# Nearly taken out by Sportive nutcases



## G3CWI (13 Sep 2015)

So there I was cycling along a main road with lots of Sportive riders heading in the other direction. Then I come up to a side road where they are joining the main road. A nob at the front shouts "clear" when I am about 10 metres from the junction (in clear view and cycling fairly fast) and like sheep riders start to follow - straight into my path. Cue very loud annoyed shouting from me as I pass by the shocked Sportivists who engage in emergency unclipping.

The same happened to my mate who was 200m behind me.

There were hundreds and hundreds of them and clearly some had not got much of a clue about how to turn right onto a main road. Very annoying indeed. On our ride back I noticed that they seemed to have marshalls at each junction - but from my experience some were doing a p..ss poor job.

Spleen now vented. Thanks.


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## screenman (13 Sep 2015)

Pretend races, enough said.


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## winjim (13 Sep 2015)

Complain to the organiser?
They've done what a lot of motorists do, look out for cars, but not expected a cyclist, so not registered you.


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## Hacienda71 (13 Sep 2015)

Manchester 100 I suspect.


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## jefmcg (13 Sep 2015)

G3CWI said:


> . A nob at the front shouts "clear"


Note to sportive riders: Don't shout "clear" to other riders. More importantly don't listen to someone you don't know shouting "clear". 

When the ride leader on a Sunday morning club ride shouts clear, you can trust him. If your trust turns out to be ill placed, you can sue his sorry arse (he'll have 3rd party insurance). When a random sportive rider shouts "clear" ... well, you may just as well obey the _instructions_ of a driver who flashes his headlights at you. He isn't the one who will be sued if you crash into something.


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## Hip Priest (13 Sep 2015)

jefmcg said:


> When the ride leader on a Sunday morning club ride shouts clear, you can trust him. If your trust turns out to be ill placed, you can sue his sorry arse (he'll have 3rd party insurance).



Not sure about that.


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## blazed (13 Sep 2015)

screenman said:


> Pretend races, enough said.


I think you need to learn the definition of racing.


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## 400bhp (13 Sep 2015)

Hip Priest said:


> Not sure about that.



+1


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## Hip Priest (13 Sep 2015)

blazed said:


> I think you need to learn the definition of racing.



The definition of racing is 'a contest of speed'.

Now tell me that Screenman is wrong...


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## Cuchilo (13 Sep 2015)

Hip Priest said:


> Not sure about that.


I think the point was , when a mate shouts clear he / she means it as they quite like your company on a ride . If a random stranger or your wife shouts clear its probably better to check for yourself .


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## blazed (13 Sep 2015)

Hip Priest said:


> The definition of racing is 'a contest of speed'.
> 
> Now tell me that Screenman is wrong...



Racing is competing against others to be the fastest. If there's 1000 people in a sportive and 100 of them are treating it as a race, for them 100 it's as much a race as any other.

For it to be a pretend race would mean those guys are pretending to be competing against each other.


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## Crandoggler (13 Sep 2015)

You're being a tool. You know damn well what they're trying to say.


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## ColinJ (13 Sep 2015)

Hacienda71 said:


> Manchester 100 I suspect.


I used to ride the Manchester 100 every year and saw some really stupid things going on. Half the problems were caused by inexperienced cyclists doing crazy things like suddenly stopping dead to answer their phone in the middle of a group of riders. The other crazies were very fit club riders who should have known better, doing things like sprinting through red lights on the run back to Wythenshawe Park, often through tiny gaps in the cross-traffic. I was convinced that I would see somebody killed on that event one day so I stopped riding it.


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## screenman (13 Sep 2015)

What is that thing I used to check my engine oil level called.


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## Cuchilo (13 Sep 2015)

screenman said:


> What is that thing I used to check my engine oil level called.


A self-gratification artist ?


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## Dan B (13 Sep 2015)

screenman said:


> What is that thing I used to check my engine oil level called.


OBD-2?


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## glasgowcyclist (13 Sep 2015)

screenman said:


> What is that thing I used to check my engine oil level called.



Your chauffeur?

GC


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## ColinJ (13 Sep 2015)

screenman said:


> What is that thing I used to check my engine oil level called.


A garage mechanic?


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## Hip Priest (13 Sep 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> I think the point was , when a mate shouts clear he / she means it as they quite like your company on a ride . If a random stranger or your wife shouts clear its probably better to check for yourself .



Well, duh.

But if it turns out they're wrong, I can't sue them. And the poster claimed specifically that you could sue a ride leader through their BC insurance, which I felt was a point worth challenging.


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## Cuchilo (13 Sep 2015)

Hip Priest said:


> Well, duh.
> 
> But if it turns out they're wrong, I can't sue them.


You could try . Look into it , it may keep you busy for a few hours


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## Hip Priest (13 Sep 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> You could try . Look into it , it may keep you busy for a few hours



No you're alright, I'll just keep taking responsibility for my own actions, if that's all the same.


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## ColinJ (13 Sep 2015)

I am more bothered about getting killed than being able to claim off people if I survive, so I will carry on checking for myself!


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## Racing roadkill (14 Sep 2015)

One of the many reasons I dislike Sportives.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (14 Sep 2015)

Clear is only clear when the ride leader enters the junction/turn. That doesn't mean it's clear when you get there 20 bikes later. 

I'd never trust a passenger in my car to tell me the road is clear.. It's not their car wrecked or insurance claimed off!


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## blazed (14 Sep 2015)

There's no better cycling than at a sportive. Where else do you get the combination of pretending to race and suing people for shouting clear?

I remember at the chiltern 100 somebody pretended to sue someone. That was classic.


