Most aggressive/bizarre incident I've experienced.

[d87francis]

First off, this has almost persuaded me to purchase a helmet camera for the hilarity of re-watching the incident, however, it was such a short bike ride I doubt I would have bothered to use it if I did own one. I apologise for the length of this post but wanted to get it all in here.

So lets start at the beginning, I have been trying to source a bike for my girlfriend and had succeeded in spotting a really charming red dutch style vintage Raliegh Cameo for only £60 on our local gumtree esk site dailyinfo.com. I'd arranged to meet the guy selling it at 7pm today and was on my way to meet him, running on time but with little extra to spare.

I was cycling reasonably quickly (around 20mph) when a car decided to overtake me and then immediately cut in and park half on the pavement in front of me. Now this manoeuvre has happened to me often as a cyclist, but this time it was so close it nearly put me over my handlebars whilst trying to stop. As I re-composed myself, checked over my shoulder and began to cycle past him I realised his window was open; so slowed to say in a demeaning tone "what are you doing?" (I don't know why but it's always a struggle for the right words in moments like that). I could see the driver was irate at my questioning of his driving skills so I then, and I now regret as I will have to tell the police, gave him the finger as I rode off. This prompted the driver to get out of his car in a fury and start shouting at me!

This is where I probably should have carried on cycling but having five minutes to spare I decided to pull over to ask him, completely calmy (in fact I'm proud that throughout the ordeal I never lost my composure) what his problem was. Before he said anything he started running at me and raised his fist to try and punch me! It was a close call as I was rolling slowly towards him, still in a very high gear, completely not expecting this; but thankfully made it clear of him. I put a bit more distance between us and changed into a low gear should he try it again and pulled my phone out.

I told him I would have to report him to the police, but then immediately remembered I was supposed to be meeting someone in ten minutes to buy a bike at a price I didn't want to miss out on. So I started to unlock my phone to get the camera open, thinking I would report him as soon as I'd bought the bike, when he started to make another run at me with his fist raised. Now when I say run, I really mean waddle with pace - as he was on the tubby side (something I'm guilty of myself), but now that I was in a low gear I cycled away with ease, stopping 10 metres or so away by which point he was out of breath. I reaffirmed that I would be reporting him to the police to which he asked me "why?".

I told him that besides his dangerous driving he had just tried to assault me. This is where the conversation became bizarre as he continually shifted from trying to plead with me not to call the police saying "I'm not a fighter (ha ha, liar too I suppose), I'm a landlord visiting a property and it could affect my job" to threatening me by saying "I'll get my bodyguards on you". I asked him if he didn't want the police involved then why did he try to hit me and he said "because you put your finger up at me". I responded that I had raised my finger as I was unimpressed with his driving which put me in danger, and asked why he pulled such a manoeuvre? To which his exact reply was "because you were all over the place". He started walking over to me saying he wanted a chat, to which I told him that he could talk from a distance as I didn't trust him. This instruction, too complicated for his little mind, forced me to raise my voice for the only time - to instruct him to "STAY BACK!" By that point I had had enough of his aggressive stupidity and I told him that I was in a rush so would report him later rather than call the police now.

I had now engaged camera mode on my phone and set about a game of British Bulldog with him, as we were now some distance from his car and I had to pass him to reach it. He began one of his stampedes towards me - which were the work of a true imbecile. He would start by casually walking towards me, as if he posed no threat and then would cunningly fall into an earth shattering jog/waddle with raised fist, as if to catch me unaware, only started about 8 metres too early to catch me off guard. This third attempt was yet again cut short when he either ran out of breath or the moth - candle connection in his brain failed and he decided to lob his keys at me instead. The keys missed and ended up in the bushes of the school opposite, providing me ample time to stop and get a couple of photos of his number plate whilst he fished them out.

I was then on for a final game of British Bulldog as I had to pass him again to get to where I was going, this time much more heart pounding as he was stood right in the middle of the road trying to catch me. I made a wide pass and then rode as fast as I could away from him to go and meet the guy selling the bike.

To my dismay the guy with the bike was 20 minutes late meaning I could probably quite easily called 999 there and then and then still have met him or let him know I had a hold up. Also if I hadn't have had my phone in one hand I could have probably picked up his keys after he threw them at me and just cycled off. This would likely have been far more of a punishment than I have confidence in the police handing out to him. Anyway they are coming round tomorrow to take a statement, and the lady on the non-emergency number I called 30 minutes after the incident reckoned he would be charged with a public order offence.

The irate driver's unwillingness to have the police involved and also his knowledge of that because his punches hadn't hit me, there is no point in calling the police makes me think he has had prior experience with the sharp end of the law. Plus looking into Public Order Offences there is no dinstinction between threatening behaviour and insulting behaviour, so in some perverted carriage of justice I presume that my use of the digitus impudicus will cancel out his multiple attempts to batter me. Oh how I lose faith in the justice system daily, and am sure certain people behave in said ways because of their faith in the system not to do anything!

