# Giro del Trentino - SPOILERS



## rich p (15 Apr 2013)

This is probably Wiggins and Nibali's last head to head before the Giro. The only start list I could find was still provisional and it starts in Lienz tomorrow with a double header stage. Sprint stage a.m. and a TTT in the afternoon.
A decent field including Basso, Scarponi, Pozzovivo, Rolland and Evans.
It could be a good illustration of the Giro given the terrain of the Dolomites.
Also featuring a few of the bad boys of Italian cycling - Rebellin in a Polish team, Pelizzotti, Garzella, Sella to name but a few.
MTN-QHUBEKA are there too for added interest.


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## Flying_Monkey (15 Apr 2013)

rich p said:


> MTN-QHUBEKA are there too for added interest.


 
Execllent - and Tsgabu Grmay, who made history in the Tour of Taiwan recently, is racing. They have some strong climbers.


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## rich p (15 Apr 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Execllent - and Tsgabu Grmay, who made history in the Tour of Taiwan recently, is racing. They have some strong climbers.


..and this young South African is supposed to be useful, Louis Meintjes.


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## raindog (15 Apr 2013)

I don't think Hesjedal is doing this?


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## rich p (15 Apr 2013)

raindog said:


> I don't think Hesjedal is doing this?


Nope, and neither are Garmin!
A few of the Pro teams aren't and a selection of unusual others are
http://www.girodeltrentino.com/EN/1/2/Teams.htm


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## raindog (15 Apr 2013)

cheers Rich - couldn't find a start list anywhere


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## oldroadman (15 Apr 2013)

rich p said:


> Nope, and neither are Garmin!
> A few of the Pro teams aren't and a selection of unusual others are
> http://www.girodeltrentino.com/EN/1/2/Teams.htm


 Not a world tour race so first division teams are not obliged to ride it. A good opportunity for division 2 (pro-conti) teams and others to show what they can do, but ultimately, if ridden hard by the top teams, it will be an interesting form pointer for the Giro.


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## Flying_Monkey (15 Apr 2013)

rich p said:


> Nope, and neither are Garmin!
> A few of the Pro teams aren't and a selection of unusual others are
> http://www.girodeltrentino.com/EN/1/2/Teams.htm


 
It's a really interesting field and I can't see Pozzovivo defending his crown this year. It's great to see Team Colombia there, as none of the major Colombian riders with World Tour teams are riding. Of young Brits, Peter Kennaugh is riding for Sky and Erick Rowsell is there for NetApp-Endura. And my favourite Japanese escape artist, Yukiya Arashiro, is listed so there will be at least one 100+km heroic and hopeless escapade...


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## oldroadman (15 Apr 2013)

oldroadman said:


> Not a world tour race so first division teams are not obliged to ride it. A good opportunity for division 2 (pro-conti) teams and others to show what they can do, but ultimately, if ridden hard by the top teams, it will be an interesting form pointer for the Giro.


 
Thanks for the link to start list, all D1 and D2 teams. the usual mix expected for a race at this level. Some interesting scraps to be sorted out and no doubt the odd revalation by a D2 team.


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## Radchenister (16 Apr 2013)

_''Eurosport - Europe; Live video starting with stage 2 on Wednesday at 13:30 CET. Stage 1b highlights at 11:30 BST on British Eurosport '' - Steephill TV_

Looks like no live coverage possibilities for today?


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## smutchin (16 Apr 2013)

Maxime Bouet has won stage 1a - part of an escape group that, last I heard, was still 8mins clear with 4km left to race.


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## fimm (16 Apr 2013)

Probably a stupid question, but why were the BBC describing the 124km opening stage as "unprecedented"? It sounded to me like they were quoting from a press release, but what was unusual about it?


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## Hont (16 Apr 2013)

rich p said:


> neither are Garmin!


Odd, they normally love a race that has a team time trial in it.


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## rich p (16 Apr 2013)

I see Sky bullied the opposition again with their tactics of driving along in a line today. Typical USPS behaviour.
13 seconds ahead of Astana which gives Wiggo some sort of cushion over Nibali in the mountains.


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## WannabeCyclist (16 Apr 2013)

Sky must have decided todays breakaway isn't going to cut it in the mountains, otherwise they surely would have chased a seven minute gap?


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## Crackle (16 Apr 2013)

Bouet can climb. 6 minutes is a big gap, I'm surprised they let it go.


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## smutchin (16 Apr 2013)

WannabeCyclist said:


> Sky must have decided todays breakaway isn't going to cut it in the mountains, otherwise they surely would have chased a seven minute gap?


 
In last year's TdF, on stage 17 to Peyragudes, for example, Maxime Bouet lost over 16 minutes to the leaders. Not sure who else was in the escape group or what their climbing ability is like, but it's probably safe to assume the main contenders didn't think there was any one worth worrying about among them.

Tomorrow's stage has a Cat 1 lump in the middle, then finishes on another Cat 1 climb, so that should shake up the standings a bit. Wednesday's stage doesn't look lumpy enough to do any major damage to the peloton, but Thursday's final stage finishes on an HC climb which averages under 10% gradient but has sections of 20%...

If you want to get an idea of just how steep it is, here's a video clip of Team Colombia training on that climb:

View: https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10200662826120091


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## smutchin (16 Apr 2013)

Crackle said:


> Bouet can climb.


 
Not well enough to be a threat in the big mountains, surely? I agree that six minutes is a generous advantage to give away to someone of Bouet's ability, but I reckon the likes of Nibali will easily claw that back over tomorrow and Thursday's stages.


