# Touring bike



## chassyp (24 Nov 2010)

I have recently returned to cycling following a 30 year break!! Phew!!!

Anyway following a 6 month 3day a week gym routine, I felt fit enough to get back in the saddle. I did a few miles a day around south lakes and got my confidence back. (Like riding a bike really) Anyway, in August I decided to have mid life crisis 3 day tour on my bike taking in three counties Lancs/Dales/and Cumbria. I made it just! On reflection I guess my ride would have been easier if I had used a lighter bike. I currently have a Marin Redwoods which I love dearly but find a bit heavy. The reason I bought it (second hand) was the suspension. Sprung seat and front forks. I have neck and shoulder problem caused with using heavy vibrating machinery for many years. (Self employed and self inflicted) So it’s a sit up and beg job for me i`m afraid. I have also raised the bars with spacers and got an armchair for a saddle (not really) just feels like it. Anyway to cut to the chase…Does anyone know of a bike that is light, has suspension, and is able to take back panniers? It seems all the lightweight bikes I look at do not afford none of the above! 
Thanks for any help 
Charlie aged 56 and ¾.


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## cnb (24 Nov 2010)

Its a bit of a funny one this because once you put suspension on a bike it becomes a bit heavier... You could look at something like the specialized crosstrail or any of the main manufacturers like Giant,Trek, etc....You could also look at something more roadie.. like the specialized sirrus...


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## chassyp (24 Nov 2010)

Thanks for those ideas. 
Can those models carry rear panniers do you know? I can`t see from the pictures on ebay etc. Looks promising though


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## 007fair (24 Nov 2010)

chassyp said:


> I have recently returned to cycling following a 30 year break!! Phew!!!
> 
> Anyway following a 6 month 3day a week gym routine, I felt fit enough to get back in the saddle. I did a few miles a day around south lakes and got my confidence back. (Like riding a bike really) Anyway, in August I decided to have mid life crisis 3 day tour on my bike taking in three counties Lancs/Dales/and Cumbria. I made it just! On reflection I guess my ride would have been easier if I had used a lighter bike. I currently have a Marin Redwoods which I love dearly but find a bit heavy. The reason I bought it (second hand) was the suspension. Sprung seat and front forks. I have neck and shoulder problem caused with using heavy vibrating machinery for many years. (Self employed and self inflicted) So it’s a sit up and beg job for me i`m afraid. I have also raised the bars with spacers and got an armchair for a saddle (not really) just feels like it. Anyway to cut to the chase…Does anyone know of a bike that is light, has suspension, and is able to take back panniers? It seems all the lightweight bikes I look at do not afford none of the above!
> Thanks for any help
> Charlie aged 56 and ¾.




Sounds like all your riding is on roads	If so you would be better with no front suspension	Its heavier and also soaks up forward momentum - which is pointless if the surface is smooth

Could you test a bike without front sus and see how you get on?

There are many bikes that will take a rack - from fast road bikes with 25mm tyres to full on on steel tourers. Often the lighter you go the less comfortable but this is not neccessarily so And if it s lighter its easier to get up hills ..

The Spesh Sirrus I ticks all the boxes if you don't need suspension forks


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## chassyp (24 Nov 2010)

I did wonder about giving a non sprung bike a try while a go! I changed the tyres to a road tyres a month or so ago. However I soon put my fat ones back on! Thanks for the idea though. I guess I`m stuck with the weight. I have just put the old Marin on the scales and she comes in at 17kg. I notice the specialized sirrus weighs about 10kg. That means I am riding with almost another bike on my back, as well as parriers! No wonder I was struggling up those darn hills eh? Worth a look at in the new year then. Thanks again.


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## thistler (24 Nov 2010)

I saw this on ebay and thought it looked pretty nice:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280593669168&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I've never ridden a bike with that type of front suspension....this bike can take both front and rear panniers, with a sprung seat I'll bet it's quite smooth....?


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## Yellow Fang (24 Nov 2010)

A Cannondale Tesoro might fit the bill.


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## snorri (24 Nov 2010)

I wonder if spongy bar grips would be helpful in your case?
http://bestofferbuy.com/Comfortable...ource=gbase&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=gbase

There is a vast range of grips on the market, a search engine will help you find others.


