# Which sleeping bag?



## Sara_H (10 Feb 2012)

Hello folks, I'm gradually putting a few bits of touring equipment together.

Can I ask your advice about sleeping bags?

I'm very nesh (for those of you dahn sowf it mean I feel the cold easily). When I car camp I take a very big heavy sleeping bag, blankets, hot water bottle and a live man to keep me warm.
Since I'm not going to be able to fit all that into my panniers can you recomend a mid budget sleeping bag to keep me warm from early spring through to late autumn?


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## cnb (10 Feb 2012)

Hi. It all depends where you are planning to use it..Down bags are warmest for the weight,but you need to make sure you keep them dry(something that i've always managed to do)..If you don't mind a little extra weight and bulk, then something like the marmot wave3 is a good three season synthetic bag..I would try for a down bag though just for their pack size...


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## PpPete (10 Feb 2012)

Depends what you call mid-budget really.
Arguably the best down bags for a whole range of different weights and for different temperatures can be found here. And if you can't find exactly the right model - they will make a custom model to your specification. It's worth having a thorough read of that site just for the huge amount of information about features you might or might not find in other manufacturers.

Some way down the scale price-wise, but still incredible vfm are Alpkit. Link to what may suitable model.


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## jay clock (10 Feb 2012)

+1 for PHD. I have a Minim and now another heavier one too. They weigh a lot less than other ones such as a Blacks one that said 900g but weighed 1200. I also have a PHD gilet and jacket which are stunning too.

Go for a silk liner too,

Finally, not used them camping yet, but I got a pair of these for Xmas and they are amazing *http://tinyurl.com/7ncfl8m*


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## PpPete (10 Feb 2012)

jay clock said:


> Finally, not used them camping yet, but I got a pair of these for Xmas and they are amazing *http://tinyurl.com/7ncfl8m*


Are they SPD compatible then?


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## jags (10 Feb 2012)

i have the alpkit pipefream 400 great bag well made BUT useless if its freezing outside.so maybe one of ther 800 filled bags would be better.one thing is for certain you will need to spend money on a bag thats going to keep you toasty when its cold outside


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## cnb (10 Feb 2012)

jags said:


> i have the alpkit pipefream 400 great bag well made BUT useless if its freezing outside.so maybe one of ther 800 filled bags would be better.one thing is for certain you will need to spend money on a bag thats going to keep you toasty when its cold outside


 Yes i've read some good reviews about the PHD kit..Rab and mountain equip have excellent down bags its just a matter of price..at least with shop bought bags you can get a look and feel of them.. My pref would be for a down bag any time.. the extra cost is worth the saving in pack size and warmth to weight ratio..


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## PpPete (10 Feb 2012)

cnb said:


> Yes i've read some good reviews about the PHD kit..Rab and mountain equip have excellent down bags its just a matter of price..at least with shop bought bags you can get a look and feel of them.. My pref would be for a down bag any time.. the extra cost is worth the saving in pack size and warmth to weight ratio..


 
Whilst you can look & feel Mountain Equipment bags (& Rab for that matter) .... just bear in mind that Pete Hutchinson started ME...grew it to where the money men took over and forced him out - so he started PHD, and has very delliberately kept it small & UK made. If you want Chinese made at sensible prices then Alpkit, if you want the best of UK made - PHD. Sorry, but ME and RAB are big brands now, with big brand prices - but still chinese made. 

And FWIW - my warmest sleeping bag is a ME Annapurna - nearly 20 years old, my lightest bag is PHD Minim. To borrow the Mr Kipling slogan ... he does make exceedingly good cakes bags


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## Ticktockmy (10 Feb 2012)

Go for down everytime as they compact down smaller, Go for 3 season at least, even in the summer you can have a cold night more so if you are a cold sleeper As to which make, thats the nightmare, so many to choose from, so do some research, but at the end of day your budget is what will sort our what you can afford buy, and buy the best you can afford, as it will last many years to come.