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## Richard A Thackeray (14 Sep 2015)

It was the same, when there was the (supporting) sportive, with the 'Tour de Yorkshire' 
I rode up, from the (Wakefield) start on Sunday, to watch the climb of East Chevin, heading up through Leeds, past Yeadon Airport (Leeds-Bradford), & got caught up in it, as they turned down Harrogate Road, towards the cross-roads with Leeds Road (A660), towards Poole-in-Wharfedale

It was scary, bikes overtaking on both sides, over-taking cars downhill on double solid whites!! 
I'll hazard a guess that the traffic-lights on the cross-roads at the Dyneley Arms weren't treated correctly by quite a few 
I was extremely happy, & relieved, to turn left towards Otley 

The Chimps in the old PG Tips adverts were far better riders than some I saw

What I saw, even in that one case, could make a case for limiting numbers/sanctions on Sportives, if seen by a Senior Police Officer, or local MP


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## sidevalve (14 Sep 2015)

Just goes to prove there are total dicks in and on every form of transport and dumb ass boy [and girl] racers aren't confined to cars
One point though - suing is all very well if you aint dead


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## subaqua (14 Sep 2015)

screenman said:


> What is that thing I used to check my engine oil level called.


on my Volvo its called a sensor and a display screen


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## MontyVeda (14 Sep 2015)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> ...
> 
> I'd never trust a passenger in my car to tell me the road is clear.. It's not their car wrecked or insurance claimed off!



as a non-driver but frequent passenger, it baffles me when the driver asks me if it's clear.... "you're driving... you tell me!"


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## Pope (14 Sep 2015)

MontyVeda said:


> as a non-driver but frequent passenger, it baffles me when the driver asks me if it's clear.... "you're driving... you tell me!"



If you're in the passenger seat, you're blocking the view to the left, as the driver looks through the window next to your head to see what's coming.


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## MontyVeda (14 Sep 2015)

Pope said:


> If you're in the passenger seat, you're blocking the view to the left, as the driver looks through the window next to your head to see what's coming.


then it's up to the driver to move their head in order to see for themselves... they are after all in control of the vehicle. Most drivers don't rely on passenger information (IME), it's the few that do who worry me.


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## winjim (14 Sep 2015)

Pope said:


> If you're in the passenger seat, you're blocking the view to the left, as the driver looks through the window next to your head to see what's coming.


"Will you please just move your head back a touch?"

Easy.


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## Pope (14 Sep 2015)

MontyVeda said:


> then it's up to the driver to move their head in order to see for themselves... they are after all in control of the vehicle. Most drivers don't rely on passenger information (IME), it's the few that do who worry me.



It's being helpful as a passenger, there's no problem with that
When I'm a passenger, I let the driver know if the way is clear. When someone does the same for me, I acknowledge what they say but check for myself as I'm pulling out with caution. I hope this is okay for you.


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## Pope (14 Sep 2015)

winjim said:


> "Will you please just move your head back a touch?"
> 
> Easy.



Passenger: it's clear 
Driver: (looks himself to confirm, then pulls out) thanks 

Easy.


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## MontyVeda (14 Sep 2015)

Pope said:


> It's being helpful as a passenger, there's no problem with that
> When I'm a passenger, I let the driver know if the way is clear. When someone does the same for me, I acknowledge what they say but check for myself as I'm pulling out with caution. I hope this is okay for you.


that's fine... the driver is not relying on 3rd party info.


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## Pope (14 Sep 2015)

MontyVeda said:


> that's fine... the driver is not relying on 3rd party info.



Yes, it would be dangerous and irresponsible to be completely reliant on the passenger's information.


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## Cuchilo (14 Sep 2015)

I just close my eyes and go for it . Not crashed yet


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## snorri (14 Sep 2015)

Pope said:


> It's being helpful as a passenger, there's no problem with that
> When I'm a passenger, I let the driver know if the way is clear. .



AAargh! I have one occasional passenger like that, a driving enthusiast who blocks my view at every junction by leaning forward and peering left, thus delaying safe progress.
I don't know how he thinks I manage when driving solo.


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## Profpointy (14 Sep 2015)

snorri said:


> AAargh! I have one occasional passenger like that, a driving enthusiast who blocks my view at every junction by leaning forward and peering left, thus delaying safe progress.
> I don't know how he thinks I manage when driving solo.



my dad always did that - and on his one and only ride with me as a motorcycle pillion did a lot of leaning the wrong way too


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## blazed (14 Sep 2015)

Profpointy said:


> my dad always did that - and on his one and only ride with me as a motorcycle pillion did a lot of leaning the wrong way too



That would of pissed me off. I think I would of timed it so he leaned the wrong way into a lampost.

Boom, inheritance!


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## cisamcgu (14 Sep 2015)

My wife and I were merrily driving along behind a sportive a month or so ago. We were being patient, waiting for a safe place to overtake, and indeed chatting about how it must be nice to cycle in a group occasionally; eventually our left turn came up and we hadn't managed to overtake so we started slowing for the turn when some stupid nobber on a carbon bike came zooming up the inside of our car while we were indicating to turn left. There followed a hurried application of brakes and some choice words from Mrs cisamcgu (who _very _rarely swears) - he, the cyclist, didn't even seem to notice that he had almost been squished flat and carried on pedalling with his head down after his friends in the group ahead. Complete pillock and no doubt the cause of many a frustrated driver further along the road.


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## albion (14 Sep 2015)

Fix your rear indicator !


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## mjr (14 Sep 2015)

Pope said:


> If you're in the passenger seat, you're blocking the view to the left, as the driver looks through the window next to your head to see what's coming.


They really ought to design motor vehicles so that the driver has an unobstructed view of the world around them - this should be fixed before someone is killed, possibly the driver.


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## youngoldbloke (14 Sep 2015)

This thread reminded me of the following advice ........

_*How to stay safe around Sportivists. A Guide*

We want cyclists to stay safe when cycling near other vehicles, especially larger ones, like sportive riders. The safety advice is simple, “Stay safe, stay away”.

The “Stay safe, stay away” advice applies to cyclists when cycling near to moving Sportive riders or approaching any stationary Sportivists on the road, at junctions, traffic lights, on climbs or at feed stations. It's important to stay out of the risk zone and get into a position where the sportive rider can see you over their Garmin.

Follow our tips below to find out how to protect yourself.Safety tips

Cycle sensibly and assertively to help yourself. Stay safe, especially at traffic lights, junctions, corners, straight roads, climbs, descents, and anywhere that might be a Strava segment. 

* Recognise that sportive riders may not be able to see you, and are often oblivious to your presence.

*Never cycle up the left side of a sportivist riding in the middle of the road.

*Look out for sportive riders wandering left or right for no reason in front of you.

*If a rider comes up behind you, move forward enough merely to ensure you are in the sportivist’s field of vision and in no way to try and drop them. 

*In front of a Sportive rider is often the safest place to be. When you need to overtake a large sportivist, do so on the right-hand side at speed, so that the rider can’t keep up with you.Be Aware

The risk zone area can be the full length and width of the road, with the sportivist unable to see anyone cycling beside them on the left, or the right.