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## Amheirchion (24 Nov 2010)

A quick note on the Specialized Crosstrail, I have the sport version (2010 I believe) and it can take a rear rack for panniers, though it does share the eyelet with the mud guards.


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## JackE (25 Nov 2010)

You might want to consider booking a bike fitting session with Paul Hewitt (of Leyland). It costs £50 and there is no compulsion to buy one of his bikes. With neck or back problems a good fit is hugely important and small adjustments can make a big difference. He is highly recommended on this and the CTC forum.


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## chassyp (25 Nov 2010)

Thanks for all the input folks. I never thought of buying spongy grips! The e bay bike looks great. However i think I need at least a short ride before deciding. I now know my options are more open than before. Having gone into a few bike shops (no names etc) I seem to be being told I was a no hoper. I guess they didnt have on the shelves what I was after. Anyway, I now know there is light at the end of the tunnel so to speak. Currently I am sat here off work yet again with a trapped nerve in the shoulder typing with one hand!! You youngsters out there take note! Thanks again all.


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## CanucksTraveller (25 Nov 2010)

As well as more comfortable grips, a seat with suspension is another thing to consider, that way the seat absorbs the bumps but you're not wasting as much energy as you would be with full suspension at the back. Plus it's a far lighter option than suspension. Many models of Brooks saddles have full sprung suspension. 

If drop bars are a no-no, then both the Specialized Sirrus and the Trek 7.3 are good touring options, I weighed up a Sirrus and eventually bought the Trek. Have a look at both of them, they'll both take front and rear pannier racks very easily at the turn of an allen key.


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## RecordAceFromNew (25 Nov 2010)

Your request indeed offers an interesting challenge, since it is somewhat similar to one of my quests (for a truly comfy yet light bike), some observations I have might be of interest to you.
While the vast majority of bikes with suspension are heavy clunkers, light, excellent bikes even with full suspension do exist, and I think are worthy of consideration.

Depending on variants (having different levels of components, hence different weight and cost) within each model, I think the plushest, nicest rides to be had on two wheels are full suspension bikes under 12 kgs. Examples include the Cannondale Scalpel, Santa Cruz Superlight, Giant Anthem, Trek Top Fuel, Specialized Epic etc.

They have two downsides, first is that they are costly (say £2500 and up new), and secondly most have no conventional pannier carrying capacity. It seems to me however that if you are planning to travel light then the latter might not be a big issue (you can have a largish saddle bag e.g.), and if you intend to carrying lots on your travels then I am not sure having a truly light bike is that meaningful anyway.

Regarding cost, IMHO secondhand, high quality bikes can be had for amazing value - models above that are only a couple of years old can often be picked up for around 1/3rd of their price when new. However buying secondhand well reliably does require patience as well as knowledge.

Balloon tyres allow an alternate way to achieving a plush, light ride. This can be achieved with the biggest Schwalbe Big Apple the fork/frame can accept on a light, quality hybrid or mtb without suspension (that weighs say 10kgs in standard form). Such tyres are not light, but their weight penalty of around 1kg a pair is compensated by forgoing shock absorbers, and they are not particularly expensive. Compared to a quality full sus such a bike will also be a doddle to maintain and may have good luggage carrying capacity. The bigger tyres may also enable one to forgo any heavy saddle or suspension seatpost.

Regarding grips, the Ergon grips are exceptionally comfortable as they are specially designed to mitigate road shocks on hands. They are imitated/copied, but I think the real things are well worth their price.

I expect folks more knowledgeable than I would also come along and recommend trying a recumbent, which are super efficient at speed and easy on one's hands and back. But I have no experience of such and I worry about their visibility to other road vehicles.

I agree with others that bike fit is very important. Generally pressure on one's hands/shoulders is lessened by having lower saddle on larger frame, but good stem and handlebar choice also work.


