# Vintage Reynolds 531 frame



## al-fresco (5 Sep 2011)

Courtesy of Pubrunner I have a 1951/52 vintage 23" Sun (Super Vitesse we think) frame and forks in Reynolds 531 tubing. It's shabby and pitted and will definitely need shot blasting and painting. But it's beautifully light and would make a great project (but not for me because I'm only 5'7"). We'd like it to go to a good home. So it's free to anybody that can collect it from North West Shropshire.


----------



## gb155 (5 Sep 2011)

I'd SOOOOOOOOOOO Love a project like this

Sadly you are too far, tho I'd be MORE than happy to pay postage if you were so inclined ?


----------



## smokeysmoo (5 Sep 2011)

Would you not consider posting it? Royal Mail Standard Parcels would be about £12, and a courier a little cheaper at about a tenner.

I'd be happy to send you £15 by PayPal gift, (no fees), if you'd be kind enough to do this.

Go on, you know you want to......................................................................PLEASE


----------



## gb155 (5 Sep 2011)

smokeysmoo said:


> Would you not consider posting it? Royal Mail Standard Parcels would be about £12, and a courier a little cheaper at about a tenner.
> 
> I'd be happy to send you £15 by PayPal gift, (no fees), if you'd be kind enough to do this.
> 
> Go on, you know you want to......................................................................PLEASE




Oi - if the very very kind member will post, then I beat ya to it , op, I am of course happy to pay the costs plus a little extra for your time


----------



## smokeysmoo (5 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> Oi - if the very very kind member will post, then I beat ya to it , op, I am of course happy to pay the costs plus a little extra for your time


Sorry Gaz, I wasn't trying to muscle in, (well maybe a little  ). Of course if the exceptionally kind OP would be so amazingly accommodating as to post the amazing sounding frame, then you Sir do of course have first dibs 


However, if you then decide it's too much like hard work, (it's not like buying a shiny new CCF you know ), then may I suggest you PM me before doing anything else.


----------



## al-fresco (5 Sep 2011)

OK - no fighting! I do pop up to Manchester occasionally (sometimes I even cycle there but not carrying a spare frame!) so I'll look into postage or see if we can arrange to meet somewhere - how do you go about packaging something like a frame?


----------



## smokeysmoo (5 Sep 2011)

al-fresco said:


> how do you go about packaging something like a frame?


Just ask your LBS for a frame box, simples  I've never met one yet that won't give you one, (unless they haven't got one!).

Alternatively any old box will do, supermarkets usually have some big one, bit of old bubble wrap around the dropouts and Robert's your Dad's Brother 

Just try to 'chock' between the rear dropouts in case it gets squashed, a piece of wood works just fine


----------



## al-fresco (5 Sep 2011)

OK I'll see if I can blag a box. Gaz has first dibs as long as he undertakes to find a suitable home for it if he decides not to go ahead with the project.


----------



## gb155 (5 Sep 2011)

al-fresco said:


> OK I'll see if I can blag a box. Gaz has first dibs as long as he undertakes to find a suitable home for it if he decides not to go ahead with the project.



MANY THANKS

The project WILL go ahead mate, I have a box full of "Off casts" just waiting for a frame :0)


----------



## gb155 (5 Sep 2011)

smokeysmoo said:


> Sorry Gaz, I wasn't trying to muscle in, (well maybe a little  ). Of course if the exceptionally kind OP would be so amazingly accommodating as to post the amazing sounding frame, then you Sir do of course have first dibs
> 
> 
> *However, if you then decide it's too much like hard work, (it's not like buying a shiny new CCF you know ), then may I suggest you PM me before doing anything else.
> *



Of course mate, you have yourself a deal !


----------



## smokeysmoo (5 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> Of course mate, you have yourself a deal !



Spot on, cheers Buddy


----------



## ColinJ (6 Sep 2011)

smokeysmoo said:


> Just try to 'chock' between the rear dropouts in case it gets squashed, a piece of wood works just fine


Do the fork dropouts too. Go to your LBS and ask for a cardboard bike box and a pair of the plastic spacer 'chocks' that are fitted to protect new bikes when they are delivered. Whenever I've asked, my LBS has been happy to oblige - less stuff for them to dispose of!