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## Crackle (16 Apr 2013)

smutchin said:


> Not well enough to be a threat in the big mountains, surely? I agree that six minutes is a generous advantage to give away to someone of Bouet's ability, but I reckon the likes of Nibali will easily claw that back over tomorrow and Thursday's stages.


No he's not a great climber and I'd expect him to lose handfuls of minutes on a big climb normally but he's capable enough to be a concern and capable of a surprise. You're probably right but I bet normally they wouldn't have given him six minutes except they had half an eye on the TTT later on.


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## smutchin (16 Apr 2013)

Crackle said:


> he's capable enough to be a concern and capable of a surprise.


 
Let's hope so! That could make the race very interesting.


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## beastie (16 Apr 2013)

That's the first time in a while the sky choo choo TTTrain has fired properly. 

Bouet will have areal reason to dig in now on the climbs, if he can limit his losses he should be leader at least until the last day, and who knows. It might make for some.hard racing by Cannondale, Sky etc. Though I don't know how much the big boys will care about overall GC as long as they beat each other.


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## Strathlubnaig (16 Apr 2013)

Were race radios, or the lack of them, a factor in the break time gap ?


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## Flying_Monkey (16 Apr 2013)

I'd worry more about MTN-Qhubeka's Van Rensburg and Colombia's Rodriguez in the mountains than Bouet if I was DS of any of the major teams. Those two are both strong climbers and I think they all missed a trick letting them go out so far.


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## smutchin (17 Apr 2013)

Just been perusing the results from yesterday and looking up the palmares of some of the other riders in the breakaway group...

Michael Rodriguez finished nearly 8mins behind Gesink on the stage to Mt Baldy in last year's Tour of California, and was 29th overall in the mountains classification, so the evidence _on paper_ suggests you may be overrating his climbing ability.

Van Rensburg won the Tour of Eritrea last year, and I dare say that's a fairly bumpy race, though the standard of competition won't have been all that high. Will be interesting to see how he gets on today.

Enzo Moyano looks like he can climb a bit - he did OK in the Tour de San Luis last year - but probably not a real threat. Josef Cerny and Pavel Kocketkov also look like competent but not great climbers. Nicola Dal Santo and Xu Gang look like they aren't worth losing any sleep over.

Of course, this is all based on past results rather than current form, and who knows what the circumstances of those results were - I mean, if you only look at his results on paper, Siutsou has had a poor season so far... I don't claim to know what any of these riders are capable of when fired up. But suffice to say I would be surprised if any of the riders in yesterday's breakaway figure prominently in the final reckoning.

Edit: in light of the Siutsou thing, I had a closer look at Rodriguez's results and he was probably riding as a domestique for Duarte at the Tour of California last year, which puts his result on Mt Baldy into some perspective.


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## rich p (17 Apr 2013)

Good research Smutch!


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## Crackle (17 Apr 2013)

rich p said:


> Good research Smutch!


Yep, I agree. I still think Bouet is the most capable but whether he's capable enough, we'll see today.


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## Flying_Monkey (17 Apr 2013)

smutchin said:


> Edit: in light of the Siutsou thing, I had a closer look at Rodriguez's results and he was probably riding as a domestique for Duarte at the Tour of California last year, which puts his result on Mt Baldy into some perspective.


 
Yes, indeed, that's exactly what I would have said in reply to your original unedited post. Plus, there's a touch of Pozzovivo about Rodriguez and as he showed, Trentino is a stage race that a pure climber can win. I would certainly agree that neither Van Rensburg or Rodriguez are obvious overall contenders, but I just really _hope_ that the big teams might have a tougher task than they clearly assume...


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## smutchin (17 Apr 2013)

rich p said:


> Good research Smutch!


 
Cheers! The internet makes life so much easier - this is where I got all the info on which I based my comments above: http://www.procyclingstats.com

Given that FM is the resident expert on Colombians, I will take his opinion on individual riders such as Rodriguez as being worth more than bare results on paper though.


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## thom (17 Apr 2013)

Sir Bradley of Wigginshire nearly climbed off during the first stage yesterday. Or so he claims:


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## smutchin (17 Apr 2013)

In case you missed it, here's a bit of context to Wiggo's comments in that interview:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/04/news/wiggins-rough-ahead-of-giro-del-trentino_282170


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## rich p (17 Apr 2013)

Rodriguez was one of the first to be shelled out the back!
Climbed like a dawg.


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## rich p (17 Apr 2013)

Blimey, the camerabike just knocked Monsalve off FFS!


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## Crackle (17 Apr 2013)

rich p said:


> Rodriguez was one of the first to be shelled out the back!
> Climbed like a dawg.


Bleedin' typical. Sing their praises and they founder: Bouet next


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## rich p (17 Apr 2013)

Astana putting in a dig.


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## rich p (17 Apr 2013)

Wiggins covered the Nibali attack easily


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## tug benson (17 Apr 2013)

going to be a good finish


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## raindog (17 Apr 2013)

Nibs and Brad cross the line together - nice that. Going to be a good Giro.
I like Nibali.


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## thom (17 Apr 2013)

Siutsou wins the stage, from Santambrogio, Nibali, Wiggins, for the record.
Bouet takes the lead, coming in 2.23 down.


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## WannabeCyclist (17 Apr 2013)

Nibali wasn't getting away from Wiggins there, puts adavantage to him in the Giro as he is a different class at time trailing.


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## smutchin (17 Apr 2013)

Pah! Went for lunch and missed it. Was expecting the finish to be a bit later.


