# What do you want from a cafe?



## Sunny Portrush (6 Sep 2016)

My friend has opened a cafe and is looking to entice in some of the local cyclists. He already stocks some little bits and pieces ie spare tubes, a track pump, energy bars and a set of Allen keys.

What do you look for in a cafe bar the obvious of food and drink, what else could he do to build his cycling clientele?

Cheers


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## Venod (6 Sep 2016)

Secure bike parking, of course it depends on how much room he has, some of the best cafes I know let you take your bike inside.


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## Tim Hall (6 Sep 2016)

LMNH, in London's famous London, has locks for customers to use.


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## MontyVeda (6 Sep 2016)

ashtrays.


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## Sunny Portrush (6 Sep 2016)

MontyVeda said:


> ashtrays.



I kid you not but a couple of years ago, I saw the usual pack of Sunday cyclists pass on the other side of the road and the boy at the back had a fag in his mouth!


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## fossyant (6 Sep 2016)

Coffee and cake ! Lots of it.


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## Dave7 (6 Sep 2016)

Maybe some photo copied....enlarged local maps. I like to wander around areas and normal maps dont show these back lanes. 
I recently followed signs for a cyclist friendly cafe and got totally disoriented.


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## Markymark (6 Sep 2016)

When I'm a cyclist I want the same as when I'm not a cyclist. Good food and good service. My transport getting there tends to be irrelevant.


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## Pale Rider (6 Sep 2016)

Cyclists are not known to be big spenders, so at least a handful of things on the menu need to be cheap, or at least appear good value.

Decent sized cups of tea and coffee is a good example, it really only comes down to a bit more hot water but gives the impression of generous portions.


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## MontyVeda (6 Sep 2016)

Sunny Portrush said:


> I kid you not but a couple of years ago, I saw the usual pack of Sunday cyclists pass on the other side of the road and the boy at the back had a fag in his mouth!


I often smoke and cycle. I'm currently working on an electric windproof lighter powered by dynamo.


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## ianrauk (6 Sep 2016)

Real ketchup and brown sauce. None of that catering crap.


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## Dayvo (6 Sep 2016)

Cycling memorabilia: retro jerseys, posters, maps, old bikes on the wall, a selection of magazines and books to browse through or sell.

Plus a good variety of cake, esp. fruit cake.


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## smutchin (6 Sep 2016)

I called into my local cyclist-friendly pub earlier this afternoon to discover that they now offer massages!

The choice of facilities would largely be dependent on how the chap sees his cafe - is it simply a coffee-and-cake stop for cyclists to call in mid-ride, or is it a destination in its own right? If the latter, he'll want to consider things like a big screen and a subscription to Eurosport to show the big races. LMNH is a good model to look at, as is G!ro in Esher, to name a couple of well-known ones off the top of my head, and indeed my aforementioned local, the Freewheel in Graveney - http://www.thefreewheel.pub/


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## NorthernDave (6 Sep 2016)

Formica tables, plastic chairs, unbranded ketchup in those plastic tomato shaped bottles, unmatched cutlery and chipped plates. Oh hang on, that's where I go now! 

Seriously though, I think he's got the basics covered and can add to them as he gets feedback or specific requests.
The tricky bit will be managing speed of service when a club ride or two turn up at the same time. People are only so patient.


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## bruce1530 (6 Sep 2016)

Good coffee
Somewhere secure to leave the bike
Toilets


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## smutchin (6 Sep 2016)

bruce1530 said:


> Toilets



The grotty old bikers' caff where my club stops every week used to have two working WCs, now it only has one - and I'm not sure that one has much life left in it (unless you count the bacteria).


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## Ihatehills (6 Sep 2016)

Somewhere decent to lock up your bike, probably already got that covered, but for me its one of the main enticements to stop, if I've got to faff about finding a railing or something I generally won't bother. Oh and bacon and egg sarnies of course


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## Tim Hall (6 Sep 2016)

ianrauk said:


> Real ketchup and brown sauce. None of that catering crap.


Baked beans in ramekins.


