# Cyclist crushed by bus on Oxford Street



## CopperBrompton (14 Apr 2010)

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...fter-being-crushed-by-bus-in-oxford-street.do

I came past the scene of this shortly afterwards. Plenty of emergency services personnel on the scene, so no need to get involved, but it looked very nasty indeed - she'd been crushed between two buses.


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## ed_o_brain (14 Apr 2010)

Tragic/horrible accident. The Newspaper article suggests that the woman cyclist was hit by a bus when it swerved to avoid a car whose driver had done something erratic.

I don't like the way they are drawing attention to cyclists deaths - it's making cycling sound far more dangerous than it is. When a driver is seriously injured or killed, they don't draw attention to all the other recent driver deaths?

I'm not overlooking that there is a real problem here - our roads are generally far more dangerous than they should be (in my view because far too much lee way is given to drivers) but I don't see this type of journalism addressing that.

It's probably giving the layman the message that anyone who rides a bike is foolish.

My sympathies go to the young lady, I hope she pulls through.


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## Mark_Robson (14 Apr 2010)

Tragic


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## coshgirl (14 Apr 2010)

I'm afraid to report that the female cyclist has died RIP


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## CopperBrompton (14 Apr 2010)

Very sad news, but not a surprise, unfortunately. I was surprised to read she was extracted alive at all based on what I saw.


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## psmiffy (14 Apr 2010)

There was a pedestrian injured as well - I hope he pulls through and get well soon

My sympathies go the family of the young woman



ed_o_brain said:


> I don't like the way they are drawing attention to cyclists deaths - it's making cycling sound far more dangerous than it is. When a driver is seriously injured or killed, they don't draw attention to all the other recent driver deaths?



It is purely factual - It is not uncommon around here for the papers to comment when there has been a series of fatal accidents on the both the local roads or the M1/M6/M45 A14 etc


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## Crankarm (14 Apr 2010)

That's awful. RIP the lady cyclist. Hope the pedestrian pulls through and makes a full recovery.


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## lit (14 Apr 2010)

very sad for all concerned, RIP cyclist.


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## mr Mag00 (14 Apr 2010)

oh dear!


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## karan733 (14 Apr 2010)

Hope her family can find some comfort from somewhere


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## hackbike 666 (14 Apr 2010)

Awful. R.I.P


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## davidg (14 Apr 2010)

terrible stuff. by the sounds of the piece it really could have happened to anyone


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## downfader (14 Apr 2010)

Very, very sad. 
Another one. What the hell is going on in London? Seems an unnaturally high amount of cyclists getting off'd down there.


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## gaz (14 Apr 2010)

User3143 said:


> Generally speaking it's more to do with cyclists taking up cycling who have not really got a clue how to ride a bike in traffic and making stupid mistakes.
> 
> ref: BM's vid that he posted a couple of weeks ago.



In the case of oxford street... you should defiantly take the WHOLE lane.

RIP to the cyclist


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## ianrauk (14 Apr 2010)

Terrible news. Oxford Street is pretty mad with buses and taxes at any time of day.


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## downfader (14 Apr 2010)

User3143 said:


> Generally speaking it's more to do with cyclists taking up cycling who have not really got a clue how to ride a bike in traffic and making stupid mistakes.
> 
> ref: BM's vid that he posted a couple of weeks ago.



I wondered if that was an issue. I wonder if these chaparoned groups that went out during the rail strikes could be revitalised and come back and offer newbies some useful advice. 

Sometimes I feel like putting an advert across my pannier bag or rack with this website or something on it. 

I see plenty of newbies down here too, but again, we dont seem to have the levels of traffic they have in London. I do think its only right we experienced cyclists also set an example. After all some people are like sheep...

...mind you, sounds like this is all irrelevant given how the poor woman died.


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## Crankarm (14 Apr 2010)

User3143 said:


> Generally speaking it's more to do with cyclists taking up cycling who have not really got a clue how to ride a bike in traffic and making stupid mistakes.
> 
> ref: BM's vid that he posted a couple of weeks ago.



Isn't a little premature to start casting aspertions in what is quite clearly an awful and very distressing fatal collision?