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## Flying_Monkey (17 Apr 2013)

Crackle said:


> Bleedin' typical. Sing their praises and they founder: Bouet next


 
Yep, he didn't look much like the climber he's supposed to be.  I guess Sky wanted to reward Siutsou for doing such a great domestique job by letting him go for it - and he repaid that trust rather brilliantly. Wiggins looked very much in control though.


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## Slaav (17 Apr 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Yep, he didn't look much like the climber he's supposed to be.  I guess Sky wanted to reward Siutsou for doing such a great domestique job by letting him go for it - and he repaid that trust rather brilliantly. Wiggins looked very much in control though.


 
Didn't Siutsou crash out of the TdF last year early on? If so, and they still dominated, what the hell will this summer be like if they all stay upright?

Are they simply becoming the Man Utd of cycling? I certainly hope so - and I cannot stand MU


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## smutchin (17 Apr 2013)

Slaav said:


> Didn't Siutsou crash out of the TdF last year early on?


 
Cripes, yes. Well remembered. Pretty serious crash too - broken leg or hip or something like that, wasn't it?


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## Flying_Monkey (17 Apr 2013)

Looking at the full results, Rodriguez actually rode quite well to limit his losses. He's still in 6th overall. Bouet, however, rode really well.


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## claver58 (17 Apr 2013)

Eurosport never gave the GC after todays result. I found out that Bradley is 4th and Nibali 5th from Velonews but I can't find out the times. Anyone help at a website to show the GC times?


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## Strathlubnaig (17 Apr 2013)

in eurosports defense, they get the feed from the host broadcaster and cant control the output


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## Radchenister (17 Apr 2013)

claver58 said:


> Eurosport never gave the GC after todays result. I found out that Bradley is 4th and Nibali 5th from Velonews but I can't find out the times. Anyone help at a website to show the GC times?


http://www.steephill.tv/giro-del-trentino/#summary


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## Flying_Monkey (17 Apr 2013)

Or cyclingews: http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/giro-del-trentino-2013/stage-2/results


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## claver58 (17 Apr 2013)

Tks Rad - now bookmarked


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## smutchin (18 Apr 2013)

Tiralongo and Scarponi in a 10-man breakaway with 1'30" gap, both with one team-mate for support. Cataldo in there for Sky. Don't imagine the peloton will allow them to win by seven minutes again today...


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## Flying_Monkey (18 Apr 2013)

Santaromita wins it from the more fancied Tiralongo and Scarponi. Overall is as you were, so it all comes down to that massive finish tomorrow...


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## rich p (18 Apr 2013)

Santambrogio will probably finish this race....
...after CONI were allowed access to the Mantova case details.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/coni-to-gain-access-to-mantova-papers
...Alessandro Ballan, Damiano Cunego, Marco Bandiera, Mauro Da Dalto, Manuele Mori, Massimiliano Mori, Marzio Bruseghin, Daniele Pietropolli, Simone Ponzi and Mauro Santambrogio.
Might not help Ballan's recuperation though apart from giving him more convalescent time.


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## Booyaa (18 Apr 2013)

Nice win for Santaromita, I fancied him from quite far out as I thought the other two were just looking at each other too much and thought he might surprise them. In the end Tiralongo just didn't have the legs.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Apr 2013)

It's crunch time today. Can Bouet hold out? He seems confident that he can (there's an interview over on cyclingnews). He might be able to limit his losses enough even if the favourites really go for it but he could also blow up big time. The best scenario for him is if Nibali and Wiggins are more concerned with each other and the Giro than this race. Neither may want to really show how good they are at this stage and may be prepared to stick precisely to pre-race plans. If this is the case, Bouet could win this and have a very slightly easier day than he might have feared...


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## Booyaa (19 Apr 2013)

I'm guessing he is going to hold on. I think Nibali and Wiggins will have digs at each other just to test but will not be too serious in going for the win. I think Bouet will ride on for the win.


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## rich p (19 Apr 2013)

If it comes to a bunfight on the last hill I think Bouet will hang on, but if Nibali or Santambroggio go on the attack on the penultimate climb he may struggle.
I suspect it will be more cautious than I'd hope with Nibali trying to get one over on Wiggins halfway up the last mountain.


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## PpPete (19 Apr 2013)

I suspect we'll see another display of corporate bullying


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## Crackle (19 Apr 2013)

Hard to say isn't it. I don't think it will be as cagey as day two and if Nibali goes for it on the first descent then things are going to split and he and Wiggins know they won't win if they leave it too late but maybe that's not a major concern.

It's a longer climb, gauntlets will be down and Bouet will have to ride out of his skin to hold on. If that happens can't see him doing it but if, as said, it stays together, he could. Love to see it.

Whatever happens it's going to be exciting.


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## The Couch (19 Apr 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> ...The best scenario for him is if Nibali and Wiggins are more concerned with each other and the Giro than this race. Neither may want to really show how good they are at this stage and may be prepared to stick precisely to pre-race plans..


 
I have no idea of course what will happen today, but still... the Wiggins of last year didn't spend time in hiding his form from his competitors (since he won every multiple-day race before the Tour in which he started)
So if he really will be content today to follow the rest and just see what that delivers, it - for me - is a sign that he will be much more fragile this year (in the Giro).


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## smutchin (19 Apr 2013)

I have a feeling Sky could well end up with the top two spots on the podium, Wiggo and Siutsou in either order. I can see Wiggo attacking to set up a Siutsou win à la Porte/Froome in the Criterium Internationale.


