReading (24 May 2021)

Profpointy said:


> £1500 should get a genuinely very nice bike, and more than that you are into diminishing returns and / or bling.



Arguably the Law of Diminishing Returns for bikes, if strictly interpreted, starts at about a hundred quid.


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## Kingfisher101 (24 May 2021)

gavroche said:


> I have done a lot of reading on the next bike I wish to buy. My budget is £1500 max and, according to expert cyclists, this is just entry level bikes and not worth looking at because they don't have the latest deraileurs/ train set/ carbon frames etc.....
> I have no intention of entering any races, not bothered about losing a few grams here and there, don't wish to go from a to b as fast as possible, not interested in climbing 25% slopes.
> Two of my bikes have aluminium frames with carbon forks and Claris gear change. My other one is full carbon and 105 gear change but I am happy with riding either of them.
> I think those reviews by experts are designed to guide you to spend more money than you intend to really by playing on your ego so I will stick to my budget and am pretty sure I will get a very decent bike that will meet my needs and make me happy when I ride it.
> ...


 No, the only opinion that matters is yours. I've read reviews praising bikes that have had serious issues with them. They are for the companies to sell bikes end of.


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## Profpointy (24 May 2021)

DaveReading said:


> Arguably the Law of Diminishing Returns for bikes, if strictly interpreted, starts at about a hundred quid.



Don't think I agree with that, though perhaps see what you are getting at. I stand by my £400 minimum (OK maybe £300) as much below that you are more likely than not to get something that is so bad it is not really a usable bike.


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## Cycleops (25 May 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Not sure he’s after a 20 year old bike.


Yeahbut a twenty year old bike can be just just as good as one that’s just come off of shop floor. There haven’t been any significant changes in technology in that time apart maybe from Di2 that will make it a better ride or superior in any way.
The only thing that makes the new bike better is the feel good factor.


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## PaulSB (25 May 2021)

I think there are three parts to the buying decision; will the bike fulfill my objectives? Is it a sound investment? Can I afford this?

I would always look at these choices in this order and usually end up spending more than intended. I'm someone who couldn't build a bike, maintain etc. without my LBS. Some people, I think unfairly, categorize me for this as I'm far from all the gear and no idea.

The sound investment is important. Replacing my summer bike would be a £5000 purchase which is not what I paid five years ago. I get huge pleasure from this bike and am still squeezing more performance out of it. I know this wouldn't be the case with a lower specced machine.

Just yesterday while I cleaned her I contemplated a replacement. I'd be too worried about being disappointed to do this. I simply love this bike. So my thoughts have turned to a respray this winter and possibly components upgrade.

I feel the £3000 I spent on this bike was an outstanding investment. It's a joy to ride and with the respray etc. will give me another five years pleasure. I'll be 71 then and I may make different bike choices.

So in short investing in expensive high quality machines is not always a vanity purchase.


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## steve292 (25 May 2021)

PaulSB said:


> I feel the £3000 I spent on this bike was an outstanding investment.


That's what this whole thread boils down to. I spent 2and a half grand on my trek 2 years ago and get as much pleasure from it now as I did then.
I also have an aluminuim spesh allez that I paid 700 notes for in 2013 and thats a fantastic bike as well.


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## HLaB (25 May 2021)

£1500 may not buy the latest brand name but it will by you a d@mm good bike. I don't actually buy a bike often myself and the last couple of times I have went down the frame route. Spent the most possible on the frame and aimed to reuse a old group set and wheels etc. Although the last two times I have had the plan to transfer group sets but ended up going for new or 2nd hand ones, and other new stuff. I have stuck to my original plan of reusing wheels though 🙄


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## Drago (25 May 2021)

steve292 said:


> That's what this whole thread boils down to. I spent 2and a half grand on my trek 2 years ago and get as much pleasure from it now as I did then.
> I also have an aluminuim spesh allez that I paid 700 notes for in 2013 and thats a fantastic bike as well.


But thats not the issue.

If you spend 2 and a half gees and it brings you great pleasure, then no sane person is going to knock you for that.

Its the so called experts telling us we _need _this, or we _need_ that, when in reality we _need_ no such thing. I dare say that in performance terms you'd almost certainly be just as fast, have just as much endurance, or be just as comfortable on a thousand pound bike, which makes a mockery of that which the experts tell us.

That the extra money spent brings you enjoyment through different facets of the ownership experience is not what the OP was on about. He was sounding off about experts telling us how much we _need_ stuff, when none of us do if were honest. We might want it, desire it, enjoy it, but thats a different argument and not what the OP started the thread for, but its kind of inevitable thats the way it ended up.