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## vickster (6 Sep 2016)

Top notch pain(s) aux raisins...and decent coffee to go with...nothing else really matters in life


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## Dayvo (6 Sep 2016)

vickster said:


> Top notch pain(s) aux raisins...and decent coffee to go with...nothing else really matters in life



Oh, I'm not so sure!


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## vickster (6 Sep 2016)

Dayvo said:


> Oh, I'm not so sure!


That's a bloke's bog though, seat's up


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## Dayvo (6 Sep 2016)

vickster said:


> That's a bloke's bog though, seat's up




You threw down the gauntlet...


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## vickster (6 Sep 2016)

And that's evidently in a house not a cafe


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## Dayvo (6 Sep 2016)

vickster said:


> And that's evidently in a house not a cafe


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## T4tomo (6 Sep 2016)

Consistent serving of hot and cold food, none of this after 2pm.we only serve cakes, if I want a bacon sarnie, then I want one regardlesss of time.


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## Diggs (6 Sep 2016)

Knowing the difference between an E-acute and an apostrophe?


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## Tail End Charlie (6 Sep 2016)

A hook on the back of the toilet doors, a simple thing but it makes the experience of using a toilet when wearing bib shorts so much better.


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## Sunny Portrush (6 Sep 2016)

Tail End Charlie said:


> A hook on the back of the toilet doors, a simple thing but it makes the experience of using a toilet when wearing bib shorts so much better.



You hang yourself from the hook, that is impressive!


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## cyberknight (6 Sep 2016)

On site bike mechanic who fixes your bike for a cuppa and a broom wagon in case you cant peddle home after the cake , bacon sarnies etc.


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## mark st1 (6 Sep 2016)

Beer.


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## SuperHans123 (6 Sep 2016)

Good quality tea and coffee, decent prices, no artisan crap that costs a grand for a sunflower seed, big cups/mugs (we're not in Italy) clean toilet/washroom, non-wonky tables genial host, consistent opening hours.


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## YahudaMoon (6 Sep 2016)

Drying room


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## NorthernDave (6 Sep 2016)

Tim Hall said:


> Baked beans in ramekins.



Nooooooooo! Beans must always be on the plate with the bacon, eggs, sausages, mushrooms, chopped tomatoes, hash browns and the fried slice. Ramekins are wrong on every level when it comes to breakfast.


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## Tin Pot (6 Sep 2016)

1. Floor surfaces that cater to spdsl shoes
2. Outside awning to shelter on arrival
3. Place for bikes visible from all seating
4. Drier for gloves etc
5. Contactless payments
6. Espresso, bierra moretti and Chianti
7. Pasteis, bacon ciabatta and cheese platter
8. Flirtatious waitress that hates cycling


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## ianrauk (6 Sep 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> 1. Floor surfaces that cater to spdsl shoes
> 2. Outside awning to shelter on arrival
> 3. Place for bikes visible from all seating
> 4. Drier for gloves etc
> ...




I can't take your suggestions seriously. Where is TEA!


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## Tin Pot (6 Sep 2016)

ianrauk said:


> I can't take your suggestions seriously. Where is TEA!



In the 'other' cafe that I'm not sitting in.


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## Pat "5mph" (6 Sep 2016)

YahudaMoon said:


> Drying room


Surely it would take a really long stop for your kit to dry?

Bike parking spaces where you can see them, clean warm toilets and a good espresso for me.


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## summerdays (6 Sep 2016)

Cake ... Most important, and it has to be homemade
Flapjacks
Coffee
Safe stands for locking your bike
Pump
A few basic tools
Outdoor seating


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## si_c (6 Sep 2016)

I think it's mostly been covered, pump and tools, spare inner tubes (but reasonably priced). Secure cycle parking, locks if he can provide them would be a bonus, people more likely to hang around if their bikes are secured with more than a cafe lock.

Then the obvious food stuff.

Only thing I might mention is that it may very well be worth his while speaking to local cycling clubs and seeing if he can persuade them to start/finish their rides at his cafe.


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## Hill Wimp (6 Sep 2016)

Haribo.

Decent coffee.

Freshly cooked Bacon/sausage for sandwiches.