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## Mad Doug Biker (14 Apr 2010)

How awful! did they get the identity of the car driver??

Seems as though she was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.


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## CopperBrompton (14 Apr 2010)

We don't even know at this stage if there _was_ a car driver involved. Certainly I didn't see any car anywhere near the scene, just two buses.


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## Mad Doug Biker (14 Apr 2010)

Ok.


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## magnatom (14 Apr 2010)

Very sad for the cyclist and her family, and fingers crossed the pedestrian pulls through.


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## downfader (14 Apr 2010)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> How awful! did they get the identity of the car driver??
> 
> Seems as though she was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.



If it is a First bus its likely there will be forward facing CCTV atleast. If there are several buses theres even more CCTV the Police could shift through. 

It seems unclear from the article when I read it who had witnessed this car, or if it was an explanation given by the driver.


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## upsidedown (14 Apr 2010)

Terrible tragedy, keep safe all.


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## hackbike 666 (14 Apr 2010)

I seem to remember a bus half demolishing Walthamstow McDonalds recently.


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## mr_cellophane (14 Apr 2010)

Terrible.
I was on a bus and a car pulled out in front if it. The driver just kept straight and braked fairly normally. He hit the car, but said it was better that he hit the car than throw the passengers all over the bus.


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## Debian (14 Apr 2010)

I have no certain knowledge of this incident other than what I've read but it looks as though the bus swerved into the pavement to avoid a car that pulled out in front of it. If so that seems pretty poor driving on the part of the bus driver, it would have been better to brake but carry on straight, hitting the car instead of whoever happens to be in the way on the pavement.

EDIT: Just seen Mr Cellophane's post above.


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## mcshroom (14 Apr 2010)

Tragic 

My sympathies and wishes to the cyclist's family, and I hope the pedestrian makes a full recovery.


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## hackbike 666 (14 Apr 2010)

Same sort of thing happened on London Bridge also and a cyclist and motorcyclist were involved.


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## CopperBrompton (15 Apr 2010)

I don't see how we can say the 'same thing' happened here as any other incident as it's too early to know how this tragedy occured.


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## slowmotion (15 Apr 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> I don't see how we can say the 'same thing' happened here as any other incident as it's too early to know how this tragedy occured.



Absolutely. It is a bit early to cast blame about for this tragedy. It is also somewhat distasteful.


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## psmiffy (15 Apr 2010)

+1 

There is absolutely no point in speculation - The Police will have CCTV footage from Oxford street and doubtless in the course of time the facts of the matter will emerge - but in the meantime I find it as slowmotion said - distasteful at the very least


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## CopperBrompton (15 Apr 2010)

Debian said:


> I have no certain knowledge of this incident other than what I've read but it looks as though the bus swerved into the pavement to avoid a car that pulled out in front of it.


That is definitely wrong as there was nowhere for a car to pull out from.

Let's wait for the results of the police investigation, eh?


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## slowmotion (15 Apr 2010)

Sod this armchair experts stuff.


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## Crankarm (15 Apr 2010)

slowmotion said:


> Absolutely. It is a bit early to cast blame about for this tragedy. It is also somewhat distasteful.



++1.


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## chap (15 Apr 2010)

That really is a shame, my thoughts go out to the family. Let's hope the Pedestrian pulls through in good health.

I do not have much experience of cycling Oxford Street, as I tend to avoid it, although the few times I have been there it does seem very cramped (both pedestrian and road) and potentially dangerous. 

Whilst we cannot, and should not, speculate, lets hope that people are held to account - if not only for improving the streets design so that such disasters will not happen there again.


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## hackbike 666 (15 Apr 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> I don't see how we can say the 'same thing' happened here as any other incident as it's too early to know how this tragedy occured.



Buses involved...London Bridge/Walthamstow and this one.

So I think you are all jumping to conclusions of what I actually meant.

You are all so quick to jump on someone aren't you all?



Ben Lovejoy said:


> I don't see how we can say the 'same thing' happened here as any other incident as it's too early to know how this tragedy occured.



I see you conveniently changed my wording.(I just noticed that)

Did I actually speculate what happened?



slowmotion said:


> Absolutely. It is a bit early to cast blame about for this tragedy. It is also somewhat distasteful.