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## mustang1 (25 May 2021)

This thing about entry-level bikes is a favourite topic of mine and I have to stop myself from trolling these boards....

It's ALL MARKETING. The bike brands show these bikes that cost ten or twenty thousand pounds. The bike media, not knowing what else to talk about, promote these stories of super expensive bikes. The youtube channels also need clickbait so they talk about it too. As do magazine reviewers and so on. And before you know it, that 10k bike has become the standard by which other bikes must be judged. The bike brands do not care whether they sell these "halo" bikes; alll they want to do is get htier brand being talked about and increase prices through-out the range, thus increasing the average price at which a bike is sold. Bingo! And have you ever noticed there are so many "bike brands"? Why's that then? Because it's relatively easy to make a bike frame. But there are far less groupset manufacturers right? Only Shimano/Campagnolo/SRAM; there's a high barrier to entry. Making a frame is far easier - not saying it's totally simple, but the barrier to making/selling one is easy: if you're an independent and cannot make carbon frames due to setup costs, then make a steel frame and everyone will think you are cool. Are you a big company? Great, so make carbon frames and try and convince everyone that your frame is better than the next guy's frame. If you haev a big marketing budget, then you get more brand recognition and sell more frames. Bingo!

There is a caveat though. Generrally speaking, the more expensive frames are better than the cheaper ones. I have a cheapo bike, current list price is £300. I also have a pricier bike and the difference is huge. But then there is the law of diminishing returns. Comparing a £300 bike with a £600 bike leads to large improvements in the dearer bike. Comparing £1000 bike with a £1500 bike, the differences are there but not as noticeable.

So I'm just gonna give a quick answer here which pretty much alludes to what the others have said (that you shouldn't worry about what experts think. Well, except for me of course, as I am an expert. 

Today, in 2021, if you spend £800-1000 on a bike, you're doing a-ok. You'll have strong wheels, a lower end (but stronger and sturdier and longer lasting perhaps) groupset from Japan (those guys sure are a reliable bunch). Then spend £2-.300 on a few tools/clothes/shoes. Ride your bike for a few months, you may have a couple of problems, learn to fix them. Then once this covid goes away, spend the reaminder of your money on a little cycling holiday. So for your £1.5k, you get a great bike, some tools that will last years, some bike clothes to make you comfortable, and a holiday whose memory will last a lifetime.

Now then, how about "entry-level" golf clubs, hifi systems, cushions. (Ok, just joking about the cushions ).


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## biggs682 (25 May 2021)

Dave Davenport said:


> Even buying at full list price you can get a great bike for around a grand these days.


Never spent anywhere near a grand and I have always enjoyed riding my bikes.


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## Kingfisher101 (25 May 2021)

PaulSB said:


> I think there are three parts to the buying decision; will the bike fulfill my objectives? Is it a sound investment? Can I afford this?
> 
> I would always look at these choices in this order and usually end up spending more than intended. I'm someone who couldn't build a bike, maintain etc. without my LBS. Some people, I think unfairly, categorize me for this as I'm far from all the gear and no idea.
> 
> ...


What bike is it please? out of interest.


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## Blue Hills (25 May 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> It's all relative I suppose. I have one bike, a tourer. It does that brilliantly it is also daily transport, shopper, trailer towing for bigger stuff and everything in between. I buy the best I can afford when replacing things. Had it 15 years so far. The experts in magazines have no relevance to me as a daily bike rider.


Got to ask what this is, a pic maybe. Honest request.


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## Oldhippy (25 May 2021)

No problem.


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## Blue Hills (25 May 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> No problem.


Steel raleigh royal?


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## Oldhippy (25 May 2021)

Yep. Love it.


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## Blue Hills (25 May 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> Yep. Love it.


Will keep a look out for them.
Have heard good things in the past about them.
Can i ask what the tubing is?
Were they usually flat bar? Had idea they usually had drops.


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## Dave Davenport (25 May 2021)

biggs682 said:


> Never spent anywhere near a grand and I have always enjoyed riding my bikes.


My current favourite bike was sixty quid (it was the cyclechat bargain of the year mind you).


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## Oldhippy (25 May 2021)

Originally drops but I love butterfly bars. I don't honestly remember the tubing the sticker long rubbed off. Great bike and gone way above my expectations. Just renew bits as they wear out.