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## Hont (19 Apr 2013)

The Couch said:


> the Wiggins of last year didn't spend time in hiding his form from his competitors (since he won every multiple-day race before the Tour in which he started)


 
I think a large part of that was Sky's plan to get him used to being the leader, having to do all the press stuff etc and extra pressure. I actually think he's climbing better than last year - the reason he is not winning stage races is he hasn't done any with an ITT in them. He skipped Paris-Nice remember, which was the only stage race he had won by this time last year.


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## tigger (19 Apr 2013)

Its hard to say isn't it. Wiggin's main aim will not be to lose time to Nibali. If he can deliver a psychological blow then thats all the better I'd guess. With Wiggin's diesel style, I think Nibali is better leaving this right to till the end, so Wiggins doesn't have enough time to claw him back. I think this could be a damaging tactic in the Giro itself with so many bonus seconds on offer.


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## rich p (19 Apr 2013)

Nibali does what he does with no chase from Wiggins yet.


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## rich p (19 Apr 2013)

....then just claws his way back as he does!


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## rich p (19 Apr 2013)

A problem with Wiggins' gears and a new bike


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## smutchin (19 Apr 2013)

Wiggo's electronics have let him down - just threw his bike at a wall!

Back on a spare bike and chasing hard...

Nibali off the front with Tiralongo. This is cracking stuff!


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## rich p (19 Apr 2013)

most unfortunate but he's busting a gut to catch up


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## Radchenister (19 Apr 2013)

Unfortunate yep, will he blow up now though, this is a good indicator of form but wonder if he'll hold it back?


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## raindog (19 Apr 2013)

Too much crap on these latest bikes. Electronic gears are nothing but a breakdown waiting to happen.


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## smutchin (19 Apr 2013)

Astana Corporate Bullies!


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## rich p (19 Apr 2013)

All good training though!


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## rich p (19 Apr 2013)

tratto piu ripido!


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## smutchin (19 Apr 2013)

Nibali looking on top form.


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## rich p (19 Apr 2013)

It has spoilt the event as a spectacle somewhat though and left us not knowing what Wiggins could have done


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## rich p (19 Apr 2013)

Bouet 3.13 back as Nibali passes the flamme rouge


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## Radchenister (19 Apr 2013)

Don't hold your breath!


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## tigger (19 Apr 2013)

rich p said:


> It has spoilt the event as a spectacle somewhat though and left us not knowing what Wiggins could have done


 
Wigins finished 1.37 down. How long did the mechanical take? Do we think this could act as a useful marker?


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## smutchin (19 Apr 2013)

Game over for Bouet. Unlucky.

Great ride by Nibali though.


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## Crackle (19 Apr 2013)

Bouet 3rd, excellent for him


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## deptfordmarmoset (19 Apr 2013)

smutchin said:


> Wiggo's electronics have let him down - just threw his bike at a wall!
> 
> Back on a spare bike and chasing hard...
> 
> Nibali off the front with Tiralongo. This is cracking stuff!


I just managed to catch throwing his bike away while doing other stuff. It looked like the bike wasn't going to take such treatment - it just rolled away and parked itself upright against the wall.


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## smutchin (19 Apr 2013)

raindog said:


> Electronic gears are nothing but a breakdown waiting to happen.


 
Yeah, they should switch back to reliable mechanical shifting like Andy Schleck.


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## Radchenister (19 Apr 2013)

The Pinarello incident is doing the rounds on Facebook aready (link obtained via Cycling News).


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=O1uZ2M9f6Iw


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## beastie (19 Apr 2013)

It appeared as if Wiggins was having "issues" with the bike right from the start of.the climb. He dropped right back then moved up. Later he slowed right down and then had to kick back up to the lead group. Having said that he lost about 45 seconds with the mechanical and the rest on the road. He didn't appear to be on the rivet all the way up though.


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## Crackle (19 Apr 2013)

Report from Teamsky site

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,28768_8653232,00.html


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## Pedrosanchezo (19 Apr 2013)

Shame for Wiggo though he showed some pretty impressive form. Niballi looked most likely but all in all it is shaping up to be an epic Giro. I really want Wiggo to win but i think Niballi is just going to be too good this year. 

Or maybe Schleck will surprise us all and win the Giro, the Tour and the Vuelta.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Apr 2013)

Good win for Nibali, and great for Bouet but I don't think that result told us anything about the Giro in the end, because of the mechical issues for Wiggins.


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## rich p (20 Apr 2013)

I think it showed that Nibali is favourite for the giro, apart from the ITT aspect. We seem to be reducing it to a two-horse race - do you think that's premature or do you fancy an outsider?


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## Strathlubnaig (20 Apr 2013)

A lot can happen over 3 weeks, dont rule out others just yet ! (not sure who though ha ha)


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## thom (20 Apr 2013)

rich p said:


> I think it showed that Nibali is favourite for the giro, apart from the ITT aspect. We seem to be reducing it to a two-horse race - do you think that's premature or do you fancy an outsider?


Premature. Someone else will rock up with good form too - this was a much reduced field of pro-tour teams. Wiggins is obviously closer than this result predicts.
SKY I think deliberately sent a weaker team than what will accompany Wiggins in the Giro, deliberately giving him practice being isolated and to send the signal to other teams they'd have to take the initiative themselves. The Giro won't be like that in reality.


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## Pedrosanchezo (20 Apr 2013)

Slight outside bets could be Rodriguez, Hesjedal and maybe the likes of Gesink. Still can't see past the top two of Wiggins and Nibali. 
One has to wonder how much stronger team sky would be with Froome pacing Wiggins as he did at the TDF. Seems like there are either issues between the two or Sky is being very ambitious by creating two teams with two leaders. A few comparisons have been drawn to 86 (i think) with The Badger and LeMond, RE the Tour.