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## frank9755 (25 Nov 2010)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Balloon tyres allow an alternate way to achieving a plush, light ride. This can be achieved with the biggest Schwalbe Big Apple the fork/frame can accept on a light, quality hybrid or mtb without suspension (that weighs say 10kgs in standard form). Such tyres are not light, but their weight penalty of around 1kg a pair is compensated by forgoing shock absorbers, and they are not particularly expensive. Compared to a quality full sus such a bike will also be a doddle to maintain and may have good luggage carrying capacity. The bigger tyres may also enable one to forgo any heavy saddle or suspension seatpost.



+1 on fat tyres, run at low pressure. With a suspension seat-post, it should give you plenty of comfort, especially as you are aiming for a more leisurely position with most of your weight on your seat. 

But if you really want suspension (and maybe your condition is such that it you do need it), then one of the standard hardtail mountain bikes like a Specialized Rockhopper or equivalent from any other maker (they're all pretty much the same - try Halfords / Carrera for good value), should give you that for around 13kg. Do change the tyres though for 'slicks'


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## chassyp (25 Nov 2010)

Once again, many many thanks for all the time given in helping with my problem. 

Being at the fingertips of all this knowledge is truly fantastic. I have much to mull over before for my next trek. The information impartially given is worth is weight in gold. I often find shops only want to sell you what they have and not what you need very often. Anyway lots to mull over there. Thanks again.


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## cnb (25 Nov 2010)

Just had a thought on this...Have you looked at the moulton range...they have a different type of suspension and have their own carrying system(for luggage). bit expensive though


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## Muddyfox (25 Nov 2010)

thistler said:


> I saw this on ebay and thought it looked pretty nice:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.u...e=STRK:MEWAXT
> 
> I've never ridden a bike with that type of front suspension....this bike can take both front and rear panniers, with a sprung seat I'll bet it's quite smooth....?




Thistler has an eye for finding nice bikes on e-bay






My Cannondale MTB has the ultra fatty headshock front suspension which is lighter than conventional front forks and works brilliantly and the lock out is also extrememly good 






and with a set of slicks and racks it'd be ready for touring 






Simon


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## yello (25 Nov 2010)

Yellow Fang said:


> A Cannondale Tesoro might fit the bill.


I like the look of that. Cannondale make decent bikes too.


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## Yellow Fang (25 Nov 2010)

thistler said:


> I saw this on ebay and thought it looked pretty nice:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.u...e=STRK:MEWAXT
> 
> I've never ridden a bike with that type of front suspension....this bike can take both front and rear panniers, with a sprung seat I'll bet it's quite smooth....?



Got to say that's a bloody good spec for the money if it's in decent condition. A 22" frame is quite large, I believe. I wonder why the photo was taken in in a bike shop.


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## rualexander (25 Nov 2010)

Not sure what sort of budget you are looking at but you might get what you are looking for with an Airnimal Rhino which also has the extra versatility of folding. It is capable of taking a rear rack for panniers etc. see FAQs.


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## cnb (25 Nov 2010)

I've been reading some reviews on the cannondale bikes(user reviews) and that head shox system doesn't seem that reliable.. Its something that would concern me


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## chassyp (27 Nov 2010)

Anyone any ideas about using a trailer like this?
http://www.bikesandtrailers.com/dog-trailers/rover_pet_trailer.html
I guess the weight is just being transferred? Just a thought though!


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## andym (28 Nov 2010)

17kg aounds like a lot and if you need to lighten the bike then the cheapest option would be to change the frame for a steel hardtail MTB frame. If that's not enough buy some scales and work out where that weight is (unfortunately adjustable headsets and suspension seatposts both tend to be heavy).

I don't know what sort of protection you need, but IME while suspension will help cushion the impact if you ride into a pothole or off a step, it won't cushion against normal road/trail vibration.Your best bet is to ride with nice fat tyres, and a sprung saddle and/or a Thudbuster suspension post. You might also want to consider getting nice soft rubber grips - or even butterfly bars and wrapping them with thick rubbery tape. Specialized BG gloves are good. 

It's a personal thing, but my experience is that a steel frame will give ales harsh ride than an aluminium frame. Of course you could consider mire radical solutions - like a recumbent or a tikre.

The trailer would be a great help ... if you have a dog. Otherwise it won't help you at all.