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## Milkfloat (25 May 2021)

My bikes range for £30 to over £4k. Each have their own style and ride differently, I don't regret a single penny spent on them. Even the full suspension MTB that hung in my garage pretty much unused for a few years that I lost a fortune on. The smiles per mile on each bike is well worth what I paid. Then again - I just spent £400 on a kayak paddle and realised that I picked the wrong colour


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## davidphilips (25 May 2021)

The cycle industry same as car/beauty/holiday and so on spend vast sums of money paying for advertising and so called experts to help us part with our money, there will always be debate on what bike is best value, lasts longer , what groupset or frame material or wheels are best etc.

My view is that for most you only need one bike that is the correct size, after that its what you want and money spent on cycling is money well spent if you use your new bike/wheels etc.

There are a few i cycle with that have spent vast sums on bikes and just last week was looking at the new bike a custom made Donard costing over 9k nice looking bike made from Reynolds 953.
I was on one of my older bikes perhaps worth about £150 only after the coffee stop when we started cycling again did i think the donard was great looking perhaps as good looking as any bike i have seen but my own test for a really great bike is cycle on it, do a few long cycles and you should not notice any thing or even think about the gears/brakes etc the really good bike is totally unnoticeable when cycling it just does every thing right.

How much to spent on a good bike? only know 2 true answers, law of diminishing returns applies along with how longs a bit of string?

Buy a cheap supermarket bike and it should be ok for short cycles etc but start doing long cycles or hard training on it and it just wont last, buy a top of the range bike with Campagnolo super record etc and end up paying over £300 every time you replace a chain and cassette?


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## Jon George (25 May 2021)

I can't remember where I originally heard/read this, but there are only two things you need to remember about an expert: an 'ex' is a has-been and a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure.


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## Blue Hills (25 May 2021)

davidphilips said:


> The cycle industry same as car/beauty/holiday and so on spend vast sums of money paying for advertising and so called experts to help us part with our money, there will always be debate on what bike is best value, lasts longer , what groupset or frame material or wheels are best etc.
> 
> My view is that for most you only need one bike that is the correct size, after that its what you want and money spent on cycling is money well spent if you use your new bike/wheels etc.
> 
> ...



>>but my own test for a really great bike is cycle on it

I take it you weren't allowed to test ride this "donard" ?(must admit they mean nothing to me in my ignorance)


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## Milkfloat (25 May 2021)

Jon George said:


> I can't remember where I originally heard/read this, but there are only two things you need to remember about an expert: an 'ex' is a has-been and a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure.


Probably further up the thread


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## PaulSB (25 May 2021)

Kingfisher101 said:


> What bike is it please? out of interest.


Cervelo C3 which cost me £3000 and I've since invested £6-700 on wheels.

This one in these colours.

https://images.app.goo.gl/UHL4SyYHsjkdRXJ77

People criticise Cervelo but I don't care. This bike fits like a glove, it's an extension of my body to the extent I don't even know it's there! 😂


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## CanucksTraveller (25 May 2021)

I reckon that about 1000 or so very roughly was (up until recently anyway) the sweet spot where you were pretty much guaranteed to get a really good quality bike. Of course there are performance returns when you pay more, but they're smaller, and for increasingly bigger sums. 

I've said this before but what ticks me off in the last year is the corner cutting by the big manufacturers. Spend 1000-1200 two to four years ago and you were getting at least Tiagra, maybe 105, plus premium tyres like Schwalbe. Tourers usually came with rack, cages etc. Now you're seeing bikes for 1500 notes with a Claris drivetrain (not even Sora), cheap generic tyres, and no "extras" at all. It's rather naughty.


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## Solocle (25 May 2021)

CanucksTraveller said:


> I reckon that about 1000 or so very roughly was (up until recently anyway) the sweet spot where you were pretty much guaranteed to get a really good quality bike. Of course there are performance returns when you pay more, but they're smaller, and for increasingly bigger sums.
> 
> I've said this before but what ticks me off in the last year is the corner cutting by the big manufacturers. Spend 1000-1200 two to four years ago and you were getting at least Tiagra, maybe 105, plus premium tyres like Schwalbe. Tourers usually came with rack, cages etc. Now you're seeing bikes for 1500 notes with a Claris drivetrain (not even Sora), cheap generic tyres, and no "extras" at all. It's rather naughty.


My cannondale came with mid-range Vittoria tyres.






By my reckoning that front one lasted 4000 km, so can't really complain. The replacement there has already been retired (albeit reserved for races, 32mm 4 seasons are more suited to my normal riding).