Where did I cast blame?



slowmotion said:


> Sod this armchair experts stuff.



Sod this misunderstanding and not reading my post properly lark.


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## Crankarm (15 Apr 2010)

I confess to not reading properly HB . Didn't read far back enough. It is most unusual for you to initiate or participate in anything distasteful.


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## hackbike 666 (15 Apr 2010)

Crankarm said:


> I confess to not reading properly HB . Didn't read far back enough. It is most unusual for you to initiate or participate in anything distasteful.



No problem dude...I just got upset with a few comments but it has passed now.I really must be more careful with what I post...and no I haven't been drinking...apart from tea 

I agree it is distasteful to speculate about any accident and I try to refrain from doing it...I was stupidly comparing a few bus accidents.Hence the misunderstood comments I think.


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## CopperBrompton (15 Apr 2010)

hackbike 666 said:


> I see you conveniently changed my wording


Nobody has changed your wording: you claimed that the same sort of thing happened as on London Bridge when we have absolutely no idea yet what happened in this case.

_Edit: This post is also out of date now that hackbike has withdrawn his speculation_


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## slowmotion (15 Apr 2010)

hackbike 666, I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding. The only feeble point I wished to make on this thread is that we do not know the facts about how a woman died today, and it may be a bit premature to speculate. There may be similarities with other tragedies, but could I gently suggest that today is not the time to do so?

That is all.

Edit: This post is out of date!


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## hackbike 666 (15 Apr 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> Nobody has changed your wording: you claimed that the same *sort* of thing happened as on London Bridge when we have absolutely no idea yet what happened in this case.
> 
> _Edit: This post is also out of date now that hackbike has withdrawn his speculation_



Not quite...I just know a bus was involved in all three incidents...That was all I was posting about.

My excuse is my wording was wrong as I wasn't trying to speculate what happened in the accident just the fact that a bus was involved in all three accidents.


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## Arch (15 Apr 2010)

Debian said:


> I have no certain knowledge of this incident other than what I've read but it looks as though the bus swerved into the pavement to avoid a car that pulled out in front of it. *If so that seems pretty poor driving on the part of the bus driver, it would have been better to brake but carry on straight, hitting the car instead of whoever happens to be in the way on the pavement.*
> 
> EDIT: Just seen Mr Cellophane's post above.




Easy to say. To actually do that takes more presence of mind than I suspect many of us have - I suspect Mr Cellophane's example is probably a rare good one. Swerving, and jamming brakes on, is a pretty instinctive reaction.

I'd say that avoiding swerving was very good driving, and that swerving was 'ordinary', rather than very poor.


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## Funtboy (15 Apr 2010)

Tragic. Absolutely tragic.

I hope it alerts people to the dangers of loitering on the inside of buses and lorries. I'm not saying the girl was in the wrong here but the amount of times I see people squirming down the left side of massive vehicles is scary. 

That article also mentions another girl who was crushed by a lorry on a left hand turn. How many more times must this happen? 

They should do adverts about blind-spots and road positioning or something, make them quite shocking as well.

Anyway, RIP pet...


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## Konstantine (15 Apr 2010)

My heart sank when I heard about this. Poor poor girl and her poor family and friends. Just such a tragedy


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## Simba (15 Apr 2010)

RIP Lady cyclist and best wishes to the pedestrian.


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## StuartG (15 Apr 2010)

I agree with the comments we should not speculate on this case. 

However it does concern me that we seldom learn the lessons of past fatalities and other recorded collisions. The police usually do a thorough job recording, analysing and reconstructing the event for the benefit of the coroner's court and any subsequent prosecution. But never AFAIK published so that we may learn directly from these tragedies. The lessons they can teach would have the added poignancy of the consequence.

Otherwise history is doomed to repeat itself.


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## CopperBrompton (15 Apr 2010)

When I was involved with the IAM, we had illustrated talks from police crash investigators, where they would bring along slides of accident scenes and ask us to speculate about how the crashes happened. They would then talk us through what the investigations revealed to have actually happened. The results were often very surprising indeed.