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## cnb (10 Feb 2012)

I have to agree with PpPete...But i like to have a good look at what i'm buying...Yep down every time unless you are going somewhere esp damp or humid


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## jay clock (10 Feb 2012)

I do not agree with the suggestion that Chinese made means poor quality.... When I was a kid Made In Japan meant cheap rubbish - now they are on a par with Germany for high quality


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## PpPete (10 Feb 2012)

jay clock said:


> I do not agree with the suggestion that Chinese made means poor quality.... When I was a kid Made In Japan meant cheap rubbish - now they are on a par with Germany for high quality


 
I don't believe I made any such suggestion.... nor even that British made was inherently better just because it was British... but I stand by my contention that if you want the best quality down sleeping bags (at any level of insulation) then PHD is THE place to go. The fact that they are made in Britain means that they are inevitably somewhat more expensive, but IMO not excessively so.

And FWIW my bike with the Chinese frame is a big improvement over the one with the "handbuilt in England" frame -


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## jags (10 Feb 2012)

wow those phd bags are super expensive like how could an ordinary joe like me afford one of those bags but are you saying that even there cheapest bag would be much better than say alpkit 600or800 bags. ok i know you didn't exactly say that but would it be worth spending the same amount of money it cost to buy the alpkit800 on one of phd chearer bags.


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## PpPete (10 Feb 2012)

not exactly ... let's assume that one can compare on the basis of the minimum temperature they are rated for. All sleeping bag manufacturers tell you not to do this because they all use different systems .... but for the sake of the comparison look at that Alpkit SkyeHigh 600 I linked earlier. -5ºC - OK ? Weight 1215 grams packed size 23 x 25 cms - and £125
Now look in the PHD table for -5º - take the Minim 400 model 670 grams and loose pack size of 17" x 28 (you can get it a lot smaller if you want) - now OK its £265 - so, if the comfort level is really the same, you are paying £140 to save 545 grams.

How many of us would spend an extra £140 on the price of a new road bike to save 500 grams ? Chances are, we'd be jumping from aluminium to carbon frame to save that kind of weight.


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## steveindenmark (10 Feb 2012)

Totally agree with PHD.

The equation is Size, Weight, Warmth, Cost

You do not have to be a genius to work out if you want a small, light, very warm sleeping bag that you can use in minus degrees, it will cost a lot.

First thing you need to consider is if you are camping in Blackpool in June, do you really need a -10 sleeping bag?
My advice is to make a list of what you want from a sleeping bag and then save your money and get the best sleeping bag you can afford. PHD are the best.

Really good advice in your post Pete.

Steve


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## oldfatfool (10 Feb 2012)

Get yourself a silk liner as well, a cheap, lite way of adding a couple of degs.


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## steveindenmark (10 Feb 2012)

jags said:


> wow those phd bags are super expensive like how could an ordinary joe like me afford one of those bags .


 
Sleeping bags are the same as all touring and cycling gear. We start off buying what we can afford, usually it is cheap.
Very quickly we realise it is cheap and it operates or works as if it is cheap and it gets binned in the shed and we go out and buy something a bit more expensive. The bit more expensive piece of kit is so much better than the original cheap piece of kit that we soon want the expensive piece of kit. Because we know how much better it will be than the little bit more expensive piece of kit. So we bin the little bit more expensive piece of kit in the shed and we use the expensive piece of kit and it is wonderful. It is exactly what we should have bought to begin with and we get many years of good use out of it and continue to be happy with it and recommend it to all our friends.

The other 2 pieces of rubbish kit stay in the shed and are eventually thrown out for good. What we don`t think about is that the 2 rubbish pieces of kit are really half the price of the expensive piece of kit. Which makes the expensive piece of kit not that expensive, when you look at it this way.

Now how many pieces of kit have I bought like this............dozens........everyone who has been cycling for years has. But I don`t anymore. I do my research, bite the bullet and pay up.

The three things you cannot skimp on when you are cycling touring is:

Your tent

Your sleeping mat

Your sleeping bag

You can even skimp a bit on the bike. But if you are not warm and dry at night you will hate it, very quickly.

Good kit is expensive. It is unfortunate but that is the way it is.