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## raindog (20 Apr 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> A few comparisons have been drawn to 86 (i think) with The Badger and LeMond, RE the Tour.


Surely it's not certain that Brad will ride the Tour?


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## Crackle (20 Apr 2013)

thom said:


> Premature. Someone else will rock up with good form too - this was a much reduced field of pro-tour teams. Wiggins is obviously closer than this result predicts.
> SKY I think deliberately sent a weaker team than what will accompany Wiggins in the Giro, deliberately giving him practice being isolated and to send the signal to other teams they'd have to take the initiative themselves. The Giro won't be like that in reality.


 
Yeah this. It also seems they've deliberately kept his build up low key and his form a little bit hidden. I can't see him being so isolated so far down a climb after a mechanical in the Giro.


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## Radchenister (20 Apr 2013)

Two minded on his form, I am presuming SKY / Wiggo, would have decided to finish solidly but not show any cards as that one was all but lost after the mechanicals, so why not just keep it under wraps for now - but what do I know? Looking forward to finding out.


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## thom (20 Apr 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Two minded on his form, I am presuming SKY / Wiggo, would have decided to finish solidly but not show any cards as that one was all but lost after the mechanicals, so why not just keep it under wraps for now - but what do I know? Looking forward to finding out.


Yes - certainly we can say that Nibali and Astana have learned something from SKY and have collectively adopted similar tactics with regards to team formation climbing. That is doffing the hat to SKY and it will be good to see how SKY cope with team that tries to take them on as one.


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## 400bhp (20 Apr 2013)

stupid bloody bike

Good to see Evans up there too. Do we know which grand tour he's going to do this year?


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## beastie (20 Apr 2013)

400bhp said:


> stupid bloody bike
> 
> Good to see Evans up there too. Do we know which grand tour he's going to do this year?



I believe he is riding the giro, and then le tour. I think he is targeting the tour though. Is dirty Bertie not on the same strategy?
edit Pretty sure Contador is not riding the Giro.


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## 400bhp (20 Apr 2013)

Thought:

Are teams not allowed to put power meters on replacement bikes?

If they are then that is an epic fail.


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## Crackle (20 Apr 2013)

400bhp said:


> Thought:
> 
> Are teams not allowed to put power meters on replacement bikes?
> 
> If they are then that is an epic fail.


Explain: I don't get the point?

His reserve bike had a 39 on, not a 36, so he was overgeared when he hit the 20% sections, which was more or less when he caught everyone.


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## 400bhp (20 Apr 2013)

His replacement bike didn't have a power meter, so instead of using that to determine effort, he had to do it by feel. Hence as well as being at a disadvantage by losing time he was at a disadvantage because of the lack of a power meter.

Seems fail x 2 - I didn't know he had a 39 as a replacement.


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## Crackle (20 Apr 2013)

400bhp said:


> His replacement bike didn't have a power meter, so instead of using that to determine effort, he had to do it by feel. Hence as well as being at a disadvantage by losing time he was at a disadvantage because of the lack of a power meter.
> 
> Seems fail x 2 - I didn't know he had a 39 as a replacement.


 
I can't find the link now but Sky did emphasise that they don't ride exclusively with power meters in order that riders can respond on feel. Also, interestingly, they say the TV broadcast equipment interferes with the power meter readout!


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## 400bhp (20 Apr 2013)

Fine, BUT, Brad was riding a bike with a power meter on that day. So, IMO, a replacement bike should be like-for-like.

What am I missing? Is a replacement bike sometimes set up differently just in case things aren't going too well with the rider?


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## Slaav (20 Apr 2013)

400bhp said:


> Fine, BUT, Brad was riding a bike with a power meter on that day. So, IMO, a replacement bike should be like-for-like.
> 
> What am I missing? Is a replacement bike sometimes set up differently just in case things aren't going too well with the rider?


 
Interesting thought.

Now, as team leader/DS, do we allow fro a mechanical ONLY - so identical bike for our riders? Or do we allow for a monumental issue and have a SLIGHLY different gearing in case the rider himself simply says - 'I need more/less'? Presumably the prep and planning has been done so they know what is needed on that specific day; if so, like for like replacements.
VMAS (or whatever it was on page 59) which means 'climbing power' - as in meters gained (alt) per hour? A combo of the two should make allowances surely?


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## Crackle (20 Apr 2013)

400bhp said:


> Fine, BUT, Brad was riding a bike with a power meter on that day. So, IMO, a replacement bike should be like-for-like.
> 
> What am I missing? Is a replacement bike sometimes set up differently just in case things aren't going too well with the rider?


 
Found the report

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-gear-problems-cost-him-dear-at-the-giro-del-trentino

Why it wasn't set up the same I don't know as they'd clearly identified what was needed on his primary bike


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## Strathlubnaig (21 Apr 2013)

it was a tough break for wiggins having the mechanical issues, but throwing the bike away, riding straight to the bus at the end and then sneaking off in a car to avoid the press, well maybe it should be Brat Wiggins, not the best way to deal with a problem.


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## raindog (21 Apr 2013)

Crackle said:


> Found the report
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-gear-problems-cost-him-dear-at-the-giro-del-trentino
> 
> Why it wasn't set up the same I don't know as they'd clearly identified what was needed on his primary bike


Thanks for that link - interesting stuff. And you're right - his spare bike being set up completely differently beggars belief. WTF were Sky thinking?