One lesson that stuck with me very clearly: eye witness testimony, while superficially compelling, is often wildly inaccurate. One of them talked about two experiments the police carried out as a result of being puzzled by the phenomenon of how ordinary members of the public could apparently just make stuff up that they hadn't actually seen yet were convinced they had.

The simplest one was to drive the same car past the same witness at the same point on the same road three times. The witness was asked to estimate the speed of the car. The experiment was run many times with a huge range of members of the public as witnesses. Typical speed estimates for the three runs were 25mph, 35mph and 50mph.

In fact, the speed of the car was exactly 30mph all three times. The difference was the car was in 4th gear for the first run, 3rd for the second and 2nd for the final one. People heard very different engine notes and extrapolated the speed from that, despite the fact that they had a clear view of the car as it passed them.

The second experiment was more elaborate. The Met has a mock town centre in its training centre at Hendon (used for riot training, etc). Members of the public were recruited to take part in what they thought was a questionnaire. They were taken in small groups from one building, along this mock street to another building. En-route, a woman pushed a pram onto a zebra crossing. A car clipped the pram then drove to the T-junction and turned right.

The public thought this was a real crash, and were taken immediately into separate rooms to give statements. Despite the fact that they were interviewed literally within three minutes of the incident, their statements were wildly variable. The colour of the car was black or red or white or silver. The car had one or two or three or four occupants. The driver was young or old, and was white, black or asian. The car hit the pram or the mother. The baby sometimes went flying out of the pram (which was in fact empty). The car was doing 40, 50, 60 or 70mph (it was doing 25mph). The car turned left, right or went straight on at the bottom of the road (the latter impossible as it was a T-junction).

Since then, I don't take much notice of press reports of witness statements.


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## Arch (15 Apr 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> Since then, I don't take much notice of press reports of witness statements.



That's all interesting stuff. Of course, shock probably plays a part - I know I've done something in shock that was quite illogical - I forgot completely that I had a mobile phone in my pocket and went to the landline to dial 999 - which put me on the other side of the room from the casualty, when I should have been right by them, following instructions (as it happened, it was too late anyway). It's not quite the same as perception, but it shows that in moments of high stress, the brain can make seemingly daft errors.


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## CopperBrompton (15 Apr 2010)

Yep, shock plus adding 2+2 to get 5, plus a natural human desire to be helpful in such a situation and trying to plug the gaps with plausible explanations.


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## Arch (15 Apr 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> Yep, shock plus adding 2+2 to get 5, plus a natural human desire to be helpful in such a situation and trying to plug the gaps with plausible explanations.



Yeah, brains don't like gaps do they - hence persistence of vision illusions and so on....


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## CopperBrompton (15 Apr 2010)

Indeed


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## hackbike 666 (15 Apr 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> Nobody has changed your wording: you claimed that the same sort of thing happened as on London Bridge when we have absolutely no idea yet what happened in this case.
> 
> _*Edit: This post is also out of date now that hackbike has withdrawn his speculation*_



Are you really stupid?

I told you I was not speculating on the crash at all.

Just the fact the three bad accidents I have known about have involved buses.


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## CopperBrompton (15 Apr 2010)

"Same sort of thing" clearly says more than just "involving buses", but let's move on.


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## BentMikey (15 Apr 2010)

Ben is quite good at those sorts of sums.


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## hackbike 666 (15 Apr 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> "Same sort of thing" clearly says more than just "involving buses", but let's move on.



When I said "same sort of thing" it meant it was an accident involving a bus which was why I was using the London Bridge accident and Walthamstow McDonalds as examples of nasty accidents which could have had casualties more serious than what they were...At no time did I say what I thought it was apart from a bus being there. 

I think you just want to pick up on this in whatever way you can to be so self righteous and perfect while deliberately missing the point when I actually try and plead my innocence.Ever thought of joining the force or are you there already?


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## CopperBrompton (15 Apr 2010)

I don't think bickering is appropriate in this thread and won't be participating in it.


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## hackbike 666 (15 Apr 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> I don't think bickering is appropriate in this thread and won't be participating in it.



In other words you are wrong but too pig headed to admit it.


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## Rhythm Thief (15 Apr 2010)

Oh, pack it in Hackers. It's only a minor misunderstanding based on some words.