 

[YahudaMoon]

gave him the finger as I rode off,I decided to pull over to ask him, completely calmy (in fact I'm proud that throughout the ordeal I never lost my composure) what his problem was

Maybe that you wanted to stick your finger up his arse / him your arse or both ?

This is where I probably should have carried on cycling

Yep. classic mistake. Ive never done this

Also if I hadn't have had my phone in one hand I could have probably picked up his keys after he threw them at me and just cycled off. This would likely have been far more of a punishment than I have confidence in the police handing out to him.

Wow. Fantastic. Had to read it again lol

Sounds like you was goading him at points though of what don't sound good, along with the thought of taking the keys :-D

Who ever he is he sounds a right tool lol

 

[Andrew_Culture]

The world is full of crazy people doing nutty things isn't it!

Yesterday morning I was on a very straight bit of 40mph limit road and checking over my shoulder I noted that the car behind was at least 200 metres away so I indicated to move into primary so that I could turn right at the roundabout 100 metres ahead.

When I was almost fully in primary said 'follower' then appeared to put his foot down to try and kill me, although thankfully he did hit the brakes somewhere in the region of my back bumper. I spotted him, chucked up a vee sign and moved aside to let him through.

Needless to say the driver went nuts, and I instantly regretted my reaction. By the time we reached the roundabout I had slowed right down and had already decided to use the 'sorry, I thought you were my mate Steve defence', because frankly life is too short!

But jebus, being charged at on foot is insanity!

 

[gambatte]

Now when I say run, I really mean waddle with pace - as he was on the tubby side
He would start by casually walking towards me, as if he posed no threat and then would cunningly fall into an earth shattering jog/waddle with raised fist, as if to catch me unaware, only started about 8 metres too early to catch me off guard. This third attempt was yet again cut short when he either ran out of breath

 

[400bhp]

Really easy to say sat here but having a go at him AND raising the finger isn't the way to do it mate.

And what were you trying to do with your camera? Just ride off next time (unless you do want a fight of course).

 

[400bhp]

Seriously lads - han

The world is full of crazy people doing nutty things isn't it!

Yesterday morning I was on a very straight bit of 40mph limit road and checking over my shoulder I noted that the car behind was at least 200 metres away so I indicated to move into primary so that I could turn right at the roundabout 100 metres ahead.

When I was almost fully in primary said 'follower' then appeared to put his foot down to try and kill me, although thankfully he did hit the brakes somewhere in the region of my back bumper. I spotted him, chucked up a vee sign and moved aside to let him through.

Needless to say the driver went nuts, and I instantly regretted my reaction. By the time we reached the roundabout I had slowed right down and had already decided to use the 'sorry, I thought you were my mate Steve defence', because frankly life is too short!

But jebus, being charged at on foot is insanity!

Seriously lads, this isn't a good idea.

I've done it many times in the past-I'm trying really hard these days to stop doing it. I don't recall a positive outcome from doing it, apart from personally feeling better for a second or so.

 

[CopperCyclist]

Plus looking into Public Order Offences there is no dinstinction between threatening behaviour and insulting behaviour, so in some perverted carriage of justice I presume that my use of the digitus impudicus will cancel out his multiple attempts to batter me. Oh how I lose faith in the justice system daily, and am sure certain people behave in said ways because of their faith in the system not to do anything!

Technically there is a distinction. Section 4a would be for the insults, and Section 4 specifies making someone fear violence. Your middle finger is 4a, his actions are Section 4. However, as with everything CPS (NOT the police, who have to record the offence as what it actually is") tend to downgrade and charge with the easier to prove Section 5 for 'an easy win'.

And you are right that you may end up in the situation of six of one, half a dozen of the other. This is not to say that the situation is equal - it wasn't - but it's to do with the fact that police are there as independent evidence gatherers. There is very little doubt that it will be a tit for tat scenario, with 'if he makes a complaint about me, I'll make one about him', in which case we would be reluctant to prosecute both of you.

You need to think about why you gave the middle finger and try to address that. Try to realise that in this case, that was the problem rather than the justice system! 'Because I was angry at his driving' is understandable, but not acceptable - it would be the same argument as if he said 'I ran at him to scare him because he gave me the middle finger'.

Anyway, go ahead and report the incident because he needs to be spoken to regardless IMO, but be prepared that you may be correct in your assumption that your application of the middle finger has not helped!

 

[Andrew_Culture]

Seriously lads - han


Seriously lads, this isn't a good idea.

I've done it many times in the past-I'm trying really hard these days to stop doing it. I don't recall a positive outcome from doing it, apart from personally feeling better for a second or so.

Probably the first time I've ever done it, and I regretted it immediately, which was why I was focussing on a nice way of dissapating the situation should a confrontation arise.