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## summerdays (6 Sep 2016)

si_c said:


> Only thing I might mention is that it may very well be worth his while speaking to local cycling clubs and seeing if he can persuade them to start/finish their rides at his cafe.


There is a village hall that has done something similar... And basically once a month does coffee and cake for very good prices, and also caters for cycling events going through the area. They are raising funds for the village.


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## tyred (7 Sep 2016)

A pretty waitress


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## slowmotion (7 Sep 2016)

Decent coffee.
Don't care about any of the bloody cakes that you lot seen to obsess about.
Ham and cheese rolls in decent bread if it's the middle of the night.
Bacon and eggs, and a few beans and fried potatoes, but shove the sausages in the bin.
Any chance of Yellow Beer at about 9 am?


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## YahudaMoon (9 Sep 2016)

Hairdresser/barber


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## Rickshaw Phil (9 Sep 2016)

NorthernDave said:


> Nooooooooo! Beans must always be on the plate with the bacon, eggs, sausages, mushrooms, chopped tomatoes, hash browns and the fried slice. Ramekins are wrong on every level when it comes to breakfast.


 I'd prefer it if beans stayed in the tins where they belong.


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## NorthernDave (9 Sep 2016)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> I'd prefer it if beans stayed in the tins where they belong.


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## mustang1 (9 Sep 2016)

If I may make a non cycling suggestion, contrary to what you asked but these days when I go into a coffee shop and request a coffee, they ask me what type and I say "er regular coffee with milk" and they ask "an American?"

Like when TH did a regular coffee become an americano?


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## Sunny Portrush (9 Sep 2016)

mustang1 said:


> If I may make a non cycling suggestion, contrary to what you asked but these days when I go into a coffee shop and request a coffee, they ask me what type and I say "er regular coffee with milk" and they ask "an American?"
> 
> Like when TH did a regular coffee become an americano?



I ask for Nescafe


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## NorthernDave (9 Sep 2016)

mustang1 said:


> If I may make a non cycling suggestion, contrary to what you asked but these days when I go into a coffee shop and request a coffee, they ask me what type and I say "er regular coffee with milk" and they ask "an American?"
> 
> Like when TH did a regular coffee become an americano?



I'm fairly sure I've mentioned this before but a local coffee shop now lists Americano "with or without milk" on the menu due to the number of complaints they've had about "there's no milk in this coffee"....


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## Cuchilo (9 Sep 2016)

Free water tap outside . I dont stop at cafes while cycling but work has me eating out alot so would make a point of going back to spend if in the area .


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## G3CWI (9 Sep 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> Cyclists are not known to be big spenders



They are big spenders judging by the bikes round here.


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## NorthernDave (9 Sep 2016)

Sunny Portrush said:


> I ask for Nescafe



Douwe Egberts, please...


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## bikingdad90 (9 Sep 2016)

Roots Cafe in East Rounton have outside seating, Sheffield stands and two menus. One is like a quick bites breakfast and lunch menu and other is like a pub grub one with the option of afternoon tea with scones.

It is extremely popular with the clubs as they have an early bird special. They also fill bidons and do takeaway drinks. Most importantly for me they take card payments.


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## Elybazza61 (9 Sep 2016)

This will do me;


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## Ajax Bay (9 Sep 2016)

'Is that a carrot I see before me?"


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (9 Sep 2016)

Depends what mood I'm in. The white chocolate and raspberry roulade I had yesterday (accompanied by raspberry ripple ice-cream) was divine though..


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## Scoosh (9 Sep 2016)

Either a tap to fill bidons, the offer to fill them or a deep enough basin/sink to get a bottle under the cold water tap !


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## mustang1 (9 Sep 2016)

NorthernDave said:


> I'm fairly sure I've mentioned this before but a local coffee shop now lists Americano "with or without milk" on the menu due to the number of complaints they've had about "there's no milk in this coffee"....


What size you want...
Peanuts
Condo
Mardi
BlimeyThatsBig ?


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## EasyPeez (9 Sep 2016)

Complimentary communal chamois cream.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (10 Sep 2016)

EasyPeez said:


> Complimentary communal chamois cream.