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## Camgreen (15 Apr 2010)

User3143 said:


> Generally speaking it's more to do with cyclists taking up cycling who have not really got a clue how to ride a bike in traffic and making stupid mistakes.
> 
> ref: BM's vid that he posted a couple of weeks ago.



Take your point generally, but the news item suggests that the bus may well have ploughed into cyclist and pedestrian here; an unfortunate case of wrong place/time as opposed to inexperience or road positioning, I suspect.


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## Rhythm Thief (15 Apr 2010)

Camgreen said:


> Take your point generally, but the news item suggests that the bus may well have ploughed into cyclist and pedestrian here; an unfortunate case of wrong place/time as opposed to inexperience or road positioning, I suspect.



I think that's why Lee emphasised the word "generally".


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## Camgreen (15 Apr 2010)

Rhythm Thief said:


> I think that's why Lee emphasised the word "generally".



I know, thanks


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## BentMikey (15 Apr 2010)

I must say I nearly got taken out by a WVM as a 10 tonner cut him up very badly and "forced" him into the bus lane next to me.


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## Rhythm Thief (15 Apr 2010)

BentMikey said:


> I must say I nearly got taken out by a WVM as a 10 tonner cut him up very badly and "forced" him into the bus lane next to me.



It's instinctive to swerve away from bigger vehicles. I like to think that I'd hold my position and take the hit on the vehicle instead of swerving into a cyclist, but I wouldn't want to put it to the test.


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## downfader (15 Apr 2010)

Camgreen said:


> Take your point generally, but the news item suggests that the bus may well have ploughed into cyclist and pedestrian here; an unfortunate case of wrong place/time as opposed to inexperience or road positioning, I suspect.



Lee was replying to something I'd asked earlier, an assertion I'd made that there seem to be rather a high number of fatalities and off's in London.


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## downfader (15 Apr 2010)

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...-of-woman-cyclist-crushed-in-oxford-street.do

Story updated. Some daft comments already. I've reported one for being disrespectful. I really think it would sometimes be better to just have the news paper disable comments


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## hackbike 666 (15 Apr 2010)

downfader said:


> http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...-of-woman-cyclist-crushed-in-oxford-street.do
> 
> Story updated. Some daft comments already. I've reported one for being disrespectful. I really think it would sometimes be better to just have the news paper disable comments



Oh I thought you mean't on here.

Good god that's awful.


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## magnatom (15 Apr 2010)

downfader said:


> http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...-of-woman-cyclist-crushed-in-oxford-street.do
> 
> Story updated. Some daft comments already. I've reported one for being disrespectful. I really think it would sometimes be better to just have the news paper disable comments




I'm not going to look at the comments.

The description of the incident sounds absolutely horrific. My thoughts are very much with her family and friends.


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## Davywalnuts (15 Apr 2010)

Oh it really is so tragic and so sad, it really is. RIP fellow cyclist. 

Interesting to note how the story is quite differant than yesterdays, no mention of this "car" at all now. 

Also of note is the reference at the bottom of the article about cycling forum posters. Wonder if we have a wider audience?


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## Sargent (15 Apr 2010)

Very sad. RIP


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## downfader (15 Apr 2010)

Davywalnuts said:


> Oh it really is so tragic and so sad, it really is. RIP fellow cyclist.
> 
> Interesting to note how the story is quite differant than yesterdays, no mention of this "car" at all now.
> 
> Also of note is the reference at the bottom of the article about cycling forum posters. Wonder if we have a wider audience?



Its prolly been mentioned on the BR and YACF too. BR also has a lot of Londoners.


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## hackbike 666 (15 Apr 2010)

What is BR?


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## downfader (15 Apr 2010)

hackbike 666 said:


> What is BR?


Sorry matey, Bikeradar, keep abreiviating it and sometimes forget others wont get me.


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## chemswot (16 Apr 2010)

RIP.

I find it chilling to think I've been there, as a cyclist of only 8 months, quite recently. 

Also, I can just imagine happily pootling along the left of cars and suddenly one veering left. It happened once, but luckily just in front of me and I cover my brakes all the time (as my cycle instructor told me to). I'm sure once I'm back on the road tomorrow, I'll be back to normal, but I just have images in my head now. I hope that isn't too frequent in your experiences?