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## chassyp (29 Nov 2010)

Thanks for that. I`ll try and strip the bike down to a frame over the winter and rebuild with a lighter one if I can source one. Thanks again.


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## andym (29 Nov 2010)

chassyp said:


> Thanks for that. I`ll try and strip the bike down to a frame over the winter and rebuild with a lighter one if I can source one. Thanks again.



Check out, for example, on-one.co.uk


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## RecordAceFromNew (29 Nov 2010)

chassyp said:


> Thanks for that. I`ll try and strip the bike down to a frame over the winter and rebuild with a lighter one if I can source one. Thanks again.



Model spec do change, but unless it is 15 years or older the Redwood is an aluminium hardtail (with no rear suspension, but might have a suspended seatpost). If so I don't see how replacing the frame with a steel one will lighten it at all given Marin alloy frames are generally highly quality, reasonably light frames.

A somewhat informed guess, based on knowing that a similarly equipped 3 year old standard Marin Pioneer Trial hardtail weighs 13 kgs, is that I don't think a standard Marin Redwood as specified above weighs as much as 17kgs. I would expect it weighs around 14kgs. I wonder if the OP's 17kg bike includes some or all of racks, panniers, locks, or includes bigger tyres or heavier saddles etc. that are not original equipment?


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## Zoiders (29 Nov 2010)

Cannondal did at one stage sell a drop bar 700c wheel bike aimed at roughtstuff riding that had a headshock.

Can't recall if they still do it.


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## chassyp (29 Nov 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions. I guess I did weigh the bike with its bits and bobs which have been added. Stand/lights/bell/trip meter/blackburn rack/mudguards. Mmmmmm! Maybe a strip down and re weigh?


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## RecordAceFromNew (29 Nov 2010)

chassyp said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I guess I did weigh the bike with its bits and bobs which have been added. Stand/lights/bell/trip meter/blackburn rack/mudguards. Mmmmmm! Maybe a strip down and re weigh?



If you need them on your ride, stripping them weighing them is not really going to achieve very much, because a) these add-ons won't be very far off 3 kgs, and b) you will be putting them all back. On the other hand, as I mentioned in an earlier post, an alternative is to travel light and with that objective you might find that you can forgo the stand, rack etc. If you are prepared to do that, then stripping and minimising/upgrading components in order to reduce weight is certainly an alternative - you have already got a reasonably light frame.

However, looking at the Redwood's component spec, I think one can make it lighter, but it will be costly, because a) you will have to replace a lot of components to make a substantial dent in weight, and b) light components are expensive new and potentially tricky to buy/fit secondhand.


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## samid (30 Nov 2010)

IMHO front suspension is not needed unless you're riding off-road - and weights quite a bit extra. Properly fitting bike with a comfortable (for you!) riding position, fattish slick tyres at lower pressure, and maybe plushy grips and a suspended Brooks could do lots of good on the other hand. Just my CAD$.02


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## willem (30 Nov 2010)

The lightest bikes would be 26 inch audax bikes with 50 mm wide tyres or 650B audax bikes with 42 mm tyres (650B is an old French tyre size that is becoming increasingly popular again, though not yet very much in the UK). If you go to a custom builder you can have them from 11 or perhaps more realistically 12 kg, including rear rack and mudguards. A much cheaper alternative would be to get a second hand steel 700c road bike and do a so called 650B conversion with 42mm Grandbois Hetre tyres (New wheels and new brakes is all you will need). If you can find a bike with enough clearance for the Hetres, this would be a cheap, comfortable and very classy option. I would also keep the drop bars. Finally, I would fit a Thudbuster ST seatpost. These are the best you can find, and are far more comfortable than sprung saddles. You need a bit of seatpost length, but if you have that, they are great. I think they are ugly, but I was very happy to use one on a part off road tour in Norway last summer (I have a bad back).
With respect to the current bike, I would look for wide, flexible and light tyres such as the 50 mm Schwalbe Kojak (unless you want to ride trails, in which case use light modern mtb tyres or Marathon Extremes for serious off road touring). Use ultralight tubes in them and you will have saved more weight. Don't waste money on a new bike that may be 2-3 kg lighter, at the very best. 
On balance, it is much easier and cheaper, however, to reduce the weight of the luggage (and of your own body) than to reduce the weight of a bike. Once you are back in shape, think about a custom bike if you still think you need and deserve something lighter, and when you know what kind of touring you will do (so you can get the bike that is just right). Or get a 650B conversion for road use, and use your slightly lightened existing mtb for the trails.
It is no problem at all to tour with camping luggage that will fit in just two rear panniers (did that, even in Norway). A total camping luggage weight of 15 kg for western European conditions is quite easy, and 12 kg is possible. Below that, you will have to compromise on comfort.
Willem