Steve


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## fozy tornip (10 Feb 2012)

Buffalo system. Robust, durable, warm, doesn't cost the earth, flexible (take the inners and/or outers you need for the conditions), chortle as you spill coffee or spag bog sauce or smear mud all over them because machine washable and tough, rather than fret at the prospect of £800(!!) down the drain, clamber into them wet and still be warm... 
You're touring, not racing, so will be riding laden. Have a rest from gram fetishism and relax.


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## jay clock (10 Feb 2012)

Just looked at Buffalo. If you are going to have a "Have a rest from gram fetishism" these are heavy. For £125 you get a 2/3 season bag weighing a collosal 1610g. And not small packed. By getting a tiny PhD I not only saved the bag weight, but by taking the same approach with tent and mat I reduce the panniers to rear only, plus lose a front rack.

Re the gram fetishism, I had three weeks camping in NZ and it taught me to weigh every item and whittle down in every way. As long as reasonable comfort is not compromised.


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## YahudaMoon (10 Feb 2012)

Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack Snugpack

My choice being the Softie

Made in England and used by the British armed forces. How much better can you get ?

Maybe you can get better lol

Edit:

Some one up thread recommended a silk liner, forget them. Its 2012. Not 1992. Thats just more added weight and faff


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## andrew_s (10 Feb 2012)

jags said:


> wow those phd bags are super expensive like how could an ordinary joe like me afford one of those bags


PHD do a sale a couple of times a year, usually including Minim 300 or 500 (rather than the normal 400/600), when prices are more reasonable.


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## P.H (10 Feb 2012)

steveindenmark said:


> The three things you cannot skimp on when you are cycling touring is:
> Your tent
> *Your sleeping mat*
> Your sleeping bag
> ...


 
You touch on something that although not in the original question, is still maybe worth mentioning here.
Apologies if I'm stating the obvious to Sara, but if you're not careful you'll loose more heat to the ground below you that to the air above and no sleeping bag can change that. I was amazed at how much warmer I slept when I changed from a cheap Thermarest imitation to an insulated air mat, like an Exped Downmat.
I have no recommendation for sleeping bags, I tried a few and couldn't get comfortable in any of them. I now use a down camping quilt, which along with a big rectangle silk liner and the airbed means I sleep as well when camping as I do at home.


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## dragon72 (10 Feb 2012)

Ditto for the Snugpak Softie.
Packs down to the size of a small loaf of bread. 
My SAS-wannabe brother put me on to them. He uses his for mountain marathons.
I love mine as I can just chuck it in a pannier and still fit the kitchen sink in there too.


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## Sara_H (10 Feb 2012)

Snugpak _ I have one - left behind by my ex husband, not sure what sort it is though, my son sleeps in it when we're car camping - will look more closely at it.

Steveindenmark, I have a fab mat (thermarest womwens prolite), reasonable tent (vango micro 200 again left by ex hubby) and some other lightweight cooking stuff etc..

Next major purchase is sleeping bag and maybe some light, warm clothing but as mentioned above I don't want to spent on something useless for me. But, yes - budget is a massive consideration, £200ish is around where I'm Aaiming - less if I can get away with it.


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## jags (11 Feb 2012)

dragon72 said:


> Ditto for the Snugpak Softie.
> Packs down to the size of a small loaf of bread.
> My SAS-wannabe brother put me on to them. He uses his for mountain marathons.
> I love mine as I can just chuck it in a pannier and still fit the kitchen sink in there too.


 had a look at the softy snugpack looks like a great bag it cost 166euro in jacksons spors in belfast so you reckon its the one to get.


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## cnb (11 Feb 2012)

Hey Sara.for £200 you should get a good bag..Checkout the outdoors magic site for reviews or Live for the outdoors site.Backpacking sites with reader reviews...


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## andy_spacey (11 Feb 2012)

Ok. sleeping bags, buy this or buy that.
I spent over 6 months looking reading , looking again and reading more and i mean every day.
I had to save like hell and only had once chance of buying a bag for my tour.