*Both new and experienced cyclists have been hurt in collisions with sportivists. This often happens when a sportive rider veers left to stop on a climb, to look at the view, to take off his gilet, to put on his arm-warmers or turn into a feed zone, hitting innocent cyclists on the nearside.

*Don't assume any large gap between sportivists is safe. When veering across the road for no reason large riders often wobble over to the right before they swing sharply across to the left to stop.


**Don't risk your life by trying to pass sportive riders when they are stopped at junctions, they may simply be confused by the event direction arrows and could suddenly turn either left or right. Wait until they have moved on, and turn the other way.

“Stay safe, stay away” is dedicated to reducing sportivists danger to cyclists through the use of awareness and reliability trials.*_


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## ColinJ (14 Sep 2015)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> It was the same, when there was the (supporting) sportive, with the 'Tour de Yorkshire'
> I rode up, from the (Wakefield) start on Sunday, to watch the climb of East Chevin, heading up through Leeds, past Yeadon Airport (Leeds-Bradford), & got caught up in it, as they turned down Harrogate Road, towards the cross-roads with Leeds Road (A660), towards Poole-in-Wharfedale
> 
> It was scary, bikes overtaking on both sides, over-taking cars downhill on double solid whites!!
> ...


INDEED!


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## glasgowcyclist (14 Sep 2015)

MontyVeda said:


> then it's up to the driver to move their head in order to see for themselves... they are after all in control of the vehicle. Most drivers don't rely on passenger information (IME), it's the few that do who worry me.



I used to work in an area with uncontrolled level crossings. When out with a colleague in the car, me as passenger, I used to wait until we were at one of these crossings and he had ascertained it was safe to cross. He always checked to his right again as we crossed, at which point I'd suddenly brace myself in my seat and go "_AAARGH_!" 
Worked every single time.

In my defence I was young and stupid(er) then.

GC


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## snorri (14 Sep 2015)

glasgowcyclist said:


> In my defence I was young and stupid(er) then.


A variation on that was for the passenger to say "All clear", then when the car had started to move..............................................................................................................................................................................".if your fast".


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## glasgowcyclist (14 Sep 2015)

snorri said:


> A variation on that was for the passenger to say "All clear", then when the car had started to move..............................................................................................................................................................................".if your fast".



Or, "All clear after the red car.... NO not THAT red car!"

GC


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## Pale Rider (14 Sep 2015)

I suspect some of the 'nutcase' cyclists in this thread will have been chasing Strava segments.

A few months ago a roadie told me there is a problem in his club with some members who take risks they would not otherwise take in pursuit of internet glory.


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## Hip Priest (14 Sep 2015)

Pale Rider said:


> I suspect some of the 'nutcase' cyclists in this thread will have been chasing Strava segments.
> 
> A few months ago a roadie told me there is a problem in his club with some members who take risks they would not otherwise take in pursuit of internet glory.



I've seen some Strava segments that cross quite tricky junctions. The sort of junctions where you need to make a full and proper assessment before moving out. I don't know why people set them up.


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## winjim (14 Sep 2015)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Or, "All clear after the red car.... NO not THAT red car!"
> 
> GC


I've driven with a passenger who, when it was safe to pull out, would shout "break!" as in "there's a break in the traffic". The homophone never occurred to her until I pointed out why I was stuck paralysed at the junction


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## Smokin Joe (14 Sep 2015)

It's the mob mentality. You get the same with groups of motorcyclists and crowds on their way to a football match. The "Safety in numbers" attitude kicks in and people think they can do what they like.

I stopped riding sportives because I found them embarrassing.


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## the_mikey (14 Sep 2015)

Hip Priest said:


> Well, duh.
> 
> But if it turns out they're wrong, I can't sue them. And the poster claimed specifically that you could sue a ride leader through their BC insurance, which I felt was a point worth challenging.



Also, it's not safe to assume that the semantics involved in the language and hand signals used by cyclists are the same as your own.


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## Richard A Thackeray (14 Sep 2015)

ColinJ said:


> INDEED!


Crikey!!!

Not a good event, for anyone

With incidents like that, for 2016 Tour de Yorkshire, they will probably either;
*1.* Have no Sportive (on YAS/Police 'advice'/request)
*2.* Have entry criteria (pack riding experience required)
*3.* Reduce numbers


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## mjr (14 Sep 2015)

Hip Priest said:


> I've seen some Strava segments that cross quite tricky junctions. The sort of junctions where you need to make a full and proper assessment before moving out. I don't know why people set them up.


They park at a nearby bowling green and want to reduce the number of cyclists.


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## Drago (14 Sep 2015)

I've noticed that some of the more reckless downhill strava suicide segments appear to have been deleted recently, including a couple t hat used footpaths for some of their length.


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## HertzvanRental (14 Sep 2015)

It's worth pointing out, I think, that whilst the aforementioned horror stories are regrettable, for the vast majority of sportive riders the aim is just to finish and have an enjoyable ride into the bargain.


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## Hip Priest (14 Sep 2015)

HertzvanRental said:


> It's worth pointing out, I think, that whilst the aforementioned horror stories are regrettable, for the vast majority of sportive riders the aim is just to finish and have an enjoyable ride into the bargain.



True. 

It's the minority that tarnish the rep of sportives.


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## Mad Doug Biker (15 Sep 2015)

MontyVeda said:


> as a non-driver but frequent passenger, it baffles me when the driver asks me if it's clear.... "you're driving... you tell me!"





MontyVeda said:


> then it's up to the driver to move their head in order to see for themselves... they are after all in control of the vehicle. Most drivers don't rely on passenger information (IME), it's the few that do who worry me.



Although, why would you say that it was ok to pull out when there was a car coming towards you?? Passengers generally are not stupid lemmings you know.

It doesn't happen very often, but certainly pulling out of our drive, nobbers have started parking on the pavement beside, blocking the view. A second pair of eyes is usually asked for as we might be able to see what the driver can't. The driver still checks if possible, but it is helpful nontheless.