----------



## Crackle (6 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> MANY THANKS
> 
> The project WILL go ahead mate, I have a box full of "Off casts" just waiting for a frame :0)




Don't forget, that age of frame will have different spacing for the dropouts at the rear and need a quill stem or a quill Ahead adaptor. I had a 1950's Rotrax frame, 531, lovely ride. Look up cold setting dropouts if you don't already know all about it.


----------



## gb155 (6 Sep 2011)

Crackle said:


> Don't forget, that age of frame will have different spacing for the dropouts at the rear and need a quill stem or a quill Ahead adaptor. I had a 1950's Rotrax frame, 531, lovely ride. Look up cold setting dropouts if you don't already know all about it.



Thanks for that, I'm uber excited about this next project


----------



## smokeysmoo (6 Sep 2011)

Here you go Gaz, (you lucky frigger ) AASHTA, this tells you about spacing. I've just had to re-space my Peugeot winter build. It's dead simple to do tbh, just one of those softly, softly type of jobs.


----------



## gb155 (6 Sep 2011)

smokeysmoo said:


> Here you go Gaz, (you lucky frigger ) AASHTA, this tells you about spacing. I've just had to re-space my Peugeot winter build. It's dead simple to do tbh, just one of those softly, softly type of jobs.



Its ironic I was reading that the other day, must have been the gods telling me something


----------



## Baggy (6 Sep 2011)

If it's got 120mm spacing you might want to think about getting the framebuilder to re-set the stays when it's re-painted, rather than do it yourself.


----------



## pubrunner (9 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> I'd SOOOOOOOOOOO Love a project like this



As a previous owner of this frame, it would be great to see a pic or two of the finished article.

If it's really nice, you might be able to sell it back to me - at a vastly inflated price !  

I hope that you do something with it . . . . . . . I've too many other bikes/frames - I won 'brownie points' by taking it to Al-Fresco's. I'm well-pleased that it is going on to a good home . . . . . . . it is a good lightweight steel frame.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (9 Sep 2011)

Baggy said:


> If it's got 120mm spacing you might want to think about getting the framebuilder to re-set the stays when it's re-painted, rather than do it yourself.



I used the Sheldon method on one of my frames, it works fine if you're careful. 
I had to use 47 x 97mm though as you can't get 2 x 4" any more!


----------



## PpPete (9 Sep 2011)

threebikesmcginty said:


> I used the Sheldon method on one of my frames, it works fine if you're careful.
> *I had to use 47 x 97mm though as you can't get 2 x 4" any more! *



Disgraceful !

I have to say that it's very easy to overdo it with Sheldon's method. 

I now have a length of M10 threaded rod, nuts, and some monster washers*. Just wind it out slowly, and keep measuring. You can also use a piece of string around the head tube and tied to the rear drop-outs to check that it's moving symmetrically. (Revert to Sheldon's method if one stay isn't moving)

The springiness of 531 is such that you often have to go to beyond 140mm so that the spring-back takes it to 130 mm

* same can be used as a headset press.


----------



## pubrunner (9 Sep 2011)

PpPete said:


> Disgraceful !
> 
> I have to say that it's very easy to overdo it with Sheldon's method.
> 
> ...



That reminds me; the frame takes a headclip headset. The headset is potentially a hiccup, but be patient, either a full set will turn up or I believe you can use the cupped bearings ( again if you can get them ) with normal spacers and headset lock nuts. This was fairly common on frames of that period - the frame is *Sun Super Vitesse*. 

It is a plain 531 frame with Sun's own cutaway lugs and 70 degree seat angle, 71 degree head angle. The 'S' in the serial number indicates *1951/2*. A bit older than you, Gaz.


----------



## gb155 (10 Sep 2011)

pubrunner said:


> That reminds me; the frame takes a headclip headset. The headset is potentially a hiccup, but be patient, either a full set will turn up or I believe you can use the cupped bearings ( again if you can get them ) with normal spacers and headset lock nuts. This was fairly common on frames of that period - the frame is Sun Super Vitesse.
> 
> It is a plain 531 frame with Sun's own cutaway lugs and 70 degree seat angle, 71 degree head angle. The 'S' in the serial number indicates 1951/2. A bit older than you, Gaz.