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## rich p (21 Apr 2013)

As I've said somewhere else on here previously, much as I like Wiggins' refreshing attitude and forthright, plain-talking views, his behaviour does veer toward petulant and childish sometimes.


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## raindog (21 Apr 2013)

I've only just noticed this comment under the CN article
_"Marginal gains offset by major losses"_


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## raindog (21 Apr 2013)

rich p said:


> As I've said somewhere else on here previously, much as I like Wiggins' refreshing attitude and forthright, plain-talking views, his behaviour does veer toward petulant and childish sometimes.


In that docu, didn't his wife say that off the bike Brad was a lovely bloke, but on the bike he was a twat? Or words to that effect.


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## aces_up1504 (21 Apr 2013)

raindog said:


> In that docu, didn't his wife say that off the bike Brad was a lovely bloke, but on the bike he was a twat? Or words to that effect.


 
To be the best in the world, you have got to have that mentality. His tactics and race were ruined by something he did not have control
Of. If think most people would be pissed.


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## Booyaa (21 Apr 2013)

raindog said:


> In that docu, didn't his wife say that off the bike Brad was a lovely bloke, but on the bike he was a twat? Or words to that effect.


That wouldn't be a surprise, many top sportsmen used to be like that. It seems nowadays that many sportsmen are right twats away from the sport as well.


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## Pedrosanchezo (21 Apr 2013)

raindog said:


> Surely it's not certain that Brad will ride the Tour?


Wiggins has said he will support Froome but i am not 100% convinced he will even ride. From Sky's point of view, Wiggins' inclusion is a must. He provides a 2nd option should something happen to Froome regarding form, illness or accident. Sky don't strike me as the sort to put all eggs in one basket. Maybe in the past but they tend to learn from past mistakes quickly. 

In no way does splitting Froome and Wiggins up make Sky stronger - unless they have personal issues which cannot be resolved. 
If Wiggins rides then i would think he will not be happy playing wing man, especially if he doesn't succeed in the Giro.


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## smutchin (21 Apr 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Slight outside bets could be Rodriguez, Hesjedal and maybe the likes of Gesink. Still can't see past the top two of Wiggins and Nibali.



I've not been impressed with Hesjedal's early season form but looking at him in the LBL right now, he seems to be hitting his peak at exactly the right time.


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## Pedrosanchezo (21 Apr 2013)

smutchin said:


> I've not been impressed with Hesjedal's early season form but looking at him in the LBL right now, he seems to be hitting his peak at exactly the right time.


Definitely a possibility with the current form and also with his exceptional team mate Dan Martin.


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## beastie (21 Apr 2013)

Booyaa said:


> That wouldn't be a surprise, many top sportsmen used to be like that. It seems nowadays that many sportsmen are right twats away from the sport as well.


Surely most people are different at work than in their personal lives. I certainly am.

Edit . This was a reply to the post quoted by Booyaa. Doh


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## themosquitoking (21 Apr 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Wiggins has said he will support Froome but i am not 100% convinced he will even ride. From Sky's point of view, Wiggins' inclusion is a must. He provides a 2nd option should something happen to Froome regarding form, illness or accident. Sky don't strike me as the sort to put all eggs in one basket. Maybe in the past but they tend to learn from past mistakes quickly.
> 
> In no way does splitting Froome and Wiggins up make Sky stronger - unless they have personal issues which cannot be resolved.
> If Wiggins rides then i would think he will not be happy playing wing man, especially if he doesn't succeed in the Giro.


 
I'm not a big cycling historian but how many times has the current champion not ridden the following year? I can imagine sky wanting froome and wiggins riding just in case one of them can't complete but surely as current champ Wiggins will be there in whatever capacity.


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## Pedrosanchezo (21 Apr 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> I'm not a big cycling historian but how many times has the current champion not ridden the following year? I can imagine sky wanting froome and wiggins riding just in case one of them can't complete but surely as current champ Wiggins will be there in whatever capacity.


He missed Paris Nice and i believe he is missing the Dauphine criterium also. Both of which he won in 2012. I don't think he is into repeating and if he is not going to compete for the jersey then he may not ride the race at all. Just my opinion.
Time will tell.

I also think Cadel Evans wished he bailed on the 2012 Tour after such a successful 2011.


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## Beebo (22 Apr 2013)

Anyone know how easy it is to "jam" the signal frequency on electric gears? This could be a whole new area of cheating, with teams trying to jam revival teams frequency?


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## smutchin (22 Apr 2013)

Beebo said:


> Anyone know how easy it is to "jam" the signal frequency on electric gears? This could be a whole new area of cheating, with teams trying to jam revival teams frequency?


 
Current electronic gear systems are wired, aren't they?


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## 400bhp (22 Apr 2013)

smutchin said:


> Current electronic gear systems are wired, aren't they?


 
Need to keep an eye on suspicious looking antennas poking out of the back of riders' jerseys in future.


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## Hont (22 Apr 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> I'm not a big cycling historian but how many times has the current champion not ridden the following year?


More times than you would think. During my lifetime, off the top of my head, Tour de France only....

By choice: Merckx skipped '73, Armstrong retired after '05*. Not by choice: Pantani didn't race '99 (doping issues?), Lemond didn't race '87 (had been shot), Contador missed '08 (team not invited). Roche missed '88 (knee injury?) I'm sure there's a couple more but I can't be arsed to Wiki it.