I all ready have a ME bag which would be to hot for my tour to France/Spain

so I look for a down bag, small weight and pack, and the best i could get for the money.

I got a​*Cumulus Quantu**m 200* ,​512g and down to 0c and supersmall pack and i paid £215.​​is this the bag for you, probley not but the best site that i came across is this one.


http://www.downbags.co.uk/?gclid=CM3P3Kjela4CFWIntAodizYEJA
It looks at all the down bags so you can get a good idea of what you may be after.
I looked at lots of sites and shopped around for the bag i was after.
But once and buy right. Get the best bag you can for the money that you have.
Good look


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## jjb (12 Feb 2012)

I got a Vango Venom 225 down bag for 60 quid, down from 90, they claimed. 745g. I suppose it has 225g of down in it. iirc, it has 80g underneath and the rest up top. Not so good when I turn over.

I used it on my month long French odyssey last June. I woke every night with the cold. Mind you, I was in a big tent with mesh inner, would've been fine in a small tent. So I bought a supermarket kids sleeping bag en route, 500g maybe, bulky. Threw it over the Vango, great. Towards the South, towards July, I threw that away. Awake ever night again. Took to spreading maps over the vango.

On the upside, it was 30 nights use, stopping cycling at dusk half the time, climbing in without a shower. That bag is grubby! I might even have to bin it. Thank god I didn't go straight to a PHD! The minim 300 sounds great though.


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## bigjim (12 Feb 2012)

I bought a 2 season bag from Sports Direct last September for a French tour. It was £10 reduced. I also took a silk liner which at 100g is, IMO, well worth it. It was cool and raining when we first landed but I was warm enough with liner and bag. I was also lay on a cheap bright pink, £1 shop airbed. My proper airbed sprung a host of leaks before I left. I don't sleep warm by the way, not enough fat I guess. So for some a cheap bag can work and it is always throwable if it doesn't. Further south I just slept in the liner, so that was worth having. I don't do enough camping to justify a 2 to 3 hundred pound bag.


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## scotty110788 (13 Feb 2012)

Snugpak is the way forward, I've been in minus degrees with lightweight ones and just my thermals. Being a long distance walker/camper I have tried many bags, i don't go out to buy a warm bag but to buy warmest/lightest thermals


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## stumpy66 (14 Feb 2012)

I use a Vango down bag, less than a kilo, small pack size 2
+1 for silk liner, get them cheaper on eBay


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## willem (14 Feb 2012)

Sleeping kit is where it is easiest to save volume and weight. If you succeed, you will not need front panniers and a front rack, saving 2-2.5 kg and at least 100 pounds. So use that money saved to get a better bag and mattress.
If you are cold, a warm mattress is the first thing. The Exped down mat is the warmest, but may be overkill. The Exped Synmat basic is still warm enough a bit below freezing, and much cheaper and lighter. The lightest and most compact mattress for someone who sleeps cold is the Thermarest Neoair AllSeason at 540 grams. It packs very small.
As for sleeping bags I think the choice is in ascending order of quality and price: Alpkit Skyehigh, Alpkit Pidedream and PHD. Each with the down weight that matches the temperature range that you need. Normally PHD bags are very expensive, but their sale prices are much better (there is a sale coming up soon). They are also pretty narrow, so beware if you are larger.
This is all for solo use. For two people I think topbags for two are the way to go.
Willem


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## Hicky (14 Feb 2012)

Sara, post which snugpack bag you have at home!!

I've got two Snugpack harrier tens one for me and one for the wife, mine is used extensively(I'm in the TA) in all sorts of crappy conditions and for 7 years has done me proud and is undamaged.
I've often slept in it with boots on and havent damaged it once.....excellent kit.
Also got a snugpack pertex pile smock....very abused(I love the thing!)

I'd buy another harrier ten in a shot and some aldi/lidl(other makes are available) merino or fleece thermals for sleeping in.
However if you spot a decent bag in a sale then go for that!

I'd ignore the ratings to a degree to be honest as they're a load of tosh and things like this are *very dependant* on the person and thier physical state at the time.