Do you think passengers don't value their health? Do you think I would say it was ok with a car driving straight towards me or something similar??  Seriously?  
I don't care about the car, its true, but I care about the health of myself and everyone else in the car.



cisamcgu said:


> My wife and I were merrily driving along behind a sportive a month or so ago. We were being patient, waiting for a safe place to overtake, and indeed chatting about how it must be nice to cycle in a group occasionally; eventually our left turn came up and we hadn't managed to overtake so we started slowing for the turn when some stupid nobber on a carbon bike came zooming up the inside of our car while we were indicating to turn left. There followed a hurried application of brakes and some choice words from Mrs cisamcgu (who _very _rarely swears) - he, the cyclist, didn't even seem to notice that he had almost been squished flat and carried on pedalling with his head down after his friends in the group ahead. Complete pillock and no doubt the cause of many a frustrated driver further along the road.



People cycling two or three abreast with a car waiting to pass behind them gets on my t*ts, especially when the cyclists just look at you like you are a complete moron when you point this out to you.

Well done, yet another driver who might now be pi**ed off at cyclists. Well done!


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## summerdays (15 Sep 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Note to sportive riders: Don't shout "clear" to other riders. More importantly don't listen to someone you don't know shouting "clear".
> 
> When the ride leader on a Sunday morning club ride shouts clear, you can trust him. If your trust turns out to be ill placed, you can sue his sorry arse (he'll have 3rd party insurance). When a random sportive rider shouts "clear" ... well, you may just as well obey the _instructions_ of a driver who flashes his headlights at you. He isn't the one who will be sued if you crash into something.


I've always told my kids (once they were old enough), not to trust even me saying it's clear to cross a road and that I could make a mistake, so they should also look and check my decision.


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## Racing roadkill (15 Sep 2015)

Hip Priest said:


> I've seen some Strava segments that cross quite tricky junctions. The sort of junctions where you need to make a full and proper assessment before moving out. I don't know why people set them up.


Because it's the only way they are ever going to be a 'KOM'. Not only pathetic, but asking for trouble as well.


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## mjr (15 Sep 2015)

Hip Priest said:


> True.
> 
> It's the minority that tarnish the rep of sportives.


False.

It's the failure of both sportive organisers and traffic police to enforce their rules and traffic laws that tarnish the rep of sportives.


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## Racing roadkill (15 Sep 2015)

Smokin Joe said:


> It's the mob mentality. You get the same with groups of motorcyclists and crowds on their way to a football match. The "Safety in numbers" attitude kicks in and people think they can do what they like.
> 
> I stopped riding sportives because I found them embarrassing.



I find (with exceptions for the unprecedented closed road specials) they are just massively cringey. Definitely not for me.


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## HertzvanRental (15 Sep 2015)

Racing roadkill said:


> I find (with exceptions for the unprecedented closed road specials) they are just massively cringey. Definitely not for me.


"massively cringey." I do not understand.


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## Racing roadkill (15 Sep 2015)

Hip Priest said:


> True.
> 
> It's the minority that tarnish the rep of sportives.



I often find myself happening across Sportives, on my longer rides. Years ago, I tended to find that the tosser element, were in the minority. In the last couple of years, the posts have moved a bit, IMO.


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## mjr (15 Sep 2015)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> People cycling two or three abreast with a car waiting to pass behind them gets on my t*ts, especially when the cyclists just look at you like you are a complete moron when you point this out to you.


Well, you are being a complete moron if the road's not wide enough to overtake without changing lanes, aren't you? If they ride single file, it just doubles (or worse) the length you've got to overtake when the oncoming lane is clear.

Worse, some drivers take it as a signal to try to overtake without changing lane and anything oncoming usually results in a cyclist in the verge, at best. I've seen it happen. Unless it's clear or a wide road, it's better to stay in a car-like shape, like cars do.

If you're trying to tell cyclists to put themselves in danger, then well done, yet another cycling group who might now be pi**ed off at motorists. Well done!


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## Racing roadkill (15 Sep 2015)

HertzvanRental said:


> "massively cringey." I do not understand.


As one example, I was riding a route, which took me through a section of the new forest. I stopped at a cafe, en route. A sportive appeared on the bit of the road I was on. A couple of 'Warriors' pulled into the side of the road where I was stood locking my bike up. One (fully TDF Maillot Jaune'd up) had a puncture. He asked if he could use my pump. I let him have the pump. He pipes up "nah mate that's a f*****g Zefel pump" "I'll wait until someone with a proper pump turns up". Righto . Then his buddy pointed out that he didn't think he had enough gels to get him to the end, and asked if I had any going spare. "No" was my answer. Massive cringe fest right there.


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## mjr (15 Sep 2015)

HertzvanRental said:


> "massively cringey." I do not understand.


I'll give you another two examples. One, the plethora of fake "team kits" for groups that aren't racing clubs and many of which can't ride well (overlapping wheels, passing on the left, swamping, wobbling, no signals...) but good luck reporting them because they'll have their (usually similar) numbers partly obscured. It's amazing how they always seem to have a light or a garmin or unused device mount in the way of their number. It's like they know they're going to ride like a nob 

Two, seeing two riders standing on the verge, one wheel out, bathed in dry ice with one rider dancing around. I think they may have not used a CO2 inflater before, not used the cartridge jacket, frozen a finger to it and then partially unscrewed the inflater and released the rest of the cartridge. Oh well, a first aider was in sight behind...

I'm not surprised if these events are being left to nobbers. The organisers seem happy to take the short term money.


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## HertzvanRental (15 Sep 2015)

mjray said:


> I'll give you another two examples. One, the plethora of fake "team kits" for groups that aren't racing clubs and many of which can't ride well (overlapping wheels, passing on the left, swamping, wobbling, no signals...) but good luck reporting them because they'll have their (usually similar) numbers partly obscured. It's amazing how they always seem to have a light or a garmin or unused device mount in the way of their number. It's like they know they're going to ride like a nob
> 
> Two, seeing two riders standing on the verge, one wheel out, bathed in dry ice with one rider dancing around. I think they may have not used a CO2 inflater before, not used the cartridge jacket, frozen a finger to it and then partially unscrewed the inflater and released the rest of the cartridge. Oh well, a first aider was in sight behind...
> 
> I'm not surprised if these events are being left to nobbers. The organisers seem happy to take the short term money.


I understand completely what you are saying and, yes, these instances are embarrassing to witness. 
I have only cycled three sportives, so very limited experience, but I have found that the vast majority were just out for the challenge and/or an enjoyable ride, often in an unfamiliar location.