I might just keep an eye on my road positioning for the next few days...


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## CopperBrompton (16 Apr 2010)

chemswot said:


> I hope that isn't too frequent in your experiences?


I think the type of serious accident that just comes out of nowhere is pretty rare. If you look at most of the cyclist deaths in London, almost all of them involved a cyclist on the inside of a truck at a junction. If you avoid ever placing yourself in that position, and ride with a decent level of overall alertness, cycling in London is very safe.


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## hackbike 666 (16 Apr 2010)

downfader said:


> Sorry matey, Bikeradar, keep abreiviating it and sometimes forget others wont get me.



Oh the *other* forum.


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## dondare (17 Apr 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> I think the type of serious accident that just comes out of nowhere is pretty rare. If you look at most of the cyclist deaths in London, almost all of them involved a cyclist on the inside of a truck at a junction. If you avoid ever placing yourself in that position, and ride with a decent level of overall alertness, cycling in London is very safe.



Certaintly I can avoid cycling up the inside of trucks but I can't stop them overtaking me just before they decide to change lanes or turn left. However, in spite of the odd sticky moment I would agree that cycling in London, and indeed cycling most other places, is very safe.


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## shippers (17 Apr 2010)

Horrible way to go. 

I'm sure anyone else who has had an "out of the blue" off feels rather fortunate to have got up afterwards. 

No news on the pedestrian though? No news is probably good news in this case. Horrible.


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## hackbike 666 (17 Apr 2010)

dondare said:


> Certaintly I can avoid cycling up the inside of trucks but I can't stop them overtaking me just before they decide to change lanes or turn left. However, in spite of the odd sticky moment I would agree that cycling in London, and indeed cycling most other places, is very safe.



Don't agree...so long as idiots driving tin boxes share the road .


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## CopperBrompton (18 Apr 2010)

Look up the stats, hackbike: cycling is a _very_ safe activity compared to much more dangerous activities like driving, DIY and walking downstairs.


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## Mark_Robson (18 Apr 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> Look up the stats, hackbike: cycling is a _very_ safe activity compared to much more dangerous activities like driving, DIY and walking downstairs.


Flying is very safe until it goes wrong.  Seriously though the pro's of cycling far outweigh the cons, he says nursing a broken collar bone.


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## Tinuts (18 Apr 2010)

Awful. 

I gave up attempting to cycle in Oxford Street years ago as I consider it just too hazardous and slow. The major problem is generally pedestrians walking out in front of you without looking so to be hit by a bus........that poor cyclist was really (and terminally) unlucky! 

For those of us still standing, you can travel far quicker and more safely using adjacent parallel streets.


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## dondare (18 Apr 2010)

Mile for mile cycling is safer than walking. 
Five times more pedestrians are killed in road accidents than cyclists.
Cycling is not as safe as driving but cyclists are fitter and healthier than motorists and so live longer on average.
Motorists kill mostly themselves, their passengers and each other. 95% of road accident casualties are not cyclists.
More people are killed in slips, trips and falls than in road accidents. The number of people killed in road accidents continues to fall. Last year it was less than 3000 for the first time ever.


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## hackbike 666 (18 Apr 2010)

But everyone is a pedestrian now and again.

Cant say I have had any bad accidents on the pavement myself. (touchwood)

Yes I have had a few close ones with road traffic (as a ped) and although this is rare it was generally caused by my stupidity or me being pissed.


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## CopperBrompton (18 Apr 2010)

The pedestrian stat is a bit misleading as the majority of serious accidents while walking are young children and elderly people falling or tripping and sustaining head injuries.

But the fact is that cycling is a very, very safe activity. There are of course some deaths, and each of them is tragic, but there are deaths in every human activity - including walking downstairs and making cups of tea.


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## Mark_Robson (18 Apr 2010)

As with all activities and sports there is an element of risk so we all do our own risk/benefit analysis and decide whether the risks are worthwhile to us. And IMO cycling is well worth the risk because it is an easy, fun way to stay fit and it can also save you time and money if you choose to commute by bike.
Sadly though there are always going to be cyling fatalities, as there are with all activities and sports but you can't let that stop you from enjoying life. Just try and stay safe, be responsible and enjoy.