It's almost double my age 

Can't wait to get it yo recapture it's former glory - it's not gonna be a quick project ala the carbon build but it's gonna be awesome and I'll post piccys ( yes Gaz, big piccys )


----------



## stephec (10 Sep 2011)

Whereabouts in Shropshire are you?

I'm working in Telford on Thursday so could possibly pick it up.


Gaz, remember me, Altura race cape? I could drop it of at your office sometime.


----------



## smokeysmoo (10 Sep 2011)

+1 for PpPete's threaded rod method, gives total control in how far you go. Don't forget to go a bit past to allow for spring back, maybe 5mm.

I used this method to re-space the Peugeot frame I've just built into my winter bike. Take your time and keep measuring and you can't 7uck it up really, especially with a steel frame, I had to be more careful as I my frame is alu, so I made sure to clamp the bridges and take it slow


----------



## gb155 (12 Sep 2011)

stephec said:


> Whereabouts in Shropshire are you?
> 
> I'm working in Telford on Thursday so could possibly pick it up.
> 
> ...




You sir are too kind of a gent


----------



## pubrunner (12 Sep 2011)

stephec said:


> *Whereabouts in Shropshire* are you?
> 
> I'm working in Telford on Thursday so could possibly pick it up.



Al-Fresco (who currently has the frame) lives in North Shropshire; inbetween Chirk & Oswestry. He lives only about 1.5 miles off the A5.

I'll pm him to ensure that he reads this thread in full.


----------



## gb155 (12 Sep 2011)

pubrunner said:


> Al-Fresco (who currently has the frame) lives in North Shropshire; inbetween Chirk & Oswestry. He lives only about 1.5 miles off the A5.
> 
> I'll pm him to ensure that he reads this thread in full.



I appreciate that


----------



## al-fresco (12 Sep 2011)

I know, I know! (I'm still going to Wrexham to get a box from Alf Jones though.)


----------



## gb155 (12 Sep 2011)

al-fresco said:


> I know, I know! (I'm still going to Wrexham to get a box from Alf Jones though.)




Check post #23


----------



## al-fresco (12 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> Check post #23



Yeah but in case Stephec isn't coming past here or doesn't fancy an 80 mile round trip from Telford I'm *still* getting a box!


----------



## gb155 (12 Sep 2011)

al-fresco said:


> Yeah but in case Stephec isn't coming past here or doesn't fancy an 80 mile round trip from Telford I'm still getting a box!



My geography is piss poor


----------



## stephec (12 Sep 2011)

I'm pretty certain I can do it, should know for definate by Tuesday night Wednesday morning at the latest, but it's looking good for now.

Chirk's no problem, I can go home/to Telford up the A5.

I'll pm all concerned nearer the time to arrange it.


----------



## al-fresco (12 Sep 2011)

stephec said:


> Chirk's no problem, I can go home/to Telford up the A5.



Ahhh if you're going A5/A483 you'd be passing within a mile of my house so that would be great. I managed to get a box but it's huge - probably best not to put the frame in it!


----------



## stephec (14 Sep 2011)

My customer has changed his mind, he doesn't want me there until Friday. 

I've got to call in Ellesmere first thing though, so I should be at the McDonalds roundabout near Chirk around 08:00 on Friday, is that a good time to collect?


----------



## al-fresco (14 Sep 2011)

stephec said:


> My customer has changed his mind, he doesn't want me there until Friday.
> 
> I've got to call in Ellesmere first thing though, so I should be at the McDonalds roundabout near Chirk around 08:00 on Friday, is that a good time to collect?



PM sent.


----------



## smokeysmoo (15 Sep 2011)

Don't forget me Gaz if you decide you've bitten off too much when the frame arrives


----------



## gb155 (16 Sep 2011)

smokeysmoo said:


> Don't forget me Gaz if you decide you've bitten off too much when the frame arrives




Lol

I can't thank these 2 enough for all they are doing

Ps smokey - what's with the name change ?


----------



## al-fresco (16 Sep 2011)

Colin collected the frame at 8.15 this morning. Right - time to start my own new project!