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## psmiffy (30 Nov 2010)

chassyp - I have read all the posts and nobody has asked what sort of touring you intend to do – you have implied that it is short multi day trips probably covering a reasonable distance.

I have three “touring” bikes which weigh between 12kg and 17kg – The lightest I use for short multi day trips staying at friends or sometimes in B&Bs – the heaviest (my "proper tourer") is used for multi week camping tours.

The bike you have does seem to be a bit on the heavy side for a “light tourer” – but no matter – it has suspension and it has a rack to which you can fit panniers. It is exactly the same type of bike that I have seen used by thousands of people touring in Europe over not inconsiderable distances on the various Rads, Velo's and Via's.

Much as it pains me to agree with Willem it is much easier and effective with a touring bike to cut weight from the load than it is from the bike itself.







As can be seen - the bike is only a small percentage of what you have to move - If the bike you have is reasonably reliable and your ambitions are towards short lightly loaded tours I would stick with it - maybe a change of tyres and a bit of fettle with the gears to give you an easier ride - but who knows you might end up in the market for buying a "proper tourer" capable of carrying anything anywhere.


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## chassyp (30 Nov 2010)

Thanks again all for the masses of info. After taking in all the wise words and years of experience people have brought to this question. I guess my problems are down to one thing, and that is my lack of experience!! Previous to taking my first serious venture on the road (3 days.) I had only ever done 10/20 miles without baggage etc. On reflection and looking at the bigger picture, I guess lack of road training was my downfall. I look at your setup PSMIFFY, and my bike looks naked compared to the front, rear, top, and bottom loads you carry! I tried to keep my weight down on the bike, but still struggled. 

On my short ride this year I stopped in bunkhouses and carried the bare minimum. I was hoping to do some wild camping touring next year and that will also require more weight as tent etc will be essential. Looks like more training is required before the next trip I guess? Thanks for all the input one and all. I think I have found the answer to my difficulty at last.


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## andym (30 Nov 2010)

chas

psmiffy is something of a legend in his ability to ride unfeasibly long distances with unfeasibly heavy loads and still find time to visit the local branch of M. Bricolage.

I'm not familiar with the model of bike you have, but I used to have an entry-level hybrid and the frame, seatpost and adjustable stem were all pretty heavy. So I'm sure there's some scope for losong weight - although I'd be surprised if it was more than a couple of kgs.

As ever with these things it's a question of both rather than either/or. If you weigh 80 kgs your bike weighs 17 and you luggage weighs 18 kgs you could say aim to lose 2 kgs from the bike, and 3 kgs from your luggage (although in your case that might be 3 kgs less than what it might have been. And if you can lose 5kgs of body weight well that's got to be a bonus.


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## willem (1 Dec 2010)

And the easiest way to get fit and stay fit for a cycle tour is to ride on a daily basis. Even if you only commute say 10 miles a day, and do some of your errands on your bike, you will still be far fitter than training hard once a week. Build up that basic fitness, and you will be able to benefit much more from training hard. There will also be much less chance of an injury.
As for camping tours, search this forum, and you will see widely divergent views on how much to take for a comfortable trip: what matters more, the comfort of using the stuff you take, or the comfort of not carrying it? There will also be some clear suggestions on how to travel light if that is what you will choose to do.
Willem


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## chassyp (3 Dec 2010)

Thanks for the advice re training willem! I go to the gym 2/3 times a week and that includes some cycling. However after reading your input it seems I still need to get my backside in the saddle a lot more! Roll on the thaw!! 

Cheers for the great advice and support everyone has taken the time to give.


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