I guess they're striking a balance between providing reasonable stock equipment, and not costing the earth when you swap for your own prefferred brand of uber-premium tyres, of course.


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## Kingfisher101 (25 May 2021)

CanucksTraveller said:


> I reckon that about 1000 or so very roughly was (up until recently anyway) the sweet spot where you were pretty much guaranteed to get a really good quality bike. Of course there are performance returns when you pay more, but they're smaller, and for increasingly bigger sums.
> 
> I've said this before but what ticks me off in the last year is the corner cutting by the big manufacturers. Spend 1000-1200 two to four years ago and you were getting at least Tiagra, maybe 105, plus premium tyres like Schwalbe. Tourers usually came with rack, cages etc. Now you're seeing bikes for 1500 notes with a Claris drivetrain (not even Sora), cheap generic tyres, and no "extras" at all. It's rather naughty.


Yes its a right swizz, I've bought a MTB 2 years ago, Sram Eagle on it and it was £700 in the sales, its now £1200.
I've got a steel bike which was a 1K in 2013 its now £1500 without rack etc.
And I've got the Triban RC 520 which was £729 and its now £849.( That's the spare really). Its Brexit, the cost of containers has risen massively and supply issues due to the pandemic.


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## davidphilips (25 May 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> >>but my own test for a really great bike is cycle on it
> 
> I take it you weren't allowed to test ride this "donard" ?(must admit they mean nothing to me in my ignorance)



Lol, Guy that owns it is taller than me plus his pedals are look and i use SPDs plus i own 2 stainless volare bikes (both built up buying used frames for a lot less than half the price of 1 Donard frameset) so not really interested in trying it. Donard seem a great bike they are made only a few miles from my home perhaps thats why theres quite a few on club runs etc?

Heres a picture taken during a stop on a club run 3 club members with stainless Donard bikes. Great bikes and should out live the owner by many life times.

Forgot to say, dont even look for a used Donard on Ebay etc as they are as rare as freshly laid Dinosaur eggs.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 May 2021)

A cyclist moan about the cost of things thread and how you could get a complete bike with dura ace for £5 just a few months ago 😁


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## Cathryn (25 May 2021)

Dave Davenport said:


> I never buy cycling magazines but Mrs D got me a copy 'Cyclist' for my birthday. The monthly product review consisted of a £10k bike, £3.5k wheel set, £300 shoes, £200 shorts.
> I can see how easily someone new to cycling could get the impression that's the type of money you need to spend.


I got the women's copy of Rouleur, which was fantastic...but I was appalled at how expensive the stuff they were reviewing was. Bonkers.


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## mickle (25 May 2021)

Years ago I worked for a very small bike distributor in the Scottish borders. We imported a few examples of a really light full sus XC mountain bike with URT rear end, I think it was the first hydroformed bike frame in the UK. I arranged to have it reviewed by the then technical editor of a certain Cycling Pus magazine. I threw a full XT group-set on it. Assembled it from the boxes myself, did a full pro job of setting it up and I delivered it personally. They used to make a big song and dance about taking the bikes apart to weigh them. So they took it apart to weigh it. Put it back together wrong and then completely slagged it off in the article because it didn't work properly. Even the pictures of it were so bad that you couldn't have recognised the bike from the pics. And that was that. We cancelled our order from the Taiwanese factory, lost our deposit.

farking 'experts'. He had REALLY terrible BO as well.


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## Dave Davenport (25 May 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> We have so many of these threads ... Bellyaching about the existence of expensive bikes


My take on the thread is that the complaint is more along the lines of the cycling press etc. giving the impression that everyday leisure cyclists need to spend thousands on a bike and kit rather than the existence of it.


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## Oldhippy (25 May 2021)

Essentially a cycle is a cycle. As with most things these days they invent things that mostly don't need inventing for stuff that did it's job perfectly well beforehand. People old and young have cycled the world on shoppers, unicycle, 50 quid bikes and mega expensive tourers. The experts job is to get you to buy stuff. I buy stuff I consider value for money and does what it says on the box. I wouldn't consider spending 100 quid plus on a waterproof jacket for example when I can get one from army surplus for a tenner that will last years. I will spend 80 quid on two tyres as they will last years but no cheap stuff that I know I will destroy in months.


