# Simon Parker's London Cycle Map -



## Garjenkins (10 May 2010)

I ask you all to read the article in the link at the very bottom about Simon Parkers amazing London Cycle Map. The map is amazing and in light of 2012 coming up maybe this is our last chance of pushing this great idea forward.

Its definitely a case of common sense versus beaurocracy.

If you agree with it the please sign this petition - 

www.petition.co.uk/london-cycle-map-campaign

Hopefully it will may at least raise debate for improved cycling in lOndon.


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## skrx (10 May 2010)

London is too big for a single map, and there are already the excellent TFL/LCC maps (link). These mark all the signed routes in blue.

Alternatively, OpenCycleMap marks all the NCN and LCN routes in red and blue, and it's possible to print out sections showing whatever detail (or size) you require.


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## Garjenkins (10 May 2010)

This map would correspond with route mapped on coloured routes on the roads. 

Both of those maps you would have to carry around with you and stop every two seconds to view it. 

They are an exhaustive list of cycle routes not a tool which simplifies navigation for everyone.

Have you viewed the map on the link? You can see how easy it is to use.

Before you leave remember "Take Red 1 and take blue 2 left when it intersects and your there" you would just have to follow the lines on the roads.

Perfect for New cyclists, novices, tourists, pedestrians even.


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## skrx (10 May 2010)

I would still need a map for the last bit, or if I deviated from the route at any point.

OK, it's a pretty map, but with the existing map I can do "Follow the blue signs towards Westminster, then follow them towards Southwark". This seems to replace/supplement that with "Follow red until you see blue".

If the petition is more about painting coloured lines on the road then you should say so.


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## Garjenkins (10 May 2010)

I presume you work for Tfl if you think the current cycle network around London is sufficient.

Please feel free to not sign the petition.


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## Garjenkins (10 May 2010)

I would also like to say that the article is about Simon Parkers map but the petition is for the need for a cycle network/map in the city full stop (if not this map a better one). The petition will hopefully be able to spark debate and show that many of us would like the Mayor to give it more thought.

IN Amsterdam 30% people cycle - in London 1% - which would surely improve if we had something better in place.


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## style over speed (10 May 2010)

Looks fantastic, reminds me a bit of the numbering of bike routes in the Netherlands. Has Simon had any response from cycle england, I'd have thought it might fit in with their work? Anyway the present signing situation is pretty hopeless, and anyone who thinks otherwise must be delusional.


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## Garjenkins (11 May 2010)

I will send a message to see if they have contacted Cycle England ( If they havent, they should have) its a very good point. Cheers.


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## chap (11 May 2010)

*Excellent Map*

I was thoroughly impressed by Simon Parker's map, the amount of time committed to this endeavour is truly admirable, and its adoption would certainly be the classic rags-to-riches material, and a practical celebration of British design.

Alas, the maps success has been impeded, not by its flaws (and there are a few) but by the causal suspects: self-aggrandising dead-weight (i.e. councillors, self-interested organisations, and other bums-on-seats, from the public-sector, with the gift of the faff: to bluff their way to significance, as obstacles.)

With the imminent London Cycle Scheme, the timing for adoption of this sort of thing could not be better; I have mentioned before the need for more and better signing, which is why it really ought to be done properly.

This is why the otherwise, well thought out website, frustrates me with its dispersion of priority, where the author on his commentary decides to brainstorm various frills and fancies, such as user-generated maps. Such an careless slip, betrays their lack of understanding on the subject. The idea is not to appease the 'iGeneration', but to provide a robust and durable set of routes with which people can use as a reference with which to base their own journeys from. This would (hopefully) imply / assist the need for signage, and would provide a consistent means for centralising quick travel. The nearest equivalent, I can think of is that of Motorways: I may wish to get from Southampton to Luton, if I want a custom map I can use my Tom-tom or get something generated from Google; if I want a straight-forward route then I know that I cannot go too wrong by following the M3 -> M25 -> M1, regardless of alternative routes.

Furthermore, we know how ineffective councils can be on certain issues, like water the path of least resistance will be chosen, and sadly unless pushed by visible consequential public opinion, the resistance is usually the opposite of whatever the said goal is - thus the idea of pushing water uphill.