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## JMAG (15 Sep 2015)

HertzvanRental said:


> I have found that the vast majority were just out for the challenge and/or an enjoyable ride, often in an unfamiliar location.



I can do this if I turn right at the top of the road instead of left 

I have to admit I don't see the allure of sportives nor paying to ride my bike. I ride with a small local group, usually just 5 or 6 us with a coffee stop and a good chat.


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## HertzvanRental (15 Sep 2015)

JMAG said:


> I can do this if I turn right at the top of the road instead of left
> 
> I have to admit I don't see the allure of sportives nor paying to ride my bike. I ride with a small local group, usually just 5 or 6 us with a coffee stop and a good chat.


I think sportives are probably the new Marmite!


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## Dogtrousers (15 Sep 2015)

mjray said:


> Two, seeing two riders standing on the verge, one wheel out, bathed in dry ice with one rider dancing around. I think they may have not used a CO2 inflater before, not used the cartridge jacket, frozen a finger to it and then partially unscrewed the inflater and released the rest of the cartridge.


I have a CO2 inflator (irresistable Aldi bargain) in my toolkit. I've never used it - and if I ever do I fear that a situation like the one above may arise.

On a more general point - I can't see what on earth is wrong with "pretend racing". What's wrong with a bit of escapism? Behaving dangerously like a silly bugger - I don't approve of that. But pretend racing? Why ever not?


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## Pope (15 Sep 2015)

Racing roadkill said:


> As one example, I was riding a route, which took me through a section of the new forest. I stopped at a cafe, en route. A sportive appeared on the bit of the road I was on. A couple of 'Warriors' pulled into the side of the road where I was stood locking my bike up. One (fully TDF Maillot Jaune'd up) had a puncture. He asked if he could use my pump. I let him have the pump. He pipes up "nah mate that's a f*****g Zefel pump" "I'll wait until someone with a proper pump turns up". Righto . Then his buddy pointed out that he didn't think he had enough gels to get him to the end, and asked if I had any going spare. "No" was my answer. Massive cringe fest right there.



I think cringeworthy is too kind for the person who declined your pump. "Arrogant, ungrateful daffodil"


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## Racing roadkill (15 Sep 2015)

Pope said:


> I think "cringeworthy" is too kind for the person who considered your pump unworthy of him. "Arrogant, ungrateful t**t" would be far more appropriate.



The best thing about it is, that it's a brilliant little pump, equally as good as a "proper pump"


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## dodgy (15 Sep 2015)

Sportive: A ride where riders pretend to race
Audax: A ride where riders pretend not to race

Funny old world.


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## blazed (15 Sep 2015)

It's more than likely a crap pump and the guy was right to decline.

I use co2 pump purely for speed.

If I've had a mare and have no co2 left I blow into the tube, I can get 80 psi from my lungs.


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## vickster (15 Sep 2015)

blazed said:


> It's more than likely a crap pump and the guy was right to decline.
> 
> I use co2 pump purely for speed.
> 
> If I've had a mare and have no co2 left I blow into the tube, I can get 80 psi from my lungs.


The idiot should carry his own, ungrateful pillock


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## MontyVeda (15 Sep 2015)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Although, why would you say that it was ok to pull out when there was a car coming towards you?? Passengers generally are not stupid lemmings you know.
> 
> It doesn't happen very often, but certainly pulling out of our drive, nobbers have started parking on the pavement beside, blocking the view. A second pair of eyes is usually asked for as we might be able to see what the driver can't. The driver still checks if possible, but it is helpful nontheless.
> 
> ...



congratulations... you've completely missed the point.


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## Dogtrousers (15 Sep 2015)

Perhaps he was sponsored by Topeak, and feared that if the paparazzi caught him using a Zefal pump it could endanger his contract.


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## jefmcg (15 Sep 2015)

Hip Priest said:


> Not sure about that.



Happy to be told I am wrong. Well, maybe not "happy"...


A quick google shows that at least CTC offers activity provider insurance which covers ride leaders in case they are sued. I'd assumed all clubs would have such insurance. If you go out on a club outing and are injured because you followed the ride leader's instructions you'd have a pretty good case to sue them and the club. If they didn't have insurance, you could go after their assets.

I used to cox boats, and was happy to know that the club had insurance. Of course rowing injuries are nearly binary: very minor, or drowned. And it's also different that you should keep your eyes in the boat, ie looking backwards, in a coxed boat, so you have no choice but to blindly follow instructions. On a bike you can and should check for yourself and make your own decisions, as @summerdays said up thread. Of course, being the only one who decides to stop in a bunched ride can have its own consequences.


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## Racing roadkill (15 Sep 2015)

blazed said:


> It's more than likely a crap pump and the guy was right to decline.
> 
> I use co2 pump purely for speed.
> 
> If I've had a mare and have no co2 left I blow into the tube, I can get 80 psi from my lungs.


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## Racing roadkill (15 Sep 2015)

Dogtrousers said:


> Perhaps he was sponsored by Topeak, and feared that if the paparazzi caught him using a Zefal pump it could endanger his contract.


Lol.


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## JMAG (15 Sep 2015)

Dogtrousers said:


> I have a CO2 inflator (irresistable Aldi bargain) in my toolkit. I've never used it - and if I ever do I fear that a situation like the one above may arise.



Why don't you try it out at home and avoid surprises at an inopportune moment? 



Dogtrousers said:


> On a more general point - I can't see what on earth is wrong with "pretend racing". What's wrong with a bit of escapism? Behaving dangerously like a silly bugger - I don't approve of that. But pretend racing? Why ever not?



I think pretend racing in large numbers on open roads shared by other road users can too easily lead to dangerous and inconsiderate behaviour.


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## Hip Priest (15 Sep 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Happy to be told I am wrong. Well, maybe not "happy"...
> 
> 
> A quick google shows that at least CTC offers activity provider insurance which covers ride leaders in case they are sued. I'd assumed all clubs would have such insurance. If you go out on a club outing and are injured because you followed the ride leader's instructions you'd have a pretty good case to sue them and the club. If they didn't have insurance, you could go after their assets.
> ...



In my experience, a shout of 'Clear' isn't so much an instruction to blindly proceed, but a reassuring warning that allows you to keep rolling rather than stopping to unclip.