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## Blue Hills (25 May 2021)

Dave Davenport said:


> My take on the thread is that the complaint is more along the lines of the cycling press etc. giving the impression that everyday leisure cyclists need to spend thousands on a bike and kit rather than the existence of it.


yep - and of course there is the major split between serious racing/time trialling and other cycling - almost anything goes in the former - the rest of us have a far simpler life unless we are determined to be seduced.
there are of course amateur experts - i know someone who fancied getting into touring - a club mate went on and on at him and persuaded him to get a lightweight mercian racer. Beautiful bike but beyond inappropriate for the planned use. In fact bloody useless. The amateur expert had clearly just been following his own ego. This clubmate is now considered a complete twat (actual words I think) by the owner of this beauty. He ended up adapting a Halfords subway I think.


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## Blue Hills (25 May 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> Essentially a cycle is a cycle.


a crude statement but a lot of truth in it.
In short for all but specialist needs I think you just need a decent frame in appropriate material with decent appropriate bits screwed to it with some grease in between. FFS even I can do that. (the screwing in and greasing)
I do sometimes wonder why car companies haven't moved into the cycle business in a neat bit of reverse history (for of course a fair few car companies started out making bikes) - the margins in the car business often seem to be terrifyingly narrow but some companies are clearly enjoying big mark-ups on bikes and bike bits.
And seem to have rather more leeway in their publicity claims.
Maybe some have in a disguised sort of way?


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## HLaB (25 May 2021)

A wee bit OT but similar. The giro was won the other day on Hunt 50mm wheels, ok they are still dear at £879 but compared to others what the so called experts would recommend you'd be talking £3-4k. Putting that aside for a moment, IMO compared to a £50-100 set of wheels there's a good performance gain to a £300-500 set of wheels, a little bit more in a circa £800-1k but after you go much dearer there very little gain and if the giro example is considered again there's none. Its the same with bikes spend a bit more and there is performance to be gained (I'd class £1-1.5k to be in that territory) but beyond that the gains are debateable (and perhaps even non existent).


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## Johnno260 (25 May 2021)

If it makes you smile does it matter what anyone else thinks, my bike was RRP of £1000 yet I paid less as it was last season colours!

Sure I have made some changes but I the frame is solid and as long as the frame is solid I will keep it. 

I do have my eye on a Ribble Ti, I love Ribbles and find them comfortable, but I won’t be reading any reviews if it puts a smile on my face and is comfortable I don’t care.


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## proletaratOne (26 May 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> As usual the rule applies
> 
> If your bike cost more than mine then you have All The Gear And No Idea
> If your bike cost less than mine it is probably Made From Cheese
> My bike, and my bike alone represents Value For Money


I feel similar when I’m driving on the highway 

anyone driving slow is a grandma who should get off the road

a person passes me.... crazy maniac,danger to society


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## proletaratOne (26 May 2021)

mustang1 said:


> This thing about entry-level bikes is a favourite topic of mine and I have to stop myself from trolling these boards....
> 
> It's ALL MARKETING. The bike brands show these bikes that cost ten or twenty thousand pounds. The bike media, not knowing what else to talk about, promote these stories of super expensive bikes. The youtube channels also need clickbait so they talk about it too. As do magazine reviewers and so on. And before you know it, that 10k bike has become the standard by which other bikes must be judged. The bike brands do not care whether they sell these "halo" bikes; alll they want to do is get htier brand being talked about and increase prices through-out the range, thus increasing the average price at which a bike is sold. Bingo! And have you ever noticed there are so many "bike brands"? Why's that then? Because it's relatively easy to make a bike frame. But there are far less groupset manufacturers right? Only Shimano/Campagnolo/SRAM; there's a high barrier to entry. Making a frame is far easier - not saying it's totally simple, but the barrier to making/selling one is easy: if you're an independent and cannot make carbon frames due to setup costs, then make a steel frame and everyone will think you are cool. Are you a big company? Great, so make carbon frames and try and convince everyone that your frame is better than the next guy's frame. If you haev a big marketing budget, then you get more brand recognition and sell more frames. Bingo!
> 
> ...


Yeah was gonna post long diatribe... but this covers about half of it

a non cycling analogy
Some of us are old enough to remember when a cup of coffee ( yeah I’m an American... no tea) was cheap. The Starbucks and other boutique stores start selling a 9 dollar coffee. Soon cheap coffee was 2 and 3 bucks


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## proletaratOne (26 May 2021)

PaulSB said:


> Cervelo C3 which cost me £3000 and I've since invested £6-700 on wheels.
> 
> This one in these colours.
> 
> ...


