# Any builders in the house?



## geocycle (4 Apr 2020)

I recently discovered half my garden wall has collapsed! This is the outer side bordering a field with cows expected back at some point soon. It has been like this fora good while as the rubble is grassed over beneath the collapse. Given the problem of finding a builder who can work while social distancing I’m contemplating a DIY job over Easter. I’m assuming I can retrieve most of the stone. How much mortar would I need to order? I’ve done a reasonable amount of DIY but nothing like this before. Any tips?


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## oldwheels (4 Apr 2020)

You seem to have two different types of construction with the left having mortar and the right none that I can see. It is a while since I did dry stone walling but from a purely personal point of view I would demolish the collapsed bit and continue without mortar. There is a certain amount of art involved but most of it is just common sense and locking the stones together as you go. There is a lot of mystic about dry stone dykes but really it is just hard work and common sense plus of course experience.


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## Slick (4 Apr 2020)

Another for dismantling the entire section and rebuilding but for me it looks like an attempt has been made at a repair already which would explain why both methods have been used. How much mortar you need would depend upon your chosen method and experience levels but I would guess and say not very much depending on how far you have to go back to get a solid point to work from. An after picture would be nice. 👍


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## Skibird (4 Apr 2020)

IF you just want to try and repair it you would only need about 3 bags (not from me but an expert), but it depends on what you want from the wall in the long run. As for getting a builder in, that should not be a problem for just one builder, the only possible issue maybe getting the materials (B&Q still selling but minimum purchases required for some building materials).


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## PK99 (4 Apr 2020)

40 years ago living in Eskdale, I spent a while watching and chatting to an ancient farmer repairing a gap in a drystone wall.

when he finished, he said the test was climb over it - if anything moves, knock it down and start again


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## OldShep (4 Apr 2020)

I’ve built drystane dykes all my life. That’s not the easiest stone to work with you have there. As the picture proves mortar isn’t necessarily going to help you out. Put your coping stones aside somewhere and pull it down to something firm.
if you can find a barrow load of some decent stone that will help you out. Also take a spade and harvest stone that will be at the foot of the wall. Keep it as wide as you can and loose the rubble stuff into the middle as you build. Keep the middle full and don't be tempted to use small stones as a wedge on the outside to stop rocking.
There's about an hours work in that gap and you might enjoy it and start a new career


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## Randomnerd (4 Apr 2020)

I’m a drystone waller, which only helps insomuch as that’s a wall you have there, and wet not dry.
Anyhow, the mortar fill may well not have lime in it, in which case it doesnt move, and blows in winter or when knocked etc
Cut back the full section at both sides at 45 degrees until you are into solid wall, and rebuild with lime mortar (sharp sand, sand and lime) Get some more field stones or whatever, so that you are not short, and use plenty of smashed stone in the infill, with no air pockets.
Dont let rain on the mortar. Leave it all to dry before mortaring on the copes.
Stand back and wait for another bit to fall down.


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## geocycle (4 Apr 2020)

Randomnerd said:


> I’m a drystone waller, which only helps insomuch as that’s a wall you have there, and wet not dry.
> Anyhow, the mortar fill may well not have lime in it, in which case it doesnt move, and blows in winter or when knocked etc
> Cut back the full section at both sides at 45 degrees until you are into solid wall, and rebuild with lime mortar (sharp sand, sand and lime) Get some more field stones or whatever, so that you are not short, and use plenty of smashed stone in the infill, with no air pockets.
> Dont let rain on the mortar. Leave it all to dry before mortaring on the copes.
> Stand back and wait for another bit to fall down.



Awesome! This forum always delivers. Thanks one and all.


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## Globalti (5 Apr 2020)

Don't ask a builder! He will just fill the gap with breeze blocks!


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## Grant Fondo (5 Apr 2020)

OldShep said:


> I’ve built drystane dykes all my life. That’s not the easiest stone to work with you have there. As the picture proves mortar isn’t necessarily going to help you out. Put your coping stones aside somewhere and pull it down to something firm.
> if you can find a barrow load of some decent stone that will help you out. Also take a spade and harvest stone that will be at the foot of the wall. Keep it as wide as you can and loose the rubble stuff into the middle as you build. Keep the middle full and don't be tempted to use small stones as a wedge on the outside to stop rocking.
> There's about an hours work in that gap and you might enjoy it and start a new career


You won't get better advice from me! Lovely wall by the way, really like the copings


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## Globalti (5 Apr 2020)

Yes lovely warm yellow stone. River boulders wall with rough quarried cope. Somebody (probably a builder!) has had a go at pointing the left bit and really overdone the mortar. The right bit is natural and looks much nicer for it with some little plants growing in the gaps. What kind of stone is it? I'm guessing a compact sandstone and you're somewhere in the Midlands?


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## geocycle (5 Apr 2020)

Globalti said:


> Yes lovely warm yellow stone. River boulders wall with rough quarried cope. Somebody (probably a builder!) has had a go at pointing the left bit and really overdone the mortar. The right bit is natural and looks much nicer for it with some little plants growing in the gaps. What kind of stone is it? I'm guessing a compact sandstone and you're somewhere in the Midlands?



Yes fine grained sandstone Or millstone grit river cobbles, but a bit further north In north Lancashire. They probably came from River Lune which is about a kilometre behind where I’m standing. I’m going to speak with the farmer to see if he has a recommended waller before I dive in!

https://www.bgs.ac.uk/downloads/dir...excl=true&t=Lancashire - Building Stone Atlas


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## Globalti (5 Apr 2020)

I'm not far away from you, near Ribchester. Round here the farmers do their own wall repairs when chavved-up Corsas bury themselves in the walls.


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## geocycle (5 Apr 2020)

Great riding round you @Globalti. Ribchester is about my southern limit for a day ride. Regularly come over the Trough, Beacon Fell and Chipping.


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## Globalti (5 Apr 2020)

We've probably met! I sometimes tag along with others for a mile or two for a chat when out solo.


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## Tail End Charlie (5 Apr 2020)

OldShep said:


> There's about an hours work in that gap and you might enjoy it and start a new career


An hour!? I reckon that'd take me at least three days!


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## OldShep (5 Apr 2020)

Tail End Charlie said:


> An hour!? I reckon that'd take me at least three days!


Charlie You must be a perfectionist 
Estimated my time with horizontal rain and a shed full of sheep needing attention. It’s only way I’ve known


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## Randomnerd (6 Apr 2020)

OP; from your snap, I would say half a day should be charged by a good contractor. Say £155 and no more, from the picture alone. Of course, the caveat is that I can’t see the back of the wall or the rest of it. If you get someone in, you might be as well to get the whole boundary looked over.
Drystone walling rates are in a range of £40-55 per square metre to rebuild (less for farm walling if there’s a lot).


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## OldShep (6 Apr 2020)

I’m smiling this morning thanks to Woodenspoons reminding me of how to price a job. I’ve a friend also dId walling in North Yorkshire and included in his price structure was an increased rate if it’s for a Westie moved into the area.


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