Even the thought of this is somewhat repulsive. Reminds me of peanuts at a bar


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## EasyPeez (10 Sep 2016)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Even the thought of this is somewhat repulsive. Reminds me of peanuts at a bar


Well I guess it's not inconceivable that you might find the odd peanut in there, depending on who'd had a go before.


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## Dayvo (10 Sep 2016)

mustang1 said:


> Like when TH did a regular coffee become an americano?




And when did a NORMAL coffee become bloody 'regular?'


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## Fergs (10 Sep 2016)

The first normal coffee of the morning seems to keep me regular...


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## bruce1530 (10 Sep 2016)

Tall. Short. Grande. Venti. What a lot of nonsense.

There’s a (rather good) coffee shop in Glasgow which has a sign that says “We sell coffee in two sizes: Wee and Big"


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## Trickedem (11 Sep 2016)

NorthernDave said:


> Nooooooooo! Beans must always be on the plate with the bacon, eggs, sausages, mushrooms, chopped tomatoes, hash browns and the fried slice. Ramekins are wrong on every level when it comes to breakfast.


Bloody hash browns...Nooooooooooo Since when did these become part of a 'traditional breakfast' Give me a fried slice please, or possibly toast


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## jonny jeez (11 Sep 2016)

Markymark said:


> When I'm a cyclist I want the same as when I'm not a cyclist. Good food and good service. My transport getting there tends to be irrelevant.


Agreed, but you would need other stuff too right, like a place to confidently leave the bike, perhaps a track pump, water tap.


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## jonny jeez (11 Sep 2016)

An old friend of mine opened a coffee\cycle shop in Kent about 2 years ago.

2 years in and he is just about making profit. Cant tell you how much I respect him for what he has done...livin the dream!!

He has an outside and inside seating area, secure bike parking (important when there are warnings if bike theft at the ide hill cafe, which is remote)
All the stuff you would expect in a bike shop plus a workshop, which surprisingly makes more revenue than the rest. He offers discount for group arrivals (so long as they call in advance to give him some warning) proper coffee, proper bike advice and a huge wall map of the area that riders can write on with messages like"smooth tarmac", "big lump" or "fast section"


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## jonny jeez (11 Sep 2016)

mustang1 said:


> If I may make a non cycling suggestion, contrary to what you asked but these days when I go into a coffee shop and request a coffee, they ask me what type and I say "er regular coffee with milk" and they ask "an American?"
> 
> Like when TH did a regular coffee become an americano?


Around the same time that...thankfully...filter coffee stopped being the only choice.

If all you want is filter coffee, why are you in a coffee shop...your local indian restaurant can swill a cup of that stuff up for you in a jiffy.

Spin that thought around, if you went into a bike SHOP and all they sold was parts for a 1980 Rayleigh grifter, would you consider that to be a good shop.

Btw, what you really want to order is a white Americano (Americano is black coffee) and make sure they heat the milk and serve it in a separate container.

If it helps, for a couple of years unused to order a milky cappuccino from my local. Every time the barrista would repeat"latte", to which I would sigh and just say the order louder.

I had no idea what a latte was


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## ianrauk (11 Sep 2016)

jonny jeez said:


> An old friend of mine opened a coffee\cycle shop in Kent about 2 years ago.
> 
> 2 years in and he is just about making profit. Cant tell you how much I respect him for what he has done...livin the dream!!
> 
> ...


Don't be shy, spread the love.


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## ianrauk (11 Sep 2016)

Trickedem said:


> Bloody hash browns...Nooooooooooo Since when did these become part of a 'traditional breakfast' Give me a fried slice please, or possibly toast


No to the fried slice....rather the hash browns.


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## Markymark (11 Sep 2016)

jonny jeez said:


> Agreed, but you would need other stuff too right, like a place to confidently leave the bike, perhaps a track pump, water tap.


Kind of. I'd go to a place without those that had good food than one with with mediocre food. I've never struggled to lock my bike or fill a bottle at any cafe, pub or restaurant.