Can I ask why
I’m kinda new to cycling. Like started last year. And started racing this year

A few guys have cervelos... they look pretty and these guys seem to do fine

what’s the criticism


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## mustang1 (26 May 2021)

proletaratOne said:


> Yeah was gonna post long diatribe... but this covers about half of it
> 
> a non cycling analogy
> Some of us are old enough to remember when a cup of coffee ( yeah I’m an American... no tea) was cheap. The Starbucks and other boutique stores start selling a 9 dollar coffee. Soon cheap coffee was 2 and 3 bucks


There must be a marketing term for this as they're always (it seems) up to this kind of facade.


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## proletaratOne (26 May 2021)

gavroche said:


> I have done a lot of reading on the next bike I wish to buy. My budget is £1500 max and, according to expert cyclists, this is just entry level bikes and not worth looking at because they don't have the latest deraileurs/ train set/ carbon frames etc.....
> I have no intention of entering any races, not bothered about losing a few grams here and there, don't wish to go from a to b as fast as possible, not interested in climbing 25% slopes.
> Two of my bikes have aluminium frames with carbon forks and Claris gear change. My other one is full carbon and 105 gear change but I am happy with riding either of them.
> I think those reviews by experts are designed to guide you to spend more money than you intend to really by playing on your ego so I will stick to my budget and am pretty sure I will get a very decent bike that will meet my needs and make me happy when I ride it.
> ...


Na 1500 should do you wonders, if you don’t mind shopping around used will get you even more bike for buck

and trust everything you ever buy is used , or at least will be. Buy a car and drive it off the lot. Do a round the block and go back to dealer and sell it back to him. He will tell you quick it’s a used car

bike is not too much different


And. 
View: https://youtu.be/3HmVQCAjBE0

With fairly high level riders
Climbs ... thousands of dollars gets a Few seconds and it’s a kilo lighter.... but who here couldn’t just shed a kilo .., I know I could 

brakes... the mighty disc gets ya a few feet

aero... a few seconds and who couldn’t train to be in a bit more aero position on the bike.
And suprise the faster rider was faster regardless of bike

truth is you can’t buy the legs


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## CanucksTraveller (26 May 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> A cyclist moan about the cost of things thread and how you could get a complete bike with dura ace for £5 just a few months ago 😁



No it's not that... I don't mind costs going up; Inflation happens, and demand has driven supply and pricing recently, we all get that. My issue is that the bike goes up "X" number of hundreds of pounds, *AND* the 105 groupset suddenly becomes a Claris. Not a downgrade to Tiagra, or Sora, but flippin' Claris. O_n a grand and a half of bike._
Claris is entry level, it sits on a 400 quid bike from Halfords, it shouldn't come on your 1400 quid road bike. There's nothing inherently wrong with the kit, but it's like Range Rover only offering the Vogue at full price but with cloth seats and wind down windows and no option for leather or electrics. You shouldn't have to just accept that level of kit at that price point.


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## gavroche (26 May 2021)

Well, in the end I am not going to spend £1500 but £995 on a Trek al3 disc , ( unless the price goes up again when they get new stock ) so happy with that.


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## Dave Davenport (26 May 2021)

Unless you particularly want a 'gravel' style bike, had you considered SLR 8.9 Carbon Road Bike 2021 (boardmanbikes.com) only another £100 and quite an upgrade in spec and reduction in weight.


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## Phaeton (26 May 2021)

gavroche said:


> Well, in the end I am not going to spend £1500 but £995 on a Trek al3 disc , ( unless the price goes up again when they get new stock ) so happy with that.


To me £995 is still an expensive bike, if it's what you want & it does what you want go for it,


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## Saluki (26 May 2021)

All my bikes must be a bit shoot then. Ignore the ‘experts’, they are trying to sell bikes.
Test ride bikes in your budget range, find the one you like best and buy that. That is my ‘expert’ opinion.

My favourite was £1200 (entry level?) steel gravel bike, running full Sora. It’s comfy, goes anywhere, smooth shifting and I can leave my mate, on his £4.2k ebike, in the weeds. Even more so on my £350 steel roadie (second hand Mercian).

Advice from so called experts can be confusing. I ignored most of it


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## gavroche (26 May 2021)

Dave Davenport said:


> Unless you particularly want a 'gravel' style bike, had you considered SLR 8.9 Carbon Road Bike 2021 (boardmanbikes.com) only another £100 and quite an upgrade in spec and reduction in weight.


That looks like a very good bike but it fails to attract me for two reasons:
- no disc brakes.
- 11-30 cassette no good to me, I need at least 11-32 or better, 11-34.
Thanks for drawing my attention though.