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## scotty110788 (14 Feb 2012)

Hicky said:


> I'd ignore the ratings to a degree to be honest as they're a load of tosh and things like this are *very dependant* on the person and thier physical state at the time.


 
+1


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## Brains (15 Feb 2012)

andy_spacey said:


> Ok. sleeping bags, buy this or buy that.
> I spent over 6 months looking reading , looking again and reading more and i mean every day.
> I had to save like hell and only had once chance of buying a bag for my tour.
> 
> ...


 
I spend a number of weeks camping every year, I have 6 sleeping bags to choose from.
Over the last two years I have alternated between the RAB Quantum 600 down bag (bigger/heavier) but OK in the snow of the Peak District last week.
Or the Cumulus Quantum (smaller/lighter) was fine high in the Alps last summer


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## jjb (15 Feb 2012)

One interesting tip I read the other day - apologies if it was on this thread! - is that you can maximise the warmth of the bag by keeping it as uncompressed as possible during the day. If you have a pannier half empty for whatever reason, let the bag fill the space, maintaining its loft.


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## willem (16 Feb 2012)

For a down bag I would avoid compression bags, but otherwise a decent sleeping bag should loft pretty soon after arrival. Anyway, you do not want to use more panniers than you need or panniers that are unnecessarily large. Of themselves most of them are so horribly heavy.
Willem


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## rich p (16 Feb 2012)

willem said:


> For a down bag I would avoid compression bags, but otherwise a decent sleeping bag should loft pretty soon after arrival. Anyway, you do not want to use more panniers than you need or panniers that are unnecessarily large. Of themselves most of them are so horribly heavy.
> Willem


 Is weight an issue when touring then?


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## Butterfly (16 Feb 2012)

I am really nesh. I also camp in January. I use an Exped downmat and a Rab summit 900 (I think) sleeping bag. I recommend watching ebay for bags that have been used for one mountain expedition. What most men think is a winter bag, I would use indoors in summer - my summer bag is a 4 season rab (quantum 600) and I would rather like an 1100 for the recent temperatures - it saves carrying blankets. When I was single I used to carry both 600 and 900 and use one inside the other.


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## Brains (16 Feb 2012)

jjb said:


> One interesting tip I read the other day - apologies if it was on this thread! - is that you can maximise the warmth of the bag by keeping it as uncompressed as possible during the day. If you have a pannier half empty for whatever reason, let the bag fill the space, maintaining its loft.


 
Sleeping bags of all types should be kept out of compression sacks except during transit.
I always unpack my Sleeping bag as soon as possible, and if say doing a mixed B&B/Camping trip will unpack the sleeping bag at the end of every day even in the B&B.
I often do not take the compression sack on a trip, just 'compress' the sleepingbag at the bottom of the pannier/rucksack and pile all the other stuff on top

A sleeping bag left in a compression sack for too long ( a month or two ?) will loose it's loft, hence always check the shop storage when you buy a new one.
You need a shop that has the space to store them unpacked, or has a high turnover.


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## willem (16 Feb 2012)

Yes I think panniers are horribly heavy compared to other gear. Ortlieb Classic front and rear panniers plus a front rack are a total of some 4 kg, or some 15-20% of your luggage weight. Compare that to your tent. It is therefore that I try to keep my luggage volume down to where I only need rear panniers. With an expensive compact sleep system like a 200 pound (in the sale) PHD Minimus 300 and a compact mattres like the Neoair All Season you do not need the heavy and expensive front panniers plus rack (2-2.5 kg at some 125 pounds). At just over 1 kg the sleep system in itself is at least another kilogram lighter than many other cheaper sleep systems. So for roughly the same budget as a more traditional outfit you loose 3 kg, which is a difference that you will notice. If the budget is tighter, an Alpit Pidedream 400 and an Exped Synmat Basic will still do the same trick.
Willem


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## jay clock (16 Feb 2012)

Agreed re storing the down bags. My PHD ones come with a compression bag for travel and a large mesh bag for storage


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## psmiffy (18 Feb 2012)