Lesson learned I reckon!

 

[d87francis]

Thanks CopperCyclist, I really regret having given him the middle finger and you're right that my concern should really be with the CPS and the legislation rather than the police.

You need to think about why you gave the middle finger and try to address that. Try to realise that in this case, that was the problem rather than the justice system! 'Because I was angry at his driving' is understandable, but not acceptable - it would be the same argument as if he said 'I ran at him to scare him because he gave me the middle finger'.

I understand that it would be easier to prosecute him under section 5, but do sections 4 and 5, and 4a carry the same weight in law? It just seems wrong to me that they would - as his reaction was not at all proportionate and surely it's possible to find insult at nearly anything?

Would the fact he used his keys as a weapon by throwing them at me make it a different offence?

 

[YahudaMoon]

Thanks CopperCyclist, I really regret having given him the middle finger and you're right that my concern should really be with the CPS and the legislation rather than the police.

I understand that it would be easier to prosecute him under section 5, but do sections 4 and 5, and 4a carry the same weight in law? It just seems wrong to me that they would - as his reaction was not at all proportionate and surely it's possible to find insult at nearly anything?

Would the fact he used his keys as a weapon by throwing them at me make it a different offence?

Basically your actions put you and the key thrower under a prosecution for a 'Affray'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affray

 

[Cubist]

They do indeed, by the strictest definition. OP, you were the first to commit a public order act offence. What did you expect to happen? In your tale the driver tells you that he is angry because of the finger. Moral of the story is, in many people's world, use of obscene gestures is an invitation to a bit of ballroom.

 

[Cubist]

Thanks CopperCyclist, I really regret having given him the middle finger and you're right that my concern should really be with the CPS and the legislation rather than the police.

I understand that it would be easier to prosecute him under section 5, but do sections 4 and 5, and 4a carry the same weight in law? It just seems wrong to me that they would - as his reaction was not at all proportionate and surely it's possible to find insult at nearly anything?

Would the fact he used his keys as a weapon by throwing them at me make it a different offence?

Completely irrelevant. You started it. You reap as you sow. Be pleased you werent injured.

 

[swansonj]

I've gone through life trying to follow a principle of non-escalation/turning the other cheek/ignoring and getting on with life. Most of the time I quite happily just congratulate myself on having anticipated a motorist's stupid action in time to avoid harm, and carry on with my cycle. But I do sometimes feel that it would be good to draw the motorist's attention to what they have just done. It might not make any difference but it might, sometimes, just make them a bit less likely to do it another time. So, question: how can you alert a motorist, who may well still be moving, to the stupidity of what they have just done, without seeming aggressive yourself and escalating the situation?

 

[Cubist]

I've gone through life trying to follow a principle of non-escalation/turning the other cheek/ignoring and getting on with life. Most of the time I quite happily just congratulate myself on having anticipated a motorist's stupid action in time to avoid harm, and carry on with my cycle. But I do sometimes feel that it would be good to draw the motorist's attention to what they have just done. It might not make any difference but it might, sometimes, just make them a bit less likely to do it another time. So, question: how can you alert a motorist, who may well still be moving, to the stupidity of what they have just done, without seeming aggressive yourself and escalating the situation?

Pass. But if you read many of the " his driving was so bad I thought I ought to stop and give him a piece of my mind" only one out of the last four years or so has ended with the driver agreeing with the cyclist. You can't educate pork, so move on.

But in this scenario the driver was parked at the side of the road and had his window open. It is just about feasible that a polite approach may have worked.

 

[CopperCyclist]

I've gone through life trying to follow a principle of non-escalation/turning the other cheek/ignoring and getting on with life. Most of the time I quite happily just congratulate myself on having anticipated a motorist's stupid action in time to avoid harm, and carry on with my cycle. But I do sometimes feel that it would be good to draw the motorist's attention to what they have just done. It might not make any difference but it might, sometimes, just make them a bit less likely to do it another time. So, question: how can you alert a motorist, who may well still be moving, to the stupidity of what they have just done, without seeming aggressive yourself and escalating the situation?

I make eye contact (if possible) and simply shake my head disapprovingly. No way it can be taken as rude, as it gets the point across. A motorist that genuinely wants to know what they did wrong may stop and ask (unlikely), an idiot will likely just speed off swearing to themselves (possible), and most will simply ignore it, however it'll have just as much positive impact as the finger, if positive action is possible!

Francis - yes, there is a difference between the public order Sections, with 5 being the least and 1 (riot) the highest. So yes, technically his is the highest offence. However, in this case it's so minimal between the start and the escalation that the view would be as per Cubists post above.

Had he exited the car and wrapped a tyre iron around your head causing a fractured skull it would obviously be a different matter as his retaliation to your infraction would clearly be grossly disproportionate, but in the big picture here it would be a case of 'you gave him the finger and he shouted at you'.