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## jonny jeez (11 Sep 2016)

ianrauk said:


> Don't be shy, spread the love.


Ha, Westerham.cyclery...ask for mark. (he also runs weaterham cycle club from there.)


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## jonny jeez (11 Sep 2016)

Markymark said:


> Kind of. I'd go to a place without those that had good food than one with with mediocre food. I've never struggled to lock my bike or fill a bottle at any cafe, pub or restaurant.


Good point...i should have said like rather than need


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## Dayvo (11 Sep 2016)

jonny jeez said:


> Btw, what you really want to order is a white Americano (Americano is black coffee) and make sure they heat the milk and serve it in a separate container.



Which is basically a 'flat white' which I came across for the first time in Australia a few years ago.


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## RoubaixCube (11 Sep 2016)

Dancing girls would be a nice touch


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## NorthernDave (11 Sep 2016)

Trickedem said:


> Bloody hash browns...Nooooooooooo Since when did these become part of a 'traditional breakfast' Give me a fried slice please, or possibly toast



Toast should be included, preferably served on a separate plate. I really grinds my gears when toast is extra on a "full" breakfast. 



ianrauk said:


> No to the fried slice....rather the hash browns.



The best places serve both. 
Although a traditional caff near work serves the full English with a sizeable portion of chips. And I've notice some places serving bubble & squeak (or something along those lines) on a breakfast.


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## Dayvo (11 Sep 2016)

NorthernDave said:


> And I've notice some places serving bubble & squeak (or something along those lines) on a breakfast.



Bubble & squeak with poached eggs and black pudding on toast/fried bread with lots of tea is the ultimate brekkie, IMO.


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## bruce1530 (11 Sep 2016)

Dayvo said:


> Which is basically a 'flat white'



... where I come from, a “flat white” is a plate.... :-)


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## 400bhp (11 Sep 2016)

Valet cycle parking, preferably carried out by a chimpanzee wearing a fez.


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## bruce1530 (11 Sep 2016)

But the most important thing is that it’s got to be in a place that I want to go, or will be passing reasonably close to.

I can think of one cafe that ticks most of the boxes. Decent food. Decent coffee. Reasonable prices. Bearable toilets. Practically on a national cycle route, and plenty of places to store bikes.

The only downside for me is that it’s only about 5 miles from home. I used to go there fairly regularly when I was just starting out cycling, but these days I don’t stop there, cos it’s too close to home.


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## T4tomo (11 Sep 2016)

Dayvo said:


> Which is basically a 'flat white' which I came across for the first time in Australia a few years ago.


A flat white is a latte but with less milk and hence proportionally more coffee.


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## Dayvo (11 Sep 2016)

Seems there's quite a lot of different opinions over what constitutes a flat white: http://www.coffeehunter.org/what-is-a-flat-white/

I go for the last opinion: _To me, a Flat White is an espresso with milk where the coffee does the talking. 
_
Whatever, enjoy your coffee. 
_
_


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## Elybazza61 (11 Sep 2016)

Ajax Bay said:


> 'Is that a carrot I see before me?"



Carrot shaped fondant;'twas a fine carrot cake.


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## Roxy641 (11 Sep 2016)

Will check it out if I'm passing that way. Found the website.
http://westerhamcyclery.co.uk/



jonny jeez said:


> Ha, Westerham.cyclery...ask for mark. (he also runs weaterham cycle club from there.)


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## smutchin (20 Sep 2016)

Dayvo said:


> Which is basically a 'flat white' which I came across for the first time in Australia a few years ago.



Nooo! A flat white is double espresso with milk, essentially a short, strong latte - ideal for those (like me) who find a latte too milky, but like a bit more milk than you get in a cortado.

Americanos are an abomination - the worst of all worlds, with neither the intense hit of an espresso nor the smoothness of a good filter coffee (or 'pourover' as they call it in the wankiest hipster joints).


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## PaulSecteur (20 Sep 2016)

Vegan options.


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## jarlrmai (20 Sep 2016)

a flat white sounds like what i'll be ordering from now on!