I've never gone blindly out of a junction after a shout of 'Clear!' The procedure is always to check for yourself, then pass the shout back through the group, or warn riders behind if it is no longer clear.

There'd be serious injuries every weekend if bunches of club riders went through a junction blind just because it was clear for the first rider.

Maybe you could sue or attempt to sue a rider leader or club mate in these circumstances - I'm no legal expert - but that would seem dreadfully unfair to me.


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## Sim2003 (15 Sep 2015)

A friend and I got caught up in a local sportive , We were doing a usual route on a Sunday (not our usual day) . Got onto one of the roads and there were lots of riders spaced apart about 100 yards between each. The road wasn't closed as there were still cars and vans going down so we proceeded and to be honest we didn't know what was going on until I had a google about it when I got home. 

All in all the ride was real nice even with heavy rain. There were lots of people and camera men at side of road just cheering on the riders, Some did have a jokily cheer to us too which was good lol. Overall It was good. However one spectator did shout some abuse at us along the line of "You F**king Idiots , you are slowing them down, why did you come this way". Clearly the mother or wife of someone in the race/time trial or whatever it was. 

The funny thing is though , These guys were on a 50mph lane and holding up cars/vans/lorries behind them making them have to overtake each one in turn on this pretty long stretch of road. So by the end of this lane we noticed a few cars overtaking us more sporadically than usual (a real pleasant lane to go down normally). Must have been frustrating for the drivers baring in mind the racers were spread rather far apart and they were going down 1 lane round a roundabout and back. so riders either side well spread and in the centre of the lane. 

Just that one lady with the abuse made us think Is that what the other riders and spectators are thinking?. Is this how serious these events are taken ?


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## vickster (15 Sep 2015)

I expect she was related in some way to a wannabe mamil without the balls and talent to actually take part in a race. My impression is those are often the idiots who think a sportive is a 'race' and she is as big an idiot

You have every right to be on the roads if the sportive is on open rather than closed roads, as does the traffic. I don't really get the paying to ride on open roads, when all you get is a number pinned to your jersey, and an energy gel or two (if unlucky)


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## mjr (15 Sep 2015)

Dogtrousers said:


> I have a CO2 inflator (irresistable Aldi bargain) in my toolkit. I've never used it - and if I ever do I fear that a situation like the one above may arise.


But you've enough sense to read the instructions, haven't you? And some idea that a compressed gas cartridge gets very cold as it empties?



Dogtrousers said:


> On a more general point - I can't see what on earth is wrong with "pretend racing". What's wrong with a bit of escapism? Behaving dangerously like a silly bugger - I don't approve of that. But pretend racing? Why ever not?


Because in any group of a decent size there's always someone who wants to sort-of-win so badly that they will cross the line from "racing" to "silly bugger"... and even more who will follow them blindly... and organisers who have lots of incentives to take their money and very little incentive to weed such people out  I think sportive companies could manage(? encourage?) a few deaths a year, almost everyone would blame the dead riders and keep paying the entry fees.


jefmcg said:


> A quick google shows that at least CTC offers activity provider insurance which covers ride leaders in case they are sued. I'd assumed all clubs would have such insurance. If you go out on a club outing and are injured because you followed the ride leader's instructions you'd have a pretty good case to sue them and the club.


*Normally* I don't think you'd have any case at all because British Cycling's social ride terms clearly state "all adult Riders are responsible for their own well-being" and most other organisations have similar. If you sign up online, you usually have to tick a box to say you've read that stuff - if you turn up in person, you should hear the key points in the start-of-ride welcome.

However, sadly, the necessary welcomes which include that reminder are rarely given (IMO because they are sometimes heckled by experienced riders who want to get on and ride, not listen to the organiser) so you might have a case...

CTC has http://www.ctc.org.uk/insurance/event-organiser but there are surprising limits on the various policies such as at most 10 non-CTC-members who can do no more than three rides each; no competitive elements or tuition whatsoever; no multi-day or transport-assisted rides.


Racing roadkill said:


> The best thing about it is, that it's a brilliant little pump, equally as good as a "proper pump"


I wonder if the lycra lout was hoping for Miss Goodbody to turn up and give him an improper pump? (HT @Fnarr - why doesn't this work?)


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## Hip Priest (15 Sep 2015)

Sim2003 said:


> A friend and I got caught up in a local sportive , We were doing a usual route on a Sunday (not our usual day) . Got onto one of the roads and there were lots of riders spaced apart about 100 yards between each. The road wasn't closed as there were still cars and vans going down so we proceeded and to be honest we didn't know what was going on until I had a google about it when I got home.
> 
> All in all the ride was real nice even with heavy rain. There were lots of people and camera men at side of road just cheering on the riders, Some did have a jokily cheer to us too which was good lol. Overall It was good. However one spectator did shout some abuse at us along the line of "You F**king Idiots , you are slowing them down, why did you come this way". Clearly the mother or wife of someone in the race/time trial or whatever it was.
> 
> ...



Sounds more like a TT than a sportive. But as you say, if it's taking place on public roads you've every right to be there. I'd have reported the abuse to the organising club or CTT.


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## Hip Priest (15 Sep 2015)

vickster said:


> The idiot should carry his own, ungrateful pillock



He probably thinks 'the pros don't carry tools, so why should I?' without realising that the pros have support.


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## mjr (15 Sep 2015)

Hip Priest said:


> Sounds more like a TT than a sportive. But as you say, if it's taking place on public roads you've every right to be there. I'd have reported the abuse to the organising club or CTT.


Most TTs have a minute between riders, which is usually more than 100 yards. I did once take part in a charity ride of a few hundred where small groups were released from the start every 20-30 seconds onto an urban B road that led to an A road and steep-at-first 4km climb, which didn't seem terribly safe to me - I don't think that ride happened again. I don't know whether a commercial organising company was involved and might still be starting rides like that.


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## Dan B (15 Sep 2015)

mjray said:


> Because in any group of a decent size there's always someone who wants to sort-of-win so badly that they will cross the line from "racing" to "silly bugger"... and even more who will follow them blindly...


Sounds like my commute this morning.


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## vickster (15 Sep 2015)

Hip Priest said:


> He probably thinks 'the pros don't carry tools, so why should I?' without realising that the pros have support.


Says it all about some sportive participants n'est ce pas?