This is why, I believe the article (not magazine), and the petition frustrate the issue. With such a small time-frame in which the scheme shall be launched; many eyes shall be on London (not least those pesky Parisians) and there will inevitably be political interest. Therefore, a vague declamation shall get people nowhere. At present, one can say that the maps do exist, if pushed they can be shrunk down to basic pamphlets, or a few extra irrelevant signposts could be sprinkled inconspicuously across the city. 

We should be advocating the adoption of Simon Parkers Map, after all it is a near-finished article for initial adoption. Calling for just 'a map' is too vague, and makes it too easy for this petition to be lost, ignored, or if pushed then bodged. It is interesting that the LCC don't seem to advocate the map, perhaps it is an idea to present it to them for adoption, even if it just a case of featuring the map on their website (think of the audience numbers). The fact that the map is not shown independently on Cyclelife site, despite the commentary appearing under Features, is also irritating, at the very least; although fortunately it is shown in the magazine. 

So, my view is that it is a great idea, needs a few final touches (including key stations) and clarifying route names, but the campaign / drive is poorly executed. The latter is the far greater sin and until that is corrected, I doubt I will be signing up.


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## srw (12 May 2010)

Garjenkins said:


> Have you viewed the map on the link? You can see how easy it is to use.



I had to dig very hard to find it - you should include a direct link.

Nice idea, but the roads it uses aren't necessarily the right ones. The routes West-East across Central London are too many and too complex, and the roads are already pretty full at rush hour. One of them even takes a large, pointless, detour through Clerkenwell and through the Fleet valley (down + up) when most people know to head straight down to Holborn.


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## Garjenkins (12 May 2010)

One if the issues surrounding this is that The maps creator is somewhat of a character. SOmeone who has spent so much of his time in the creation of the routes and is obviously extremely passionate about it.

When I talked to the editor before about it the map didnt have any stations or monuments or pretty much anything that a cyclist would need.

It clearly has a long way to go and Mr Parker almost pulled the plug on providing the magazine access to a picture of the map at all.

I agree it should have an easier link to it, but the difficulties dont only lie with local government but with the creator also. I think the petition is for a general Cycling map/system that works and from that SImon Parkers is the best one around by the sounds of it.

Got to start somewhere I guess.


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## chap (12 May 2010)

Garjenkins said:


> One if the issues surrounding this is that The maps creator is somewhat of a character. SOmeone who has spent so much of his time in the creation of the routes and is obviously extremely passionate about it.
> 
> When I talked to the editor before about it the map didnt have any stations or monuments or pretty much anything that a cyclist would need.
> 
> ...



Ah, the stuff tragedies are made off, the obstinate artist thus killing his creation. This is the sort of issue that could be discussed, and if the creator is so uncooperative, perhaps it is worth letting them know.

As mentioned before, the window of opportunity is imminent but fleeting, the project is nearing completion of it major piece and most revisions afterwards shall be staid and subsequent, thus unlikely to take any major new form. Therefore, calling for research, when in the eyes of the organisers - this has been done, is likely to fall on deaf ears, especially when they already have free maps showing cycle routes - both official and recommended.

Signposting is my preferred approach, but organised signposting. Simon Parker's map is an excellent idea but misses many critical points (chiefly key stations: if you cannot do a monopoly run on an London-based logistical heuristic, then it has failed) Where an improved version of this to be implemented with visible, and harmoniously designed, sign posts then this would most certainly be a winning formula.


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## Garjenkins (13 May 2010)

Couldn't agree more.


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## chap (13 May 2010)

User said:


> I can't find the link - and, frankly, this smells to me of a bit of personal aggrandisement...
> 
> Perhaps if the link the map itself was actually provided it might help




I was a tad suspicious at the start, what with the multiple posts, and the initial tone (esp with the TfL retort; but I will give Garjenkins the benefit of the doubt. 

Although, it would be helpful to learn of your connection with Cycle Life, Simon Parker, and his map Garjenkins.

Finally, the map is available in the second Issue (free PDF download) on page 16.