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## vickster (26 May 2021)

Why do you want disc brakes? You have said many times that you don’t ride in wet/winter?
that bike has Tektro mechanicals as there’s no Sora hydraulic, they won’t be much better in the dry than decent rim brakes ultimately. I guess the experts have convinced you otherwise 
but it’s your cash


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## gavroche (26 May 2021)

vickster said:


> Why do you want disc brakes? You have said many times that you don’t ride in wet/winter?
> that bike has Tektro mechanicals as there’s no Sora hydraulic, they won’t be much better in the dry than decent rim brakes ultimately. I guess the experts have convinced you otherwise
> but it’s your cash


There are some steep descents round here and I find the disc brakes on my Roubaix are much sharper than my other two bikes with caliper brakes.
As far as the experts are concerned, they are in no way influencing my choice, I just like the look of the Treck.


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## vickster (26 May 2021)

What is the Trek giving you that a Roubaix isn’t? Other than being new?


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## gavroche (26 May 2021)

vickster said:


> What is the Trek giving you that a Roubaix isn’t? Other than being new?


Nothing, I just fancy a new bike.


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## proletaratOne (27 May 2021)

vickster said:


> Why do you want disc brakes? You have said many times that you don’t ride in wet/winter?
> that bike has Tektro mechanicals as there’s no Sora hydraulic, they won’t be much better in the dry than decent rim brakes ultimately. I guess the experts have convinced you otherwise
> but it’s your cash


Cause rim brakes suck. Can’t run fat tires, no good on gravel, or wet , or big decents... thing of the past dude... live in the now

oh wait


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## Lovacott (27 May 2021)

gavroche said:


> . Well, the bike I am interested in is the Trek al3 with disc brakes at £995. I like the look of it and answers all my needs. As soon as they have one in stock in my Lbs , I will go and have a proper look at it, with my wife's blessings too.


That looks (and reads) to be a very nice bit of kit. 

All of the parts are DIY replaceable without too much trouble and unless you plan on hurtling down a muddy mountain trail or entering the TDF, it will do everything you want it to do.

Why spend more?


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## Lovacott (27 May 2021)

proletaratOne said:


> Cause rim brakes suck. Can’t run fat tires, no good on gravel, or wet , or big decents... thing of the past dude... live in the now


Discs on MTB's and Hybrids, rims on road bikes.

Horses for courses.


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## vickster (27 May 2021)

proletaratOne said:


> Cause rim brakes suck. Can’t run fat tires, no good on gravel, or wet , or big decents... thing of the past dude... live in the now
> 
> oh wait
> View attachment 590774
> ...


Dude 
Not really sure what your images are saying...I can’t see their brakes and have no interest in pro cycling


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## Phaeton (27 May 2021)

Lovacott said:


> Discs on MTB's and Hybrids, rims on road bikes.


It's a whole other discussion, but disc brakes are superior to rim brakes, but some people put form over function,


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## Phaeton (27 May 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> It was a parody.


Unfortunately like a good joke if it has to be explained...........


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## PaulSB (27 May 2021)

proletaratOne said:


> Can I ask why
> I’m kinda new to cycling. Like started last year. And started racing this year
> 
> A few guys have cervelos... they look pretty and these guys seem to do fine
> ...


I don't know why but from time to time critical remarks are made. From memory it revolves around using cheap Chinese frames and poor bottom brackets. I don't really take much notice.

Mine is superb and I know other happy Cervelo riders. In the real world I don't know anyone who criticises bikes to any great extent.

Overall I feel if bikes are in some way a rip off the manufacturers would have been found out by now.


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## Drago (27 May 2021)

They have been found out, but a sufficient number of buyers can't see beyond the brand name.

Great bikes, but no better than mechanically comparable machines, from manufacturers who are more open about the source of their frames/bikes, who don't bang on about "heritage" (althouth Cervelo, being a fairly young brand, aren't the worst for this) while supplying far eastern bikes with no heritage, and then charging a premium for the privilege. 

If that floats your boat, go for it. Its your money and if thats what makes you happy then it was worth every penny, but don't try and pretend that their business model isn't based upon squeezing extra coin from their customers for nothing tangible in return. 

There is nothing physically wrong, they are very decent bikes, but they have still been 'found out' by buyers buying equally fine machinery elsewhere for significantly less outlay . You have chosen to overlook that for no other reason than you happen to own one. Once again, thats absolutely fine, but don't pretend that makes them superior in some way.