*Technically no-one won that edition blah blah blah


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## themosquitoking (22 Apr 2013)

Hont said:


> More times than you would think. During my lifetime, off the top of my head, Tour de France only....
> 
> By choice: Merckx skipped '73, Armstrong retired after '05*. Not by choice: Pantani didn't race '99 (doping issues?), Lemond didn't race '87 (had been shot), Contador missed '08 (team not invited). Roche missed '88 (knee injury?) I'm sure there's a couple more but I can't be arsed to Wiki it.
> 
> *Technically no-one won that edition blah blah blah


I think out of that list Lemond wins best excuse. Was it drug related shenanigans the reason Contador's team wasn't invited to defend in 08?


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## Hont (22 Apr 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> Was it drug related shenanigans the reason Contador's team wasn't invited to defend in 08?


Yes, the fallout from Operation Puerto + Vinokourov's positive from 2007 iirc.


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## oldroadman (22 Apr 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> it was a tough break for wiggins having the mechanical issues, but throwing the bike away, riding straight to the bus at the end and then sneaking off in a car to avoid the press, well maybe it should be Brat Wiggins, not the best way to deal with a problem.


 
An uninformed comment. As a rider, if you have had problems at a critical time, the best plan is get away from the loony reporters immediately, because someone will stick a mic or voice recorder under your nose and ask a stupid or provative question just to get a response. Wrong response and it haunts you for ages. Much better to disappear and say nothing. Imagine some reporter in a footy dressing room trying it with players "why did you let that own goal (etc) in". More likely to get a black eye than an answer. Yet as riders we are expected to be available to these people seconds after a finish. That's how it is far a rider, and if you are mightily p'eed off, then best say nothing. That is not being a Brat (silly...), it's a sensible tactic.


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## 400bhp (22 Apr 2013)

So really, Mercxx was the only skipper (snigger) by choice?

I should imagine there will be a lot of pressure by the current tour organisers to get the current winner to participate.


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## thom (22 Apr 2013)

400bhp said:


> So really, Mercxx was the only skipper (snigger) by choice?
> 
> I should imagine there will be a lot of pressure by the current tour organisers to get the current winner to participate.


Oh I don't know - they set up the route last year to be favourable to someone like Wiggins. It is different this year. ASO aren't so stupid as to be ignorant of the relative disadvantage this gives him and that even within his own team he would be unlikely to be the most successful rider.


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## smutchin (22 Apr 2013)

Seems to be certain Italian races have been attracting bigger and better fields than certain French races this year - eg Paris-Nice vs Tirreno-Adriatico - and races like Strade Bianche and Roma Maxima have raised their profile (or are actually new races, kind of, in the latter case) seemingly with the aim of competing with the Belgian one-day race season. It has also been suggested that this year's Giro route was designed with the aim of drawing Wiggins much like last year's TdF. This seems to have coincided with Acquarone taking over as organiser, but is no coincidence. 

Don't know where they're getting the money from though - I thought Italy was broke.


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## rich p (22 Apr 2013)

smutchin said:


> Don't know where they're getting the money from though - I thought Italy was broke.


The reason given last year for the northern-based Giro was financial too but this year it is pan-Italian. They must have found some a load of old lire under the mattress.


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## kedab (22 Apr 2013)

oldroadman said:


> An uninformed comment. As a rider, if you have had problems at a critical time, the best plan is get away from the loony reporters immediately, because someone will stick a mic or voice recorder under your nose and ask a stupid or provative question just to get a response. Wrong response and it haunts you for ages. Much better to disappear and say nothing. Imagine some reporter in a footy dressing room trying it with players "why did you let that own goal (etc) in". More likely to get a black eye than an answer. Yet as riders we are expected to be available to these people seconds after a finish. That's how it is far a rider, and if you are mightily p'eed off, then best say nothing. That is not being a Brat (silly...), it's a sensible tactic.


 
bradley does like to chuck his bikes about  he was quite nice to that one. i've seen him pick up a bike that's had a mechanical and launch it in to a ditch! was it on the 2011 tour? i remember thinking oh bradders, just give it to me if you don't want it any more!


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## Hont (23 Apr 2013)

400bhp said:


> So really, Mercxx was the only skipper (snigger) by choice?
> 
> I should imagine there will be a lot of pressure by the current tour organisers to get the current winner to participate.


Well they weren't that fussed when Merckx skipped '73, but then everyone was fed up with him winning everything.

I forgot Ocana in '74 (without a team), Hinault in '82 and Fignon '84 (both injuries). The 80s were a bad time for knee injuries it seems.


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## Strathlubnaig (24 Apr 2013)

oldroadman said:


> An uninformed comment. As a rider, if you have had problems at a critical time, the best plan is get away from the loony reporters immediately, because someone will stick a mic or voice recorder under your nose and ask a stupid or provative question just to get a response. Wrong response and it haunts you for ages. Much better to disappear and say nothing. Imagine some reporter in a footy dressing room trying it with players "why did you let that own goal (etc) in". More likely to get a black eye than an answer. Yet as riders we are expected to be available to these people seconds after a finish. That's how it is far a rider, and if you are mightily p'eed off, then best say nothing. That is not being a Brat (silly...), it's a sensible tactic.


Unfortunately the lad has got previous... 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVBoPY6wfrc
(near the end)


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## smutchin (24 Apr 2013)

Didn't he do something similar in the Tour of Romandie final stage time trial last year too?


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## thom (24 Apr 2013)

smutchin said:


> Didn't he do something similar in the Tour of Romandie final stage time trial last year too?