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## dondare (18 Apr 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> The pedestrian stat is a bit misleading as the majority of serious accidents while walking are young children and elderly people falling or tripping and sustaining head injuries.



Uh uh. Refers to pedestrians killed by cyclists on the footpath (average about one every 15 years or so); pedestrians killed in accidents involving cyclists on the carriageway (a couple a year); pedestrians killed by motorists on the footpath, verge or other supposedly vehicle free areas (perhaps 50 a year); and the greatest number: pedestrians killed in collisions with motor-vehicles on the carriageway; about 550 a year. 
Compare with cyclists killed in road accidents at 130 a year or so. 
These figures have been higher in the past but amazingly the roads are getting safer now for everybody than ever before. Or perhaps the hospitals are saving more lives but that seems unlikely.


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## hackbike 666 (18 Apr 2010)

Well I'd be glad that cycling is getting safer if I agreed it was true...but with the standard of driving out there sometimes I have yet to be convinced.

Im sure it was different in the 1980's.


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## Origamist (22 Apr 2010)

Details of the deceased: 

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...et-killed-on-bike-hit-by-oxford-street-bus.do


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## MacB (22 Apr 2010)

Origamist said:


> Details of the deceased:
> 
> http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...et-killed-on-bike-hit-by-oxford-street-bus.do



Very sad, so young and so much of life ahead of her, one can only hope it was quick.


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## ttcycle (22 Apr 2010)

God this is sad -RIP


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## Riding in Circles (22 Apr 2010)

Very sad and very avoidable, good to see the police taking immediate action though.


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## Glow worm (22 Apr 2010)

Tragic. So sad. R.I.P.


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## downfader (22 Apr 2010)

RIP.


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## hackbike 666 (22 Apr 2010)

So sad R.I.P


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## Bromptonaut (14 Sep 2010)

Only learned in summer that victim's father was a deputy head at school where Mrs B taught until last Xmas.


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## 2Loose (14 Sep 2010)

RIP to the cyclist
Get well soon to the ped.

Shocked. Especially after reading the comments on the article. People need some perspective.


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## 400bhp (14 Sep 2010)

dondare said:


> Mile for mile cycling is safer than walking.



Where did you get that from?

I can find no. of deaths, ksi per annum for both peds and cyclists. I can see no. of miles cycled per annum for cyclists. I can't see no. of miles walked by peds?


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## 400bhp (14 Sep 2010)

Personally, this kind of thing reminds me of how vulnerable I am on the road and I hope removes some of the complacency that creeps in from commuting yi bike day-on-day.


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## Origamist (6 Jul 2011)

"Driver of death crash bus had nerve disorder"


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...iver-of-death-crash-bus-had-nerve-disorder.do


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## clarion (6 Jul 2011)

I find this verdict hard to understand. It's impossible to imagine what this has done to the family.


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## dellzeqq (6 Jul 2011)

if the Standard report is accurate the family bear no animosity toward the driver. 

How one ensures that drivers with this kind of condition are kept away from buses or cars I've no idea


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## Angelfishsolo (6 Jul 2011)

Origamist said:


> "Driver of death crash bus had nerve disorder"
> 
> 
> http://www.thisislon...rve-disorder.do


If this was known by the bus company before the event then I am horrified that he was allowed to drive. If he hid it from his employers I am amazed by the court ruling. Either way it is wrong. My heart goes out to the family of the young Lady.


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## SquareDaff (6 Jul 2011)

Wow - my sympathies to the young womans family. 
I hope the pedestrian pulls through too. 

Also sympathies to the bus driver who'll have this on his conscience all of his life - although by the sounds of it he was put in that situation evading the irresponsible driving of another vehicle. 

Everyone lost in that situation!


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## gaz (6 Jul 2011)

I find it strange how metroline thought this driver was fit to drive a vehicle with his condition.


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## Angelfishsolo (6 Jul 2011)

gaz said:


> I find it strange how metroline thought this driver was fit to drive a vehicle with his condition.



Hence my earlier post mate.


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## gaz (6 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Hence my earlier post mate.