----------



## gb155 (16 Sep 2011)

al-fresco said:


> Colin collected the frame at 8.15 this morning. Right - time to start my own new project!



What a little star he is and THANK YOU too !


----------



## al-fresco (16 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> What a little star he is and THANK YOU too !



Thank Pubrunner - he started it!


(Come to think of it - thank Mrs Pubrunner - I bet she made him get rid of it!)


----------



## stephec (16 Sep 2011)

Gaz, do you still work near the velodrome?

I can't find your number, if you pm me we can sort out me dropping it off.



Cheers, Colin


----------



## gb155 (20 Sep 2011)

A huge huge thanks to all involved in this


----------



## pubrunner (23 Sep 2011)

al-fresco said:


> Thank Pubrunner - he started it!
> 
> (Come to think of it - thank Mrs Pubrunner - I bet she *made* him get rid of it!)



You win your bet ! 

To her . . . . it was "old tat"

To me . . . . 'treasure' to be restored at some time in the future; realistically - never. But I still didn't want to part with it. 

Mind you, plans are afoot to acquire a tandem; I wonder what she'll say about that ! Actually, I already know.  

I just tell her that she can't wear all her 30+ pairs of shoes at once. She told me that most women actually have more pairs of shoes than that.

Come to think of it, she's probably spent more on shoes than I have on bikes - I'm deffo getting a tandem then ! 

Hopefully, Gaz will give us a progress report on the frame; it would be great to see the finished article - I bet it'll ride really nicely.


----------



## gb155 (24 Sep 2011)

pubrunner said:


> You win your bet !
> 
> To her . . . . it was "old tat"
> 
> ...





I've been struck down with man-flu - typical as I'm off this week too

Intended to strip the frame down this weekend - fail !!!!!

The first question I need to ask myself is do I go SS/fixie ?


----------



## pubrunner (25 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> The first question I need to ask myself is do I go SS/fixie ?



It wouldn't be my choice - too many hills around here . . . . . . . why limit yourself ?

Mind you, it'd make it easier to get the frame back on the road - which is the most important thing imo.


----------



## gb155 (26 Sep 2011)

pubrunner said:


> It wouldn't be my choice - too many hills around here . . . . . . . why limit yourself ?
> 
> Mind you, it'd make it easier to get the frame back on the road - which is the most important thing imo.




I'll be honest that was my first thought - getting it back up and running after stripping and spraying it - plus I do enjoy my current SS quite a lot and suspect this would actually ride much better !


----------



## Manny (6 Oct 2012)

Due to suddenly being reminded of my first ever two wheeled cycle I came across this thread. It was the Sun Super Vitesse which was originally made in a very dark blue with fully chromed forks and I don't think you have one as it was not built with 531 tubing. If my memory is good enough I got mine in 1948. The only Sun cycles at that time built with 531 (I think) were the variations of the Sun Wasps.


----------



## pubrunner (7 Oct 2012)

Manny said:


> Due to suddenly being reminded of my first ever two wheeled cycle I came across this thread. It was the Sun Super Vitesse which was originally made in a very dark blue with fully chromed forks and I don't think you have one as it was not built with 531 tubing. If my memory is good enough I got mine in 1948. The only Sun cycles at that time built with 531 (I think) were the variations of the Sun Wasps.


 
Hi Manny,

The Sun Super Vitesse *is* a *plain* gauge* 531* frame with Sun's own cutaway lugs and 70 degree seat angle & 71 degree head angle. In the Sun Catalogue, it sat under the Manx TT, Wasp, and Manxman. 

The serial number on this frame 'S' indicates 1951/2, and within a 1951 Sun Catalogue is the Super Vitesse. 

In 1951, a Sun Wasp was made from Reynolds* DB 531* tubing and would have cost £30 & 2 shillings; by comparison, the Super Vitesse cost £20 & 11 shillings.

In 1951, the racing style bikes that Sun produced were : Sun Manx TT, Sun Wasp Massed Start, Sun Wasp, Sun Manxman, Sun Super Vitesse, Sun Mist, Sun Club. 

Did you race or time trial on your bike ?


----------