Au contraire, 36 secs :



It was notable for his lack of reaction in fact - i could not find an actual clip


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## smutchin (24 Apr 2013)

thom said:


> It was notable for his lack of reaction in fact - i could not find an actual clip


 
Thanks, I knew I remembered something happening but couldn't remember the details. Very interesting though... The fact that despite the mechanical mishap he went on to win that stage and the whole race suggests that perhaps he does better when he keeps his head.

In the Trentino, he seemed to burn himself out by frantically chasing down Nibali after he got back on his bike. Maybe if he'd kept cool and done his usual trick of closing the gap more steadily, it might have panned out differently for him. If only he had a power meter on his spare bike...


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## thom (24 Apr 2013)

smutchin said:


> Thanks, I knew I remembered something happening but couldn't remember the details. Very interesting though... The fact that despite the mechanical mishap he went on to win that stage and the whole race suggests that perhaps he does better when he keeps his head.
> 
> In the Trentino, he seemed to burn himself out by frantically chasing down Nibali after he got back on his bike. Maybe if he'd kept cool and done his usual trick of closing the gap more steadily, it might have panned out differently for him. If only he had a power meter on his spare bike...


I think the mental difference is he fears Nibali now the SKY team can't be counted on to dominate over the parcours of the Giro like they did at the tour last year. With 2 Italian stage race wins going into the Giro, Nibali is maybe in the equivalent position Brad was last year with respect to the TdF.


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## rich p (24 Apr 2013)

To be fair to Brad, giving your equal a minute start and on a bike with gearing too high, panic pedalling was his only option! shoot or bust, as the commoners say


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## tigger (24 Apr 2013)

I don't think Wiggins has done a competitive Time Trial this year yet? So no clues here either. I'm hoping he's just been keeping his powder incredibly dry.


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## smutchin (24 Apr 2013)

thom said:


> I think the mental difference is he fears Nibali now the SKY team can't be counted on to dominate over the parcours of the Giro like they did at the tour last year. With 2 Italian stage race wins going into the Giro, Nibali is maybe in the equivalent position Brad was last year with respect to the TdF.


 
Yes, Nibali is on top form and Astana look really strong overall. Tiralongo is a pretty useful foil to Siutsou.


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## oldroadman (24 Apr 2013)

smutchin said:


> Yes, Nibali is on top form and Astana look really strong overall. Tiralongo is a pretty useful foil to Siutsou.


 All of which suggest that the Giro will be a very interesting and revealing race. I don't agree with Thom, though, there is no reason for BW to be afraid of anyone, but certainly a need to be alert to tactics and a confident team. All makes for good racing when there are plenty of possibilities.


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## smutchin (24 Apr 2013)

rich p said:


> To be fair to Brad, giving your equal a minute start and on a bike with gearing too high, panic pedalling was his only option! s*** or bust, as the commoners say


 
I'm not sure I agree... but then I expect Brad is probably better placed than me to know what he needs to do in that situation. Still, I do wonder if he might have approached the chase slightly differently if he a) had a power meter on his spare bike, and b) had Sean Yates jabbering away in his ear giving him instructions. It's not that he _can't_ ride on instinct - he's done it often enough in the past, with much success - but perhaps he's got too used to doing it by numbers?

You're right, of course, that the gearing thing probably didn't help. And catching Nibali on current form was always going to be a tall order however he approached it.


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## raindog (24 Apr 2013)

I thought the reason Brad didn't get back on after the electronic failure, was that the spare bike had standard gearing?
I can't believe having "Sean Yates jabbering away in his ear" would have helped.


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## thom (24 Apr 2013)

oldroadman said:


> All of which suggest that the Giro will be a very interesting and revealing race. I don't agree with Thom, though, there is no reason for BW to be afraid of anyone, but certainly a need to be alert to tactics and a confident team. All makes for good racing when there are plenty of possibilities.


Perhaps fear is too strong but I do think he'll be more nervous with regards to his chances in comparison to the TdF last year. My impression is the giro will be less controllable than the tour, that Nibali goes better up the really steep stuff than Brad and that Astana have prepared well to support Nibali.
The sum total is that Nibali would be my "favourite" although I want Brad to win. If he does, it will be a superior achievement to the Tour, in my opinion.
Anyway, we have a spanking new thread for such speculation now ;-)


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## Strathlubnaig (24 Apr 2013)

oldroadman said:


> An uninformed comment. As a rider, if you have had problems at a critical time, the best plan is get away from the loony reporters immediately, because someone will stick a mic or voice recorder under your nose and ask a stupid or provative question just to get a response. Wrong response and it haunts you for ages. Much better to disappear and say nothing. Imagine some reporter in a footy dressing room trying it with players "why did you let that own goal (etc) in". More likely to get a black eye than an answer. Yet as riders we are expected to be available to these people seconds after a finish. That's how it is far a rider, and if you are mightily p'eed off, then best say nothing. That is not being a Brat (silly...), it's a sensible tactic.


good job he does not pay for his bikes then ... 4m 30s 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeQKRpJNOB8


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## oldroadman (26 Apr 2013)

thom said:


> Perhaps fear is too strong but I do think he'll be more nervous with regards to his chances in comparison to the TdF last year. My impression is the giro will be less controllable than the tour, that Nibali goes better up the really steep stuff than Brad and that Astana have prepared well to support Nibali.
> The sum total is that Nibali would be my "favourite" although I want Brad to win. If he does, it will be a superior achievement to the Tour, in my opinion.
> Anyway, we have a spanking new thread for such speculation now ;-)


 
Agreed on all paragraphs - good analysis.


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