I doubt that much thought took place


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## Dogtrousers (15 Sep 2015)

mjray said:


> But you've enough sense to read the instructions, haven't you? And some idea that a compressed gas cartridge gets very cold as it empties?


The instructions are packed in my toolkit along with the inflator. I'm aware of the risks and I'm a little scared to use it for fear of something comical/painful happening.


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## Sim2003 (15 Sep 2015)

Hip Priest said:


> Sounds more like a TT than a sportive. But as you say, if it's taking place on public roads you've every right to be there. I'd have reported the abuse to the organising club or CTT.



Yeh we definitely weren't the only ones to get caught up in it , As the road is a common one used by people in the area. As for the abuse it was the 1 person out of the many so wasn't a issue , If anything it was very amusing and we had a laugh at the ladies expense with some random s that stopped off where we do.


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## Dogtrousers (15 Sep 2015)

JMAG said:


> Why don't you try it out at home and avoid surprises at an inopportune moment?


Things are just as likely to go wrong at home as at the roadside. And I have a track pump at home.


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## Hip Priest (15 Sep 2015)

mjray said:


> Most TTs have a minute between riders, which is usually more than 100 yards. I did once take part in a charity ride of a few hundred where small groups were released from the start every 20-30 seconds onto an urban B road that led to an A road and steep-at-first 4km climb, which didn't seem terribly safe to me - I don't think that ride happened again. I don't know whether a commercial organising company was involved and might still be starting rides like that.



I just thought the fact that the riders were released in turn suggested a TT rather than a sportive, and assumed that the 100 yds was an estimate or turn-of-phrase.


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## jefmcg (15 Sep 2015)

Hip Priest said:


> Maybe you could sue or attempt to sue a rider leader or club mate in these circumstances - I'm no legal expert - but that would seem dreadfully unfair to me.


I think you can sue anyone for anything - you just most likely won't win. Being sued even unsuccessfully is expensive, so it's nice to have insurance


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## TheJDog (15 Sep 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Note to sportive riders: Don't shout "clear" to other riders. More importantly don't listen to someone you don't know shouting "clear".



I caught up with a guy in Regent's Park one time and gave him an earful for shouting clear when there were cars 15 yards away. I now think he was just pretending to be like his friends, and didn't know what it meant.


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## JMAG (15 Sep 2015)

Dogtrousers said:


> Things are just as likely to go wrong at home as at the roadside. And I have a track pump at home.



That was kind of my point. If it goes wrong at home, you haven't got far to walk!


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## youngoldbloke (15 Sep 2015)

Large numbers of riders came through our village the other morning - 800 or so - during rush hour. Motorists were delayed on their rat-run to the motorway, there were complaints. But _every day_ I am delayed by large numbers of cars when I want to join the main road past the village. Boot on the other foot time?


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## Racing roadkill (15 Sep 2015)

On the abuse point, last Sunday, I did a special event in London (not a Sportive). Closed roads, and a Criterium layout. I was wearing BMC FPKW gear (purely for giggles). One of the volunteer martials on a side road, piped up with "Do you ride for BMC then, you w*****r", I shouted back, "yeah, I've lost my buddies, have you seen a f*****g great big red and black bus anywhere round here". I made a point of slowing down and riding past his post slowly, during the event.


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## mjr (15 Sep 2015)

Racing roadkill said:


> On the abuse point, last Sunday, I did a special event in London (not a Sportive). Closed roads, and a Criterium layout. I was wearing BMC FPKW gear (purely for giggles).


Would that have been a certain 4 mile loop that the real BMC rode on a bit later?


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## mjr (15 Sep 2015)

youngoldbloke said:


> But _every day_ I am delayed by large numbers of cars when I want to join the main road past the village. Boot on the other foot time?


Hell, yeah! I don't have much sympathy for that complaint against sportives which basically amounts to "OMG there's heavy traffic and it's not motorised!" because I'm sometimes sat waiting for 5+ minutes to get across the main road by my house and onto the cycle track to town.


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## Dan B (15 Sep 2015)

TheJDog said:


> I caught up with a guy in Regent's Park one time and gave him an earful for shouting clear when there were cars 15 yards away. I now think he was just pretending to be like his friends, and didn't know what it meant.


Isn't it like in Casualty when they apply the defibrilator? "Clear" <WHOOOMP>


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## Milkfloat (15 Sep 2015)

JMAG said:


> That was kind of my point. If it goes wrong at home, you haven't got far to walk!



Plus an ambulance can generally find its way to a house far easier than a hedgerow out in the boonies.


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## Mad Doug Biker (15 Sep 2015)

mjray said:


> Well, you are being a complete moron if the road's not wide enough to overtake without changing lanes, aren't you? If they ride single file, it just doubles (or worse) the length you've got to overtake when the oncoming lane is clear.
> 
> Worse, some drivers take it as a signal to try to overtake without changing lane and anything oncoming usually results in a cyclist in the verge, at best. I've seen it happen. Unless it's clear or a wide road, it's better to stay in a car-like shape, like cars do.
> 
> If you're trying to tell cyclists to put themselves in danger, then well done, yet another cycling group who might now be pi**ed off at motorists. Well done!


& @Dogtrousers

You are making a lot of assumptions here.
I've seen a few a few involving people riding a few abreast, and yeah, you will be right if the road isn't wide enough, but one particular incident which was more than that, and that sticks in the mind was on a country road wide enough for a vehicle to pass (and others safely had already), but there was one guy who decided to deliberately block the path when a car appeared for no good reason whilst casually chatting to his friend. It wasn't as if he was protecting those in front of him, they weren't in the way, it was just him (I was behind so saw what happened, and I had the car beside me at a safe distance, and I could see the driver too). Not great. The car did eventually get past, but how nothing happened, I don't know!

It kind of coloured things for me and I now don't even like riding two abreast on a road these days if there is traffic behind (within reason, of course). Daft maybe, but I just don't like to pi*s off drivers as we have all seen the consequences, and besides, it can limit my own ability for movement should something happen requiring sudden action.

And no, I wouldn't dream of putting anyone in danger, only a complete moron would, or even suggest it! 

I don't do many group rides (mainly for the reasons already mentioned in this thread), but one does see this sort of thing happen every so often. Maybe I have just seen some bad examples of things though


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## jefmcg (15 Sep 2015)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> The car did eventually get past, but how nothing happened, I don't know!