Personally I would not pay another £100 to lose less weight than i can achieve by drinking the contents of one of my water bottles (as i by default tour with 4 panniers - space is not too much of a problem -although i have considered adding a trailer) - i have a relatively cheap north face down bag - my priorities with a sleeping bag are

is it going to be warm enough or too warm for that matter (one shortish july tour in france where i knew it was going to be warm i just took a £5 bag i bought in Tescos)
has it got a good quality zip of sufficient length that when it is warmer i can have good ventilation
is it big enough that i can sleep in it comfortably - ie get all of me in when it cold
is it made of a relatively durable material that feels nice to sleep in and will withstand being packed at least a 100 times and a few trips through a washing machine


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## Pikey (18 Feb 2012)

I've got an ex military bivvy bag, pretty light and folds down small. Put any sleeping bag in it (think i use some crappy aldi one) and you are toasty for the night. Might be a bit overkill inside a tent, and it isn't as pretty as the outdoor emporium stock, but for 12 quid you can't go wrong.


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## andrew_s (18 Feb 2012)

willem said:


> If the budget is tighter, an Alpit Pidedream 400 and an Exped Synmat Basic will still do the same trick.


Pipedream 400 currently in stock. If you want one, act soon. I would expect them to have run out within a month.


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## seashaker (19 Feb 2012)

I have the http://www.gelert.com/products/x-treme_lite_1200_sleeping_bag 3 season 1.5kg, rolls up pretty small and is around £50 so a lot cheaper than down.


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## jay clock (19 Feb 2012)

> I have the http://www.gelert.com/products/x-treme_lite_1200_sleeping_bag 3 season 1.5kg, rolls up pretty small and is around £50 so a lot cheaper than down.


I can appreciate that not everyone has tons of money, not everyone wants to whittle the weigh down to 450g like me, but this "1.5kg" bag will almost certainly turn out a) to weigh more (about 1600g at a guess) and b) the weight will not include the compression bag which will be 100g+. So it is a very very heavy bag, and "rolls up pretty small" is not borne out my the dimensions shown.

I say all this not to criticise your choice, but in case newbies reading this do not head the advice of the many experienced tourers who know that a few hundred grams here and there soon add up to a lot of weight, extra panniers, and ultimately a much less happy tour.....


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## seashaker (19 Feb 2012)

jay clock said:


> I can appreciate that not everyone has tons of money, not everyone wants to whittle the weigh down to 450g like me, but this "1.5kg" bag will almost certainly turn out a) to weigh more (about 1600g at a guess) and b) the weight will not include the compression bag which will be 100g+. So it is a very very heavy bag, and "rolls up pretty small" is not borne out my the dimensions shown.
> 
> I say all this not to criticise your choice, but in case newbies reading this do not head the advice of the many experienced tourers who know that a few hundred grams here and there soon add up to a lot of weight, extra panniers, and ultimately a much less happy tour.....



The Op did ask for mid budget, and imo £50 would be low mid budget, and so to give more details weighs in at 1516g stuff sack included, size wise just measured in at 32cm long x 22cm wide.

I will stick to this as being a decent mid range 3 season sleeping bag. I do appreciate every gram counts but on a mid budget you could do a lot worse.


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## P.H (19 Feb 2012)

jay clock said:


> the advice of the many experienced tourers who know that a few hundred grams here and there soon add up to a lot of weight, extra panniers, and ultimately a much less happy tour.....


 
No, sorry but no.
You can't possibly know what makes others happy, how can you? Congratulations on finding what works for you, and I'm glad to see you share it. But the idea that because it works for you it must for everyone else is nothing short of absurd. My parents toured with woolen blankets, canvas ridge tent, brass primus and the saucepan and frypan from the kitchen, they were still talking about it forty years later, not an unhappy experience. My happiest tour involved carrying the gear for two, we just adjusted the mileages to suite. Have a look at some of the loads being carried on the loaded touring bikes website, are they all so much less happy?
The only thing that has ever hampered the enjoyment of touring for me has been not getting a good nights sleep. My sleeping kit weighs more than my tent and I'm happy to carry it.