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## Biff600 (20 Sep 2016)

I've just come back from 18 days working in Amsterdam, and let me tell you, they don't just sell tea, coffee and cake in the cafes there !!


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## RoubaixCube (20 Sep 2016)

Biff600 said:


> I've just come back from 18 days working in Amsterdam, and let me tell you, they don't just sell tea, coffee and cake in the cafes there !!



Yeah, if only 'electric flapjacks' were legal.


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## Dayvo (20 Sep 2016)

Biff600 said:


> I've just come back from 18 days working in Amsterdam, and let me tell you, they don't just sell tea, coffee and cake in the cafes there !!



If you've been in the coffee shops in Amsterdam for 18 days, you won't have got much work done! 

I think your avatar sums it up pretty well.


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## steveindenmark (20 Sep 2016)

Sofas, cycling magazines and a boss who does not think that everyone is automatically doing the job correctly. 

I have been in all sorts of establishments where the service was truly awful. If you provide crap service, you will go out of business in no time. Provide good service and the word gets around and you will have a good business.


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## RoubaixCube (20 Sep 2016)

All in all, I tend to avoid UK coffee shops because of the mass of hipsters that tend to congregate inside them every time i walk past. with their fancy clothes, beards, disconnected or pompadour haircuts/styles & constantly glued to their iphone or imac or talking about what he or she did with so and so's boyfriend the other night and all sorts of bollocks as if they are the only people in the world who has problems that I neither care for or have the patience to listen to...

Thats why I always prefer coffee shops in the EU, there's people that go there to have coffee with friends or loved ones before carrying on their day. They sit together at a table and talk with each other, I dont speak EU so f**ked if i know what they are talking about but at least they arent a few miles apart with a mobile phones or handsfree kits hanging off their ears, sitting alone and having a conversation with somebody invisible...

Im sure my post will stir up some amount of hate on these forums.


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## united4ever (20 Sep 2016)

I like a flat white for £2.40 but sometimes it feels a bit of a luxury since I am on a tight budget. Pret a manger do a filter coffee for 99p which I am happy to sacrifice that intensity of an espresso for. If you could do a 99p filter coffee I would be more likely to come in for a hot drink. Not sure you would be making the same profit margin but if you get repeat custom then maybe so.


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## SteveF (20 Sep 2016)

Some homemade bread pudding would be nice... Not sure if I'd be able to get the bike moving again afterwards though..


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## smutchin (20 Sep 2016)

RoubaixCube said:


> Im sure my post will stir up some amount of hate on these forums.



Is that your intention?


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## Tim Hall (20 Sep 2016)

SteveF said:


> Some homemade bread pudding would be nice... Not sure if I'd be able to get the bike moving again afterwards though..


The Cabin, beloved of the FNRTTC, provides homemade bread pudding in lumps the size of a small brick.


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## bruce1530 (20 Sep 2016)

My pet coffee hate is overcharging for double espresso....

The Starbucks stall at my work charges 35p for an “extra shot”.
One cafe I often go to randomly charges between 40p and £1 extra, depending on who serves.
But the worst is one I visited last week - great coffee, but charged double for an extra shot. I wasn’t taking up two seats, I wasn’t using two cups.....


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## RoubaixCube (20 Sep 2016)

smutchin said:


> Is that your intention?



Never, but my opinions are quite often very 'unsavory' on these forums shall we say.


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## smutchin (20 Sep 2016)

RoubaixCube said:


> Never, but my opinions are quite often very 'unsavory' on these forums shall we say.



Good grief.


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## Accy cyclist (21 Sep 2016)

Dayvo said:


> You threw down the gauntlet...




Jeez, here i am having a Cornish pastie for my supper then i stumble across this!


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## Accy cyclist (21 Sep 2016)

A mirror in the bogs so i can look at myself(for ages)and see how i look in my latest jersey.


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## clid61 (21 Sep 2016)

A warm welcome , hot cup of marmite and a bacon baguette.


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## PoisonIvy (22 Sep 2016)

Multiple toilets. I haven't been cycling that long but literally every single cafe that I've stopped at on a cycling route has one toilet and a very long queue of Lycra clad people doing 'the dance'.


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