Maybe it's my reading comprehension skills, but I don't get what could happen. A car wanted to pass another vehicle, they waited until it was safe, then they passed. What did you expect to happen that didn't?


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## Mad Doug Biker (16 Sep 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Maybe it's my reading comprehension skills, but I don't get what could happen. A car wanted to pass another vehicle, they waited until it was safe, then they passed. What did you expect to happen that didn't?



The guy was deliberately blocking the road for no reason other than to idly chat with his mate. The car could have passed easily, but the cyclist was being a twunt and wouldn't let it. Also it lasted a few minutes, not just a few seconds, so it most certainly wasn't accidental, and he just glared at me when I pointed out what he was doing.

As far as I'm concerned, just get out the way before you get an angry person in a 1or 2 tonne metal box (in this case a 4x4 in fact) have a go at you (although in this case it would have been delicious )


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## Mad Doug Biker (16 Sep 2015)

MontyVeda said:


> congratulations... you've completely missed the point.



I get what you are saying, you want control, etc etc, but I was just pointing out that not everyone else is a complete idiot either.

Of course, you need to trust people.
Also, you said that you can't understand drivers who ask a passenger to see what's coming. Maybe the person asked is a greater judge of when to pull out than the driver is, knowing the time delay in reaction, etc etc, therefore making the situation safer?  


That is in a vehicle, so everyone has a vested interest to stay safe. Someone flashing you out or whtever can be very different however, I know.


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## jefmcg (16 Sep 2015)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> (although in this case it would have been delicious )


If he had taken a gun out and shot at them while passing, would that also have been delicious, or do you only enjoy vehicular attempted homicide?


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## mjr (16 Sep 2015)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> You are making a lot of assumptions here.


You are leaving a lot of gaps here.



Mad Doug Biker said:


> but one particular incident which was more than that, and that sticks in the mind was on a country road wide enough for a vehicle to pass (and others safely had already), but there was one guy who decided to deliberately block the path when a car appeared for no good reason whilst casually chatting to his friend.


How wide was the country road?

How do you know that his decision was to block the path whilst casually chatting, rather than having to move up to arrange something to do with the ride organisation - did you ask him or are you making a lot of assumptions too?

Is it fair if it's a motor vehicle ahead, but people cycling two abreast "block the path"?


Mad Doug Biker said:


> It kind of coloured things for me and I now don't even like riding two abreast on a road these days if there is traffic behind (within reason, of course). Daft maybe, but I just don't like to pi*s off drivers as we have all seen the consequences, and besides, it can limit my own ability for movement should something happen requiring sudden action.


Drivers get peed off by all sorts of things, including other drivers, road layouts and so on. That's their blood pressure. If we're broadly following the highway code, it should be allowed, especially on country lanes - motorists who want to go fast should use major roads.


Mad Doug Biker said:


> And no, I wouldn't dream of putting anyone in danger, only a complete moron would, or even suggest it!


Sadly, there are a lot of what you'd call complete morons out there, then.



Mad Doug Biker said:


> I don't do many group rides (mainly for the reasons already mentioned in this thread), but one does see this sort of thing happen every so often. Maybe I have just seen some bad examples of things though


Probably - for the most part, group rides are on routes that few motorists use. Around here, it's roads that motorists either aren't allowed to use, or that are smaller but more direct than the major ones. You probably don't even notice all the group rides which pass uneventfully.

Sadly, "this sort of thing" can happen quite easily to lone riders too, but I suspect it's less likely to be reported because there's often no witnesses and many cyclists blame themselves, especially if they're uncertain about the law, highway code or cyclecraft. I think it's less likely to happen to a group because motorists are more reluctant to take a chance with a group of a dozen or so - they're unlikely to incapacitate us all and that's a lot of witnesses to leave, some of whom have video cameras. The worst incidents I've known about have happened to lone riders, not groups. This is part of why I will ride roads in groups that I avoid alone.


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## Legs (17 Sep 2015)

It's all to do with considerateness, innit? Most of the country lanes around here (that people in their right mind most enjoy riding on) are of the sort of width where two cars would each need to move to the verges and slow down considerably to pass, if approaching head-on. No white line - the kind of road where you can't overtake a car in a car. Now, I'm all for giving cyclists room when they pass (as much room as a car, when on a wide road), but if you're seriously suggesting that motorists should not pass cyclists on these narrow roads, you're just not thinking practically. Of course, the manoeuvre has to be done in an appropriate place and, with cooperation from the cyclist(s) (whether singling out, or moving left a little, or - heaven forfend! - _waving them through)_, it's a lot smoother and less stressful. Hell, when I'm cycling I *hate *to be holding up traffic behind me. There's a time and a place for the primary position, and a time and a place to be a friendly, considerate roaduser.


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## Pope (17 Sep 2015)

Legs said:


> It's all to do with considerateness, innit? Most of the country lanes around here (that people in their right mind most enjoy riding on) are of the sort of width where two cars would each need to move to the verges and slow down considerably to pass, if approaching head-on. No white line - the kind of road where you can't overtake a car in a car. Now, I'm all for giving cyclists room when they pass (as much room as a car, when on a wide road), but if you're seriously suggesting that motorists should not pass cyclists on these narrow roads, you're just not thinking practically. Of course, the manoeuvre has to be done in an appropriate place and, with cooperation from the cyclist(s) (whether singling out, or moving left a little, or - heaven forfend! - _waving them through)_, it's a lot smoother and less stressful. Hell, when I'm cycling I *hate *to be holding up traffic behind me. There's a time and a place for the primary position, and a time and a place to be a friendly, considerate roaduser.



Precisely. When I'm cycling, I'm aware that I'm travelling much slower than motorists can. Therefore, I try my best to get out of their way so I'm not slowing them down.


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## winjim (17 Sep 2015)

Pope said:


> When I'm cycling, I'm aware that I'm travelling much slower than motorists can.


I regularly zoom past motorists who are crawling along in traffic. They can go pretty slowly.


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## Profpointy (17 Sep 2015)

winjim said:


> I regularly zoom past motorists who are crawling along in traffic. They can go pretty slowly.



and they often ride seated two abreast, sometimes two abreast with no one in one of the seats !


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## Drago (17 Sep 2015)

The thread title is misleading. It suggested to me that you had a date with a Sportive nutcase, but they bailed on you at the last minute.


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