EDIT - To illustrate my point, just go have a look at the photos on the round the world bike race thread. Some riders with four panniers, some with two, some with frame bags, others with bits just bungeed on... all of these riders will have thought long and hard about what to carry, and come to different conclusions.


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## jay clock (20 Feb 2012)

fair enough.


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## willem (20 Feb 2012)

It all depends on what you want to do. You really do not need more than a cheap synthetic bag if you only tour in the Mediterranean in summer. Equally, only a very serious down bag will do for a cross continental trek through Mongolia or in the Andes. So the extremes are easy. But what if you camp in the UK in early Spring and late Autumn, or in Europe at higher elevations? For that I would argue that a bag with an honest temperature rating to a few degrees freezing is about right, plus a couple of degrees margin if you are a cold sleeper. Cheap bags quite simply do not go that low, unless they are enormous. Now you may argue that a large size and heavy weight do not matter, but they come at a price because pannier space does not come free. If the cheap large sleeping bag means that you need an otherwise unnecessary set of front panniers you will have spent more than the cost of a better sleeping bag. Moreover, down bags last much longer than even good quality synthetic bags, and that is a sound economic argument in itself.
For me mid budget for this temperature is the range Alpkit Skyhigh at the lower end to PHD sale prices at the upper end. The 200 pounds that was indicated as a budget should buy a Minimus 300 or 500 (almost) in the upcoming sale, I should think. If you think that is too much, go for an Alpkit Pipedream (but watch the volume). 
Willem


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## MacB (20 Feb 2012)

Wow, it might be cheaper to hire your own Sherpa.


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## willem (20 Feb 2012)

The Polish brand Cumulus are another highly respected and sharply priced possibility: http://www.sleepingbags-cumulus.com/down-sleeping-bags.html You order directly from Poland.
Willem


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## ben80south (26 Feb 2012)

P.H said:


> You can't possibly know what makes others happy, how can you?
> 
> The only thing that has ever hampered the enjoyment of touring for me has been not getting a good nights sleep. My sleeping kit weighs more than my tent and I'm happy to carry it.


 
Quite agree. Some of the worst nights on my cross the USA trip were when my sleeping pad had a leak near the valve that couldn't be fixed, and I was days away from somewhere I could buy a new one. Every night camped out was waking up and turning over every hour. Then I'd have to bike for eight hours. Not fun.

I read up on the ultralight camping websites to find a replacement pad. I ended up with a Big Agnes insulated air core pad. It is 2.5" thick and is 6' long weighing about 1 lb. My previous pad was 1 lb and only 3/4 length (40" long) and 1" thick. The thicker, longer pad made a big difference in sleeping well besides just staying inflated all night.

In choosing a down bag, fill weight is important. If you buy a 600 or 500 fill weight bag, you might as well buy a synthetic because it will weigh pretty much the same amount for less money, and both bags will compress about the same. I have a Sierra Designs Spark 800 fill weight ultralight sleeping bag rated to 15 F. It weighs 2 lbs and compresses into a ball about 6" in diameter. The ultralight basically just means it is a half zipper. The half zipper is annoying when it is a bit too warm for the bag because you can't really unzip the bag -- you are either in the bag, or you are out. I also usually carry a silk liner as it is light, small and adds about 5-10 deg if I need it, or I can use it outside the bag when it is warm.

The size of a sleeping bag is also very important. If it is too large, you won't be able to heat up the space inside and will be cold. I bought a woman's sleeping bag because I am 5'5" tall, and men's bags are all 6' meaning not only would it be cold, but I'd be carrying around extra weight I don't need. Women's bags have extra room in the hips which is nice for turning over inside the bag.

I also bought a Big Agnes Fly Creek UL 2 on recommendation from another cyclist I met. I had been carrying a fly-only one man ultralight tent that came in at just under two pounds, but didn't provide much protection from rain or insects. This tent weighed only slightly more but had twice the room and provided good protection from the rain. It was expensive but definitely worth it, and will last me for many years to come.


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