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## dellzeqq (13 May 2010)

you can't knock the effort, but I do wonder if we're beyond the point where cycling maps offer much in the way of utility. We're kings of the road!


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## chap (14 May 2010)

User said:


> All I can say is *Meh*. It looks pretty but I can't see the utility of it. It doesn't give sufficient detail to make it much use for commuting or touring, and it severly restricts the available (and useful) routes.



It is a major issue that some very obvious points of interest (POI) are missed out, or poorly connected. However, if implemented well, I beleive it could be useful, it would need to be obvious where certain routes were so you couldn't pass them unwittingly. This in part is the problem, since the map ignores landmarks (something we traditionally use for navigation), it is an abstraction which must be implemented fully or not at all.

The tube map is a perfect abstraction since it is effectively standalone since we are naturally confined to the train, thus can use the map (and minimal markers) in isolation. This map, would cause out-roar (and obscene expense) were it to be put in practise either with bold signposts using the primary colour routes (with tags), or even more if this were to result in some paintwork along cycle routes.

Therefore, I still advocate signposting, I would be glad for this map to be incorporated into it, however it would need modifications on routes as well as the signings, as they make things needlessly complicated.


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## Garjenkins (17 May 2010)

"Although, it would be helpful to learn of your connection with Cycle Life, Simon Parker, and his map Garjenkins."

I am schoolmates with the guy who created the Cycle mag. He created it and does it all on his own (barring some volunteer friends who write for him...me included).

He spoke to Simon Parker when he heard about the map he was creating - I have never met Mr Parker. The map when he first showed it to me had even less on it and ir was frsutrating because the potential was huge but it had not really been thought about how it would be used.....bike parks, tube stations, monuments etc - the map could take you from one side to the other but you wouldnt have a clue where you were in between.

It has to be better, it has to have better signposting and it has to have coloured routes to follow on the streets.

Actually I told my friend that I posted it and he gave me a bollocking for mentioning Parkers Map at all. The petition is for "a map" a better map - for london...not Simon Parkers necessarily.

I am just trying to get more people aware/ interested in the petition- though not even the cyclists are agreed on the subject so I feel a bit campaigned out already. I will stick to my day job. I think.


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## chap (17 May 2010)

Garjenkins said:


> "Although, it would be helpful to learn of your connection with Cycle Life, Simon Parker, and his map Garjenkins."
> 
> I am schoolmates with the guy who created the Cycle mag. He created it and does it all on his own (barring some volunteer friends who write for him...me included).
> 
> ...




Those that get things done are few, there is a lot of self-interest and divisiveness in any campaign, and you will easy notice this with Cycling advocacy. 

The idea of a standardised implemented map is a good one, and evidently one can see the benefit of such a thing. However, one needn't look too far back to justify a sense of scepticism when it comes to councils and certain organisations messing up a good plan. Were your petition to catch the publics interest, I imagine that the only benefits would be a bunch of councillors, TfL, and the cabal of consultants hired at great expense to obfuscate the bleeding obvious. Therefore, perhaps it is best to campaign for something more specific (e.g. more helpful sign posts over safe, quiet yet quick routes), or check with interest groups (e.g. LCC, CTC) to develop a good map.

It is a shame that the creator is a hindrance to his own scheme, he has basically guaranteed it a failure, thus is probably best avoided.

Good luck with the campaign!


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## AnotherEye (13 Jun 2010)

Garjenkins said:


> I ask you all to read the article in the link at the very bottom about Simon Parkers amazing London Cycle Map. The map is amazing and in light of 2012 coming up maybe this is our last chance of pushing this great idea forward.
> Its definitely a case of common sense versus beaurocracy.
> If you agree with it the please sign this petition -
> www.petition.co.uk/london-cycle-map-campaig
> Hopefully it will may at least raise debate for improved cycling in London.


I clicked on both links but I didn't find the map (is there a direct link?).
In my opinion; different cyclists have different needs. As a confident cyclist I tend to use the same roads as motorists (in fact I get hassle from motorists on the narrow back streets marked as an LCR but little hassle on the main roads).


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