Sorry, I didn't know I was not allowed to post my own opinion.
Must I quote similar opinions and say +1?


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## Angelfishsolo (6 Jul 2011)

gaz said:


> Sorry, I didn't know I was not allowed to post my own opinion.
> Must I quote similar opinions and say +1?


I didn't mean it like that. I'm sorry. I meant I was agreeing with you.


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## Tynan (6 Jul 2011)

there seems to be the distinct subtext that the procedures are fine so this can happen again, perhaps even with this same driver?

I'd say this is an excuse anyway, it was plain shoot driving


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## abo (6 Jul 2011)

clarion said:


> I find this verdict hard to understand. It's impossible to imagine what this has done to the family.



'Today Miss Helliwell's family said they felt "no animosity" towards Mr Lewars after he was cleared of causing death by dangerous driving'

Very generous of them. Personally I'd be wanting heads to be rolling, starting with the driver WTF was he doing behind the wheel if he knew he had a nerve disorder. Completely out of order IMHO, and that's coming from a confirmed petrolhead.


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## Angelfishsolo (6 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> 'Today Miss Helliwell's family said they felt "no animosity" towards Mr Lewars after he was cleared of causing death by dangerous driving'
> 
> Very generous of them. Personally I'd be wanting heads to be rolling, starting with the driver WTF was he doing behind the wheel if he knew he had a nerve disorder. Completely out of order IMHO, and that's coming from a confirmed petrolhead.


Amen to that! I would be out for blood!


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## Zoiders (6 Jul 2011)

I am not quite sure how revenge helps.

He killed woman because of a stupid mistake and I am sure he feels like shoot about it, he is also 60 years old and now on the employment scrap heap.

No one wins in this case.


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## abo (6 Jul 2011)

Zoiders said:


> I am not quite sure how revenge helps.
> 
> He killed woman because of a stupid mistake and I am sure he feels like shoot about it, he is also 60 years old and now on the employment scrap heap.
> 
> No one wins in this case.



'where is justice, where is punishment' (to quote The Punisher lol)

In all seriousness, this guy appears to have gotten away with killing a young lady who would be alive today had he not driven his bus with a nerve problem. I wouldn't drive in that condition. I used to do a job which involved a lot of driving and I would have gone on the sick, or asked to be doing something else while I recouperated.

There were other options open to this guy which didn't involve him driving his bus that day and to me it smacks of gross negligence. I think if it had been my daughter who had been squashed then I wouldn't feel justice had been served.


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## Angelfishsolo (6 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> 'where is justice, where is punishment' (to quote The Punisher lol)
> 
> In all seriousness, this guy appears to have gotten away with killing a young lady who would be alive today had he not driven his bus with a nerve problem. I wouldn't drive in that condition. I used to do a job which involved a lot of driving and I would have gone on the sick, or asked to be doing something else while I recouperated.
> 
> There were other options open to this guy which didn't involve him driving his bus that day and to me it smacks of gross negligence. I think if it had been my daughter who had been squashed then I wouldn't feel justice had been served.


Either he or the company are in my eyes guilty of manslaughter.


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## jefmcg (7 Jul 2011)

More details here



> Prosecutor Barry Gregory explained that the CPS had decided to offer no evidence in the case because “it is not now sure that the prosecution could reach the high standard of proving, so that the jury would be sure, that Mr Lewars drove far below the standard expected of a competent and careful driver given those medical circumstances in which it has already been shown that he would not have been able to forsee the sciatica coming on in the way in which it did, causing him to press the accelerator rather than to press or try to press the brake.”
> 
> Mr Lewars’ bus hit Miss Helliwell’s bike and then collided with another bus, before hitting a bus shelter.


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## GrumpyGregry (7 Jul 2011)

CPS. Clueless yet again.


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## Angelfishsolo (7 Jul 2011)

GregCollins said:


> CPS. Clueless yet again.



CPS - Criminal Protection Service


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## Angelfishsolo (7 Jul 2011)

GregCollins said:


> CPS. Clueless yet again.



This really highlights the case for some crimes not being tried by jury but by experts in a given field.


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## gregsid (8 Jul 2011)

Bless her. Prayers to her and her family.


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