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## Lovacott (27 May 2021)

PaulSB said:


> Overall I feel if bikes are in some way a rip off the manufacturers would have been found out by now.


There are some very good firms in China,Cambodia etc. who turn out consistently good quality product. Their factories are modern, hi-tech and their processes are well thought out. 

Their labour costs are low which creates a handsome proft and they are producing boxes and boxes of identical bikes copied from an engineered prototype/template.

Now just imagine if one of those identical bikes failed and killed the rider and that fault was found to be endemic in all bikes of that model?

The UK Vendor would be crucified in the press for selling cheap dodgy bikes which would destroy its reputation amongst the great unwashed as the leading UK bike specialist.

To try and cover some of its disastrous losses, the UK Vendor would instigate a recall to rectify the fault and would activate an indemnity clause against the manufacture.

So, if a manufacturer routinely used cheap materials, bad factory processes and slack quality control, they would indeed have been found out by now.


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## Jon George (28 May 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> Probably further up the thread


I checked! Honest!


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## Milkfloat (28 May 2021)

Lovacott said:


> There are some very good firms in China,Cambodia etc. who turn out consistently good quality product. Their factories are modern, hi-tech and their processes are well thought out.
> 
> Their labour costs are low which creates a handsome proft and they are producing boxes and boxes of identical bikes copied from an engineered prototype/template.
> 
> ...


Not if the ordering company specified crap in the first place.


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## proletaratOne (28 May 2021)

Phaeton said:


> Unfortunately like a good joke if it has to be explained...........


I may have missed the mark

I thought I was being oh so clever.

I’ll probably keep my day job


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## Ming the Merciless (28 May 2021)

All this talk about rim brakes, 19 century that way ———>


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## Lovacott (28 May 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> All this talk about rim brakes, 19 century that way ———>


Used brake discs make brilliant Throwing Stars.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 May 2021)

Lovacott said:


> Used brake discs make brilliant Throwing Stars.
> 
> View attachment 590998



If only you had an actual photo of an old rotor 😂


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## RoadRider400 (28 May 2021)

Not at all.

When I got my first roadbike I randomly clicked around on ebay offerings and did my own researched based on manufacturers specs. I do not feel a so called expect would have given me any useful information, but may have caused me to spend twice as much money.

FWIW I still have the bike and it does everything I need a bike to do.


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## Lovacott (28 May 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> If only you had an actual photo of an old rotor 😂


That would be incriminating.


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## Lovacott (28 May 2021)

RoadRider400 said:


> When I got my first roadbike I randomly clicked around on ebay offerings and did my own researched based on manufacturers specs. I do not feel a so called expect would have given me any useful information, but may have caused me to spend twice as much money.


Nobody is going to be an expert on your reasons for riding a bike and the exact roads you ride on.

My old steel MTB would be useless in the TDF but a £50,000 TDF road bike wouldn't last five minutes on my commute.


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## gavroche (29 May 2021)

Lovacott said:


> Nobody is going to be an expert on your reasons for riding a bike and the exact roads you ride on.
> 
> My old steel MTB would be useless in the TDF but a £50,000 TDF road bike wouldn't last five minutes on my commute.


I have never heard of a £50000 TdF bike.


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## Lovacott (30 May 2021)

gavroche said:


> I have never heard of a £50000 TdF bike.


Sorry.

I meant $500k


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## tyred (30 May 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> All this talk about rim brakes, 19 century that way ———>


Quite right, back-pedal brakes are the way to go.


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## Punkawallah (31 May 2021)

‘An expert is someone who knows more & more about less & less.’
If their speciality is ‘winning’, they may be right when they say ‘you must spend x’. They are useful for questions on specifics, but not so much on general questions. For that, get as many opinions as you can, and add salt to taste.


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## Punkawallah (1 Jun 2021)

Yup. The guy on the towpath does not have to win a Tour, so the effusive praise for the ‘superbike’ by the expert tells him nothing he needs to know - unless he seriously ups his game :-)
Obviously the assumption that ‘all experts are stupid’ would be an error, but our towpath guy is entitled to an opinion, and if it gets him through the day then it would be churlish to deny him it.

Don’t know anything about ‘hack journos’, but have long thought these magazines should come with a ‘salt & shake’ blue packet. At least have reviews of the same product from two different people.

I’d read an article with reviews of a superbike by our towpath guy, and of his hack by the expert :-)


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## teeonethousand (12 Jun 2021)

I find it’s the same with all things....strangers opinions are worthless against your own preferences and direct experience. Cost does not equal value when value is whatever suits just you.


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